So eh a question to people watching. I have some more time for videos the coming week but I am kind of in doubt what to cover. Out of these options below, which one would you like to see covered? - Imperial City DLC story ESO - Dark Brotherhood ESO story + gold coast power struggle explained. - Markarth Incident + the new boardgame lore that was added. - Lore of Lamia’s - Remaster some old videos from the pre 2019 era
@@badluck5647 In hindsight that would have been best but I already covered some and have done research into some which are not in order. Plus, I tend to be really slow in my process so the order would get f*d anyway eventually.
@@ImperialKnowledge Between Imperial City and Brotherhood, the Imperial City came first. Worry about Orsinium (one my favorite main storylines) and the Thieves Guild later.
The obvious connection between Celestials and Aetherius is the stars -- which are said to be holes to Aetherius. I can see why one would assume that the Celestials are the Magna Ge or ascended mortals as the Warrior, the Thief, the Mage, and the Serpent would fit nicely into those theories. However, how would one explain the Celestials created by the Serpent Court in the shape of animals and daedra? If Celestials are Aetherium "daedra", then it would explain how some mortals can shape their forms like mage can shape a daedric vestige. The Serpent is also not too different from another creation of the Magna Ge -- Mehrunes Dagon.
@@Gabranicus Sort of. However, dragons seem to be connected with just the Time God instead of Aetherius in general, and the dragons' plane of existence seems tied to Nirn.
@@JamesMadisonsSpiritAnimal you can't ruin something when all their actual lore added by eso about barely a decade ago 😂😂 lets hope we'll actuall SEE some sword singing what with Sai rediscovered the ability in 2nd era
My suspicion is that the ESO writers initially intended the Craglorn story to feature lesser known gods like Ebonarm and Ius, which is why some of the Celestials were named as such in the concept art, but that idea was overturned by higher ups. The former head writer originally intended Abnur Tharn to be the original identity of Zurin Arctus but also wasn't allowed to do so. I think something similar happened with the Celestials story because Zenimax have seemingly gone out of their way to erase Ebonarm specifically by removing mentions of his name from books in ESO, so they likely wouldn't allow their writers to use him in a story either. Someone likely had a cool idea to do something with old forgotten gods and had a story more or less planned out, but were told they couldn't include these characters. Because they still needed a story for Craglorn, the writer was made to repurpose what they had with other characters, which is how the Celestials were invented.
If there’s any fictional world that needs a movie series or show it’s The Elder Scrolls. I’ve never seen a world with so much interesting and deep lore. I would be first in line to watch it if it ever happened. Imagine if they made a series about Pelinal Whitestrake, it’d be insane.
Really depends on what the show would do because with The Elder Scrolls a lot of things like unreliable narrator and a movie could ruin a lot of that and take away the mystery. Let's not forget different characters have different perspectives, whose perspective do we absorb here when it comes to pelinal whitestrake?
@@77wolfblade very true tbh. I think it should be the perspective of whatever would make a better story and would absorb the most audience, if that makes sense.
After the Halo show, I'm worried about that stuff. If they make a show or movie, they NEED Todd Howard's influence on the writing also with the input of other writers of the TES games. They have to have a writer supported by actual writers, or a writer who is actually invested in the games and understands the lore and everything, so they don't fuck up and just make the show their own original creation with TES elements like the Halo show did. It'd have to be Canon, and accurate. I think a show about Tipal The Pilot would be a good premise too cause it gives room for some creative liberty and shows us an early part of the TES lore as well. He'd be exploring major areas of Tamriel we know and love. He could have a bunch of crazy experiences with things and people that he discovers across Tamriel as he maps it down. He could meet the extinct races and the proto races that we haven't seen yet. He himself is an Aldmer too. Honestly anything from the Merethic Era would be the perfect setting for a show cause of all of the things that we don't know yet. Kinda like a KOTOR thing. Maybe instead of focusing on one character entirely, it could be like Star Wars Tales of the Jedi, and have a whole bunch of mini stories about major events untouched by the TES games so far. Maybe something on the Dwemer and Falmer, or Ayleid society, Chimer and how they got cursed, or maybe how some of the other man or breast races went extinct such as the Kothringi or Lilmothiit. But also leaving some stuff out for fans to speculate and wonder about. More so to give us an idea visually of how these things played out, and not ruining any of the mystery and fun of TES lore.
Idk man.. the LOTR show, the Halo show, now the trailer for the Fallout show.. so far the recent trend of new media for established popular franchises feels cheap and crappy and cash-grabby and not like the studios making these tie-ins took up the project out of passion or interest, rather they were selected by committee to cobble together yet another Hallmark-looking ass drama that loosely resembles one of your once-beloved stories. Hands off my Elder Scrolls until you can prove you can do it right with something I don’t care about.. Lord of the Rings was a bridge too far
Hell yeah Craglorn lore video, playing through ESO for the first time and found this zone story to be cool and unique. Glad more people will hear about this weird stuff!
My theory is the reason for the existence of the Celestials is twofold: 1) From an out-of-game perspective, they explain why our characters in ESO don't have to choose birthsigns; the constellations weren't even in the heavens, so the power gained from birthsigns is taken away, replaced with only the Mundus Stones we find that are small replications of the Apex Stones, and are empowered even further when the Celestials are present. 2) From an in-lore perspective, I think the Celestials and the march of the Constellations represents the Amaranth's subconscious dreaming. It's the three usual archetypes - Warrior, Mage, Thief - against some seemingly-unbeatable opponent - the Serpent. It's the Amaranth cooking up a new story in their subconscious to dream. The Nedes developed a way to pull down these half-formed heroes-versus-evil stories and 'realize' them before their time - as though pulling them out of the Dreamer's anticipatory subconscious before it itself fully birthed them. There may have been need to supplement their forms, hence the fusion with Mortals, allowing a half-baked dream-concept to fully realize in Mundus. The fact that this was done by "accident" / the Scaled Court all at once in Craglorn is the reason ESO is an MMO; there's not just *one* birthsign/guardian making up or protecting the hero, but all three, because the Dream isn't fully realized and the usual tale of hero-versus-serpent is shattered, making it heroes-versus-serpents. In other words, I think the Craglorn zone story was endgame content that tried to cosmogenically justify ESO's total change of system and pace and the 'Dream' that's been present since launch.
Aside from the explanation of the Craglorn writers not being familiar with TES lore, I believe the mythopoeic nature of reality in TES might be how its possible for the Celestials to be both physical beings and holes in the Mundus. In TES, reality is largely dictated by belief. When enough mortals start believing something, that thing can become real. This effect seems to be particularly potent when it comes to Gods, Daedra, and other supernatural beings, with the greatest examples of this being the creation of the two-headed version of Akatosh by the First Empress, the appearance of Daedra being effected by the belief of their followers in the land they're manifesting in(people in Elswyre see Daedra as Cats, while in other countries we see them in forms that match their mythologies of those people.), and the Marukhati Selective being able to alter the nature of a God through their belief in the ritual they used, the Dance of Towers. Because the ancient Duraki Star Cultists had strong enough belief that the Celestials were physical beings, they are physical beings. But because others see them as just being holes in reality, the are also just holes. Both are true because both are believed they are/were true. This is also supported by the Redguard belief that the Serpent constellation is a manifestation of Sep who is cursed to slither about the sky in the dead skin of the previous world for all of reality for tricking the other Gods/Spirits into becoming part of the world(also making him their Lorkhan parallel). Depending on the rituals invoked and the strength of the belief of those who made the rituals, the same constellation can present itself as any or all of its manifestations at any point.
I agree that it's important we don't take anything as absolute fact in the lore, because Elder Scrolls lore is by design very weird. Of course in reality it can be seen as a bit of a cop-out and a way to let the developers get away with not really knowing all the lore, but I think it's more fun to take the evidence we get and try to theorize around it, much like the characters in-universe would have to (and of course we have access to way more information than any one character in the universe ever has had).
If the celestials being can take a mortal form or vise versa then it make sense if Pelinal Whitestrake was a celestials because he is a star-made knight
Thank you for covering the Craglorn lore. I mainly play ESO solo for the character and armor customization and the second era lore. So, I haven't actually traveled to Craglorn as I hear it is a zone with many encounters meant for group PvE.
Craglorn can be done solo but aside from about 5 world bosses. You do need to be high level though and it’s a lot more combat intensive than all the other zones
My advice if you want to do Craglorn is to make a high damage aoe build and get your hands on the Ring of the Pale Order. That's what I did with my necromancer and I rarely have any trouble.
For me playing Craglorn The first time and Exploring the mainstory felt so super Amazing, because every quest and everything you do has some sort of connection to the Main Story and also the best is that the Trials/Raids are the final Fights against the Celestials. The Craglorn DLC is imo an example of how should a DLC Look like.
He's right about the old stuff, I've seen some of it. The information is fairly solid, because he's always done a good job of trying to make sense of the maddening lore of TES, but things from 2020 and onwards have much better quality for watching it. The rest gets less comfortable for viewing the further back you go, but there's still a lot of information this guy covers that most TES channels don't, the main reason I like seeing it.
I watched his videos years ago to have links to send to my friends to have them catch up on TES lore and from time to time to catch a glimpse on some concept that were obscure even for me Now I'm plunging back in after a few years away from the Elder Scrolls community to help refresh my memory on the lore as I'm getting back in (I know that it will be a wild ride) So I wish you good luck, this channel is real treasure trove of lore content from what I remember
@@UnswimmingFishYT yeah its been a turbulent adventure this channel hahah. Id say everything starting 2018 is watchable, starting the tail end of 2019 its comfortable haha. But I also dont feel like remastering every single video when I have limited time and so much new stuff left to cover
@@sephikong8323 i have not stopped making videos for the past few years so you should have a lot to catch up on. I tend to go more in depth now and more focussed on singular subjects. So for example: all the lore on a type of monster/animal. Or random subjects like the love/marriage traditions of each of tamriel’s cultures
The celestials were ancient nedes that experimented with nirncrux to become demigods. Thats like some heart of Lorkhan levels of power right there. And it makes you wonder about the composite makeup of nirncrux to give it so much power.....
Since this video is all about Craglorn it would be great if it would be mentioned in the title. I could see myself coming back for these after replaying through the zones to get a complete understanding about what I just played through with background about the factions etc.
Awesome video! Loved the music, really fit the "celestial" vibe. Ive been hoping someone would cover a video about these characters for a long time. I always found them to be such an oddly lesser discussed topic ingame. The divines are always the talk of everyone, but nobody talks about the Celestials, and few books I have read mention much about them other than the common interpretation of them being simply constellations with a story. As for a next video topic, I guess Id say Lamia's Lore.
Honestly in alot of fantasy that uses the constalations and zodiarc signs the serpent is quite often depicted as the evil or darker 13th who's pressence is hidden or antagonistic compaired to the other 12. Given the real world dominant religous context of the serpent being a deciver, or the literal devil in disguise alot of stories make Ophiuchus's avatar either evil or dark in nature.
Seems like the first theory is most likely to be true: the ancient humans of Tamriel who worshipped the stars figured out a way to harness them and tap into their power, and then the constellations are people from amongst them who channeled the most potent stars and bound themselves to them. The majority of them probably used stars that were relatively close together already, but the Serpent probably chose stars from all across the sky, allowing it to freely travel between those points and usurp the power and influence of all the others.
@@JulesBlues122 They are specifically pathways into Aetherius, and presumably therefore represent channels to power. That said, they were also worshiped by many early human cultures, especially on Tamriel, and it seems that either through the power of said worship or through some sort of more direct magical manipulation, the stars have become *more than that simple reality.* Unless you want to deny the gameplay and say that all of what was going on in that questline was hallucination or illusion work.
Gods in ES lore are bound to worship (which is why the Thalmor are so determined to stop Talos worship). It's also possible that the Nedes started worshipping the stars, and as a result, inadverently conjured these demigods into actual existence. That would let both star theories exist at the same time and both be 100% true.
@berilsevvalbekret772 that is wrong, the person you replied to is correct, and I came up with a similar theory that they did before I even looked at the comments. Gods are created by worship, they are not always there and get their powers by worship (like you stated) if we take talos for example, he was a normal man who conquered much of tamriel and was worshiped. Because of this worship he rose to be a god (like literally he became an actual god) so gods are made by worship and Lewis's theory is actually a very good one. I as well thought that because of the fact gods become gods by worship that they could have worshiped the constellations which then caused them to become these celestials that can gain a body and come to mundus
I subscribe to the theory where the celestials are entities created by the magic leaking to mundus in certain shapes and therefore became their distinct gods that give mortals talents based of who has the most influence in the sky that day
So not knowing if there is a video already covering this but what if the moons can do the same thing as the stars and thats what caused them to disappear for the few years? This would make sense how the moons affect the khajit births. Just a thought in case it hasnt been covered.
It really is hard to tell what the Celestials are, but I think they could share similarities with the Magna-Ge and Meridia specifically. From the descriptions we have of the Magna-Ge, they are Anuic spirits defined by their flights from Mundus, meaning they are only Magna-Ge after they've ripped a hole in the firmament and at that point they are for some reason also thought of as the hole/star itself (see Mnemo-Li). This would mean that Meridia left Mundus, to be able to be considered among the Magna-Ge, but then returned to fill the role of Daedric Prince and all the other stuff she's done after Creation. So if one hole can have a personality, I don't see why one star or a collection of star could do the same. A less lore-based theory I have for the Celestials is that The Elder Scrolls universe functions somewhat like Terry Pratches' Disc World where belief and believers empower the deity. Meaning that enough Nedes believed the stars held power over their lives, that'd manifest if enough of them held that belief.
Woahhhhhh buddy, you expect us to leap from CHIM, dragonbreaks, and the equation of Talos to living constellations with the ability to manifest on Nirn? Oh, ok. I guess that's not that big of a stretch. 🤣 This is a funny statement, but also what went through my mind when he was explaining.
It's funny how I'm really leaning onto the idea that maybe the writers just wanted to throw something into the Lore that definitely doesn't fits, and sew the mental gymnastics people would go through to make it fit.
3rd time I’ve seen your videos recommended to me in the last couple days so I’ll take the hint and sub. Great content, thank you for helping keep TES community alive!
I think this Nedic star cult lore can be grounded better in the older ES lore by linking it with Altmer religion and metaphysics. Most of the High Elves believe in ascending to Aetherius, and those who ascended (prime example was Auri-El) become the Aedra (Ancestors). It could be said that the successful rites of passage in Altmeri society reflect individual elven preparations for eventual, physical death. The races of Men used to believe these things, example being the early Nedes - but they have long since forgotten key metaphysical principles. Many Men now simply worship their genealogical ancestors - those who are buried in the tombs and barrows. From this misperception spawn draugr, and many other monstrosities. From this, we can form an (arguably) coherent story and say that the Celestials are the Aedra - in the original elven sense of "metaphysically ascended ancestral being." The holes in the sky are not literal 'holes' but star portals, which are composed of an interconnected network of star constellations, galaxies and nebulae.
People always commit the same mistake: they think that canon is writen in stone and inviolable. But canon is just *_a guide for any writers working in a given universe._* What is writen in the lore books in TESO *_is the interpretation of what the scholars that wrote such books thought was the truth about how Nirn came to be._* An interpretation *_born from millennia old legends, religious dogma and assumptions about the nature of the world and its origin._*
No, canon is what the authors says happens in their universe. When it's a cooperative project, like elder scrolls, then it can become guidelines with specific exceptions.
@@stronglove4cocacola Wrong. Canon _both says what happens in-universe and acts as a guide for subsequent writers working in that universe._ And what is writen in TES lore books *_IS, IN-UNIVERSE, "THE INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE SCHOLARS THAT WROTE SUCH BOOKS THOUGHT WAS THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW NIRN CAME TO BE_* mixed with bits explaining the story of that universe, its countries, cultures, etc. Please, try to develop some critical thinking and text interpretation skills before making any comment, ok?
Near the beginning of the video at around 3 minutes, you referred to Craglorn as DLC xD. It is not. It was part of the base game. It served as the endgame zone, until they started releasing more content. It still is technically the endgame zone, as the overworld stuff is still more difficult than any other zone, but most players can still easily solo it with a semi-competant build.
Its been this perfect storm of having motivation, having time, having several cool subjects finished research on and having found some actual fun in playing certain questlines I dreaded before
@@ImperialKnowledge that’s cool a lot of eso quests take a lot of motivation because they are so long and some times frustrating but it’s worth it for the well done writing (in most cases ).
Going to guess that the inconsistencies between what we see from the Celestials and other legends might have to do with the idea that most of these are just legends made up by the mortals as some attempt to understand the divine nature of their world that they don't fully understand. Like different cultures view what is believed to be the same gods do have variations, like the perfect example is how most Elven Cultures view Lorkhan in a negative light while most Human Cultures view the same being more Positively. Or how most Dunmer view Boethiah as a Good Daedra while others view it being evil
My personal headcanon is that can be re-arranged and mixed into different pantheon. Take a peace of Azura, Julianos and Hermaeus Mora and you get the celestial mage. Generally, I don't think that Daedras and the like exist as individuals and then are worshipped differently depending on culture but rather that the beliefs of those cultures allow the cosmic forces of atherius to manifest differently on nirn.
Except that, most Daedra have absolutely nothing to do with Aetherius (except Meridia and Malacath) and vice versa seeing as how the Daedra spring from Padomay and the Aedra from Anu-- the super-meta cosmic forces representing chaos and order. And we know that the gods are more than interpretations of cosmic forces, because Lorkhan's physical heart remained under Red Mountain until the Third Era. Also, you can visit the realms of the Daedric Lords and see them for yourself in their home realm within Oblivion, over which Nirn, Mundus and Aetherius have zero influence.
There are some very interesting things I think need to be considered in order to make sense of this, most of which is confirmable. When it's stated that the sun and stars were made by Magnus and the Magne Ge, and that magic comes to Mundus through them, there are a few things making it clear that this is true. We have the existence of sun magic, presumably drawing directly from the sun, Auriel's Bow, definitely doing exactly that, the otherwise unexplainable presence of magical effects in normal objects for alchemy, seeping into the wildlife from the sky, and the Ayleidic star magic and stones, along with skyshards, which look very much like Aetherium, suggesting a connection to it somehow might be possible. Aside from the evidence of sky-based magic, we have the debatably false story about Hermaeus Mora being made from Magnus' leftover ideas when designing Mundus, which would, while unconfirmable, fully explain how bizarre he is and how he has such an abundance of knowledge about so much magic, some of which is extremely ancient and even forgotten, and some of which seems to include knowledge of concepts like CHIM, the godhead, and sound magic, all of which are fairly obscure ideas to most, and even many players never hear of them. This bit about Mora's origin is important to what I think these celestials might be. The constellations have been occasionally personified before to a lesser degree, and it's clear due to the Standing Stones that at some point, the early humans on Tamriel put serious work into finding ways of using the magic from them. Since nede is a term sometimes used to refer not just to the race that became imperials but to ancient humans in general, it's not totally clear what this story is saying when it says nedes. If it does mean Cyrodiilic people, there's a good chance that they existed alongside Ayleids early on and may have had similar magic ideas, paying more attention to stars and thus, adding some small degree of legitimacy to this trippy lunacy. Based on these things combined, I've reached the conclusion that the Celestials are probably some wacky combo product of earth-bone and star magic, and the the beings who originally existed in this form were probably the same earth-bones that formed the more physical world, but they instead added pretty colors to the sky. Then at some point, early men studying primordial magic sources figured out some means of harvesting this to a profound level, mantling the pre-existing and not fully sentient beings to become similar, but more free versions of them, and that the resulting Celestials may be something similar to an Aedra in power, being potentially very effective, but relying on special things like those stones in order to apply that power. We know that whatever ridiculous combined essence formed Talos can reach that exact level of strength in comparable form, and that Arkay according to his own priests did, so this is the most logical explanation I can come to, although it's still VERY trippy, and I feel like a raving madman just saying it. Sorry if this is a bit long to read, but it's based on such a crazy combination of deep and obscure lore that I couldn't explain what I'm considering here otherwise.
Appreciate the thoughts, but Ill have to sit down and take some time to read and try to understand it since a quick skim didnt do it (currently busy making food haha)
@@ImperialKnowledge Yeah, I do a lot of thinking on the more wacky and bizarre stuff, so sometimes my explanations for it are difficult to understand until you look a few times. If I ever have the time, I want to make videos attempting to make sense of the most trippy lore, but the editing side of that makes any progress on forming a cohesive video pretty hard for me. If I actually get around to it, I'll be sure to tell you so some of my ramblings might help when you encounter things like this.
@@UnswimmingFishYT Ah cool! I mean that kind of lore often also works in podcast format. So just recording it and then ducttaping some music under it can go a long way to make it watchable. If its something you are passionate about, go for it! Let me know if I can do anything to help, like share some assets or something. Any new TES creator is a win for the community. Be sure to DM me on discord (Zorkonov#7078) instagram (Imperial_Zorkonov) or Twitter (@notfarengar) that way Ill actually see the message most of the time. As comments can be unreliable
Eventually I’ll probably cover them all. Nedes is a bit hard since there are different population groups of nedes with all their own stories. I covered some of those stories in other videos. But I like to do in depth videos most of the time so a general video on “the nedes” seems unlikely but maybe one day. I am gearing towards doing the stories of ESO Dark Brotherhood and Imperial City DLC’s soon, but videos take a while so stay tuned!
More like Crack-lorn storyline. How many more times do we have to save Nirn before random made-up threats when the real ones are obviously the marketing team and writers ?
Maybe the Celestials are lesser Magna Ge? Though I do think the theory that the Celestials were once mortals does make a lot of sense to and has a lot of evidence to back it up.
I find it more likely the Magna Ge operate in Aetherius like Daedra Princes operate in Oblivion. Therefore the Celestials are like Aetherius' lesser daedra. Instead of morals creating Magna Ge into Celestial spiders, they have found a way to use the Celestial energies leaking through the stars to make beings into the shapes of animals and daedras.
I feel like kulpas have to be something like that because it really doesnt make sense otherwise. How could time(akatosh) have been made then help make nirn right after during the mythic era if there was a previous reality? Time is the begining. I once read something about how each kulpa the gods all switch and peryite will be akatosh in the next kalpa but it still doesnt make sense bcause lygg was the last one, but Dagon didnt switch his roles and also the yakuda came from the last kalpa but yet not from lygg? Non of it makes any sense!
@@ImperialKnowledge There was a leak maybe 2-3 years ago, some of the old guard writters and devs who had been there up to 15 years were complaining that the creative director at the time seemingly didn't even want the job, was completely dismissive of narratives and lore that had been built up over the course of their career. While you can argue that the project is bigger than any one writter or writters, people were still miffed at years of continuity being disregarded out of hand and in their view it was outright disrespectful.
@@greenfrogbad never heard of that but that could make sense of some strange decisions of the eso launch/2 years post launch period. Because everything post Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild has been pretty good to really good imo
Mortals climbing to demi-godhood is a wonderful concept. But terrible execution on the part of the writers. Even worse sense of it. And horrendous placement
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
So eh a question to people watching. I have some more time for videos the coming week but I am kind of in doubt what to cover. Out of these options below, which one would you like to see covered?
- Imperial City DLC story ESO
- Dark Brotherhood ESO story + gold coast power struggle explained.
- Markarth Incident + the new boardgame lore that was added.
- Lore of Lamia’s
- Remaster some old videos from the pre 2019 era
I would def love to see some more about the imperial city and the markarth incident plz 🪄
Imperial city!
Far as ESO storylines, I think it would be best to go in the order of release.
@@badluck5647 In hindsight that would have been best but I already covered some and have done research into some which are not in order. Plus, I tend to be really slow in my process so the order would get f*d anyway eventually.
@@ImperialKnowledge Between Imperial City and Brotherhood, the Imperial City came first.
Worry about Orsinium (one my favorite main storylines) and the Thieves Guild later.
My pet theory is that Celestials are Aetherius' equivalent to lesser daedra.
The obvious connection between Celestials and Aetherius is the stars -- which are said to be holes to Aetherius.
I can see why one would assume that the Celestials are the Magna Ge or ascended mortals as the Warrior, the Thief, the Mage, and the Serpent would fit nicely into those theories. However, how would one explain the Celestials created by the Serpent Court in the shape of animals and daedra? If Celestials are Aetherium "daedra", then it would explain how some mortals can shape their forms like mage can shape a daedric vestige.
The Serpent is also not too different from another creation of the Magna Ge -- Mehrunes Dagon.
So, lesser Aedra, similar to the dragons
@@Gabranicus Sort of. However, dragons seem to be connected with just the Time God instead of Aetherius in general, and the dragons' plane of existence seems tied to Nirn.
My pet theory is that ESO writing is terrible.
@@EJDubbz
That tends to happen when you let all your good writers go
Fun fact: when you fight the Warrior at the end of Hel Ra Citadel, he actually summons a shehai sword against you.
That and more in an upcoming lore video on sword singing at some poiny
@@ImperialKnowledge can’t wait!
@@ImperialKnowledge broooo I'm so stoked for them to ruin sword singing in es6 lmfao
@@JamesMadisonsSpiritAnimal you can't ruin something when all their actual lore added by eso about barely a decade ago 😂😂 lets hope we'll actuall SEE some sword singing what with Sai rediscovered the ability in 2nd era
My suspicion is that the ESO writers initially intended the Craglorn story to feature lesser known gods like Ebonarm and Ius, which is why some of the Celestials were named as such in the concept art, but that idea was overturned by higher ups.
The former head writer originally intended Abnur Tharn to be the original identity of Zurin Arctus but also wasn't allowed to do so. I think something similar happened with the Celestials story because Zenimax have seemingly gone out of their way to erase Ebonarm specifically by removing mentions of his name from books in ESO, so they likely wouldn't allow their writers to use him in a story either.
Someone likely had a cool idea to do something with old forgotten gods and had a story more or less planned out, but were told they couldn't include these characters. Because they still needed a story for Craglorn, the writer was made to repurpose what they had with other characters, which is how the Celestials were invented.
Maybe Ebonarm will play some role in TES VI
They handled that pretty well then. I love celestial they are basically nicer C'tan from 40k
@@JulesBlues122 doubtful given the amount of mateiral hes been removed from in eso.
You're going on a lore rampage these last few months. Actual content machine!
I have time now hahah. Wait for the drop in content when the students go back to school and my job resumes
If there’s any fictional world that needs a movie series or show it’s The Elder Scrolls. I’ve never seen a world with so much interesting and deep lore. I would be first in line to watch it if it ever happened. Imagine if they made a series about Pelinal Whitestrake, it’d be insane.
Really depends on what the show would do because with The Elder Scrolls a lot of things like unreliable narrator and a movie could ruin a lot of that and take away the mystery. Let's not forget different characters have different perspectives, whose perspective do we absorb here when it comes to pelinal whitestrake?
@@77wolfblade very true tbh. I think it should be the perspective of whatever would make a better story and would absorb the most audience, if that makes sense.
After the Halo show, I'm worried about that stuff. If they make a show or movie, they NEED Todd Howard's influence on the writing also with the input of other writers of the TES games. They have to have a writer supported by actual writers, or a writer who is actually invested in the games and understands the lore and everything, so they don't fuck up and just make the show their own original creation with TES elements like the Halo show did. It'd have to be Canon, and accurate.
I think a show about Tipal The Pilot would be a good premise too cause it gives room for some creative liberty and shows us an early part of the TES lore as well. He'd be exploring major areas of Tamriel we know and love. He could have a bunch of crazy experiences with things and people that he discovers across Tamriel as he maps it down. He could meet the extinct races and the proto races that we haven't seen yet. He himself is an Aldmer too.
Honestly anything from the Merethic Era would be the perfect setting for a show cause of all of the things that we don't know yet. Kinda like a KOTOR thing.
Maybe instead of focusing on one character entirely, it could be like Star Wars Tales of the Jedi, and have a whole bunch of mini stories about major events untouched by the TES games so far. Maybe something on the Dwemer and Falmer, or Ayleid society, Chimer and how they got cursed, or maybe how some of the other man or breast races went extinct such as the Kothringi or Lilmothiit. But also leaving some stuff out for fans to speculate and wonder about. More so to give us an idea visually of how these things played out, and not ruining any of the mystery and fun of TES lore.
Idk man.. the LOTR show, the Halo show, now the trailer for the Fallout show.. so far the recent trend of new media for established popular franchises feels cheap and crappy and cash-grabby and not like the studios making these tie-ins took up the project out of passion or interest, rather they were selected by committee to cobble together yet another Hallmark-looking ass drama that loosely resembles one of your once-beloved stories. Hands off my Elder Scrolls until you can prove you can do it right with something I don’t care about.. Lord of the Rings was a bridge too far
Hell yeah Craglorn lore video, playing through ESO for the first time and found this zone story to be cool and unique. Glad more people will hear about this weird stuff!
My theory is the reason for the existence of the Celestials is twofold:
1) From an out-of-game perspective, they explain why our characters in ESO don't have to choose birthsigns; the constellations weren't even in the heavens, so the power gained from birthsigns is taken away, replaced with only the Mundus Stones we find that are small replications of the Apex Stones, and are empowered even further when the Celestials are present.
2) From an in-lore perspective, I think the Celestials and the march of the Constellations represents the Amaranth's subconscious dreaming. It's the three usual archetypes - Warrior, Mage, Thief - against some seemingly-unbeatable opponent - the Serpent. It's the Amaranth cooking up a new story in their subconscious to dream. The Nedes developed a way to pull down these half-formed heroes-versus-evil stories and 'realize' them before their time - as though pulling them out of the Dreamer's anticipatory subconscious before it itself fully birthed them. There may have been need to supplement their forms, hence the fusion with Mortals, allowing a half-baked dream-concept to fully realize in Mundus.
The fact that this was done by "accident" / the Scaled Court all at once in Craglorn is the reason ESO is an MMO; there's not just *one* birthsign/guardian making up or protecting the hero, but all three, because the Dream isn't fully realized and the usual tale of hero-versus-serpent is shattered, making it heroes-versus-serpents.
In other words, I think the Craglorn zone story was endgame content that tried to cosmogenically justify ESO's total change of system and pace and the 'Dream' that's been present since launch.
They are C'tan in Elder Scrolls.
My theory is that the Serpent replaced Meridia among the Magne-Ge, forcing Meridia to become a daedra.
Aside from the explanation of the Craglorn writers not being familiar with TES lore, I believe the mythopoeic nature of reality in TES might be how its possible for the Celestials to be both physical beings and holes in the Mundus.
In TES, reality is largely dictated by belief. When enough mortals start believing something, that thing can become real. This effect seems to be particularly potent when it comes to Gods, Daedra, and other supernatural beings, with the greatest examples of this being the creation of the two-headed version of Akatosh by the First Empress, the appearance of Daedra being effected by the belief of their followers in the land they're manifesting in(people in Elswyre see Daedra as Cats, while in other countries we see them in forms that match their mythologies of those people.), and the Marukhati Selective being able to alter the nature of a God through their belief in the ritual they used, the Dance of Towers.
Because the ancient Duraki Star Cultists had strong enough belief that the Celestials were physical beings, they are physical beings. But because others see them as just being holes in reality, the are also just holes.
Both are true because both are believed they are/were true.
This is also supported by the Redguard belief that the Serpent constellation is a manifestation of Sep who is cursed to slither about the sky in the dead skin of the previous world for all of reality for tricking the other Gods/Spirits into becoming part of the world(also making him their Lorkhan parallel).
Depending on the rituals invoked and the strength of the belief of those who made the rituals, the same constellation can present itself as any or all of its manifestations at any point.
The Craglorn zone quest was one of the best I found.
I agree that it's important we don't take anything as absolute fact in the lore, because Elder Scrolls lore is by design very weird. Of course in reality it can be seen as a bit of a cop-out and a way to let the developers get away with not really knowing all the lore, but I think it's more fun to take the evidence we get and try to theorize around it, much like the characters in-universe would have to (and of course we have access to way more information than any one character in the universe ever has had).
If the celestials being can take a mortal form or vise versa then it make sense if Pelinal Whitestrake was a celestials because he is a star-made knight
Thank you for covering the Craglorn lore. I mainly play ESO solo for the character and armor customization and the second era lore. So, I haven't actually traveled to Craglorn as I hear it is a zone with many encounters meant for group PvE.
Craglorn can be done solo but aside from about 5 world bosses. You do need to be high level though and it’s a lot more combat intensive than all the other zones
My advice if you want to do Craglorn is to make a high damage aoe build and get your hands on the Ring of the Pale Order. That's what I did with my necromancer and I rarely have any trouble.
For me playing Craglorn The first time and Exploring the mainstory felt so super Amazing, because every quest and everything you do has some sort of connection to the Main Story and also the best is that the Trials/Raids are the final Fights against the Celestials. The Craglorn DLC is imo an example of how should a DLC Look like.
Craglorn was unique.
The Craglorn story is one of my favourite parts of ESO. It doesn’t get anything like the mentions it deserves.
I discovered your channel a few days ago and it is simply amazing. Keep up with making these amazing videos!
Cool! I reccomend avoiding my oldest videos as they are quite bad, but hope you will find some entertainment from the good ones :)
He's right about the old stuff, I've seen some of it. The information is fairly solid, because he's always done a good job of trying to make sense of the maddening lore of TES, but things from 2020 and onwards have much better quality for watching it. The rest gets less comfortable for viewing the further back you go, but there's still a lot of information this guy covers that most TES channels don't, the main reason I like seeing it.
I watched his videos years ago to have links to send to my friends to have them catch up on TES lore and from time to time to catch a glimpse on some concept that were obscure even for me
Now I'm plunging back in after a few years away from the Elder Scrolls community to help refresh my memory on the lore as I'm getting back in (I know that it will be a wild ride)
So I wish you good luck, this channel is real treasure trove of lore content from what I remember
@@UnswimmingFishYT yeah its been a turbulent adventure this channel hahah. Id say everything starting 2018 is watchable, starting the tail end of 2019 its comfortable haha. But I also dont feel like remastering every single video when I have limited time and so much new stuff left to cover
@@sephikong8323 i have not stopped making videos for the past few years so you should have a lot to catch up on. I tend to go more in depth now and more focussed on singular subjects. So for example: all the lore on a type of monster/animal. Or random subjects like the love/marriage traditions of each of tamriel’s cultures
The celestials were ancient nedes that experimented with nirncrux to become demigods. Thats like some heart of Lorkhan levels of power right there. And it makes you wonder about the composite makeup of nirncrux to give it so much power.....
Since this video is all about Craglorn it would be great if it would be mentioned in the title. I could see myself coming back for these after replaying through the zones to get a complete understanding about what I just played through with background about the factions etc.
I put it in the tags so if you search “imperial knowledge craglorn” it should come up
Awesome video! Loved the music, really fit the "celestial" vibe. Ive been hoping someone would cover a video about these characters for a long time. I always found them to be such an oddly lesser discussed topic ingame. The divines are always the talk of everyone, but nobody talks about the Celestials, and few books I have read mention much about them other than the common interpretation of them being simply constellations with a story.
As for a next video topic, I guess Id say Lamia's Lore.
The best lore comes from the time when the writers were high.
Michael kirkbride: hello there.
Same with alot of music genres too, weird huh.
Honestly in alot of fantasy that uses the constalations and zodiarc signs the serpent is quite often depicted as the evil or darker 13th who's pressence is hidden or antagonistic compaired to the other 12. Given the real world dominant religous context of the serpent being a deciver, or the literal devil in disguise alot of stories make Ophiuchus's avatar either evil or dark in nature.
Seems like the first theory is most likely to be true: the ancient humans of Tamriel who worshipped the stars figured out a way to harness them and tap into their power, and then the constellations are people from amongst them who channeled the most potent stars and bound themselves to them. The majority of them probably used stars that were relatively close together already, but the Serpent probably chose stars from all across the sky, allowing it to freely travel between those points and usurp the power and influence of all the others.
Stars in TES lore are just holes in fabric of universe
@@JulesBlues122 They are specifically pathways into Aetherius, and presumably therefore represent channels to power.
That said, they were also worshiped by many early human cultures, especially on Tamriel, and it seems that either through the power of said worship or through some sort of more direct magical manipulation, the stars have become *more than that simple reality.* Unless you want to deny the gameplay and say that all of what was going on in that questline was hallucination or illusion work.
@@JulesBlues122allegedly. Perhaps they are both star stars but also portals to atherius.
skooma was on the brains when they wrote this
The 1st theory is the same i had when i did that zone and i agree with you. Also, the 1st theory doen's contradict the existing lore about the stars
Dude I’ve been subscribed a while and I love this channel you cover a lot of the more obscure, not much talked about stuff it’s so awesome
Thanks! :)
Gods in ES lore are bound to worship (which is why the Thalmor are so determined to stop Talos worship). It's also possible that the Nedes started worshipping the stars, and as a result, inadverently conjured these demigods into actual existence. That would let both star theories exist at the same time and both be 100% true.
They are not they aren't D&D gods. What worship effects is the influence they can exact on Nirn.
@berilsevvalbekret772 that is wrong, the person you replied to is correct, and I came up with a similar theory that they did before I even looked at the comments. Gods are created by worship, they are not always there and get their powers by worship (like you stated) if we take talos for example, he was a normal man who conquered much of tamriel and was worshiped. Because of this worship he rose to be a god (like literally he became an actual god) so gods are made by worship and Lewis's theory is actually a very good one. I as well thought that because of the fact gods become gods by worship that they could have worshiped the constellations which then caused them to become these celestials that can gain a body and come to mundus
I subscribe to the theory where the celestials are entities created by the magic leaking to mundus in certain shapes and therefore became their distinct gods that give mortals talents based of who has the most influence in the sky that day
Or, hear me out, this one is a stretch, the creation story of the elder scrolls isn't accurate it at all
Thanks for clearing up my question about the Celestials in the Elder Scrolls and the Celestials from Star Wars.
Lol didnt know Star Wars also had them
@@ImperialKnowledge They're one of the many ancient aliens, a rather popular trope in sci fi.
@@ximthedespot4673 ah okay
There's a book in Skyrim that shows the story of the Celestials and their battles so it may be cannon.
So not knowing if there is a video already covering this but what if the moons can do the same thing as the stars and thats what caused them to disappear for the few years? This would make sense how the moons affect the khajit births. Just a thought in case it hasnt been covered.
Quick one - Craglorn is not a DLC, just a zone in ESO
It was but ESO had a rebranding with one Tamriel. Now Craglorn is included in the base game.
If i can say anything about the developers: moonsugar is one daedra of a product. I'm sure skooma was involved in the celestials
It really is hard to tell what the Celestials are, but I think they could share similarities with the Magna-Ge and Meridia specifically.
From the descriptions we have of the Magna-Ge, they are Anuic spirits defined by their flights from Mundus, meaning they are only Magna-Ge after they've ripped a hole in the firmament and at that point they are for some reason also thought of as the hole/star itself (see Mnemo-Li). This would mean that Meridia left Mundus, to be able to be considered among the Magna-Ge, but then returned to fill the role of Daedric Prince and all the other stuff she's done after Creation.
So if one hole can have a personality, I don't see why one star or a collection of star could do the same.
A less lore-based theory I have for the Celestials is that The Elder Scrolls universe functions somewhat like Terry Pratches' Disc World where belief and believers empower the deity. Meaning that enough Nedes believed the stars held power over their lives, that'd manifest if enough of them held that belief.
Woahhhhhh buddy, you expect us to leap from CHIM, dragonbreaks, and the equation of Talos to living constellations with the ability to manifest on Nirn?
Oh, ok. I guess that's not that big of a stretch. 🤣
This is a funny statement, but also what went through my mind when he was explaining.
It's funny how I'm really leaning onto the idea that maybe the writers just wanted to throw something into the Lore that definitely doesn't fits, and sew the mental gymnastics people would go through to make it fit.
3rd time I’ve seen your videos recommended to me in the last couple days so I’ll take the hint and sub. Great content, thank you for helping keep TES community alive!
Thanks for the sub!
Love your work. Keep it up!
I think this Nedic star cult lore can be grounded better in the older ES lore by linking it with Altmer religion and metaphysics. Most of the High Elves believe in ascending to Aetherius, and those who ascended (prime example was Auri-El) become the Aedra (Ancestors). It could be said that the successful rites of passage in Altmeri society reflect individual elven preparations for eventual, physical death. The races of Men used to believe these things, example being the early Nedes - but they have long since forgotten key metaphysical principles. Many Men now simply worship their genealogical ancestors - those who are buried in the tombs and barrows. From this misperception spawn draugr, and many other monstrosities. From this, we can form an (arguably) coherent story and say that the Celestials are the Aedra - in the original elven sense of "metaphysically ascended ancestral being." The holes in the sky are not literal 'holes' but star portals, which are composed of an interconnected network of star constellations, galaxies and nebulae.
"Are the writers high?"
Most likely, yes.
People always commit the same mistake: they think that canon is writen in stone and inviolable. But canon is just *_a guide for any writers working in a given universe._* What is writen in the lore books in TESO *_is the interpretation of what the scholars that wrote such books thought was the truth about how Nirn came to be._* An interpretation *_born from millennia old legends, religious dogma and assumptions about the nature of the world and its origin._*
No, canon is what the authors says happens in their universe. When it's a cooperative project, like elder scrolls, then it can become guidelines with specific exceptions.
@@stronglove4cocacola Wrong. Canon _both says what happens in-universe and acts as a guide for subsequent writers working in that universe._ And what is writen in TES lore books *_IS, IN-UNIVERSE, "THE INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE SCHOLARS THAT WROTE SUCH BOOKS THOUGHT WAS THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW NIRN CAME TO BE_* mixed with bits explaining the story of that universe, its countries, cultures, etc. Please, try to develop some critical thinking and text interpretation skills before making any comment, ok?
Mantling makes the most sense to me.
Isn't the snake a symbol of Lorkhan?
Ah hell yea! I wanted to see a video on these things for a looong time.
Hope you’ll like the video eventhough its a bit vague
You should cover the 3 Alliances Zones Stories for sure. I literally cannot find any videos on that and lore is pretty good.
Thanks so much for this video, I really wanted to learn this lore but I was never strong enough in the game to finish this story
Near the beginning of the video at around 3 minutes, you referred to Craglorn as DLC xD. It is not. It was part of the base game. It served as the endgame zone, until they started releasing more content. It still is technically the endgame zone, as the overworld stuff is still more difficult than any other zone, but most players can still easily solo it with a semi-competant build.
That first theory you mentioned is actually really cool and I like that idea
Man you have been a roll lately awesome !
Its been this perfect storm of having motivation, having time, having several cool subjects finished research on and having found some actual fun in playing certain questlines I dreaded before
@@ImperialKnowledge that’s cool a lot of eso quests take a lot of motivation because they are so long and some times frustrating but it’s worth it for the well done writing (in most cases ).
I've played eso since 2015 and have not once played the craglorn area, I want to so bad but all my friend hate eso
Going to guess that the inconsistencies between what we see from the Celestials and other legends might have to do with the idea that most of these are just legends made up by the mortals as some attempt to understand the divine nature of their world that they don't fully understand.
Like different cultures view what is believed to be the same gods do have variations, like the perfect example is how most Elven Cultures view Lorkhan in a negative light while most Human Cultures view the same being more Positively. Or how most Dunmer view Boethiah as a Good Daedra while others view it being evil
Yeah that implication is something I like from this
Interesting is that in our world we have the 13th Zodiac sign called Serpent-Bearer, which isn't recognised as much as other 12, but still
Huh, lore obscure enough I don't know about it. Good show. 🤔
Michael Kirkbride was on that strong zaza jesus lmao
Unstar sounds like fucking Black Holes which I consider canon 😊 its SUCH a cool idea
Sᴏᴍᴇᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴡɪᴛʜɪɴ ᴛʜᴇ Lᴏʀᴇ ᴄᴀɴ ᴀᴘᴘᴇᴀʀ ᴛᴏ ʙᴇ ᴍɪssɪɴɢ ʜᴇʀᴇ .
Lorkhan is the serpent ❤
Imperial knowledge is the oxhorn of skyrim
Hopefully without the scandals.
And without the views
@@ImperialKnowledge lmao
Oof
who?
Youre borderline there alrady, Elder Scrollls metaphysics is the only way to go
*dramatic music* Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo never!!
My personal headcanon is that can be re-arranged and mixed into different pantheon. Take a peace of Azura, Julianos and Hermaeus Mora and you get the celestial mage.
Generally, I don't think that Daedras and the like exist as individuals and then are worshipped differently depending on culture but rather that the beliefs of those cultures allow the cosmic forces of atherius to manifest differently on nirn.
Except that, most Daedra have absolutely nothing to do with Aetherius (except Meridia and Malacath) and vice versa seeing as how the Daedra spring from Padomay and the Aedra from Anu-- the super-meta cosmic forces representing chaos and order. And we know that the gods are more than interpretations of cosmic forces, because Lorkhan's physical heart remained under Red Mountain until the Third Era. Also, you can visit the realms of the Daedric Lords and see them for yourself in their home realm within Oblivion, over which Nirn, Mundus and Aetherius have zero influence.
imperial city
A goo thing of TES is that lore isn't always clear enough to be history so it becomes more like a myth, it feel better imo
There are some very interesting things I think need to be considered in order to make sense of this, most of which is confirmable. When it's stated that the sun and stars were made by Magnus and the Magne Ge, and that magic comes to Mundus through them, there are a few things making it clear that this is true. We have the existence of sun magic, presumably drawing directly from the sun, Auriel's Bow, definitely doing exactly that, the otherwise unexplainable presence of magical effects in normal objects for alchemy, seeping into the wildlife from the sky, and the Ayleidic star magic and stones, along with skyshards, which look very much like Aetherium, suggesting a connection to it somehow might be possible.
Aside from the evidence of sky-based magic, we have the debatably false story about Hermaeus Mora being made from Magnus' leftover ideas when designing Mundus, which would, while unconfirmable, fully explain how bizarre he is and how he has such an abundance of knowledge about so much magic, some of which is extremely ancient and even forgotten, and some of which seems to include knowledge of concepts like CHIM, the godhead, and sound magic, all of which are fairly obscure ideas to most, and even many players never hear of them. This bit about Mora's origin is important to what I think these celestials might be.
The constellations have been occasionally personified before to a lesser degree, and it's clear due to the Standing Stones that at some point, the early humans on Tamriel put serious work into finding ways of using the magic from them. Since nede is a term sometimes used to refer not just to the race that became imperials but to ancient humans in general, it's not totally clear what this story is saying when it says nedes. If it does mean Cyrodiilic people, there's a good chance that they existed alongside Ayleids early on and may have had similar magic ideas, paying more attention to stars and thus, adding some small degree of legitimacy to this trippy lunacy.
Based on these things combined, I've reached the conclusion that the Celestials are probably some wacky combo product of earth-bone and star magic, and the the beings who originally existed in this form were probably the same earth-bones that formed the more physical world, but they instead added pretty colors to the sky. Then at some point, early men studying primordial magic sources figured out some means of harvesting this to a profound level, mantling the pre-existing and not fully sentient beings to become similar, but more free versions of them, and that the resulting Celestials may be something similar to an Aedra in power, being potentially very effective, but relying on special things like those stones in order to apply that power. We know that whatever ridiculous combined essence formed Talos can reach that exact level of strength in comparable form, and that Arkay according to his own priests did, so this is the most logical explanation I can come to, although it's still VERY trippy, and I feel like a raving madman just saying it. Sorry if this is a bit long to read, but it's based on such a crazy combination of deep and obscure lore that I couldn't explain what I'm considering here otherwise.
Appreciate the thoughts, but Ill have to sit down and take some time to read and try to understand it since a quick skim didnt do it (currently busy making food haha)
@@ImperialKnowledge Yeah, I do a lot of thinking on the more wacky and bizarre stuff, so sometimes my explanations for it are difficult to understand until you look a few times. If I ever have the time, I want to make videos attempting to make sense of the most trippy lore, but the editing side of that makes any progress on forming a cohesive video pretty hard for me. If I actually get around to it, I'll be sure to tell you so some of my ramblings might help when you encounter things like this.
@@UnswimmingFishYT Ah cool! I mean that kind of lore often also works in podcast format. So just recording it and then ducttaping some music under it can go a long way to make it watchable. If its something you are passionate about, go for it! Let me know if I can do anything to help, like share some assets or something. Any new TES creator is a win for the community. Be sure to DM me on discord (Zorkonov#7078) instagram (Imperial_Zorkonov) or Twitter (@notfarengar) that way Ill actually see the message most of the time. As comments can be unreliable
You should do a vid on abnur tharn 🎉 love ur bids
😵💫
woud you be interested in doing lore videos on the stories of the other eso dlcs?? or a video on the nedes?? seem like great video ideas
Eventually I’ll probably cover them all. Nedes is a bit hard since there are different population groups of nedes with all their own stories. I covered some of those stories in other videos. But I like to do in depth videos most of the time so a general video on “the nedes” seems unlikely but maybe one day. I am gearing towards doing the stories of ESO Dark Brotherhood and Imperial City DLC’s soon, but videos take a while so stay tuned!
@@ImperialKnowledge sweet!!
More like Crack-lorn storyline. How many more times do we have to save Nirn before random made-up threats when the real ones are obviously the marketing team and writers ?
TES has some of the weirdest lore.
Maybe the Celestials are lesser Magna Ge? Though I do think the theory that the Celestials were once mortals does make a lot of sense to and has a lot of evidence to back it up.
It seems craglorn points towards it imo but they never really answered the question. Makes me wonder if they had the answer thought out at all
I find it more likely the Magna Ge operate in Aetherius like Daedra Princes operate in Oblivion. Therefore the Celestials are like Aetherius' lesser daedra.
Instead of morals creating Magna Ge into Celestial spiders, they have found a way to use the Celestial energies leaking through the stars to make beings into the shapes of animals and daedras.
I feel like kulpas have to be something like that because it really doesnt make sense otherwise. How could time(akatosh) have been made then help make nirn right after during the mythic era if there was a previous reality? Time is the begining. I once read something about how each kulpa the gods all switch and peryite will be akatosh in the next kalpa but it still doesnt make sense bcause lygg was the last one, but Dagon didnt switch his roles and also the yakuda came from the last kalpa but yet not from lygg? Non of it makes any sense!
Hello!
Hi!
Just wait until you see the Dwemer in TES6
Would not be the first time that someone stole divine power.
I swear, the developers of ESO have to be snorting moon sugar.
"The writters didn't know ES lore existed". The story of ESO.
Honestly ESO has some really cool stuff but also some really weird mistakes, mostly in the early stuff as I noticed its getting better generally.
@@ImperialKnowledge There was a leak maybe 2-3 years ago, some of the old guard writters and devs who had been there up to 15 years were complaining that the creative director at the time seemingly didn't even want the job, was completely dismissive of narratives and lore that had been built up over the course of their career. While you can argue that the project is bigger than any one writter or writters, people were still miffed at years of continuity being disregarded out of hand and in their view it was outright disrespectful.
@@greenfrogbad never heard of that but that could make sense of some strange decisions of the eso launch/2 years post launch period. Because everything post Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild has been pretty good to really good imo
Mortals climbing to demi-godhood is a wonderful concept.
But terrible execution on the part of the writers. Even worse sense of it. And horrendous placement
Guys with names ending in zar are always up to no good.
Stuff like this is why the unreliable narrator does more damage than good if it's not used carefully
Smh... of course it's ESO "lore"