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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
- DaVinci Resolve has some Color Space Aware Grading Tools. How to use them, which ones are they and how to use the Timeline Color Space and set it up correctly all shown here by Senior broadcast Colorist Darren Mostyn. This episode is suitable for all ability levels, beginners to experienced.
I have personally edited the English subtitles for accuracy.
Best watched all the way through as lots of info here !
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#resolve18 #timelinecolorspace #davinciresolve
This is by far..BY FAR one of the best tutorials on this topic on TH-cam. I am the biggest fan of this channel, thank you, Darren, so much for sharing
You're very welcome! Thank you so much, it is appreciated.
Finally, someone explained this difficult topic in an understandable way. Thank you so much!
same here. finally , understand what is input,timeline & output mean.
@Solvegia Sure it is. Every Colorist has his own, unique way of Grading. Workflow to any colorist plays an important role when grading. I found the old, golden method of manually using the CST technique instead of relying on the Resolve alone to perform it's algorithm to convert to color spaces. Which one did you find promising? @Darren Mostyn First, I convert from Slog3.Cine Slog3 to Arri Gammut 3 ArriLogC3, perform exposure corrections using Curves, Balance the Image using Offset, Contrast, Primaries, Saturation, Color Cast, Basic Grade, then convert it from Arri Gammut 3 ArriLogC3 to DWG INTERMEDIATE, see if a LUT is working, convert to Rec.709 and start performing furthur global setting required beneath the last conversion which is Rec.709(after a LUT). My question is, irrespective of what color space you convert your footage into, if the timeline color space is set to DWG Intermediate and the output is set to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4, is there a need to convert to DWG during the workflow? I'm looking at a 100% Rec.709 BenQ SW270C monitor(Factory Calibrated) Also, does my workflow make any sense to you? Tell me if I'm wrong
Ditto for me. Thank you the great content. Just watched a few so far and they were game changers for my understanding of the colourspaces in Resolve. Thanks!
Darren, you’re a complete and utter star. Your tutorials are so wonderfully simple. Plus, I love the fact that you don’t do the American-style 10 minute intros explaining what you’re about to do. You just jump right in. Thanks so much. John
Glad you like them John. Appreciated. New episide coming very soon!
Those damn Yanks
Great explaination, Darren. Color Transform is a very tricky beast to tame but once understood, does wonders to your workflow
Absolutely brilliant and a very very clear explanation and demonstration of the timeline color space. Thank you so much Darren!!
Darren, I have worked in production for a long while now. Your videos are on an another level, especially here on YT. Well done.
Thank you Darren, this is currently the BEST video on TH-cam to explain how to get the most gamma from multiple cameras within the timeline/deliver colour space. Nobody ever mentions non log (baked in) footage, and/or multiple camera formats. Don't know why it's never mentioned because in real world video editing tasking it happens more often than not. There are far too many videos about LOG footage grading and colour space set ups, so this video is very refreshing and certainly much needed. Thanks again. Great advice on a fantastic channel. Would love to also see a video dedicated ONLY to working with NON LOG (baked in) footage to get the most from the available gamma. Currently a video does not exist on TH-cam. Crazy.
Well done! Very intuitive... I'm loving your tutorials. Thank you!
Thank you for simplifying this Darren.
Hi Darren, what a great explanation on such a underrated topic.
To be honest, it took me more than a year to get familiar with the concept of the 3 different color spaces and what those are about.
In the meantime, I tend do prefer the non-managed color science DaVinci YRGB, timeline colors space ARRI-Log C (for it's lovely highlight rolloff) to deliver in Rec709 Gamma 2.4
Honestly this was something I didn’t know that I didn’t know, thank you for enlightening me.
Great content, and I appreciate how to the point you explained everything.
Great demonstrations as well!
Glad to hear it! Appreciated Arthur.
Thanks Darren As Always A Breeze of Great Information, Thanks For Your Continuous Support For All Of Us Here!
Yes! Thank you! Best colorspace explanation ever! Coming from a print background, this finally makes more sense for the overall workflow! Thank you very much!
Thanks Darren, a patient explanation of a tricky subject. Appreciated as always.
Thank you - was a tricky one to plan this one, Hope it worked!! All the best and thanks again. darren
I was in need of a refresher to solidify my understanding for a project, so came back to watch this for, I think, the fourth time. This is an exceptional tutorial about color spaces, what they are, their relationship to each other, and how to work with and in them. You get an amazing amount of information into eleven minutes -- all of it perfectly clear. Thank you.
Great to hear! Thanks Adam. Really appreciated. Hoping to get another one out this week before resolveCon.
thank you so much Darren. i appreciate your hard work.
Great explanation, the most intuitive and easy-to-understand tutorial I have seen in five or six years, thank you very much!
I had to watch it maybe three times to stick with me since I'm still at exploring colour grading, but every video I watch of your channel I feel like I'm closer to becoming a great colourist such as yourself! Awesome video Darren, thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge about it!
+1 Great teacher but this one vid needs a few rewinds.
this is the best color space tutorial i have seen. thank you for making it so easy and understandable
You're very welcome Ronald! Just pinned your comment -appreciated.
Yep finally made sense! Thanks Mate, this is really valuable information!
Thank you so much, Darren - I love how ellaborative this is! I can’t wait to create greatness!
I've been doing a lot of research on this exact subject and have found it hard to keep up, but this video REALLY helped clear things up for me and I m so glad I've subscribed! Definitely will be referring back to this from time to time and thank you for making this and thank you for explaining this is a concise way!
Glad it was helpful. I work hard to give the best explanations I can based on real broadcast scenarios that I come across every day. Happy to share. Apprectiate your kind comments and of course your subscription shows appreciation the best for me.
Really easy to follow and well explained Darren.
For some that don't know what rec709 ( scene ) is:
The rec709( Scene) is the color space that most cameras give to rec709 - which was developed before the standards of 2.4 gamma was established in BT1886 which is the recommended gamma for High Definition flat panel displays.
Macs however still returns generic rec709 tags to gamma 1.96 which is the problem that many Mac users, that use their GUI for monitoring run into, where the preview in Quicktime doesn't match the GUI in Resolve. Should be noted that Mac users do have in Preferences to have Resolve automatically change input rec709 ( scene ) to rec709-a on input.
Just thought I would note that for people that want to dig into this deeper.
The mac colorsync gamma of non meta tagged or mistagged gamma issue is one of the most asked problems in the Resolve forums - almost daily.
I feel like that could be an addendum to this video you have done here, because to understand the issue, you need to understand all these terms and how they relate. To which you have laid out a foundation to explain and attempt to fix that issue. ( spoiler alert - it can't totally be fixed, but can be tamed )
Anyway thanks for putting out another quality video regarding color and the tools we use to work with them.
Although, I know the CST method is sound that you use ( and others ) I still wonder why we don't establish the correct color space at the front of the node tree and then add a CST at the end to send to display? I know that you are working with the tools under the display CST but can't understand how Resolve knows what space it is, without telling it what space? In almost every case in Resolve it doesn't process backwards - so logically if the colorspace hasn't yet been established, you are working under the CST, but in what space? I asked Cullen this and he does it the way you have illustrated here. Not sure I communicated the question properly though. Anyways glad to see another Mostyn tutorial. Made my Monday more interesting to say the least. Cheers.
Thanks Jim for your fine in depth and much welcomed synopsis....good reading! I guess that you could put a CST at the front and send its output to match the timeline settings and then at the end have the input be your timeline settings mapped to output ? I'll play with that. However I have different CST's set for each colour space on input - I dont use one generic, so Im telling Resolve what the input is on a clip by clip basis. You can also set NODES to behave in a color space just to throw another obstacle in the way. This hope fully explains the timeline color concept without confusing too many and of course CST workflow is the obstacle for me and you! We should, just work color manged really! Thanks for your support and I did promise a healthier episode this time than the last one I did!! All the best mate, Darren.
Regarding the CST method you mention in the end here, are you referring to a node based color management? With an IN node (from camera colorspace to working colorspace) in the very beginning, and then an OUT node (from working color space to display) at the very end? That’s the way I work and although it requires setting it up, that can be done very quickly, and then I’m in total control of the pipeline (which always feels good). Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel many colorists is doing it this way?
And that’s another thing about CM. This is all fairly “new” grounds to even the most experienced digital colorists when you relate it to the fact that film is hundreds of years old but digital colorgrading is still in its infancy. Everybody is learning, new stuff comes out and that’s one of the reasons that tutorials like this one is so valuable.
No, Scene is linear light scene, not display linear light. It uses OETF to convert to linear, not EOTF. When you color manage you are supposed to operate on scene linear light and only change to display linear light in the end. In fact you can display using scene light but you will have to match conditions outside and remove all glare from the sun. For a long time 2.35 which is after round on Sony LCDs became 2.4 was the only standard there is for TVs. It all got confusing when EOTF of sRGB was introduced.
Thanks Jim! I was JUST going to ask about rec709 scene. Darren, excellent as always! See you next time!
@@Resolve_This your workflow is done by many colorists to ensure that the wheels and other controls always behave the same.
Another great video. Thanks Darren! 🙏
Superb info, thank you very much for sharing your hard earned knowledge 😎
Clearly demonstrated and beautifully articulated tutorial.
It makes sense that working in DaVinci WideGamut in the timeline would give you more leeway and room to work worth. Perhaps I am missing something... but if you're going to deliver in Rec709 Gamma 2.4, and clipping would occur on the delivered file, wouldn't it be better to just work in Rec709 in the timeline to know exactly what you are going to get on the final output?
Is it not a choice between where the clipping will occur: the timeline or output?
Thanks for clarifying, and for your excellent tutorials. They are a joy to watch.
Great Tutorial, could you please give a brief explanation of why there’s such a big difference when setting the output gammas when working natively on mac screens (macbooks), since the only colourspace that gives accurate results is rec.709-A and all the others are way off in contrast ?
thanks Darren. You are the best
Incredible video. I've taken several masterclasses on grading and none have tackled color space as eloquently and to the point as this video.Thanks, man!
The video conflates gamut and transfer function - two totally separate attributes. The gamut differences shown using the CIE diagram are not at all the reason that his changing the timeline color space resulted in the brightness range difference of the image. What made the difference is the 100 nit max of SDR REC709 gamma 2.4 vs the 1000nit max to which he set it when using Davinci Intermediate/Davinci Wide Gamut.
That is a fair point however doesn't alter what the timeline colour space is for - I got unlucky I guess as was trying to show that the curves are color space aware only in RCM, had I adjusted temperature for eg you would see that the DWG makes a difference beyond the 100 - 1000 nits. A very hard episode to make this one. Thanks anyway James. The INPUT to TIMELINE does work in a larger colour space and not just nit level. All the best. Darren
@@DarrenMostyn You do great work! Serious props to you for making these videos and sharing them. Yes, this was a tough one. I realize the gamut also makes a difference. It's just that difference wasn't what was being demonstrated in the brightness changes to the image on screen in your video. Resolve itself shouldn't be defaulting to conflating gamut and gamma, and instead should default to having them as separate attributes (and Resolve should also be using the correct term transfer function instead of persisting in labelling it gamma). Too many users never realize because the separation of those distinct attributes remains hidden behind a check box.
For my thesis/research paper, I am still comparing color handling and approaches in different software and production environments. Its really frustrating to see many aspects are really only documented in terms of workflow steps and not in terms of exact technical nuance. (Critique is not geared towards you, but towards software/hardware manufacturers, including Blackmagic. You are working with what we got, I like your work.) In my current view of the analysis, multi-software color management needs more momentum towards open architectures and completely published profiles, better technical and theoretical agreements (keywords: relative and absolute scene-referred, color management systems vs workflows and color appearance models and the idea of what a "neutral digital image" is), as well as consistent use and implementation of labels describing any arbitrary operation that changes the appearance of color (directly and indirectly).
Well, Davinci follows standards very well.
@@lolerie I would suggest try using specific color appearance models or workflows in your color management approach (e.g. TCAM2), or try using BM camera profiles/transforms in software outside of Resolve. Or try using OCIO in Resolve. I can might agree many different standards are met, but its always a question what variable we are testing. And Davinci/BM, like many others, is definitely not a golden standard regarding documenting or publishing the exact math & algorithms applied.. especially regarding "color management"
@@BlackPantherElite well, ACES 1.3 should be very good, using CAMs in production is very dangerous though (latest big things is Oklab space, then CIECAM16 and IPT are all quite unstable, IPT of dolby vision maybe less so).
@@lolerie depends on your vantage point, but ACES, even 1.3, most definitely is not even being used in big productions but reversed, as Kevin demonstrated the working group in a meeting. I can also document this after numerous interviews with supes and tds on productions, but you are free to use what ever you want. My other points regarding OCIO implementation and publishing of profiles and other important info still stands. Our survey analyzed roughly 400 workflows in different production environments. But we are just analyzing and evaluating, not giving recommendations.
And your point on not using CAMs - take a look at what ACES does and wants to do, their documentation, RRT, transform concept, and discussions on ACEScentral are quite telling.
@@BlackPantherElite ACES 1.3 is literally 20 or so standards of SMPTE, Davinci released 1.3 support first! It is used by MANY many people. In Hollywood too. In other countries too. In fact look it up on TH-cam.
Thank you very much for sharing this video. My work doesn't involve video editing at all, but you've helped me recognize and solve a problem I had related to colour spaces.
Geez. This was great. I especially liked your subsequent tutorial on CST...that video is pure gold on a starting workflow. Thank you so much.
Thanks! You did a great job with this and I hope I understood correctly. So, can you please clarify that the view and corrections seen in a wide gamut timeline will correctly translate to a REC 709 output? Also, I think I've broken the code with the help of other videos I've watched but a common complaint is the difference in saturation seen in output files when compared to the timeline. I'm referring to using the Mac OS.
Yes, correct, but the MAC oSX thing is something else. see this video maybe to help th-cam.com/video/miMFE95G0kU/w-d-xo.html
@@DarrenMostyn Thanks, that was helpful and got right to the issue and fix!
Thanks for this Darren! Great explanation.
So, question: (for the sake of brevity, Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 = Rec while DaVinci Wide Gamut Intermediate = DWGI)
Let's assume source is BRAW from a Pocket 4K. Timeline is set to Rec and my output is set to Rec. It makes sense that everything will look the same from timeline to display. Same color space. So I push the exposure on the clouds like you did and get clipping. Right.
Now change the timeline like you did to DWGI and the clipping on the monitor changes.
This makes sense with a larger color space.
However, this is where it's not making sense: If my output is still Rec, how does the larger timeline color space back off on the clipping and then deliver this to a Rec output color space including more detail than the Rec timeline was able to do?
Does my question make sense? It seems like the Rec output should reintroduce that clipping.
The transforms that davinci uses to step down from a big colorspace and dynamic range to a smaller colorspace and dynamic range are rolling off highlights to preserve detail, which the curves or HDR wheels don't do on their own.
Thank you darren for sharing your knowledge!, really helpful, im this is my first year as a colorist trying to become better and better everyday, and your channel help me a lot! god bless
This was awesome! Thank you for doing this.
Hi Darren. Love your stuff, but I have a bit of an issue with this one. Mainly what you did is really a demo of the HDR to SDR tone mapping, not anything to do with color gamut sizes.
The highlight detail you see coming back is because switching over to Davinci WG/Intermediate automatically switches the default "Timeline working luminance" to "HDR 1000". Which is moving your luminance ceiling up, and tone mapping it back down to the 100 nit output. But if you set the working luma back to "SDR 100" it will look exactly the same in both Rec709 or Davinci WG working space. And alternatively, staying in a Rec709 working space and just switching the working luminance to HDR 1000 will give you identical tone mapping.
That is a fair point however doesn't alter what the timeline colour space is for - I got unlucky I guess as was trying to show that the cureves are color space aware only in RCM, had I adjusted temperature for eg you would see that the DWG makes a difference beyond the 100 - 1000 nits. A very hard episode to make this one. Thanks anyway Jeremy. The INPUT to TIMELINE does work in a larger space and not just nit level. All the best. Darren
I don't see the point if the final output is constrained to what it would be with a Rec709 timeline? What am I missing?
@@davidpringuer3553 my thoughts exactly
Does the automatic working luminance at HDR 1000 affect the export - when uploading to TH-cam the gamma has shifted and everything is a lot brighter/washed out and colour shift :(
Thanks for this Darren! I've started doing this with my new projects, great to have a lot more colour wiggle room, Subbed!
Amazing! This changed my world.
Thanks for your time creating this masterclass.
So helpful, brilliant explanation. thanks Darren.
Thank you! I have been so lost on this topic for a while until now!
This is by far the best video I have seen on TH-cam explaining this then I went down a rabbit hole on your channel man. I’m so glad I found it. You have brought my skills up into da Vinci turn out pretty feasible level. I left final cut, because it got limited and buggy so this just made my transition even easier. Thank you.
Excellent tutorial, thanks a million.
I cant thank you enough for how helpful this is. I've been having issues for ages and following along with this video has helped solve all the problems I was having. Thank you so much for all your free content.
To be honest this is the only source of information worth listening too. Clear explanations has really gone a long way to helping me!
I had to rewatch a couple time, but this video is GOLDEN, You just saved my life. Thank you so much
Super helpful Darren! Again!
Darren, thank you kindly for this video and your logical explanation. Your videos are helping me a lot.
Just two words, Absolute fantastic,
thank's Darren
Great explanation. I'm still a little confused about this topic, but this explanation has already cleared up some confusion. Thank you.
you nailed it man. appreciate the hard work you did on all your videos. I am actually watching your videos one by one even the ones that I already have some knowledge on them, you always learn something new from your videos. keep it up man.
Appreciate that Hamza. Thank you
Thanks for this - good that you showed the timeline colour space / input colour method first. You see so many people getting into tangles with CSTs unnecessarily.
I'm an Adobe PP user trying to work up the motivation to move to Davinci -when Adobe "fixed" their HDR workflow, it threw me into a tailspin and ruined all of my projects for nearly 2 months while I wasted countless hours on the internet trying to figure out what I was doing "wrong"... while frustrating, it forced me to try and learn color spaces. This was a little over a year ago, and they've since made the SLOG3 workflow functional -but it still sucks really bad.
This video has helped TREMENDOUSLY and has given me a bit moar motivation to finally make the big switch to Davinci. I'd be lying though, if I didn't say that I"m cautious of switching... The trend these days for companies is to sh.t on their customers after they've captured their intended marketshare, and further monetize (the already frustrating) interaction with their software.
ive been on resolve for over 14 years. I unsubscribed from Adobe Cloud over a year ago. Im happy.
Brilliant. Thanks Darren :)
So many helpful tips. Cant wait to learn more.
Thanks a ton Darren!
thank you! great explanation
Thank you so much Darren!! Explained with perfect simplicity!
Glad it was helpful!
You are a true blessing
That Really Does Make Sense! Thank you!
I really appreciate this video, thanks so much! I feel like other channels who make videos about this topic try to keep it super simple but as a result lack depth. Now I actually understand what I am doing!
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome tutorial 🙌🏼
Thank you, Darren. After searching a lot, I found several of your videos (this one and others) where you explain so cristal clear all the stuff related to the the color management and the CST. You have won another subscriber to your channel 🙂. Thanks a lot and I'll keep tunned to your upcomming videos.
Thank you for subscribing. Appreciated. Enjoy my curated playlists if you are stuck what to watch! I am running a 4 day LIVE masterclass (4 hours a day) starts in 10 days. link here if you want some information courses.darrenmostyn.com/aopcg-2023-nov/ . Aimed at beginners and covers steep by step all my techniques in a logical order including colour management and workflows and grading and balancing scenes in huge detail at a good pace. All the best, Darren
Great video Darren! Also, thanks in advance for making a video about CST's, really appreciate you getting to that!
Tbanks Thomas. Appreciated.
Wonderful video Darren. Really well explained. Thanks for this.
Very welcome Graham. thank you.,
Best tutorial ever. Keep up the great work!
This was excellent, definitely going to try this approach.
Thanks man, now this video is on my bookmark. Will watch this again and again until I understand it fully.
Appreciate you taking the time to explain the alchemy of colour space. Once I've watched it through a couple of more times and tweaked my own settings I'll understand more. Thanks again. Ian
You are most welcome Ian. Hope it helps. This was always going to be a tough one to explain well...hope I've done that!
I have watched a lot of tutorials about this, your's is the best! Finally somebody who explains both the project settings and CST workflows in one video!!! thank you
Glad it was helpful!
I have SO much to learn. Kinda got this and a couple others of yours on repeat.
🤯 mind blown, thanks!
You are a king sir. Thank you very much for all
the best! Such a great explanation - thank you Darren!
Thanks Chadwick, Really appreciate that.
very helpful thanks so much , keep up the good work
Thank you for making this in such a concise way, very informative!
Thank you
Best Davinci Tutorials, thank you very much!
Wonderful, brilliant, thanks
Darren, thanks for bein existed man, you made everything easier and smooth to us. god bless your work
Thanks Baher
Sos realmente un fenómeno, Darren! Te deseo la felicidad.
Thank you. And wish you happiness too.
brilliant explanation, thanks darren!
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you, by far the best youtube video on the subject!
Glad you think so!
Brilliant explanation as always! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Highly informative. Good stuff.
Thanks Darren! That helps a lot.
Glad to help!
Amazing stuff 👍
Great tutorial, thanks Darren!
thank you Jez
Thanks Darren!
My pleasure!
TKS! Perfectamente explicado
Thank you so much. Very helpful. Helps a lot to understand what is what, because it's an area where I got easily confused as a beginner.
Glad it was helpful!
Yoooo thank you, you really killed it. Very clear
wonderful💙💙💙
omg thank you for the info!
Its a very compact one, packed with detail guideline. Once again thanks.
WElcome
Fantastic! The Professor does it again. As another "Adobe Abandoner" I can't tell you how much your videos are easing my learning curve. This one super clear and well done. Your delivery kept me with you as you progressed. Thank you!
You're very welcome!thank you
Just subbed. This vid is a bit more advanced compared to my beginner level but I could still follow you through the video. You've got a talent for teaching!
Thanks very much and I'm looking forward to learning more from you.
Thanks for subscribing. Its really appreciated and glad that Im helping you on your journey!! Its a big programme so stick with it and learn small bits at a time!! I do also have playlists and there is a beginners one there too - but sounds like you have a good grasp now! All the best
Great info!!
Thanks for this video ! Amazing !
You have helped me take my video quality from good to amazing. Ty for all of your videos!
The comments that mean so much to me are these ones! Thanks for sharing! Good luck on your journey with colour! Darren