Pikmin 2 speedrunning is more dynamic with the RNG. It's not so random that there's no skill involved or combinations so bad that they're truly impossible. Pikmin 1 and 3 are the same every time and with 10-20 years of strategy, you can have 1 optimal route and not nearly as much real-time strategizing
I'm gonna have to disagree with this specifically due to your use of "speedrunning." Pikmin 2 feels like the worst to speedrun because the time one gets is dependent largely on dungeon layout. So its impossible to truly compare playthrough times because each playthrough and what needed to be done to complete them varies.
@@Chilly_M04 people speedrun rougelikes all the time, and thats the most random genre there is yet its still super competitive. Sure, you're run can be better or worse depending on layouts and spawns, but most seeds are gonna come with good and bad so pretty much everyones gonna have to deal with it. Also speed running games with random elements like this is a unique form of challenge since speed running it is more about problem solving in real time than just memorizing every layout and exactly what to do where. The level layouts are consistent enough to know what you're generally gonna have to deal with on repeat runs. My favorite example of this is spelunky speed runs, so id recommend giving that a look into.
I've never been the biggest fan of the Doomsday Apparatus, and while it doesn't take long to grind for and obtain in the grand scheme of things, I think there's a much deeper discussion than "it takes 20 minutes to get." My personal issue with it is more about how much of a pace breaker it is. The Pikmin games are amazing examples of games designed for 100% completion, and it's the single blemish to this idea in the series, requiring you to go back into a cave and grind - even if you never lose a single Purple.
The purple onion makes it significantly better by itself, as for a first 100% playthrough, you get a way to mass obtain Purple Pikmin via new and unique gameplay, but there's still issues that come from repeat playthroughs. Spending, like, 2 hours doing the side content or 10 minutes constantly entering and leaving a cave is still a pace breaker, but by that point Pikmin 4's loading times are already putting in the work lol@@dorf7219
@@volvoman5262 yes, but you have to get to the end of a pretty challenging gauntlet. Its a very missable thing too, i didnt play sage trials until after i beat most the other content. just i didnt know they had the other onions in them. i ended up just farming violet candy pop buds pikmin 2 style
One thing about Pikmin 2 I like is that it makes losing Pikmin more detrimental. In Pikmin 1, 3, and for the most part 4 All pikmin are easily replaceable. But in Pikmin 2 losing a white or purple is not an easy replacement which forces you to be careful when using them. Even with other colors in caves you gotta be careful to not lose too many so that you’ll have enough pikmin to do everything the game requires you to do. For example losing 30 reds in Pikmin 1 to a wolly wog means nothing except another trip to the onion to get more at worst. Losing 30 reds in a cave in Pikmin 2 might mean having to reset.
I love getting my day count as low as possible in Pikmin 1, but I feel like people gas up the limited number of days. I never ran out of time even as a kid, and from what other people have told me, neither have they.
I always preferred resource management to time management, as it adds far more variety and replayability to a game, seeing most of the newer community shit on the game breaks my heart
To be fair, I feel the point about purples and the Doomsday Apparatus are fair ones against Pikmin 2. It's the only times in the game where need their carrying buff is required aside from needing only one, with the only other exception being the paper bag early in Awakening Wood if memory serves me right. Either way, it leads to the single thing dissuading you from having purples steamrolling so much of the game being that you need to have 100 of them to complete the game, you aren't gonna know that in your first playthrough either. I wouldn't blame anyone for unlocking Wistful Wild, seeing the treasure and thinking "how was I supposed to know I needed 100 purples?" Keep in mind we play these games a lot, so we know that the treasure exists, where violet candypop buds are to help grind their numbers and how to abuse their powers while keeping them safe, but in the perspective of someone playing for the first time, it'd probably be extremely frustrating, since you'd probably have to both grind way more and not even know where to start. I love Pikmin 2, it was my favorite in the series before 4 just barely took that title, and it's still one of my favorites of all time, but I feel stating the Doomsday Apparatus is a minor inconvenience at most is pretty disingenuous. Not to try to talk shit or anything, I agree with a ton of the points you made in 2's favor, just try to keep in mind how many times you opt out of using purples in combat the next time you play. Almost every time I did from my experience, it was because I knew I needed 100 purples.
To be fair, EVERYONE who played pikmin 2 wanted to field an army of 100 purples at least once. I'd say the flaw is the candypop buds, not the purple pikmin requirement.
Ah... I always forget Schafrillas was part of the "random generation means 0 design" garbage. It's such a dumb argument, and I really want to explain why it's wrong one day.
I honestly think that the frequent use of powerful insta-kill hazards in pikmin 2 is excellent and future games should consider the idea. Let's take the example of fire vs electricity in pikmin 2. With fire, you can just hold B and it's irrelevant. It's just a minor inconvenience, and you only really want to bring like 5 reds to clear out a couple geysers due to their immunity to the hazard being irrelevant. But with electricity, you can still clear out anode beetles and the electrical current wire thingy with purples, but it's incredibly risky. It makes you actually want to use yellows in order to assist you in clearing out hazard.
I appreciate how this video actually both brings up scaffs inconsistency’s without being inconsistent itself. While I personally find Pikmin 2 the least enjoyable game in the series, I have been finding more flaws with a Scaffs video overtime (I think a lot of his worst arguments come down to not fully exploring why he doesn’t like certain elements) and it’s good to have a video that shows those flaws properly without attacking his character.
When I first saw Schafrillas' video over Pikmin 2, I just kind of agreed with him, and accepted that these things just didn't bother me, but after this video, I'm starting to realize how biased his video actually is, and how much it gets wrong. You make incredible points in this video, and I'm glad I found it.
Ok so on the capitalism thing, I feel you are underestimating the capability of kids to understand complexity in stories. And either way, some folks in an audience not understanding something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be in a story, at least in my opinion
Counter point: it does go into it, it is just more interested in telling a story than explaining a "message". You get to see Olimar get screwed over, he loses his ship and the heirloom he brought back for his son, he is sent back to a dangerous planet while his boss has to hide from loan sharks, he has to spend time away from his family. THEN when his mission is over he has to go back with his boss to find his coworker (constantly side tracked by treasure hunting) - while his wife manages to lose their fortune due to greed. And by the end you learn that louie was the cause of all these troubles - all caused by his greed and gluttony. Even the final boss is his fault as he was so intent on staying on the planet despite his grandmother's missing the boy. So the entire story is a cautionary tale about greed in all its forms. Even the gameplay shows this as greed is how you'll lose pikmin more often than not. Be it due to a trap, or mismanaging your time, or even placing your company's future in a shipment of golden pikpik carrots. "If I had more time, I'd have written a shorter letter". Sometimes just telling a story and trusting the audience to get the loose meaning is preferential to an exhaustive and dreary deconstruction.
It’s baffling how the guy constantly contradicts himself. He can’t keep it straight if he wants challenging hazards/enemies and time limit mechanics or not. As for caves I’m one of the weirdos who really enjoyed them, and the random elements increase replayability. Plus, some of his other issues are just self inflicted problems. I’m definitely biased because Pikmin 2 is my FAVORITE game in the series. But, I’m willing to admit it has its flaws. That being said his video was just bad and only raised a few good points.
It’s not contradicting at all, he explains in the video that he likes challenging games, that are FAIR and CONSISTENT. Pikmin 1, 3, and 4 have differing difficulties that progress in a natural Manner, 2 doesn’t do that well at all. He does point out some flaws in his video in his most recent Pikmin video. But what’s really baffling is how you think his video is bad when most of his points are valid. The only thing that’s bad about the video (that he addressed) was his view on it being a “Departure” of what made Pikmin, Pikmin.
Heres my reason why pikmin 2 is the worst Its not my thing My favourite aspect is time attack and time management You cant exactly time attack a 20 hour game
I will always respect people's opinion on liking Pikmin 2 the most, even though it is my least favorite. The reason is because your favorite gameplay element is going to determine which games you like best. If your favorite aspect is the resource management and battling enemies in Pikmin, then you will like Pikmin 2 the most, because it did this the best. If your favorite aspect is carefully planning out your day in order to be as efficient as possible and finishing the game in as few days as possible, then you will like Pikmin 1 or 3 the most because those games did that better. I am a person who just loves to replay a day over and over again until I perfect my run and get everything done I wanted to. Doing this in Pikmin 2 is a serious grind for me because I have to replay the same 2-3 caves over and over again until I collected everything that I wanted to on the surface in one run. And that surface gameplay where I am madly scrambling to get everything done as efficiently as possible is the gameplay that I find most enjoyable in Pikmin. Caves actively discourage my favorite way to play Pikmin. That doesn't mean that other people can't enjoy them, and it doesn't mean that there aren't still good aspects to them, even for me. I truly do still like Pikmin 2 a lot. But this is why Pikmin 2 is my personal least favorite in the series.
I play Pikmin to veg out after a grueling day's work and have a silly little space man collect shit so I get a vicarious sense of accomplishment. So, naturally, 4 is my favorite.
11:02 Wait, wait... only the middle bullet of a Groink can actually kill Pikmin? Is there any indication of that in the game anywhere, cuz this is the first time I'm hearing of this. If this is true, then... I honestly feel like Schaffrilas kinda has a point here. There should be some actual indication that's how it works in-game, like a piece of dialogue in the Piklopedia, or the middle bullet looking more dangerous than the adjacent two.
the bullet I think is random on what it kills. I think it randomly selects a bullet to become deadly (b/c the game can swap out various status effects from objects so it swaps one of the bullets knockback status effect with the explosion status effect). It's a fair enemy still b/c it's discouraging to be within the Groinks range regardless
I mean boulders randomly kill pimin in 4 (unless there's some obscure condition for them dying), but it only makes a mechanic easier, so people probably don't pay too much mind to it. If only the middle kills, then it's kind of an aoe that stuns the pikmin, having a punishment for being too close but not as brutal as instakilling them. I guess think of it in reverse of the boulder, it could have been that the entire explosion instakills.
5:26 and also the floor he is showing is Snagret Hole Sublevel 2 which takes place after you exit from the bird house, which does make consistent and logical sense since you arent actually in a cave at that point since you literally fell out of a tree (and i am aware of the other above ground sublevels later in the game).
I think he just disliked caves like 2/3rd of the community which is sad since its actually really fun how the caves are designed and the replayability they have. I don't understand why so much hate but that's just how the pikmin crumbles. Btw, it seems you have beef with Pikmin 3 or something lol. Also, your editing is actually getting sick man, continue on this pace👍
Im glad SOMEONE made this video basically taking my exact thoughts on his video and putting them into actual words. While I understand not liking the game and everything it did, I do feel that some are a bit ignorant to the stuff Pikmin 2 was doing and just not really looking further into why stuff is the way it is in that game. It's kinda depressing to me that some people just cant see the thought and effort that went into most design decisions of that game...
To me, the best rebuttal for the caves not having the same time systems or time limit is something I don’t see people talk about in pikmin at all. The urgency of Pikmin 1 begins and end at 30 days and 30 parts. Rationally you just do 1 part per day and you’re at least playing the game fairly and well. In Pikmin 2 the caves offer something different. Where time management skills no longer matter and now it’s about technical levels of skill. I absolutely love Pikmin 2 for being the hardest while fairest game and offering actual threats and spikes in difficulty. Where if the caves didn’t exist the game would just be a Time Trial or Time Attack version of Pikmin 1. Having a game feel more like a video game more than a puzzle is definitely what I want to see more of in Pikmin.
I think that the reason he thinks grinding the doomsday apparatus is time consuming is because he doesn't know you that you can enter sublevels with just your captains and your dismissed pikmin won't be left behind. Based on the background footage he uses, he seems to think that you need to take your pikmin with you, which will cause you to waste time due to fighting enemies.
Slander to the Schaffrilas's Pikmin 2 video is never late to the party. That video is hot explosive garb. I've never heard someone talk about something and being so confident and so unapologetically wrong at the same time
i wanna mention similarly to him grinding the bitter spray, he did the dungeons by baiting the traps and said how that was lame my brother in christ you choose to make the game easy and cheap out the obstacles
Im really impressed with how you make such high quality content weekly for seemingly no revenue, keep the good work One thing id be really interested to see you cover is Pikmin m[cencored]s like collosal caverns and true spice.
Pikmin 2 is not my favorite, but the things I don't like about it are never even mentioned in this video at all. I just personally am not a fan of some of the caves, and think they run a bit long and are just a bit too combat intensive for what I personally want out of a pikmin game. I think a TH-camr who critiques Pikmin 2 in a pretty good way is probably Antdude
Really well made video, loved how you succinctly shut down the baseless criticisms. I've enjoyed schaf for years but his vid actually ruined Pikmin 2 discourse forever. I also love how you touched on cave generation, I hate how people act like it's sloppily put together and totally random, like, no, there's only a handful of generations just to keep repeat playthroughs fresh. Maybe I'm on crack or something but I swear 2 was universally enjoyed back in the day. Like, it's perfectly fine for it to not be your fave but I swear 99% of criticisms boil down to nitpicks or just literal user error. Is Pikmin 2 too hard? then spam purples and sprays. Pikmin 2 doesn't have enough time pressure? Play faster, beat your previous times, nobody took this option from you. Pikmin 2 is one of those games where the experience you have is dependent on how you play. I personally limit my purple pikmin to like, 10 max per squad and use more red pikmin for fighting, I don't even bother with berries since eggs in caves provide you more than enough sprays to have on deck, and hell I hardly even use sprays to begin with because I enjoy fighting enemies and having stakes. Lo and behold I have a complex real time strategy game jam-packed with features and nigh infinite replayability, amazing characters, + 10/10 soundtrack and visuals.
No hate towards Schaf (because I doubt he intended to have this effect) but it really did feel like there was a massive influx of new fans who will shit on Pikmin 2 endlessly and overhype Pikmin 3. Of course there's valid criticisms for both and neither are bad games at all, but it made discourse of the games unnecessarily defensive. Peakmin 2 is my favourite of the series and while I have my own problems with the game (some jank glitches, purples being too op, time limit should've been focused on more, reds being useless, etc), I love it regardless and a good amount of Schaf's points felt like either contradictions or personal nitpicks. Love the content btw!
While I generally disagreed with Schafrillas video, I feel like the point that a lot of the "surprise traps" were needlessly unfun and punishing to players, especailly on a blind playthrough, is a fair point. While I think most of the hazards are handled relatively well things like the falling bomb rocks and enemies, mitites in eggs, enemies burrowing out of rhe ground, etc often have little to no foreshadowing and very few ways to mitigate or remove them, I feel like that alone would be fine, but given how heavily they are used in end-game caves, they quickly become more annoying obstacles that dirsupts the games flow than actual threats.
Very good and measured response. One thing however: You mentioned the caves of Pikmin 4 are usually shorter thanks to time still passing while you are in them, and that it makes it hard to plan your days around. I'd like to counter that the game tells you from the jump that 1/6 of the time passes in caves, so once you know how long a day is you can use a bit of math to set aside time for the caves. Also the caves being short can be a good thing, sometimes the caves in Pikmin 2 can overstay their welcome and feel samey, while in Pikmin 4 the caves are a lot more tightly designed and unique from each other. Definitely still love the caves in Pikmin 2, I just think Pikmin 4 did them a bit better.
I actually never knew the Violet Candypop buds do respawn in Bulblax Kingdom, taught me something new there. I'll have to remember that next time I playthrough 2 again.
I actually agree with Schaff in a lot a places -The end of day monologues added a lot the reflected on what has happened so far, meanwhile the emails are just kind of there for humor that is only affected by not grabbing as much treasure(sure it is still slightly there in the treasure descriptions, but it is not the same with how they aren’t affected by how you were doing like in Pikmin 3/4), -The caves can feel the same due to how long they can be, there aren’t many gimmicks that change it from just taking place above ground, with the few gimmicks either being annoying or not that game changing, sure needing to manage your numbers is a RTS element, but a Pikmin element is trying to manage your losses since not only will that be shown permanently, but it also is a Pikmin staple, so when the game makes it feel like you are forced to lose Pikmin in order for there to be a challenge, it kind of discourages going faster at all which is the main defining trait of Pikmin, so by making it a constant threat of running out of Pikmin, you are just forcing players to take it slower or else all the Pikmin they worked for (mainly purples) will be lost forever -Electricity being instant kill also just nerfs other types to the point where if there is any electricity you have to use yellows, while water and fire enemies have work arounds(plus he said it was easy to spot and plan ahead not that it was fair since everyone who played Pikmin 2 knows how easy it is for types to get mixed when you trying to separate your group into a single type) - Traps are especially bad since the floors they are on basic force you to take it slower or else you will lose all your Pikmin, especially when a lot of them are instakills that can only be easily avoided if you set them off before hand(btw no just because he avoided doesn’t mean they are always fair, especially when they can come back to back, or even strike as soon as you actually start having your Pikmin do stuff, meaning 20% of the caves is just setting off everything in order to ensure they don’t kill your Pikmin thus slowing the game down heavily) -Enemies like the Groink are extremely annoying as hell since they once again instead of allowing you to choose what task you wanna do first, make you drop everything to kill them because once again they will kill way too many Pikmin if you don’t deal with them as soon as possible, it is especially bad with them coming back since the same issue if needing to drop everything to make sure the 2 most dangerous enemies in the game don’t come back for reasons that don’t make sense lore wise, and just serve to slow down progression even more rather than encouraging it -He did not grind multiple days for purple stuff, he just said how it was only one of 2 good solutions to dealing with multiple annoying enemies like Wollyhops, Bulbears, Groinks, huge hard to deal with groups of dwarf bulborbs, fiery Bulblax, the bomb bugs(I know their name I just really don’t wanna look up how to spell it), and Orange Bulborbs, which are all enemies that can be painful to fight without purple or sprays especially depending on their positioning which can make dealing with them way to annoying -it is annoying to grind purples for the wait because although it doesn’t take long it ends up killing the mood when all that is left after a really long and grueling game is something you are forced to back track to grind for, and in case you can’t tell he doesn’t play Pikmin 2 as often as the other games, thus doesn’t know where is the best point to grind purples without guides, even then it takes way too long for something that only exists to pad the run time for completion which most Pikmin fans always do, Pikmin 4 handled it the way 2 should’ve
Okay to be fair, the cave randomness is sometimes an issue because although rarely, sometimes treausures just don't spawn in, though yeah his other points are kinda poopy. As for what I think the weakest game in the series is, I'd say Pikmin 1 is kinda bad compared to the rest of the series, and base Pikmin 3 just feels a bit too empty, despite how much nostalgia I have for that game
I’m sure he prefers Pikmin games that encourages replay ability rather than the marathon that Pikmin 2 is, plus I have to admit although Pikmin 1 and 3 are shorter, 3 has multiple other modes to keep you busy(especially in the deluxe version which he prefers), and both are short enough to where you won’t easily feel fatigue just by replaying them often meaning that Pikmin 2 is the hardest to come back to after playing it recently
i used that subterranean cave method in my first run this year but i’ll need to tap in on the bulblax kingdom one in the future cause the subterranean grind is absurd
I'd argue that the lack of any real time limit in Pikmin 2 (and Pikmin 4 but that's not the subject here) has legitimate problems. The lack of a day limit means that these games have no urgency, sure Pikmin 2 kinda punishes the player for taking a long time, but it's not in an especially meaningful way if their only goal is to beat the game. As such the game does indirectly incentivise the player to farm bitter sprays, they're stupid OP, and there's no downside to doing so. The bigger issue I think though is the lack of time limit in the caves. Outside of the Submerged Castle this incentivises an extremely slow and unfun style of play. Often the safest play for a less experienced player is just to run around punching all the enemies to death as Olimar, which isn't particularly fun, but the game is likely to push new players to it. I think it can be easy to view a game you like though the lens of an experinced player, but many of Pikmin 2's biggest issues are how it inclines first time players into playing in the least fun ways possible, and often validates those unfun descisions. Purple Pikmin being a good example where first time players often barely even use them due to scarcity which is validated by the existence of the Doomsday Apparatus later on.
Great video as always! Do you not like pikmin 4 much though? I’ve always said 4 and 2 are pretty much tied as the best pikmin game, although 4 may just edge it! Looking forward to the next pikmin vid champ!
11:46 me when i see people complaining about how they can insta-kill an Emperor bulblax with a single lightning shock max Oatchi rush spicy spray 100 Ice pikmin freeze in Pikmin 4:
as a lil commie that loves capitalism critique as much as the next person, that point is so weird lol I personally love how pikmin 2 manages to sneak in this specific piece of commentary, it's more than enough for FUCKIN PIKMIN LMAO if you want nintendo sponsored anti-capitalist media go play mother 3, that game is a masterpiece
One time in the ShowerRoom the randomizer was very unforgiving to me because the sardine treasure actually gets stuck on that top ledge and it’s impossible for it to get down from there (I waited 10 minutes) I had to reset 5 times for it to be in a different spot I thing it’s kinda ridiculous that the game had that possibility of a treasure actually getting stuck and incapable of getting because of the RNG if it wasn’t for the fact that it could spawn there and I could reset the spawns Also the Gatling Grionk Shots ARE completely random I remember all my Pikmin got shot by the bullets and 0 of them died so that’s just pretty ridiculous on how it works like that But that’s my only triggering points in Pikmin 2, and No the DoomsDay Apparatus was not annoying to get grinding Pikmin for me isn’t/wasn’t tiring at all And honestly I think people overreact on how caves destroy your Pikmin a lot when you literally have infinite amounts of days to regrow your Pikmin which I think why they gave you infinite days in the first place (also beacsue there’s no threat limit in pikmin 2 like 1)
Pikmin 3 *removed* cynical and depressing themes? the lose-state is the protagonists slowly starving to death along with their entire race going extinct, Olimar survives his lose-state at least so if anything Pikmin 3 is darker
Pikmin 2 is hard and may seem unfair sometimes but I prefer it this way rather than a piss easy game (3-4) and a short and tough game due to both it’s jankiness and it’s balance while also not having that many hard bosses (1). Pikmin 2 is the one I enjoyed the most overall and I find that not enough credit I given to it. (Sorry for the approximate English)
11:49 I recently revisited pikmin 2 after roughly a decade or so since last playing it, and I 100% completed the game in like 29 days, of which was a fairly average time so the time management is still really there if you want to hold yourself to the 30 day standard, just delete your save if you get to day 31 if you really want. And for that matter, don't like the restart sublevel mechanic? DON'T USE IT LIKE I DIDN'T. Also submerged castle is the second best cave, dream den goes harder imo as its the only actually difficult cave, being the only one i didnt 100% first try.
Schafrillas' video is flawed, but I would say that a first time playthrough of Pikmin 2 can be rough, mainly in the late game. It really throws a lot at the player, and a newbie wouldn't be able to save most of their Pikmin without having to restart. Despite this, we still enjoy and love Pikmin 2? Why is this? A TH-camr named ExoParadigmGamer has a theory he calls "the Sega Learning Curve". To quote him, "Many of Sega's games include strange mechanics, awkward controls, or other off-putting design choices that can hamper a first-time player's enjoyment. On the other hand, repeat players will find games with lots of depth through advanced movement techniques. The Sega Learning Curve isn't an excuse for games that get better when you know what you're doing, but rather an acknowledgement that we enjoy certain games because we've played them enough to work around their flaws, and we're not wrong for liking them in spite." Yes, I love Pikmin 2 greatly. But even I remember how frustrated I was when it decided to throw a bunch of enemies and bomb rocks at me at once. But I played it so often, I can work around it and enjoy it.
I got accustomed to the game pretty quickly on my first playthrough, but I've also watched plenty of playthroughs beforehand. Another thing about the game's traps is that most of them are easily reactable and you'd only get "tricked" if you're not paying attention and play sloppily. In a lot of older games you actually had to look at the screen, which is something that streamers and younger players aren't accustomed to.
My two cents: I personally prefer Pikmin 1 due to the lack of change, making for a planning aspect more similar to Majora's Mask. I put the other pikmin games above 2 because that is the sort of style I personally like. I like the speedrunner "gotta go fast" energy and optimization over the "adapt to the big changes" optimization Pikmin 2 is based around. I also did not like some of the BS elements of Pikmin 2 specifically, mostly due to them occurring non-stop in the later dungeons. I feel like Pikmin 4 did this part better by how rare they were. Like, that empress bulblax in a small space with geysers came out of nowhere and I appreciated it more due to that. I feel like I would like pikmin 2 better if some of those elements were much more rare, as it would be playing into paranoia rather than "oh, here comes another rock trap". It, ironically, adds a predictability that it is coming rather than the unpredictable idea it was originally supposed to be. I can see where others can find comfort in this, but I just do not like it personally. I'll give it to you that some of his points are past the threshold of the absurdity expected from a video of this sort. I agree with your points of Olimar's thoughts in the piklopedeia vs the mail system. I disagree with the point of holding over emotions from the last game of getting olimar to see his family. It really would have been better if Olimar was shown seeing his family, then struggling with having to go back after last time. Though, that's just a criticism I have with the story and not the point made. I also agree that there are some good caves and areas, but at this point, I am more likely to go back to Pikmin 4 over Pikmin 2. It just hit the ideas I liked about Pikmin 2 better without some of the big complaints I have. I guess I appreciate that others can have a fondness for a game i personally did not like as much more than the game itself, but that's bound to happen. There isnt a single game without flaws, it just matters what you personally put more or less weight on in your mind based on your likes and dislikes.
Pikmin 2 is my least favorite Pikmin game for a variety of reasons, but I will admit you brought up really good points and did a far better job responding to Schafrillas's video than others. I don't really have much to criticize cause everything you said was fair.
since I'm a hater, I crown this as the ruler of counter videos to schaff's pikmin 2 video hater of what you may ask? Hater of how nice, clean, and *short* this is, not being stretched to nearly an hour so that you'd cramp it into your searchbar and nod alond as you do something else, and with a script that sounds like an actual script and not one of those live dissections as someone watches a video (and due to such a script doesn't come off as so emotionally charged *cough cough*) in general alot of these vids have me actually watching them in intrigue, so good job on that too man
Good video also uh doesn't one of the pikmin games along with the caves i dunno explain that how Earth is i dunno so messed up to the point that time and stuff is a bit strange so like time difference and the daylight in the caves would make sense
Considering the other stuff I’ve seen from him. This isn’t the first wild take he had, and it won’t be the last. The capitalism part sounded like complete projection lmao.
While i see where schafs comeing from its not hard to see why alot of ppl have been play pikmin 2 for the first time and coming back with scars and all the pikmin community says is DaNdoRi Isu stut up
I'm a pretty big fan of Schaf but I think this is def one of his worst videos. It's the kinda video where I think maybe having discussed the game with other pikmin fans could've helped the video out a lot
if i’ve taken away anything from this video it’s that the waterwraith should be implemented into every rts game
I don’t know where you got that idea but a mechanic like that can really work in many different rts games
"The siege of Moscow was halted when the Red Army deployed the Water Wraith again"
The real reason you shouldn’t invade Russia in the winter is because they’ll send out the Waterwraith
Dimensional creatures know no bounds
@@LinkhoodIf you take longer than 5 days to siege Leningrad, the Waterwraith will appear and flatten all your food, making it inedible
38 year old childrens cartoon reviewer DESTROYED by advanced pikmin connoisseur
um akshually, 25 🤓
@@yololthepikminenjoyercan't blame him for assuming tho given the territory
adults arguing online about children's media
Pikmin 2 speedrunning is more dynamic with the RNG. It's not so random that there's no skill involved or combinations so bad that they're truly impossible. Pikmin 1 and 3 are the same every time and with 10-20 years of strategy, you can have 1 optimal route and not nearly as much real-time strategizing
I'm gonna have to disagree with this specifically due to your use of "speedrunning." Pikmin 2 feels like the worst to speedrun because the time one gets is dependent largely on dungeon layout. So its impossible to truly compare playthrough times because each playthrough and what needed to be done to complete them varies.
@@Chilly_M04 people speedrun rougelikes all the time, and thats the most random genre there is yet its still super competitive. Sure, you're run can be better or worse depending on layouts and spawns, but most seeds are gonna come with good and bad so pretty much everyones gonna have to deal with it. Also speed running games with random elements like this is a unique form of challenge since speed running it is more about problem solving in real time than just memorizing every layout and exactly what to do where. The level layouts are consistent enough to know what you're generally gonna have to deal with on repeat runs. My favorite example of this is spelunky speed runs, so id recommend giving that a look into.
dude is literally playing better than me and saying "everything is impossible to avoid"
wants the game to go into the horrors of capitalism
then calls the story and premise already too depressing and cynical
what??
I've never been the biggest fan of the Doomsday Apparatus, and while it doesn't take long to grind for and obtain in the grand scheme of things, I think there's a much deeper discussion than "it takes 20 minutes to get." My personal issue with it is more about how much of a pace breaker it is. The Pikmin games are amazing examples of games designed for 100% completion, and it's the single blemish to this idea in the series, requiring you to go back into a cave and grind - even if you never lose a single Purple.
how do you feel about the gold bar in pikmin 4?
@@dorf7219have you heard of the purple onion
The purple onion makes it significantly better by itself, as for a first 100% playthrough, you get a way to mass obtain Purple Pikmin via new and unique gameplay, but there's still issues that come from repeat playthroughs. Spending, like, 2 hours doing the side content or 10 minutes constantly entering and leaving a cave is still a pace breaker, but by that point Pikmin 4's loading times are already putting in the work lol@@dorf7219
@@volvoman5262 yes, but you have to get to the end of a pretty challenging gauntlet. Its a very missable thing too, i didnt play sage trials until after i beat most the other content. just i didnt know they had the other onions in them. i ended up just farming violet candy pop buds pikmin 2 style
@@dorf7219 so dandori issue + you can fast travel to any sublevel in cave like ingolufed castle
One thing about Pikmin 2 I like is that it makes losing Pikmin more detrimental. In Pikmin 1, 3, and for the most part 4 All pikmin are easily replaceable. But in Pikmin 2 losing a white or purple is not an easy replacement which forces you to be careful when using them.
Even with other colors in caves you gotta be careful to not lose too many so that you’ll have enough pikmin to do everything the game requires you to do.
For example losing 30 reds in Pikmin 1 to a wolly wog means nothing except another trip to the onion to get more at worst. Losing 30 reds in a cave in Pikmin 2 might mean having to reset.
personally i'm not a fan of that. i don't like knowing if i mess up it's a reset, i want there to be *some* way to recover.
I love getting my day count as low as possible in Pikmin 1, but I feel like people gas up the limited number of days. I never ran out of time even as a kid, and from what other people have told me, neither have they.
I always preferred resource management to time management, as it adds far more variety and replayability to a game, seeing most of the newer community shit on the game breaks my heart
That hint on the community tab was clever lol
To be fair, I feel the point about purples and the Doomsday Apparatus are fair ones against Pikmin 2. It's the only times in the game where need their carrying buff is required aside from needing only one, with the only other exception being the paper bag early in Awakening Wood if memory serves me right.
Either way, it leads to the single thing dissuading you from having purples steamrolling so much of the game being that you need to have 100 of them to complete the game, you aren't gonna know that in your first playthrough either. I wouldn't blame anyone for unlocking Wistful Wild, seeing the treasure and thinking "how was I supposed to know I needed 100 purples?"
Keep in mind we play these games a lot, so we know that the treasure exists, where violet candypop buds are to help grind their numbers and how to abuse their powers while keeping them safe, but in the perspective of someone playing for the first time, it'd probably be extremely frustrating, since you'd probably have to both grind way more and not even know where to start.
I love Pikmin 2, it was my favorite in the series before 4 just barely took that title, and it's still one of my favorites of all time, but I feel stating the Doomsday Apparatus is a minor inconvenience at most is pretty disingenuous.
Not to try to talk shit or anything, I agree with a ton of the points you made in 2's favor, just try to keep in mind how many times you opt out of using purples in combat the next time you play. Almost every time I did from my experience, it was because I knew I needed 100 purples.
2 is still my fav. Its great but dose have problems
To be fair, EVERYONE who played pikmin 2 wanted to field an army of 100 purples at least once. I'd say the flaw is the candypop buds, not the purple pikmin requirement.
@@Centinym yes i agree if they were more common the tressure would be alot better
Ah... I always forget Schafrillas was part of the "random generation means 0 design" garbage.
It's such a dumb argument, and I really want to explain why it's wrong one day.
Wow. This made me realise how flawed Mr. Schafrillas’ arguments are. That video should really become… lost media. Or be revisited.
I love how even Schaffrillas disagrees with his video, really speaks words
I honestly think that the frequent use of powerful insta-kill hazards in pikmin 2 is excellent and future games should consider the idea. Let's take the example of fire vs electricity in pikmin 2.
With fire, you can just hold B and it's irrelevant. It's just a minor inconvenience, and you only really want to bring like 5 reds to clear out a couple geysers due to their immunity to the hazard being irrelevant.
But with electricity, you can still clear out anode beetles and the electrical current wire thingy with purples, but it's incredibly risky. It makes you actually want to use yellows in order to assist you in clearing out hazard.
i dont even clear out fire geysers with reds i just clear them by swarming em with my whole squad, way faster and practically riskless
I appreciate how this video actually both brings up scaffs inconsistency’s without being inconsistent itself. While I personally find Pikmin 2 the least enjoyable game in the series, I have been finding more flaws with a Scaffs video overtime (I think a lot of his worst arguments come down to not fully exploring why he doesn’t like certain elements) and it’s good to have a video that shows those flaws properly without attacking his character.
When I first saw Schafrillas' video over Pikmin 2, I just kind of agreed with him, and accepted that these things just didn't bother me, but after this video, I'm starting to realize how biased his video actually is, and how much it gets wrong. You make incredible points in this video, and I'm glad I found it.
Ok so on the capitalism thing, I feel you are underestimating the capability of kids to understand complexity in stories. And either way, some folks in an audience not understanding something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be in a story, at least in my opinion
Counter point: it does go into it, it is just more interested in telling a story than explaining a "message". You get to see Olimar get screwed over, he loses his ship and the heirloom he brought back for his son, he is sent back to a dangerous planet while his boss has to hide from loan sharks, he has to spend time away from his family. THEN when his mission is over he has to go back with his boss to find his coworker (constantly side tracked by treasure hunting) - while his wife manages to lose their fortune due to greed. And by the end you learn that louie was the cause of all these troubles - all caused by his greed and gluttony. Even the final boss is his fault as he was so intent on staying on the planet despite his grandmother's missing the boy.
So the entire story is a cautionary tale about greed in all its forms. Even the gameplay shows this as greed is how you'll lose pikmin more often than not. Be it due to a trap, or mismanaging your time, or even placing your company's future in a shipment of golden pikpik carrots.
"If I had more time, I'd have written a shorter letter". Sometimes just telling a story and trusting the audience to get the loose meaning is preferential to an exhaustive and dreary deconstruction.
@@Centinym Yeah honestly, good point. I wish it was highlighted slightly more, but if you look into it its fairly scathing
It’s baffling how the guy constantly contradicts himself. He can’t keep it straight if he wants challenging hazards/enemies and time limit mechanics or not. As for caves I’m one of the weirdos who really enjoyed them, and the random elements increase replayability. Plus, some of his other issues are just self inflicted problems. I’m definitely biased because Pikmin 2 is my FAVORITE game in the series. But, I’m willing to admit it has its flaws. That being said his video was just bad and only raised a few good points.
It’s not contradicting at all, he explains in the video that he likes challenging games, that are FAIR and CONSISTENT. Pikmin 1, 3, and 4 have differing difficulties that progress in a natural Manner, 2 doesn’t do that well at all.
He does point out some flaws in his video in his most recent Pikmin video. But what’s really baffling is how you think his video is bad when most of his points are valid. The only thing that’s bad about the video (that he addressed) was his view on it being a “Departure” of what made Pikmin, Pikmin.
@@We_Have_Dragons how much you get paid to ride like that
@@ultimate8125 If you’re gonna get upset at a TH-cam comment, come up with a better insult. Grow up lil bro. Thank you in advance.
Imagine being a lobster who hates pikmin 2 for the wrong reasons
This way batter defence than hiding in private did
Heres my reason why pikmin 2 is the worst
Its not my thing
My favourite aspect is time attack and time management
You cant exactly time attack a 20 hour game
I will always respect people's opinion on liking Pikmin 2 the most, even though it is my least favorite. The reason is because your favorite gameplay element is going to determine which games you like best. If your favorite aspect is the resource management and battling enemies in Pikmin, then you will like Pikmin 2 the most, because it did this the best. If your favorite aspect is carefully planning out your day in order to be as efficient as possible and finishing the game in as few days as possible, then you will like Pikmin 1 or 3 the most because those games did that better. I am a person who just loves to replay a day over and over again until I perfect my run and get everything done I wanted to. Doing this in Pikmin 2 is a serious grind for me because I have to replay the same 2-3 caves over and over again until I collected everything that I wanted to on the surface in one run. And that surface gameplay where I am madly scrambling to get everything done as efficiently as possible is the gameplay that I find most enjoyable in Pikmin. Caves actively discourage my favorite way to play Pikmin. That doesn't mean that other people can't enjoy them, and it doesn't mean that there aren't still good aspects to them, even for me. I truly do still like Pikmin 2 a lot. But this is why Pikmin 2 is my personal least favorite in the series.
I play Pikmin to veg out after a grueling day's work and have a silly little space man collect shit so I get a vicarious sense of accomplishment.
So, naturally, 4 is my favorite.
11:02 Wait, wait... only the middle bullet of a Groink can actually kill Pikmin? Is there any indication of that in the game anywhere, cuz this is the first time I'm hearing of this. If this is true, then... I honestly feel like Schaffrilas kinda has a point here. There should be some actual indication that's how it works in-game, like a piece of dialogue in the Piklopedia, or the middle bullet looking more dangerous than the adjacent two.
It is true. Although as a kid I always thought it was a random bullet
the bullet I think is random on what it kills. I think it randomly selects a bullet to become deadly (b/c the game can swap out various status effects from objects so it swaps one of the bullets knockback status effect with the explosion status effect). It's a fair enemy still b/c it's discouraging to be within the Groinks range regardless
I mean boulders randomly kill pimin in 4 (unless there's some obscure condition for them dying), but it only makes a mechanic easier, so people probably don't pay too much mind to it. If only the middle kills, then it's kind of an aoe that stuns the pikmin, having a punishment for being too close but not as brutal as instakilling them. I guess think of it in reverse of the boulder, it could have been that the entire explosion instakills.
Well gatling groink is the worst enemy fkr a reason.
No the bullets are random
getting jumpscared by those super origami kingdom made me spit out my drink, good job
5:26 and also the floor he is showing is Snagret Hole Sublevel 2 which takes place after you exit from the bird house, which does make consistent and logical sense since you arent actually in a cave at that point since you literally fell out of a tree (and i am aware of the other above ground sublevels later in the game).
I think he just disliked caves like 2/3rd of the community which is sad since its actually really fun how the caves are designed and the replayability they have. I don't understand why so much hate but that's just how the pikmin crumbles. Btw, it seems you have beef with Pikmin 3 or something lol. Also, your editing is actually getting sick man, continue on this pace👍
Im glad SOMEONE made this video basically taking my exact thoughts on his video and putting them into actual words. While I understand not liking the game and everything it did, I do feel that some are a bit ignorant to the stuff Pikmin 2 was doing and just not really looking further into why stuff is the way it is in that game. It's kinda depressing to me that some people just cant see the thought and effort that went into most design decisions of that game...
To me, the best rebuttal for the caves not having the same time systems or time limit is something I don’t see people talk about in pikmin at all. The urgency of Pikmin 1 begins and end at 30 days and 30 parts. Rationally you just do 1 part per day and you’re at least playing the game fairly and well. In Pikmin 2 the caves offer something different. Where time management skills no longer matter and now it’s about technical levels of skill. I absolutely love Pikmin 2 for being the hardest while fairest game and offering actual threats and spikes in difficulty. Where if the caves didn’t exist the game would just be a Time Trial or Time Attack version of Pikmin 1. Having a game feel more like a video game more than a puzzle is definitely what I want to see more of in Pikmin.
You bring up the background footage a lot you gotta remember that he has editors and he probably doesn’t find the footage himself
lol its like the editor disagreed with his statements and chose footage to contradict it. XD
I think that the reason he thinks grinding the doomsday apparatus is time consuming is because he doesn't know you that you can enter sublevels with just your captains and your dismissed pikmin won't be left behind. Based on the background footage he uses, he seems to think that you need to take your pikmin with you, which will cause you to waste time due to fighting enemies.
That makes sense
Oh i didnt know that
Slander to the Schaffrilas's Pikmin 2 video is never late to the party. That video is hot explosive garb. I've never heard someone talk about something and being so confident and so unapologetically wrong at the same time
9:05 snitchbug bolted out of there
so glad you made this! I remember being in a call with you and you were debating this, glad you decided to do it.
i wanna mention similarly to him grinding the bitter spray, he did the dungeons by baiting the traps and said how that was lame
my brother in christ
you choose to make the game easy and cheap out the obstacles
Treasure Hunting is still a good enough motivation for me in a video game as far as story goes.
Im really impressed with how you make such high quality content weekly for seemingly no revenue, keep the good work
One thing id be really interested to see you cover is Pikmin m[cencored]s like collosal caverns and true spice.
Pikmin 2 is not my favorite, but the things I don't like about it are never even mentioned in this video at all. I just personally am not a fan of some of the caves, and think they run a bit long and are just a bit too combat intensive for what I personally want out of a pikmin game. I think a TH-camr who critiques Pikmin 2 in a pretty good way is probably Antdude
6:25 To be fair time significantly slows down, and one main problem with Pikmin 2, in my opinion, was that caves could go on for longer than needed to
Really well made video, loved how you succinctly shut down the baseless criticisms. I've enjoyed schaf for years but his vid actually ruined Pikmin 2 discourse forever. I also love how you touched on cave generation, I hate how people act like it's sloppily put together and totally random, like, no, there's only a handful of generations just to keep repeat playthroughs fresh.
Maybe I'm on crack or something but I swear 2 was universally enjoyed back in the day. Like, it's perfectly fine for it to not be your fave but I swear 99% of criticisms boil down to nitpicks or just literal user error. Is Pikmin 2 too hard? then spam purples and sprays. Pikmin 2 doesn't have enough time pressure? Play faster, beat your previous times, nobody took this option from you.
Pikmin 2 is one of those games where the experience you have is dependent on how you play. I personally limit my purple pikmin to like, 10 max per squad and use more red pikmin for fighting, I don't even bother with berries since eggs in caves provide you more than enough sprays to have on deck, and hell I hardly even use sprays to begin with because I enjoy fighting enemies and having stakes. Lo and behold I have a complex real time strategy game jam-packed with features and nigh infinite replayability, amazing characters, + 10/10 soundtrack and visuals.
No hate towards Schaf (because I doubt he intended to have this effect) but it really did feel like there was a massive influx of new fans who will shit on Pikmin 2 endlessly and overhype Pikmin 3. Of course there's valid criticisms for both and neither are bad games at all, but it made discourse of the games unnecessarily defensive.
Peakmin 2 is my favourite of the series and while I have my own problems with the game (some jank glitches, purples being too op, time limit should've been focused on more, reds being useless, etc), I love it regardless and a good amount of Schaf's points felt like either contradictions or personal nitpicks.
Love the content btw!
While I generally disagreed with Schafrillas video, I feel like the point that a lot of the "surprise traps" were needlessly unfun and punishing to players, especailly on a blind playthrough, is a fair point. While I think most of the hazards are handled relatively well things like the falling bomb rocks and enemies, mitites in eggs, enemies burrowing out of rhe ground, etc often have little to no foreshadowing and very few ways to mitigate or remove them, I feel like that alone would be fine, but given how heavily they are used in end-game caves, they quickly become more annoying obstacles that dirsupts the games flow than actual threats.
every time i realize im watching a schafrilla video i click off
Very good and measured response. One thing however:
You mentioned the caves of Pikmin 4 are usually shorter thanks to time still passing while you are in them, and that it makes it hard to plan your days around. I'd like to counter that the game tells you from the jump that 1/6 of the time passes in caves, so once you know how long a day is you can use a bit of math to set aside time for the caves.
Also the caves being short can be a good thing, sometimes the caves in Pikmin 2 can overstay their welcome and feel samey, while in Pikmin 4 the caves are a lot more tightly designed and unique from each other.
Definitely still love the caves in Pikmin 2, I just think Pikmin 4 did them a bit better.
NEW VIDEO YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i LOVE your videos! they always make my day
Personally I prefer Pikmin 2 the bad ending continues
That would Just be pikmin 4
Love the colossal caverns backround footage in some of your vids!
I actually never knew the Violet Candypop buds do respawn in Bulblax Kingdom, taught me something new there.
I'll have to remember that next time I playthrough 2 again.
A lot of people forget he said that it wasnt a bad game but it wasnt for him
I actually agree with Schaff in a lot a places
-The end of day monologues added a lot the reflected on what has happened so far, meanwhile the emails are just kind of there for humor that is only affected by not grabbing as much treasure(sure it is still slightly there in the treasure descriptions, but it is not the same with how they aren’t affected by how you were doing like in Pikmin 3/4),
-The caves can feel the same due to how long they can be, there aren’t many gimmicks that change it from just taking place above ground, with the few gimmicks either being annoying or not that game changing, sure needing to manage your numbers is a RTS element, but a Pikmin element is trying to manage your losses since not only will that be shown permanently, but it also is a Pikmin staple, so when the game makes it feel like you are forced to lose Pikmin in order for there to be a challenge, it kind of discourages going faster at all which is the main defining trait of
Pikmin, so by making it a constant threat of running out of Pikmin, you are just forcing players to take it slower or else all the Pikmin they worked for (mainly purples) will be lost forever
-Electricity being instant kill also just nerfs other types to the point where if there is any electricity you have to use yellows, while water and fire enemies have work arounds(plus he said it was easy to spot and plan ahead not that it was fair since everyone who played Pikmin 2 knows how easy it is for types to get mixed when you trying to separate your group into a single type)
- Traps are especially bad since the floors they are on basic force you to take it slower or else you will lose all your Pikmin, especially when a lot of them are instakills that can only be easily avoided if you set them off before hand(btw no just because he avoided doesn’t mean they are always fair, especially when they can come back to back, or even strike as soon as you actually start having your Pikmin do stuff, meaning 20% of the caves is just setting off everything in order to ensure they don’t kill your Pikmin thus slowing the game down heavily)
-Enemies like the Groink are extremely annoying as hell since they once again instead of allowing you to choose what task you wanna do first, make you drop everything to kill them because once again they will kill way too many Pikmin if you don’t deal with them as soon as possible, it is especially bad with them coming back since the same issue if needing to drop everything to make sure the 2 most dangerous enemies in the game don’t come back for reasons that don’t make sense lore wise, and just serve to slow down progression even more rather than encouraging it
-He did not grind multiple days for purple stuff, he just said how it was only one of 2 good solutions to dealing with multiple annoying enemies like Wollyhops, Bulbears, Groinks, huge hard to deal with groups of dwarf bulborbs, fiery Bulblax, the bomb bugs(I know their name I just really don’t wanna look up how to spell it), and Orange Bulborbs, which are all enemies that can be painful to fight without purple or sprays especially depending on their positioning which can make dealing with them way to annoying
-it is annoying to grind purples for the wait because although it doesn’t take long it ends up killing the mood when all that is left after a really long and grueling game is something you are forced to back track to grind for, and in case you can’t tell he doesn’t play Pikmin 2 as often as the other games, thus doesn’t know where is the best point to grind purples without guides, even then it takes way too long for something that only exists to pad the run time for completion which most Pikmin fans always do, Pikmin 4 handled it the way 2 should’ve
Okay to be fair, the cave randomness is sometimes an issue because although rarely, sometimes treausures just don't spawn in, though yeah his other points are kinda poopy. As for what I think the weakest game in the series is, I'd say Pikmin 1 is kinda bad compared to the rest of the series, and base Pikmin 3 just feels a bit too empty, despite how much nostalgia I have for that game
I’m sure he prefers Pikmin games that encourages replay ability rather than the marathon that Pikmin 2 is, plus I have to admit although Pikmin 1 and 3 are shorter, 3 has multiple other modes to keep you busy(especially in the deluxe version which he prefers), and both are short enough to where you won’t easily feel fatigue just by replaying them often meaning that Pikmin 2 is the hardest to come back to after playing it recently
why does this grown man sound personally insulted by pikmin 2 as if it told him it didnt care about his mother dying
Is the gameplay shown the colossal caverns?
Yes
@@imonlyhereforpikmin No
i used that subterranean cave method in my first run this year but i’ll need to tap in on the bulblax kingdom one in the future cause the subterranean grind is absurd
10:30 Banjo Kazooie music goes kinda hard with the cave gameplay in the background
6:34 yeah, pikmin 2s caves ARE WAY too long, they go up to 15 SUBLEVELS that is actually outrageous
Sometimes just vibing allows world building to flourish. It's the most controversial but it adds the most new content in any of the games.
I'd argue that the lack of any real time limit in Pikmin 2 (and Pikmin 4 but that's not the subject here) has legitimate problems. The lack of a day limit means that these games have no urgency, sure Pikmin 2 kinda punishes the player for taking a long time, but it's not in an especially meaningful way if their only goal is to beat the game. As such the game does indirectly incentivise the player to farm bitter sprays, they're stupid OP, and there's no downside to doing so.
The bigger issue I think though is the lack of time limit in the caves. Outside of the Submerged Castle this incentivises an extremely slow and unfun style of play. Often the safest play for a less experienced player is just to run around punching all the enemies to death as Olimar, which isn't particularly fun, but the game is likely to push new players to it.
I think it can be easy to view a game you like though the lens of an experinced player, but many of Pikmin 2's biggest issues are how it inclines first time players into playing in the least fun ways possible, and often validates those unfun descisions. Purple Pikmin being a good example where first time players often barely even use them due to scarcity which is validated by the existence of the Doomsday Apparatus later on.
pikmin 3 has no urgency either, the game is way too generous. only Pikmin 1 achieve this
@@pikminologueraisin2139 still batter
Holy shit Tamatoagaminggod jumpscare!
Where are the sexy pikmin bosses I was promised?
Pikmin 3 does have a hard day limit. It's 100. There only enough juice to last 100 days
Great video as always! Do you not like pikmin 4 much though? I’ve always said 4 and 2 are pretty much tied as the best pikmin game, although 4 may just edge it! Looking forward to the next pikmin vid champ!
I loved Pikmin 4 and it's my second favourite Pikmin game but I had a few issues with it that I didn't have with Pikmin 2
11:46 me when i see people complaining about how they can insta-kill an Emperor bulblax with a single lightning shock max Oatchi rush spicy spray 100 Ice pikmin freeze in Pikmin 4:
Cool video but recently I’ve been playing hearts of iron IV as Germany, when does the water wraith show up?
Just found out I should no longer play pikmin games because I found pikmin 1 time limit stressful. It's a sad day to be an ex-pikmin fan 😔
I find it silly that he compares Pikmin 2's day system to Pikmin 3, as if Pikmin 3 wasn't a SEQUEL that improved off of the flaw of the one before.
well, to be fair, he does acknowledge that, he just reviews these games as their separate entities
This and the new scruffy pikmin 2 music video on the same day? LETS GOOO!!!
RTS games aren't about time management. They're about resource management.
as a lil commie that loves capitalism critique as much as the next person, that point is so weird lol I personally love how pikmin 2 manages to sneak in this specific piece of commentary, it's more than enough for FUCKIN PIKMIN LMAO
if you want nintendo sponsored anti-capitalist media go play mother 3, that game is a masterpiece
This is truly a Cocoa Puffs moment
ngl I refuse to watch his videos because the cadence of his voice is worse than death
The video where the title is about Pikmin 2 is only enjoyed by pikmin haters is much worse than Matt Damon's video.
I just realized they're playing as a drink cup
One time in the ShowerRoom the randomizer was very unforgiving to me because the sardine treasure actually gets stuck on that top ledge and it’s impossible for it to get down from there (I waited 10 minutes) I had to reset 5 times for it to be in a different spot I thing it’s kinda ridiculous that the game had that possibility of a treasure actually getting stuck and incapable of getting because of the RNG if it wasn’t for the fact that it could spawn there and I could reset the spawns
Also the Gatling Grionk Shots ARE completely random I remember all my Pikmin got shot by the bullets and 0 of them died so that’s just pretty ridiculous on how it works like that
But that’s my only triggering points in Pikmin 2, and No the DoomsDay Apparatus was not annoying to get grinding Pikmin for me isn’t/wasn’t tiring at all
And honestly I think people overreact on how caves destroy your Pikmin a lot when you literally have infinite amounts of days to regrow your Pikmin which I think why they gave you infinite days in the first place (also beacsue there’s no threat limit in pikmin 2 like 1)
Pikmin 3 *removed* cynical and depressing themes? the lose-state is the protagonists slowly starving to death along with their entire race going extinct, Olimar survives his lose-state at least so if anything Pikmin 3 is darker
What is the song at 0:48 ?
Pikmin 2 is hard and may seem unfair sometimes but I prefer it this way rather than a piss easy game (3-4) and a short and tough game due to both it’s jankiness and it’s balance while also not having that many hard bosses (1). Pikmin 2 is the one I enjoyed the most overall and I find that not enough credit I given to it. (Sorry for the approximate English)
Whats the mod on the gameplay?
11:49 I recently revisited pikmin 2 after roughly a decade or so since last playing it, and I 100% completed the game in like 29 days, of which was a fairly average time so the time management is still really there if you want to hold yourself to the 30 day standard, just delete your save if you get to day 31 if you really want.
And for that matter, don't like the restart sublevel mechanic? DON'T USE IT LIKE I DIDN'T.
Also submerged castle is the second best cave, dream den goes harder imo as its the only actually difficult cave, being the only one i didnt 100% first try.
I trained Runecrafting in 07scape and bred at least 50 competitive mons for an Unbound challenge run, 100 Purples is *nothing*
Schafrillas' video is flawed, but I would say that a first time playthrough of Pikmin 2 can be rough, mainly in the late game. It really throws a lot at the player, and a newbie wouldn't be able to save most of their Pikmin without having to restart.
Despite this, we still enjoy and love Pikmin 2? Why is this? A TH-camr named ExoParadigmGamer has a theory he calls "the Sega Learning Curve". To quote him,
"Many of Sega's games include strange mechanics, awkward controls, or other off-putting design choices that can hamper a first-time player's enjoyment. On the other hand, repeat players will find games with lots of depth through advanced movement techniques. The Sega Learning Curve isn't an excuse for games that get better when you know what you're doing, but rather an acknowledgement that we enjoy certain games because we've played them enough to work around their flaws, and we're not wrong for liking them in spite."
Yes, I love Pikmin 2 greatly. But even I remember how frustrated I was when it decided to throw a bunch of enemies and bomb rocks at me at once. But I played it so often, I can work around it and enjoy it.
I got accustomed to the game pretty quickly on my first playthrough, but I've also watched plenty of playthroughs beforehand. Another thing about the game's traps is that most of them are easily reactable and you'd only get "tricked" if you're not paying attention and play sloppily. In a lot of older games you actually had to look at the screen, which is something that streamers and younger players aren't accustomed to.
My two cents: I personally prefer Pikmin 1 due to the lack of change, making for a planning aspect more similar to Majora's Mask. I put the other pikmin games above 2 because that is the sort of style I personally like. I like the speedrunner "gotta go fast" energy and optimization over the "adapt to the big changes" optimization Pikmin 2 is based around.
I also did not like some of the BS elements of Pikmin 2 specifically, mostly due to them occurring non-stop in the later dungeons. I feel like Pikmin 4 did this part better by how rare they were. Like, that empress bulblax in a small space with geysers came out of nowhere and I appreciated it more due to that. I feel like I would like pikmin 2 better if some of those elements were much more rare, as it would be playing into paranoia rather than "oh, here comes another rock trap". It, ironically, adds a predictability that it is coming rather than the unpredictable idea it was originally supposed to be. I can see where others can find comfort in this, but I just do not like it personally.
I'll give it to you that some of his points are past the threshold of the absurdity expected from a video of this sort. I agree with your points of Olimar's thoughts in the piklopedeia vs the mail system. I disagree with the point of holding over emotions from the last game of getting olimar to see his family. It really would have been better if Olimar was shown seeing his family, then struggling with having to go back after last time. Though, that's just a criticism I have with the story and not the point made.
I also agree that there are some good caves and areas, but at this point, I am more likely to go back to Pikmin 4 over Pikmin 2. It just hit the ideas I liked about Pikmin 2 better without some of the big complaints I have. I guess I appreciate that others can have a fondness for a game i personally did not like as much more than the game itself, but that's bound to happen. There isnt a single game without flaws, it just matters what you personally put more or less weight on in your mind based on your likes and dislikes.
Pikmin 2 is my least favorite Pikmin game for a variety of reasons, but I will admit you brought up really good points and did a far better job responding to Schafrillas's video than others. I don't really have much to criticize cause everything you said was fair.
The TamatoaGamingDA joke was exsquisite
since I'm a hater, I crown this as the ruler of counter videos to schaff's pikmin 2 video
hater of what you may ask? Hater of how nice, clean, and *short* this is, not being stretched to nearly an hour so that you'd cramp it into your searchbar and nod alond as you do something else, and with a script that sounds like an actual script and not one of those live dissections as someone watches a video (and due to such a script doesn't come off as so emotionally charged *cough cough*)
in general alot of these vids have me actually watching them in intrigue, so good job on that too man
Good video also uh doesn't one of the pikmin games along with the caves i dunno explain that how Earth is i dunno so messed up to the point that time and stuff is a bit strange so like time difference and the daylight in the caves would make sense
1:46
He has issues man 💀
bro cooked
Considering the other stuff I’ve seen from him. This isn’t the first wild take he had, and it won’t be the last. The capitalism part sounded like complete projection lmao.
Crab man displays what a midwit he is when it comes to pikmin 2. Great video btw.
While i see where schafs comeing from its not hard to see why alot of ppl have been play pikmin 2 for the first time and coming back with scars and all the pikmin community says is
DaNdoRi Isu stut up
THIS USER is the OPINION BASHER. just jokes, love the video, and loved the tamatoagamingda jumpscare
I can't fucking stand Schaf so thank you for this.
Caves are great and Nintendo should make a spin off or dlc game mode thats all caves. You heard me. We need a pikmin mystery dungeon game.
Great age rating bit
He just has a Dandori Issue
I'm a pretty big fan of Schaf but I think this is def one of his worst videos. It's the kinda video where I think maybe having discussed the game with other pikmin fans could've helped the video out a lot
in the same video this dude spams bitter spray and says purple pikmin are op while constantly using them sounds like a dandori issue
It was shocking watching his video.
I liked the banjo tooie music :D