How to Color Manage using Nodes in DaVinci Resolve
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2023
- I explore how you go from scene to screen in DaVinci Resolve by color managing with nodes.
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it's kind of weird.. i'm addicted to color grading tutorials lately. i'm just sitting in front of my computer, drinking coffee and watch color grading tutorials like it was a netflix series. I love the way you talk and explain thinks. instant sub! great work
Well said. it's
new every day.
I am surprised that these lessons don't get more likes. Yes, they are boring to listen but they are SO useful for learning Davinci Rosilve and the whole process of color grading.... thank you, Cullen!
I understand coloring so much better since I found Cullen's channel, it's changing how I light and shoot. I can't wait to take one of his workshops.
Good Stuff, I think I will start using Nodes for color management instead of Project Management. I agree with the "visualizing the journey" part.
Great explanation in a clear and concise manner. Thanks Cullen!
as always Cullen, this is really fantastic Info!
You have got me in a few months to a new level of color grading. Even that far, i can teach a little to other creatives in my small town in Austria.
I also bought your Pro LUT Pack, they are working beautifully
As always, excellent job Cullen. Very concise explanation that is easy to digest at any level. You are a true educator and a great role model to all content creators on TH-cam!
This is the best video on the subject! So many people are confusing node-based colour management with "no colour management", or think it is somehow inferior to project-level colour management :) Another huge benefit is the ability to bypass the timeline-level display transform and creative look, sometimes we have to do it for graphics. To do this, I have to move the display transform and creative look to the group level (by copying to each group's post-clip level). Not the most convenient implementation in Resolve, but it works. I also follow your recommendation to debayer raw footage in the project settings directly to DWG, so it does not require the pre-clip CST and works really fine. Love your Pro LUT pack as well, so beautiful and flexible!
POWERHOUSE 22 MINUTES! Great explanation! Thanks so much for this. You really tackle so many nuances that can create confusion in a very intuitive way. Nice work and thanks again!
You're a godsend! I have been learning so much the last couple of days. Thanks you so much.
Absolutely helpful infact a lot of confusion i had about colour managing using node had been cleared by this tutorial i watched it over and over again now it sinks well and deeply thanks a lot for your detailed teaching method Cullen more grace to you sir
thank u Cullen for so much knowledge, u are the best man
this was a really good one. definitely +1 on wanting the luminance mapping deep dive video
Great work. Thx for sharing.
Loving the haircut Cullen!
Very much helpful, thank you.
Learned this from you & and getting revised was from you it self was really beautiful 🙂thank you
always great
I needed this...thanks Cullen!.
This Was Great, Thank you so much Sir.
This was excellent. A++
Super thanks!
super helpful thank you!
Great info
another gem.🔥🔥🔥
I know this video is a few months old at this point, but I'd love a video about Tone Mapping!
Just gonna pop this into the YT either to say I'd love to hear your OOTF, Tone Mapping and general nerding out info video as a follow up. Cheers for the lessons.
I actually want to ask about pre-clip and post-clip grouping when you show your Sci-Fi movie color grading on your previous video. Glad you instinctively making a video about it. Thank you so much!
How the heck did I miss the tone mapping all this time!!! I have used your techniques for many months now but missed on the tone mapping aspect. Thank you!
Very detailed. This might help people that kind of got it before to really get it. Nice job. Interesting to process the rec709 by itself like that - I now wonder why the rec709 when using Resolve color management doesn't look like it's transformed twice? In fact in a lot shots, the RCM rec709 looks better to me.
I guess in a real life situation there would be a rec709 group then? I was up til now - putting the DWG to rec709 on the post of the groups and since the rec709 was not in a group, they weren't being double processed. I'll have to give this method a shot.
Thanks for video.
A Color Space Transform from Rec709 to DWG is the exact inverse of a Color Space Transform from DWG to Rec709, assuming the tone mapping settings aligned. The Rec709-to-DWG transform will stretch out (tone map) the tonal range of the Rec709 into DWG and the DWG-to-Rec709 display transform will compress it back to its original range. Thus, the input transform and the display transform cancel each other out leaving you with your original result. This is why it's important to have a display trasnform which is invertible. I believe ACES has had some issues with exactly this.
This is exactly why I was suggesting this in the group the other day. Also remember that depending on source file tagging, in RCM, the input space may or may not need adjustment.. Most 2.2 or 2.4 will get set properly... but if not.. it usually gets set to 709 Scene. Always bypass and check for a NULL result comparatively with any transform of 709 IN/OUT.
Why not use a managed color workflow (project settings) that automatically detect raw footage for example, then just use nodes for shots that need it? I'm still curious as to why the manual approach is better? For example I shoot mostly braw. It's far easier for me to set my project color settings to managed and use DWG, then I don't need a CST on my braw clips. It's automatic.
Good stuff Cullen. Really like this approach... I have been using color shift tools from mononodes (DCTLS) and this fits right in. One thought: somebody might ask why you did not use the post group output vs timeline level for the 2nd CST into REC 709.
Thanks a lot for the insights. It’s always refreshing to see new ways and forms of addressing color management differently. One question still bothers me a lot with node level color management. What if I have two different cameras with different raw files. How to address these separately. In the RCM workflow it is done under the hood. But in this specific case you can only select one raw format.
Same question. If I have two different RAW camera files, should I use the RED profile and Color Science anyway?
Any tips for coloring monochrome projects? Your videos have been invaluable, thank you!
Would love a video on Tone/Gamut Mapping from the CSTs indeed!
brilliant
Great work, Cullen! If possible, could you please teach us the proper color management workflow when recording Prores Raw, then converting it into Cinema DNG and finally, bringing it into Davinci Resolve? TIA
yea currently strugging in this area..As of now doing Blackmagic film->Davinci WG/Int workflow. Still experimenting the work flow
I've been there. Look what your CDNG convertion is using as a gammut. If u use Atomos Pro Player, u can make sure that you're using the same gammut as shot.
(Latest version can handle V Gammut output)
In resolve, use the camera raw data tab in project setting to make sure resolve use the right gammut for your raw sequence. Then you can use CST to grade in DWG for example, then CST Out to rec 709
@@alexandreear I purchased the assimilate license to convert prores to CDNG. Honestly idk what gammut it's using.
@@photoartisansecuador If u have the latest version, you can select the gamut, in that case, V-Gamut
This is great!
This makes me wondering how do you approach DSLR clips into your workflow?
Like that rec.709 clip?
Or there is a much better way to deal with that kind of clips?
great
Love it cullen i was like where was cullen go 😂❤
This is a game changer tutorial for Node based CM. The only question I have is how is the project color management set-up?
Great video,
Do you prefer color grade your video in Aces or Color transform?
Given that project settings and node based color mgmt give you the same end result, what are the reasons that the
proj settings screen does not ask for some of the same settings that you have to type in for the CST - e.g. “Tone Mapping: Luminance mapping; Use custom max input; use custom max ouput; etc”
Curious about this as well.
Exactly
Great walkthough, thank you! I have been using your project management workflow the last couple years but think I will switch to the node based color manage because I normally am working with 2-3 different cameras. Not sure if I missed this information in the video but a question I had for the benefit of using node based over project based color management ~ is it better to use node based because you can group each camera individually where project based you can only target one cameras color space?
Hey Dominic! Color managing manually with nodes does give you a bit more flexibility, however, you are still able to select each clip's input color space when managing at the project level. I personally like to be able to visualize the color pipeline within the node graph as well!
maaan I just started using Project-level colour management yesterday after watching those videos from earlier on in the channel
and today I find this
Correct me if I am wrong, but when the output CST and look are applied at the timeline level, they also affect all the texts and other medias that shouldn't (most of the time) be affected. Why don't you apply those at the group levels? Thanks Cullen!
same question
Great question! You can choose to apply them at the group level if you want!
You need to cst those on the clip level. Timeline level cst also influences what dissolves look like.
@@simonrabeder1599 Using them at clip level means that you have to copy and paste the CST nodes on every clip.
It's more convenient to use the CST nodes at group level to save time and effort.
@@bastienchill That's what I'm doing and it works fine with Groups. Next question is if we should/could move LUTs/ Halation/ Texture to the Post-Clip tab, now sitting empty.
Okay, in all your previous videos I understood that you prefer Color Management in the Projects Settings. If I want to output for film festivals which Color Space would that be and does your Voyager Pack work for that as well? THANKS
Awesome video! Thanks for posting! I’m a bit confused on what the Color Management project settings should be. Do the CST’s override that?
I was wondering the same thing.
can you do a video on the Bleach bypass look? I've seen tutorials do it in rec7009 space, but it doesn't seem to work the same in DWG. Thank you!
Bleach bypass is basically a contrast push without the color component. This is how the HDR wheels work as well when you add or decrease luminance so that's a good place to start.
@@Huttersvuur true but cullen always manages to find the most efficient way of doing things so id be interested in his take
If color managing in nodes like this, should global project settings be left as default?
Or does it not matter as the node-based management will take precedent?
Hi Cullen, Great tutorial. I'd like to ask the best way to color manage video that is not recognized by Divinchi. I.e Olympus OM1 log-400. Can I still use the concept of working with DWG intermediate? The input transform is where I'm unsure. I've experimented and assumed the OM-log-400 is based on REC2020, and input as REC2020, This has offered fair color point, that isn't to far off. Then after DWG intermediate I output to REC709. What would you suggest to try that may work better? AS OM log-400 isn't supported by Divichi, may be it will always be more display based graded? Thanks for your time. Merry Xmas
What are examples of situations where we would want to grade after the final rec 709 CST or the before the first input CST?
Cullen thanks for your teachings! Can you please answer this question which seems no one can give you a clear answer to.
If I have raw footage which I convert to blackmagic design film from the raw tab and then I wish to apply the Davinci Arri lut logc to rec709, should this node go first or last after all the adjustments? thank you!
Cullen: have you thought about LABELING YOUR TUTORIALS with regard to experience level? Say, "BEGINNING," "INTERMEDIATE" and "ADVANCED?" Always enjoyed your deeper dives and theory about how things work. This video would be called "Entry Level." Yeah, I know: most TH-cam channels seem to be only a vehicle to "funnel" their viewers into paid courses, and so are self-limited to entry level, omitting critical info. But viewers like me appreciate the shared knowledge of a veteran like yourself -- without the chagrin of buying a course only to find, too late, it was a phantom promise that under-delivered. Hoping to see more of the fruits of your significant experience and valuable perspectives, not just how to turn basic Davinci knobs.
For MacBook Pro users with an external display (Asus for example). The Output Gamma of the OUT CST is Rec.709-A or Rec.709 2.4?
Project
Color Science: YRGB
Timeline: WG/intermediate
Output: Rec.709-A
Out CST
Output Color Space: Rec.709
Output gamma: Rec.709-A
Export
Output Color Space: Rec.709
Output gamma: Rec.709-A
Its ok?
Do you have to setup the color space with every project? I see the benefit but this add a ton of time everything you start a new project as opposed to project managed color space. Is there a way some how save the structure to be reused on a different project?
How do you set RAW settings at the project level if you have more than one type of RAW
For instance blackmagic BRAW and cdng in the same project?
I have tried to change to this from project level RCM. I grouped all my clips and appllied the nodes as described to my flattened mulicam timeline. I then tried to use remote grading for each clip, but them all the clips in the timeline got oversaturated as soon as I selected "remote grade"for the first clip. Is there a reason for this? Can I not use remote grades within a group?
Does anyone know if you use a rec709 out instead of cat. How would you make that go out to gamma 2.2? Would you have to do another color space and enter the input as rec709?
İ am gonna grade p3 dci gamma 2.6 project with idt and odt. At odt what is the nit level set to be?
Fantastic info as usual. Is there a trick to make this work in with multicam compositions? I currently work in RCM from the project settings but I feel like I don't have granular control over certain things like graphics and tone mapping, I like to get my multicam footage in a usable place from within the mutlican comp itself. Then complete the grade in the final timeline. I have a mixture of graphical and text elements so I use an adjustment layer for my overall look and layer the other elements above that outside that adjustment layer. So I can't simply place a CST at the end of the timeline to convert to my deliverable color space. At least I don't think I can. Any advice?
I struggle with this too. I’m most likely missing something trivial, but I seem to have to grade one multicam clip and then copy that grade to all the other “clips” using the same base clip (same camera/clip) instead of being able to grade each clip once and have it affect all the clips/instances of that clip in the multicam timeline.
My main issue is that I can't have an output transform to Rec.709 inside the multicam timeline because that affects the entire project, which in turn affects other assets in the main timeline. I apologize and am not explaining it very well! @@robfxdls
@@BigFlavorFilms Sound like my issue is different from yours. In your case (and perhaps in mine) perhaps Color managing via the project settings may be easier and just as good a solution?
This was great video and it helped explain concepts that I've implemented, but did not know why I was using. I did however have another question.
If you were to use an Input and Output CST like in this video, converting to a working space with greater range, would there be any point to use a conversion LUT like the ones built into DaVinci? Very often I follow this approach by converting to 709/cineon log film than using a conversion LUT right after my output CST. Is this a good method? Is it counterproductive to be using both of these instances? I've heard that conversion LUTs basically do what this method does and I want to be sure I am not destroying my footage.
The most important thing would be to make sure you know exactly what the LUT is expecting, along with what it is returning. In the case of the Resolve Film Looks, they're were built to return Rec709 with a gamma of 2.4. So in this example, we wouldn't need a traditional ODT like we would when using something like my Voyager LUTs since those are purely creative transforms. Hope that helps!
@@CullenKelly That makes more sense. Thank you for the response!
Cullen, I noticed that whenever I set my Luminance Mapping to the settings in your video, my highlights drop significantly, whereas in your video there was virtually no change whatsoever (~7:27 for reference). My project settings and pipeline are exactly like yours, but I'm getting this huge exposure drop upon checking that Luminance Mapping section, which is making it almost impossible to get any kind of detail in skies, for instance. Please advise.
Using this node based color management what are the Project settings?
may I ? :
projet : DaVinci YRGB (not managed)/ Timeline space color : DWG intermediate / Targeted timeline's space : Rec 709 gamma 2.4
👍👍👍
thanks for the video!
could someone explain why setting the tome mapping method in the CST in to "None" instead of DaVinci?
Really looking forward to see your video about Tone Mapping and Gamut Mapping! :D
Tone Mapping is basically an irreversible process that takes you out of a scene referred space. Yes, it is technically invertible but not with the tools built into Resolve and to reverse it is a poor idea in general.
Thus, if you want to remain in a scene-referred space and have accurate transforms to scene linear or accurate exposure adjustments etc, you want those transforms to have Tone Mapping set to None. That's why the IDT and also right clicking on a node and setting the gamma both have no tone mapping.
@@thatcherfreeman Thanks Thatcher. My thinking was that DWG is a larger gamut ( for pretty much most footage ) and the tone mapping is not needed because there would be no hard clipping of luma values or saturation. That was only an assumption though.
@@JimRobinson-colors There is an issue that some camera gamuts do extend outside of DWG. If you're having problems with that, my recommendation would be to use something like the saturation compression gamut mapping in the IDT, but I still wouldn't use Tone Mapping in the IDT in that scenario for the reason I previously described.
@@thatcherfreeman You misread my comment - I'm not having problems with your comments at all. I was explaining what I assumed the ( no tone mapping ) reason to be. Never claimed a problem. In fact was thanking for your explanation above.
@@JimRobinson-colors Oh I didn't think you had an issue with my comment, I just wanted to address your discussion point about large camera gamuts, which is absolutely a valid issue and a great thing to bring up. I just think that if you were to run into oversized primaries (say, with RED footage) it *may* be better addressed via saturation compression than doing nothing or tone mapping.
There's maybe even an argument to be made about whether tone mapping should be used if the camera's dynamic range exceeds DaVinci Intermediate, which like you said, is rarely the case. Even then, I might argue the answer in principle is still no, but then you may have highlights that are >100% in DI that could be a little annoying to manipulate and control just due to Resolve's UI. Overall, I think the best thing to do is just to be aware of the downsides of each tool so you can know when you want to make compromises.
How come you did not put a colour space transform on the output on the Red footage? As in going from davinci wide gamut intermediate to Rec. 709 (like you did with the Arri footage)?
How can we work?
At around 6:50 in the video when you select the "timeline" dot. I do not have a node that populates. I have nodes for Group pre-clip, clip, group post-clip. But nothing for timeline. Any advice?
Hey Matt! Try adding a serial node either by right clicking in the node graph or by using opt + s. Resolve won't typically add a node there for you like it does at the other three levels.
Thank you for the information.
I'm curious if I have a non managed project setting color management timeline (working) space in DWG Intermediate but created a ACES node based color management pipeline and was working in ACEScct (node based) will my panel controls be DWG Intermediate or ACEScct?
You're probably wondering why I would do such a thing. Well I've been creating a Color Management Pipeline shootout before I decide what node based pipeline I was to commit to per project. That's why I ask.
Thank you.
Hey Maurice! The short answer is either “neither” or “both”, depending on how you look at it. Happy to discuss further in Grade School, but for now I’ll just say you really always want your Timeline Color Space dropdown in Project Settings to match whatever space you’re actually working in (ACEScct in your example). When these are mismatched, you’re not creating custom color management, you’re essentially guaranteeing incorrect behavior on Resolve’s part. But gotta say, I love your thinking here!
@@CullenKelly Thank you for your response. I would love to touch on this further in Grade School. If I'm not mistaken you do those on Friday mornings correct?
Cullen, how does this type of colour management work with proxies in Davinci and what's the best sort of work flow to deal with proxies? Say if I was bringing in a 4k 10-bit DJI H.265 D-log file and wanted to create a proxy to help my system better cope with the playback while editing, how would this effect what I'm doing with managing colour spaces? If it's not a simple answer, any chance of a video on the topic? Thanks.
Great question! Typically when we are in the grade, we would be using the original footage instead of a proxy.
@@CullenKelly okay thanks. So work flow wise you could use your proxies while editing, then when you move to grading just swap back to the originals?
That's correct!
If you use this node approach, what should your project settings be? Would they be different than they would be if you were doing the project color management approach?
Yes! In this example, we are using Davinci Wide Gamut/Davinci Intermediate as our timeline color space and Rec709 gamma 2.4 as our output color space. I would be sure to set both of those to match within the color management tab of our Davinci Resolve project settings.
@@CullenKelly Thanks
With the CST and LUT at the timeline level, how to you get from under it for things you don't want it to apply to? For instance graphics.
Great question! Here’s a video showing several different methods for applying your CST and or look globally while still mainintaing flexibility for things like graphics: th-cam.com/video/ReHA9bhT168/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HchZFGtJX6tAA_r6
@@CullenKelly Thanks. Seems like an adjustment clip might be the way to go for me since I'm using group clips for camera CSTs
What's the purpose of the 'post-group clip' section?
How come you're applying your look before the rec709 conversion?
Ideally, we're doing all of our grading within that "working color space." In the case in this video, that would be Davinci Wide Gamut/Davinci Intermediate. It's a good rule of thumb to setup your look and do all of your grading in a scene referred color space, vs a display color space like Rec709.
@@CullenKelly Right! That makes sense.
There should be a way to redirect people from the maze of confusing flashy and loud, color grading TH-cam tutorials towards this channel. If there is a grade school chapter of this episode it would be great to learn more about the advantages of managing in notes, some examples on when and why it would be convenient to do something after the 709 OCT.
Cullen, why you are posting same video over and over again?
They are variations i think and sometimes refreshers. some were done over a year or two so it's nice and i think welcome. Also it's not the easiest to come up and curate a video on grading every single week.
people still ask for it!