10 Games We DISAGREE On
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- #boardgames #top10
We honestly don't disagree on much. Especially not games. We play most of our games together, and we have extremely similar taste in games. But nonetheless there are a few games that we disagree on!
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I'm with Mike on Tapestry. I think it might be because I forget that I'm trying to win and I'm just trying to do as many things as possible. It's just an enjoyable experience for me.
Same. I just kind of enjoyed the assymetry of it, even if it didn't always feel fair. It's a surprisingly breezy experience for how heavy it seems on the surface.
I also agree, Tapestry is just fun to combo things and squeeze as much juice out of each age as you can. then play it next time and have a completely different asymetric power and tapestry cards to have a very different play this time.
Mike is right, Tapestry is great. My group loves Quacks but I have horrible luck. Bag full of great chips and I draw nothing but white. There aren’t enough rat tails to give me hope. Cool game, wish I wasn’t cursed.
Yeah the curse can run deep in Quacks
I love this idea for a video! One thing I tend to do is rely too much on other peoples reviews/tastes rather than enjoy what I actually want to enjoy. sometimes people need permission to like what they like.
we definitely all do that and it's a great thing to remember. We all have permission to do and play what we like!
That's what's great about games, is everyone's opinion is different!
I'm with Mike, I see Tapestry's flaws but I enjoy the gameplay so much
Right????
I absolutely love Cooper Island but my wife thinks it's way too complicated for how few points you score. She would play Meadow every day and I'm fine with it while I'm playing but realize after that it always just plays itself and has the same kind of experience.
Now on Martin Wallace, I'm not usually drawn to his games, and have never tried Brass. But this past year I played two that I absolutely enjoyed and purchased. AuZtralia, was just popcorn movie type fun. and Anno 1800 was surprisingly fun for our entire group. I will definitely be more open to trying more of his designs.
Tapestry solo is actually not bad. Really easy upkeep - just flip a card and bump a track. I've played it a number of times and it was really fun trying to break the 300 point score.
aight maybe I gotta try it again
@@TheBrothersMurph I think it's more fun for me just exploring the different factions and what jives with them. I think it is of the ilk of Root and Spirit Island in that you have to unlock the strategies to truly enjoy it.
Jeff and I have a series about this because we disagree a lot 😂 but the standout for us is Agricola.. Jeff LOVES it and I call it Agrico-blah.. so if thats any indicator haha
That’s awesome we gotta catch up on that series!
as a long time league of legends player and lover of pirates & minis - rum & bones lands well for me. There are folks that do get frustrated by the dice but i love them and the bits and pirates and fighting. Thanks for sharing the video
Great video! I love Guild of Merchant Explorers but my wife is very luke warm on it. Hoping that changes.
Also I strongly believe you would like Anno 1800 Nick. It might be the game changer to make you like MW.
After playing my first 18xx game years ago, I've switched to poker chips whenever I can. I don't know why anyone would want to use paper money over poker chips, unrelated to the theme.
Makes handling money so much faster and less frustrating.
Respect respect
I played tapestry two handed the other night for the first time and loved it! And I also have complicated feelings about dice games. Doesn't Mike love Wayfarers of the South Tigris, which uses dice? Or is dice placement not as problematic as rolling for skill checks? I've questioned getting that game because of the dice...
In wayfarers there are a lot of ways to work with your dice so I’ll allow it haha plus there are more standard workers you use as well. I’ve never felt stuck playing that one
7 duels has that set collection with card combinations. The expansions with the senate actions makes for an interesting game. Tapestry is that game just gives and gives some more… the tensions is who can get the most. A game my spouse and I do. It feel the same about… Haven… I love the art and networking with cards… she finds it light and boring lol.
Through the ages gets a bad rep. But it's really not that bad. If you know the game, the physical version can be played 2 player in 2-3 hours which is similar to other heavy euros. It also looks great on the table, has tracks that you bump (which you guys love), and generally feels more fun to play physically than the digital version.
I fully admit I still don't get the strategy of the game, but from my one play, I can give mad props that it is the Euro to end all euros. It is a very solid design... so solid mechanically, it takes mere mortals ages to master it. But that's not necessarily a bad thing; I think it is almost akin to Magic or Arkham Horror or Spirit Island, in that it has deep returns on the investment, but is def not friendly for casual play.
Magicka is a co-op pc game where you blend magic in interesting, often chaotic ways. I haven't done a play though of it as I missed when my usual crew played it and it kinda needs a team. Would actually love to see it on blunderbus.
Yeah - the description of Archmage instantly made me think of Magicka, which is a great game. I played through Magicka 2 with my son and had a blast. Interesting to see how all the spell types interact and combo into more powerful effects.
I loved those games! They were my “after school with friends” games in high school
Ooooh adding it to the blunder-list!
Came here to say this :P
Top 10 idea! Mike, as a fellow new Dad, I think a top 10 games you can play while holding a baby would be interesting :) games that don't have a hand of cards, with mostly open info seem to be the best ones for my wife and I atm. Interested in your thoughts
Ha! That is such a great specific list idea I may have to do just that
Great vid as always guys! Anno 1880 is great, would be really interested in seeing how you guys go with it
Disagree haha
Mike, I need friends to play tapestry and brass and London with ALL the iron clays every day! You guys are great, thank you for sharing 💕
Iron clays for days!
I think you guys do a great job in this video of communicating that it's OK not to like everything, without being mean about it. I think you know I'm on Mike's side with Tapestry :-) The thing I love about it is that while every play is different enough (because of civs and card draws) so much of it is the same every time (in terms of the potential things you can try / do) that I find it really satisfying to try different combo-tastic strategies and then refine them over multiple plays and see how you can tweak things to really optimize and level up over time. I get that some people don't like it, though, and that's totally cool!
#teamtapestry
My thoughts in general - Your content has gotten better and better guys, I really like what You are doing. 🎉😊
Aww thanks so much! We are really focusing on improving our set up and execution so we are really glad it’s showing!
Cry Havoc was the game that made me realize I wasn't a big fan of majorly asymmetric games. It seems like you'd have to play it 4 or 5 times before you really get the strategies for the different factions. I've never been willing to invest the time in it to thoroughly explore it.
It's a game that needs to be played over and over with the same group to get a good experience out of it. People need to understand the faction they're playing to play competently. It's less about the asymmetry of the factions, and more about the how tight the faction engines are for winning.
Outside of the Trogs, Cry Havoc is a game where a faction really can't come back from a big defeat either. So, mistakes in combat can basically eliminate you from the game.
Yeah I loved the idea, Look, and play time Of Cryhavoc, but my group is almost always 3 and I hated that we could not get the trogs into the game. was iffy on the mass quantity of chit/structures to memorize what they did. but man i wanted to love it. I just had to let it go.
I love London. Always goes well for me with various groups and is refreshingly different than most games. Tapestry is just fun, thanks to the player powers and having a new “ability/effect” each round and trying to combo different elements (the production doesn’t hurt of course either). And Brass: Birmingham is a struggle puzzle in the best way. I guess I’m Team Mike here due to my super Euro-preferences. Great video, guys!
Woot!
I enjoy Tapestry. I feel like people are just disappointed because it is barely a civ game at all. It just isn't what they expected, but I like figuring out the best order to advance on the tracks.
I agree with Nick about Brass (but I do not have the poker chips..) I really really dislike it. Same goes for Imperial steam, and I am curious if you played it and what you think of it?
I'm happy to play Tapestry any time Mike. I really enjoy it and also don't completely know why. Nick, if you want to teach me Rum & Bones or Archmage, I'm down for that any time👍 Great video!
This was great to watch! I really like Tapestry AND Brass...and the clays! BAM! How do you feel about Agricola? All that pressure!?!
We actually haven't ever played Agricola despite being massive Uwe fans
I love Cry Havoc!! I actually really enjoy playing it just 2 players because the Trogs still come out and disrupt things. I picked it up for a cool $20 unpunched.
Agree on the picker chips. Why am I using poker chips in a game about making money the industrial revolution?!
The fun of Birmingham though is that it’s one of the few games where you want your opponent to take your stuff and actually plan for it.
I’m with Nick on Tapestry. One of those games where someone wins but had no idea how or why.
Oh, Nick, you're off base on those Martin Wallace games lol.
To defend nick he’s perfectly on base per his tastes. He’s vetted Martin Wallace pretty thoroughly at this point and while I dig a lot of it, just doesn’t fit nicks style oddly
@@TheBrothersMurph I feel the same on some popular games as well. Not everything is for everybody, and even stuff we “should” like sometimes just don’t click with us.
I had to sting a little because I happen to really like those two games. Brass is even my number 1.
Love Tapestry. I just have so much fun when I play it, in spite of its flaws, which aren't that much more egregious than many other games.
Agreed!
Agree
I'm with Nick on Martin Wallace. I found my one play of Anno 1800 enjoyable but I would not own it.
I love Tapestry. It has a certain care-free charm to it. Despite having basically no theme, adjusted civilizations for balance, a wonky rule book, it is one of my favorite games. I cannot explain 100% why though.
Totally fair! You like it, that's all that matters
Brass:Birmingham is my favorite game of all time!! Iron Clays ftw!!! Okay...maybe i should wait until the end of your videos to make comments.
PS Nick, I love you to pieces, you couldn't be more wrong about Martin Wallace. The man is the Chris Jericho of board game design.
Our group tried so hard to like Cry Havoc but we just could not get over the asymmetric hurdle of figuring out how to make the machines work. They just couldn’t win without maybe just playing a perfect game as they were so unforgiving. I had to cull it as I was so disappointed by it and I like you bought it immediately after hearing about it and wanted to love it.
That's always the issue with super Asymmetrical games, there's always 1 faction that's so hard to figure out
It's also a game where I feel like the level of effort to play well takes away from how fun it is to play. You have these cool and interesting alien factions battling it out. There's a clever combat system with the positioning and cards. And, then to score well is a Euro grind.
@@VaultBoy13 I agree. It’s so much work it’s not fun. You don’t get to just do what seems fun without suffering for it.
Lots of game components don't fit with the theme (e.g., dice in a space game). It's nice when they do fit, but poker chips are just so practical, I'm willing to sacrifice the theme for the functionality.
Through the Ages…how ironic. I just watched The JonGetsGames 2 player run playthru and decided that I need to get the app and I definitely want to play a physical copy. Right there with you Mike. Maybe next year at GenCon.
You and Mike can play it lol I'll go do something else
@@TheBrothersMurph Sounds good. We can follow it up with 7 Wonders Duel.
I am SHOCKED to find someone else loves the chaos of rum and bones like I do. I slowly have collected all of it.
I'm with you buddy. We can throw down whenever you are in atlanta.
Heck yeah!
Mike, if you're ever in Knoxville TN (maybe watching the team that's going to be this year's national champs) I'll play London with you!!!
Heck yeah!
I'm with Nick on 7 Wonders Duel. I owned it and played it about 20 times. Enjoyed it, but didn't see why it got so much hype. I didn't feel it was worth investing into expansions for it so it got culled. I still prefer it over 7 wonders though
Respect respect
Tapestry gets better every time I play it!
Totally agree about the poker chips as currency! I love the feel and sounds of stacked poker chips, but as a currency in a game not about gambling, it doesn't make any sense.
It makes no sense! But in a game like Vegas Showdown, gimme them chips!
I own Iron Clays and they are one of the best purchases I've ever made. Use them in Brass, Ark Nova, Acquire, The Gallerist. Anytime I buy a new game and there's shitty cardboard money I'm do I keep this in case I'm going to re sell this game or just throw out now because I have Iron Clays.
Nick, you need to come around on 7 Wonder Duel. It’s like the best two player game ever made!
But I think you won me over on the poker chip thing.
Yasss more poker chip hateeeee
I'm in agreement with Nick on the "chips instead of money" thing. Iron clays don't need to be in EVERYTHING. And there are cases in which money is done well and relevant. A good example is the paper bills in Firefly: The Board Game. Those are REALLY NICE in design, and fits the theme nicely, no need to convert it to chips.
Paper money can be nice sometimes! It doesn't deserve the hate
Money in general should stop being in everything. Get a nice pair of poker chips and never need any money again (or some metal coins, but I find poker chips are better to handle)
Having introduced Nick and Mike to Brass: Birmingham and London I take credit for turning Nick to the Martin Wallace dark side.
Lol it's all your fault!
Nick, have you tried Martin Wallace’s Tinners Trail?
Not yet but may have to!
@@TheBrothersMurph You'll hate it lol!
Tapestry Solo is good once you get going with it. It’s the main way I play it!
I have to try it solo again I guess. The first time I tried it I was utterly confused
I tried tapestry several times trying to like it. I think the center map is uninteresting. I think the city grid is uninteresting. The tracks are the cool part and the trying to stretch your turn out.
When I want the good parts of tapestry, I’ll play arnak or paladins of the west kingdom, I love those games and they make me feel the real angst of “how can I stretch the resources farther”.
Also through the ages physical is a headache, the upkeep after each turn is painful. I actually challenge anyone to play it without making some bookkeeping mistake.
With Mike on Tapestry. I love that game. Just bumping tracks.
Traaaaaaack bumping all day!
I know it's a fairly popular game, but nobody in my group liked Tigris & Euphrates. I loved it, but ultimately got rid of it because nobody ever wanted to play it.
You have to give Anno 1800 a try before you say you don’t like Martin Wallace games. It’s my favorite from his! It’s especially great with 3-4 players.
How is it at 2? That's how we play 99% of our games
Man I love every Martin Wallace I have played!
"i want a video game of this (archmage's elemental combo system)". it does exist, and it's called divinity original Sin 1 & 2
Sweet!
Nick - you, me, Bing Bong Con: double header - Rum and Bones, then Archmage. Let's goooooooo!
I shall watch from side with a judgmental eye whilst also being jealous somehow that I’m not playing with y’all
Man I'm on my 6th play of Through the Ages on digital and I just can't wait for the game to end.
Oh no!
If you have a quirk with rolling dice, why not use an app to roll?
there's no fun in that I'd rather roll and complain about it haha
I’m here for Trogdors in Cry Havoc
Burninating the countryside
"TROGDOR!! The Board Game." is epic.
Yeap. Through the Ages is good but I’m not inclined to play that again. Likely Nations killed that game for me although Nations is only half that of TTA. I don’t even like Nations that much after multiple plays. It’s not even the length of the game that kills it for me as I often play 2-4h long games.
Really think you guys understate the beauty of the game 7 Wonders Duel. It’s a really elegant game for 2p head to head. I just make sure I play it no more than once a quarter and would love every game played.
Brass Birmingham doesn’t work for me. Martin Wallace games just didn’t click for me. Tried Lancashire too and even the light version Age of Industry. Even Anno 1880, I have no urge to try despite great reviews.
Tapestry works great. Needed some balancing which was done and tweaks available online. Have yet to try with expansions but hear the expansions made them even better!
London is rubbish. Absolute trash! Looks like the games that Mike likes that Nick doesn’t, I tend to agree for most of them!
As for the games that Nick likes that Mike doesn’t, I actually realise I am not even interested to try them and actually have not tried them all. Pretty odd that I’ve played all of Mike’s choices and none of Nick’s choices. 😳😳🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
The only Martin Wallace game I’ve played is Via Nebula, which I liked, and it’ll probably be the only game of his I play.
I've actually heard great things about that game!
Agree with Nick on cry havoc. Agree with Mike on sanctum tapestry
I love chips so much, sounds and feels nice. I feel more cultured when i play it lol
Different strokes, different folks :)
You managed to hit 2 of my top 10s in this list.
Brass: Birmingham and Tapestry. Now I know who's the better brother.
You’re right it’s me
A really cool idea - I really enjoyed this video. ☺️
Nice we are happy you dug it
Kashgar: Merchants of the Silk Road. I love it along with one other person in my game group but her SO hates it.
Lol well at least you have 1 person to play with
I also don't get they hype on 7 Wonders Duel.
I'm with Nick on 7 Wonders Duel - had a fun enough time, but it is not the second coming of board games, and I don't get how it makes anyone's Top 10. Also, Tapestry was pretty fun - I don't get the hate.
Can’t agree more with Nick about 7 Wonders Duel. It’s fine. It’s fun. I have never understood the level of praise it gets though.
THANK you!
Brass doesn't normally come with iron clays...
Yeah but a lot of people got them and this nicks ire was born
Fun, fun!!! Hub & I feel the same way about 7 Wonders Duel. We actually prefer the regular, even playing just the two of us. We're in the vast minority for sure!!!!
Thank you Teej!
Me and my SO also think the 2p variant of the OG 7W was much better than 7WD, and I can't understand all the dis it gets.
I love Glen More Chronicles. I can't get anyone in my life to play this with me.
Oh we looove that game! Maybe we can play at a con some day
Mike, you’re right. Tapestry is amazing!!!
The only reason people don’t like it is because they expected something different. Nick is dead wrong!!
THANK YOUUUUUUU
7 wonders duel without or with expansions is very different. I understand you don't really like if you have never played with expansions. With expansions it's the best 2 player game ever.
To be fair, I have wanted to try it with some expansions
"Yeah, you thought it was good." 😂😂😂
Yeah....we pretty much despise Tapestry. One game we decided to get rid of us. So broken and confusing for us, personally. :)
You ain’t alone in feeling that way
25:39 A MINE!
War of the Ring. I love everything about this game but my wife is so against it I have never actually been able to play it all the way through (except playing both sides alone)
You'll find your War of the Ring friend! I believe!
7 Wonders Architects over 7 Wonders? Whaaaaaat?
I bought Architects for my nephews and niece and it’s fun to play with kids that can’t handle something more complex.
Let’s be real if you know us you know we peaked mentally in like 8th grade so 7 wonders architects is our sweet spot
BRASS BIRMINGHAM IS BRILLIANT.
But I agree the poker chips do not fit with the theme.
I’m a huge fan of Biblios but everyone I’ve played it with has hated it, so I sold it and haven’t stopped crying since 😢
Awww dang we’ve always wanted to
Try that one
Nick is wrong about Iron Clays and Tapestry. Nick is right though on Seven Wonders Duel (in fact I would call it boring).
Nick is a mixed bag to be sure
I'm another one that just doesn't get the Brass Birmingham love. To me it's just another fine euro. I don't find the puzzle very interesting, and it just falls a bit flat overall. I want to like it...but it just ain't happening.
Yeah and that happens. We are thinking of doing a list about games we really wanted to like, but just didn't for whatever reason
I feel the same as Nick with 7 Wonders Duel … I never got what was so amazing about it. I like most of the mechanics, but it’s a point salad that gives you the illusion of choice: you think you can get points in various ways, but you have to get military cards or the other player wins, so you don’t actually have a choice. (Same with Agricola … great game, but the only winning strategy is getting some of everything or you get tons of negative points.)
Another game I haven’t caught the hype for is The Crew. It’s an average game to me, but people think it’s the greatest game ever invented. I don’t understand! 😀
And now I have no friends. 😂
We’ll still be your friends. But you gotta play the crew with us because we loooooove it :) (naw ok you can be in the crew even without the crew)
@@TheBrothersMurph Thanks for not casting me out!
I would definitely play The Crew with you two. 🙂 It’s not a bad game … I just don’t get the hype, so maybe playing with you folks would help me see why everyone loves it so much.
Tapestry would be better if you did not have to give some Civilizations points or resources to balance them out.
Yeah there were definite balance issues at the start
Man Nick, Steam is such a good Martin Wallace game!
We gotta try that one for sure
I feel like I’m the only person who still cares about Smash Up. To be fair it was the game that got me into the hobby.. but I love the crazy theme and wacky art. I own everything for it and keep keep up on the new stuff too. Just me?
I don't think you're alone, they keep making more, which means it must sell really well. You can't be buying it all!
I love Tapestry too!
Yessssss
London is AMAZING!
I'm with Nick on Tapestry...I recently wrote about it on the GameNight episode page, it's too much like Agricola, Caverna and A Feast for Odin for me, just too much stuff going on, and I find myself searching...where's the fun, when does this get fun. Granted, those Uwe games have other things that annoy me, but in Tapestry there are some very specific issues I have. I hate the random tech distribution, you discover fire, then transistors, then some medieval tech, then whatever, it's just a pasted on theme that is absolutely pointless and loses me thematically. Second, I HATE HATE HATE that you spend all this time lining stuff on your city board in rows and columns, just for maybe one or two chances to get all those bonus points...wait, only ONE bonus point? WTF?!?! I spent all that energy lining stuff up and filling stuff in meticulously and all I get is one lousy point?!?! Third, I hate that on your turn, you do this, and pay to do this extra thing, then you place this on this thing, which gets you this, and that uncovers this...and worse, when you go up in era, you trigger like a dozen things...meanwhile, the other players might as well go for a walk, grab a bite to eat, then when they come back, the NEXT player goes up in era and THEY go through a dozen things...HATE IT.
So it's safe to say you're fully team Nick on that one
Ha the vitriol is real!
I have a copy of Cry Havoc, fully painted with expansions, that I'd be happy to send to you guys.
I also wish a better game would steal Sanctum's leveling system with the gems. It's so fun to do that, but the end of the game is ALWAYS a let down. And being forced to always go forward on the main track is a disappointment. I want to grind and gear up in areas Diablo style and it just doesn't let you do that.
Thank you so much for the offer, but I'd say send it to someone who will play it. I love Cry Havoc, but we got rid of it because it just won't get played.
And that's a fair assessment of Sanctum. Even though I love it, it does feel like there are several missed opportunities there
I'll have to think on a game I love that others don't. But I will say that everyone I play games with, absolutely loves ROOT, and I do not. I think its fine, even very good, but it didn't take long for me to get all I was ever gonna get out of it, but my game groups still put it on the table with great regularity...and I don't really understand that.
I(Nick) also think it's fine. Just, fine.
I use metal coins from Moedas for Brass :)
Niiiiice
Fully on board for disliking Tapestry. I'm not a fan in general of Stonemaier games, but we played Tapestry before they had massive errata for it and our 3rd place player in our game would have won with the changes, which was one issue. It's messy, the buildings don't fit on the board for them properly, and it doesn't really work for what it's trying to do.
Respect respect
I agree with you Mike. Tapestry is a great game and I never care if I win. 😊
heck yeah!
Architects is incredibly random and drives me up the walls sometimes. I would play Duel over it and I am not the biggest fan of it.
Respect respect
Sanctum is so much fun until you get to the end boss and it falls completely flat because its impossible to beat the boss.
it does indeed take some practice to get good enough to beat the boss
@@TheBrothersMurph Nah its impossible. Like on average its impossible. With some luck im sure you could win but be honest whats your win percentage? I feel like you can have have the best possible gear and items, go into this fight and easily die to mildly bad rng.
Nick has like a 25% win rate so it's definitely not high
Oh Nick…. Iron clays and Brass Birmingham are THE BEST! 😁
False.
My gf hates fox in the forest but I adore it so much lol
Nick wins and Mike is all so wrong on everything.
- Adventure Land is amazing ! The coop expansion is also wonderful; I need to bring it to a con we are together at so we can play !!!
- Sanctum is amazing and incredibly underappreciated / underrated
Hehehe I could have seen you siding with nick a mile away!
I hate myself for liking Feudum, does that count?
That absolutely counts