Woah, didn’t expect to end up in your footage. I didn’t even realise I was riding with you, albeit briefly. Great event, although I almost DNS’d and sadly couldn’t ride the long route. There’s always next year. Greetings from Finland!
Thank you SRAM!! Cracking options to suit almost every budget it's great to see SRAM pushing the price lower for AXS and mechanical 12 speed. Over to you Shimano.
Finally, an affordable mechanical 12-speed groupset. This event looks like a lot of fun. Great video and review! Thanks a lot for the excellent coverage, David. 🙌🏻
it costs more than NX and GX Eagle.... and even more than Rival AXS and the old Force edit: ok... if we talking about groupsets with drop bar shifters: NX and GX only works with 3rd party shifters but even with the 500$ shifter from gevenalle it's cheaper :D
@@5amba you are right (atm) but we are talking about list prices which will drop sooner than later and a new and affordable option for upcoming gravel bikes in a lower price range. 12-speed is finally available for all. Thanks for mentioning Eagle. Great groupset too! 🙌🏻
@@SoManyMiles I'm talking about prices in online shops right now here in Germany. Yes, everything is in stock. Sure this will change, as soon as the old force is out of stock. But right now is actually the best time. I don't think Force and Rival will get any cheaper, than right now.
It's not affordable at all. But probably SRAM noticed they had to do something. I can imagine the introduction of luxury stuff like hydraulic brakes and electronic shifting at basically the same time did eat into their profits. Maybe it would be if there was a mechanical brake option.
So nice of SRAM to have these cassettes with different freehub body compatability. I can use my current wheels with them! The initial hesitation I had about a 1x setup was having larger jumps between the cogs. But, looking at the tooth details, I don't think I'd mind. Most of my 11 speed 11-30 cassette averages 10% change from cog to cog... On this new 12spd 11-44, most average 14%, (with the 3 smallets cogs - the 11-12-13 being at 8%). I really don't think that change will bother me.
In my opinion $1200 is not budget for a group set. The bike industry as a whole needs a wake up call. We as consumers need to vote with our money and stop paying these kind of prices. Companies are charging $2500 for an entry level bike now, this is ridiculous.
I'm interested in the Xplr variant, with an XDR 10-36 cassette. Question would be: am I obliged to employ the flat-top 12 speed chain, or any 12 speed chain will work?
For the range you want, you will definitely use a flat top chain and a chainring compatible with it if you’re going for a third party brand like Garbaruk or Wolftooth. However, the AXS Mullet variant will use a different chainset and chainring.
I don't see how it's affordable for SRAM to keep 4 versions of the same thing. I'm sure it's super hard to come up with changes that make it 5 to 10% cheaper. Is it really worth it to have groupsets that are just a tiny bit cheaper? Is it worth saving 100$ on this compared to Rival? A single 12 mechanical groupset in the market by a big brand makes it a lot simpler, though.
I thought the title was suggesting "how Does SRAM keep dropping its chains" like Roglic experienced during the time trial and GC deciding stage of the Giro.
Welcome to Scandinavian Gravel! I emailed you an invite to SE Sweden David a few weeks back. Our gravel is (I'd argue) even better, as the landscape is much hillier and there are hundreds of lakes. You'd be very welcome to come explore our corner of Scandinavia and the incredible cycling we have here. Swim Cycle Sweden.
hi David great video as always this has been a very educational, but I'm interested what chain ring and cassette your using on your giant 1 x set up ..
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! 🧐 I’ve got a question: 🤨 I found these words 😅. (behave today finger ski upon boy assault summer exhaust beauty stereo over). I’d be grateful for some help. 🙌
Increasing the price of the Rival is really lame though. How much do we trust SRAM's pricing on the Apex? Force D2 went up considerably. MSRP on cranksets on launch day were $275 and MSRP now $400. Powermeter chainrings were $400 and now MSRP is $600.
Yes, noticed the same, prices for "new" (apart from 2x cranks and shifters just paint job is new) Force parts are at a significatnly higher level and haven't dropped so far.
Good to know about that gravel event now. Thanks. I have electronic Rival and it's bit slow actually, but kinda okay and I wanted it cause was interested in electronic shifting. And Sram cranks are also not stiff enough.
@@BurgerTime7441 Yeah, is a bit slow and not accurate when cassette+chain gets dirty. Mechanical GRX is likely faster and if I would have know this would have chosen that GRX instead. But when bought bike Rival eTap only available option in stock. Depends how you ride. I cycle more or less so that only best equipment is adequate/works.
Yes, with any disc brake grupset you can set up the disc brakes any way you want when you first install them, but you want to do it before you wrap the handlebars with tape
I broke my GRX rear derailleur a couple of weeks ago on a adventure run around 40€ for a new one of course you have to pay more for the work but a Sram Apex 12speed is 400€ great value if you are loaded with cash.
Hard to broke an AXS derailleur. I am using mountain ones since 2019 and fall many times, but no issues there. Once a plastic cover broke but the replacement part is only 8-10 euros.
The event was also hosted by Valterri's partner, Tiffany Cromwell a pro cyclist and more relevant than Valterri in this context. Not sure why you didnt mention them both at least?
Certainly frustrating as a shimano guy. I really wouldn't care who makes my drivetrain (as I have no real allegiance on MTB), but I think shimano controls are best and I don't want a 1x drivetrain anywhere other than the mountain. Sram continues their effort to minimize and likely eventually completely erase the FD. Come on shimano! Up your game!! Double tap is the worst!! I'll also always take the few hundred dollar savings over electronic (at least at current income).
Very suprised theres so many long sleeved even jacket using riders there.. i remember the day was almost "heat" day in finland (heat warning limit is 25°c)
I don’t see that ever happening. The big companies have nothing to gain from this and there really isn’t much room for a startup to make a sustainable profit
I still don’t understand people who say that 1x is “simpler”, what on earth is complicated about a 2x? I’ve run both mechanical and electronic 2x group sets for years and never had a single issue with a front mech that has cost a ride. Indeed, worst case scenario if a front mech fails is that you end up with a 1x……
Hi Dave, Sram can do it because they are not Japanese. Stuck in traditional of the Samari culture. The whole country is in crisis because of the refusal to change. The newer lost face culture.
Welcome to Finland! As we say, the Finnish summer is short, and this time it was on a Saturday (10 June).
I'm so glad you came to Finland - and filmed this while staying here! Thank you.
Woah, didn’t expect to end up in your footage. I didn’t even realise I was riding with you, albeit briefly. Great event, although I almost DNS’d and sadly couldn’t ride the long route. There’s always next year. Greetings from Finland!
Thank you SRAM!! Cracking options to suit almost every budget it's great to see SRAM pushing the price lower for AXS and mechanical 12 speed. Over to you Shimano.
Wait until you thank SRAM for unreliable brakes or components broken when you are stranded in middle of nowhere 😂
Like the known wandering bite point and failed XTR shifters @@thewanderer5269 ?
@@JoshuaTootellwandering in Scottish conditions reveals SRAM’s limitations but Shimano prevails not paid by any of them but experiences around.
Finally, an affordable mechanical 12-speed groupset. This event looks like a lot of fun. Great video and review! Thanks a lot for the excellent coverage, David. 🙌🏻
it costs more than NX and GX Eagle....
and even more than Rival AXS and the old Force
edit: ok... if we talking about groupsets with drop bar shifters: NX and GX only works with 3rd party shifters
but even with the 500$ shifter from gevenalle it's cheaper :D
@@5amba you are right (atm) but we are talking about list prices which will drop sooner than later and a new and affordable option for upcoming gravel bikes in a lower price range. 12-speed is finally available for all.
Thanks for mentioning Eagle. Great groupset too! 🙌🏻
@@SoManyMiles I'm talking about prices in online shops right now here in Germany.
Yes, everything is in stock.
Sure this will change, as soon as the old force is out of stock. But right now is actually the best time. I don't think Force and Rival will get any cheaper, than right now.
It's not affordable at all. But probably SRAM noticed they had to do something. I can imagine the introduction of luxury stuff like hydraulic brakes and electronic shifting at basically the same time did eat into their profits.
Maybe it would be if there was a mechanical brake option.
AXS Mullet is apt for a bike ride with Valteri Bottas.
Awesome video! Glad you enjoyed Finland and the race. Finland is pretty much perfect country for gravel riding!
So nice of SRAM to have these cassettes with different freehub body compatability. I can use my current wheels with them! The initial hesitation I had about a 1x setup was having larger jumps between the cogs. But, looking at the tooth details, I don't think I'd mind. Most of my 11 speed 11-30 cassette averages 10% change from cog to cog... On this new 12spd 11-44, most average 14%, (with the 3 smallets cogs - the 11-12-13 being at 8%). I really don't think that change will bother me.
A great video. Finland cycling looks amazing. Groupset looks great value too.
In my opinion $1200 is not budget for a group set. The bike industry as a whole needs a wake up call. We as consumers need to vote with our money and stop paying these kind of prices. Companies are charging $2500 for an entry level bike now, this is ridiculous.
He’s telling accessible, not budget.
I'm interested in the Xplr variant, with an XDR 10-36 cassette. Question would be: am I obliged to employ the flat-top 12 speed chain, or any 12 speed chain will work?
For the range you want, you will definitely use a flat top chain and a chainring compatible with it if you’re going for a third party brand like Garbaruk or Wolftooth. However, the AXS Mullet variant will use a different chainset and chainring.
I don't see how it's affordable for SRAM to keep 4 versions of the same thing. I'm sure it's super hard to come up with changes that make it 5 to 10% cheaper. Is it really worth it to have groupsets that are just a tiny bit cheaper? Is it worth saving 100$ on this compared to Rival?
A single 12 mechanical groupset in the market by a big brand makes it a lot simpler, though.
More often than not, when I see a gravel ride video I think: "that would be so much for comfortable on a hardtail mtb and probably just as fast."
I thought the title was suggesting "how Does SRAM keep dropping its chains" like Roglic experienced during the time trial and GC deciding stage of the Giro.
Great review. Any chance we can get the location of the roads? Or maybe even a Strava?
Nice video!! What frame bag are you using?
Thanks that looks like biking heaven!
Welcome to Scandinavian Gravel!
I emailed you an invite to SE Sweden David a few weeks back. Our gravel is (I'd argue) even better, as the landscape is much hillier and there are hundreds of lakes. You'd be very welcome to come explore our corner of Scandinavia and the incredible cycling we have here.
Swim Cycle Sweden.
Looks like a fantastic event !!
hi David great video as always this has been a very educational, but I'm interested what chain ring and cassette your using on your giant 1 x set up ..
3:00 - Is it compatible with HG road or MTB freehubs?
Can this be mixed an matched with other SRAM AXS components? Like a front Rival derailleur?
Yup! 👍
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! 🧐 I’ve got a question: 🤨 I found these words 😅. (behave today finger ski upon boy assault summer exhaust beauty stereo over). I’d be grateful for some help. 🙌
Why not just a GX AXS rear and a Force shifter? That can be pieced together pretty cheaply and save weight
This new apex line will most likely make things more affordable in general when you consider the impact on the second hand market.
Increasing the price of the Rival is really lame though.
How much do we trust SRAM's pricing on the Apex? Force D2 went up considerably. MSRP on cranksets on launch day were $275 and MSRP now $400. Powermeter chainrings were $400 and now MSRP is $600.
Yes, noticed the same, prices for "new" (apart from 2x cranks and shifters just paint job is new) Force parts are at a significatnly higher level and haven't dropped so far.
Good to know about that gravel event now. Thanks.
I have electronic Rival and it's bit slow actually, but kinda okay and I wanted it cause was interested in electronic shifting. And Sram cranks are also not stiff enough.
Really? The shifting is slow?
@@BurgerTime7441 Yeah, is a bit slow and not accurate when cassette+chain gets dirty.
Mechanical GRX is likely faster and if I would have know this would have chosen that GRX instead.
But when bought bike Rival eTap only available option in stock.
Depends how you ride. I cycle more or less so that only best equipment is adequate/works.
Awesome video showing Finland and Srams new Apex groupset which looks great/price but Shimano quality/price can't be beaten.
Is it possible to swap the brakes (front to right and rear brake to left side) on these electronic groupsets?
Yes, with any disc brake grupset you can set up the disc brakes any way you want when you first install them, but you want to do it before you wrap the handlebars with tape
I broke my GRX rear derailleur a couple of weeks ago on a adventure run around 40€ for a new one of course you have to pay more for the work but a Sram Apex 12speed is 400€ great value if you are loaded with cash.
Hard to broke an AXS derailleur. I am using mountain ones since 2019 and fall many times, but no issues there. Once a plastic cover broke but the replacement part is only 8-10 euros.
So excited for Valterri's transition into just being "Tiffany Cromwell's boyfriend." Seems like a solid dude. Much love for those Finns.
What the name of the event?
New X1 Eagle AXS groupset with HG cassette?
does they offer a short cage version?
for a 10-28T cassette
for the city bike 😅
Yeah, would love a short cage version for on-road use too. 10-36, 10-33 or 10-30.
The event was also hosted by Valterri's partner, Tiffany Cromwell a pro cyclist and more relevant than Valterri in this context. Not sure why you didnt mention them both at least?
Ignorant of female racers 🇦🇺
Hopefully you will able to buy 12 speed mechanical under £600 or I will buy new ltwoo
Are you going to get your hands on the new Grail?
hopefully
when is the release date? whats the retail price? the rival xplr sells for unter 1k now.
it's in french but translate mate :P
Release date is now and prices are in the video
this is what I need on my bike
Certainly frustrating as a shimano guy. I really wouldn't care who makes my drivetrain (as I have no real allegiance on MTB), but I think shimano controls are best and I don't want a 1x drivetrain anywhere other than the mountain. Sram continues their effort to minimize and likely eventually completely erase the FD. Come on shimano! Up your game!! Double tap is the worst!!
I'll also always take the few hundred dollar savings over electronic (at least at current income).
Very suprised theres so many long sleeved even jacket using riders there.. i remember the day was almost "heat" day in finland (heat warning limit is 25°c)
Aweome content! Would you mind sharing the route?
If you like the blips so much, why not replace them with some flat bar shifters and save yourself 95% of groupset cost
they work with blips? cause Rival doesn't
Yes just like Rival they work with wireless Blips. Seems SRAM hasn't maybe done a good enough job communicating this?
You might need to run the update on firmware to get the wireless Blips to work.
I wonder if this will work with shimano grx hydraulic brakes.
Unlikely, it's designed to use DOT fluid.
@@endianAphones Thanks, though it sucks. I didn't know that there are different types of fluids for bike brakes.
Ooh, 1,000 Lakes territory......"if you're not sideways, you're not going fast enough...".
Who makes that bag?
Alpkit
Beautiful bike.
BTW is there a mechanical dropper option for this?
only with extra lever:
Crankbrothers Highline for example
Also Easton and PRO offer a dropper lever for gravel.
Just google "gravel dropper lever" 😄
What I really want is an "open source" electronic shifter.
I don’t see that ever happening. The big companies have nothing to gain from this and there really isn’t much room for a startup to make a sustainable profit
Open source is usually from the hard work of dedicated volunteers.
So, start volunteering.
Looks like a win for sram
Can anyone tell me what brand the frame bag is?
The bags from Alpkit
currently it costs more than rival and also more than the old force...
Now if Sram only Sram could be on more OEM rides.
Quite far from being "the cheapest electronic groupset".
The cheapest from the big three groupset manufacturers at least that you can walk into a shop today and buy
I still don’t understand people who say that 1x is “simpler”, what on earth is complicated about a 2x? I’ve run both mechanical and electronic 2x group sets for years and never had a single issue with a front mech that has cost a ride. Indeed, worst case scenario if a front mech fails is that you end up with a 1x……
man i hate eletronic shifting
Shimano works!
promo sm 🤩
FaceRide? Really? What is the thought behind this brand name? 😂
Hi Dave, Sram can do it because they are not Japanese. Stuck in traditional of the Samari culture. The whole country is in crisis because of the refusal to change. The newer lost face culture.
Hi
How do they do it! MOST of cycling is way overpriced, duh!
These gravel events look like some of the most boring mountain bike rides ever.