So I have a M2 MacBook Pro and for some reason I always thought the colors drift way too much after exporting in Davinci. I thought it needed calibration, but this video has one-handedly solved 95% of my issues. Cullen, I can not thank you enough for this video.
@@CullenKelly This is fantastic! Thank you! Why does everyone online push the Rec709A (Setting output color space to rec709 and output gamma to rec709A)? Also I'm assuming that if you have a calibrated reference monitor and an IO device you can just grade in rec709 gamma 2.4 without issues (besides maybe quicktime still showing things weirdly but the solution there seems to be to not use it and use Screen which allows you to configure the correct color management)
You've upgraded my grading so much with your careful explanations. If there is one thing I could hope for, it's a deep dive on Davinci export settings! Thank you!!!
Until this video, I used to set my timeline to Rec.709 (scene) and my output to Rec.709-A, when using my Macbook Pro screen for grading Rec.709 footage. But Cullen is using Rec.709 2.2 for output, and feeding his custom LUT with a Rec.709 2.2 input (using the second CST node before the custom LUT). So, given that I follow the exact steps shown in the video, should I stop using Rec.709-A altogether?
Any Asus ProArt that goes beyond 500nits (for HDR), would be a good choice. To my knowledge, they all supports 3D LUT box build in, so that you don't have to rely on ICC color profiles.
Hey Cullen. In a DWG colour managed project, are we able to use this LUT at the timeline level on the colour page, that way not having to turn it off on each individual clip and just once in a single node? Thanks so much for the info and look forward to the Gamma shift issue video.
This comment should really be higher...I was just trying to figure out if there's a way to not have to go through manually and disable every single node.
Just so people know the LG display used by Apple is very good, but the white point is at a weird spot and the entire colour gamut is shifted away from P3 standard toward the green end I believe. The display has ~95% DCI P3 coverage (When Apple say P3, they mean to their own P3 standard). It's a great screen, but the C3 and newer LG panels are more accurate and also a lot brighter (you can get them up to ~850 nits) so you could feasibly do the low-end of hdr grading on those. BUT in all of these cases, please create a colour profile for your monitor using a sensor, also you will want to redo this at least once every two months at least in the beginning to see if there is any shift.
Cullen, it looks like this is one of your most viewed videos, yet I feel like this video left many of us hanging for a follow-up video. Any plans to release more info in an attempt to solve this issue?
I feel like a video like this for the new QD-OLED monitors would be amazingly helpful since they're going to be insanely color accurate looking at the specs, but the same issues you're solving here is needed
What if you select rec 709A as the output color space under color management instead of rec 709 gamma 2.4 Do you get a more accurate representation on a Mac? Do you use it in tangent with your gamma 2.2 method
lol suggestion for next video: how to calibrate a monitor and create a 3d lut with DisplayCal. This could be very useful for many starting out and wanting to get serius about grading :)
Interesting. Just a thought could you not add the LUT to the Project settings /Colour Management/Video Monitor LUT then not have to worry about switching it off?
@@CullenKelly wait why? in another video and another comment on this video, I recall you suggested it was feasible or even better to a) color manage in nodes and b) add your correction LUT in "video monitor lookup table" at a project level. Side benefit of this, as I remember, is that the scopes don't change, so you can actually use them to evaluate your levels. Did I get it all wrong? Or part of it? Please find the time to reply, thank you dearly! =)
I would love to see you do a video talking more about options for monitors and reference displays whether it be Ezios, LGC3 or Sony BVMs. A "guest engineer" to talk with you would be awesome.
It’s kind of miracle for me. I’ve been working on one project for two weeks and carefully following your tutorials. Finally I did achieve the results that I wanted. But yesterday I found new issue. After exporting my project I found it darker which I didn’t like it ( I’m never had this problem before on my iMac) I’ve spent the whole day yesterday till late night trying to find out how to solve this problem. I did lost my sleep over night, because this Saturday is the deadline for the project. To my surprise, when I opened TH-cam this morning to continue searching for the videos on how to resolve this issue, your video was first one on my homepage page in recommendations. I’m hoping it will help me to finish my project on time. 😊
Hi Cullen; would it work for us to add the viewing lut on the timeline node since as i understand that comes after the clip nodes? Just eyeballing it it seems to give the same results but much easier to disable in the end!
Have you tried an sRGB workflow? I set my MacBook Pro XDR display to the sRGB reference preset and output color space/gamma in Resolve to sRGB and it is by far the most consistent presentation across my MacBook Pro, iPhone and Windows Desktop. No gamma shifts across any of the devices. Input color space is CDNG (de-bayered into BMD Gen 4), working color space is DWG, output color space SRGB.
It does seem like there should have been a big disclaimer on this video that states, “don’t bother doing any of this until the gamma shift solution is provided” Without the gamma shift solution as an integral part of the strategies in this video, it becomes even more convoluted and confusing when you see a misaligned export. Key information needed here is what tagging option we use for exports. I’m happy to sit and experiment for several hours to find the answer, but are all viewers eager to do the same?
I see your point, but as I mentioned in the video, we actually need to start with an accurate reproduction of the image, then worry about maintaining that accuracy following export. Otherwise we're just struggling to ensure consistently incorrect reproduction, which is much harder, and not terribly useful. That said, the gamma shift issue is of course vitally important! More content to come on this topic.
@@CullenKelly He is right, though, you didn't tell us what gamma tag to use on export😅. This video is a bit frustrating to be honest, I feel even more lost than I was before. Because I don't see the difference between this method and using Rec709-A. My videos on my Mac looks accurate, but when I watch them on Pc/Android, they are way too saturated and much darker.
use the default one. Then you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That way you get a consistent result across both DVR and quicktime.
Interesting...have you had a chance to measure any of the other ColorSync presets available for the Apple displays. For instance, there is a "HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)" one. I wonder how accurate that one is and if it could be used to grade for Rec.709 Gamma 2.4. Does it make any sense to use any of the other presets besides the "native" one for the display?
That's what I wonder too. Currently, I grade under HDTV Video display preset. The only thing I do, before I render, is put a CST on the last node, switch from gamma 2.4 to gamma 2.2, and tag the video gamma rec709-A on the delivery page. I can't remember the source right now. Although I think it works, I am never sure if this is the most efficient and right way because I don't have different devices around me.
+1 I had mine set to that, and it seems that what I see on DR compared to rendered piece seen in VCL, phone and other places is more accurate with this setting.
To achieve a proper macos color workflow, you shouldn't use anything aside from the default color profile. First - you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That way you get a consistent result across both DVR and quicktime. Because your main goal is to match DVRs output with your display settings and deliver it AS IS with the correct gamma tag.
great video, many thanks! but why don't you just use that .lut as "video monitor lookup table" in the project settings? that way you don't have to manually adjust anything and just work and grade as you like, it would affect only the timeline viewer without affecting the exported video
Rather than placing the LUT on a node, you can apply it to the color viewer in Resolve color settings. It only affects the color viewer, not the export or anything else.
So could I use that Mac viewer on the viewer lut option? So it's always on the viewer but doesn't affect the grade? Just so I don't forget it from time to time. Also, once I export to clients what should the output be? Im afraid that if I send a 2.2 to my client they could see it brighter than the still's I've been showing.
Hi, first of thanks so much for the video - so helpful! I know you've said in other comments that you were planning on making videos about how to solve mac gamma shift on export, are you still thinking of doing these?
You're very welcome! And yep, this is still something I'm working on...there are lots of different causes for this, so it takes time to put together a comprehensive set of solutions!
Excellent information! Just downloaded the Mac Display LUT! I've got a M1 MacBook Pro with a choice of XDR P3 1600 Nit default or P3 500. Are they both going to be gamma 2.2? Also, your brightness setting looks to be about 75%. Was that as a result of calibration or a recommended brightness? Last question: Between a REC 709 gamma 2.4 calibrated BENQ SW-270C and the MacBook Pro, which would you consider more accurate? Thanks a ton!!
Hi Cullen, thanks for your straightforward tutorial! If I calibrated my monitor using a device like SpyderPro or Calibrite Display, is the process the same? Should I enable "Use mac display color profile for viewers" & use your LUT? Thanks!
So awesome! Thank you very much Cullen, this workflow is pretty straightforward, the explanation quite clear, and I’m sure this will be much appreciated by the amateur color community.
This is very interesting. Could we get a bit more detailed explanation of how you made that LUT and why it is necessary? And then also, if you do calibrate your monitor, how does that fit into this workflow? Is it simply a case of loading there ICC profile into the Mac OS and selecting it in that first step in the video?
The LUT is essentially correcting for ColorSync's incorrect interpretation of gamma 2.2 material. Regarding how this interacts with a custom calibration profile, I'm actually not sure as this isn't something I've tested...
Cullen did say that the output tag should be Rec709 gamma 2.2 and of course, this will not solve the gamma shift issue which he also mentioned. Seems like there's more work to do to get the image out when dealing with the fact that many players assume a 1:1:1 color space / gamma.
@@Traenonify No! That's a temporary fix, only meant for Apple devices. It was never meant to be used on final grades. The whole point of using Rec709-a, is if your customer is reviewing the video on a Mac with for example Quicktime. But the video will be incorrect on any other device than Macs. And with any non color managed MacOS video players.
One question, wouldn't it be better to insert this LUT in the project settings as a PREVIEW LUT, which will only influence the visualization but will not be applied in the export, instead of going back to all the clips and deactivating the LUT?
That's very helpful, I always end up when grading on my Macbook on the go, darkening the image cos off using the display incorrectly, but after this you just save me too much of rendering and testing out lol. And ofcurse for my professional grading I always go with a trusty reference monitor in the grading room.
First thing that came to my mind was to simply put Rec.709-A in the CST output node. Correct me if I tell bs, but isn‘t that the same or very very close to Gamma 2.2? I always thought Rec.709-A was especially designed for Apple displays to tackle the gamma shift of the output😅
This is a common solution to the "gamma shift" issue, but that's not an issue we're focused on solving in this video. In this one we're asking: “Am I getting an accurate rendering of my image while grading?” as opposed to "Do my exports match what I saw when grading?”. Hope that makes sense?
Excellent video thank you! I hope to set this up using a shared project so that I can do some initial balancing from my home office but do a final pass and producer reviews on a different system with a reference monitor for a broadcast deliverable. I assume I would need to switch the outgoing colour transform to 2.4 when screening on the reference monitor?
I have been so frustrated with grading in resolve after always knowing what I’m getting on Final Cut. The only thing that made my export as close to what I saw on my GUI was to have a CST from 709 2.4 to 709a . Made it look too contrasty but on export it looked like what I saw. SO FRUSTRATING. Hopefully this new setup will work. Thanks!
Surprised I haven't heard or seen anyone talking about this as a solution for the apple gamma shift issue with QuickTime, maybe because it costs money. But something that appears to have worked really well for my workflow is just spending the money to get Screen by video village, the same company who makes Film Box for Resolve. I set it to my default video player and it's like Quicktime but better. Compliments the MacOS UI well, free of clutter (unlike VLC) and you can change the settings to default to different colorspaces. I tweaked the settings to be 2.4 and now when I render out of Premiere or After Effects, my videos look exactly the same. Plus, in Screen there's a built in menu for previewing luts. Honestly worth the money imo and I don't think about the frustrating Quicktime color shift problems any more. Hope that's helpful to others. If someone knows a reason why this is somehow not a true solution feel free to chime in, but by all appearances on my end the images match, so I'm happy
because we aren't worried about how videos look on our screens? We are worried about the gamma shift for the audience. Unless you plan on buying every single viewer on your content Screen then I dont understand how this helps?
I tried this doing everything as Cullen said but I tagged the file export in the delivery tab as REC 709-A. By doing that the QT reproduction was more accurate compared to what I saw inside Resolve. On top of that TAG (1-1-1) from 709-A is the standard profile that production companies have been using to send to me their films to be color graded at least in my regular advertising pipeline (ONLINE MEDIA - NOT TV). I tested on an iMac 27 5K using the display color profile: Display P3. This setup worked well trough Resolve "Remote Monitoring".
You could also use rec709 - rec709 output tag to get the 1-1-1, just put rec709-a in your timeline color space output settings, that way you get the correct gamma tag and no gamma shifts across all media. And the macos displays option should be on, yes.
I didn’t do it because I tried to follow Cullen’s plan as much as possible and putting that 709-A in the output color space tab inside project settings would change our monitoring during the grading.
@@adrianoclinquart this is a proven method of grading on macs with Mac monitors and color sync to get consistent results across all media as well as inside DVR. of course with rec709-a tag you get a different gamma in your viewer, but at least you won't have gamma shift if you export with the correct gamma tag and you deliver exactly what you see, but good luck fiddling with additional cst nodes and so on.
Latest MAC OS has a ColorSync preset "HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)". I compared the colors on MBP 16 M1 with EIZO 4k monitor, REC709 preset. Signal from BMD Ultra Studio. More accurate and more simple workflow in my opinion. But I am an ignorant to Master Kelly.
This looks like a recent addition, and most don't even know about it (that is: haven't tested it nor mentioned). We just keep getting more options to go crazy, instead of getting a definitive workflow fix 😂
Thanks for this Cullen - My M1 MBP gives me Apple XDR Display (P3-1600 nits) Apple Display (P3-500 nits) options - which one would work better ? And should Automatically adjust brightness be switched on or off?
I have a MPB 16" and I found that if I (in System Preferences) set up a custom Display Preset, set it to Rec.709, D65, BT.1886, and then crucially UNTICK "Apply System Gamma Boost", and then grade into Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 in Resolve, then it translates perfectly between a TH-cam/Vimeo upload and Resolve. I wish we could move beyond this though and live life with a bit more colour. Most people not on PC or Android can reproduce P3 these days.
Just so I make sure I am getting this correct: the output gamma on the node level should be 2.2 and the colorspace tag should be rec 709 and the gamma tag should also be 2.2? I have to distribute content on social media, web, TH-cam, and CTV (video ads on Hulu etc.).
Should I calibrate my monitor or just choose a preset color profile? I ask because when I choose anything related to P3, I get a VERY cool image and is NOTHING like the calibrated display.
Let me know if I wrong, but in one of your videos you pointed out that at the end you are using macOS Viewing Transform LUT in the (project settings > Color management > Video Monitor Lookup table ) instead of serial node after REC709 CST and that you don't need to switch it off in that case before the render?
forgive the confusion. so when we are exporting are we leaving the colour viewing setting on rec 709 2.2 even though the space of the delivery ie, tv, standard monitors etc is rec 709 2.4 ? or do we need to check that it is exporting for rec 709 2.4 ? so im using a colour managed workflow in davinci, with the Mac display option in resolve enabled. colour profile for monitor in settings set as P3, so the footage is auto adjusted for accurate rec 709. but when I use my MacBook Air M1 display I should be setting rec 709 2.2 gamma as the viewing space but it will be exporting for 2.4 standard. any help is welcome. thanks for the great video. and free viewing LUT.
Hey great video, just one question. At 3:15, when selecting a display preset (P3-600nits) you left the "Automatically adjust brightness" option checked. Doesn't that create problems when editing? If yes what would be the "optimum" setting for brightness? (coming from a photo editing world where everything gets edited at 80nits I found this kind of weird).
Is this about the grade itself or the exports? I work with your usual workflow but use Rec.709-A both in the color management and export settings (I use sRGB when using ACES). Exports look exactly the same on all my Apple devices and different PCs. I don't have gamma shift (used to when working on Rec.709 2.4) but I might have a slight tint shift depending on the monitor.
I use a similar workflow with the Bt.1886 reference mode enabled on my Apple display and to eye it’s a perfect match to a calibrated LG OLED, and by tagging Rec709-A I’ve also gotten consistent reproduction across apps/devices. Curious about Cullen’s thoughts on using the reference profiles that Apple is shipping with their more recent devices (including iPad Pro now)
Tried your workflow with the Lut placed on timeline (But in Rec709 2.4 to match with my OLED) and it seems to be slightly more accurate than using the Rec709-A tag as output colorspace. Good work! Output also looks identical in every color-managed player such as Quicktime, Optimus, Chrome etc.
You don't have to use Rec709-a as an output tag, to achieve 1-1-1 gamma tag you should put rec709 / rec709 , that way you don't need to worry about quicktime messing up your work with gamma shift. everything is far less complicated. First - you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That's it.
@@mattstahley6340 No, I always use the default Mac Display profile that comes straight out of the box. You don't have to squeeze your display output capabilities to get a decent picture with no gamma shift, you still won't get a properly calibrated gamma 2.4 if you change your display profile to whatever. So why bother :)
@@Rogeras32 So, pc/android users will still see an oversaturated video? Because, on Mac my export video looks accurate (safari-youtube-quicktime-preview), but on Pc they look way too saturated. It drives me crazy 😅...
A huge thanks dear Cullen. Thoses precious advices on the DCI P3, the gamma 2.2, your macDisplay's LUT downloaded have solved my washed's flavors aspects when broadcasted onto plateforms, such as Vimeo or Ytube. As same as often I've read in the comments, I was questioning and dealing about this issue, then you've dedicated one tutorial in september onto this unsolved problem... Are you directly connected with us ? You've saved my day, thanks dear maestro. 🥰
This doesn't actually fix it. You just don't see it but others with displays that use gamma 1.96, 2.2 2.4 or even 2.6 will definetly notice. You need to entirely bypass apple color sync by using a blackmagic video card. That way resolve takes control of the HDMI output signal of the video card and directly exports the clean feed without mac os interfering in the middle.
@@shueibdahir if you did this, what settings would you then have to sidle or enable in order for the clean feed to display as accurately as possible on a Mac studio display?
It would really be important to know what settings we should set while exporting the actual output files. Project settings? (2.2)? Rec709a when exporting a h264? I can not get an accurate reproduction of what I see in Resolve in a final QT file with this workflow. I DO get an accurate reproduction when I don't do any of this, don't use the lut but just grade regularly and when outputting convert to rec709a via a CST AND a Gamma Tag when I want to export an h264. When I export ProRes Rec709 I just ignore all of this and export without any 709a tagging etc. should we set the output CST to 2.4 when we render a Prores? Or do we leave everything as is and export a prores with 2.2 gamma? This video is incomplete without those informations..
Hi Cullen. I've used this lut on a few projects. When exported, videos look great on apple products but show wayy too much saturation on products other than apple's. So I had revert back turning the mac display color option off and the old rec709, gamma 2.4 transforms and timelines. Am I doing anything wrong?
Correct. You do that, then you deliver with rec709 / rec709 gamma tag. And have use mac display option on. And that's it. No luts needed, consistent result across dvr and quicktime.
This is a common practice designed to solve a different issue than what we're talking about in this video. Goal of this one is to ensure accurate reproduction of the image while grading, while the goal of using 709-A tags is to try and get a matching reproduction following export. More to come on the latter soon (there's a better solution than using 709-A tags).
For PC I did this before for my mini home suite By bypassing Windows OS color management for my Eizo monitor and color mange it with rec709 ICC profile by targeting my Eizo monitor to rec709 2.4 and it works perfectly and it match my studio reference monitor with I/O box
Bro thuis is Why you are the man!. Just followed all the steps om My iPad Air m1 . I just recently switched from My Windows machine and got so frustrated. But now my results are stunning my exports look identical just wanten to gave you a big thank you!!
Thanks for creating this extremely helpful tutorial. You mentioned that these settings were intended for computer and smartphone output. In my case, my output will be a low end, digital cinema projector that does not conform to DCP or XYZ standards. Would you still recommend using the P3-600 nit display setting or should I be using the Digital Cinema D65 setting on my M3 Max MacBook Pro? And, if the latter, will your Rec 709 2.2 and LUT still apply?
Sorry, too many variables here to give a great answer in a comment. As a general guideline, if your color management is targeting display standard A, and your monitor is properly calibrated to that same standard, you can reliably target display standard B once grading is complete, and be confident that things will travel well when viewed on a display calibrated to display standard B. So for your workflow, you'd need ensure the destination projector is calibrated to a standard you can target in your color management.
Thank you Cullen, I have few questions, What is the brightness level of the mac Display I have to setup at the start, As I know Rec709 is a 100 nit, so shall I pick my light meter and majr a 100 nit before starting, Second many Mac Display support HDR, is it possible to explain how to make it possible to grade HDR1000 or DolbyVision on a Mac Display.
Was very excited about this video - but feel like it has only confounded my Apple MacBook workflow. I use display BT1886 preset and turn off Mac displays in DVR while working in rec709 Gamma 2.4 color managed project. Exports looks same on OLED; but stills always have a gamma issue with stills/exports when viewed on other apple devices etc not in that 1886 setting.. I am sure Cullen has more illuminating and susinct insights on all this Apple silliness.
Hey Sean! As I mentioned toward the beginning, this video isn't intended to address the gamma shift issue -- we're laying the foundation here, but "Do my exports match what I saw when grading?" is a distinct question from the one we're answering here: "Am I getting an accurate rendering of my image while grading?" More to come!
Hey Cullen, is this supposed to be used in the same viewing environment as 709 2.4, meaning a dim environment and screen brightness at around 100 nits? Thank you for your continuous efforts! Michael
EDIT: TRIED THE FOLLOWING EXPORT SETTINGS (just saw them somewhere else) and it looks like they did the trick for me: Color Space tag: P3-DCI (EDIT 2: Actually, P3-D65 is better, P3-DCI has greener white point intended for cinema projectors color compensation) Gamma tag: sRGB! Let me know if it works for you as well! ORIGINAL POST: Guys, I would also like to know how to tag the output en export, but this video is focused on better / more accurate color display on Apple displays. We might need to look elsewhere for ideal export settings. It's a shame he didn't include this info here, as it would have been the definitive Davinci+Apple Displays guide. Nevertheless, this is the best video I have found on Apple display monitor calibration inside Resolve!
To achieve a proper macos color workflow, you shouldn't use anything aside from the default display color profile. First - you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That way you get a consistent result across both DVR and quicktime. Because your main goal is to match DVRs output with your display settings and deliver it AS IS with the correct gamma tag.
@@Rogeras32no one wants to work in rec709a color space....which is why he is doing this. He's staying in davinci wide gamut and solving the discrepancy with his utility and node tree.
Using the sRGB output is working because NCLC tags has provision for sRGB and it applies gamma 2.2. All you are doing is changing the standard to 2.2 - which i have been campaigning for to whomever will listen. The problem is as everything was changing to Internet and different device mediums - the industry developed processes where they expect rec79 gamma 2.4 and during their acquisition of your footage they change the gamma to 2.2. There are even TVs that will change incoming 2.4 from broadcast and show 2.2. The whole industry needs to change and that's where all the difficulty is.
@@nicholasbrecken7357 you don't work in that color space, you just output it to not get gamma shift. you still have 1-1-1 tags in delivery and get no gamma shift across all media. Simple as that. You still work in whatever color space you want lol
Surely storing the “display Lut” in the Display lut slot in Resolve preferences. Solves the problem of turning the final Node on and off. At delivery. Or does that output slot only apply to a clean feed output path?
I want to know as well. I currently have a $300ish LG monitor with a Datacolor SpyderX Pro calibrator. I'm guessing that's not good enough. Saving up for an Apple Studio Display. Reference monitors are waaaaay out of my budget.
Cullen, thanks for all the videos you put out. I reference your material often. And as a result I feel my grading has massively improved. I'm not a colorist by trade, but rather wear many hats. However, I have a question. This video specifically focuses on Apple displays. I use an ASUS ProArt and have been searching everywhere to figure out the best option to solve shifting. I have an UltraStudio 3G set up. Monitor is set to 709/2.4. I know recently you've been suggesting 2.2 for web. But I'm currently working on a short film that will live beyond web or Vimeo. However as I export for reviews I'm still experiencing massive shift in black levels between DR and what I see in QT exports. (I've done all the DR settings like 10 bit, Mac colors, 709a) I've been setting my Mac system settings to 709/2.4 for viewing. In this scenario, given my Mac Studio and Asus Monitor, would using the default Display P3 in my OS system settings for viewing after export be the best scenario for accuracy? When I remove the Ultrastudio and view the export on the same monitor with the same settings I get completely different results when it comes to contrast/black levels. I've air dropped to my iPad Pro and at full brightness is matches what I'm seeing in DR pretty well. Looks horrible in reference mode. I'm just feeling really lost on how to create a solid level of consistency when viewing across different monitors after export.
So a basic take on this is that IF I am running with a colour accurate reference monitor which is connected to BMD Ultrastudio to bypass colorsync altogether - It would be correct to simply target rec709 2.4 and deliver to that as well? I'm mainly thinking of content that would go out to multiple platforms - TV and the interwebs to be exact. Or would you do any kind of a trim for internet content?
Great question Petur! We'll be covering this in greater depth soon, but short answer to your question would be yes. Mastering gamma 2.4 in dim surround and then playing back on a 2.2 display with bright surround (most common web viewing setup) will give you a rough approximation of what you saw while mastering.
@@CullenKelly - Great - Look forward further deepen my understanding of this all - The main thing is that I would like to get as close as possible in one go if that's possible .. If not then I would of course be prepared to make the necessary adjustments.
Is the MacOs viewing transform for macbook pro displays or for external displays? I mean can I use it for my 15 inch MacBook display? I dont get it. Please help!
I’m using a 2017 iMac Pro and also an Apple TB Display. Your LUT saved me a lot of work as it has been challenging for months now to get the displays calibrated using a DataColor SpyderX calibration tool and DisplayCalc. With the latter, there is a yellow shift versus using the P3 (Default) gamma profile. I understand this is a year old post but I will ask… will you be kind enough to share how to use a calibration tool with DisplayCalc to calibration an Apple display? Thank you for this video and the LUT.
YES! I was waiting for a video by you on this specific topic, owning two Pro Display XDRs.. there is so much nonsensical information out there on this topic.. Thx Cullen, you're the man! Any advice on a calibration solution for the pro Display XDR? Is there any way to do this with lesser devices than the 15.000 $ ones that apple suggests? And the second question- I guess you output with Gamma 2.4, right? The Lut inverse-compensates while viewing for the 1-1-1 file tagging that lifts the image when viewed in the browser, right?
Fantastic. Hill Cullen, i have a great grading set up at home but now i’m flying a lot & might need to just grade on the new iPad Pro. I would love to know accurate setting alone on the iPad, maybe just for online exports. Also… what if my iPad pro was connected to my windows PC but using the new Remote Monitoring’ set up as a reference display. Any settings change there? I assume you don’t have windows but the iPad alone question i would love to know. Many thanks 😊
What about the macOS auto-brightness setting, Cullen. On my MacBook Pro, it has this enabled by default and of course this has a huge impact on the display brightness and simply cannot be used as a reference setting (or am I really missing something)? My first thought was to use on of the MacBook reference monitor presets such as the HDTV 709 bt1886 (?) which also disables True Tone and auto brightness. Thx.
Keep seeing this popping up, but no actual video talking about it. Maybe a pretty recent addition and most haven't caught up yet? Any article or link on this particular setting? I'm curious!
I found this: Learn about reference modes You can use the reference modes included with your display to match the production requirements of HDR, HD, SD video and other media types. Each reference mode sets the colour space, whitepoint, gamma and brightness on your display. This section provides details about each reference mode included with your display. Apple XDR Display (P3-1600 nits) On MacBook Pro, use this mode for general home and office environments. This mode is based on the wide colour P3 primaries used by Apple displays and includes Extreme Dynamic Range (XDR) support up to 1,600 nits (peak). Pro Display XDR (P3-1,600 nits) On Pro Display XDR, use this mode for general home and office environments. This mode is based on the wide colour P3 primaries used by Apple displays and includes Extreme Dynamic Range (XDR) support up to 1,600 nits (peak). Apple Display (P3-500 nits) Use this mode for general home and office environments. This mode is based on the wide colour P3 primaries and supports a brightness range of up to 500 nits typical of Apple built-in displays. On Studio Display, this mode appears as Apple Display (P3-600 nits) and supports a brightness range of up to 600 nits. HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886) Use this mode for high-definition video production workflows targeting the ITU-R BT.709 and BT.1886 recommendations. This mode is designed for controlled viewing environments set up per ITU-R BT.2035. Digital Cinema (P3-DCI) Use this mode for motion picture and post-production workflows using the P3 theatrical colour space and digital cinema whitepoint. This mode is designed for controlled viewing environments set up per SMPTE RP 431-2:2011. Digital Cinema (P3-D65) Use this mode for motion picture and post-production workflows using the P3 theatrical colour space with the D65 whitepoint. This mode is designed for controlled viewing environments set up per SMPTE RP 431-2:2011. Internet and Web (sRGB) Use this mode for content creation workflows targeting the web or other internet-based uses. This mode uses the broadly supported sRGB (IEC 61966-2-1:1999) colour space per the W3C CSS Colour Module Level 3 recommendation and is designed for appropriately set up and controlled viewing environments (64 lux is recommended).
No OS auto brightness solution should ever be used. Best scenario is, you always do color workflow in a dark room, or at least a room, with the same level of light, no matter the time of day. Some monitors with 3D LUT box build in, can have a light sensor, for auto adjustment, and some calibration software, can auto adjust according to ambient light, via the colorimeter. But best option is really to disable it all, and always do color workflow in a dark room. For SDR, a calibrated monitor between 80-120 luts/nits is ideal, and for HDR, anything above 600 nits, and ideally 1000 nits.
@@CullenKelly but then what brightness level should you set your display to? This seems to be critical, otherwise all bets are off regarding what the image looks like to you vs the rest of the world. Full brightness? Half Brightness? 38% brightness?
Thanks! Is this also applicable to third party external monitors such as the ProArt series? Does the ‘LUT’ work as it would with the Apple Studio display?
Is it safe to infer then that I need to calibrate my iMac display *not* as 2.4 but rather *2.2* for a truly realized image-- even if output in DaVinch is gamma 2.4?
If you send a clean signal (via decklink) to your monitor, then your output color space and gamma should coincide (if output color setting is rec 709 2.2, that your monitor should be set and calibrated for rec 709 2.2). On the flipside another approach with a "normal" monitor via hdmi for example (not betting my life on this) is that you calibrate your monitor targeting your monitor native space, in case for newer macs it's P3 D65 , hence leaving to OS color management (colorsync for apple) to do the transformation from your output color space (let's say rec 709 2.2) to P3 D65. In my mind it should be the same if I set the output color space to something different when I EXPORT. But Cullen would probably tell you that the correct workflow would be to change color management AND output color space to your target export, check that everything is ok, then export to that same space and gamma. I really hope my answer is correct, and clear enough. If someone has informed corrections or considerations, please don't restrain yourself!
Thanks Does it work the same with the video clean feed ? What would be the settings to benefit of the entire ColorSync profil of the Apple Display (Gamut P3D65 & Gamma 2.2 with 300 nits) ? Why not put the lut in Project Setting ➧ Color Management ➧ LUT ➧ Color Viewer LUT, instead ?
Hi Cullen, I am working with Nikon NRaw files and I am using the nikon red luts. This lut already has a rec 709 Output colour Space. But I dont know the exact gamma curve. If its 2.4, do I have to make Another cst to put a rec 709 2.4 into a rec 709 2.2? Thanks
Hi long time listener first time caller! I have an HP z31 they don't have HDR but they have the same color reproduction if not better. I usually run them in the Native color space preset, should i be using DCI P3 D65?
as I see in a comments, we definitely need more information about gamma shift issue and 709-A tag. thank you, Cullen.
and apple studio displays, there's almost nothing
So I have a M2 MacBook Pro and for some reason I always thought the colors drift way too much after exporting in Davinci. I thought it needed calibration, but this video has one-handedly solved 95% of my issues. Cullen, I can not thank you enough for this video.
You got it!
@@CullenKelly This is fantastic! Thank you!
Why does everyone online push the Rec709A (Setting output color space to rec709 and output gamma to rec709A)?
Also I'm assuming that if you have a calibrated reference monitor and an IO device you can just grade in rec709 gamma 2.4 without issues (besides maybe quicktime still showing things weirdly but the solution there seems to be to not use it and use Screen which allows you to configure the correct color management)
You've upgraded my grading so much with your careful explanations. If there is one thing I could hope for, it's a deep dive on Davinci export settings!
Thank you!!!
Mate. I've been tearing my hair out trying to solve that gamma shift on export on my Mac. This fixed it, well explained. Legend
Until this video, I used to set my timeline to Rec.709 (scene) and my output to Rec.709-A, when using my Macbook Pro screen for grading Rec.709 footage.
But Cullen is using Rec.709 2.2 for output, and feeding his custom LUT with a Rec.709 2.2 input (using the second CST node before the custom LUT).
So, given that I follow the exact steps shown in the video, should I stop using Rec.709-A altogether?
What’s a budget friendly reference monitor you can recommend? Sorry if you’ve covered this already!
Any Asus ProArt that goes beyond 500nits (for HDR), would be a good choice. To my knowledge, they all supports 3D LUT box build in, so that you don't have to rely on ICC color profiles.
Hey Cullen. In a DWG colour managed project, are we able to use this LUT at the timeline level on the colour page, that way not having to turn it off on each individual clip and just once in a single node? Thanks so much for the info and look forward to the Gamma shift issue video.
Great question! Yes you can!
This comment should really be higher...I was just trying to figure out if there's a way to not have to go through manually and disable every single node.
Just so people know the LG display used by Apple is very good, but the white point is at a weird spot and the entire colour gamut is shifted away from P3 standard toward the green end I believe. The display has ~95% DCI P3 coverage (When Apple say P3, they mean to their own P3 standard). It's a great screen, but the C3 and newer LG panels are more accurate and also a lot brighter (you can get them up to ~850 nits) so you could feasibly do the low-end of hdr grading on those. BUT in all of these cases, please create a colour profile for your monitor using a sensor, also you will want to redo this at least once every two months at least in the beginning to see if there is any shift.
Can't tell you how much this helps!. Been researching this for a week now and so glad I caught this on your channel.
Hey, could you also make a video about how to grade for cinema?
Do it in a projection room
Thanks Cullen. Any calibration tips/LUTs for colourist using Resolve on iPad Pro please? It’s hard to tell what P3 color space it’s defaulted to.
I would love to know this
Me too🥺
Cullen, it looks like this is one of your most viewed videos, yet I feel like this video left many of us hanging for a follow-up video. Any plans to release more info in an attempt to solve this issue?
I feel like a video like this for the new QD-OLED monitors would be amazingly helpful since they're going to be insanely color accurate looking at the specs, but the same issues you're solving here is needed
What if you select rec 709A as the output color space under color management instead of rec 709 gamma 2.4 Do you get a more accurate representation on a Mac? Do you use it in tangent with your gamma 2.2 method
lol suggestion for next video: how to calibrate a monitor and create a 3d lut with DisplayCal.
This could be very useful for many starting out and wanting to get serius about grading :)
Interesting. Just a thought could you not add the LUT to the Project settings /Colour Management/Video Monitor LUT then not have to worry about switching it off?
There’s just one way to find out I guess!
@@Visethelegendbump, in case the answer comes😉
@@sonidojamonSign me up for this info!
I wish this worked, but unfortunately it adds its own complications....happy to discuss further in Grade School!
@@CullenKelly wait why? in another video and another comment on this video, I recall you suggested it was feasible or even better to a) color manage in nodes and b) add your correction LUT in "video monitor lookup table" at a project level. Side benefit of this, as I remember, is that the scopes don't change, so you can actually use them to evaluate your levels. Did I get it all wrong? Or part of it? Please find the time to reply, thank you dearly! =)
I would love to see you do a video talking more about options for monitors and reference displays whether it be Ezios, LGC3 or Sony BVMs. A "guest engineer" to talk with you would be awesome.
Ive tried a million things and nothing worked but this LUT did. Thank you bro. You the man
It’s kind of miracle for me. I’ve been working on one project for two weeks and carefully following your tutorials. Finally I did achieve the results that I wanted. But yesterday I found new issue. After exporting my project I found it darker which I didn’t like it ( I’m never had this problem before on my iMac)
I’ve spent the whole day yesterday till late night trying to find out how to solve this problem. I did lost my sleep over night, because this Saturday is the deadline for the project.
To my surprise, when I opened TH-cam this morning to continue searching for the videos on how to resolve this issue, your video was first one on my homepage page in recommendations.
I’m hoping it will help me to finish my project on time. 😊
This right here saved me HOURS of frustrating work trying to just get the right baseline from which to start grading!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
Cullen this by far the best video I’ve watched, regarding this topic. As per usual, well explained and easy to understand. Thanks a ton 🙏🏼
So glad to hear it, thanks!
You're a mind reader! I was looking into this very question 24 hours ago! Thank you so very much
Same as me 😊I’m even contacted Davinci Resolve support. Waiting for a reply from them.
Hi Cullen; would it work for us to add the viewing lut on the timeline node since as i understand that comes after the clip nodes? Just eyeballing it it seems to give the same results but much easier to disable in the end!
Great question! That's correct, it should work on the timeline level when doing node based color management!
i tried it, and it works :D.. i usually use rec709-A as my output instead of gamma 2.4.. but now i can confidently use gamma 2.4 as my output.
but in this he talks about putting gamma 2.2. Have u tried it?
Have you tried an sRGB workflow? I set my MacBook Pro XDR display to the sRGB reference preset and output color space/gamma in Resolve to sRGB and it is by far the most consistent presentation across my MacBook Pro, iPhone and Windows Desktop. No gamma shifts across any of the devices. Input color space is CDNG (de-bayered into BMD Gen 4), working color space is DWG, output color space SRGB.
Interesting!
This is what I've needed FOREVER since getting a studio display, thank you! You're really almost the only one I can find on this.
It does seem like there should have been a big disclaimer on this video that states, “don’t bother doing any of this until the gamma shift solution is provided”
Without the gamma shift solution as an integral part of the strategies in this video, it becomes even more convoluted and confusing when you see a misaligned export.
Key information needed here is what tagging option we use for exports. I’m happy to sit and experiment for several hours to find the answer, but are all viewers eager to do the same?
I see your point, but as I mentioned in the video, we actually need to start with an accurate reproduction of the image, then worry about maintaining that accuracy following export. Otherwise we're just struggling to ensure consistently incorrect reproduction, which is much harder, and not terribly useful. That said, the gamma shift issue is of course vitally important! More content to come on this topic.
@@CullenKellyany update to the second series? I had assumed another video was soon to follow?
@@CullenKelly He is right, though, you didn't tell us what gamma tag to use on export😅. This video is a bit frustrating to be honest, I feel even more lost than I was before. Because I don't see the difference between this method and using Rec709-A. My videos on my Mac looks accurate, but when I watch them on Pc/Android, they are way too saturated and much darker.
in mac settings on macbook pro there is only colour profile which I have set to colour lcd, should we change this to display p3 or image p3 or ?
use the default one. Then you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That way you get a consistent result across both DVR and quicktime.
@@Rogeras32 yes, that is what I did earlier
I literally asked you for this in a comment on your last video! You're so awesome. Thank you so much Cullen!!!! 😭😭
Interesting...have you had a chance to measure any of the other ColorSync presets available for the Apple displays. For instance, there is a "HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)" one. I wonder how accurate that one is and if it could be used to grade for Rec.709 Gamma 2.4. Does it make any sense to use any of the other presets besides the "native" one for the display?
Wondering about that, too :)
also curious about this one...wouldn't we want to target P3-DCI or I also have the option for P3-D65...
That's what I wonder too. Currently, I grade under HDTV Video display preset. The only thing I do, before I render, is put a CST on the last node, switch from gamma 2.4 to gamma 2.2, and tag the video gamma rec709-A on the delivery page. I can't remember the source right now. Although I think it works, I am never sure if this is the most efficient and right way because I don't have different devices around me.
+1 I had mine set to that, and it seems that what I see on DR compared to rendered piece seen in VCL, phone and other places is more accurate with this setting.
To achieve a proper macos color workflow, you shouldn't use anything aside from the default color profile. First - you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That way you get a consistent result across both DVR and quicktime. Because your main goal is to match DVRs output with your display settings and deliver it AS IS with the correct gamma tag.
Hi Cullen
we need the rec 709A debate solved and put to an end. Nobody can agree on anything lol. Help us sir
great video, many thanks! but why don't you just use that .lut as "video monitor lookup table" in the project settings? that way you don't have to manually adjust anything and just work and grade as you like, it would affect only the timeline viewer without affecting the exported video
I want to know this too, but I applied the LUT in the video monitor lut and didnt work, did you try it?
Rather than placing the LUT on a node, you can apply it to the color viewer in Resolve color settings. It only affects the color viewer, not the export or anything else.
There's a good reason I don't suggest doing it this way! Happy to discuss further in Grade School
@@CullenKelly I’d be curious to know
@@CullenKellyi want to know aswell
Newbie comments maybe, but doesn’t using the four nodes slow down the machine compared to making changes in project settings?
So could I use that Mac viewer on the viewer lut option? So it's always on the viewer but doesn't affect the grade? Just so I don't forget it from time to time. Also, once I export to clients what should the output be? Im afraid that if I send a 2.2 to my client they could see it brighter than the still's I've been showing.
Good questions. I agree, the LUT should be applied in the settings either as output LUT or as viewer LUT.
Hi, first of thanks so much for the video - so helpful!
I know you've said in other comments that you were planning on making videos about how to solve mac gamma shift on export, are you still thinking of doing these?
You're very welcome! And yep, this is still something I'm working on...there are lots of different causes for this, so it takes time to put together a comprehensive set of solutions!
@@CullenKelly Cool, looking forward to it!
Me too🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
🙏
@@CullenKelly looking forward to this!
Excellent information! Just downloaded the Mac Display LUT! I've got a M1 MacBook Pro with a choice of XDR P3 1600 Nit default or P3 500. Are they both going to be gamma 2.2? Also, your brightness setting looks to be about 75%. Was that as a result of calibration or a recommended brightness? Last question: Between a REC 709 gamma 2.4 calibrated BENQ SW-270C and the MacBook Pro, which would you consider more accurate? Thanks a ton!!
Hi Cullen, thanks for your straightforward tutorial!
If I calibrated my monitor using a device like SpyderPro or Calibrite Display, is the process the same? Should I enable "Use mac display color profile for viewers" & use your LUT?
Thanks!
So awesome! Thank you very much Cullen, this workflow is pretty straightforward, the explanation quite clear, and I’m sure this will be much appreciated by the amateur color community.
This is very interesting. Could we get a bit more detailed explanation of how you made that LUT and why it is necessary? And then also, if you do calibrate your monitor, how does that fit into this workflow? Is it simply a case of loading there ICC profile into the Mac OS and selecting it in that first step in the video?
The LUT is essentially correcting for ColorSync's incorrect interpretation of gamma 2.2 material. Regarding how this interacts with a custom calibration profile, I'm actually not sure as this isn't something I've tested...
Would you then tag your export as Rec709 gamma 2.2 as well?
That's also my question exactly!
no, because it won't carry over when uploaded to any video platform
Tag it 709-A
Cullen did say that the output tag should be Rec709 gamma 2.2 and of course, this will not solve the gamma shift issue which he also mentioned. Seems like there's more work to do to get the image out when dealing with the fact that many players assume a 1:1:1 color space / gamma.
@@Traenonify No! That's a temporary fix, only meant for Apple devices. It was never meant to be used on final grades.
The whole point of using Rec709-a, is if your customer is reviewing the video on a Mac with for example Quicktime. But the video will be incorrect on any other device than Macs. And with any non color managed MacOS video players.
One question, wouldn't it be better to insert this LUT in the project settings as a PREVIEW LUT, which will only influence the visualization but will not be applied in the export, instead of going back to all the clips and deactivating the LUT?
Excellent work, Cullen!
That's very helpful, I always end up when grading on my Macbook on the go, darkening the image cos off using the display incorrectly, but after this you just save me too much of rendering and testing out lol.
And ofcurse for my professional grading I always go with a trusty reference monitor in the grading room.
First thing that came to my mind was to simply put Rec.709-A in the CST output node. Correct me if I tell bs, but isn‘t that the same or very very close to Gamma 2.2? I always thought Rec.709-A was especially designed for Apple displays to tackle the gamma shift of the output😅
This is a common solution to the "gamma shift" issue, but that's not an issue we're focused on solving in this video. In this one we're asking: “Am I getting an accurate rendering of my image while grading?” as opposed to "Do my exports match what I saw when grading?”. Hope that makes sense?
@@CullenKelly how do we then combine the 2 to solve both problems?
@@CullenKelly But it's only accurate for mac users..Because my videos looks way too saturated on Pc/Android
Excellent video thank you! I hope to set this up using a shared project so that I can do some initial balancing from my home office but do a final pass and producer reviews on a different system with a reference monitor for a broadcast deliverable. I assume I would need to switch the outgoing colour transform to 2.4 when screening on the reference monitor?
I have been so frustrated with grading in resolve after always knowing what I’m getting on Final Cut. The only thing that made my export as close to what I saw on my GUI was to have a CST from 709 2.4 to 709a . Made it look too contrasty but on export it looked like what I saw. SO FRUSTRATING. Hopefully this new setup will work. Thanks!
Same, 709-A across the board on project settings, CST, and export shows true on quicktime and youtube (no gamma or saturation shift)
Surprised I haven't heard or seen anyone talking about this as a solution for the apple gamma shift issue with QuickTime, maybe because it costs money. But something that appears to have worked really well for my workflow is just spending the money to get Screen by video village, the same company who makes Film Box for Resolve. I set it to my default video player and it's like Quicktime but better. Compliments the MacOS UI well, free of clutter (unlike VLC) and you can change the settings to default to different colorspaces. I tweaked the settings to be 2.4 and now when I render out of Premiere or After Effects, my videos look exactly the same. Plus, in Screen there's a built in menu for previewing luts. Honestly worth the money imo and I don't think about the frustrating Quicktime color shift problems any more.
Hope that's helpful to others. If someone knows a reason why this is somehow not a true solution feel free to chime in, but by all appearances on my end the images match, so I'm happy
Great insight, Austin! I will second that Screen is a great tool for Mac users!
because we aren't worried about how videos look on our screens? We are worried about the gamma shift for the audience. Unless you plan on buying every single viewer on your content Screen then I dont understand how this helps?
Awesome information !!! Please drop some affiliate links to entry level calibration tools and reference monitors.
I tried this doing everything as Cullen said but I tagged the file export in the delivery tab as REC 709-A. By doing that the QT reproduction was more accurate compared to what I saw inside Resolve. On top of that TAG (1-1-1) from 709-A is the standard profile that production companies have been using to send to me their films to be color graded at least in my regular advertising pipeline (ONLINE MEDIA - NOT TV). I tested on an iMac 27 5K using the display color profile: Display P3. This setup worked well trough Resolve "Remote Monitoring".
This is very valuable info! How about Chrome and other players? Is it consistent?
You could also use rec709 - rec709 output tag to get the 1-1-1, just put rec709-a in your timeline color space output settings, that way you get the correct gamma tag and no gamma shifts across all media. And the macos displays option should be on, yes.
I didn’t do it because I tried to follow Cullen’s plan as much as possible and putting that 709-A in the output color space tab inside project settings would change our monitoring during the grading.
@@adrianoclinquart he's right! He could place clip's/timeline's last node adjustment on the monitor sí
@@adrianoclinquart this is a proven method of grading on macs with Mac monitors and color sync to get consistent results across all media as well as inside DVR. of course with rec709-a tag you get a different gamma in your viewer, but at least you won't have gamma shift if you export with the correct gamma tag and you deliver exactly what you see, but good luck fiddling with additional cst nodes and so on.
Latest MAC OS has a ColorSync preset "HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)". I compared the colors on MBP 16 M1 with EIZO 4k monitor, REC709 preset. Signal from BMD Ultra Studio. More accurate and more simple workflow in my opinion. But I am an ignorant to Master Kelly.
This looks like a recent addition, and most don't even know about it (that is: haven't tested it nor mentioned). We just keep getting more options to go crazy, instead of getting a definitive workflow fix 😂
I tried that approach in a simple test and worked well for me. I posted separately about it. It does dim the XDR display quite a bit.
@@ikestrom luminance and color gamut ...
@@ikestrom but it is the only correct way to grade... rec709 on 100 nits display. thats why it dimmed.
Thanks for this Cullen - My M1 MBP gives me Apple XDR Display (P3-1600 nits) Apple Display (P3-500 nits) options - which one would work better ? And should Automatically adjust brightness be switched on or off?
for accuracy use HDR PQ preset on ur macbook screen
I have a MPB 16" and I found that if I (in System Preferences) set up a custom Display Preset, set it to Rec.709, D65, BT.1886, and then crucially UNTICK "Apply System Gamma Boost", and then grade into Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 in Resolve, then it translates perfectly between a TH-cam/Vimeo upload and Resolve.
I wish we could move beyond this though and live life with a bit more colour. Most people not on PC or Android can reproduce P3 these days.
this should be the correct workflow, right? Choosing reference mode Rec.709, D65, BT.1886 to be sure that your work is not affected by colorsync etc.
This video (and the free LUT) really saved my butt. Thank you!!!
Woah. What perfect timing.
Just so I make sure I am getting this correct: the output gamma on the node level should be 2.2 and the colorspace tag should be rec 709 and the gamma tag should also be 2.2? I have to distribute content on social media, web, TH-cam, and CTV (video ads on Hulu etc.).
Should I calibrate my monitor or just choose a preset color profile? I ask because when I choose anything related to P3, I get a VERY cool image and is NOTHING like the calibrated display.
Literally one of the best and most useful videos ever thank you so much
Glad it was helpful!
Let me know if I wrong, but in one of your videos you pointed out that at the end you are using macOS Viewing Transform LUT in the (project settings > Color management > Video Monitor Lookup table ) instead of serial node after REC709 CST and that you don't need to switch it off in that case before the render?
forgive the confusion. so when we are exporting are we leaving the colour viewing setting on rec 709 2.2 even though the space of the delivery ie, tv, standard monitors etc is rec 709 2.4 ? or do we need to check that it is exporting for rec 709 2.4 ? so im using a colour managed workflow in davinci, with the Mac display option in resolve enabled. colour profile for monitor in settings set as P3, so the footage is auto adjusted for accurate rec 709. but when I use my MacBook Air M1 display I should be setting rec 709 2.2 gamma as the viewing space but it will be exporting for 2.4 standard. any help is welcome. thanks for the great video. and free viewing LUT.
Thank you so much! I've been wanting to find a solution for this for a long time! Your video was very helpful :D
Hey great video, just one question. At 3:15, when selecting a display preset (P3-600nits) you left the "Automatically adjust brightness" option checked. Doesn't that create problems when editing? If yes what would be the "optimum" setting for brightness? (coming from a photo editing world where everything gets edited at 80nits I found this kind of weird).
Please which color profile sould i use on my mac, I don't understand this video
Is this about the grade itself or the exports? I work with your usual workflow but use Rec.709-A both in the color management and export settings (I use sRGB when using ACES). Exports look exactly the same on all my Apple devices and different PCs. I don't have gamma shift (used to when working on Rec.709 2.4) but I might have a slight tint shift depending on the monitor.
I use a similar workflow with the Bt.1886 reference mode enabled on my Apple display and to eye it’s a perfect match to a calibrated LG OLED, and by tagging Rec709-A I’ve also gotten consistent reproduction across apps/devices.
Curious about Cullen’s thoughts on using the reference profiles that Apple is shipping with their more recent devices (including iPad Pro now)
@@matthewblacklock2972 @oshrigetreuer1490 would love to see a follow up on this!
Tried your workflow with the Lut placed on timeline (But in Rec709 2.4 to match with my OLED) and it seems to be slightly more accurate than using the Rec709-A tag as output colorspace. Good work! Output also looks identical in every color-managed player such as Quicktime, Optimus, Chrome etc.
You don't have to use Rec709-a as an output tag, to achieve 1-1-1 gamma tag you should put rec709 / rec709 , that way you don't need to worry about quicktime messing up your work with gamma shift. everything is far less complicated. First - you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That's it.
@@Rogeras32 Do you use the built in HDTV BT709 display profile?
@@mattstahley6340 No, I always use the default Mac Display profile that comes straight out of the box. You don't have to squeeze your display output capabilities to get a decent picture with no gamma shift, you still won't get a properly calibrated gamma 2.4 if you change your display profile to whatever. So why bother :)
Do you mean at "Timeline level" (not Clip)?
@@Rogeras32 So, pc/android users will still see an oversaturated video? Because, on Mac my export video looks accurate (safari-youtube-quicktime-preview), but on Pc they look way too saturated. It drives me crazy 😅...
Don't you have to tag the video in the delivery page to 709-A as well? If not, just use "same as project"?
Thanks!
A huge thanks dear Cullen. Thoses precious advices on the DCI P3, the gamma 2.2, your macDisplay's LUT downloaded have solved my washed's flavors aspects when broadcasted onto plateforms, such as Vimeo or Ytube. As same as often I've read in the comments, I was questioning and dealing about this issue, then you've dedicated one tutorial in september onto this unsolved problem... Are you directly connected with us ? You've saved my day, thanks dear maestro. 🥰
This doesn't actually fix it. You just don't see it but others with displays that use gamma 1.96, 2.2 2.4 or even 2.6 will definetly notice.
You need to entirely bypass apple color sync by using a blackmagic video card. That way resolve takes control of the HDMI output signal of the video card and directly exports the clean feed without mac os interfering in the middle.
@@shueibdahir if you did this, what settings would you then have to sidle or enable in order for the clean feed to display as accurately as possible on a Mac studio display?
It would really be important to know what settings we should set while exporting the actual output files. Project settings? (2.2)? Rec709a when exporting a h264? I can not get an accurate reproduction of what I see in Resolve in a final QT file with this workflow. I DO get an accurate reproduction when I don't do any of this, don't use the lut but just grade regularly and when outputting convert to rec709a via a CST AND a Gamma Tag when I want to export an h264. When I export ProRes Rec709 I just ignore all of this and export without any 709a tagging etc.
should we set the output CST to 2.4 when we render a Prores? Or do we leave everything as is and export a prores with 2.2 gamma? This video is incomplete without those informations..
Yeah I'd really like a better dive into what the export settings need to be.
Hi Cullen. I've used this lut on a few projects. When exported, videos look great on apple products but show wayy too much saturation on products other than apple's. So I had revert back turning the mac display color option off and the old rec709, gamma 2.4 transforms and timelines. Am I doing anything wrong?
same for me, have you found a solution? Because he never talks about that unfortunately
What about setting Rec.709-A as the Output color space under Project Settings?
This video has lota of valuable info, but has raised LOTS of questions as well! Leave this here in case someone answers 😉
Correct. You do that, then you deliver with rec709 / rec709 gamma tag. And have use mac display option on. And that's it. No luts needed, consistent result across dvr and quicktime.
This is a common practice designed to solve a different issue than what we're talking about in this video. Goal of this one is to ensure accurate reproduction of the image while grading, while the goal of using 709-A tags is to try and get a matching reproduction following export. More to come on the latter soon (there's a better solution than using 709-A tags).
@@CullenKelly Thanks Cullen. Looking forward to it.
@@CullenKelly so please say it😅, it's been one year we are dying to know what is the best solution 🙃
Can you still make use of the waveform even though that last node is shifting the blacks / contrast?
For PC I did this before for my mini home suite By bypassing Windows OS color management for my Eizo monitor and color mange it with rec709 ICC profile by targeting my Eizo monitor to rec709 2.4 and it works perfectly and it match my studio reference monitor with I/O box
Bro thuis is Why you are the man!. Just followed all the steps om My iPad Air m1 . I just recently switched from My Windows machine and got so frustrated. But now my results are stunning my exports look identical just wanten to gave you a big thank you!!
So happy to hear that!
Thanks for creating this extremely helpful tutorial. You mentioned that these settings were intended for computer and smartphone output. In my case, my output will be a low end, digital cinema projector that does not conform to DCP or XYZ standards. Would you still recommend using the P3-600 nit display setting or should I be using the Digital Cinema D65 setting on my M3 Max MacBook Pro? And, if the latter, will your Rec 709 2.2 and LUT still apply?
Sorry, too many variables here to give a great answer in a comment. As a general guideline, if your color management is targeting display standard A, and your monitor is properly calibrated to that same standard, you can reliably target display standard B once grading is complete, and be confident that things will travel well when viewed on a display calibrated to display standard B. So for your workflow, you'd need ensure the destination projector is calibrated to a standard you can target in your color management.
Amazing workflow. Thank you for the tips!
Thank you Cullen, I have few questions, What is the brightness level of the mac Display I have to setup at the start, As I know Rec709 is a 100 nit, so shall I pick my light meter and majr a 100 nit before starting, Second many Mac Display support HDR, is it possible to explain how to make it possible to grade HDR1000 or DolbyVision on a Mac Display.
I have these same questions. What would the XDR display workflow be?
@@BestPlayedLoudLtd Find an app that can calculate nits through the camera. Find the proper brightness setting. Leave it on forever.
Was very excited about this video - but feel like it has only confounded my Apple MacBook workflow. I use display BT1886 preset and turn off Mac displays in DVR while working in rec709 Gamma 2.4 color managed project. Exports looks same on OLED; but stills always have a gamma issue with stills/exports when viewed on other apple devices etc not in that 1886 setting.. I am sure Cullen has more illuminating and susinct insights on all this Apple silliness.
Hey Sean! As I mentioned toward the beginning, this video isn't intended to address the gamma shift issue -- we're laying the foundation here, but "Do my exports match what I saw when grading?" is a distinct question from the one we're answering here: "Am I getting an accurate rendering of my image while grading?" More to come!
Hey Cullen, is this supposed to be used in the same viewing environment as 709 2.4, meaning a dim environment and screen brightness at around 100 nits? Thank you for your continuous efforts! Michael
EDIT: TRIED THE FOLLOWING EXPORT SETTINGS (just saw them somewhere else) and it looks like they did the trick for me:
Color Space tag: P3-DCI (EDIT 2: Actually, P3-D65 is better, P3-DCI has greener white point intended for cinema projectors color compensation)
Gamma tag: sRGB!
Let me know if it works for you as well!
ORIGINAL POST: Guys, I would also like to know how to tag the output en export, but this video is focused on better / more accurate color display on Apple displays. We might need to look elsewhere for ideal export settings. It's a shame he didn't include this info here, as it would have been the definitive Davinci+Apple Displays guide. Nevertheless, this is the best video I have found on Apple display monitor calibration inside Resolve!
To achieve a proper macos color workflow, you shouldn't use anything aside from the default display color profile. First - you put your output color space to rec709-a in the timeline settings, second - you turn on the macos display option, then you just tag the delivery with rec709 / rec709. That way you get a consistent result across both DVR and quicktime. Because your main goal is to match DVRs output with your display settings and deliver it AS IS with the correct gamma tag.
@@Rogeras32no one wants to work in rec709a color space....which is why he is doing this. He's staying in davinci wide gamut and solving the discrepancy with his utility and node tree.
Using the sRGB output is working because NCLC tags has provision for sRGB and it applies gamma 2.2. All you are doing is changing the standard to 2.2 - which i have been campaigning for to whomever will listen. The problem is as everything was changing to Internet and different device mediums - the industry developed processes where they expect rec79 gamma 2.4 and during their acquisition of your footage they change the gamma to 2.2. There are even TVs that will change incoming 2.4 from broadcast and show 2.2. The whole industry needs to change and that's where all the difficulty is.
@@JimRobinson-colors Thanks for this info! It won't work for HDR content, right? What do you recommend then?
@@nicholasbrecken7357 you don't work in that color space, you just output it to not get gamma shift. you still have 1-1-1 tags in delivery and get no gamma shift across all media. Simple as that. You still work in whatever color space you want lol
Surely storing the “display Lut” in the Display lut slot in Resolve preferences. Solves the problem of turning the final Node on and off. At delivery. Or does that output slot only apply to a clean feed output path?
Same question - worth a try to see.
@@TheRealBarkinMaddI leave this here in case someone comes back with test results 😂
So helpful, thanks Cullen! When adding film look related nodes, they should now be placed in between CST OUT & macOS node?
I'd suggest putting any and all look nodes before your output CST!
This deserves a BIG THANK YOU!!
Thanks for the video. What calibration device would you recommend for my Apple Studio Display? I've heard too many conflicting reports! Cheers.
I want to know as well. I currently have a $300ish LG monitor with a Datacolor SpyderX Pro calibrator. I'm guessing that's not good enough. Saving up for an Apple Studio Display. Reference monitors are waaaaay out of my budget.
Great video tnx. One question though, is this good for outputting a DCP for movie theatre screening?
Cullen, thanks for all the videos you put out. I reference your material often. And as a result I feel my grading has massively improved. I'm not a colorist by trade, but rather wear many hats.
However, I have a question. This video specifically focuses on Apple displays.
I use an ASUS ProArt and have been searching everywhere to figure out the best option to solve shifting. I have an UltraStudio 3G set up. Monitor is set to 709/2.4. I know recently you've been suggesting 2.2 for web. But I'm currently working on a short film that will live beyond web or Vimeo. However as I export for reviews I'm still experiencing massive shift in black levels between DR and what I see in QT exports. (I've done all the DR settings like 10 bit, Mac colors, 709a)
I've been setting my Mac system settings to 709/2.4 for viewing. In this scenario, given my Mac Studio and Asus Monitor, would using the default Display P3 in my OS system settings for viewing after export be the best scenario for accuracy? When I remove the Ultrastudio and view the export on the same monitor with the same settings I get completely different results when it comes to contrast/black levels.
I've air dropped to my iPad Pro and at full brightness is matches what I'm seeing in DR pretty well. Looks horrible in reference mode.
I'm just feeling really lost on how to create a solid level of consistency when viewing across different monitors after export.
So a basic take on this is that IF I am running with a colour accurate reference monitor which is connected to BMD Ultrastudio to bypass colorsync altogether - It would be correct to simply target rec709 2.4 and deliver to that as well?
I'm mainly thinking of content that would go out to multiple platforms - TV and the interwebs to be exact. Or would you do any kind of a trim for internet content?
Great question Petur! We'll be covering this in greater depth soon, but short answer to your question would be yes. Mastering gamma 2.4 in dim surround and then playing back on a 2.2 display with bright surround (most common web viewing setup) will give you a rough approximation of what you saw while mastering.
@@CullenKelly - Great - Look forward further deepen my understanding of this all - The main thing is that I would like to get as close as possible in one go if that's possible .. If not then I would of course be prepared to make the necessary adjustments.
Is the MacOs viewing transform for macbook pro displays or for external displays? I mean can I use it for my 15 inch MacBook display? I dont get it. Please help!
I’m using a 2017 iMac Pro and also an Apple TB Display. Your LUT saved me a lot of work as it has been challenging for months now to get the displays calibrated using a DataColor SpyderX calibration tool and DisplayCalc. With the latter, there is a yellow shift versus using the P3 (Default) gamma profile. I understand this is a year old post but I will ask… will you be kind enough to share how to use a calibration tool with DisplayCalc to calibration an Apple display? Thank you for this video and the LUT.
Bro question: how can I use cineon film looks when I have resolve color management on ?
YES! I was waiting for a video by you on this specific topic, owning two Pro Display XDRs.. there is so much nonsensical information out there on this topic.. Thx Cullen, you're the man! Any advice on a calibration solution for the pro Display XDR? Is there any way to do this with lesser devices than the 15.000 $ ones that apple suggests?
And the second question- I guess you output with Gamma 2.4, right? The Lut inverse-compensates while viewing for the 1-1-1 file tagging that lifts the image when viewed in the browser, right?
Fantastic. Hill Cullen, i have a great grading set up at home but now i’m flying a lot & might need to just grade on the new iPad Pro. I would love to know accurate setting alone on the iPad, maybe just for online exports. Also… what if my iPad pro was connected to my windows PC but using the new Remote Monitoring’ set up as a reference display. Any settings change there?
I assume you don’t have windows but the iPad alone question i would love to know.
Many thanks 😊
ipad has no colorsync, this issue is tied only to macos.
Wow, thank you Cullen!
What about the macOS auto-brightness setting, Cullen. On my MacBook Pro, it has this enabled by default and of course this has a huge impact on the display brightness and simply cannot be used as a reference setting (or am I really missing something)? My first thought was to use on of the MacBook reference monitor presets such as the HDTV 709 bt1886 (?) which also disables True Tone and auto brightness. Thx.
Keep seeing this popping up, but no actual video talking about it. Maybe a pretty recent addition and most haven't caught up yet? Any article or link on this particular setting? I'm curious!
I found this:
Learn about reference modes
You can use the reference modes included with your display to match the production requirements of HDR, HD, SD video and other media types. Each reference mode sets the colour space, whitepoint, gamma and brightness on your display.
This section provides details about each reference mode included with your display.
Apple XDR Display (P3-1600 nits)
On MacBook Pro, use this mode for general home and office environments. This mode is based on the wide colour P3 primaries used by Apple displays and includes Extreme Dynamic Range (XDR) support up to 1,600 nits (peak).
Pro Display XDR (P3-1,600 nits)
On Pro Display XDR, use this mode for general home and office environments. This mode is based on the wide colour P3 primaries used by Apple displays and includes Extreme Dynamic Range (XDR) support up to 1,600 nits (peak).
Apple Display (P3-500 nits)
Use this mode for general home and office environments. This mode is based on the wide colour P3 primaries and supports a brightness range of up to 500 nits typical of Apple built-in displays. On Studio Display, this mode appears as Apple Display (P3-600 nits) and supports a brightness range of up to 600 nits.
HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)
Use this mode for high-definition video production workflows targeting the ITU-R BT.709 and BT.1886 recommendations. This mode is designed for controlled viewing environments set up per ITU-R BT.2035.
Digital Cinema (P3-DCI)
Use this mode for motion picture and post-production workflows using the P3 theatrical colour space and digital cinema whitepoint. This mode is designed for controlled viewing environments set up per SMPTE RP 431-2:2011.
Digital Cinema (P3-D65)
Use this mode for motion picture and post-production workflows using the P3 theatrical colour space with the D65 whitepoint. This mode is designed for controlled viewing environments set up per SMPTE RP 431-2:2011.
Internet and Web (sRGB)
Use this mode for content creation workflows targeting the web or other internet-based uses. This mode uses the broadly supported sRGB (IEC 61966-2-1:1999) colour space per the W3C CSS Colour Module Level 3 recommendation and is designed for appropriately set up and controlled viewing environments (64 lux is recommended).
No OS auto brightness solution should ever be used. Best scenario is, you always do color workflow in a dark room, or at least a room, with the same level of light, no matter the time of day.
Some monitors with 3D LUT box build in, can have a light sensor, for auto adjustment, and some calibration software, can auto adjust according to ambient light, via the colorimeter. But best option is really to disable it all, and always do color workflow in a dark room.
For SDR, a calibrated monitor between 80-120 luts/nits is ideal, and for HDR, anything above 600 nits, and ideally 1000 nits.
Yep, auto-brightness should be disabled (even though I mistakenly left it on in this recording 😂)
@@CullenKelly but then what brightness level should you set your display to? This seems to be critical, otherwise all bets are off regarding what the image looks like to you vs the rest of the world. Full brightness? Half Brightness? 38% brightness?
Thanks! Is this also applicable to third party external monitors such as the ProArt series? Does the ‘LUT’ work as it would with the Apple Studio display?
Can i put the viewing transform on the timeline nodes to be easier turn off? I think its applied after the clip timeline?
Is it safe to infer then that I need to calibrate my iMac display *not* as 2.4 but rather *2.2* for a truly realized image-- even if output in DaVinch is gamma 2.4?
If you send a clean signal (via decklink) to your monitor, then your output color space and gamma should coincide (if output color setting is rec 709 2.2, that your monitor should be set and calibrated for rec 709 2.2). On the flipside another approach with a "normal" monitor via hdmi for example (not betting my life on this) is that you calibrate your monitor targeting your monitor native space, in case for newer macs it's P3 D65 , hence leaving to OS color management (colorsync for apple) to do the transformation from your output color space (let's say rec 709 2.2) to P3 D65. In my mind it should be the same if I set the output color space to something different when I EXPORT. But Cullen would probably tell you that the correct workflow would be to change color management AND output color space to your target export, check that everything is ok, then export to that same space and gamma. I really hope my answer is correct, and clear enough. If someone has informed corrections or considerations, please don't restrain yourself!
Answer to myself: No. Just tell Davinci Export that you wish to use a 2.2 gamma profile baked in
Thanks a lot! But I don’t get what are export gamma settings? 2.2 also for mp4 export?
Thanks
Does it work the same with the video clean feed ?
What would be the settings to benefit of the entire ColorSync profil of the Apple Display (Gamut P3D65 & Gamma 2.2 with 300 nits) ?
Why not put the lut in Project Setting ➧ Color Management ➧ LUT ➧ Color Viewer LUT, instead ?
Hi Cullen, I am working with Nikon NRaw files and I am using the nikon red luts. This lut already has a rec 709 Output colour Space. But I dont know the exact gamma curve. If its 2.4, do I have to make Another cst to put a rec 709 2.4 into a rec 709 2.2? Thanks
Hi long time listener first time caller! I have an HP z31 they don't have HDR but they have the same color reproduction if not better. I usually run them in the Native color space preset, should i be using DCI P3 D65?
@CullenKelly what purpose do the reference mode serve in the studio display? Can you not use those as “reference transforms” instead of adding a LUT?