OK, a few comments here. First, the situation you described is very different from what most foreign students have when they feel they have to make small talk. You could have easily walked past that person, you didn't have to talk to him at all. Now, imagine a different situation where two people are having a work-related Zoom call. That's totally different, you're expected to talk, and you are pretty much expected to start with small talk in most cases. Second, in my current job, apart from regular teaching, I have to watch and provide feedback to students on their speaking sessions with foreign specialists in the same industry. Anyway, I can't stress enough how often I have perfectly friendly and open and smiley students who are willing to make every effort to start a genuine conversation, the only block they have is HOW to express all that friendliness and willingness to ask about the other person's background, etc. Honestly, I have no reason not to trust them when they say that's what they feel they lack, simply because I see it myself. And, third, what's your alternative suggestion? To learn English and to immerse oneself in the cultural context and increase one's situational awareness in general - which sounds like a lifelong process, to be honest - while putting their real life on hold? Your student may be having a job interview in a couple of days, for God's sake! They need a quick remedy, which, admittedly, won't make them perfect communicators but might just make those silent pauses slightly shorter and less embarrassing. Doesn't mean they'll stop learning after that.
But you are talking about "talking" compared to "small talk". One can express their friendliness without engaging in small talk. In fact, it would be weird to ask someone about the Bears' game last night if I didn't know anything about them. So yes, being culturally and situationally aware makes a difference. When people talk about "small talk", I think they are trying to find a remedy to a problem that isn't there. As far as a "job interview", again, you are talking about simply talking when you have those silent pauses. I'm not going to, in the middle of an interview, ask the interviewer "How is your wife?" Is that small talk, yes? Is that appropriate? No. Small talk also doesn't equate to personality.
@@davesenglish No, I do mean small talk, literally the first phrases you say to a person when you see them on a given occasion. It's "Hi, nice to meet you" aaand a long pause accompanied by a huge smile because they want to say something but can't think of a way to start. Additionally, in terms of cultural differences, sometimes people who are not really accustomed to small talk being an integral part of communication need to be purposefully reminded of what things might be appropriate to bring up. It's a bit like active listening, all those 'wow, cool, oh, really' are not typical of all cultures and students have to be made aware of that. Because many English speaking people, especially when talking to someone over the Internet, begin looking like they would want to poke my student with a stick if they could to check if they're alive.
I tried asking people in my country in Asia "How was your weekend?" and they were thrown off because it's not what people in my country normally ask. But in the US it's quite common. I do think to communicate in English with Americans, learning small talk is very important so you don't seem rude. On the other hand when Americans go to for example the UK, even though you both speak English British people aren't as chatty and may find Americans annoying and intrusive.
In Asia it's quite common to say wow long time no see, looks like you've gained weight. And people just answer yeah been eating too much lately or haven't exercised in a long while, etc. It's just small talk and nothing to take offense. But like in the movie Everything Everywhere All At Once even the daughter an American-born Asian gets upset when her mother comments about her weight. So if a Westerner is learning Chinese or Japanese for example you should learn small talk in these countries too in my opinion.
small talk or any meaningful conversation it is about a flow and how you able to make it going .. to be with this flow.. so it's my understanding about this.. and it's definitely not about using some words from your words list being on the same page it's a key I think
I wouldn't say that small talk has nothing to do with language. The cultural context and situational awareness you talk about falls under pragmatics which is one of the five domains of language. You may not walk up to random people in the supermarket but unless you look like a total psychopath others will likely walk up to you and strike up a conversation. I haven't seen enough of these learn small talk videos to judge the quality of the information presented, but if these videos focus on presenting learners with practical phrases and useful lexical chunks, they can provide valuable tools for navigating unexpected real-life conversations in the big world out there.
But what good are practical phrases when the ability of taking the conversation beyond basic phrases aren't there? It's not just a problem with "small talk" videos, but all videos. Learning basic phrases doesn't help one learn the language. Yes, when I went to France, I knew the phrase "how much does this cost", but I also knew the answer. Learning phrases doesn't do anything to help people understand the language. A parrot can learn phrases, but not the answers.
@@davesenglish Well, I learned English by putting words and expressions in context. I created and learned some prefabricated sentences (very simple sentences) when I was first starting to learn the language. I repeated them, tried to understand the grammar behind them, and then repeated them aloud since I didn't have (and still don't have) someone to practice with. It was VERY helpful for me, and I sometimes still use that method when learning vocabulary. I think we are overcomplicating things here and being a little extreme with the affirmations. There are many patterns in languages, and as a learner myself, I have found even small talk videos helpful. I think another important point is to add your personal touch to the memorized, pre-made phrases. In my case, that came over time. Still, a good video. I have learned from you, and I thank you for that.
I think especially in the US small talk is very important because Americans are friendly and quite chatty. I don't think in many countries around the world do cashiers and servers have to talk this much to customers.
The first thing that I'm gonna do now is to google "what is small talk". This is the first time that I hear this expression, I have gotten the idea with the video example, but I want to learn the complete explanation of what's that. Thanks, have a nice evening
I see your point, but don't you think learners might benefit from these cliches in daily communication? You know, it's not only about understanding these phrases but also using them appropriately. In my country (Ukraine) the culture of small talk is not developed enough, so I was considered to sound a bit awkward and even rude until I taught myself to small talk. And yes, my level of English is not that bad, but I still sometimes watch those videos to avoid social awkwardness.
Which is the reason why I say it is a feeling instead of language. You could say something that would seem fine, but if you don't have the feel for the situation, it would still be awkward.
@@davesenglishWhat?? Small talk is not solely a feeling; it is a form of communication that involves both language and social interaction. While small talk can evoke certain feelings, such as friendliness or comfort, it is primarily a linguistic activity. Language plays a crucial role in small talk as it provides the means to convey information, express thoughts, and engage in casual conversation. It involves using words, phrases, and expressions to initiate and sustain interactions with others. So, while small talk involves both language and the social dynamics between people, it is more accurate to say that it is a combination of language and interpersonal skills that contribute to the overall experience and feeling of small talk.
@@Cass23kkkk if you used a lot of the small talk phrases you've learned at random, then you'll understand what Dave is talking about. he is talking about the feeling when and how and what phrase to use to be understood correctly by other people.
i guess, on a daily basis when we all speak our native languages we don’t notice things like small talk, it just happens and that’s it. i’ll be bold enough to claim that it IS important to learn how to small talk because it teaches certain patterns that pop up in every day speech (any native speakers don’t give meaning). just like, let’s say, how would you, Dave, approach a French, Japanese or Russian native speaker if you were learning their languages? you must know the pattern, its word order, grammar and vocabulary to sound just like them and make more or less sense depending on your level.
Oh, absolutely! Who needs the ability to engage in casual conversations and connect with people on a basic level, right? I mean, who cares about building relationships, making friends, or even just avoiding awkward silences? Forget about being able to navigate social situations, make a good first impression, or show a genuine interest in others. Who needs those skills when you can just sit in a corner, silently observing the world and missing out on all the fun? And let's not even mention the countless opportunities that small talk opens up. Who needs networking, job interviews, or social gatherings where you can meet new people? It's much better to just stay in your comfort zone and never venture into the realm of small talk. So, go ahead and dismiss the importance of small talk in English or any other language. Who needs the ability to engage in light-hearted conversations when you can just stay in your bubble of isolation? Common Dave L
I've read your comment and it made me wonder if we had been watching the same video. Because there is nothing here that dismisses the value of small talk. It simply shows that the expressions presented in the videos in question aren't necessarily useful when it comes to having the actual smalltalk. It's the context, the situation that creates the frame of the conversation. Basically, smalltalk isn't solely an English thing. It's present in other languages. And works the same way. You don't have this set of expressions that is to be used again and again. Situations create them, so it's important to know and feel how to work them out into a short exchange. There are no templates for casual conversation, it all depends on the scenario. That's how I understood the idea Dave was trying to convey
@@onlyscience28It's crystal clear that we didn't watch the same video... This is exactly what Dave said: "Small talk has nothing to do with language, has zero to do with vocabulary or anything regarding English. Small talk has nothing to do with language" Let me break it down for you since you seem to be a bit confused. Small talk is a form of casual conversation that serves as a social lubricant. And guess what? Language is the tool we use to engage in conversation! It's through language that we exchange pleasantries, discuss the weather, or make small jokes. So to say that small talk has nothing to do with language is like saying a car has nothing to do with wheels. It's just plain absurd! Sure, small talk may not require complex vocabulary or deep intellectual discussions, but that doesn't mean it has "zero" to do with language. It's about using language to connect with others, establish rapport, and create a comfortable atmosphere. So next time, before he makes such sweeping statements, he should take a moment to think about the role of language in communication. Just a friendly suggestion, my friend.
@@davesenglishThe statement "small talk has zero to do with language" sounds a bit absolute or extreme. While it is true that small talk can be conducted in any language, it is also important to acknowledge that language does play a role in facilitating and shaping small talk conversations. Language is the means by which we communicate, and it provides the structure and vocabulary needed for small talk interactions. Different languages may have their own cultural norms and conventions when it comes to small talk topics and expressions. Additionally, language proficiency and fluency can also affect the depth and complexity of small talk conversations. So, while small talk can transcend language barriers and be conducted in various languages, language does have some influence on the nature and dynamics of small talk interactions. It would be more accurate to say that small talk can be conducted in any language, but the specific language used can impact the nuances and effectiveness of the conversation.
@@Cass23kkkk It might sound a bit absolute and extreme if someone looks at something in that way. It's kind of like if I say "nobody says that in America". It doesn't mean that literally "nobody" says that in America. If you want to look at it in the most basic and extreme way, then everything requiring communication needs language. Again, a tautology. In this case, it sounds like someone trying to make an argument for the sake of making an argument, or to be contrarian. As far as "depth and complexity" of small talk, that defeats the purpose of small talk. Small talk isn't meant to be complex. It's meant to be, well, small talk. I think you miss the point of the video. You can know the language 100%, but still not be able to conduct normal-sounding small talk. Therefore, the language isn't the issue, the issue is the person's personality, culture, and so on.
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Dave, every aspect of language is important. A small talk is a good starter to begin a conversation. All the best
But it's not an aspect of language.
OK, a few comments here.
First, the situation you described is very different from what most foreign students have when they feel they have to make small talk. You could have easily walked past that person, you didn't have to talk to him at all. Now, imagine a different situation where two people are having a work-related Zoom call. That's totally different, you're expected to talk, and you are pretty much expected to start with small talk in most cases.
Second, in my current job, apart from regular teaching, I have to watch and provide feedback to students on their speaking sessions with foreign specialists in the same industry. Anyway, I can't stress enough how often I have perfectly friendly and open and smiley students who are willing to make every effort to start a genuine conversation, the only block they have is HOW to express all that friendliness and willingness to ask about the other person's background, etc. Honestly, I have no reason not to trust them when they say that's what they feel they lack, simply because I see it myself.
And, third, what's your alternative suggestion? To learn English and to immerse oneself in the cultural context and increase one's situational awareness in general - which sounds like a lifelong process, to be honest - while putting their real life on hold? Your student may be having a job interview in a couple of days, for God's sake! They need a quick remedy, which, admittedly, won't make them perfect communicators but might just make those silent pauses slightly shorter and less embarrassing. Doesn't mean they'll stop learning after that.
But you are talking about "talking" compared to "small talk". One can express their friendliness without engaging in small talk. In fact, it would be weird to ask someone about the Bears' game last night if I didn't know anything about them. So yes, being culturally and situationally aware makes a difference.
When people talk about "small talk", I think they are trying to find a remedy to a problem that isn't there. As far as a "job interview", again, you are talking about simply talking when you have those silent pauses. I'm not going to, in the middle of an interview, ask the interviewer "How is your wife?" Is that small talk, yes? Is that appropriate? No.
Small talk also doesn't equate to personality.
@@davesenglish No, I do mean small talk, literally the first phrases you say to a person when you see them on a given occasion. It's "Hi, nice to meet you" aaand a long pause accompanied by a huge smile because they want to say something but can't think of a way to start.
Additionally, in terms of cultural differences, sometimes people who are not really accustomed to small talk being an integral part of communication need to be purposefully reminded of what things might be appropriate to bring up.
It's a bit like active listening, all those 'wow, cool, oh, really' are not typical of all cultures and students have to be made aware of that. Because many English speaking people, especially when talking to someone over the Internet, begin looking like they would want to poke my student with a stick if they could to check if they're alive.
I tried asking people in my country in Asia "How was your weekend?" and they were thrown off because it's not what people in my country normally ask. But in the US it's quite common. I do think to communicate in English with Americans, learning small talk is very important so you don't seem rude. On the other hand when Americans go to for example the UK, even though you both speak English British people aren't as chatty and may find Americans annoying and intrusive.
In Asia it's quite common to say wow long time no see, looks like you've gained weight. And people just answer yeah been eating too much lately or haven't exercised in a long while, etc. It's just small talk and nothing to take offense. But like in the movie Everything Everywhere All At Once even the daughter an American-born Asian gets upset when her mother comments about her weight. So if a Westerner is learning Chinese or Japanese for example you should learn small talk in these countries too in my opinion.
small talk or any meaningful conversation it is about a flow and how you able to make it going .. to be with this flow.. so it's my understanding about this..
and it's definitely not about using some words from your words list
being on the same page it's a key I think
As usual to the point! Thank you, Dave, for the video! C2++ is nothing . Context is everything.
I wouldn't say that small talk has nothing to do with language. The cultural context and situational awareness you talk about falls under pragmatics which is one of the five domains of language. You may not walk up to random people in the supermarket but unless you look like a total psychopath others will likely walk up to you and strike up a conversation. I haven't seen enough of these learn small talk videos to judge the quality of the information presented, but if these videos focus on presenting learners with practical phrases and useful lexical chunks, they can provide valuable tools for navigating unexpected real-life conversations in the big world out there.
But what good are practical phrases when the ability of taking the conversation beyond basic phrases aren't there? It's not just a problem with "small talk" videos, but all videos. Learning basic phrases doesn't help one learn the language. Yes, when I went to France, I knew the phrase "how much does this cost", but I also knew the answer. Learning phrases doesn't do anything to help people understand the language. A parrot can learn phrases, but not the answers.
@@davesenglish Well, I learned English by putting words and expressions in context. I created and learned some prefabricated sentences (very simple sentences) when I was first starting to learn the language. I repeated them, tried to understand the grammar behind them, and then repeated them aloud since I didn't have (and still don't have) someone to practice with. It was VERY helpful for me, and I sometimes still use that method when learning vocabulary.
I think we are overcomplicating things here and being a little extreme with the affirmations. There are many patterns in languages, and as a learner myself, I have found even small talk videos helpful. I think another important point is to add your personal touch to the memorized, pre-made phrases. In my case, that came over time.
Still, a good video. I have learned from you, and I thank you for that.
I think especially in the US small talk is very important because Americans are friendly and quite chatty. I don't think in many countries around the world do cashiers and servers have to talk this much to customers.
The first thing that I'm gonna do now is to google "what is small talk". This is the first time that I hear this expression, I have gotten the idea with the video example, but I want to learn the complete explanation of what's that.
Thanks, have a nice evening
I see your point, but don't you think learners might benefit from these cliches in daily communication? You know, it's not only about understanding these phrases but also using them appropriately. In my country (Ukraine) the culture of small talk is not developed enough, so I was considered to sound a bit awkward and even rude until I taught myself to small talk. And yes, my level of English is not that bad, but I still sometimes watch those videos to avoid social awkwardness.
Which is the reason why I say it is a feeling instead of language. You could say something that would seem fine, but if you don't have the feel for the situation, it would still be awkward.
Well, yes, but first you need some examples that you can adjust to real-life situations. Input, if you want.@@davesenglish
@@davesenglishWhat?? Small talk is not solely a feeling; it is a form of communication that involves both language and social interaction. While small talk can evoke certain feelings, such as friendliness or comfort, it is primarily a linguistic activity.
Language plays a crucial role in small talk as it provides the means to convey information, express thoughts, and engage in casual conversation. It involves using words, phrases, and expressions to initiate and sustain interactions with others.
So, while small talk involves both language and the social dynamics between people, it is more accurate to say that it is a combination of language and interpersonal skills that contribute to the overall experience and feeling of small talk.
@@Cass23kkkk if you used a lot of the small talk phrases you've learned at random, then you'll understand what Dave is talking about. he is talking about the feeling when and how and what phrase to use to be understood correctly by other people.
Thank you very much ❤
i guess, on a daily basis when we all speak our native languages we don’t notice things like small talk, it just happens and that’s it. i’ll be bold enough to claim that it IS important to learn how to small talk because it teaches certain patterns that pop up in every day speech (any native speakers don’t give meaning). just like, let’s say, how would you, Dave, approach a French, Japanese or Russian native speaker if you were learning their languages? you must know the pattern, its word order, grammar and vocabulary to sound just like them and make more or less sense depending on your level.
in Russia we don't have small talks at all ahahah.
You don't do the smal talk intentionally. The situation requires to say something to other people.
Thanks for all David, but pls make vids about grammar, you got few grammar lessons . Not critisizing..
Thanks. I'm going to make the videos that I plan to make.
@@davesenglish I did hope you wouldn't get me wrong, I think you did
@@vladimirbaloyan440 I understand what you said, and it's totally fine.
Nice to see your video
Oh, absolutely! Who needs the ability to engage in casual conversations and connect with people on a basic level, right? I mean, who cares about building relationships, making friends, or even just avoiding awkward silences?
Forget about being able to navigate social situations, make a good first impression, or show a genuine interest in others. Who needs those skills when you can just sit in a corner, silently observing the world and missing out on all the fun?
And let's not even mention the countless opportunities that small talk opens up. Who needs networking, job interviews, or social gatherings where you can meet new people? It's much better to just stay in your comfort zone and never venture into the realm of small talk.
So, go ahead and dismiss the importance of small talk in English or any other language. Who needs the ability to engage in light-hearted conversations when you can just stay in your bubble of isolation? Common Dave L
I've read your comment and it made me wonder if we had been watching the same video. Because there is nothing here that dismisses the value of small talk. It simply shows that the expressions presented in the videos in question aren't necessarily useful when it comes to having the actual smalltalk. It's the context, the situation that creates the frame of the conversation. Basically, smalltalk isn't solely an English thing. It's present in other languages. And works the same way. You don't have this set of expressions that is to be used again and again. Situations create them, so it's important to know and feel how to work them out into a short exchange. There are no templates for casual conversation, it all depends on the scenario. That's how I understood the idea Dave was trying to convey
@@onlyscience28It's crystal clear that we didn't watch the same video... This is exactly what Dave said: "Small talk has nothing to do with language, has zero to do with vocabulary or anything regarding English. Small talk has nothing to do with language"
Let me break it down for you since you seem to be a bit confused. Small talk is a form of casual conversation that serves as a social lubricant. And guess what? Language is the tool we use to engage in conversation! It's through language that we exchange pleasantries, discuss the weather, or make small jokes. So to say that small talk has nothing to do with language is like saying a car has nothing to do with wheels. It's just plain absurd!
Sure, small talk may not require complex vocabulary or deep intellectual discussions, but that doesn't mean it has "zero" to do with language. It's about using language to connect with others, establish rapport, and create a comfortable atmosphere. So next time, before he makes such sweeping statements, he should take a moment to think about the role of language in communication. Just a friendly suggestion, my friend.
Yes, it has zero to do with language, because you can have small talk in any language. Your argument is basically a tautology.
@@davesenglishThe statement "small talk has zero to do with language" sounds a bit absolute or extreme. While it is true that small talk can be conducted in any language, it is also important to acknowledge that language does play a role in facilitating and shaping small talk conversations.
Language is the means by which we communicate, and it provides the structure and vocabulary needed for small talk interactions. Different languages may have their own cultural norms and conventions when it comes to small talk topics and expressions. Additionally, language proficiency and fluency can also affect the depth and complexity of small talk conversations.
So, while small talk can transcend language barriers and be conducted in various languages, language does have some influence on the nature and dynamics of small talk interactions. It would be more accurate to say that small talk can be conducted in any language, but the specific language used can impact the nuances and effectiveness of the conversation.
@@Cass23kkkk It might sound a bit absolute and extreme if someone looks at something in that way. It's kind of like if I say "nobody says that in America". It doesn't mean that literally "nobody" says that in America. If you want to look at it in the most basic and extreme way, then everything requiring communication needs language. Again, a tautology. In this case, it sounds like someone trying to make an argument for the sake of making an argument, or to be contrarian.
As far as "depth and complexity" of small talk, that defeats the purpose of small talk. Small talk isn't meant to be complex. It's meant to be, well, small talk.
I think you miss the point of the video. You can know the language 100%, but still not be able to conduct normal-sounding small talk. Therefore, the language isn't the issue, the issue is the person's personality, culture, and so on.
I can watch your videos on 1.75 speed, but sometimes not able to understand people on the streets 😅
So what's my level?😅
B2
Welcome to my world 😂
More videos.
I like @Canguroenglish, we need english to communicate👍
His is the best channel out there.