Is Survival Techniques Worth It?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Survival Techniques is one of many food eco technologies you can research in Age of Empires 4, but is it worth the investment given the limited amount of huntable deer and boars on the map? Let's find out!
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#AgeofEmpires4 #SurvivalTechniques #Deer
0:00 - Intro
0:23 - Fundamentals
2:26 - Testing Deer
6:31 - Testing Boars
7:29 - Payback Discussion
8:46 - Rules of Thumb
10:52 - Conclusion - เกม
CORRECTION: 10:22 The *base* gather rates for Deer and Boars are actually higher than all but Shoreline Fish - that's my bad. What I meant is that the walk time from huntables severely impact the effective gather rate, both getting there in the first place as well as the back and forth from the carcass to the mill. Hence, my point on gather rates is in the grey area, but the point on safety still stands. You're usually better off to start on berries and sheep simply due to less walk time and safety. :)
Just a heads up folks! - The Public Preview patch notes (which is not guaranteed to make it to a live patch) have major changes implemented to not only hunting overall, but also on Survival Techniques. For the time being, the information in this video applies to your games for sure, and I'll keep you folks updated in case the public preview changes to hunting is applied in a future patch! Spoiler Alert: The proposed future changes to Survival Techniques are awful at first glance. Stay tuned for the many new videos based on the Public Preview coming soon!
Whew! I am glad you mentioned this because I got so confused! 😅😅
I have been prioritizing hunts over berries/sheep, particularly as Rus, because the tool tips kept telling me it was faster. But I am going to see about focusing down sheep+berries first and see how that goes.
Alternatively, because of Prof. Scout, should we never be going out to hunt deer with villagers..? 🤔🤔
It might be worth noting that some maps have much closer deer spawns than others (mainly thinking of Hill and Dale and Altai, unless those changed in the last two months since I'm a bit behind the times in the VODs I'm watching).
Anyway, what about Survival Techniques for HRE and its interactions with Wheelbarrow? Since the carry capacity and walking time seems to have a high impact on the efficiency of Survival Techniques, I'd be curious to know whether and when they'd be worth researching. At the very least it seems safe to say that the 1 prelate per 8 villagers lines up perfectly with the deer and boar collection.
Other than that, will you be making a video about the Mongols' improved economic upgrades and mining upgrades with a Steppe Redoubt?
I quite enjoyed these videos on efficiency, but I feel like they still leave some questions open. I would also have been interested in mining camp placement as well as mining camp number efficiency per number of miners on large gold mines. The video just said that placing one on the side is easy, but not at how many villagers it would be efficient to add a second camp or whether the ideal placement remains the same. I'd even be interested in 2 mining camps on the same side for large gold veins.
This is content that changes lives. Never used the tech before, now I'm a new man. Thanks AoN 😁
Np my friend, glad to see you again here!
To save you the trouble of pro scout placement, you could save once the deer are killed and then use loads to test with/without an upgrade. That would completely remove the potential wandering factor, or unpredictable tree placement for other vids
That's actually a good point, I'll use that in the future :)
10:21 Are you sure about that ? Deer is one of the food source that is harvested the quickest after boar and fish. Maybe you messed up the numbers ?
I'd like an explanation thank you !
Thanks for pointing it out - posted an explanation on the pinned comment. :)
Always falling in love with the wicked camera angles. This pleases the kid in me. It's your signature aesthetic. :)
Glad you like it my friend :)
I've been waiting for this one!! With the new rework as well, I'm highly interested to see how this research plays out. Currently, I've been testing out Researching this ASAP as RUS due to getting gold so quickly at the beginning and still having enough for feudal by the time you get 400 food. If you chop from Straggler Trees around your base, the 50 wood requirement is nothing short than a small price for all of the RUS hunt gathering!
Rus also can technically also continuously take advantage of it with the Deer spawning landmark as well :)
2:37 why did I thought the ropes where some poop the deer made as it run away? xD
but nontheless: amazing video again ^^
I’m always excited to see your latest video. Thanks for the insight 🙏
No problem Charlie! :)
Always appreciate the videos! teach me a lot I was picking all tier 3 upgrades up before you! I feel there is a huge component missing to this video though as this is the only eco upgrade that wont scale. Once you take your two deer patches and maybe, maybe a boar the upgrade will have no effect. I think you should always prioritize the other upgrade as they will always be bring back value through out the entire game.
While you are right that it doesn't scale - it still pays itself very quickly that you shouldn't really care. I.e. even if you just take one boar or one camp of deer, it still ends up being worth it to expedite your gather speed significantly and pay itself quickly. :)
@@AgeofNoob I agree.
Kind of an awkward time for this video considering the Season One Update beta patch notes were leaked yesterday and this tech changes in it.
I hope they don't go through with the change because it would kill the tech imo.
@@AgeofNoob Oh, really? Curious. I had thought of the change as an overall buff.
@@JimCullen It's a buff to hunting overall, but not the tech itself. Not having any additional carry capacity kills it - as the % increase doesn't mean much on huntables that most players will most likely not exceed a camp of deer and a boar.
that is great content thanks. I will make sure to use that tech my next games, specially as I tend to use pro scouts a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the video! :D
My pleasure!
I swear man, you have a knack of releasing videos about things that are about to get patched 😂
Survival techniques won't give extra carry capacity in the new patch, but will provide a gather rate bonus. Default gather capacity will be increased across the board.
Regardless, love the content.
Yeah I was like damn all that work :D But at least we have a reference point now, because I think the new Survival Techniques will be trash tbh. And thanks!
@@AgeofNoob yeah I agree the new one seems pretty weak from the patch notes, as your video indicated, the carry capacity provides a massive bonus to effective gather rates in most normal conditions by minimising travel time.
I wonder how wheelbarrow plays into the equation since it provides you with both the movement speed buff and a carry capacity buff. In general I think it makes sense to prioritize wheelbarrow over survival techniques due to the broader impact it has on your economy. My gut feeling is if you got survival techniques after wheelbarrow, you have a smaller relative increase to gather rates compared to the data you presented here since the carry capacity bonus is only 100% now and the walking time has been reduced by 15%
Also, let's look at the bright side, we've learned that if we want relic to patch someone, we just need age of noob to make a video about it 😉
but what the research shows is that the hunt change from the patch will be a big deal, as the carrying capacity made up a +10-20% gather rate. This means hunt and boars will be significantly stronger in the new patch even before survival techniques.
It's always a pleasure to watch your videos, besides hearing the Skyrim music in the background, it's just nice. I have a question about that last one, don't you have copyright problems for putting them in the background? Or the author gives them the freedom to put them? Greetings! :)
Almost all games allow you to use their original soundtrack in videos, simply because gaming companies allow this for free marketing I guess. It's more worth it for them to get their content out on TH-cam/Twitch. Technically, if they do change their minds all of a sudden tomorrow, I will get copyright claims for sure.
I usually drop prof scout and get this instead for mongols.
As the Ger can move about its far leas macro intensive and quite often saved me a few times as my food production is at a random corner of the map usually out of harms way whenever i get base raided.
Ofc it has its risks but if you got good map controll and towers, it shouldnt be to much of a problem.
love these videos, im all about learning efficiencies and playing better
Glad you like them Besnik!
I like to send 8 vills to a hunt / boar and then transition them to the perfect 8 block of farmers after the meat is exhausted.
Epic video,
Now we need a video on mining camp placement in a clockwise direction, it's supposed to give a boost of up to 8% becauss the villagers rotate around. (Source grubby from an n4c stream)
What do you mean by clockwise? Could you elaborate?
You're Videos are so good
Thank you!
It would be interesting if the Abbasid Dynasty and Delhi Sultanate had something berry related instead of hunt related in their survival techniques.
They already have free bonuses on their berries - giving something additional would likely make it OP. Delhi right now is way too strong to get a new buff.. :D
They already get +15% berry collection speed with 500 resources per bush instead of 250 if they build a Mill next to them.
Useful vid as always !
Can we see the extracted tables for gather rates? I don't know where I can find them :[
Thanks! There you go: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LG0We2pTFZsbFm_k1SKLix8gxSq_9n5R_Ic3G2tVzBg/edit?pli=1#gid=903622150
@@AgeofNoob Bless You, Gov'na 🙏
Hey AoN, hopefully one day you could cover IO tax collection efficiency to see how much gold Chinese players are actually making purely out of tax with and without imperial Academy (ans how upgrades affect it). Also how many IOs are needed for maximum efficiency and minimize idle IO. It may be a bit complex but I hope one day you cover it.
Thanks!
I am waiting for the Chinese to settle a bit in terms of balance before exploring them, as they keep changing the values around tax. But I will cover them soon!
You had to get that video out quickly, didn’t you? 😉 I love them all though
Originally was supposed to be released days ago, but things got in the way.. :D
Finall new video ist out
Of course they announce major changes as soon as you drop this.
FeelsBadMan :D
Why dont apply to sheeps?
I don't think berry gather rate is the same as hunt gather rate - is it?
Posted correction on pinned comment. :)
Stronghold music?
Correct!
I think the new patch may affect some of the stats in this vid unfortunately :(
It's getting changed next patch to 15%
It's not confirmed yet :)
👍
Spring update fixes this :D
On the Thumbnail stand not #edit
aaaaaaaaaaaaaand they changed it D:
All this work for them to change how survival techniques works haha
We'll at least have a reference point to what it was :D
Oh god, the patch totally ruined this video.
Well it's not live yet, so it will be relevant until they make it to live servers. :D
20K SUDS
I thought it cost 200g that's how shit I am lol
:D
What about the Rus, who are encouraged to go hunting the deer across the map to cash in on the bounties?
Well, you're encouraged to kill, not necessarily gather food from. But since you're already out with multiple Scouts killing them, you're better off getting Pro Scouts to bring them back to your base. This obviously will change depending on spawn points, build orders, and maps. :)
@@AgeofNoob Yeah, but that might change the order of things of your opponent is going around nicking all the deer before you get the chance to set up, or to deny him access to the bounty, no? Just thoughts to put on the matter.
This has got to be by far the worst core economic update in the entire game. I see literally no reason to pick up this upgrade ever. There’s a reason it hasn’t been researched one time in the current N4C tournament. It needs to be buffed big time. The pay back time that you calculate isn’t necessarily correct, because there is a long research time. Additionally, this has to be researched by the feudal age at the latest, a time when resources are at their most premium. So now you need to find time in your build order to sacrifice precious resources and time just to go acquire a risky resource that does not have permanent value. There is a finite amount of meat on the map and after you clear out your main hunt, most games you will never eat meat again.
. If you wait for moment when time and resources are less of a premium it’s entirely pointless because your food eco has already switched to farms.
To fix this upgrade I suggest they lower the cost, speed up the build time, and even make it apply to sheep. That could maybe make it find a niche role if you luck out and nab a bunch of sheep early game. Then since you already have the upgrade you can focus on the other meat now. Another, more interesting solution, would be to find a way to make meat renewable. Maybe have a deer herd respawn on the map a couple minutes after it’s been destroyed. Less practical but something to consider.
What do y’all think. I can confidently say that ever since I’ve been watching pro matches and actually getting better at the game, there is truly zero reason to ever consider this upgrade in 99% of scenarios. The only reason you would want it, I suppose is if you have the rus landmark that spawns deer.
I think it would be cool if the game had a "Domestication" upgrade that makes the farms produce animals every once in a while. We could have a building with pigs, chikens and cows in it, that way producing food with time and also animals to butcher.
I do factor in research time in payback time already FYI
@@AgeofNoob yeah i didnt really explain it clearly. I understand that. I just kinda meant how that doesnt explain the full picture. the value of the upgrade diminishes with time as more and more food opportunity becomes available with farms. The 200 resources for this upgrade or whatever it is are far more valuable at minute 5 than minute 20. The 5-6:30 research window is far more time expensive than the 21-22:30 window. Payback time does not calculate this. I struggle to see a window that early enough to make this upgrade worth it, but late enough to where it doesnt consume valuable resources. Realistically, what time frame do you see this upgrade being obtainable? You have to get feudal first, you have to get wheelbarrow first. I gotta assume theres way better places to spend your gold or your villagers time after this, but even then you're already requiring a lot of gold just to harvest dear 15% faster. You're much better off using those villagers to mine stone for 2nd TC, using gold for unique upgrades like fresh food stuffs or even dynasty as chinese, or even prioritizing army such as an early knight or attack ship. I just really struggle to find any place to encorperate this upgrade to an efficeint build order.
Every game i kill a boar and it despawns instantly
You're playing as the Delhi or Abbasids then, as they cannot gather food from Boars. :)
First 😊
**Hands out free Survival Techniques.**