How to Identify an Ex- Sniper M91/30 Mosin Nagant Rifle
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Cut and dry and should point you in the right direction for most Ex-snipers. Ex-Snipers are much more accurate than a standard M91/30.
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Hallo!I'm living in Estonia and I speek russian free.And this marking on front of receiver is not Y but russian U.Thanks for great video!
@sovietweapons No. When the Soviets refurbished the weapons and converted them back to infantry rifles (mostly in the 60s, I believe), the bolt bodies were replaced and the new ones numbered to match the rifle.
The Tula rifles will have either 'С П' (SP) or 'С Ц' (STs) above the Tula star on the barrel shank. I'm not entirely sure what the Ts stands for, but in the case of SP, it's 'Snayperskaya Provernaya', which means 'sniper proven',
The Cyrillic “R” is “P”. The one that looks like an “n” is the Cyrillic letter “P” or the pi looking character. It’s a P, not an R. Just thought I’d share that-
Nice vid, just a few things to note though. The numbers on the bottom of the barrel are tracking numbers used by the factory during production, they don't have anything to do with it being an ex-sniper. And most ex-snipers were returned to the standerd M91/30 configuration in the last great Ukrainian refurbishment project in the 60's/70's because the optics were expensive to maintain, not because of degraded accuracy.
Another great vid Eric. When I need to know something about the Mosins your channel is one of my primary sources. Thanks
the easiest way to tell if one is ex sniper would be see if there are filled in holes ?
Thank you for the tip. The plugged receiver holes are another thing for me to look for when shopping for a Mosin.
I've actually made a few blackpowder loads for my mosin. They worked just fine, but they sounded kinda funky and were nowhere near the velocity of standard surplus 7.62x54. The clean up wasn't too bad either. The mosin is basically a straight pipe after all.
mmm isn't that a Izhevsk? doesn't a tula have a star with a arrow?
I didn't think my 9130 was a sniper model, this verifies it! Thanks for the continuing videos on these models. I've learned a lot. It seems there are plenty of non-sniper models that are still pretty accurate so I'm not sure it's worth paying extra for one.
My mosin has a scope number on the side that isn't marked out, but it has the silly electro-pencil import markings on it. All the numbers match except of course the scope numbers. Still fires like a dream.
Very interesting. I have a Baikal .22 TOZ 17 and it has the same blackpowder proof-mark. It is also a Tula production. Very accurate little .22, but with the typical Soviet lack of perfect finish. The Soviets had no problem making firearms that just simply worked and did what they needed to do.
I just fired my first mosin nagant today. I bought it tuesday.
I had no idea just what I had with my m91/30 but after watching this and owning the rifle for multiple years I now know what I have and can't wait to make it proper
Great video! It would be fantastic if you did a video on suppressors - legality, procurement procedure, your favorites, how they work, etc. I think it would be a hit!
Very cool. Now I know what to look for.
@cybrough I look at it this way... a mosin head to head with a state of the art bolt gun in say 300 win-mag, the mosin is gonna lose. HOWEVER for the 5 g's that gun will run you... you can buy 50 mosins, equip a small army, and still pay less in ammo. Also, because 7.62x54 is so cheap compared to those cartridges, you can afford to become a true master of your weapons system.... wich more than makes up the difference in accuracy. But if ur rich.... go .338 Lapua or .416 Barret lol
Not really lol the new elcheapo Thompson compass rifles can and do shoot sub moa for 5 shots because even though its a cheap gun they are putting new machined match grade bbls on them for $229 and in 6.5 creedmore the second load i hand loaded put 5 into a .800 diameter group @ 100 yards! Increadable I'm 50 years old and 35-40 years ago you would have to spend big bucks with one of my Dads sako rifle to pull that off! Now today's manufacturing and barrel stress relieving is awesome making some of even the cheap rifles very accurate!lol
I wouldn't say the ex-snipers are more accurate then standard 91/30's. Remember these rifles were not custom built they were pulled off the assembly line for accuracy "potential" & fitted with a scope for testing & possibly service. If at any point the rifle did not meet the snipers accuracy needs or personal specifications, they took the rifle, plugged up the holes, & gave it to standard infantry. It's a big hit or miss with these rifles most of the REAL snipers that stayed through service with the scope went to police & other agencies then at some other point were resold not many good snipers were butchered for storage and/or resale like everyone thinks they were.
The process he explains in the video is correct.
However he did not go far enough.
The procedure I stated is exact armament procedure written in Russian.
All military rifles test fired, ALL, not 1 out of ten nor 1 out of 100, etc., including 91/30, why would it be an exception? They are so desperate to win they don't know if their guns will shoot and hit the object? Silly isn't it.
You do not send into combat unless you know for a fact rifle will function as designed your country is on the line.
By the way, before the 1917 Revolution, if you made a mistake on-line(manufacturing), you where struck with a "knut", it's a blackjack type device.
The second mistake and they sent you to the "monastery"(Siberia), Yes it was that strict, after the revolution, the "knut" was abolished.
When these rifles are test fired(fired through the magazine, at least 3 times and sighted in during this process[see..no fiddling]), they MUST meet spec for infantry rifle, if they do not the armorer sets it aside, when times between production runs allows they know pretty close from experience and what it is doing what needs replaced.
At this time, some rifles may be taken apart to reuse all parts possible(cost/time effective), some of the trigger groups, may be reused for rifles that exceed standard combat requirements for accuracy when tested and fall into the Predetermined Accuracy Requirements for a Sniper Class rifle by chance of everything coming together just right. Because they want to maximize the accuracy of the Sniper rifle, an existing trigger group from one of the dismantled rifles gets readjusted with lighter springs, polished contacts and shortened travel, the old serial # is over stamped, usually with simple bar"-" over each #, during slack time by the older Armament Smiths. When a sniper comes up, that trigger group is removed, a pre/altered trigger sniper'd group is installed and then serial numbered to the rifle with an electric pencil. I failed to mention the stock also gets 2 coats of shellac finish died in red, to help protect the wood, this is brushed on, with visible brush marks, died in red to quickly distinquish rifle.
Most of the genuine Russian Snipers sold out 30 years ago.
I have a Genuine 91/30 Sniper I bought 35 years ago , it has the electric penciled trigger group and the Shellac'd red wood, that I knew to look for back then. I have a SVT-40 Sniper, trigger group is electric penciled, stock was replaced by Russian Armament after the war and rifle put into storage, bought it 34 years ago.
if you see 5/900bucks it's a fake. Generally your gonna pay $1,200.00 to $1,850.00+ depending on condition, if original, redone by Russian Armament, civilian hack job, etc., fake, price keeps going down.
I have given you facts here.
Walt K
That's the biggest load of shit I have ever read. You have a refurbed mosin PU that you overpaid for. I own two and didn't pay anywhere near that and yes they are 100% real. lol. There are a handful of sites today. 10/17/2014 that are selling REAL REFURBED MOSIN PU's for way less than what you paid. Like it or not, they are real PU's.
risen25 Jump up & down, a fake is a fake genuine is genuine.
I paid 250$ for my original sniper/not refurb over 35 years ago. It's about the knowledge, not the money.
You are desperate to justify your own expenditure. The info I shared is common knowledge with experts, like myself, who have been collecting and studying militaria for more than 45 years. Go to a reputable dealer that goes by the facts if you dare.
www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000754&dir=
Walt K Justify what? Not paying $1200-$1800 for a "real" PU. You must be one of those who think refurbed PU's aren't real PU's. What is a real russian sniper to you? Where in the world did you get the info that most genuine Russian snipers sold out 30 years ago. Are you insane. You must be mad that all of these new PU's have recently come to market that are in no way less of a real PU than what you think you bought 35 years ago. I am happy that you have an SVT-40. Very cool. One day Id like to get a PEM 91/30. When I come up with $4k maybe that will happen, or if we are going buy your math with PU's $25k. I am lost at what you linked. There is nothing there.
Walt K
All are Tulsky exports. GENUINE mosin snipers. I hate the billboard export marks, but what can you do. Its Russian law to export them as Hunting Carbines.
www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3MOSIN9130PU&name=Russian+1891%2f30+PU+7.62x54R+Mosin+Nagant+Sniper+Rifle&groupid=12
www.classicfirearms.com/m91-30-w-scope-and-mount
If you fancy a nice Tula PU. As much as I hate RTI and there shotty customer service. www.royaltigerimports.com/product-p/mosi0029.htm
If you don't want to believe it stay butthurt.
Thank you. Unfortunately I do no t have an ex-sniper. But I will soon. Just love these guns and the history.
It's pronounced ee-zhevsk, not eye-shu-vesk. I've got a Hungarian M48 sniper captured in VietNam. The 'r' is Cyrillic letter for 'g' - kinda like A.D. in English - meaning Year of Our Lord (God) in Russian, pronounced 'Gawt' so 1944r would be 1944 God, as in 1944 AD...a small item even the Bolsheviks couldn't abolish; for more information get the book 'The Mosin Nagant' by Terrence Lapin, part of the "For Collectors Only" series from North Cape Pubs.
\
CB in FL - a serious M/N collector
Ive got a 1935 Tula with a hex receiver, love that gun
but besides the shape of the receiver, is there any real difference between a round and a hex?
So......what good does telling these apart do, if they were retired from sniper service, meaning their barrel is not longer as accurate? It's not like finding one in a batch of mosin nagants at the store will mean i'm getting a higher quality rifle, the difference would be marginal at best in that situation.
I heard from an old russian guy that the difference in a sniper rifle versus the regular infantry rifle was in the front and rear sight tool and dies during manufacturing. While the rifles are going thru the manufacturing process the rifles that were in the beginning run of a new tool and die replacement were more accurate then the rifles that proceeded them Not really sure how true that is, But the old guy worked at Tula. Mosins were gone by then, but the old dies and tooling were still there
It seems like it would be true.
Mosins were like soldiers in a way.
Great video Thanks for the upload.
my PU shoots all shots touching at 100 yds (rested of course), but have fired some with up to 1.5" groups, never seen any worse than 2" even out of heavily shot snipers, which alot of ex snipers seem to be.
Thanks for your reply. Mosin looks like a very good deal. I enjoy your videos keep them coming.
Were any of the hex mosins sniper rifles?
I'm a little confused...you state that Tula uses the markings indicated in the video...but the mark on the receiver is Izzy...or were you just pointing out where the marks would be?
I just put a 1938 Izzy on layaway. It came in used, with an ATI stock. Barrel looks amazing, bolt is silk and the trigger is like glass. However, it does not have the scope holes, and as I've been informed, that is due to the scopes having been attached to the stock instead of the receiver. Am I off my rocker?
I would say most likely no, mainly because they made those pre-war. And switched to the round because it was quicker to make and they could make a lot during war time, but i bet there was one, just be hard to find.
Did he say acryllic??? Its cyrillic
ISO veck
The "г" is actually a "g" it is the abbreviation for "год" which is pronounced "good" or "god," the Russian word for "year."
Not super important, but I thought I should share what I know for everyone's sake :]
I need to carefully inspect my Mosin. The rifle is very accurate, but I am not certain that it was fitted and used as sniper rifle. Thanks for the video.
@scepticpatriot They're from the scope mount, he even said in the video!
god those mosin barrels are rough looking fun rifles to shoot tho
How does the Mosin compare with modern bolt action rifles?
He never stated clearly that it was Tula or Izhevsk, but he did imply it was Izhevsk.
here is info on russian letter---- У--- (усиленый) heavyload
or----- УЗ----- (усиленый заряд) heavy load
forum.guns.ru/forummessage/164/277194.html
У----клеймо испытания ствола усиленным зарядом бездымного пороха
i will translate word for word
label of testing barrel with heavy load of smokeless powder
my guess : sniper ammo loads larger than regular ammo?
I have found one at my local Cabela's $169 that looks very similar to the one in your video it does have the plug the holes and scratched out scope mount serial numbers on the left side down along the wood area. Is this going to be a better rifle then a regular 91/30???? If I purchased this one it will be my very first Mosin Negant 91/30.
Maybe yours were fitted with the pem scope.
after watching this vid i find out my tula is an ex sniper. and my izshevsk is not. the tula has a nice trigger and the izzy is pretty long. thanks for the info
very nice vid thank you sir
i dont understand, I mosin sniper rifles began as regular rifles that were inherently accurate, and they were fitted with a scope, why in the refurbishing processes were the rifle mount scopes filled in and removed?
Katherine D. Morton
no, flagged as spam
Butt cow
probably because the scopes got damaged and it wasnt worth repairing them and its easier to just remove it
Very informative video; thank you.
Its constructive critism and hes sharing knowledge.. if you have proof that the info he typed is infact incorrect, by all means share it with us. We all came to this video to learn something don't spoil it for others.
@dramey03 ....Worst in what quality area? functioning, or cosmectically? My M-38 looked pretty rough when I got her, but serial #'s all matched with no barrel bulges, etc. (paid $70). Got it home took it apart, cleaned, refinished the stock bringing out that beautiful Russian woodtone. Shoots great evertime, looks great, garners a lot of attention at the range. If no safety issues I say "go for it"...Lol. thanks
Unless you can find one with a good bore I don't really see the point in paying so much more for one. Most of the 91/30 snipers I've seen are pretty shot out. Finding one with a good bore is not so easy and you're going to pay more if the seller knows anything about them. At those kind of prices you could buy a modern rifle of much greater quality and accuracy. I have a sniper and it generally doesn't group as well as a stock 91/30 with a pristine bore. Unless you simply want it for it's historical novelty, I don't see the point.
gurumagoo i actually found one for $400 bucks ex sniper with a beautiful bore which im planning on returning it to its sniper status and throwing a scope on it today
lets say hypothetically, you find a mosin, its the "worst" quality available that is still in shooting condition, only one available to you of its kind and in the 100 dollar price range or so
worth having in your collection in your opinion?
i have one then but that make no sense because its from 1927
Nice my m44 has the black powder mark on it. Is that odd for a combat rifle?
he said "and cyrillic" not acrylic lol
how much more does an ex sniper add to the value? I've had a dozen mosins and never paid mroe than 100 bucks except for my finn m39
I see a lot of opinions but no facts.
How is a sniper rifle created?
All military firearms(around the world as far as I know) are test fired at the factory and checked for function and mechanical specs, like head space etc.
When the test firing is done, all rifles must meet a predetermined ordnance minimum accuracy requirement if they do not, everything is double checked, if necessary barrel is replaced and they try it again.
Some rifles by chance of everything coming together just right will exceed this requirement and shoot to their Sniper Class Requirements(group).
These rifles have the trigger housing removed.
Pre-made/modified in ordnance a Sniper Trigger Group(lighter/shorter pull/no creep trigger pull) these usually will have some kind of old serial # stamped which is over stamped/canceled, after installation of this modified trigger group & testing, a serial number is ELECTRIC PENCILED to match the rifle next to the old canceled #.
So if you have a rifle you think is a Sniper and it does not have the trigger group serial number electric penciled, it's a fake, SVT-40 as well, as most fakers don't go to the trouble or know this fact.
jhamersky059 The process he explains in the video is correct, nobody but you seem to question it.
However he did not go far enough.
The procedure I stated is exact armament procedure written in Russian.
There is no "fiddling", that is the exact point. you win a war by not jackin' around NOR do you win by opinion. Facts, Facts,Facts.
All military rifles test fired, ALL, not 1 out of ten nor 1 out of 100, etc., including 91/30, why would it be an exception? They are so desperate to win they don't know if their guns will shoot and hit the object? Silly isn't it.
You do not send into combat unless you know for a fact rifle will function as designed your country is on the line, this is not fiddling.
By the way, before the 1917 Revolution, if you made a mistake on-line(manufacturing), you where struck with a "knut", it's a blackjack type device.
The second mistake and they sent you to the "monastery"(Siberia), Yes it was that strict, after the revolution, the "knut" was abolished.
When these rifles are test fired(fired through the magazine, at least 3 times and sighted in during this process[see..no fiddling]), they MUST meet spec for infantry rifle, if they do not the armorer sets it aside, when times between production runs allows they know pretty close from experience and what it is doing what needs replaced.
By the way, they did not invent firing "3 times",
Even our old Pennsylvanian flintlock gunsmiths after repair would fire a rifle 3 times, if it fired as designed, they would trust their life to the 4th shot.
At this time, failed rifles will be fixed or taken apart to reuse all parts possible(cost/time effective), some of the trigger groups, may be reused for rifles that exceed standard combat requirements for accuracy and fall into the Predetermined Accuracy Requirements for a Sniper Class rifle. Because they want to maximize the accuracy of the Sniper rifle, an existing trigger group from one of the dismantled rifles gets readjusted with lighter springs, polished contacts and shortened, the old serial # is over stamped, usually with simple bar"-" over each #, during slack time by the older Armament Smiths. When a sniper comes up, that trigger group is removed, an altered trigger sniper'd group is installed and then serial numbered to the rifle with an electric pencil. I failed to mention the stock also gets 2 coats of shellac finish died in red, to help protect the wood, this is brushed on, with visible brush marks, died in red to quickly distinquish rifle.
Most of the genuine Russian Snipers sold out 30 years ago.
I have a Genuine 91/30 Sniper I bought 35 years ago , it has the electric penciled trigger group and the Shellac'd red wood, that I knew to look for back then. I have a SVT-40 Sniper, trigger group is electric penciled, stock was replaced by Russian Armament after the war and rifle put into storage, bought it 34 years ago.
Sounds to me like you bought a fake sniper. Oh well there's a lot of them out there, if you paid 5/900bucks it's a fake. Generally your gonna pay $1,200.00 to $1,850.00+ depending on condition, if original, redone by Russian Armament, civilian hack job, etc., fake, price keeps going down.
I have given you facts here, they are not open to argument. Unlike your opinions.
That is why free people live by facts, for they where same 10,000 years ago and will be same 10,000 years from now.
Walt K Overreact much? Do you feel better now?
izhévsk pronounced (e -zhévsk) Eric. The "zh" sounds like the "s" in "occasion". The V becomes an "F" sound before a consonant.
Trust me, im Russian:)
Cool I have an ex sniper : )
Thanks for the info.
To Cool
Mine has everything listed!!!
The letter "У" was often put on the training (non-working) weapon, usually, made from old real weapon. У - Учебное. Means "Training" or "Educational" on Russian. (Excuse my English). Is this gun able to shoot?
P.S. Also on sniper rifles bolt handle bended down. On simple rifles it's strait.
@utubehayter
I think he says "a Cyrillic R" but the thick Georgia brogue.
I have a mosin nagant with the "C N" markings on it, but the reciever definately has had no holes in it. Is this still an ex-sniper? BTW its 1935 tula.
My Mosin has stock repairs corresponding with the usual placement of scope mounts, as well as a serial number on the underside of the receiver, but i can't seem to find repaired holes. Is mine an ex-sniper?
Look for welding holes, nuff said.
Actually they were built from the ground up in separate blocks as sniper rifles, at least at some point. This is why they are quite desirable. A very well informed person told me this.
No they fucking weren't. Sniper m91/30's were pulled out of a pile of standard infantry rifles test fired for accuracy and then rated for accuracy. the ones with the highest ratings were fitted with a scope and a bent bolt handle. That is the limit of Sniper mosin construction.
Don't get so angry- ghee wizz
Would it be possible to re-convert this back to original condition with a new mosin sniper scope and mount.
But I cant imagine the Russian snipers would always have there bayonet on. So would they bed or free float? I guess what I'm asking is, how would you make the rifle more accurate without the bayonet?
Hey I was wondering is you could do a bedding video on the Mosin.
Is there a way to turn an infantry rifle into a sniper rifle
Buy 5000, pick the most accurate.
Здравствуйте,снайперские винтовки мосина изготавливались на отдельном производстве.
Thank you!
True, but abolition was a goal for the future. I noticed Tula specifically didn't use the "г" after the date, at least post-1930 as far as I've experienced with my own.
@Iraqveteran8888 I recently acquired my first Mosin Nagant. 1938 Tula with a low production # however there are holes drilled, plugged in the side of the receiver. only 2 and in different locations than the ones in this video. The proof marks are impossible to distinguish as they are all placed in completely random spots on the receiver. Could you possibly help distinguish whats special about the mosin I have? I've looked everywhere online and found nothing Thanks!
I have 2 mosins thanks to you great rifles...
A neighbor has a rifle he asked me to identify... The ONLY markings I can easily see is P-26 under that there is an 8 then below that is 6677
I see three letters on the side of the barrel (I think it was SIG). I assume that's a import mark.
It's full battle dress, any ideas what it is?
The P-26 mosins are extremely rare! They have early "Salerno" method barrels Finland added. Salerno barrels are rare due to many being retrofitted with newer Tikka and Sako barrels since the Salerno method though ahead of it's time, wasn't quality control proofed like that of later mosin barrel machining methods such as the M39 where the barrel blank was physically ground out instead of realigned in the Salerno method.
@@William-13 saying a Mosin nagant is a valuable gun, is like saying a dodge K car is a valuable car!!!!
very cool!!!
@utubehayter i think he said "an-a cyrillic"
Why do you pronounce it eye-she-veesk? Its izhevsk, i-zhev-sk
eee-chef-ssk
Hi Iraq- don't know if you are dtill answering questions, but..
My Mosin is a ex-dragoon Tula 91/30, with dragoon markings on the receiver. Is it possible mine could be ex-sniper, without the additional Tula receiver markings, because it still has dragoon markings?
Dying Flogmeat no.
However check your barrel-the sniper barrels are 14,5 millimetres at the muzzle end and if it is 17.5 to 18.5 there-that means that your rifle is not sniper for sure.Their first difference is that if it fits the bayonet then it can not be a sniper modification which is much thinner at the muzzle end.Also I can tell you all the other possible differences between them if you want.
@utubehayter i think he meant it is "and a cyrillic"
Im looking to buy a Nagant Revolver, anything i should look for specifically? Like certain markings?
Can you drill out the plugs and put a scope back on?
Mine has weld marks on the inside and outside, they're blued over, and it has the scope # too
not really..
am i the only one with a suggestion bar full of cats and kittens?
so what does the number under the barrel really mean ??
I like when some one telling how sniper rifle was made. It has been secret till last century and for some one still is hahaha...
my receiver says made in china is my gun accurate?
Mine is from 1939 its my favorite rifle has the best action beats my remington 700
Sean Haddow mine is from ‘39 as well
He said A cyrillic, not acylic.
what if i dont have any reciver holes
Lol "Eye She Vek".
@HobergInc It's just how he pronounces it..
it wasn't abolished completely more like state controlled
what's "eisheveck"?
Mine has an 'пя' before the number, what does that denote? I've been looking online and haven't been able to figure it out. It was produced in 1946.
Wasn't a sniper if made in "46"
i saw no penciled out numbers... i saw ENGRAVED numbers though...
suite! i have a decomissioned snypr rifle
How can I best tell if a Mosin sniper rifle has its original scope?
John H the scope is serialized
I have a good question. How do you tell if a type 99 was a ex sniper?
Jesus man. Go to *Mag30th* or *ForgottenWeapons* channel and ask, they have better information about this kind of rifle. IV8888 is hard-core on Mosin.
nice