A 16 year old girl I knew and trained in basketball drowned recently, she was an awesome human being, I found out later she was a Muslim and now I’m wrestling with where she will spend eternity 🥺
@@camerongray4356 The age of accountability is 20 years old under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, unless somewhere the Lord changes His age of accountability. Not one time in the New Covenant writing does a child get immersed into Christ Jesus. Children are without accountable sin in the eyes of the Lord. The great debates of the 19th century of the American Restoration movement, i.e. Alexander Campbell/Owen debate Campbell argued zealously for adult baptism. Now only in recent years, 18 years old is considered an Adult, this was because of the Vietnam war in the mid to late 1960's. And before the 1971 you became an adult at 21 years of age. Leviticus 27:1-8 This is what the Holy Spirit says about those 19 years and below in the Old Covenant: Deuteronomy 1:39 ’Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40’But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.’ See also Numbers 14:29 your corpses will fall in this wilderness, even all your numbered men, according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me. 30 ‘Surely you shall not come into the land in which I swore to settle you, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31‘Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32’But as for you, your corpses will fall in this wilderness. Joshua and Caleb were the only ones who were over 20 years of age who made it to the promised land. In the Torah, The age of 13 years old goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, another age is mentioned: Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8) Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD when you number them so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED SHALL GIVE: HALF A SHEKEL ACCORDING TO THE SHEKEL OF THE SANCTUARY (THE SHEKEL IS TWENTY GERAHS), HALF A SHEKEL AS A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED, FROM TWENTY YEARS OLD AND OVER, SHALL GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “THE RICH SHALL NOT PAY MORE AND THE POOR SHALL NOT PAY LESS THAN THE HALF SHEKEL WHEN YOU GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR YOURSELVES. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.” Question Why do only Israelites 20 years old and upward pay for a ramson/ atonement for sin?
Lynn McIntosh Original Sin Adam and Eve were not perfect, but innocent. They didn't have the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience didn't accuse them. Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Once they knew they were naked, it was then wrong to be so. Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. The knowledge of good and evil, given to us through Adam's sin, has caused all men to have a conscience which now accuses them before God. Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) This conscience, or law is what condemns us, which is sin. 1Jhn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Children do not have this knowledge of good and evil... Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. Although children do bad things, sin doesn't occur in their lives until they gain this knowledge which occurs in their youth..... Jer 3:25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God. Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. Jer 22:21 I spake unto thee in thy prosperity; but thou saidst, I will not hear. This hath been thy manner from thy youth, that thou obeyedst not my voice. Children do not know they are naked, just as Adam and Eve didn't know, before they ate the fruit. Sin comes in progression, not in birth..... Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Let's look at a couple of verses, and then consider Cain..... Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Micah 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings. Now Cain... Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. Observations.... Look what Peter says to the Gentiles…… 1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (See Deut 32:21, Hos 1:10 for Gentile evidence) 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. We went astray from God (from our youth) but have returned through Jesus Christ. The prodigal son is another good example of this. He was dead, but was alive AGAIN…… Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. Note that the elder son made a claim to have always served his father, unlike the younger who went astray to serve himself. His father didn't rebuke him but essentially confirmed his claim by telling him the entire inheritance was his. The bible tells us that we must become like children to enter the kingdom of God….. Matt 18;3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. The , is that children are free from a conscience towards God. (knowledge of good and evil). We have our conscience purged through Christ.... Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 1Jhn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. In Christ there is no law, no conscience of guilt to separate us from God. Just as a child has no knowledge of good and evil and feels no shame towards God, so do we in Christ. God bless
@@evanu6579 parents determine the ages of responsibility, not accountability before God. 20 years old; Exodus 30:13-14, Giving of money Numbers 1:3-45, serving in the military Numbers@-30 (need to read chapters 13 and 14 fully) Punishment for disobedience Numbers 26:3-4 Counted in the census
The only verse we can get an inference from is that Jesus started preaching in the synagogue when he was 12. But this cannot be counted dogmatically. We just trust God that He will always do the right thing because he will and we raise our children in the way that they should go. God gives the increase
as a 14 year old, i do think im still too young to really be hearing or understanding everything. i dont know everything about Christianity, but i know im a child of God and will never stop being religious.
Sister I’m 15, and we don’t know everything but we CAN/WILL know as much as anyone else. It may be a bit harder for us to understand but I believe at this age we’re very accountable. I got saved at 13, I believe, and before I was truly saved (I was “a Christian” but still lived like hell), God impressed upon me that I was going to hell. So we might not understand everything but we can start to understand with help from God and the Holy Spirit!
@@jailahbryel305 thanks so much. anytime that i feel like i need to understand something, ill definitely make sure i message you. it's just hard for me because i dont have anyone around me in my personal life to help me on things like this, and my main goal is to be as best of a child of God as i can be. 💜
Wow,this just confirmed what the spirit of God had been telling me. God lives in us from birth. Christianity is being introduced as we grow.. I always knew God and actually feared Him. But then Christianity came and said i never knew Him… well He is in control 🙌🏼.
The way we raised our children is that as soon as they understand consequences at that point is the age that they are accountable. Don't know if we were right but it seems to have worked.
If you believe in "Age of Accountability" your line of thinking is the best guess one could make. There is nothing in the Holly Bible that teaches any great degree of this concept clearly. Its more a modern idea, for modern people, with modern ways of thinking. In a manner we must conclude it was not an important topic for thousands of years by it not being a 'thing' to say it modernly.
@@goodolboy-xv6mn The age of accountability is 20 years old under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, unless somewhere the Lord changes His age of accountability. Not one time in the New Covenant writing does a child get immersed into Christ Jesus. Children are without accountable sin in the eyes of the Lord. The great debates of the 19th century of the American Restoration movement, i.e. Alexander Campbell/Owen debate Campbell argued zealously for adult baptism. Now only in recent years, 18 years old is considered an Adult, this was because of the Vietnam war in the mid to late 1960's. And before the 1971 you became an adult at 21 years of age. Leviticus 27:1-8 This is what the Holy Spirit says about those 19 years and below in the Old Covenant: Deuteronomy 1:39 ’Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40’But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.’ See also Numbers 14:29 your corpses will fall in this wilderness, even all your numbered men, according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me. 30 ‘Surely you shall not come into the land in which I swore to settle you, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31‘Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32’But as for you, your corpses will fall in this wilderness. Joshua and Caleb were the only ones who were over 20 years of age who made it to the promised land. In the Torah, The age of 13 years old goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, another age is mentioned: Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8) Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD when you number them so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED SHALL GIVE: HALF A SHEKEL ACCORDING TO THE SHEKEL OF THE SANCTUARY (THE SHEKEL IS TWENTY GERAHS), HALF A SHEKEL AS A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED, FROM TWENTY YEARS OLD AND OVER, SHALL GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “THE RICH SHALL NOT PAY MORE AND THE POOR SHALL NOT PAY LESS THAN THE HALF SHEKEL WHEN YOU GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR YOURSELVES. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.” Question Why do only Israelites 20 years old and upward pay for a ramson/ atonement for sin?
Probably close to the Jewish tradition of thirteen but I suspect that God reads their heart. Only he knows when a soul is aware enough to be accountable.
Ransom for sin those 20 years and upward The Lord also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the Lord, when you number them, so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. This is what everyone who is numbered shall give: half a shekel according to the shekel of the sanctuary (the shekel is twenty gerahs), half a shekel as a contribution to the Lord. Everyone who is numbered, from twenty years old and over, shall give the contribution to the Lord. The rich shall not pay more and the poor shall not pay less than the half shekel, when you give the contribution to the Lord to make atonement for yourselves. You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the Lord, to make atonement for yourselves.” - Exodus 30:11-16
The satisfactory answer found (yes, in scripture) is not a 5 minute sound bite. Look for a video titled "Age of Accountability: The Answer | Bible Questions & Answers" from Pastor-Lawyer David Reid of Columbus OH
Right on, Cliff. I sent a similar message today before I realized that you had sent one previously. I've watched David grow for over 15 years now, and I've learned precious and eternally beneficial truths from his honest, studied and godly teaching. Cliff, I thank God for you and for others who promote godly men and women who rightly divide the word of truth.
Numbers 32:11 “Surely none of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and above, shall see the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because they have not wholly followed Me.” Deuteronomy 1:39 “Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.” Was 20 the age from which God would consider a man accountable specific to the event (Promised land), to the people (Israel), to the time (3500 BC) or universal?
I’m not saying this is absolutely true, but this is an idea. And then some people say the age of 12 or 13 because that was the age of Jesus when he was in the temple.
The origin of the "age of accountability" comes mostly from Num 32:11, which states that none of the Israelites above twenty years old could enter the promised land. Here's my own testimony. I was saved at 18. At my 20th birthday, I understood God was expecting of me something that He was not demanding before. I can't put it into full words. Those few days after my 20th birthday were a spiritual wake-up call and one of the major turning points in my Christian life. I would agree with the video that children are condemned if they die unsaved, but there is something about twenty years old that is significant in God's eyes. I should note that it was years later that I even heard there was an "age of accountability."
Nukepositive Here’s a little something I put together with how i see original sin Original Sin Adam and Eve were not perfect, but innocent. They didn't have the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience didn't accuse them. Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Once they knew they were naked, it was then wrong to be so. Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. The knowledge of good and evil, given to us through Adam's sin, has caused all men to have a conscience which now accuses them before God. Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) This conscience, or law is what condemns us, which is sin. 1Jhn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Children do not have this knowledge of good and evil... Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. Although children do bad things, sin doesn't occur in their lives until they gain this knowledge which occurs in their youth..... Jer 3:25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God. Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. Jer 22:21 I spake unto thee in thy prosperity; but thou saidst, I will not hear. This hath been thy manner from thy youth, that thou obeyedst not my voice. Children do not know they are naked, just as Adam and Eve didn't know, before they ate the fruit. Sin comes in progression, not in birth..... Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Let's look at a couple of verses, and then consider Cain..... Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Micah 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings. Now Cain... Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. Observations.... Look what Peter says to the Gentiles…… 1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (See Deut 32:21, Hos 1:10 for Gentile evidence) 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. We went astray from God (from our youth) but have returned through Jesus Christ. The prodigal son is another good example of this. He was dead, but was alive AGAIN…… Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. Note that the elder son made a claim to have always served his father, unlike the younger who went astray to serve himself. His father didn't rebuke him but essentially confirmed his claim by telling him the entire inheritance was his. The bible tells us that we must become like children to enter the kingdom of God….. Matt 18;3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. The , is that children are free from a conscience towards God. (knowledge of good and evil). We have our conscience purged through Christ.... Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 1Jhn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. In Christ there is no law, no conscience of guilt to separate us from God. Just as a child has no knowledge of good and evil and feels no shame towards God, so do we in Christ. God bless
Accountability and maturity are one and thing. The Bible does say about maturity.What is biblical accountability? Accountability is about being responsible for fulfilling one's duties and obligations. ... Biblical accountability begins with taking responsibility for one's own actions and making a conscious choice of allowing God and others to help in accomplishing what is right. In the Bible there are three stages of growth. Childhood from birth to maturity. From maturity two elderly from elderly to death. Threes all the three stages of maturity a child cannot take responsibility for his actions. With the parents help and discipline the child learns to take responsibility. At the age of 20 is the age of accountability is when the child is now mature and decides to act responsible. At the age of 50 the Bible calls them an old man or father. We will look at First John chapter 2: Reasons for Writing 12 ¶ I am writing to you, little children, since your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. 13 ¶ I am writing to you, fathers, because you have come to know the one who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have conquered the evil one. 14 ¶ I have written to you, children, because you have come to know the Father. I have written to you, fathers, because you have come to know the one who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, God’s word remains in you, and you have conquered the evil one. The Levites were commanded to retire at the age of 50. What was the age of retirement for those who worked at the Tabernacle? This passage says that at age 50, the Levites that have been working in the Tent of Meeting must retire from their regular service. This chapter in Numbers clearly elevated the significance of the Levites, and their work, their hard work in the Tabernacle. You could be drafted into Israel zombie at the age of 20 that’s when you were recognized as a young man and maturing. Numbers 1:45 So all the Israelites twenty years of age or older who could serve in Israel's army were counted according to their families. so we can see the age of accountability is at the age of 20. He is now responsible for his own actions is no longer under the guidance of his father or mother. It’s choices he makes he will be held accountable Ecclesiastes 11:9 (CSB) Rejoice, young person, while you are young, and let your heart be glad in the days of your youth. And walk in the ways of your heart and in the desire of your eyes; but know that for all of these things God will bring you to judgment. At the age of 20 the young man has a choice to obey the law and disobey the law. He will be judged. Here we see in Deuteronomy in a young man cannot be drafted into military service it was at least spent one year with his wife making him 21 years of age for military service. Deuteronomy 24:5 (CSB) “When a man takes a bride, he must not go out with the army or be liable for any duty. He is free to stay at home for one year, so that he can bring joy to the wife he has married. The guy sees a young man from the age of 21 as mature enough to be drafted in military service. Here we see the service age of a Levite in three different descriptions in the Old Testament Numbers 4:3-How can the age for Levitical service be 30, when Numbers 8:24 says 25, and Ezra 3:8 says 20?
It makes sense that a child will not be working in the temple. What a young child will make a fool of themselves. So that Hass to be an age where a young man can be responsible for working in the temple. We are given three types found in numbers in Ezra
We are given an age of accountibility in the book of Numbers chapters 13 and 14. In the Torah, 13 goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, there is another age which is mentioned: . Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8) that 20 is also another societally significant age in the Torah.
I believe it is when a child hits puberty. In the Jewish tradition it is when a boy hit 13. When a person hits puberty the body changes and that is when the mind can think critically. Not as abstract as a child. It’s when the brain can choose and rule over the emotions. So everyone can hit puberty at different ages. When Jesus was 12 he went and began to get involved in asking question in the temple and interjecting his thoughts. I believe that we have to be careful when a child is young that the are to know about Jesus but are not capable of really understanding the concepts of salvation. A child uses more of their subconscious mind until puberty and that they are able to use more of their conscious mind. That is when he can think for himself when it comes to spiritual matters. If a child thinks he is saved before that he doesn’t have a real change of heart but trust the adult that has tod him. It is still important to teach about Christ until they hit puberty and then they can make a decision for Christ at that time.
Had to be 20 to pay the temple tax.. and also anyone under 20 could enter the promise land after the time their parents died off in the wilderness who were over 20 at the time they said they couldnt take the promise land so they were not allowed to enter ..
Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD, when you number them, so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED SHALL GIVE: HALF A SHEKEL ACCORDING TO THE SHEKEL OF THE SANCTUARY (THE SHEKEL IS TWENTY GERAHS), HALF A SHEKEL AS A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED, FROM TWENTY YEARS OLD AND OVER, SHALL GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “THE RICH SHALL NOT PAY MORE AND THE POOR SHALL NOT PAY LESS THAN THE HALF SHEKEL WHEN YOU GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR YOURSELVES. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.” Question Why only Israelites of years old and upward pay for a ramson/ atonement for sin?
@@GodIsLove1John416 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”-- Galatians 3:13 “If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God) so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance.- Deuteronomy 21:22-23 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross (Tree) - Acts 5:30 THE TRUE GOSPEL; Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. - Romans 6:1-11 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls. - 1 Peter 2:21-25 The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” - Acts 8:34-36 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing. - Acts 8:38-39 Now, why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’ - Acts 22:16
Look, at some point you begin to do what YOU want to do. Probably early. At some point you begin to do what you want to do in Rebellion against right versus wrong and don't care. You exercise your will to satisfy you, and you don't care about another will outside of yourself. You have decided, I am my own God.
Babies are innocent. Toddlers are innocent. Christ compared baptism to marriage. He commanded that we weigh the cost. Ask, how old before a young person is capable of making a life-long commitment. It’s different for each person which is why it isn’t spelled out. I’d imagine it’s somewhere in the teens for most people. Remember that “teenager” is a newer term in history. Historically“coming of age” occurred when a boy or girl became capable of having kids themselves.
What about original sin? What about Romans 5:12 - All people have died, because all people (including babies) have sinned? What about Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death (infants die)? Christians whose baptized infants die even hope and faith that their children are in heaven, because Scripture declares that baptism forgives sins (Acts 2:38), washes away sins (Acts 22:16), and Jesus cleanses His church by baptism (Eph. 5:26), etc.
I agree that all people (including babies) are guilty before God in Adam. Therefore, if God chooses to save babies it is just as much an act of Grace as if a fully developed person were to receive their salvation through faith in Jesus. My confidence that God saves babies who die is anchored in the character of God who is loving and just. Romans 1:18-20 says that people are without excuse because enough of God and His character is revealed in creation to warrant condemnation. However, in the case infant mortality, they have an excuse because they were unable to comprehend the knowledge of God that Romans 1:18-20 says is enough to condemn. My understanding of what scripture teaches about baptism is that it is our faith that saves us Ephesians 2:8-9. Baptism is merely an outward picture of an unseen spiritual reality that takes place when a person puts their faith in Jesus for their salvation. Therefore, I don't believe that it is baptism itself as an outward act that saves anyone, rather it is an unseen/spiritual baptism that takes place at the moment a person puts their faith in Jesus for their salvation.
Hello Michael, Romans 1:18-20 is in the context of adults who claimed to be wise but became fools, and not infants. Please tackle Original Sin, which is composed of two things: 1) hereditary guilt (Romans 5:18-19) and 2) hereditary corruption (Ps. 51:5 and John 3:6--the flesh here is not merely the body, but also of the soul as the context shows us). Also, please tackle Romans 5:12 (all people, regardless of age), and Romans 6:23 (the cause of death is God's just wrath on sin, it's our wages). Death occurs, because of God's judgment on sin, if babies were not sinners then they wouldn't die (Ps 90:7-8). On the one hand, we are saved solely by God's grace for Jesus sake alone (no contribution from us at all, otherwise salvation is no longer by grace, but grace plus works, i.e. by God's grace with my comprehension or decision), and on the other hand people and infants who do end up in the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth are there because of their sin. - In short, God _alone_ is the cause, continuation, and end of our salvation; while, the Devil is the cause of sin (because he is the inventor of sin and seduced man), and we, ourselves, are the cause of sin (because we were brought forth in iniquity and conceived in sin--Ps 51:5--and we are not able to keep from sinning--Roman 8:7). The moment we place our works, our comprehension, or anything as contributing or helping God in salvation (or keeping our salvation), we fall headlong into the old semi-pelagian heresy. Before we can even do anything or comprehend anything, in _eternity_ God has elected, chosen, and called you and all believers to eternal life according to his own purpose and _grace_ in Christ Jesus, not because of works (2 Timothy 1:9). Baptism is great means of salvation, along with the Word, and the Lord's Supper/Eucharist. We can talk about that later (one of the means of grace or tools, which God uses to save people), once we finish talking about original sin.
shogunshogun sadly I don’t have time in my life to continue an online discussion like this. So this will be my last comment. I agree that the context of Rom 1:18-20 is not directly adressing infants. Admittedly there is very little scripture to go on to build a case for an age of accountability. The context of Romans is Paul’s exposition of the Gospel to believers in Rome. Verses 18-20 simply convey that general revelation is sufficient to condemn. I’m with you on original sin (guilt & corruption). I’m also with you that God is the beginning and end of salvation and has elected, chosen, & called believers according to his purpose & grace. Where we differ is on baptism and the Lord’s supper as a means of salvation. I assume you hold to an “infused” righteousness through sacraments as opposed to an imputed righteousness by faith alone. I believe the means of salvation is God’s effectual calling through the preaching of his word. Baptism & the Lord’s supper are therefore not a means of justifying grace. They don’t contribute to our salvation but are things saved people do. I sense we will have to agree to dissagree here.
Life has been busy for me so I wasn't able to respond sooner. We differ in at least two points: original sin and the efficacy of God's Word to do what it says it does. We aren't in the same page on original sin, because the age of accountability is against original sin--original sin and the age of accountability cannot both be true, at least one of them is false (hint: the unscriptural doctrine of the age of accountability). They are mutually exclusive doctrines in regards to one another. Original sin says that we are born spiritual dead, we are by nature children of God's wrath; but, the age of accountability says that we are not born spiritually dead, because we can use our reason to decide to believe Christ's work of salvation for all people. Can a dead man decide to breathe? No it can't; a spiritually dead person has as much power to decide to believe in Christ and His atoning work as corpse has power to decide to breathe. The age of accountability doesn't take original sin seriously, and ultimately it ignores original sin. I don't hold to a belief of infused righteousness/infused grace (_gratia_ _infusa_). Also, we differ in viewing God's Word as efficacious. (I know that you wrote that you are busy to write another comment, but this is more so for others who have similar beliefs as you currently hold) How do you know that is only through the preaching of His word that we are saved? I know and believe that not only does God uses His Word, specifically the Gospel, but He also uses Baptism and the Lord's Supper to save us. Baptism takes place for the forgiveness of sins, to wash away sins (Acts 2:38; 22:16). God's Word says that there is salvation in baptism, i.e. the water with the Word forgives sins. In the Lord's Supper, Christ Himself gives His body and sheds His blood for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 22:19-20; Matt. 26:26-28). God's Word says that there is salvation in the Lord's Supper, i.e. the bread and the wine with Christ's true body and blood forgives sins.
I do not disagree with original sin. I do not see belief in an age of accountability (AOA) at odds with original sin. I think you misunderstand AOA. I’ve given up debating this point with you since it is clear that you do not hold to a classical christian understanding of the application of justification to sinners. I thought that maybe you could be arguing from a Roman Catholic position which is why I thought you held to an infused righteousness. Since you deny infused righteousness, I am truly confused by your belief system. It is neither Roman Catholic nor classically Protestant. I’d be curious to know where you received your theological training as I am unfamiliar with any classically christian, biblical scholar who would argue the points you have here. For the benefit of others who may read this thread, neither baptism or the Lord’s supper are salvific and this is very clear in scripture. The verses that Shogunshogun cites in support of his claims are misinterpreted. If they mean what he claims they mean, then they would be in direct contradiction to Romans chapters 1-5, Ephesians 2:8-10, and others. Scripture will never contradict itself. When there is an apparent contradiction between passages, one of them does not mean what you may think it means at first. Baptism does not save anyone. For a well articulated biblical support visit the following article: www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html The Lord’s Supper also does not save anyone. Jesus’ discussion of this in John 6:22-63 is very clear that Jesus was speaking in spiritual terms and not literal. "For by grace you have been saved through faith [not baptism or the Lord’s Supper]. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works [like baptism or the Lord’s Supper], so that no one may boast [like you would be able to if we were saved by participation in baptism or the Lord’s supper]." Ephesians 2:8-9
Numbers 14:29 your corpses will fall in this wilderness, even all your numbered men, according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me. 30 ‘Surely you shall not come into the land in which I swore to settle you, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31‘Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32’But as for you, your corpses will fall in this wilderness. Joshua and Caleb were the only ones that were over 20 years of age that made it to the promised land. In the Torah, 13 goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, there is another age which is mentioned: 20 years old. Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8) that 20 is also another societally significant age in the Torah.
Read Numbers chapters 13 and 14 those that were 20 years old; Exodus 30 the giving of money for a ransom of sins Numbers 1:3-45, serving in the military Numbers 14:28-30 Punishment for disobedience those 20 years and upward, not permitted into the promised land. Read chapters 13 and 14 of the book of Numbers. (Those twenty years old and upward accountable for actions/sin) In the books of the Law (Torah) the age of 13 goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. Numbers 26:3-4 Counted the in the census, The age of accountability is 20 years old under the Old-Covenant and the New-Covenant unless somewhere the lord the His age of accountability. Not one time in the New Covenant writings does one child get immersed into Christ Jesus. Children are without sin in the eyes of the Lord.
Age of accountability is proven in the book of Numbers 14:29 Your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness, and all that were numbered if you according to your whole number, from 20 years old and upward which have murmured against me
Let, s reason for a minute there are 366 days in the year 2020, if the age of accountability is 20 then how do you think God is going to judge someone who dies this year at 19 years and 365 days? I doubt God would use our human reasoning of age laws. I think it woul depend on the person. I believe when a child is somewhere between 15 and 18 he or she could be held accountable for his or her sins.
@@hauahmisshellychaitram6547 like when you, re under 20? I get why soldiers where over the 20. When you are a male in you, re a male in you, re early 20,s that, s when you, re body becomes that of a full grown men, and you, re in a great position for combat. So before you turn 20 you, r parents get to be blamed for your sins? Is that what you're saying? Cause I don't think I fully understand you. BTW sorry if the grammar is a bitt off.
Not to forget in the ancient Hebrew lunar calendar one year would only contain 354 meaning :354x20=7080 days. A solar year contains 365 days and every 4 years there is a leap year od 366 days. (365x16) =5840+(366x4)=1464 =7304 224 days langer then the ancient Hebrew calendar what would bring there years, to ours 19 years and 4 to months.
After researching I believe 20 is the age of maturity. Like you, re now considerd 100 % accountable foe your deeds in the eyes of God. When Paul speaks about passing the flower of her age he was probably referring to the ancient Greek standard of maturity which was years old. Scientists now know that it takes 20 to 25 years for a person to fully mature
Could the age of accountability be applied to those who have no means of hearing about Jesus. Say for instance North Koreans who have much limited acces compared to us?
It would still apply to them it’s in our nature like we know right from wrong no one has to tell us that killing someone is bad we know that it’s bad. And we can see the existence of God in everything around us and people in North Korea still get told about the Gospel yes it is harder to tell other about it over there but they have underground churches it’s incredible because the members each memorize a book of the Bible because it’s too dangerous to have a Bible over there
Jesus says "let the little children come to me." And He says "you must become as a child to enter into the kingdom of heaven." The Bible might indicate that the age of accountability was the age a young Israelite boy matures into military age at 20. Though this is an implication, nothing explicit, it is a question worthy to ask.
I think it would be 13 , because this is the start of teenage years , cause children can not understand as much as teenagers do. My brother at age 8 knew that he did something wrong and knew my dad will punish him so he prayed that God will help him and not let my dad punish him. He understood what is wrong and right because we told him it was wrong but before doing it he did not know. So at age 13 the child will have had a better understanding of right and wrong , they will start thinking in a different way and understand that they can not anymore act as children. Even in our world if a person is still under 18 and commits a crime , they will be judged and then be sent to prison when they reach the age of 18. So age 20 is not the age of accountability.
@@lydiacoronado4257 maybe God wanted to use these children for sending a message through their experience ? or near death experience to show His power and might to even get someone back from the dead ? maybe God would judge children but I don't think He would send them to hell , they are very innoceant at this age and just say and do what is on their heart , once I watched a video about a teenager who says that God gave her a vision of hell and heaven , and she said that she saw in hell a child of 8 years old , and the reason is that he refused to obey his parents and did not care for spiritual things , I cant remember in details but she did say something about church and obeying his parents , but disobeying is part of their childhood , they still can not understand exactly why they have to obey , so it seems this was a false teaching , 8 years old in hell ? at 8 years old , I couldnt even understand why I had to accept Jesus in my heart and life , I saw that I did not do big sins , so no need to be saved , it is still our brain developing at such age..
Why 20 years and upward? Numbers 32:11 'None of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob; for they did not follow Me fully,
Yes! A satisfactory answer is found (yes, in scripture, but not a 5 minute sound bite). The video titled "Age of Accountability: The Answer | Bible Questions & Answers" from Pastor-Lawyer David Reid of Columbus OH
@@CliveChamberlain946 you may want to get rid of your honorific titles in front of your name. "Pastor " is derived from the latin and is functional term.
@@spiritjoerr7508 Right you are again brother! I only use that when I suspect I am speaking to people within "churchianity" at large (besides I am not a sheep). I normally prefix preacher Joe etc..
MacArthur did a sermon on "the age of accountability", he made the point that it's more of the "condition of accountability" not age. We in the Reformed Faith understand that babies go straight back to God upon death, but in the case of a 25 year old with the mind of a 5 year old, you can't honestly say that God would "send them to Hell". "A hundred and twenty thousand people who don't know their left hand from the right" is only referring to 2 kinds of people, babies/small children, or mentally retarded people.
I'm a security officer, and just yesterday I watched as a little girl (maybe about 4) disobeyed her father and refused openly that she would not put the toy back, when asked by her father to put it back she said "No!" Firming standing her position with a stiff body, "Put the toy back, please." - "No!". She began to chew the toy and then threw the toy to the ground. Her father gave in after the toy was thrown and brought it for her. This little girl will be fully accountable before God. The bible doesn't mention age accountability because there isn't such a thing as age accountability except that before salvation, we are all guilty in Adam.
Victoria Cabrera A 4 year old child knows well enough to obey a parent's instruction. The defiant "NO!" breaks the 5th Commandment. The breaking of God's moral law is SIN and the wages of SIN is death -- both physical and spiritual. A 4 year old sinning child IS accountable and needs salvation just as much as the 75 year old unrepentant sinner. Where in Scripture did you read that sin before the age of 13 isn't accountable? Be sure you didn't find it anywhere in the Holy Bible but perhaps, by your own faulty reasoning or from someone else who preached/taught such nonsense.
Psalm 51:5. I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me..That's your answer. This is why most parents in Christianity have historically brought their children to be baptized as infants, as Peter commands in Acts 2: let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and and for all those far off, for all that the Lord our God will call. (There's no age requirement listed here notice)
The Holy Spirit comes to reside in a person at the moment of faith that is initiated by God. A baby getting baptized is not going to initiate faith, nor does water baptism save a person. The Bible is clear that those who confess and believe are children of God. Furthermore, the baptism being talked in that verse has to do with spirit baptism. Remember, Jesus said that John baptized of water, but He baptizes with the spirit.
The Scripture is quite clear regarding this issue: What about the spiritual condition of those who have never heard the gospel message? (infants, the severely mentally challenged, and the heathen) Biblical truth #1. All people (including infants, the severely mentally challenged, and the heathen) are lost sinners and in need of salvation Psalm 14:3 All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Psalm 143:2 Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you. Proverbs 20:9 Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin"? Eccles. 7:20 There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins. Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. Romans 3:9-12 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, Ephesians 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. Biblical truth #2. There is no salvation without faith in Christ John 3:18 Whoever BELIEVES in him is not condemned, but whoever does not BELIEVE stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:36 Whoever BELIEVES in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 16:30-31 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Romans 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have FAITH in Jesus. Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by FAITH apart from observing the law. Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who CALLS on the name of the Lord will be saved." Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Biblical truth #3. There is no faith in Christ, and therefore no salvation, without first hearing the gospel message Acts 11:13-14 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, 'Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.' Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 18:9-10 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: "Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city." Romans 10:9-17 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. SUMMARY: No conversion--no salvation! No exceptions! Hearing of the gospel, and subsequent conversion (faith & repentance) are absolutely essential to salvation. All of the elect must hear the gospel and believe it--there are no exceptions.
Exactly. Liberal Christians just pick and choose verses to make them feel better. They think that American kids go to heaven but non Americans who never heard of Jesus go strait to hell. How convenient.
Read First John chapter 12:12-15 "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
Nehemiah 8 covers accountability. In that it says men, women and all those who could hear and understand. While it is talking about the law, the law is explained by Jesus in the gospels not being destroyed but fulfilled.
Surely, if there is an age of accountability that means we are not born sinful? Otherwise, children could go to heaven without having their sin resolved by faith in Jesus or it means that we only become sinful after this age, not needing regeneration before it.
Correct. We aren’t born sinful. Christ the Lord said little children are alive in Him because of His mercy. The curse of Adam is taken from them in Jesus Christ.
@@Aaron-Miller-1138 but isn't the whole idea that we are sinful because of the curse of Adam and only those who believe in Jesus and repent are forgiven?
@@aidanbenbow6682 Yes, we sin because of the fall. Before the fall of Adam and Eve they didn’t sin because they were innocent. Because they couldn’t sin they knew no misery and because they knew no misery they knew no joy. Since they were like little children they couldn’t obey the commandment from God to multiply and replenish the Earth. Adam and Eve fell that man might be. And because of the fall, they had children. That’s why we’re here now. And we can sin when we’re old enough, and since we sin, the Lord God provided us a Savior. And that Savior is Jesus Christ the Son of God. Yes, those who repent and call upon God in the name of Christ with faith are forgiven through His atonement. 🙂
Luke 12:46-48 KJV [46] The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. [47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
No. This is a falsehood. Adam made a mistake but he knew God himself. He walked with God. Without speaking for God; Adam felt shame and guilt. As do I. Knowing the truth and rejecting it is so bad. Guilt comes from knowing and not acknowledging.
I have never studied this to any great degree but assume these verses may be where the idea of all humanity being born with a sin nature stems from 1 Corinthians 15: 21-22, Psalm 51: 5. Probably others that can be referred to also.
20 years old; Exodus 30:13-14, Giving of money Numbers 1:3-45, serving in the military Numbers@-30 (need to read chapters 13 and 14 fully) Punishment for disobedience Numbers 26:3-4 Counted in the census
@@spiritjoerr7508 i had a dream and i was only 11 or 12 about the rapture and I was indeed left behind 🤷♀️ And i think in my own opinion those 7 or under are truly innocent and are saved but those 8+ are held accountable
I believe God holds people accountable based on their moral awareness and ability to reason which comes with age, not with a specific manmade age. Age in years is just a measurement that humans use to simplify things. God doesn’t need to simplify things as he is an omnipotent and omniscient being.
Scriptural Age of Accountability Is child baptism Scriptural? At what age does the Bible consider one an adult, and a candidate for imWhat is the minimum age for baptism into Yahshua’s Name? The Apostle Peter clearly showed that one should be old enough to repent. When the Jews were convicted of their sin, they asked what they should do. Peter responded in Acts 2:38, "Repent and be immersed every one of you in the Name of Yahshua the Messiah for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Obviously a person should be old enough to understand repentance before being baptized. What does the Bible mean by "repent?" Briefly, to turn completely from our wicked ways, stop doing those things that Yahweh condemns, and obediently follow in the footsteps of Yahshua. We are to be totally broken up over our past sins and vow not to repeat those things we know are wrong and sinful. When we do sin, we are to confess our sin and ask forgiveness through Yahshua.
Jews Hold Bar-Mitzvah at 13 Luke chapter 2 relates how Yahshua was left behind by His parents in Jerusalem following the Passover and the days of Unleavened Bread. He was about age 13, and even today Jewish boys have a ceremony known as "Bar-Mitzvah," meaning Son of the Covenant, when they are accepted into the congregation. Is 13 the age of accountability, the age when one can with complete understanding repent and then be immersed? Some groups immerse young people at the early age of 10 or 12. It is difficult to find Biblical justification to immerse at that age. Let us continue considering other examples and alternatives. The Savior Himself did not begin His ministry until He was 30 years of age, right after His baptism. Early on, the priests began their service at age 30 as well. Surely at 30 one is mature and responsible for one’s behavior. Most of us would wonder whether at 30 too many years have already passed before making a commitment to Yahweh. Does the Bible speak of a younger age?
Differing Ages of Maturity At what age does Yahweh deem us accountable for our actions? The Bible speaks of babes not knowing their left hand from their right. We are also encouraged to be children in attitude and men in understanding. There is an age when Yahweh considers children no longer children, but at the acceptable age of understanding. Yahweh recognizes that a youth has limitations, as in the following example regarding large amounts: "And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child [lad] may write [record] them." (Isa. 10:19) A young child would be limited in his grasp of large quantities. This indicates that we comprehend progressively more as we mature in understanding and discernment, which should be obvious to all. Admittedly there are those who mature in the Bible at a young age who realize well beyond their years the seriousness and the importance of baptism. There are also some who even at the age of 30 have not reached a proper level of maturity. So what conclusion can we come to? Thankfully, the Bible does indeed give us an age in which one is considered accountable for what one does. Yahweh’s Assembly in Yahshua understands Scripturally that upon reaching the age of 20, Yahweh accepts one as being mature and an adult, therefore responsible for one’s actions. Let us now look at Scriptural support for the age of 20 in Yahweh's dealings with Israel .
20 is way to old people know full well what they are doing well before the age of 20,. I just seen a video were a 16 year old young man executed 4 people in philly in cold blood. your going to tell me that he was not mature enough to know that such a evil horrendous wicked act was not wrong? how about the group of 14-16 year old young men who visciously raped a woman and forced her to give her own son oral sex. Your going to tell me that those young men were not mature enough to know such a evil horrendous wicked act that was not wrong? How about the teenage females under 18 who are physical and mentally capable of haveing sex getting pregnant and give birth without no complications. Your going to tell me they were not mature enough to know what they were doing .? when obvious they were physically and mentally mature enough to do such things. Its amazing how humans blatantly turn a blind eye to the truth and deliberatly put teenager on the same level as biological children , knowing full well that it is a big diffrence between the 2. But you know I expect blatant lying and truth denying from humans. But to see that comeing from religion itself im shocked.
Who paid for attonement of sin? Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD, when you number them, so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.”
The age of accountability is not in the Bible but the age is is no age but I know I thing if your child knows right from wrong then they can go too hell but I don't know we're they gonna go I have children my 8 year old daughter understand Jesus she prays everyday with me
The following is the best article on what Scripture teaches about infant salvation. Please copy and paste the title into your browser: A Scriptural Review and Response to John MacArthur's Safe in the Arms of God: Truth from Heaven About the Death of a Child
Sin is much dependent on will, if someone actively wants to go against what God said. A child I believe if does wrong does with no mean intention to hurt, and God is good and merciful. If a parent can forgive a child's mistake God sure can as well.
------- first of these videos I have watched where the apologist actually did approach giving an honest answer - which was: there is NO place in scripture where such a concept is given or even really implied. About the closest one could come in scripture would be during the supposed Exodus where everyone ABOVE the age of 20 wasn't allowed to pass into the "Promised Land" and the Hebrews had to wander ( actually they mostly just camped-out [ 38 years ] at Kadesh-barnea ) for 40 years in the wilderness till all the older generations died off. The entire concept of "age of accountability" is foreign to the OT - keep in mind we are told we are ALL born with 'original sin' and are corrupt from birth - and YHWH frequently murders children and infants ( first born of Egypt, the entire families of the followers of Korah, and the newborn son of David and Bathsheba are good examples )
What About the Jewish teaches of 12 and 13 year's old. Bar Mitzvahs. At 12. And 13. That is the supposed age. And CATHOLIC church does about 12 and AMISH DO AFTER 16 LIKE 18. SO ?????
The Scripture has given us Leads/proofs of the age of accountability, being 1/10th of the life of a man. In Isaiah 65:20 KJV, the context being the Millennial kingdom of 1000 years, it states that a child is so till the age of 100 at which time he would be held accountable as a sinner if he has yet to believe, and be accursed. Since there is not death in the Millennium, for it will be under Edenic conditions, everyone will be able to live till the end. Presently, the Bible speaks of man life span be about 70 years of age. 1/10th of 70 is 7, the same ratio in both ages, the present evil age and the age to come (Millennium), accountable today at ~ 7 years of age.
@@gavinbeard4026 try again, God does not send the INNOCENT to hell, as would be those with mental retardation, autism, or under the age of accountability, etc. Perhaps you overlooked Isaiah 14:19-22 [speaking about the Serpent seed line, as were all of the Canaanites of Sodom & Gomorrah] the seeds (descendants) to be destroyed, “prepare slaughter for his children”, to whom resurrection will not apply. Tell GOD that you find his words/ways ‘silly’, not me. What I do see is that you neither know nor understand what is meant in Isaiah 65 on the matter.
@@josefernandez-leon4024 I’m talking about how 8 year olds can be sent to hell is silly. Have you ever met an 8,9, 10 year old? If not they know right from wrong as everybody does from a young age though what they don’t know is why it’s wrong or right and the lasting consequences of certain actions. I don’t think it’s silly to say God doesn’t sent children to hell I think it’s silly that you think 8 year olds are sent to hell
@@gavinbeard4026 Paul speaks in Romans 7:7-11, how sin first entered into his life, was by THE COMMAND to believe in the Creator (God created all things by His Son, JC). Before then he was innocent till the commandment came, sin revived and he died (spiritually, slayed by sin). What do you think that means? A chronological age. And also speaks that ALL MANKIND is guilty before GOD, no exceptions, when the Lord holds the person no longer innocent. It is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL that is IN SIGHT HERE (Rev 14:6). For in that He died for all was because ALL ARE GUILTY [2Cor 5:14,15 KJV]. All are guilty by the same rule, no different. All are saved by the same gift of Faith, “THE FAITH” OF JC. God foreknew before the foundation of the world who in time would believe in His Son, for none were ‘in Christ’ nor were placed ‘in Christ’ by GOD at the foundation of the world. My initial thread was about the consistency in the word of GOD, comparing what we know today with that which Isaiah wrote in 65:20. It is your mind that thinks that the Lord would send an 8 year old “ to Hell”outside a context. Five times in my life I was on the verge of getting killed or dying but did not perish, now 30 years later I know why, He physically saved me then in that He knew I would believe. Would He not do that for anyone else? Surely He does. How about the seed of the Serpent? Did you read Isaiah 14, how the Lord will destroy the children of the devil? Problem is most seem to think that all written in Genesis ch 1-11 is myth or symbolic, while it is literal. Yet God speaks of the Seed of Cain, the very son of Lucifer the Serpent (Satan) and most fail to see where it all is in the Bible. One cannot let the “professors” in Seminary dictate how to hermeneutically understand. Were there children in Sodom & Gomorrah? Did not all die? YES, SERPENT SEED, an illicit line that Scripture says He will wipe off the face of the earth at Armageddon. Did GOD not have even the children of the Canaanites (Serpent seeds) killed when Joshua conquered the land killed? Are there not 2 lines today, of the 2 Seeds in Conflict in this world? As written in Genesis 3:15? Yes, the seed of the woman, JC vs the seed of the Serpent, Cain who is the devil and will be the AntiChrist. My point in all these, is that your conclusion fails to understand, for calling what the Scripture says ‘silly’ [did you even read Isaiah 14?] or put words on my mouth that I have not said nor written is equivocating. Where did I say that GOD would send 8 year olds to Hell? Is that not all what you concluded in your mind according to the framework of understanding you embrace? Apparently I must not even have met 8,9,10 year olds while I have lived on this earth. Ask first and conclude when you are given an answer.
Some use Jewish tradition as a reference point.The tradition of the Bar or Bat Mitzvah which determines that when a child enters his or her adolescence, it is then that they are responsible for their moral decisions & behavior.I honestly don't know if that's truly the Biblical approach but I've seen cases where Christian families follow that belief (not necessarily the celebration of it)& use it as an imperative to bring their children up in the admonition of the Lord as early as is reasonable.That,probably is the best way to deal with this issue.
The age of accountability is 12 or 13 because 12 or 13 are the ages that people become adults and 12 or 13 are the ages that people in Biblical times were considered to become adults.
@@johnm84 2 Chronicles 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
The age of accountability has so little biblical grounds that its actually astounding that it is treated like a serious doctrine. That said, it should be recognized that only the most callous and hard hearted legalist would demand damnation for infants based on the doctrine of original sin. The fact is Charles Spurgeon preached an entire sermon on infant damnation and its available online. It is devoid of scripture but absolutely filled with an appeal to the beauty and kindness of God. That is the only basis upon which this belief is built. And thats actually not a bad thing. Lets say a family in an unreached village is raising their children in the devout Hindu tradition. Their son just turned six and is offering prayers and incense at the temple because all he knows is the Hindu gods. He is guilty of idolatry and graven images. At age 6 years 5 months he and his father die of an infectious disease. Does God accept a 6 year old idolator into heaven but send the father to hell? If so, how do you explain that scripturally? If God does not accept him into heaven then the age of accountability is out the window and we have no basis with which to believe any child can escape judgement on original sin. On what basis does God forgive them? You may say that God bases his forgiveness on the childs ignorance. Its not their fault because they were raised that way. Well guess what, so were his parents. The father is illiterate and farms for a living. The mother has no education and makes rugs and raises children. And until now no one has told them any different about God. So are you prepared to say God will distinguish between a 6 year olds idolatrous ignorance and a 25 year olds idolatrous ignorance simply because of a 19 year difference in age? How do you support that scripturally? The creator of a quadrillion billion galaxies cannot abide by the inconvenient fact that a human has never heard of His son Jesus therefore his son Kadeem must burn in hell forever? Or are we prepared to accept that the God who created the quantum universe will send a child to heaven but send his father to hell when there is no difference between them except 19 infinitesimal circles around the sun? Would you do that? Are you kinder than God or is God kinder than any of us could imagine? How could the God of a trillion stars be so helpless to avert the kind of tragedy our traditional theology of hell seems to paint for mankind? All of this is rectified by the universal salvation of Jesus Christ. All these questions are put to rest by the love of Jesus. Those he died for, He will have. Jesus died for all. Hindu father and Hindu child. Not that their Hinduism is a path to God at all, Hinduism kept them in the dark. God wants them to live in the light. Thanks to Jesus Christ they will.
Mark Deckard Listen to a sermon by John MacArthur, called “What Happens to Babies Who Die?” It’s a 3 part series, but part 2 has the most scriptural proofs in it. I was pleasantly surprised how many scriptural proofs there are. Peace.
It's not an "age" of accountability, it's a "level" of accountability based on the ability to mentally comprehend the issues. Some adults for example never develop the mental capacity to understand enough to be be culpable for their actions. That said, Luther and others have noted the ability of infants to be able to believe based on John the Baptists response of "leaping in the womb" when Mary, pregnant with Christ entered the house. Faith is a gift of God, however we have no way of knowing what God considers faith in infants to be.
Blameless and sinless are 2 different things, my oldest brother has a severe form of Autism, he's been in a special care home since he was 9 years old because he couldn't control his behavior and was biting everyone, it's under control now. The point is that he can't be responsible for his actions the same way an infant can't. Ultimately he is a God that will do which is right, and that's all we need to know when it comes to that question!
For something so critical you would think that the Bible would address it clearly. Here’s a curve ball, what if the churches doctrine of eternal torment is wrong? What if the wages of sin IS actual death, ceasing to exist, back to dust. Check out the second death...
I believe Jesus spoke against this. He spoke on he’ll multiple times and of course the wages of sin is death (separation from life aka God) . I believe there are degrees in hell. But none of them good of course
Eternal torment seems to be for a select few (satan, false prophet, beast, fallen angels, and perhaps those who take the mark of the beast), as far as it seems to be seen). All the other unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire but they burn up and become ash and are no more.
The age of accountability, reading the gospel of nicodemus in Jesus’s visiting hades and in that gospel everyone goes to the underworld. Hades is where everyone goes after they dead.The Greeks thought too that people went to the underworld. Even Jesus thought that there was a underworld from the parable Of the rich and Lazarus going to Abraham busin
How can this person speaking say that there are no verses in the Bible regarding age of accountability when it is clearly in Exodus and Numbers???? 20 years old and older!!
Those verses don't say you are excused from sin until you're 20. The age of accountability isn't biblical. It's a product of low church protestants. Infant baptism is biblical. You must be washed of original sin.
Heres how I got it...in science they said the brain is fully matured at age 25. And the little boy who died, went to Heaven, and came back said his dead Uncle was 25 up there in Heaven. He pointed out pictures of his uncle when he was 25. So yeah it's 25 for me. I remember myself coming to true adulthood when I was 25. TRUE adulthood.
I doubt there would be any set age for accountability because chronological age is nothing but a worldly measurement used by humans. God is beyond any human constructed measurements. God would hold people accountable based on their moral awareness and ability to reason which comes with age rather than a set age. This covers special needs people and the truth that people mature at different rates.
@@truthteller9522 I became a Christian at 18. Besides NDE have not been proven. Just because you're not fully done developing doesn't mean that you can't comprehend. The age of accountability is like a little child and he messes up but he is unaware of the problems of his actions. Is the father to scream at him and spank him for something the child can not comprehend. When you're 7 you can probably start to understand implications of your actions. But we are all different and develop at different rates. Could be 7 for someone and then could be never for someone who say has autism or a mental handicap even though they are 52 years old. God will judge us fairly.
@@truthteller9522 I don't think it is that old, but I do think that for men, something "clicks" around age 25. For me, it was like a greater understanding or awareness of the way the world works, less gullibility, and greater mental maturity. I'm almost 46 now, but I distinctly remember being 25 and all of a sudden feeling more mature and aware with less of a desire to do immature things.
Bad church doctrine leads to questions like this one. Look, nobody goes to heaven or hell when they die regardless of their age. Moreover, there is no such thing as endless torment for anybody, young or old. The church needs to just teach what the Bible says and leave the fairy tales to the comic books.
@@dianashepherd3241 *" scripture talks more about hell than it does about heaven!"* You are mistaken Diana. The Bible talks about hades (OT)/sheol (NT) and Gehenna, yes. And I realize that some Bibles (not all) translate those three words as "hell" but none of them represents a place of eternal conscious torment.
A 16 year old girl I knew and trained in basketball drowned recently, she was an awesome human being, I found out later she was a Muslim and now I’m wrestling with where she will spend eternity 🥺
This life can be a horror at times. You can save yourself thru Christ though.
Jesus is the savor of the world his finished work on the torture device paid the debt, his work not ours saves us.
@@camerongray4356 The age of accountability is 20 years old under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, unless somewhere the Lord changes His age of accountability. Not one time in the New Covenant writing does a child get immersed into Christ Jesus. Children are without accountable sin in the eyes of the Lord.
The great debates of the 19th century of the American Restoration movement, i.e. Alexander Campbell/Owen debate Campbell argued zealously for adult baptism.
Now only in recent years, 18 years old is considered an Adult, this was because of the Vietnam war in the mid to late 1960's. And before the 1971 you became an adult at 21 years of age.
Leviticus 27:1-8
This is what the Holy Spirit says about those 19 years and below in the Old Covenant:
Deuteronomy 1:39 ’Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40’But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.’
See also Numbers 14:29 your corpses will fall in this wilderness, even all your numbered men, according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me. 30 ‘Surely you shall not come into the land in which I swore to settle you, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31‘Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32’But as for you, your corpses will fall in this wilderness.
Joshua and Caleb were the only ones who were over 20 years of age who made it to the promised land.
In the Torah, The age of 13 years old goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, another age is mentioned:
Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8)
Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD when you number them so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED SHALL GIVE: HALF A SHEKEL ACCORDING TO THE SHEKEL OF THE SANCTUARY (THE SHEKEL IS TWENTY GERAHS), HALF A SHEKEL AS A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED, FROM TWENTY YEARS OLD AND OVER, SHALL GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “THE RICH SHALL NOT PAY MORE AND THE POOR SHALL NOT PAY LESS THAN THE HALF SHEKEL WHEN YOU GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR YOURSELVES. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.”
Question Why do only Israelites 20 years old and upward pay for a ramson/ atonement for sin?
Thank you for this, I've been asking this question for years.
Lynn McIntosh
Original Sin
Adam and Eve were not perfect, but innocent. They didn't have the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience didn't accuse them.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Once they knew they were naked, it was then wrong to be so.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
The knowledge of good and evil, given to us through Adam's sin, has caused all men to have a conscience which now accuses them before God.
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
This conscience, or law is what condemns us, which is sin.
1Jhn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Children do not have this knowledge of good and evil...
Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Although children do bad things, sin doesn't occur in their lives until they gain this knowledge which occurs in their youth.....
Jer 3:25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God.
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Jer 22:21 I spake unto thee in thy prosperity; but thou saidst, I will not hear. This hath been thy manner from thy youth, that thou obeyedst not my voice.
Children do not know they are naked, just as Adam and Eve didn't know, before they ate the fruit. Sin comes in progression, not in birth.....
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Let's look at a couple of verses, and then consider Cain.....
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Micah 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.
Now Cain...
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Observations....
Look what Peter says to the Gentiles……
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (See Deut 32:21, Hos 1:10 for Gentile evidence)
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
We went astray from God (from our youth) but have returned through Jesus Christ. The prodigal son is another good example of this. He was dead, but was alive AGAIN……
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Note that the elder son made a claim to have always served his father, unlike the younger who went astray to serve himself. His father didn't rebuke him but essentially confirmed his claim by telling him the entire inheritance was his.
The bible tells us that we must become like children to enter the kingdom of God…..
Matt 18;3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The , is that children are free from a conscience towards God. (knowledge of good and evil). We have our conscience purged through Christ....
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
1Jhn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
In Christ there is no law, no conscience of guilt to separate us from God. Just as a child has no knowledge of good and evil and feels no shame towards God, so do we in Christ.
God bless
@@evanu6579 parents determine the ages of responsibility, not accountability before God. 20 years old;
Exodus 30:13-14, Giving of money
Numbers 1:3-45, serving in the military
Numbers@-30 (need to read chapters 13 and 14 fully) Punishment for disobedience
Numbers 26:3-4 Counted in the census
The only verse we can get an inference from is that Jesus started preaching in the synagogue when he was 12. But this cannot be counted dogmatically. We just trust God that He will always do the right thing because he will and we raise our children in the way that they should go. God gives the increase
as a 14 year old, i do think im still too young to really be hearing or understanding everything. i dont know everything about Christianity, but i know im a child of God and will never stop being religious.
Sister I’m 15, and we don’t know everything but we CAN/WILL know as much as anyone else. It may be a bit harder for us to understand but I believe at this age we’re very accountable. I got saved at 13, I believe, and before I was truly saved (I was “a Christian” but still lived like hell), God impressed upon me that I was going to hell. So we might not understand everything but we can start to understand with help from God and the Holy Spirit!
And I don’t usually see the TH-cam messages so PLEASE txt me if you need me sister, you can just say “I’m Bella from TH-cam) and I’ll remember you❤️
@@jailahbryel305 thanks so much. anytime that i feel like i need to understand something, ill definitely make sure i message you. it's just hard for me because i dont have anyone around me in my personal life to help me on things like this, and my main goal is to be as best of a child of God as i can be. 💜
Wow,this just confirmed what the spirit of God had been telling me. God lives in us from birth. Christianity is being introduced as we grow.. I always knew God and actually feared Him. But then Christianity came and said i never knew Him… well He is in control 🙌🏼.
The way we raised our children is that as soon as they understand consequences at that point is the age that they are accountable. Don't know if we were right but it seems to have worked.
If you believe in "Age of Accountability" your line of thinking is the best guess one could make. There is nothing in the Holly Bible that teaches any great degree of this concept clearly.
Its more a modern idea, for modern people, with modern ways of thinking. In a manner we must conclude it was not an important topic for thousands of years by it not being a 'thing' to say it modernly.
@@goodolboy-xv6mn The age of accountability is 20 years old under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, unless somewhere the Lord changes His age of accountability. Not one time in the New Covenant writing does a child get immersed into Christ Jesus. Children are without accountable sin in the eyes of the Lord.
The great debates of the 19th century of the American Restoration movement, i.e. Alexander Campbell/Owen debate Campbell argued zealously for adult baptism.
Now only in recent years, 18 years old is considered an Adult, this was because of the Vietnam war in the mid to late 1960's. And before the 1971 you became an adult at 21 years of age.
Leviticus 27:1-8
This is what the Holy Spirit says about those 19 years and below in the Old Covenant:
Deuteronomy 1:39 ’Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40’But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.’
See also Numbers 14:29 your corpses will fall in this wilderness, even all your numbered men, according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me. 30 ‘Surely you shall not come into the land in which I swore to settle you, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31‘Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32’But as for you, your corpses will fall in this wilderness.
Joshua and Caleb were the only ones who were over 20 years of age who made it to the promised land.
In the Torah, The age of 13 years old goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, another age is mentioned:
Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8)
Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD when you number them so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED SHALL GIVE: HALF A SHEKEL ACCORDING TO THE SHEKEL OF THE SANCTUARY (THE SHEKEL IS TWENTY GERAHS), HALF A SHEKEL AS A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED, FROM TWENTY YEARS OLD AND OVER, SHALL GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “THE RICH SHALL NOT PAY MORE AND THE POOR SHALL NOT PAY LESS THAN THE HALF SHEKEL WHEN YOU GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR YOURSELVES. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.”
Question Why do only Israelites 20 years old and upward pay for a ramson/ atonement for sin?
Probably close to the Jewish tradition of thirteen but I suspect that God reads their heart. Only he knows when a soul is aware enough to be accountable.
Ransom for sin those 20 years and upward
The Lord also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the Lord, when you number them, so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. This is what everyone who is numbered shall give: half a shekel according to the shekel of the sanctuary (the shekel is twenty gerahs), half a shekel as a contribution to the Lord. Everyone who is numbered, from twenty years old and over, shall give the contribution to the Lord. The rich shall not pay more and the poor shall not pay less than the half shekel, when you give the contribution to the Lord to make atonement for yourselves. You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the Lord, to make atonement for yourselves.”
- Exodus 30:11-16
The satisfactory answer found (yes, in scripture) is not a 5 minute sound bite. Look for a video titled "Age of Accountability: The Answer | Bible Questions & Answers" from Pastor-Lawyer David Reid of Columbus OH
Right on, Cliff. I sent a similar message today before I realized that you had sent one previously.
I've watched David grow for over 15 years now, and I've learned precious and eternally beneficial truths from his honest, studied and godly teaching.
Cliff, I thank God for you and for others who promote godly men and women who rightly divide the word of truth.
Thank you for being honest. Now Ill be honest in saying you did not answer a thing.
lmao I haven’t even watched the whole thing yet but am anticipating exactly what you said.
Numbers 32:11 “Surely none of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and above, shall see the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because they have not wholly followed Me.”
Deuteronomy 1:39 “Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.”
Was 20 the age from which God would consider a man accountable specific to the event (Promised land), to the people (Israel), to the time (3500 BC) or universal?
I’m not saying this is absolutely true, but this is an idea. And then some people say the age of 12 or 13 because that was the age of Jesus when he was in the temple.
The origin of the "age of accountability" comes mostly from Num 32:11, which states that none of the Israelites above twenty years old could enter the promised land.
Here's my own testimony. I was saved at 18. At my 20th birthday, I understood God was expecting of me something that He was not demanding before. I can't put it into full words. Those few days after my 20th birthday were a spiritual wake-up call and one of the major turning points in my Christian life. I would agree with the video that children are condemned if they die unsaved, but there is something about twenty years old that is significant in God's eyes. I should note that it was years later that I even heard there was an "age of accountability."
Nukepositive
Here’s a little something I put together with how i see original sin
Original Sin
Adam and Eve were not perfect, but innocent. They didn't have the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience didn't accuse them.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Once they knew they were naked, it was then wrong to be so.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
The knowledge of good and evil, given to us through Adam's sin, has caused all men to have a conscience which now accuses them before God.
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
This conscience, or law is what condemns us, which is sin.
1Jhn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Children do not have this knowledge of good and evil...
Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Although children do bad things, sin doesn't occur in their lives until they gain this knowledge which occurs in their youth.....
Jer 3:25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God.
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Jer 22:21 I spake unto thee in thy prosperity; but thou saidst, I will not hear. This hath been thy manner from thy youth, that thou obeyedst not my voice.
Children do not know they are naked, just as Adam and Eve didn't know, before they ate the fruit. Sin comes in progression, not in birth.....
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Let's look at a couple of verses, and then consider Cain.....
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Micah 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.
Now Cain...
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Observations....
Look what Peter says to the Gentiles……
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (See Deut 32:21, Hos 1:10 for Gentile evidence)
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
We went astray from God (from our youth) but have returned through Jesus Christ. The prodigal son is another good example of this. He was dead, but was alive AGAIN……
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Note that the elder son made a claim to have always served his father, unlike the younger who went astray to serve himself. His father didn't rebuke him but essentially confirmed his claim by telling him the entire inheritance was his.
The bible tells us that we must become like children to enter the kingdom of God…..
Matt 18;3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The , is that children are free from a conscience towards God. (knowledge of good and evil). We have our conscience purged through Christ....
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
1Jhn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
In Christ there is no law, no conscience of guilt to separate us from God. Just as a child has no knowledge of good and evil and feels no shame towards God, so do we in Christ.
God bless
Accountability and maturity are one and thing. The Bible does say about maturity.What is biblical accountability?
Accountability is about being responsible for fulfilling one's duties and obligations. ... Biblical accountability begins with taking responsibility for one's own actions and making a conscious choice of allowing God and others to help in accomplishing what is right.
In the Bible there are three stages of growth. Childhood from birth to maturity. From maturity two elderly from elderly to death. Threes all the three stages of maturity a child cannot take responsibility for his actions. With the parents help and discipline the child learns to take responsibility. At the age of 20 is the age of accountability is when the child is now mature and decides to act responsible. At the age of 50 the Bible calls them an old man or father. We will look at First John chapter 2: Reasons for Writing
12 ¶ I am writing to you, little children, since your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13 ¶ I am writing to you, fathers, because you have come to know the one who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have conquered the evil one.
14 ¶ I have written to you, children, because you have come to know the Father. I have written to you, fathers, because you have come to know the one who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, God’s word remains in you, and you have conquered the evil one.
The Levites were commanded to retire at the age of 50. What was the age of retirement for those who worked at the Tabernacle?
This passage says that at age 50, the Levites that have been working in the Tent of Meeting must retire from their regular service. This chapter in Numbers clearly elevated the significance of the Levites, and their work, their hard work in the Tabernacle. You could be drafted into Israel zombie at the age of 20 that’s when you were recognized as a young man and maturing. Numbers 1:45 So all the Israelites twenty years of age or older who could serve in Israel's army were counted according to their families. so we can see the age of accountability is at the age of 20. He is now responsible for his own actions is no longer under the guidance of his father or mother. It’s choices he makes he will be held accountable Ecclesiastes 11:9 (CSB) Rejoice, young person, while you are young, and let your heart be glad in the days of your youth. And walk in the ways of your heart and in the desire of your eyes; but know that for all of these things God will bring you to judgment. At the age of 20 the young man has a choice to obey the law and disobey the law. He will be judged. Here we see in Deuteronomy in a young man cannot be drafted into military service it was at least spent one year with his wife making him 21 years of age for military service.
Deuteronomy 24:5 (CSB) “When a man takes a bride, he must not go out with the army or be liable for any duty. He is free to stay at home for one year, so that he can bring joy to the wife he has married. The guy sees a young man from the age of 21 as mature enough to be drafted in military service. Here we see the service age of a Levite in three different descriptions in the Old Testament Numbers 4:3-How can the age for Levitical service be 30, when Numbers 8:24 says 25, and Ezra 3:8 says 20?
It makes sense that a child will not be working in the temple. What a young child will make a fool of themselves. So that Hass to be an age where a young man can be responsible for working in the temple. We are given three types found in numbers in Ezra
We are given an age of accountibility in the book of Numbers chapters 13 and 14. In the Torah, 13 goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, there is another age which is mentioned: . Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8) that 20 is also another societally significant age in the Torah.
I believe it is when a child hits puberty. In the Jewish tradition it is when a boy hit 13. When a person hits puberty the body changes and that is when the mind can think critically. Not as abstract as a child. It’s when the brain can choose and rule over the emotions. So everyone can hit puberty at different ages. When Jesus was 12 he went and began to get involved in asking question in the temple and interjecting his thoughts. I believe that we have to be careful when a child is young that the are to know about Jesus but are not capable of really understanding the concepts of salvation. A child uses more of their subconscious mind until puberty and that they are able to use more of their conscious mind. That is when he can think for himself when it comes to spiritual matters. If a child thinks he is saved before that he doesn’t have a real change of heart but trust the adult that has tod him. It is still important to teach about Christ until they hit puberty and then they can make a decision for Christ at that time.
Had to be 20 to pay the temple tax.. and also anyone under 20 could enter the promise land after the time their parents died off in the wilderness who were over 20 at the time they said they couldnt take the promise land so they were not allowed to enter ..
Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD, when you number them, so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED SHALL GIVE: HALF A SHEKEL ACCORDING TO THE SHEKEL OF THE SANCTUARY (THE SHEKEL IS TWENTY GERAHS), HALF A SHEKEL AS A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “EVERYONE WHO IS NUMBERED, FROM TWENTY YEARS OLD AND OVER, SHALL GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD. “THE RICH SHALL NOT PAY MORE AND THE POOR SHALL NOT PAY LESS THAN THE HALF SHEKEL WHEN YOU GIVE THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE LORD TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR YOURSELVES. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.”
Question Why only Israelites of years old and upward pay for a ramson/ atonement for sin?
If I'm understanding properly, that was the old testament & doesn't apply to the new testament that we live under
@@GodIsLove1John416 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”-- Galatians 3:13
“If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God) so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance.- Deuteronomy 21:22-23
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross (Tree)
- Acts 5:30
THE TRUE GOSPEL;
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
- 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
- Romans 6:1-11
For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
- 1 Peter 2:21-25
The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”
- Acts 8:34-36
And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
- Acts 8:38-39
Now, why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
- Acts 22:16
Look, at some point you begin to do what YOU want to do. Probably early. At some point you begin to do what you want to do in Rebellion against right versus wrong and don't care. You exercise your will to satisfy you, and you don't care about another will outside of yourself. You have decided, I am my own God.
“Let the little children come to me...”
Babies are innocent. Toddlers are innocent. Christ compared baptism to marriage. He commanded that we weigh the cost. Ask, how old before a young person is capable of making a life-long commitment. It’s different for each person which is why it isn’t spelled out. I’d imagine it’s somewhere in the teens for most people. Remember that “teenager” is a newer term in history. Historically“coming of age” occurred when a boy or girl became capable of having kids themselves.
Would it not be a gradual process of becoming accountable? As opposed to one day you are not accountable and the next day you are.
What about original sin?
What about Romans 5:12 - All people have died, because all people (including babies) have sinned?
What about Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death (infants die)?
Christians whose baptized infants die even hope and faith that their children are in heaven, because Scripture declares that baptism forgives sins (Acts 2:38), washes away sins (Acts 22:16), and Jesus cleanses His church by baptism (Eph. 5:26), etc.
I agree that all people (including babies) are guilty before God in Adam. Therefore, if God chooses to save babies it is just as much an act of Grace as if a fully developed person were to receive their salvation through faith in Jesus.
My confidence that God saves babies who die is anchored in the character of God who is loving and just. Romans 1:18-20 says that people are without excuse because enough of God and His character is revealed in creation to warrant condemnation. However, in the case infant mortality, they have an excuse because they were unable to comprehend the knowledge of God that Romans 1:18-20 says is enough to condemn.
My understanding of what scripture teaches about baptism is that it is our faith that saves us Ephesians 2:8-9. Baptism is merely an outward picture of an unseen spiritual reality that takes place when a person puts their faith in Jesus for their salvation. Therefore, I don't believe that it is baptism itself as an outward act that saves anyone, rather it is an unseen/spiritual baptism that takes place at the moment a person puts their faith in Jesus for their salvation.
Hello Michael,
Romans 1:18-20 is in the context of adults who claimed to be wise but became fools, and not infants.
Please tackle Original Sin, which is composed of two things: 1) hereditary guilt (Romans 5:18-19) and 2) hereditary corruption (Ps. 51:5 and John 3:6--the flesh here is not merely the body, but also of the soul as the context shows us).
Also, please tackle Romans 5:12 (all people, regardless of age), and Romans 6:23 (the cause of death is God's just wrath on sin, it's our wages). Death occurs, because of God's judgment on sin, if babies were not sinners then they wouldn't die (Ps 90:7-8).
On the one hand, we are saved solely by God's grace for Jesus sake alone (no contribution from us at all, otherwise salvation is no longer by grace, but grace plus works, i.e. by God's grace with my comprehension or decision), and on the other hand people and infants who do end up in the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth are there because of their sin.
- In short, God _alone_ is the cause, continuation, and end of our salvation; while, the Devil is the cause of sin (because he is the inventor of sin and seduced man), and we, ourselves, are the cause of sin (because we were brought forth in iniquity and conceived in sin--Ps 51:5--and we are not able to keep from sinning--Roman 8:7).
The moment we place our works, our comprehension, or anything as contributing or helping God in salvation (or keeping our salvation), we fall headlong into the old semi-pelagian heresy.
Before we can even do anything or comprehend anything, in _eternity_ God has elected, chosen, and called you and all believers to eternal life according to his own purpose and _grace_ in Christ Jesus, not because of works (2 Timothy 1:9).
Baptism is great means of salvation, along with the Word, and the Lord's Supper/Eucharist. We can talk about that later (one of the means of grace or tools, which God uses to save people), once we finish talking about original sin.
shogunshogun sadly I don’t have time in my life to continue an online discussion like this. So this will be my last comment.
I agree that the context of Rom 1:18-20 is not directly adressing infants. Admittedly there is very little scripture to go on to build a case for an age of accountability. The context of Romans is Paul’s exposition of the Gospel to believers in Rome. Verses 18-20 simply convey that general revelation is sufficient to condemn.
I’m with you on original sin (guilt & corruption). I’m also with you that God is the beginning and end of salvation and has elected, chosen, & called believers according to his purpose & grace.
Where we differ is on baptism and the Lord’s supper as a means of salvation. I assume you hold to an “infused” righteousness through sacraments as opposed to an imputed righteousness by faith alone. I believe the means of salvation is God’s effectual calling through the preaching of his word. Baptism & the Lord’s supper are therefore not a means of justifying grace. They don’t contribute to our salvation but are things saved people do.
I sense we will have to agree to dissagree here.
Life has been busy for me so I wasn't able to respond sooner.
We differ in at least two points: original sin and the efficacy of God's Word to do what it says it does.
We aren't in the same page on original sin, because the age of accountability is against original sin--original sin and the age of accountability cannot both be true, at least one of them is false (hint: the unscriptural doctrine of the age of accountability). They are mutually exclusive doctrines in regards to one another.
Original sin says that we are born spiritual dead, we are by nature children of God's wrath; but, the age of accountability says that we are not born spiritually dead, because we can use our reason to decide to believe Christ's work of salvation for all people.
Can a dead man decide to breathe? No it can't; a spiritually dead person has as much power to decide to believe in Christ and His atoning work as corpse has power to decide to breathe.
The age of accountability doesn't take original sin seriously, and ultimately it ignores original sin.
I don't hold to a belief of infused righteousness/infused grace (_gratia_ _infusa_).
Also, we differ in viewing God's Word as efficacious.
(I know that you wrote that you are busy to write another comment, but this is more so for others who have similar beliefs as you currently hold) How do you know that is only through the preaching of His word that we are saved?
I know and believe that not only does God uses His Word, specifically the Gospel, but He also uses Baptism and the Lord's Supper to save us.
Baptism takes place for the forgiveness of sins, to wash away sins (Acts 2:38; 22:16). God's Word says that there is salvation in baptism, i.e. the water with the Word forgives sins.
In the Lord's Supper, Christ Himself gives His body and sheds His blood for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 22:19-20; Matt. 26:26-28). God's Word says that there is salvation in the Lord's Supper, i.e. the bread and the wine with Christ's true body and blood forgives sins.
I do not disagree with original sin. I do not see belief in an age of accountability (AOA) at odds with original sin. I think you misunderstand AOA.
I’ve given up debating this point with you since it is clear that you do not hold to a classical christian understanding of the application of justification to sinners. I thought that maybe you could be arguing from a Roman Catholic position which is why I thought you held to an infused righteousness. Since you deny infused righteousness, I am truly confused by your belief system. It is neither Roman Catholic nor classically Protestant. I’d be curious to know where you received your theological training as I am unfamiliar with any classically christian, biblical scholar who would argue the points you have here.
For the benefit of others who may read this thread, neither baptism or the Lord’s supper are salvific and this is very clear in scripture. The verses that Shogunshogun cites in support of his claims are misinterpreted. If they mean what he claims they mean, then they would be in direct contradiction to Romans chapters 1-5, Ephesians 2:8-10, and others. Scripture will never contradict itself. When there is an apparent contradiction between passages, one of them does not mean what you may think it means at first.
Baptism does not save anyone. For a well articulated biblical support visit the following article:
www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html
The Lord’s Supper also does not save anyone. Jesus’ discussion of this in John 6:22-63 is very clear that Jesus was speaking in spiritual terms and not literal.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith [not baptism or the Lord’s Supper]. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works [like baptism or the Lord’s Supper], so that no one may boast [like you would be able to if we were saved by participation in baptism or the Lord’s supper]." Ephesians 2:8-9
Numbers 14:29 your corpses will fall in this wilderness, even all your numbered men, according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me. 30 ‘Surely you shall not come into the land in which I swore to settle you, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31‘Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32’But as for you, your corpses will fall in this wilderness.
Joshua and Caleb were the only ones that were over 20 years of age that made it to the promised land.
In the Torah, 13 goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, there is another age which is mentioned: 20 years old. Twenty years of age is mentioned as an age at which people are counted in the national census in Exodus 30:11-16, Numbers 1:1-3, and Numbers 26:1-4. Also, we see in the vows offerings (Leviticus 27:1-8) that 20 is also another societally significant age in the Torah.
Read Numbers chapters 13 and 14 those that were 20 years old;
Exodus 30 the giving of
money for a ransom of sins
Numbers 1:3-45, serving in the military
Numbers 14:28-30 Punishment for disobedience those 20 years and upward, not permitted into the promised land. Read chapters 13 and 14 of the book of Numbers. (Those twenty years old and upward accountable for actions/sin)
In the books of the Law (Torah) the age of 13 goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age.
Numbers 26:3-4 Counted the in the census, The age of accountability is 20 years old under the Old-Covenant and the New-Covenant unless somewhere the lord the His age of accountability.
Not one time in the New Covenant writings does one child get immersed into Christ Jesus.
Children are without sin in the eyes of the Lord.
Amen!!!
I’m sure it’s the equivalent
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
"Gotcha. I'm gonna be a pregnant male."
Age of accountability is proven in the book of Numbers 14:29 Your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness, and all that were numbered if you according to your whole number, from 20 years old and upward which have murmured against me
Let, s reason for a minute there are 366 days in the year 2020, if the age of accountability is 20 then how do you think God is going to judge someone who dies this year at 19 years and 365 days? I doubt God would use our human reasoning of age laws. I think it woul depend on the person. I believe when a child is somewhere between 15 and 18 he or she could be held accountable for his or her sins.
@@novusrex9809 the judgment fallen the parents or the forefathers
@@hauahmisshellychaitram6547 like when you, re under 20? I get why soldiers where over the 20. When you are a male in you, re a male in you, re early 20,s that, s when you, re body becomes that of a full grown men, and you, re in a great position for combat. So before you turn 20 you, r parents get to be blamed for your sins? Is that what you're saying? Cause I don't think I fully understand you. BTW sorry if the grammar is a bitt off.
Not to forget in the ancient Hebrew lunar calendar one year would only contain 354 meaning :354x20=7080 days. A solar year contains 365 days and every 4 years there is a leap year od 366 days.
(365x16) =5840+(366x4)=1464
=7304 224 days langer then the ancient Hebrew calendar what would bring there years, to ours 19 years and 4 to months.
After researching I believe 20 is the age of maturity. Like you, re now considerd 100 % accountable foe your deeds in the eyes of God. When Paul speaks about passing the flower of her age he was probably referring to the ancient Greek standard of maturity which was years old. Scientists now know that it takes 20 to 25 years for a person to fully mature
Could the age of accountability be applied to those who have no means of hearing about Jesus. Say for instance North Koreans who have much limited acces compared to us?
No, general revelation
It would still apply to them it’s in our nature like we know right from wrong no one has to tell us that killing someone is bad we know that it’s bad. And we can see the existence of God in everything around us and people in North Korea still get told about the Gospel yes it is harder to tell other about it over there but they have underground churches it’s incredible because the members each memorize a book of the Bible because it’s too dangerous to have a Bible over there
Jesus loves you and died so you can have eternal life. Repent and turn to Him because He is coming soon! He loves you
Jesus says "let the little children come to me." And He says "you must become as a child to enter into the kingdom of heaven." The Bible might indicate that the age of accountability was the age a young Israelite boy matures into military age at 20. Though this is an implication, nothing explicit, it is a question worthy to ask.
I think it would be 13 , because this is the start of teenage years , cause children can not understand as much as teenagers do. My brother at age 8 knew that he did something wrong and knew my dad will punish him so he prayed that God will help him and not let my dad punish him. He understood what is wrong and right because we told him it was wrong but before doing it he did not know. So at age 13 the child will have had a better understanding of right and wrong , they will start thinking in a different way and understand that they can not anymore act as children.
Even in our world if a person is still under 18 and commits a crime , they will be judged and then be sent to prison when they reach the age of 18. So age 20 is not the age of accountability.
People have had near death experiences or visions of hell where 9 year old were there.
@@lydiacoronado4257 maybe God wanted to use these children for sending a message through their experience ? or near death experience to show His power and might to even get someone back from the dead ? maybe God would judge children but I don't think He would send them to hell , they are very innoceant at this age and just say and do what is on their heart , once I watched a video about a teenager who says that God gave her a vision of hell and heaven , and she said that she saw in hell a child of 8 years old , and the reason is that he refused to obey his parents and did not care for spiritual things , I cant remember in details but she did say something about church and obeying his parents , but disobeying is part of their childhood , they still can not understand exactly why they have to obey , so it seems this was a false teaching , 8 years old in hell ? at 8 years old , I couldnt even understand why I had to accept Jesus in my heart and life , I saw that I did not do big sins , so no need to be saved , it is still our brain developing at such age..
Kids hit puberty before 13 so I don't think so
So your 8 year old brother knew better if he was praying to god.
Why 20 years and upward? Numbers 32:11 'None of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob; for they did not follow Me fully,
Yes! A satisfactory answer is found (yes, in scripture, but not a 5 minute sound bite). The video titled "Age of Accountability: The Answer | Bible Questions & Answers" from Pastor-Lawyer David Reid of Columbus OH
@@CliveChamberlain946 you may want to get rid of your honorific titles in front of your name. "Pastor " is derived from the latin and is functional term.
@@spiritjoerr7508 Right you are again brother! I only use that when I suspect I am speaking to people within "churchianity" at large (besides I am not a sheep). I normally prefix preacher Joe etc..
MacArthur did a sermon on "the age of accountability", he made the point that it's more of the "condition of accountability" not age. We in the Reformed Faith understand that babies go straight back to God upon death, but in the case of a 25 year old with the mind of a 5 year old, you can't honestly say that God would "send them to Hell". "A hundred and twenty thousand people who don't know their left hand from the right" is only referring to 2 kinds of people, babies/small children, or mentally retarded people.
I'm a security officer, and just yesterday I watched as a little girl (maybe about 4) disobeyed her father and refused openly that she would not put the toy back, when asked by her father to put it back she said "No!" Firming standing her position with a stiff body, "Put the toy back, please." - "No!". She began to chew the toy and then threw the toy to the ground. Her father gave in after the toy was thrown and brought it for her. This little girl will be fully accountable before God. The bible doesn't mention age accountability because there isn't such a thing as age accountability except that before salvation, we are all guilty in Adam.
Joshua Crisp amen my brother. Philosophy is not scripture.
A 4 year old child doesnt know better. Im sure the age is 13.
Victoria Cabrera A 4 year old child knows well enough to obey a parent's instruction. The defiant "NO!" breaks the 5th Commandment. The breaking of God's moral law is SIN and the wages of SIN is death -- both physical and spiritual. A 4 year old sinning child IS accountable and needs salvation just as much as the 75 year old unrepentant sinner. Where in Scripture did you read that sin before the age of 13 isn't accountable? Be sure you didn't find it anywhere in the Holy Bible but perhaps, by your own faulty reasoning or from someone else who preached/taught such nonsense.
Joshua Crisp That would be the parents fault for not teaching Gods truth to his child.
Lol @ ur confident speculation
Psalm 51:5. I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me..That's your answer. This is why most parents in Christianity have historically brought their children to be baptized as infants, as Peter commands in Acts 2: let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and and for all those far off, for all that the Lord our God will call. (There's no age requirement listed here notice)
The Holy Spirit comes to reside in a person at the moment of faith that is initiated by God. A baby getting baptized is not going to initiate faith, nor does water baptism save a person. The Bible is clear that those who confess and believe are children of God. Furthermore, the baptism being talked in that verse has to do with spirit baptism. Remember, Jesus said that John baptized of water, but He baptizes with the spirit.
The Scripture is quite clear regarding this issue:
What about the spiritual condition of those who have never heard the gospel message? (infants, the severely mentally challenged, and the heathen)
Biblical truth #1. All people (including infants, the severely mentally challenged, and the heathen) are lost sinners and in need of salvation
Psalm 14:3 All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.
Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Psalm 143:2 Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you.
Proverbs 20:9 Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin"?
Eccles. 7:20 There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
Romans 3:9-12 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Ephesians 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
Biblical truth #2. There is no salvation without faith in Christ
John 3:18 Whoever BELIEVES in him is not condemned, but whoever does not BELIEVE stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:36 Whoever BELIEVES in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
Acts 16:30-31 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
They replied, "BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
Romans 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have FAITH in Jesus.
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by FAITH apart from observing the law.
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who CALLS on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
Biblical truth #3. There is no faith in Christ, and therefore no salvation, without first hearing the gospel message
Acts 11:13-14 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, 'Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.'
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Acts 18:9-10 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: "Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city."
Romans 10:9-17 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
SUMMARY: No conversion--no salvation! No exceptions!
Hearing of the gospel, and subsequent conversion (faith & repentance) are absolutely essential to salvation. All of the elect must hear the gospel and believe it--there are no exceptions.
Hey man, you do know God loves us, right?
Exactly.
Liberal Christians just pick and choose verses to make them feel better. They think that American kids go to heaven but non Americans who never heard of Jesus go strait to hell. How convenient.
@@trailerwager8850 yeah these are the type people that caused atheists to stay atheists
Read First John chapter 12:12-15 "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
Sounds like a Calvinist theory to me
Nehemiah 8 covers accountability. In that it says men, women and all those who could hear and understand. While it is talking about the law, the law is explained by Jesus in the gospels not being destroyed but fulfilled.
Surely, if there is an age of accountability that means we are not born sinful? Otherwise, children could go to heaven without having their sin resolved by faith in Jesus or it means that we only become sinful after this age, not needing regeneration before it.
GOD said i will have mercy on who i will have mercy
Correct. We aren’t born sinful. Christ the Lord said little children are alive in Him because of His mercy. The curse of Adam is taken from them in Jesus Christ.
@@russellbennett1477 yes, but surely offersvmercy based on faith in Jesus and repentance.
@@Aaron-Miller-1138 but isn't the whole idea that we are sinful because of the curse of Adam and only those who believe in Jesus and repent are forgiven?
@@aidanbenbow6682 Yes, we sin because of the fall. Before the fall of Adam and Eve they didn’t sin because they were innocent. Because they couldn’t sin they knew no misery and because they knew no misery they knew no joy. Since they were like little children they couldn’t obey the commandment from God to multiply and replenish the Earth. Adam and Eve fell that man might be. And because of the fall, they had children. That’s why we’re here now. And we can sin when we’re old enough, and since we sin, the Lord God provided us a Savior. And that Savior is Jesus Christ the Son of God. Yes, those who repent and call upon God in the name of Christ with faith are forgiven through His atonement. 🙂
Luke 12:46-48 KJV
[46] The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. [47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Is there a doctrine of guilty in adam
No. This is a falsehood. Adam made a mistake but he knew God himself. He walked with God. Without speaking for God; Adam felt shame and guilt. As do I. Knowing the truth and rejecting it is so bad. Guilt comes from knowing and not acknowledging.
I have never studied this to any great degree but assume these verses may be where the idea of all humanity being born with a sin nature stems from 1 Corinthians 15: 21-22, Psalm 51: 5. Probably others that can be referred to also.
It's when you know Right from Wrong
Good & Bad .
20 years old;
Exodus 30:13-14, Giving of money
Numbers 1:3-45, serving in the military
Numbers@-30 (need to read chapters 13 and 14 fully) Punishment for disobedience
Numbers 26:3-4 Counted in the census
I think those 8-19 are held accountable just not as strictly as those 20+
@ the book of Katie?
@@spiritjoerr7508 i had a dream and i was only 11 or 12 about the rapture and I was indeed left behind 🤷♀️
And i think in my own opinion those 7 or under are truly innocent and are saved but those 8+ are held accountable
@ Your opinion has nothing to do with scripture sorry.
@ i would love to be proved wrong and it actually is 20+ and yes im aware my opinion has nothing to do with the scripture
I believe God holds people accountable based on their moral awareness and ability to reason which comes with age, not with a specific manmade age. Age in years is just a measurement that humans use to simplify things. God doesn’t need to simplify things as he is an omnipotent and omniscient being.
Scriptural Age of Accountability
Is child baptism Scriptural? At what age does the Bible consider one an adult, and a candidate for imWhat is the minimum age for baptism into Yahshua’s Name? The Apostle Peter clearly showed that one should be old enough to repent. When the Jews were convicted of their sin, they asked what they should do. Peter responded in Acts 2:38, "Repent and be immersed every one of you in the Name of Yahshua the Messiah for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Obviously a person should be old enough to understand repentance before being baptized. What does the Bible mean by "repent?" Briefly, to turn completely from our wicked ways, stop doing those things that Yahweh condemns, and obediently follow in the footsteps of Yahshua. We are to be totally broken up over our past sins and vow not to repeat those things we know are wrong and sinful. When we do sin, we are to confess our sin and ask forgiveness through Yahshua.
Jews Hold Bar-Mitzvah at 13
Luke chapter 2 relates how Yahshua was left behind by His parents in Jerusalem following the Passover and the days of Unleavened Bread. He was about age 13, and even today Jewish boys have a ceremony known as "Bar-Mitzvah," meaning Son of the Covenant, when they are accepted into the congregation. Is 13 the age of accountability, the age when one can with complete understanding repent and then be immersed?
Some groups immerse young people at the early age of 10 or 12. It is difficult to find Biblical justification to immerse at that age. Let us continue considering other examples and alternatives.
The Savior Himself did not begin His ministry until He was 30 years of age, right after His baptism. Early on, the priests began their service at age 30 as well.
Surely at 30 one is mature and responsible for one’s behavior. Most of us would wonder whether at 30 too many years have already passed before making a commitment to Yahweh. Does the Bible speak of a younger age?
Differing Ages of Maturity
At what age does Yahweh deem us accountable for our actions? The Bible speaks of babes not knowing their left hand from their right. We are also encouraged to be children in attitude and men in understanding. There is an age when Yahweh considers children no longer children, but at the acceptable age of understanding.
Yahweh recognizes that a youth has limitations, as in the following example regarding large amounts: "And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child [lad] may write [record] them." (Isa. 10:19) A young child would be limited in his grasp of large quantities. This indicates that we comprehend progressively more as we mature in understanding and discernment, which should be obvious to all.
Admittedly there are those who mature in the Bible at a young age who realize well beyond their years the seriousness and the importance of baptism. There are also some who even at the age of 30 have not reached a proper level of maturity.
So what conclusion can we come to? Thankfully, the Bible does indeed give us an age in which one is considered accountable for what one does.
Yahweh’s Assembly in Yahshua understands Scripturally that upon reaching the age of 20, Yahweh accepts one as being mature and an adult, therefore responsible for one’s actions. Let us now look at Scriptural support for the age of 20 in Yahweh's dealings with Israel .
20 is way to old people know full well what they are doing well before the age of 20,. I just seen a video were a 16 year old young man executed 4 people in philly in cold blood. your going to tell me that he was not mature enough to know that such a evil horrendous wicked act was not wrong? how about the group of 14-16 year old young men who visciously raped a woman and forced her to give her own son oral sex. Your going to tell me that those young men were not mature enough to know such a evil horrendous wicked act that was not wrong? How about the teenage females under 18 who are physical and mentally capable of haveing sex getting pregnant and give birth without no complications. Your going to tell me they were not mature enough to know what they were doing .? when obvious they were physically and mentally mature enough to do such things. Its amazing how humans blatantly turn a blind eye to the truth and deliberatly put teenager on the same level as biological children , knowing full well that it is a big diffrence between the 2. But you know I expect blatant lying and truth denying from humans. But to see that comeing from religion itself im shocked.
Who paid for attonement of sin? Exodus 30:11-16 The LORD also spoke to Moses, saying, “When you take a census of the sons of Israel to number them, then each one of them shall give a ransom for himself to the LORD, when you number them, so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. “You shall take the atonement money from the sons of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may be a memorial for the sons of Israel before the LORD, to make atonement for yourselves.”
The age of accountability is not in the Bible but the age is is no age but I know I thing if your child knows right from wrong then they can go too hell but I don't know we're they gonna go I have children my 8 year old daughter understand Jesus she prays everyday with me
:Leviticus 27:1-8
Yes, it is in the book of numbers chapter 13 and 14 only those 20 years old and upward were held accountable...
A 6 year old or even 8 year old won't go to hell if they die I believe age of accountability starts around 13
The age of accountability is eight years and up.
"CHILDREN obey your parents that you may have a long life"! It's EARLIER than many of you think!
We have to hold our SELVES accountable... and seek out the truth.
As soon as you know right and wrong you have reached the age of accountability
12 years ,ask the HOLYSPIRIT
sLeviticus 27:1-8
Age of Accountability - Akin to corban, a man made law.
The following is the best article on what Scripture teaches about infant salvation. Please copy and paste the title into your browser:
A Scriptural Review and Response to John MacArthur's Safe in the Arms of God: Truth from Heaven About the Death of a Child
Sin is much dependent on will, if someone actively wants to go against what God said. A child I believe if does wrong does with no mean intention to hurt, and God is good and merciful. If a parent can forgive a child's mistake God sure can as well.
------- first of these videos I have watched where the apologist actually did approach giving an honest answer - which was: there is NO place in scripture where such a concept is given or even really implied. About the closest one could come in scripture would be during the supposed Exodus where everyone ABOVE the age of 20 wasn't allowed to pass into the "Promised Land" and the Hebrews had to wander ( actually they mostly just camped-out [ 38 years ] at Kadesh-barnea ) for 40 years in the wilderness till all the older generations died off. The entire concept of "age of accountability" is foreign to the OT - keep in mind we are told we are ALL born with 'original sin' and are corrupt from birth - and YHWH frequently murders children and infants ( first born of Egypt, the entire families of the followers of Korah, and the newborn son of David and Bathsheba are good examples )
When they leave their fathers home willingly. Or become rebellious and uncontrollable at home.
Great
I always thought "Baptist"..a sin of a child is upon its mother until age 13
What About the Jewish teaches of 12 and 13 year's old. Bar Mitzvahs. At 12. And 13. That is the supposed age. And CATHOLIC church does about 12 and AMISH DO AFTER 16 LIKE 18. SO ?????
The Scripture has given us Leads/proofs of the age of accountability, being 1/10th of the life of a man. In Isaiah 65:20 KJV, the context being the Millennial kingdom of 1000 years, it states that a child is so till the age of 100 at which time he would be held accountable as a sinner if he has yet to believe, and be accursed. Since there is not death in the Millennium, for it will be under Edenic conditions, everyone will be able to live till the end. Presently, the Bible speaks of man life span be about 70 years of age. 1/10th of 70 is 7, the same ratio in both ages, the present evil age and the age to come (Millennium), accountable today at ~ 7 years of age.
God doesn’t send children to hell. That is the silliest theory I have ever heard
@@gavinbeard4026 try again, God does not send the INNOCENT to hell, as would be those with mental retardation, autism, or under the age of accountability, etc. Perhaps you overlooked Isaiah 14:19-22 [speaking about the Serpent seed line, as were all of the Canaanites of Sodom & Gomorrah] the seeds (descendants) to be destroyed, “prepare slaughter for his children”, to whom resurrection will not apply. Tell GOD that you find his words/ways ‘silly’, not me. What I do see is that you neither know nor understand what is meant in Isaiah 65 on the matter.
@@josefernandez-leon4024 I’m talking about how 8 year olds can be sent to hell is silly. Have you ever met an 8,9, 10 year old? If not they know right from wrong as everybody does from a young age though what they don’t know is why it’s wrong or right and the lasting consequences of certain actions. I don’t think it’s silly to say God doesn’t sent children to hell I think it’s silly that you think 8 year olds are sent to hell
@@gavinbeard4026 Paul speaks in Romans 7:7-11, how sin first entered into his life, was by THE COMMAND to believe in the Creator (God created all things by His Son, JC). Before then he was innocent till the commandment came, sin revived and he died (spiritually, slayed by sin). What do you think that means? A chronological age. And also speaks that ALL MANKIND is guilty before GOD, no exceptions, when the Lord holds the person no longer innocent. It is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL that is IN SIGHT HERE (Rev 14:6). For in that He died for all was because ALL ARE GUILTY [2Cor 5:14,15 KJV]. All are guilty by the same rule, no different. All are saved by the same gift of Faith, “THE FAITH” OF JC. God foreknew before the foundation of the world who in time would believe in His Son, for none were ‘in Christ’ nor were placed ‘in Christ’ by GOD at the foundation of the world. My initial thread was about the consistency in the word of GOD, comparing what we know today with that which Isaiah wrote in 65:20. It is your mind that thinks that the Lord would send an 8 year old “ to Hell”outside a context. Five times in my life I was on the verge of getting killed or dying but did not perish, now 30 years later I know why, He physically saved me then in that He knew I would believe. Would He not do that for anyone else? Surely He does. How about the seed of the Serpent? Did you read Isaiah 14, how the Lord will destroy the children of the devil? Problem is most seem to think that all written in Genesis ch 1-11 is myth or symbolic, while it is literal. Yet God speaks of the Seed of Cain, the very son of Lucifer the Serpent (Satan) and most fail to see where it all is in the Bible. One cannot let the “professors” in Seminary dictate how to hermeneutically understand. Were there children in Sodom & Gomorrah? Did not all die? YES, SERPENT SEED, an illicit line that Scripture says He will wipe off the face of the earth at Armageddon. Did GOD not have even the children of the Canaanites (Serpent seeds) killed when Joshua conquered the land killed? Are there not 2 lines today, of the 2 Seeds in Conflict in this world? As written in Genesis 3:15? Yes, the seed of the woman, JC vs the seed of the Serpent, Cain who is the devil and will be the AntiChrist. My point in all these, is that your conclusion fails to understand, for calling what the Scripture says ‘silly’ [did you even read Isaiah 14?] or put words on my mouth that I have not said nor written is equivocating. Where did I say that GOD would send 8 year olds to Hell? Is that not all what you concluded in your mind according to the framework of understanding you embrace? Apparently I must not even have met 8,9,10 year olds while I have lived on this earth. Ask first and conclude when you are given an answer.
Doesn't God judge people on what they know
Not necessarily. Because you can know the right things to do and not do them
Jesus started his ministry at age 30. That would be my answer.
Jesus loves you!!!!!
Hi
I think it's 20 or 25
Some use Jewish tradition as a reference point.The tradition of the Bar or Bat Mitzvah which determines that when a child enters his or her adolescence, it is then that they are responsible for their moral decisions & behavior.I honestly don't know if that's truly the Biblical approach but I've seen cases where Christian families follow that belief (not necessarily the celebration of it)& use it as an imperative to bring their children up in the admonition of the Lord as early as is reasonable.That,probably is the best way to deal with this issue.
jLeviticus 27:1-8
The age of accountability is 12 or 13 because 12 or 13 are the ages that people become adults and 12 or 13 are the ages that people in Biblical times were considered to become adults.
The age of accountability is actually 8
@@peace2033 No it's not.
@@johnm84 2 Chronicles 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
@@peace2033that doesn't mean he was accountable
Exodus and Numbers says age of accountability is 20 years old and older!!!
There were lots of words... but a whole lot of nothing more.
The age of accountability has so little biblical grounds that its actually astounding that it is treated like a serious doctrine. That said, it should be recognized that only the most callous and hard hearted legalist would demand damnation for infants based on the doctrine of original sin. The fact is Charles Spurgeon preached an entire sermon on infant damnation and its available online. It is devoid of scripture but absolutely filled with an appeal to the beauty and kindness of God. That is the only basis upon which this belief is built. And thats actually not a bad thing.
Lets say a family in an unreached village is raising their children in the devout Hindu tradition. Their son just turned six and is offering prayers and incense at the temple because all he knows is the Hindu gods. He is guilty of idolatry and graven images.
At age 6 years 5 months he and his father die of an infectious disease. Does God accept a 6 year old idolator into heaven but send the father to hell? If so, how do you explain that scripturally?
If God does not accept him into heaven then the age of accountability is out the window and we have no basis with which to believe any child can escape judgement on original sin.
On what basis does God forgive them?
You may say that God bases his forgiveness on the childs ignorance. Its not their fault because they were raised that way. Well guess what, so were his parents. The father is illiterate and farms for a living. The mother has no education and makes rugs and raises children. And until now no one has told them any different about God. So are you prepared to say God will distinguish between a 6 year olds idolatrous ignorance and a 25 year olds idolatrous ignorance simply because of a 19 year difference in age?
How do you support that scripturally?
The creator of a quadrillion billion galaxies cannot abide by the inconvenient fact that a human has never heard of His son Jesus therefore his son Kadeem must burn in hell forever? Or are we prepared to accept that the God who created the quantum universe will send a child to heaven but send his father to hell when there is no difference between them except 19 infinitesimal circles around the sun?
Would you do that? Are you kinder than God or is God kinder than any of us could imagine? How could the God of a trillion stars be so helpless to avert the kind of tragedy our traditional theology of hell seems to paint for mankind?
All of this is rectified by the universal salvation of Jesus Christ.
All these questions are put to rest by the love of Jesus. Those he died for, He will have. Jesus died for all. Hindu father and Hindu child.
Not that their Hinduism is a path to God at all, Hinduism kept them in the dark. God wants them to live in the light. Thanks to Jesus Christ they will.
Universalism is heresy.
Jason Turner Feel free to worship your monster God. I will worship the God who calls himself Love.
Mark Deckard Listen to a sermon by John MacArthur, called “What Happens to Babies Who Die?” It’s a 3 part series, but part 2 has the most scriptural proofs in it. I was pleasantly surprised how many scriptural proofs there are. Peace.
It's not an "age" of accountability, it's a "level" of accountability based on the ability to mentally comprehend the issues. Some adults for example never develop the mental capacity to understand enough to be be culpable for their actions.
That said, Luther and others have noted the ability of infants to be able to believe based on John the Baptists response of "leaping in the womb" when Mary, pregnant with Christ entered the house. Faith is a gift of God, however we have no way of knowing what God considers faith in infants to be.
So says the Calvinist.
Or you can baptize them into faith as the church historically has done and get around all these mental gymnastics.
Baptizing a baby DOES NOTHING!
What about special needs people?
If they dont have the ability understand then they are blameless.
Kristina still sinful and worthy of judgement, only Christ Alone was and is blameless. What you said is unbiblical atleast and worst blasphemous
@@thereisnopandemic how can a person who cant comprehend sin be held accountable? They dont understand sin. Do you know anyone like that?
Blameless and sinless are 2 different things, my oldest brother has a severe form of Autism, he's been in a special care home since he was 9 years old because he couldn't control his behavior and was biting everyone, it's under control now. The point is that he can't be responsible for his actions the same way an infant can't. Ultimately he is a God that will do which is right, and that's all we need to know when it comes to that question!
@@kylekenney4758 sin isn't about your actions, you are simply a sinner by default.
I think there might be a clue as a bar mitzbah age permits. Could be worth considering.
answer; n the Torah, 13 goes unmentioned entirely as a significant age. However, there is another age which is mentioned: .
For something so critical you would think that the Bible would address it clearly. Here’s a curve ball, what if the churches doctrine of eternal torment is wrong? What if the wages of sin IS actual death, ceasing to exist, back to dust. Check out the second death...
I believe Jesus spoke against this. He spoke on he’ll multiple times and of course the wages of sin is death (separation from life aka God) . I believe there are degrees in hell. But none of them good of course
Eternal torment seems to be for a select few (satan, false prophet, beast, fallen angels, and perhaps those who take the mark of the beast), as far as it seems to be seen). All the other unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire but they burn up and become ash and are no more.
It’s not that hard y’all. God’s word is clear. It’s all throughout Exodus and Numbers saying 20 years old and upward.
Amen!!!
The age of accountability, reading the gospel of nicodemus in Jesus’s visiting hades and in that gospel everyone goes to the underworld. Hades is where everyone goes after they dead.The Greeks thought too that people went to the underworld. Even Jesus thought that there was a underworld from the parable Of the rich and Lazarus going to Abraham busin
How can this person speaking say that there are no verses in the Bible regarding age of accountability when it is clearly in Exodus and Numbers????
20 years old and older!!
Those verses don't say you are excused from sin until you're 20. The age of accountability isn't biblical. It's a product of low church protestants. Infant baptism is biblical. You must be washed of original sin.
My opinion is 25 years of age is the answer.
Heres how I got it...in science they said the brain is fully matured at age 25. And the little boy who died, went to Heaven, and came back said his dead Uncle was 25 up there in Heaven. He pointed out pictures of his uncle when he was 25. So yeah it's 25 for me. I remember myself coming to true adulthood when I was 25. TRUE adulthood.
I doubt there would be any set age for accountability because chronological age is nothing but a worldly measurement used by humans. God is beyond any human constructed measurements. God would hold people accountable based on their moral awareness and ability to reason which comes with age rather than a set age. This covers special needs people and the truth that people mature at different rates.
@@truthteller9522 I became a Christian at 18. Besides NDE have not been proven. Just because you're not fully done developing doesn't mean that you can't comprehend. The age of accountability is like a little child and he messes up but he is unaware of the problems of his actions. Is the father to scream at him and spank him for something the child can not comprehend. When you're 7 you can probably start to understand implications of your actions. But we are all different and develop at different rates. Could be 7 for someone and then could be never for someone who say has autism or a mental handicap even though they are 52 years old. God will judge us fairly.
@@truthteller9522 I don't think it is that old, but I do think that for men, something "clicks" around age 25. For me, it was like a greater understanding or awareness of the way the world works, less gullibility, and greater mental maturity. I'm almost 46 now, but I distinctly remember being 25 and all of a sudden feeling more mature and aware with less of a desire to do immature things.
Bad church doctrine leads to questions like this one. Look, nobody goes to heaven or hell when they die regardless of their age. Moreover, there is no such thing as endless torment for anybody, young or old. The church needs to just teach what the Bible says and leave the fairy tales to the comic books.
@@dianashepherd3241 *" scripture talks more about hell than it does about heaven!"* You are mistaken Diana. The Bible talks about hades (OT)/sheol (NT) and Gehenna, yes. And I realize that some Bibles (not all) translate those three words as "hell" but none of them represents a place of eternal conscious torment.