It wouldn't make any difference. TDC is when the rod to the piston is straight and both valves are closed completely, e.g., just before the compression or just after the exhaust stroke. There is no stroke at that point, and there isn't one, because your engine is off. The rod to the piston has to be straight, the piston has to be at its highest point, and both valves have to be closed.
@@roswellgrey9771 Yes, but all timing measurements are based on Piston #1 being in that condition, which only occurs on the compression stroke once per cycle.
To find the compression stroke, place your finger over the hole until you feel air come out. I would prefer to do this by having someone using a flywheel tool that you use to to install the torque converter bolts IF YOU HAVE AN AUTOMATIC trans. I believe the flywheel tool can be used on the pressure plate also as it to has teeth for the starter to engage. AND, after you arrive at the compression stroke and air is seeping out around your finger, either use a straw to show when you are near TDC or use the tool for more accuracy! You can turn an engine either direction to get more accurately on spot with the piston gauge. If using a dowel or straw and you feel you can get close enough, go to the timing marks and take it from there. But you may be @ TDC or BTDC. I would say you are close enough if you line the two marks up. Distributors usually give you play room of at least a couple inches either way of turn radius depending you vacuum module hose or wiring length.. This was just a video to sell a tool we didn't get to see because it was also not explained how to remove the valve cover to watch the furthest forward rocker arm to it's peak rise to show DTC. Without this subject of finding TDC being accurate, there's going to be loads of problems! There are so many ways to get this right regardless of engine if you know which piston is #1, that there's no room for getting it wrong if you follow simple directions. Yes, the tool is just a fancy item for finding TDC, but it is probably the best for accuracy. It can't lie. I will see if I can find a video with one in action!
I have a few comments: First, you can't use a bolt in a spark plug hole. 14mm bolts are either 2mm coarse thread pitch or 1.5mm fine pitch. Spark plugs are threaded 1.25mm pitch, which is even finer than a bolt. When you are turning over to find compression TDC, feel for air being pushed out of the spark plug hole as you turn the crank. Exhaust TDC will push the air out the tailpipe and not out the spark plug hole. Lastly, some people have suggested this might not work if your pistons have deep valve reliefs, or the spark plug comes at a shallow angle to the piston face - but I can't think why that would be? If the piston contacts the stop then it should work as demonstrated, I would think.
haven't worked on motors for decades. my old school way was to hold your finger in the spark plug hole and turn the crank til air blew out around your finger, which of coarse told you that you were on the compression stroke. then stick a wood dowel in the plug hole and turn crank while watching the dowel and bring the piston to the top.
@@packingten That is the best and most simple way to do it. If you are by yourself they make a tool the screws into # 1 that has a whistle built into it and makes an audible sound.
If this is your first time using this tool like it was mine think about removing all other spark plugs and remove rockers from #1 piston. Otherwise you might not "feel" the piston stop hitting the piston. This also prevents valves from hitting the stop tool if you accidentally go beyond the compression stroke. I bent the threaded rod with the piston then gouged the intake and exhaust valve in the top side of the rod.
I know this is a lot of basic info but i really am surprised that you guys couldn't zoom in or just get you interacting with the stop at a different angle. Like all we get to do is sit here and watch you tell us what you're doing because we cant see it from this angle. Just some food for thought in your future videos. Thanks for the info though. It was great and I didn't know that tool existed before today (hence my reactions). Thanks again.
Hi, i have followed your video to the letter implementing it on my sbc, i had to re do it four times and not getting proper letting for the valves. Till my brother told me, this is not TDC of #1; you cant wait for the "intake to rise and fall, then the exhaust to start to move" The compression TDC is when intake is fully closed, exhaust is aslo fully closed and the piston is fully compressed. In that stage piston #6 would be in a dancing position where "intake to rise and fall, then the exhaust to start to move" I wont say the video is worng; i would just say its misleading; CNC Performance had the same point said here. I saw it later ofcourse. I suggest you replace the video. Thanks
Hey every Big dog out their wasn't born with the no how.. you gotta learn it somewhere. SUMMIT some people really appreciate your videos so keep them coming on all levels..
Summit Racing I have a Chevy 350 smallblock engine, and wonder how to reset my timing when im 180 degrees off. I was told too pull off my distributor cap, set it aside and remove my distributor, rotate the engine clockwise to reset the timing and re lower my disrtibutor. Would that be correct? and i also wonder how to find how much compression my engine carries.
Anthony Thoman, An easier method would be to simply pick the distributor up and turn the rotor 180 degrees and set it back down in the motor and reset your ignition timing. Cylinder pressure can be measure by using a compression tester. Link provided… www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900009/overview/
Yeah but is it on the compression stroke or the intake stroke I don’t use a tool I put my finger Over the plug hole when u fell air pushing out your on compression stroke
For some reason the dudes comment might be deleted but he was super correct. The gentleman in the video moves his pointer to the middle after getting his two points. This is wrong tdc would be found with a third mark in the center of the previous two marks. Move your damper not the needle!
I didnt that before and i was still 180 off back fire sound like a shot gun. Now days i just put my thumb over the spark plug hole spin the engine by hand when i feel air trying to blow my thumb off then i stick a screw driver in the hole bring it up until the screw driver wont move anymore and thats my tdc and sometimes im still 180 off...
It would have been very helpful if you had the camera on No 1 spark plug and fully explained how the tools assembles and fits, you gave a warning of inserting about halfway but it wasn't clear, the close up on the crank shaft was good, should have done same with the tool on the spark plug.
I've just replaced AFM lifers and non afm lifters on right side in a 5.3L LC9. Question is, if I havent turned over the engine at all, couldnt you reinstall rockers, torque to 22 ft/pbs, without findind TDC and going through the whole tedious process of re-lashing all the rocker arms.
Garen Watts , There is no pre-determined length, it will actually vary depending on the cylinder head/spark plug angle being used. It only needs to extend inward far enough to make contact with the top of the piston and stop it using a light pressure. Turning the engine too fast by hand may ultimately scar the piston, so be cautious!
I have a question. Is this method any different than rotating the assembly until you find the point at which both valves are on their seats on the compression stroke?
You're wrong Moe. He put it on the front most cylinder on the driver's side. That's cylinder #1 dude. Cylinder #5 would have been the driver's side, second from last. Y'all fake mechanics need to stay off TH-cam
I don't get why people are saying that this video is wrong or misleading. This WILL find the EXACT TDC of cylinder #1. I don't get why people are blabbering on about cams and rockers. You need to know where #1's TDC is to do ignition timing. You can verify your cam timing simply by removing the timing chain cover.
The crankshaft's TDC can never change. Only the harmonic damper can slip from age. This is why the tool is needed. I don't get why people are saying that aftermarket parts like cams will throw off the timing mark. A cam cannot change the relationship between the crankshaft and piston. They are directly-connected. They must not understand how an engine works.
PCcopeland, Watching the valve opening and closing events will tell you this. In a 4 stroke motor the piston moves downward 2 times, once for intake and once for the power stroke. The piston moves upward 2 times as well, once for compression and once for exhaust. Once the intake valve closes, the piston is coming up on compression. Using your finger as a stop will not be accurate at all if you are degreeing your camshaft. You will struggle to get the piston to stop against your finger at exactly the same point each time.
I'm building a 350 with vortec heads and compcam with his distributor. After assembly motor won't fire just back fires and spits through the carb. is this a timing issue. We have went through the wiring and know it is correct. Could my tdc have been off before distributor install. Thanks
Hi James Davis, We have a few additional questions for you. Can you please give our tech line a call? 1-330-630-0240. We look forward to your call. Thanks for watching!
They led you wrong the engine goes around twice for every 1 on rotor so pull number1 spark plug un plug distributor and bump starter with key on with another person at key or by remote starter switch with your finger over number 1 plug hole when it blows your finger off it will be close you might have to do it twice .then you are on compression stroke. then turn crank with socket to perfect top dead center. and drop in distributor pointing at number one on cap. with the vac on distributor pointing just behind trans dipstick so you can see the distributor bolt makes every thing easier . do you understand there is a compression stroke on top dead center and a exaust stroke on top dead center number 1 cylinder ITS CALLED A FOUR STROKE ENGINE
the crank gos around once and the cam spocket go's around 2 time's to make sure your right on! take the valve cover off and the intake valve once closed then set your cam spocket to the makes on crank spocket and on the cam spocket.12 on crank spocket and 6 on cam spocket. and your done.
Eric Flores that’s incorrect. You can mark TDC on either the compression or exhaust stroke. The only time you’re concerned with TDC on compression is when you’re setting ignition timing
I am a little confused on where to start this process. Does it need to be on the tdc compression stroke to start. I cant seem to repeat this and get the same marks. I went back just to double check my self and I get different results everytime. Why is this? I don't move the piston stop at anytime. My 350 sbc has afr straight plug 68cc heads and cast flat top pistons. Thanks
Hi Cleveland Bellamy, Sounds like the degree wheel is moving on the crank or the piston stop is flexing or bending. Make sure too that the pointer you are using never contacts the degree wheel at any time.
i removed my distributor and lost my markings. this procedure wont find tdc on compression stroke which is what i need. to install my dizzy? this on a vortec 5.7
+jackslater230011, Cylinder #1 on a 4 cylinder motor is the front end of the engine where your accessories like the water pump and alternator are. As for TDC, use the mark on the lower pulley to align to the pointer.
If someone ever changed the rod length, wouldnt a stop tool ,"stop you from top dead center with a a generic tool? some times when you buy a car from someone else, they made mods, or bought it with mods they didnt know of. I have always incerted something into the plug hole, and watched it travel out while turnning the crank, looking for no motion ,indicating the piston is at full throw, is this the most definitive way? besides an indicator gauge?
Hi Jay Scott, Can you give our tech line a call? We believe this will require a conversation. We look forward to your call. 1-330-630-0240. Thank you for watching!
You are correct Jay, good example is a sbc 383 dished pistons an straight plugs, the tool will not work for this setup. I have let summit know of the problem and advised them to make note of it . Tool works great on some engines, problem is summit doesnt know which ones. I will say they offered to buy mine back but I have found it to be usefull for other applications, but not the intended one.
If you’ve got the head off for obvious reasons no this won’t work. If you’re setting valve lash you’re not concerned with crank position you need to be sure that the lifter is on the base circle of the cam lobe
Hi, thanks , great video. I am new to these DIY stuff. Just wanted to know , when the piston stop bolt is screwed in then crankshaft must be in compression stroke? Or it doesn’t matter? There are no marks on anything for TDC. I was looking forward to do it with TDC gauge, which method is more accurate to find TDC? Thanks.
If we already having a timing guide on the timing chain cover, do we need to still rotate the balance run both directions? What exactly is the reason for rotating CCW rather than just CW to TDC?
You made a VERY big mistake...you should not have moved the adjustable pointer to the midpoint of your marks. You should rotate the crank so that the midpoint of your marks lines up with the pointer. Then If the balancer has a 0* groove or painted line that you want to use instead, you can THEN move the adjustable pointer to line up with that groove/line. Also, It would be better to use a marker with a finer point. The width of the marks you made were easily 3-5 degrees wide themselves, not to mention crooked; not very precise. I realize you were working quickly for the sake of the video, and wanted the marks to be large and visible, but it would be better to do things right so as not to confuse people. I'm sorry but this was a very poorly made video. It should be redone.
Hmmm. You know, I think you are right. The original use of the pointer is just a stationary reference point to get two markings. Moving the crank to center the pointer between the two marks establishes TDC on the crank. ...THEN move the adjustable pointer to line up.... Hmmm, that does make sense.
I was very confused till i read your post- thank you. using the piston stop gives you the arc or degree of tdc. it will vary based on where you stop the piston, but it should be consistent. Move the balancer marks to center with your fixed point and the TDC on the balancer should be very close to the pointer. thank you
I agree, but only if your HB has the degree markings on it and is repositionable. Mine is not repositionable but it does have the degree markings engraved on it. I have two corrective choices; 1) I mentally compensate, i.e. 1° BTDC is really TDC, or 2) I cover the HB with a new timing tape. I guess there is another solution. Swap the timing pointer out for an adjustable timing tab with degree markings and use the HB to only designate TDC/0° (ignoring any engraved markings).
Are you seriously that dumb? If the balancer had a groove already there would be no need to use a piston stop to ascertain TDC because the groove would already be in the correct spot. A piston stop is used to locate TDC for a balancer which does not have it marked already, and even a moderate understanding of basic math would show that the method used in this video works fine. Clearly, you don't understand basic math though.
Take plug out of #1 cyl put awadded up piece of paper towel BE CAREFUL not to lose in cyl have someone crank engine stop when pap towel is blown out of cyl. OR put thumb over hole have them crank until it blows thumpb out of cyl,go to timing mark put pointer@ TDC. Set dist. This WORKS!.
+joey lenseigne, Below is a link to our compression ratio calculator that will make things really easy when trying to figure compression ratio. www.summitracing.com/expertadviceandnews/calcsandtools/compression-calculator
Could’ve been a lot better video. You never showed this tool or what it’s actually doing. I have no idea what this tool is doing while you’re rotating the crank
I mean...if you're doing it right, the tool isn't supposed to be doing anything. It sits in the spark plug hole and remains motionless. There's not really a way to film that. If yours is doing literally anything than sitting there, motionless, that's not a problem with the video, that's a problem with your method.
@@the-dullahan I am very familiar with this entire thing. If I am having a hard time understanding what is happening then 90% of others would have no clue. If you can’t show speak about it then. I watch it again - he does not even show the tool and how it engages with piston or what you will see it hidden the entire time. Again could have shown a close up of what the tool looks lije
@@condor5635 dude, you're absolutely not familiar with the process whatsoever. Anyone familiar could verify he's doing it the right way without even seeing the video. Clearly you don't know what you're doing, or you wouldn't be asking to see the tool "doing" things. The only thing the tool "does" is sits still in a spark plug hole. That's it. That's it's entire function. Sorry, but you've told on yourself.
@@the-dullahan whatever done this on two of my cars and don’t have any use for this tool. Glad you know everything Dullahan. I don’t see any other people with your take only one agreeing with mine. Have a nice day
Wrong and wrong. The primary use of a piston stop is to mark TDC on a balancer. MANY balancers don't include a TDC marking from the factory, including a number of Chevrolet engines. Additionally, not only did no one ever say that this is for dropping the distributor in (it's not, it's for marking the balancer) but you're wrong there anyhow, as you absolutely CAN drop the distributor in at TDC. You can drop a dist in at ANY point. You clearly don't know anything about how an engine works.
Hi Steve, Depending on your circumstances, it may be necessary to remove the harmonic balancer and install a crank socket. Or, you could go to the other end of the crank and use a flywheel turning tool.
What did the stop tool do? Does the piston push something out kinda like a tire guage or what?? This video was not much help. Most of have the engine already in the car.
Thank you for your question. The purpose of a piston stop allows you to find an equal point of reference before and after TDC. The centerline of these 2 points is true TDC. The process goes like this -rotate the engine (by hand) clockwise about 1/8th of a turn past TDC, thread the piston stop in, then rotate the engine counterclockwise until the piston contacts the stop and won’t allow it to rotate any further. At this point (atdc) you would place the first mark on your balancer or degree wheel at the 0 on your timing pointer. You would then rotate the engine clockwise away from the piston stop almost a full revolution until the piston comes up and touches the stop again. This second contact point (btdc) is where you would again mark your balancer or degree wheel on the 0. You will now have 2 marks on your balancer or degree wheel and True TDC is located in the very of the 2. Part 2 If you want to re-install your distributor after you find TDC you can place your finger over the #1 spark plug hole and when you feel for compression while rotating the engine the timing mark should be about ¼ turn away from tdc. Or you can remove the valve cover and watch the #1 intake rocker arm open then close at which point the timing mark will be about ½ revolution away from tdc or 0.
I checked and found out: bolts are different thread pitch and won't work. 14mm spark plugs are 1.25mm thread pitch whereas bolts are 2mm coarse or 1.5mm fine.
Come on summit racing.There’s more to finding top dead center On a four cycle engine than just finding when the number 1 Piston on is on the top. You need to know when it’s on its compression stroke before you drop the distributor in otherwise could be 180° off
That's incorrect. When the crankshaft rotates 360 degrees, the piston will still be at TDC regardless of being on compression or exhaust strokes. Camshaft timing does not determine where the piston will be located.
SUMMIT PLEASE READ YOU NEED REMOTE STARTER OR PERSON AND A DISTRIBUTOR WRENCH THE ENGINE GOES AROUND TWICE FOR EVERY ONE TIME THE DISTRIBUTOR DOES . YOU HAVE A COMPRESSION STROKE AND A EXAUST STROKE. YOU THROW YOUR TOY OUT THE NEAREST WINDOW LOL JUST KIDDING yOU NEED THE COMPRESSION STROKE WITH DISTRIBUTOR UNPLUGGED OR OUT . YOU USE A SUMMIT REMOTE STARTER LOL OR ANOTHER PERSON BUMPING KEY OR BY SOCKET THE HARD WAY. YOU PUT YOUR FINGER IN NUMBER ONE SPARK PLUG HOLE AND TURN ENGINE WITH LITTLE BUMPS UNTIL IT BLOWS YOUR FINGER OFF.. WATCHING YOUR POINTER FOR WHEN LINE COMES AROUND TINY BUMPS WHEN IT COMES INTO SIGHT. EVEN TURNING IT WITH WRENCH IT WILL BLOW FINGER. THEN IF YOU ARE WITHIN A HALF INCH EITHER WAY YOU ARE CLOSE ENOUGH . YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO IT TWICE IF WITH THE STARTER THAT IS THE COMPRESSION STROKE TOP DEAD CENTER! THEN YOUR ROTER HAS TO LINE UP WITH NUMBER 1 ON DISTRIBUTOR CAP! iF YOU ARE USING A WRENCH YOU CAN GO PAST TOP DEAD CENTER AND PUT IN YOUR TOY IN SPARK PLUG HOLE AND TURN BACK BY HAND UNTILL IT HITS TOP DEAD CENTER STOP. IF ITS A VACUME DISTRIBUTOR MAKE SURE THE DISTRIBUTOR VAC IS POINTED AT OR A LITTLE BEHIND TRANS DIPSTICK SO YOU CAN SEE DISTRIBUTOR BOLT.[T WILL MAKE EVERY THING EASIER lol YOU ARE WELCOME.
To mark TDC on a balancer it does not matter which stroke the engine is on. TDC is the same spot on the balancer on the compression and exhaust strokes
Are you nuts? Doing this without making sure the valve s don't open can bend a valve! To be safe, you should pull the valve cover, even loosen the valve springs so they stay seated.
... That's incorrect. Your timing chain will move your camshaft while you are rotating your engine. The valves will only move in coordination with crank rotation. There is zero chance of damaging a valve this way
Sounds like you've never done this before. The exhaust valve will open on the exhaust stroke so verifying your on the compression stroke will also make sure your valves are closed. To be 100 % sure, you can back off on the valve springs. 3:20
@@jimsl7851 your engine doesn't just magically change your intake or exhaust valve timing just because you are manually cranking the engine. Sounds like you're the one who has never done this.
Valve timing has nothing to do with the fact you will reach TDC two times on 3 different piston strokes. The valves will move, and if you're running a cam with a significant lift, you run the risk of a valve contacting the piston stop. It's a no-brainer.
Poor explainations, hard to follow. How far doe the stop tool have to go in? all the way tight? Why are you rotating the balancer both way for two marks? I will just use my finger over the # 1 cylinder and take it from there.
The stop tool only need to go in far enough to make contact with the piston. You turn the balancer both ways because there’s a certain amount of crankshaft rotation where the piston is motionless at TDC. By going both ways you can isolate that area of crankshaft rotation then measure the distance between both of your marks and the center is true TDC
Got nothong out of this. Video.shows me a guy talking in front of an engine with no clear picture details. At least show the viewers a clear picture of the piston stop tool. Otherwise the video is sorta useless. Lots of important details left out
Poor video. Never showed the piston stop tool. The audio does not agree with what he is doing. Doesn't explain why he is moving the pointer (to center it between the two marks). It is a harmonic damper, not a dampener. Never mentioned that this is to be done on the compression stroke. Not up to Summit standards.
Hi Frank, we appreciate your feedback. This is an older video. We are working to recreate and improve all of the engine videos we have done in the past. Please stay tuned, the updated version of this video should post soon.
Dude I didn’t see a goddamn thing you just did. This is the worst. Screw something to the side of the engine that is not ever shown and start crankin. Alright.
Not the most informative video to say the least... I mean at least pull the valve covers and explain what's going on with the intake and exhaust valves as you do this. I can't just run to the store and pick up your handy tool, I can't figure out why my timing mark is pointing 180 in the opposite direction when I seem to be at TDC.
LOL WTF do you mean "what's happening" to the tool? If something is "happening" to the tool, you fucked up. It shouldn't have anything "happen" to it whatsoever. Sounds like you've fucked something up and that's on you, not on the video, because the video method was correct.
If people do not know how to find TDC then they should not be touching an engine....... This is really a stupid video, are you having trouble finding topicsa to cover, Just ask us !! This is really Dumb Man. Neal
Hi *****, We try to accommodate viewers at multiple levels of automotive experience. We always seek suggestions from our viewers. Many of our videos were based on viewer requests and we would love to hear any suggestions for future topics that you have. Thank you for watching our Summit Racing Quick Flicks.
I don't think that video is stupid. Just try to remember the time then you got info about how to find TDO for the first time. It is not the worst way to learn such things from Summit videos.
Yeah, at $85.00 an hour for shop rate we can all afford to have the pros find TDC for us! Time we started learning for ourselves because I for one can't afford the pros! And fact is, a lot of the so called pros are not as pro as they pretend to be. I appreciate ANY help I can get from other like-minded people.
You forgot to mention that TDC on #1 piston must be on the Compression Stroke. It would help to tell people how to determine that also.
I was like wait lmaoo. some poor young soul🤦🏼♂️
It wouldn't make any difference. TDC is when the rod to the piston is straight and both valves are closed completely, e.g., just before the compression or just after the exhaust stroke. There is no stroke at that point, and there isn't one, because your engine is off. The rod to the piston has to be straight, the piston has to be at its highest point, and both valves have to be closed.
@@roswellgrey9771 Yes, but all timing measurements are based on Piston #1 being in that condition, which only occurs on the compression stroke once per cycle.
@@rhettgerner839 I mean if your working on a car you should already know that🤦🏽♂️
@@roswellgrey9771 He forgot to remove driver side valve cover to also make sure that both valves are completely closed.
To find the compression stroke, place your finger over the hole until you feel air come out. I would prefer to do this by having someone using a flywheel tool that you use to to install the torque converter bolts IF YOU HAVE AN AUTOMATIC trans. I believe the flywheel tool can be used on the pressure plate also as it to has teeth for the starter to engage. AND, after you arrive at the compression stroke and air is seeping out around your finger, either use a straw to show when you are near TDC or use the tool for more accuracy! You can turn an engine either direction to get more accurately on spot with the piston gauge. If using a dowel or straw and you feel you can get close enough, go to the timing marks and take it from there. But you may be @ TDC or BTDC. I would say you are close enough if you line the two marks up. Distributors usually give you play room of at least a couple inches either way of turn radius depending you vacuum module hose or wiring length.. This was just a video to sell a tool we didn't get to see because it was also not explained how to remove the valve cover to watch the furthest forward rocker arm to it's peak rise to show DTC. Without this subject of finding TDC being accurate, there's going to be loads of problems! There are so many ways to get this right regardless of engine if you know which piston is #1, that there's no room for getting it wrong if you follow simple directions. Yes, the tool is just a fancy item for finding TDC, but it is probably the best for accuracy. It can't lie. I will see if I can find a video with one in action!
I have a few comments:
First, you can't use a bolt in a spark plug hole. 14mm bolts are either 2mm coarse thread pitch or 1.5mm fine pitch. Spark plugs are threaded 1.25mm pitch, which is even finer than a bolt.
When you are turning over to find compression TDC, feel for air being pushed out of the spark plug hole as you turn the crank. Exhaust TDC will push the air out the tailpipe and not out the spark plug hole.
Lastly, some people have suggested this might not work if your pistons have deep valve reliefs, or the spark plug comes at a shallow angle to the piston face - but I can't think why that would be? If the piston contacts the stop then it should work as demonstrated, I would think.
Yes...This video is not the way to do it.
haven't worked on motors for decades. my old school way was to hold your finger in the spark plug hole and turn the crank til air blew out around your finger, which of coarse told you that you were on the compression stroke. then stick a wood dowel in the plug hole and turn crank while watching the dowel and bring the piston to the top.
@living in a desert dowel is a wooden rod. Like a broomstick. I believe that's what is being talked about in this situation
@@colbydavis5338 A dowel is a cylindrical rod used for structural purposes, can be any material.
The dowel will either be dead on OR 180 DEGREES OFF, Put thumb over #1 cyl till it blows off line up tim mark to TDC.
@@packingten That is the best and most simple way to do it. If you are by yourself they make a tool the screws into # 1 that has a whistle built into it and makes an audible sound.
Pretty sure all the Chilton Repair Manuals illustrated the finger in the spark plug hole method.
If this is your first time using this tool like it was mine think about removing all other spark plugs and remove rockers from #1 piston. Otherwise you might not "feel" the piston stop hitting the piston. This also prevents valves from hitting the stop tool if you accidentally go beyond the compression stroke. I bent the threaded rod with the piston then gouged the intake and exhaust valve in the top side of the rod.
Dane Hansen you need to be more careful. I didnt have to do any of that.
100% operator error
I know this is a lot of basic info but i really am surprised that you guys couldn't zoom in or just get you interacting with the stop at a different angle. Like all we get to do is sit here and watch you tell us what you're doing because we cant see it from this angle. Just some food for thought in your future videos. Thanks for the info though. It was great and I didn't know that tool existed before today (hence my reactions). Thanks again.
Hi, i have followed your video to the letter implementing it on my sbc, i had to re do it four times and not getting proper letting for the valves. Till my brother told me, this is not TDC of #1; you cant wait for the "intake to rise and fall, then the exhaust to start to move"
The compression TDC is when intake is fully closed, exhaust is aslo fully closed and the piston is fully compressed. In that stage piston #6 would be in a dancing position where "intake to rise and fall, then the exhaust to start to move"
I wont say the video is worng; i would just say its misleading; CNC Performance had the same point said here. I saw it later ofcourse.
I suggest you replace the video.
Thanks
thats good but you still need to set the cam spocket and set it? for the timing chain.
Hey every Big dog out their wasn't born with the no how.. you gotta learn it somewhere. SUMMIT some people really appreciate your videos so keep them coming on all levels..
Thank you, Robert Higgins! Please let us know if you have any video suggestions.
Summit Racing I have a Chevy 350 smallblock engine, and wonder how to reset my timing when im 180 degrees off. I was told too pull off my distributor cap, set it aside and remove my distributor, rotate the engine clockwise to
reset the timing and re lower my disrtibutor. Would that be correct? and i also wonder how to find how much compression my engine carries.
Anthony Thoman,
An easier method would be to simply pick the distributor up and turn the rotor 180 degrees and set it back down in the motor and reset your ignition timing.
Cylinder pressure can be measure by using a compression tester. Link provided… www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900009/overview/
Yeah but is it on the compression stroke or the intake stroke I don’t use a tool I put my finger Over the plug hole when u fell air pushing out your on compression stroke
For some reason the dudes comment might be deleted but he was super correct. The gentleman in the video moves his pointer to the middle after getting his two points. This is wrong tdc would be found with a third mark in the center of the previous two marks. Move your damper not the needle!
I didnt that before and i was still 180 off back fire sound like a shot gun. Now days i just put my thumb over the spark plug hole spin the engine by hand when i feel air trying to blow my thumb off then i stick a screw driver in the hole bring it up until the screw driver wont move anymore and thats my tdc and sometimes im still 180 off...
Do I need to remove the distributor to do this
It would have been very helpful if you had the camera on No 1 spark plug and fully explained how the tools assembles and fits, you gave a warning of inserting about halfway but it wasn't clear, the close up on the crank shaft was good, should have done same with the tool on the spark plug.
Great show, I just purchased the piston stop tool, I’m doing a complete msd make over on my Chevy v6
Thank you for watching!
@@SummitRacing summit racing has great videos and great products, I’ve been a summit racing customer since 1998
does it matter which direction you go to with the crank?
+skilltpa,
No, you will actually be turning the motor both directions in order to find top dead center.
I've just replaced AFM lifers and non afm lifters on right side in a 5.3L LC9. Question is, if I havent turned over the engine at all, couldnt you reinstall rockers, torque to 22 ft/pbs, without findind TDC and going through the whole tedious process of re-lashing all the rocker arms.
How about doing a video on a 3 cylinder diesel with no TDC marks.
I'm confused to how far your supposed to screw in the all thread part of the piston stop tool?
Garen Watts ,
There is no pre-determined
length, it will actually vary depending on the cylinder head/spark plug angle
being used. It only needs to extend inward far enough to make contact
with the top of the piston and stop it using a light pressure. Turning the
engine too fast by hand may ultimately scar the piston, so be cautious!
@@SummitRacingso how do you tell if it's in too far
how do you know? do you feel it? does it stop when you are turning?
The piston stop tool will prevent the engine from being able to turn over any further once the piston makes contact with the piston stop tool.
@@SummitRacing thanks
I have a question. Is this method any different than rotating the assembly until you find the point at which both valves are on their seats on the compression stroke?
If you install your timing chain without being tdc what is the worry
Hi LuhMaRk,
Valve to piston interference!
If I try and reverse after first finding the top of the stroke, the bolt holding the harmonic dampener begins to back out? Is that normal?
Your bolt isn't on tight enough. Get a torque wrench and tighten it
Either the camera is mirrored or he just put it in #5
I wonder how many people this video has screwed over with that
Uncle Moe Lester don’t you hate when you put it in the wrong hole
This is a smallblock Chevy and on a smallblock Chevy, the #1 cylinder is the front, driver's side, and that's exactly where he put the tool.
@@lsan6833 nome, seeing as he out it on the correct cylinder, you just don't know shit about V8s.
You're wrong Moe. He put it on the front most cylinder on the driver's side. That's cylinder #1 dude. Cylinder #5 would have been the driver's side, second from last. Y'all fake mechanics need to stay off TH-cam
I don't get why people are saying that this video is wrong or misleading. This WILL find the EXACT TDC of cylinder #1. I don't get why people are blabbering on about cams and rockers. You need to know where #1's TDC is to do ignition timing. You can verify your cam timing simply by removing the timing chain cover.
The crankshaft's TDC can never change. Only the harmonic damper can slip from age. This is why the tool is needed. I don't get why people are saying that aftermarket parts like cams will throw off the timing mark. A cam cannot change the relationship between the crankshaft and piston. They are directly-connected. They must not understand how an engine works.
It's still TDC regardless of if it's the compression or exhaust stroke.
If f you don't have a stop tool and are using your finger, how do you know if you are on the compression or exhaust stroke?
PCcopeland,
Watching the valve opening and closing events will tell you this. In a 4 stroke motor the piston moves downward 2 times, once for intake and once for the power stroke. The piston moves upward 2 times as well, once for compression and once for exhaust. Once the intake valve closes, the piston is coming up on compression. Using your finger as a stop will not be accurate at all if you are degreeing your camshaft. You will struggle to get the piston to stop against your finger at exactly the same point each time.
+PCcopeland you'll feel the compression blowing your finger out of the spark plug hole.
Now that is what I call a badass tutorial. I would even pay money to watch more of your Tutorials
Thank you for watching, Daniel X! Please let us know if you have any questions.
+Summit Racing what if have a mark on the balancer
I'm building a 350 with vortec heads and compcam with his distributor. After assembly motor won't fire just back fires and spits through the carb. is this a timing issue. We have went through the wiring and know it is correct. Could my tdc have been off before distributor install. Thanks
Hi James Davis,
We have a few additional questions for you. Can you please give our tech line a call? 1-330-630-0240. We look forward to your call. Thanks for watching!
They led you wrong the engine goes around twice for every 1 on rotor so pull number1 spark plug
un plug distributor and bump starter with key on with another person at key or by remote starter switch
with your finger over number 1 plug hole when it blows your finger off it will be close
you might have to do it twice .then you are on compression stroke.
then turn crank with socket to perfect top dead center.
and drop in distributor pointing at number one on cap.
with the vac on distributor pointing just behind trans dipstick so you can see the distributor bolt
makes every thing easier .
do you understand there is a compression stroke on top dead center and a exaust stroke on top dead center
number 1 cylinder ITS CALLED A FOUR STROKE ENGINE
180 degrees off
What I did I used an extra spark plug and drilled the center out of the plug and a hose with a compreswion guage it worked nice.
Question when Chain is worn? and the Cam point is off.and Pointing at 1200. do you just put the mark back at 6:oo and put new Chain on?
the crank gos around once and the cam spocket go's around 2 time's to make sure your right on! take the valve cover off and the intake valve once closed then set your cam spocket to the makes on crank spocket and on the cam spocket.12 on crank spocket and 6 on cam spocket. and your done.
Are you hitting tdc on intake or exhaust cycle
You’re suppose to check tdc on the compression stroke
Eric Flores that’s incorrect. You can mark TDC on either the compression or exhaust stroke. The only time you’re concerned with TDC on compression is when you’re setting ignition timing
I am a little confused on where to start this process. Does it need to be on the tdc compression stroke to start. I cant seem to repeat this and get the same marks. I went back just to double check my self and I get different results everytime. Why is this? I don't move the piston stop at anytime. My 350 sbc has afr straight plug 68cc heads and cast flat top pistons. Thanks
Hi Cleveland Bellamy,
Sounds like the degree wheel is moving on the crank or the piston stop is flexing or bending. Make sure too that the pointer you are using never contacts the degree wheel at any time.
i removed my distributor and lost my markings. this procedure wont find tdc on compression stroke which is what i need. to install my dizzy? this on a vortec 5.7
very helpful for a rookie like me. Thanks.
how do you know the length of the tool the one who touch the piston like 1/2 inch or something i got a 454 7.4 litters
What happens if your engine isn't TDC say after replacing the cylinder head gasket? And also, how do I find cylinder 1 on a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder?
+jackslater230011,
Cylinder #1 on a 4 cylinder motor is the front end of the engine where your accessories like the water pump and alternator are. As for TDC, use the mark on the lower pulley to align to the pointer.
If someone ever changed the rod length, wouldnt a stop tool ,"stop you from top dead center with a a generic tool? some times when you buy a car from someone else, they made mods, or bought it with mods they didnt know of. I have always incerted something into the plug hole, and watched it travel out while turnning the crank, looking for no motion ,indicating the piston is at full throw, is this the most definitive way? besides an indicator gauge?
Hi Jay Scott,
Can you give our tech line a call? We believe this will require a conversation. We look forward to your call. 1-330-630-0240.
Thank you for watching!
You are correct Jay, good example is a sbc 383 dished pistons an straight plugs, the tool will not work for this setup. I have let summit know of the problem and advised them to make note of it . Tool works great on some engines, problem is summit doesnt know which ones. I will say they offered to buy mine back but I have found it to be usefull for other applications, but not the intended one.
So how is it done for straight plug heads when #1 piston doesn't hit the stop?
Can you use this tool when you replace a head gasket, and setting the valves
If you’ve got the head off for obvious reasons no this won’t work. If you’re setting valve lash you’re not concerned with crank position you need to be sure that the lifter is on the base circle of the cam lobe
Hi, thanks , great video. I am new to these DIY stuff. Just wanted to know , when the piston stop bolt is screwed in then crankshaft must be in compression stroke? Or it doesn’t matter?
There are no marks on anything for TDC. I was looking forward to do it with TDC gauge, which method is more accurate to find TDC? Thanks.
If we already having a timing guide on
the timing chain cover, do we need to still rotate the balance run both directions? What exactly is the reason for rotating CCW rather than just CW to TDC?
You made a VERY big mistake...you should not have moved the adjustable pointer to the midpoint of your marks. You should rotate the crank so that the midpoint of your marks lines up with the pointer. Then If the balancer has a 0* groove or painted line that you want to use instead, you can THEN move the adjustable pointer to line up with that groove/line. Also, It would be better to use a marker with a finer point. The width of the marks you made were easily 3-5 degrees wide themselves, not to mention crooked; not very precise. I realize you were working quickly for the sake of the video, and wanted the marks to be large and visible, but it would be better to do things right so as not to confuse people. I'm sorry but this was a very poorly made video. It should be redone.
Hmmm. You know, I think you are right. The original use of the pointer is just a stationary reference point to get two markings. Moving the crank to center the pointer between the two marks establishes TDC on the crank. ...THEN move the adjustable pointer to line up.... Hmmm, that does make sense.
I was very confused till i read your post- thank you. using the piston stop gives you the arc or degree of tdc. it will vary based on where you stop the piston, but it should be consistent. Move the balancer marks to center with your fixed point and the TDC on the balancer should be very close to the pointer. thank you
I agree, but only if your HB has the degree markings on it and is repositionable. Mine is not repositionable but it does have the degree markings engraved on it. I have two corrective choices; 1) I mentally compensate, i.e. 1° BTDC is really TDC, or 2) I cover the HB with a new timing tape. I guess there is another solution. Swap the timing pointer out for an adjustable timing tab with degree markings and use the HB to only designate TDC/0° (ignoring any engraved markings).
Andrew Dynes
Thanks man..👍🏼
Are you seriously that dumb? If the balancer had a groove already there would be no need to use a piston stop to ascertain TDC because the groove would already be in the correct spot. A piston stop is used to locate TDC for a balancer which does not have it marked already, and even a moderate understanding of basic math would show that the method used in this video works fine. Clearly, you don't understand basic math though.
You could have shown the tool facing the camera to see how it works.
Can this apply to a straight 6?
Hi WILLIStheCAT95,
Yes, this same procedure can be used on your inline 6 motor.
Take plug out of #1 cyl put awadded up piece of paper towel BE CAREFUL not to lose in cyl have someone crank engine stop when pap towel is blown out of cyl. OR put thumb over hole have them crank until it blows thumpb out of cyl,go to timing mark put pointer@ TDC. Set dist. This WORKS!.
how do i find my BDC??, just wondering, im trying to calculate my compression ratio
+joey lenseigne,
Below is a link to our compression ratio calculator that will make things really easy when trying to figure compression ratio. www.summitracing.com/expertadviceandnews/calcsandtools/compression-calculator
MAKE A VIDEO ON HOW TO SET LASH ON A CHEVY LS ENGINE.
Hi Joseph! Stay tuned, this is coming soon!
Yeah what if its at 6oClock 180 out its gonna do the same
Could’ve been a lot better video. You never showed this tool or what it’s actually doing. I have no idea what this tool is doing while you’re rotating the crank
I agree there are other better videos about this subject on TH-cam
I mean...if you're doing it right, the tool isn't supposed to be doing anything. It sits in the spark plug hole and remains motionless. There's not really a way to film that. If yours is doing literally anything than sitting there, motionless, that's not a problem with the video, that's a problem with your method.
@@the-dullahan I am very familiar with this entire thing. If I am having a hard time understanding what is happening then 90% of others would have no clue. If you can’t show speak about it then. I watch it again - he does not even show the tool and how it engages with piston or what you will see it hidden the entire time. Again could have shown a close up of what the tool looks lije
@@condor5635 dude, you're absolutely not familiar with the process whatsoever. Anyone familiar could verify he's doing it the right way without even seeing the video. Clearly you don't know what you're doing, or you wouldn't be asking to see the tool "doing" things. The only thing the tool "does" is sits still in a spark plug hole. That's it. That's it's entire function. Sorry, but you've told on yourself.
@@the-dullahan whatever done this on two of my cars and don’t have any use for this tool. Glad you know everything Dullahan. I don’t see any other people with your take only one agreeing with mine. Have a nice day
It would also help all these videos weren't engine out serviced. Because it's rarely the case
better plan by the guy with the squeaky toy a few clicks back
Piston stop can verify whether your balancer has "shifted". Only reason to use piston stop. You wouldn't drop dist. In at TDC anyway on a Chevy v8.
Wrong and wrong. The primary use of a piston stop is to mark TDC on a balancer. MANY balancers don't include a TDC marking from the factory, including a number of Chevrolet engines. Additionally, not only did no one ever say that this is for dropping the distributor in (it's not, it's for marking the balancer) but you're wrong there anyhow, as you absolutely CAN drop the distributor in at TDC. You can drop a dist in at ANY point. You clearly don't know anything about how an engine works.
I can't turn mine to the left without the bolt coming loose
Hi Steve,
Depending on your circumstances, it may be necessary to remove the harmonic balancer and install a crank socket. Or, you could go to the other end of the crank and use a flywheel turning tool.
What did the stop tool do? Does the piston push something out kinda like a tire guage or what?? This video was not much help. Most of have the engine already in the car.
Thank you for your question. The purpose of a piston stop allows you to find an equal point of reference before and after TDC. The centerline of these 2 points is true TDC. The process goes like this -rotate the engine (by hand) clockwise about 1/8th of a turn past TDC, thread the piston stop in, then rotate the engine counterclockwise until the piston contacts the stop and won’t allow it to rotate any further. At this point (atdc) you would place the first mark on your balancer or degree wheel at the 0 on your timing pointer. You would then rotate the engine clockwise away from the piston stop almost a full revolution until the piston comes up and touches the stop again. This second contact point (btdc) is where you would again mark your balancer or degree wheel on the 0. You will now have 2 marks on your balancer or degree wheel and True TDC is located in the very of the 2.
Part 2
If you want to re-install your distributor after you find TDC you can place your finger over the #1 spark plug hole and when you feel for compression while rotating the engine the timing mark should be about ¼ turn away from tdc. Or you can remove the valve cover and watch the #1 intake rocker arm open then close at which point the timing mark will be about ½ revolution away from tdc or 0.
Procedure works exactly the same when the engine is in a car.
same for LS engines??? o_o
Hi gil loredo,
Yes it is!
Screw driver in the spark plug. You do it right and it'll work.
Consideration should be given to filming all how to videos from the same side that the tool is installed on.
Best way is to pull valve cover and look at number 1 valves--believe me
Why can't I just use a 14mm bolt instead?
I checked and found out: bolts are different thread pitch and won't work. 14mm spark plugs are 1.25mm thread pitch whereas bolts are 2mm coarse or 1.5mm fine.
Awesome!
Distributor could be out 180°
Come on summit racing.There’s more to finding top dead center On a four cycle engine than just finding when the number 1 Piston on is on the top. You need to know when it’s on its compression stroke before you drop the distributor in otherwise could be 180° off
That's incorrect.
When the crankshaft rotates 360 degrees, the piston will still be at TDC regardless of being on compression or exhaust strokes.
Camshaft timing does not determine where the piston will be located.
Thank you
What they don't make screwdrivers anymore
SUMMIT PLEASE READ YOU NEED REMOTE STARTER OR PERSON AND A DISTRIBUTOR WRENCH
THE ENGINE GOES AROUND TWICE FOR EVERY ONE TIME THE DISTRIBUTOR DOES .
YOU HAVE A COMPRESSION STROKE AND A EXAUST STROKE.
YOU THROW YOUR TOY OUT THE NEAREST WINDOW LOL JUST KIDDING
yOU NEED THE COMPRESSION STROKE WITH DISTRIBUTOR UNPLUGGED OR OUT .
YOU USE A SUMMIT REMOTE STARTER LOL OR ANOTHER PERSON BUMPING KEY
OR BY SOCKET THE HARD WAY.
YOU PUT YOUR FINGER IN NUMBER ONE SPARK PLUG HOLE AND TURN ENGINE WITH LITTLE BUMPS UNTIL IT BLOWS YOUR FINGER OFF..
WATCHING YOUR POINTER FOR WHEN LINE COMES AROUND TINY BUMPS WHEN IT COMES INTO SIGHT.
EVEN TURNING IT WITH WRENCH IT WILL BLOW FINGER.
THEN IF YOU ARE WITHIN A HALF INCH EITHER WAY YOU ARE CLOSE ENOUGH .
YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO IT TWICE IF WITH THE STARTER
THAT IS THE COMPRESSION STROKE TOP DEAD CENTER!
THEN YOUR ROTER HAS TO LINE UP WITH NUMBER 1 ON DISTRIBUTOR CAP!
iF YOU ARE USING A WRENCH YOU CAN GO PAST TOP DEAD CENTER AND PUT IN YOUR TOY IN SPARK PLUG HOLE
AND TURN BACK BY HAND UNTILL IT HITS TOP DEAD CENTER STOP.
IF ITS A VACUME DISTRIBUTOR MAKE SURE THE DISTRIBUTOR VAC IS POINTED AT OR A LITTLE BEHIND TRANS
DIPSTICK SO YOU CAN SEE DISTRIBUTOR BOLT.[T WILL MAKE EVERY THING EASIER lol
YOU ARE WELCOME.
SUMMIT PLEASE MAKE A NEW VIDEO YOUL DRIVE EVERY BODY INSANE
THANX
Thank you for watching!
thats not right i do this every week on350s you got to get it on the right storke frist
which stroke is the right stroke to use on a 350 sbc with afr straight plug heads with 68cc chambers?
To mark TDC on a balancer it does not matter which stroke the engine is on. TDC is the same spot on the balancer on the compression and exhaust strokes
This tool will not work on sbc with World Sportsman heads with straight plugs.
Why not? What happens?
Oh ya 4550 views I think somebody is interested.........
Are you nuts? Doing this without making sure the valve s don't open can bend a valve! To be safe, you should pull the valve cover, even loosen the valve springs so they stay seated.
... That's incorrect. Your timing chain will move your camshaft while you are rotating your engine. The valves will only move in coordination with crank rotation.
There is zero chance of damaging a valve this way
Sounds like you've never done this before. The exhaust valve will open on the exhaust stroke so verifying your on the compression stroke will also make sure your valves are closed. To be 100 % sure, you can back off on the valve springs. 3:20
@@jimsl7851 your engine doesn't just magically change your intake or exhaust valve timing just because you are manually cranking the engine. Sounds like you're the one who has never done this.
Valve timing has nothing to do with the fact you will reach TDC two times on 3 different piston strokes. The valves will move, and if you're running a cam with a significant lift, you run the risk of a valve contacting the piston stop. It's a no-brainer.
@@jimsl7851 you do know that the piston stop goes in the spark plug hole right?
What the hell is a "Dampener"? is something getting wet??? Ahh ..damper maybe?
Poor explainations, hard to follow. How far doe the stop tool have to go in? all the way tight? Why are you rotating the balancer both way for two marks? I will just use my finger over the # 1 cylinder and take it from there.
The stop tool only need to go in far enough to make contact with the piston. You turn the balancer both ways because there’s a certain amount of crankshaft rotation where the piston is motionless at TDC. By going both ways you can isolate that area of crankshaft rotation then measure the distance between both of your marks and the center is true TDC
Got nothong out of this. Video.shows me a guy talking in front of an engine with no clear picture details. At least show the viewers a clear picture of the piston stop tool. Otherwise the video is sorta useless. Lots of important details left out
Poor video. Never showed the piston stop tool. The audio does not agree with what he is doing. Doesn't explain why he is moving the pointer (to center it between the two marks). It is a harmonic damper, not a dampener. Never mentioned that this is to be done on the compression stroke. Not up to Summit standards.
Hi Frank, we appreciate your feedback. This is an older video. We are working to recreate and improve all of the engine videos we have done in the past. Please stay tuned, the updated version of this video should post soon.
Dude wth,more confused now than b4
Not sure why you're confused. The video made it pretty clear.
That was Horrible
Go ahead and think that 😄
say what? lol
Dude I didn’t see a goddamn thing you just did. This is the worst. Screw something to the side of the engine that is not ever shown and start crankin. Alright.
Not the most informative video to say the least... I mean at least pull the valve covers and explain what's going on with the intake and exhaust valves as you do this. I can't just run to the store and pick up your handy tool, I can't figure out why my timing mark is pointing 180 in the opposite direction when I seem to be at TDC.
well, you didn't really show us anything. plus if you work for Summit, why are you ordering tools? you're advertising. tools should be free
I mean, he literally showed you the exact procedure, but OK.
Poor video. Can't see what is happening to the piston stop tool, what it is supposed to do, etc.
LOL WTF do you mean "what's happening" to the tool? If something is "happening" to the tool, you fucked up. It shouldn't have anything "happen" to it whatsoever. Sounds like you've fucked something up and that's on you, not on the video, because the video method was correct.
Selling garbage
If people do not know how to find TDC then they should not be touching an engine.......
This is really a stupid video, are you having trouble finding topicsa to cover,
Just ask us !!
This is really Dumb Man.
Neal
Hi *****,
We try to accommodate viewers at multiple levels of automotive experience.
We always seek suggestions from our viewers. Many of our videos were based on viewer requests and we would love to hear any suggestions for future topics that you have. Thank you for watching our Summit Racing Quick Flicks.
I don't think that video is stupid. Just try to remember the time then you got info about how to find TDO for the first time. It is not the worst way to learn such things from Summit videos.
Yeah, at $85.00 an hour for shop rate we can all afford to have the pros find TDC for us! Time we started learning for ourselves because I for one can't afford the pros! And fact is, a lot of the so called pros are not as pro as they pretend to be. I appreciate ANY help I can get from other like-minded people.
To degree cams you need true top dead center not a few degrees off top dead center
@summitracing is it possible to screw the tool in too Far