How to fix GAMMA SHIFT in DaVinci Resolve, Quicktime and Youtube
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I show you how I deal with the gamma shift issue on Apple devices in DaVinci Resolve. For me this trick has been working great and it allow me to have a master file for client delivery and a dedicated file for online delivery.
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If you work in a rec709 timeline, but your monitor is not hardware profilated to rec709 (Mac displays are usually P3), than you NEED to use Mac display color profile, in order to see a more or less accurate color representation.
Online is gamma 2.2 and QuickTime plays it at 1.96. The standard is gamma 2.4 but for online I export at gamma 2.2 and normal rec 709 and have no issues and it looks identical on my iPhone and iPad as a viewer and matches what’s inside davinci.
Cullen Kelly talks about this he’s a colorist. The main thing is exporting for what the video is gonna be used for, which most things for online is gamma 2.2.
Movies are gamma 2.4 which is why it’s more standard for that.
I hope that helps
Gamma 2.2 doesn’t work for me and for many other people that comment on that video unfortunately. It’s not that simple.
@@matteobertoli I have a Flanders and eizocg279x and MacBook pro and in my case the best workflow to make all images look the same is to set project settings in davinci as: timeline - rec-709A, output: same as timeline, but on export add both tags as rec709 (not a 709A). Important thing is to keep your MacBook backlight settings the same values as reference monitor - even a slight difference will affect the grade.
@@madmadboy i really don’t wanna grade in a rec709a timeline. Footage looks awful. I also mentioned at the beginning of the video that this is for regular filmmakers that do their own grade. Not everyone has 20k dollars to spend on monitors. In this video I am talking to people that use an Apple Display or a Macbook.
@@matteobertoli I’m just saying that this workflow gives the same results on flanders cannected to video card via SDI and on macbookpro monitor + eizo as UI screens. Btw. Flanders DM241 is not 20k 😉
@@matteobertoli If you have a MacBook with an XDR display you can select a reference mode in the display settings which correctly modify the display to show you Rec. 709 2.4.
Or: You use an IO device for a clean feed to eliminate all the color shifts for Macs and PC graphic cards :)
The solution… when I can finally afford one. But which would you recommend as a reliable entry level device?
@@KasbashPlays the i/o device is $130, that should be within budget for pretty much everyone doing somewhat critical color work that can't have a shift? Get the UltraStudio 3G Monitor and pair that with a good 1080p 24" monitor that is calibrated. The more pro, the better but even a smaller budget monitor will yield better results than the color shift stuff...
That's not how that works. You need to have quality assurance outside your master display.
It's not rocket science.
Grade 2.4, export 1-1-1. The end.
This problem is similar to mixing music, as there are SO MANY possible listening devices. Between 2005-2010, I mixed a lot of music that would end up on MySpace, TH-cam, etc., and each player did something sonically different to the track. Back then, I would ask my client which site they would prefer the tracks to be optimized for, and give them an “alt” mix with that sites name tagged at the end. They could use that track for that site, and it maintained my creative intent for their mix. Long story short… make two exports: one for standard viewing. and one for QuickTime. Let the client choose which they view and you’re done.
Good video. I recently switched grading in 709A because all my work is mostly for the web, however it is true that it's a weird starting point for coloring. Also film conversion luts and color grade transform are problematic when you grade in 709A.
The idea of having 2 master files is the what I also have been doing for some time. I had to screen one of my short films in a real movie theater and thank god I graded it with the Rec 709 gamma 2.4 timeline and in fact it looked perfect on the theater screen. When you grade in rec 709A it will look great on youtube but bad everywhere else...
I think I’m going to strip my kit back after watching this. Kit creep is a problem. Thanks for being so open and chill about it all.
Since all of my work ends up on the internet I simply set up timeline color space to Davinci Intermediate and Output Color Space to sRGB.
Same here 👋🏻 Works like a blast
Just tried that, but the export is washed out. If I select Mac Display then my entire project is desaturated, just as I show in this video
That’s crazy, maybe there’s something else I changed, but my exports are exactly the same as what I see in davinci
@@DanIvansonas someone who uses DWG, what are your timeline and output settings (along with export settings, if they’re different that is)? Thanks in advance.
@@matteobertoli This video will answer all your questions, enjoy!
What a lot of people don’t realize is that different web browsers also portray color differently. For example, Google Chrome is less saturated than Firefox. So “how it looks on TH-cam” also depends on the browser you’re using.
Correct, but for Safari and Chrome it looks identical to DaVinci so I think it’s good enough for me ahah
Even tho Im grading on a PC this was still very interesting. Like your process on how you solve this problem.
How do you set it on Windows for the output to be same?
There is no gamma shift in windows so you don't have to do anything@@rannovisuals
Video veramente veramente utile e realistico, bravo Matteo che non ti smetisci mai. Consigli pratici ed efficaci, non fuffa come spesso so vede online.
Se posso permettermi io adotto un sistema leggermente diverso, derivante da parecchie conversazioni e ragionamento con dei colorist. Bisogna prima precisare che coloro il progetto con un monitor separato e calibrato. Ovviamente in Rec.709 g 2.4 consegno il master e solo dopo approvazione, creo una versione separata per il web dove nel nodo in timeline mode inserisco un ODT di conversione in Rec. 709A. Il display va ovviamente off con i colori perché settato in Rec 709 g 2.4 ma il file per social, TH-cam, ecc... è quanto più simile allo standard broadcast che usiamo anche in tv (per altro dove lavoro 😅). In questo modo non devo davvero fare niente di più che applicare questo semplice CST è lasciare tutto il resto uguale. In pratica la stessa cosa che hai fatto tu Matteo con una strada parella ahahah
Grande Lorenzo! Ci ho provato col cst ma quello che vedo in Resolve è tutto sballato. Quindi dici che esportando quel file che vedo slavato in Resolve poi online si vede perfetto?
Thanks, very helpful video
Do your approach if you are okay with your footage looking a little flatter and washed out on Apple devices and normal other places. Do the Rec709-A approach if you are okay with your footage becoming slightly more contrast-y and vibrant on non-Apple devices. Personally I do the Rec709-A approach because I would rather have the extra punch than have my color become more flat and muted. It’s going to depend on your colorgrading style and intended audience. I like doing Rec709-A and then doublechecking in VLC (or just pulling it over to my TV quick).
Rec709a is not extra punchy, it’s awfully over saturated.
@@matteobertoli personally I think regular Rec709 looks too washed out on QuickTime and Apple devices on TH-cam, so I’d rather have a little more contrast and saturation. I do try to find a middle ground though and like I said, I check both while working because I have an LG OLED as a second monitor giving me the gamma 2.4 representation. I think there isn’t a one size fits all solution, but it’s most important to get the most accurate picture for the intended audience.
@@jeremiahkuehne2400 if you watched the video on quicktime is super crunchy, not washed out at all. On TH-cam is a bit de saturated
Wouldn't it be better to use davinci intermediate as the timeline color space?
Matteo i have the solution, turn mac view off and do the stuff u already did, just select rec.709 rec.709 in the export settings as output and you good to go, ur 2.4 grade will look the same cuz the video will be 1-1-1 but it will keep the exposure and everything how you graded it.
Doesn’t work for me
It's not about color difference, it's gamma shift, that's why my videos look lifted in the shadow areas, i hate this problem
I also did timeline nodes for diferent kind of exports (4k H264,HD H264, DNxHR) and used SMPTE color bars for reference when creating it, then saved as Powergrade Still for the future projects, thats the poor man solution when you don´t have a good calibrated monitor.
It is absolutely wild to color grade on mac laptop screen. Let me tell you, the TH-cam version matches your Quicktime because you open it from MAC :) Try to watch that TH-cam version from PC and windows browser, as far as I know it should also look like in VLC. The solution is to have a I/O device and an external monitor which is color calibrated, this way you bypass all the color profiles from GPU and see an actual video file in its purest form. Color is and tag the correct gamma for the delivery.
That’s why I never bothered chasing this crap. Now the huge issue is to find anyone I know that still uses PC 😂
If you want the video files to look same in VLC and Quicktime, this is what you can do (BUT note that it is still not correct way to color grade, because on different displays it will look more saturataed or desaturated because you are blindely coloring on your uncalibrated screen): Setup your Resolve from preferences: Use mac display color profiles for viewers and also tick Automatically tag rec.709 scene clips as Rec.709A. Once you selected this options from preferences, then go ahead to your project settings under color Management and set color scienece as Davinci YRGB COLOR MANAGED. SDR. SDR rec709. Now you can color grade and when exporting use the Color Rec709 and Gamma tag Rec709A. AND VOILLA now your VLC and QUicktime should display the same. BUT again, it is not the correct color, as it will still look different on different devices and if your client is opening the file from PC it may be more saturated and off colors bcs you colored it on MAC uncalibrated display.
@@dathofilms that’s the thing, I won’t go crazy about it when 99% of the stuff I shot ends up on a vertical reel
@@matteobertoli 😂well, soon we will be selling all the gear anyways as devices change and iphones gonna do some crazy dynamic range + low light and possibly adapt lenses.
If you're using the pocket 6k pro and have windows what would be the best settings ?
Hi, what about using a external monitor for mac and grading on that monitor, should i use Rec709 or 709A, i tried all and it all washed out or be increase contrast on TH-cam.
Thank you!!!
How to correct premiere pro without using Gamma correction lut to export? 2024 and we cannot export our colors as we see in premiere.
Tema molto interessante, ne ho discusso spesso con dei colorist professionisti e mi è sempre stato detto che dipende dalla destinazione del file. Per quanto riguarda i metodi secondo me è doveroso fare due file separati, uno per il web e uno per il cliente/proiezione. Il metodo Rec709/Gamma 2.4 è ottimo per consegna cliente/proiezione. Per il web sicuramente è necessario mettere mano alla color adattando la Gamma 2.4 a come viene vista su YT. Visto che non ho mai provato a fare dei test, proverò a verificare se sia sufficiente una CST oppure se è possibile creare una LUT universale che bilanci la gamma shift. Teoricamente applicando una LUT di conversione il file risulterebbe "errato" visto da mac o pc, ma "corretto" sul web. Infine direi che QuickTime può anche rimanere in un angolo a piangere, crea solo problemi.
Thank you Matteo, you explained everything perfect. May I ask you, why when I am playing video that I export in Rec 709a is chopped (doesn't play smooth) on VLC player on Macbook? And can you tell me if you export video as rec 709 gamma 2.4 for Vimeo or Stock Footage platforms, are those videos is going to be washed out such as on TH-cam ?
Sorry the problem is if you recommend client to watch video h264 macbook with vlc, that video is going to have lagging issues. If you export video in apple prores, video is going to play smooth on macbook with vlc. Do you have any option for fixing this problem?
Is it possible to add the compensation LUT for the rec709-A versions?
I think (at least theoretically) one could develop a LUT from the timeline-level color correct node, and then add it via the delivery tab where needed
Did you ever test Canon Cinema Cameras such as the C70? How are they compared to the URSA?
Yes, but I am not a fan.
GREAT!
is it is same problem/solution if use Mac mini and non apple display (LG or Dell)?
Not sure
Hi Matteo what Macbook Pro chip do you have? and if you are fine to edit and grade braw 6k. just got my 6k full frame and my Mac is pretty slow with braw on 6k timeline. would you please share with us your timeline setting when you work with Bmcc 6k
Thank you
M1 max full specs. I can edit 12k footage in a 8k timeline no problem
wow amazing need to do my work to find one for me BTW got your BUTTERY for grading I just love the image from this camera with that Thank you@@matteobertoli
Matteo one more question is the 36fps in 6k open gate only available as of speed recording I can only set 30fps in this profile
Thanks
6k open gate shoots up to 36p
@@matteobertoli I have update camera software to 8.3.2 and now 6k open gate 30fps and only available off speed 36 fps sorry to bother you is that how it suppose to be thanks for your time
If I edit on a PC and send my video file to a client who will watch it on a Mac do I have to worry about this?
Depending what players he uses unfortunately. It’s a mess
It’s not all that complicated, Mac interprets Rec709 footage as gamma 1.96, you can either grade it so it looks good with that interpretation, or grade it so that it looks good on everything else (or create two versions, as suggested). Instead of that, you can split the difference with gamma 2.2, which is better for online content, OR bypass all this mess and start using HDR. I like Rec2100 HLG, because it’s backwards compatible with Rec709. So it should look good on HDR displays, SDR displays, Mac, Windows or TH-cam.
Hdr? That’s a delivery standard, not a color space you should work on for color grading. That’s even a bigger mess. Gamma 2.2 never worked for me unfortunately
@@matteobertoli yeah, we were talking about delivering in rec709 gamma 2.4, instead of that, for your own work, you can choose to deliver rec2100 hlg…TH-cam supports it, and on displays that don’t, it is backwards compatible with rec709
I would always being grading in aces cct or Davinci wide gamut intermediate
@@MaximoJoshua working in hlg? Terrible idea
@@matteobertoli delivering in hlg...
I don't understand why you just don't grade everything using REC709-A and export a master file to your client. I just finished a color-grading job and the client asked for a ProResHQ master file. My export was exactly like my grade on Resolve. So I don't understand why you would grade using gamma 2.4 and then apply a grade to the whole timeline. Some clip doesn't need that much highlight, shadows or contrast. IMO, you can't just drop a grade that will be applied to the whole timeline without going back to some clip and adjust them.
I'm curious to know why you would use gamma 2.4 when the Mac display can't show it correctly.
If you watch the video you can see that the master with rec709a looks identical in quicktime, but NOT in vlc or any other players that is not Quicktime. If you know your client only uses Mac and Quicktime, that’s fine, but I still feel weird in grading an image that is not the one I captured. The images I capture don’t look that desaturated and flat like the one that you see with Mac Display on and Rec709A. Everything is in the video tho. The adjustment on the timeline node is not a grade, it’s a compensation for the gamma difference. I made a LUT out of that node and I tested in 10 different projects on hundreds of clips and it works perfectly in every single situation.
I also think the explanation wasn’t the most straight forward.
What I understand (after going through the video a dozen times to make sense as I was writing notes) is that he exported the initial master using gamma 2.4 workflow and then either imported that master back into Davinci, changed the settings to Rec 709 A and compensated for the difference in gamma on the timeline level or applied the timeline level compensation to the grade after changing the settings.
But Yea if every clip was initially balanced and graded to match all shots in uniformity on the clip level, a timeline level adjustment should evenly adjsut accordingly no?
@@matteobertolido you have that LUT for buy or download?
Direi una buona soluzione, ma ho una domanda: la versione online modificata con questi parametri, funziona solo se caricata da mac oppure in tutti i casi? se io consegno un video con queste due versioni a un cliente, che quindi vedrà bene con VLC nel suo computer, ma poi quale versione dovrà caricare sul proprio sito o sui propri canali?
In un qualche modo credo sia un problema che non ha una vera e propria soluzione, perchè ci sarà sempre un monitor mal calibrato o che si vedrà diversamente purtroppo. Grazie del video, comunque questa soluzione è efficace per una buona parte delle situazioni.
Esattamente. È un vero casino. Ma la versione online va benissimo anche se caricata da altri devices. TH-cam usa gli stessi codec e gamma settings indipendentemente dal computer
@@matteobertoli perfetto grazie
4:48 center greens are same and corner greens are different, weird😂
?
I guess you're not talking about the greens but about the slight darkening overlay that TH-cam in Chrome puts over your paused image?
Wish there was the same tutorial for premiere, LOL
Ah so it happens also in Premiere? At the end we don’t have much control over online. This is a sort of workaround, but vast majority of the time I just upload what I export and call it a day ahah
@@matteobertoli Yeah it's pretty bad in premiere. There are some gama correction LUTs out there that you add to export, but they're way too crunchy, LOL.
@@RyanBartonGrimley In premiere, turn on Display Color Management under Color in Preferences and you're all set. No need to use the correction LUT.
Hi. in QuickTime it looks the same as in DaVinci resolve. in VLC player I got a lot more reddish skin tones and they are oversaturated.
The main problem is, it looks way to dark on my iPhone.
My color management is always set to: timeline: DaVinci WG/intermediate. Output color space:Rec709-A.
Im working always with color space transforms from Sony S-gamut3.cince/sonySlog3 to DaVinciwidegamut/davinci intermediate (in the first node).
And then in the last node from: DaVinciwidegamut/davinci intermediate to rec709/rec709-A.
Any Ideas?
why not at the end try a colour space transform from rec 709-A to Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 that way it will be identical
I tried, but that didn’t work for me. Couldn’t get the colors right. Spent a few mins on the timeline node and footage is identical now. But if you can make it work yes, that’s another option. As I mentioned there are tons of ways people use to solve this, but this works fine for me. I made a lut out of that timeline node that I can use for everything
I have a better solution - I just sold my MacBook Pro and bought a Windows computer. No kidding :) Mac just drives me nuts. I used it for 10 years, sold a few days, and will never regret it!
No thank you :)
@@matteobertoli Good luck troubleshooting extremely stupid unnecessary gamma issues on mac then :)
I think the best solution is to get rid of apple(?)
No
Dirty quick time gamma flag , designed to make it look crap on windows .
😂 it looks bad on Mac too
@@matteobertoli 🤣🤣
complimenti per il video Matteo, quindi la versione youtube ti trovi bene anche vimeo e instagram?
Yes!