Electronic Shifting - Is it worth it, and do you need it? - Road Cycling
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- Electronic Shifting - Is it worth it, and do you need it? - A Guide to Road Cycling
One of the questions on the lips of most riders with a mechanical groupset is, “Is there really any benefit to upgrading to electrical?” Well, in this video, we’re going to answer exactly that.
Pro’s:
Shifting
Reduced maintenance
Control
Adaptive use
Cons:
Expensive.
Flat Battery.
Small Shifter Buttons
Problems can be hard to repair.
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:50 - The industry is changing
01:34 - The Price to upgrade
02:35 - What is good about electronic shifting
06:30 - What is not so good about electronic shifting
11:10 - How do you decide
About Ribble Valley Cyclist:
I am a regular road cyclist based in the North West of England. I have been a cyclist my whole life, and try to get out every day. The purpose of my TH-cam channel is to share the knowledge I’ve built up in my 40 years as a cyclist.
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It's easy to be a luddite, Especially to us British, compared to our European neighbours we are easily 6 years behind when it comes to ebikes and their usage ( don't even get started on wine, coffee, food and lifestyle) BUT since the year dot progress is progress and will not be stopped. Value ??? When in the real world has value EVER had anything to do with cycling!! for most of us who cycle for competition/ pleasure/relaxation/fitness/companionship/and our mental health ??Have the best you can have when it comes to your best bicycle, because this is your passion and also it's mental & physical health. and those two things you can't put a pound sign on . If ( and i get it ) the feel of something mechanical that is perfectly adjusted floats your boat then yes go for cable operated , and also the maintenance / tuning of it may also hold pride & contentment ..... BUT in that case IF something working perfectly does float your boat then electronic shifting DOES work perfectly EVERYTIME. And where you wont be needing to maintain it , you can spend that time instead playing with the settings which are almost infinite to get it perfected for you and your riding style instead, OR the next ride that you are planning . ELECTRONIC shifting is simply the way to go .
Smilebikes, you have it. Everything you say here is what this video is all about. I especially like the point "" I think I'll pin your comment. Oh, and coffee, buy an Italian machine, and import the beans........ However, I suspect you already know and do that 😉
You obviously didn't watch the worlds or any major tour. They break down all the time
By "progress" you mean pointless consumerism and destruction of the planet?
1. Cycling used to not be expensive. 2. I can afford a pinarelo but will never buy one because I care about value.
@pierrex3226 the entire history of cycling has been about Independance and Access. It would appear the industry is hell bent on removing both. "Craft beer" bullsh*t
I've been riding for nearly 60 years and have never broken a gear cable. However I've been knocked off a few times and fallen off more than a few times and prefer the cost of mechanical replacements rather than the expense of electronic components. I'll stick with mechanical. It just works.
Not broken a gear cable in 60 years.... Wish I was that lucky!
Only cable that has ever failed on me is on my first cheap 10-speed as a pre-teen. One does not need to shift on descents very much if at all. Only when the descent flattens or transitions to uphill. My '89 Bianchi has never needed a cable change. Never broken a derailleur. This guy is full of it when talking about reliability. Mechanical is absolutely reliable.
Agree, not been going that long, probably 40ish, and I have never ever broken a shifter cable. Fallen and damaged shifters, mechs? Plenty.
The 11 speed Shimano shifters have a design flaw that makes it much easier to break the cables 😵
@@ribblevalleycyclistthat’s when preventive maintenance comes in. Change cables regularly before they break!
One of the joys for me on a bike is mechanically moving those derailleurs and feeling the shifts. For me it's all about being part of the machine not just about being an operator.
Fair point well made.
You're symbiotic with your mechanical bike no more than an electronic one. You did not select the alloys. You did not draw the drawings. You did not write the assembly instructions. You did not 5 axis the parts. You did anodize, etch, metallize whatever the components. You didn't paint them. You couldn't have imagined them. And neither could I. So you, nor me, are or ever be "part of the machine". You need to actually irl try di2 and to stop this gaslighting nonsense about mechanical. Di2 is insane and I wish people had told me sooner
LOL! People who prefer cars with manual transmissions have a similar argument.
But...but..but....That's a totally different thing there!! Manual in a car means you control when to shift. More RPMS is good! On the bike, it may be a motor moving the derailleur, but you still have to make it do it!
@@dentatusdentatus1592
You just move a stupid lever. There is nothing special with doing this.
Im still on 10 speed ultegra and 11 speed aram GX. Its absolutely great. No charging, no batteries running flat because a strap was over the shifter button. I can fix and service cable my self and it is a lot cheaper. Electronic might be a bit better, but its not for me.
Have tried DI2 and etap and yeah it is easy and works, but still using Ultegra 6800 mechanical. Just prefer the feel of shift manually, if that is the word to describe it. And I know alot of guys on electric that shift poorly and are noisy due to poor maintenance in regard to chains, jockey wheels and basic cleaning.
Same here. I don't race, so what's good enough is good enough.
No charging a battery that lasts 6 months 😢😢😢 such a good point
battery charging, I'm too disorganised to pre-charge my battery prior to a spur of the moment run out
@@hgm8337 yeah, to be fair I charge my watch up to ride and lights as needed to keep riding through the winter, but its just another thing to keep charged up.
I used to have ultegra Di2 until one day my bike fell over from leaning against a wall; rear mech never worked again. Went back to mechanical, never been happier.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing 👍
Was on my mind for Ultegra di2 , this comment change my mind
😀 I used to drive a car until one day a tree fell on it, never worked again. Went back to horse drawn carriage, never been happier.
@@KBKriechbaum the difference being I'd expect my bike to still work after falling over but I wouldn't expect your car to still work after being under a tree.
@@kieron88ward Well, the point is that rear mech is fragile in general, has nothing to do with DI2. If you bend it, every rear mech will give you troubles until you fix it or replace bent part. Often the hanger. Making it tough enough to survive every fall is like making a car tough enough to survive the tree, not feasible.
I've had di2 for ages and even though mechanical was fun and tactile I'll never go back. Di2 for life.
I met a professional rider who was fuming at the way the electronics failed at a crucial stage of a race. He said, stuff the sponsors...when I'm in race mode, I want bullet proof reliability. And that is cable connected gear changes.
Exactly
If this is an Argument then maybe you should only ride on indoor trainers.
Enjoy your ride!
I doubt many pros would choose mechanical, it's just slower to shift and awkward if you're sprinting for example. Split seconds matter for them
@@pierrex3226 Nonsense... Mechanical s faster, period. The only limitation, and that goes for all systems and methods is the rotational speed of the drive train.
@@chaosengine3772 even if one or the other is faster, the question should be how much faster? The next question should be how much this small difference would make for 99% of riders? I don't see the payoff being their for most.
While you mentioned that electronic shifting is more certain, one thing I have noticed on my daily 13 mile each way commute across London is that the shifting certainty means that I change gear more often, I don't sit in the "wrong" gear anymore because changing gear is so reliable. My speed is slightly increased and my perceived effort is reduced.
Interesting point 👍
Funny thing is, I notice the exact same thing when I finally upgraded from down tube shifters
Agreed and you don't have the urge to grind small hills up with the big ring because the front derailleur shifts so well.
You're right, I do shift more with electronic because I know it's easier to do it. I use more of the cassette.
Looking for an automatic shifting?
I've switched from a 2x to a 1x mechanical groupset and I gotta say, some of the downsides of mechanical shifting are taken care of by that. It's so much easier to index the gears now and takes about a minute. And since I'm a weekend warrior I don't care much about the performance. If it works, it works. What I do care about is availability and affordability of parts. So I guess I'll stick with mechanical for a while.
Thanks, Nick. The 1x mechanical standpoint is a good point.
Thanks for sharing.
Jon
I use mechanical 105 shifting. I've done test rides on bikes with electronic shifting. I guess it's fine but I just don't get what the big deal is. People act like it's this huge upgrade and I'm like, meh. I think I'm just old fashioned. If I can use a bike with no electronics: no power meter, no bike computer, no electronic shifting, then that's what I'm going to do. I like having a bike be a purely mechanical, relatively simple machine.
Yeah, I found my computer distracting so I took it of my bike and haven’t used it since .
And you're right a bike is supposed to be simple and for anybody easy to maintained !!!
@@jean-paullanglois5452di2 is far easier to maintain than mechanical though. It's literally set and forget. You don't ever have to index or change cables or adjust.
Is electronic shifting worth it? No.
Do I need it? No.
Do I want it? Yes!
I'm a 77 yo for whom fiddling with mechanicals is part of the fun. My main bike is a 2003 Lemond Tormelet. The mix of 105 and Deore 3x7 shifts perfectly. One can do the micro shift on front mech by adjusting the limit screw just past the resting shift position. In fact, that's essential for a good shift. It helps to have robust hands. My mate with hand arthritis does have Di2 and loves it. He has had all the issues mentioned. Dead battery, intermittent cable issues, etc. When dust had fouled his chain so the rear stopped shifting we did not consider a mechanical issue till getting the bike on a stand.
This is he best review of the issues I've seen.
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your comments. A 2003 Lemond Tourmalet..... nice!
It's good that your pal with arthritis gets to ride still, maybe thats when electronic is good?
Thanks again, Bruce 👍
Kudos to this post. I am an old rider using mechanical. I prefer the feel and force it takes to actuate the levers and I can service them all myself. I still have a mean handshake at 60yrs and am not a fan of electronic shifters or disc brakes. I can already lock up and skid with rim brakes just fine. Thank you for the content!
Hi BH,
Thanks, glad you liked it..... and glad to read you've still got a mean handshake 🤣
On the subject of electronic/mechanical and rim/disc…… For me, both have their place, so both should be manufactured. However, it’s all about the profit.
Thanks for watching.
Jon
Trust me once you have had disc brakes and electronic shifting you will not go back to crappy mechanical gears and rim brakes you just won’t.
@MrChippiechappie clearly, you never learnt how to set up rim brakes properly.
Locking the wheels is not the sign of a good braking system. You can push disc brakes harder than rim pads and the wheels don't skid. The bike decelerates in a controlled manner.
@westinthewest no, but the ABILITY to lock the wheels is a good sign of an efficient braking system. What you say about pushing disc brakes harder than rim brakes is simply not true. It all depends on the TYRES.
I'm almost 50 yo now and got a SRAM Force etap. Money can buy happiness... I might not be faster, but I simply love the electronic sequential shifting. Cheers!
I've got same experience... except of I'd swap my age with you if you O.K. ?
Ive got over 60 high end bikes from 12spd DA to 9spd record.
Main thing is a straight hanger and properly tuned gears.
Best groupset overall is 7800. IYKYK.
Hey Durianrider,
Thanks for paying my little channel a visit 👍
Ain't gonna disagree with any of that...... Not sure I like the idea of maintaining 60 bikes though 😬
Thanks,
Jon
I 100% prefer the mechanical shifting because of following reasons:
- cheaper
- more direct connection to your bicycle
- no batteries to be charged
- no batteries added to the mountain of waste
As the old saying goes, horses for courses. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@ribblevalleycyclist what is the advantage of adding batteries to the mountain of waste?
I just got my first bike with an electronic groupset, and I will never go back to mechanical. In terms of batteries, there is an easy solution: Use SRAM electronic group sets, such as Rival (most affordable), Force or Red (most expensive), rather than Di2. The SRAM batteries are way cheaper and easier to replace and charge. In fact, that was one of the reasons I got SRAM, including the ability to take a spare battery on my long rides. Regarding the difference in price point of mechanical vs electronic group sets, that is just part of the game, save for an extra couple of months and enjoy! Life is short!
Hi Jay.... Enjoy that new bike 👍 And yeah, the SRAM battery system is pretty slick!
Thanks for watching,
Jon
Di2 battery last like 6 months, I have never bought a replace battery, battery has never got flat
@@echd1Great to know, but I still prefer the peace of mind that I can carry a spare on my long rides. Military life makes people, eh, different. LOL
There are someones stealing SRAM batteries while you are buying a coffee😅
@@harrywang2566 I never heard of that, but if true, the spare battery would be very helpful.
The only time I would stop for coffee would be during the "Ride to Conquer Cancer" or similar events, where they provide food. But on situations like that my bike would be attached to my hip at all times, since I had a Garmin watch stolen from my bike many years ago.
My point is that carrying a small 20 grams battery is not a big deal when I go for the 100km+ bike ride alone - my preferred type as I don't have to wait for weaker riders or try to follow the stronger ones and I can enjoy my pain in solitude. LOL
I ride a Specialized Roubaix Comp with SRAM Rival eTap shifting. SRAM has two advantages over Shimano, in my opinion. First, there is but one shift lever under each brake lever, so there is no fussing about trying to find the smaller level like with Di2. Second, if you do not check battery levels frequently enough and get caught on the road with a dead battery (and it WILL happen, hopefully only once!), it will be the one on the rear derailleur that is used more frequently. At this point, one merely selects the front chain wheel one uses more (the large if you are like me and do not do enormous hills!) then swap the batteries on the front and rear derailleurs, which will allow you to continue to shift on the cassette and get home, hopefully not letting it happen again! I upgraded to this bike last year from a 2018 Roubaix and do not regret it for a moment!
Yep, I just picked up the Roubaix SL8 Expert also with SRAM Rival and I love it.
Never had a problem finding the buttons on my Di2 Ultegra. Even with thick gloves. That being said I'm fine with my mechanical bikes too so I don't think electronic shifting is such a big upgrade anyway.
While I don't regret going electronic on my Road Bike I admit to being a little underwhelmed by Di2. I never had issues with shifting or setting up mechanical, I actually quite like setting up/indexing gears. Never had a cable snap that I can remember, had a SRAM force return spring go once, took me a while to figure out why my rear mech' was automatically climbing the cassette!
I think I listened to much to the "YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK" people and expected to blown away but at the end of the day, you push a thing, and a thing moves a chain that's it! I know there's "synchro" and auto trim but I've been shifting 2X for 30 years my brain and muscle memory does that. I'll admit it shifts better and I like the satellite buttons for when I relax on the tops and settle into a long climb, (I'm one of the 3 or 4 people on the planet that purchased the Garmin remote who didn't hate it so I don't care about that function) but for me its just not the game changer or deal braker I expected and I'm not clambering to upgrade my mech' bikes any time soon.
I have a similar opinion on Rim Vs Disc Brakes, but being a 54kg whippet, I suspect Sir Isaac Newton has something to do with that one 😆
Hi Bikey McBeardface. Loved reading your thoughts.... a logical brain-dump from an experienced cyclist. I agree on all points. When it matters the most, there is no difference....... when you're shoving it along a long straight road, or climbing up 20% climb, it doesn't matter whether you've got Claris or Di2 Dura Ace, what matters is your effort..... and that the gear change happens if you need one. For me, the one thing I like is that I can flip between head unit screens..... So it's a lot to pay for such a small feature, and as you say, use the remote. One thing I should've mentioned in this video is the art of maintaining a bike. After all, any idiot can connect a Bluetooth device, or plug something in, but building a mechanical groupset is a skill we may lose.
Maybe one day I'll do that rim disc video thats in my head!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
What you said around 3:20 about over shifting; that's how you shift on the old lever style top tube and down tube shifters. That's cool they programmed it into indexed gears
Yeah, it is clever, thanks Caveman 👍
I loved my 1970 Cinella full campy downtube levers, five speed cassette, tubular tires ( oh the glorious sound of silk tires humming at speed), rim brakes, and quick release with drop outs that did NOT need the skewers to be turned. The wheel just drops out. In the early days we did not even have speedometers! The most noticeable improvement in tech are the clipless pedals and shoes vs toe clips😊
Nice perspective. The 2 genuinely high level racers I know, though, both run mechanical. Their bikes go in and out of cars/vans every weekend, and they've both had issues with batteries dying and/or finding themselves trying to diagnose an electronic gremlin at 1am in a hotel room. They both agree Di2 is objectively better, but it's once bitten, twice shy.
Thanks, JD, some good points there.
I thought I don’t need it, but now that I have it I don’t want to go back to old tech. I absolutely love it. As a matter of fact, I also bought a mountainbike with electronic shifting.
My thoughts too 👍
i dont mind electronic shifting, im just against the price as it stands now. It's a ripoff
I think it depends - as most things - on the use case. I would recommend it on road bikes as the shifting really is super smooth, no maintenance due to wore out cables, no adjustments anymore once it's setted up. (the battery is very long lasting and durable as well)
But I wouldn't recommend it for gravel/offroad bikes as it seems a bit fragile to me in case of falling down or collisions with roots or whatever...
Completely agree with you, Hellebarde. Well said 👍
I have made the switch to Di2 and I have to say I like it better. Especially when doing climbs or just reacting to an attack in a race. It is an instant shift. Smooth and just feels good. I do wish the industry would still provide both. I do not like how they so quickly phase out old mostly reliable components. Same with disc brakes. Would be cool to still be able to buy a super lightweight rim brake bike new. I properly charged battery last a long time and hasn't been an issue for me. It also charges pretty fast as well. Overall, to me, it is worth the cost difference. As far as the electric cable for the front derailleur I taped it to my seat tube and so it is safely out of the way. I did have one rub up against my rear tire and it came close to fraying it in two before I noticed it. Luckily, I caught it in time, and it still works.
Agreed Mark, it would be good to have both brake options, especially for riders in countries where disc brakes are not needed...... must be very frustrating for those people.
your presentations are not boring. thank you❤
I've been riding for 60 years and always embraced new tech, index gears (remember them?), brake shifters and now electronic gears. I've used etap for six years now with not a single problem. Price, don't care! Batteries, I carry a spare but have never used it. Shifting in the cold is dead easy. I am a minimalist so love the lack of stuff you get with etap. No cables on the bars, no cables in the frame or near the wheels. I wish I'd had them when I was racing in Yorkshire back in the day. I was always missing the break up the hill cause I couldn't find the right gear, at least that was my excuse.
I’m fully satisfied with all the clarifications between E shifting and mechanical. I was thankful I hang around on my mechanical shifters, it works for me. I subscibe to your channel.
Tried electronic for 2000kms & compared to mechanical couldn't wait to get rid of it. Main cons: gotta regularly recharge, more expensive, replacement parts cost more, less connected with the bike...For the professional peloton it makes sense but for casual & leisure cyclists it's overkill imho
My sentiments exactly. Although I have never tried electronic shifting, I am sure it is superior; but how good does it need to be? My GRX mechanical in conjunction with Jagwire Pro shifts wonderfully well.
If you link the electronic groupset with your headunit, it'll prompt you when the batteries are almost dead, and when you do get the prompt, you still have 10% remaining. Offcourse, if you ignore that or don't link it, it's your own fault that it died because of an empty battery.
Yes it's more expensive, but maintenance free and will deliver a perfect shift every time. That for me is enough to go electronic
I even use di2 on my indoor bike for 3 years now, oh yes, no more damaged cables becasue of the sweat. No need to adjust cable tension or replace cables. Never had an empty battery
@@klaasv88 don't have or need a headunit or ride indoors or had cables damaged due to sweat. I was able to monitor the battery level via phone app. I used electronic shifting to see what all the fuss was about & to give it the benefit of the doubt. Felt it like a gimmick. I prefer the lever throw to shift gears rather than press buttons. As I said earlier with electronic shifting I felt less connected to the bike. I ride approximately 15000kms per year & mechanical shifting with rim brakes has made me very happy for the last 80000kms.
I’ve only charged my di2 twice this year and I ride around 100 mile a week. Not massive miles but the battery life isn’t an issue at least not on di2.
I picked up a tt bike with di2 last year and it’s made my road bike with mechanical borderline unrideable because the electronic is just so much better. Perfect shift every time, it just never messes up. I get so aggravated on my road bike having to feather the shifter to try to micro adjust when it mis-shifts. Now I’m in the market for a used di2 groupo so that I’m not so mad on my road bike 😂
Creating this video has taught me that the vast majority of people that take issue with electric shifting........ don't have, and never have used electric shifting.
You just don't know how to adjust a derailler that all 😊!
Having just bought a bike with mechanical as my electric group set bike broke I can definitely say I’m swapping back to electric as it crisper changes and easier to change on hills.
That announcement was really clear and convincing. Thank you 🙏.
Glad it was helpful!
Great vid. Short answer to the question: Yes, it's worth it to upgrade to electronic. I've never had a dead battery, it shifts the same way every time, and it's far easier to shift while you're in the middle of an effort, or braking. No brainer.
All good points well mate.
Thanks,
Jon
Downside of electronic is your locked into a techno trap of needing a phone or device, internet, accounts, firmware updates, the money for all of those things. I feel it leads to more expensive bikes overall. Plus if your like me and tech minimalist like myself sort of locks you out of that's product.
Comes from my experience of not having a job for a bit and needing cheap transport to get back onto my feet financially.
Hi Chris,
I agree, there is a real downside to letting tech take over from mechanical.
Glad you're back on your feet 👍
Jon
Disagree - from all of those things I had only money, while buying my SRAM eTap. And it never needed any, riding some 70000km over last 5 years.
Yup. Same with Shimano di2. 130k on the clock. No issues and nothing needed bar a shifter that I crashed when falling off the bike. Battery after 11 years still only needs a charge twice a year and that's after sitting locked away for 4 years not being used after a major cbike accident..of which the hearing on the bike was fine@@jazemkrzysio
No, sram etap 11 speed offers no connectivity to smartphone, or needs firmware updates. It’s very basic and just works.
I've been cycling 50+ years. I have never had a gear cable break or had one that needed replacing or any maintainence, outside of the end of it getting frayed. There are people on a mission in this World to introduce complexity, when simplicity is the way to go.
So, let make sure I’ve got this right. You’ve been cycling for 50+ years, and you’ve never maintained, replaced or snapped a gear cable?
@@ribblevalleycyclistI'm pretty sure I never changes a shift cable on my Trek 1400. Of course, that bike had downtube shifters and a very clean and simple cable run.
I've replaced cables just for good measure when doing maintenance or more often when putting an older bike back into riding shape. Never due to breakage. In fact, I recently tossed out some"new" cables because they'd been sitting around so long unused that they started to rust a bit.
Maybe modern system that use tight bends in the cable path cause greater wear that leads to breakage. If so, then that's just poor design.
Everyone should put down at least 2k miles in a mechanical groupset before ever touching an electric one. Reason one being, you should learn to understand shifting and the aspects of the groupset. Reason two being itll make you journey with the bike more fun when you get that electric upgrade, if you decide to get it.
Good advice.
I recently bought a new carbon disc bike. $2100. Full mech Ultegra. Same bike Di2 105 was $600 more. Just an incredible deal for smooth shifting, durable, classic and easy to maintain drivetrain. Would I like di2? Sure. But with this deal I’ll save the money.
Di2 105 over mech ultegra. $600 ? You gotta go di2.
@@royanderson3478 why? It is heavier, less premium feel, not cassette except 11-34... and mech Ultegra works flawlessly
I embraced hydrolic disc brakes, but so far, I've resisted electronic shifting and the move to proprietary parts with fully integrated cables and hoses. Wanted a new bike so i got a modern steel Fairlight Strael v3 in mechanical 11 speed Ultegra. All cables and hoses routed externally, threaded BB, and standard bar, stem and seatpost. Couldn't be happier and if something breaks i can easily fix it myself with minimal fuss or cost.
Interestingly I've noticed some online articles and videos recently promoting the benefits of good old fashioned friction shifting. Generally i do wonder if there’s a growing movement to keep bikes as simple as possible and definitely a feeling that things have got way too expensive for what should be a simple and eco friendly machine.
I love your viewpoint !
After spending nearly 3 years on my 1st internally routed all-road bike (Trek Checkpoint), it felt so good ordering a Lynskey Titanium frameset with external routing and threaded bottom bracket. Can't wait to build it with my existing hodgepodge mechanical groupset of Gevenalle/Microshift shifters, Ultegra FD (Friction shifted!) & GRX RD.
@@swray2112 Adam from Zero Friction Cycling here on TH-cam criticized me for mentioning that I did a lot of ultrasonic bicycle component cleaning during COVID 19 . He saw it as a threat to their business thinking that I am nearby when I am in another part of Australia to him . I have a friend with a litespeed which was interesting to try some years ago . Adam has been known to speak inappropriately in his video clips at times . I have watched all those he has published over a few weeks . He means well but gets too carried away at times .
@@robertmcfadyen9156apparently he had a beef with Durian too
The return to simpler cycling, I agree, it's a thing. You should check this guy out, if you haven't already - www.youtube.com/@PathLessPedaledTV
There is a third option: the so called non-existing shifting. It's even faster than electronic shifting, no cables, charging, internal routing etc. needed. It's a marvelous system. Some also know it as the "single speed or fixed gear system"
Electronic + Wireless like what you get with SRAM on a Triathlon Rig is a game changer where you can have multiple points to have gear changers to maintain your position.
I have a Shimano 11 speed. electronic switching. I recently switched to this type of switching. But I can say that compared to the mechanics, the electronic group works clearly. For me, the difference is palpable. The only minus of this system is the price.
Before I even watch the vid im going to say, although I really liked the mech groupset I had,,, I LOVE the electronic groupset I now have.
Haha.... And what do you want to add, now you've watched it?
@@ribblevalleycyclist Ill add I totally agree with all of your pros and cons, im very particular about the way I keep my bikes, they are ALWAYS impeccably spotless because I love tinkering with them and I love the tech side of things. Im not a cafe cruiser and for me Its about the performance as I try to squeeze every second out of my ride because thats what I love, (when I ride with my wife I take it easy soak up the scenery) so for me I would never go back, I LOVE Di2.
You dont need it, the money hurts, the conversion is fun, the riding is even more fun.
I bought an electronic rear derailleur (SRAM GX AXS) for my MTB. It’s works well and is solid enough, but… if you aren’t diligent, you can forget to charge or lose a battery. Then you’re screwed on a ride. The contacts springs on my derailleur failed and wouldn’t connect with the battery, creating problems on a ride. They warrantied the derailleur, but I wasn’t comfortable with the cons vs the pros. If you break the derailleur, it’s about $500 min to replace. I do love how it cleans up the bike and simplifies it (less cables, easy to remove and clean).
I went back to mechanical and used Shimano SLX on my new bike. I don’t miss electronic. Rest assured, electronic is mostly about making much larger margins for the brands. Less about being that much better.
Great discussion, thank you ! You slipped it a comment that may have gone past more then a few people, "if you are racing"... are you consistently operating at the top end of your fitness range and competing, you will want every available advantage, in that case, electronics and discs might be down your alley. Been on a bike and racing since the mid 70's, the technology back then obviously was very rudimentary, I remember seeing the first Regina 6 speed block and being excited. Everyone rode 531C frames and Campy, that's all there was to be. proper cyclist.
STI changed everything, before that the phenomena of Look clip less pedals, I was first off the rank with both, what they did for my racing was amazing, out of the saddle and shifting... yow
I've stayed with mechanical all this time, although I switched back to Campagnolo when Ergopower came out.
I stopped racing ten years ago, I still train hard and put in the kms, but have yet to fins a substantial reason as to why electric shift would be of benefit to me now, I just don't need it.... I did, road test a top of the range Cervelo not that long ago with the SRAM group, tubeless tyres and all that palaver.... you know, it was okay.. nothing there to justify the eye watering price of either the complete bike, or the group. where I live, in Chiang Mai, has a robust and very active cycling community full of young turks, some very very good, who like to have their S Works, Pinarellos and Cervelos, with disc brakes and full Di2. And of course, the correct shoes and clothing.
I'm digressing but the only real point is that, to me, my 11 speed Campy Chorus mechanical group works a treat, I can fix it myself if needed, rebuilding the shifters is easy, I have never yet been stuck out in the sticks praying for a phone signal ... Cheers, mate
Great read, Steve, thank you. Out of the saddle, and shifting...... You crazy kid 😉. As a lover og great engineering, Campagnolo is a beautiful thing. As I've said in other moments here, few 'Modern' cyclists know of the quality and simplicity that Campagnolo gives. One day I'll build up an old steel Pinarello, and fit it out with an old Campagnolo Record groupo.
@@ribblevalleycyclist a nice Columbus frame, beautiful...
As I write this comment, I'm sitting at 11 22 in time in the video . Had this thought that I've learned more from this video that you made. Then I have in years and years of watching GCN. I'm just saying great job make more 🤯.
Thank you, Justin.
Had to watch the video at 11:22, just to see where you were when you came to this conclusion!!
Don't tell Simon or Ollie at GCN, they'll be most upset 🤣
Only Di2 was considered in this video, and some negatives were ''cables disconnecting", "cables hitting tire and wearing", and "battery going flat". AXS doesn't suffer those issues (well, SRAM batteries can go flat too, but you normally have two on the bike, so the limp in the limp-home is much less severe). Despite that, I actually have an AXS bike and a mechanical bike, and I like both equally.
Yeah, guilty as charged. Didn’t discuss wireless shifting 😬
Just watch out for tab breakage on your batteries. I've seen a handful of broken tabs.
I like my axs X0 on my eMTB and yes, I had a purely mechanical shifting previously over 50 years, but with the new pod, I shift even more relaxed 🙂
Do i need di2...no, do I want di2..... yes
Funny you should say that, that was supposed to be my closing line.... but I forgot 🤣
Do I need DI2 NO, do I want it.. NO
I'm a shimano fan boy, but man I'm tempted by wireless shifting.
Ain’t that always the case 😅
@@howarddavies136 go for it. 😊
I used the old version of sram red etap wireless and I loved it actually. Very crisp in shifting and quick.
Lag
Nice to see you’re back 😊
Eyup! LDC. Hope you're well mate. Like is just getting in the way at the moment, struggling to find time to film. See you had a crack at Great Dun Fell the other day..... Nice one!
@@ribblevalleycyclist had a binge watch of your 3 videos last night spot on mate 😊
Great advice - thank you!
I did Unbound 200 last year on my first Di2 bike and it was an amazing decision for many reasons - particularly hand fatigue!
One thing I've learned from this video is that hand fatigue is a big issue for long rides that electronic overcomes.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I don't know how anyone can say you get hand fatigue from shifting. I can shift with barely any force with my pinky. I've tried it multiple times. I have ultegra 11spd. If it hurts your hand to shift a road bike, you are insanely frail and need to take some testosterone or something.
@@Silidons91Rubbish. My left wrist totally disagrees. Especially in the winter and especially when you do a lot of big-small-big chainrings shifting. No mech grouppo works as good as the Di2
P.S. I REALLY want to see a vid of you shifting small->big chainrings on a mech Ultegra using your pinky only. 😂
Hell yeah, night and day difference.
@@Silidons91 Try doing a 12+ hour gravel race in the rolling Flint Hills of Kansas on mechanical shifting…I promise you’ll get some hand fatigue lol.
I saw no purpose for electronic shifting until I got a bike that came with it. Now that I use it, I absolutely love it. Effortlessly shifting, no missed shifts, no adjusting. Would not want to go back to mechanical.
get a Life.Mate.
Here's another hit for electric shifting:. My buddy was on his backup bike...He forgot to unplug his di2 when taking his other bike out of the van and that wrecked his rear derailleur. No longer able to charge it so it had to be replaced. He had to take the bike 70miles to the shop and they kept it while waiting for a replacement. 10 days later and another 70 miles, plus $500+ for the part.
Not a thing with mechanical systems
Ouch! It’s one of the worst things to damage on an electric system. Some of the SRAM ones are even more expensive
Fantastic explanation, very helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
If you choose a SRAM electronic group set you could very easily change the batteries when they are worn out and if one battery goes dry during your ride you can change it with the other battery and still be able to change your rear gears and you can take the batteries of and charge them inside.
Agreed, the SRAM battery setup is slick
I’ve got both and to the average rider I’d say don’t bother mechanical works and is more reliable. It’s a solution to a problem that never existed
Ain't gonna argue with that!
Absolutely agree with that!
I’m a di2 convert. It’s just great. Really is. I won’t be going back. Not sure why anyone would think a 1500 mile charge cycle would be a problem. Love the full synchro shifting. 👌🏻
With you there, Mendip, I love it too. Saying that though, the mechanical on my gravel is a good solution too.
It is worth it. Let’s embrace the goodness of new technology.
I was agains electronic systems until I try it and I love it. Now I want it in all my bikes.
Most people are against it...... until they try it!
I have a red etap 22 on my Cannondale. The Problem is the battery. The Sram shifting is much more intuitive than Shimano and you cannot mistake. And in the winter battery will got empty earlier. The Ultegra 8000 was the best Groupset I ever had.
Normally you can swap the front battery to the rear, as front derailer battery tend preserve more juice because rear derailer gets used more often when riding.
you can set up di2 to shift like etap.
Yes I did that a few times, I heard with DI2 that is not possible@@carlos_chen
Yes but the batteries are cheaper for Sram etap axs and it’s so easy to check your battery status just press the button on each derailleur if it’s a solid green light your good to go if it flashes red charge the battery it’s not difficult to do that the day before each ride is it?
Yes, absolutely right!@@MrChippiechappie
You’re the first person I’ve seen explaining properly how electronic shifting works. Thanks. I’ll stick with mechanical , for now, though
Glad you found it useful. Stick with your mechanical for as long as you can, it's a great system.
Thanks for watching.
Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclist I had a derailleur failure, on my old Tiagra last year. Awkward as it’s different pull ratios from the newer Tiagra, but my local bike shop replaced it with an old 10 speed Ultegra derailleur they had left over from someone’s bike upgrade. Absolute bargain price and shifts better than ever. That would never happen with electronic!
What a great channel, I thought your video explanation was perfect, thank you! I still use mechanical groupsets for my training and race (sportive) bikes and I have been riding seriously for over 30 years, so I am unlikely to change now. But I also have an ebike for riding around London and this has disc brakes and Di2 Alfine hub gears and is an absolute joy to ride. Almost no maintenance and superb braking on a heavy bike. What I really like is that I can stop at a traffic light and shift to 1st gear when stationary and the display shows me which gear I'm in.
Hi Richard,
Glad you're enjoying the content.
I rode an e-bike once with a similar hub..... what an amazing bit of kit. I had it in the workshop for repair, it was the mechanical (non Di2) version. Getting the back wheel off wasn't fun, I can tell you 🤣
Great video! Love all your output…. Very easy to understand! Thanks!
Great to hear, and glad you enjoyed it 👍
Call me old school, bit i still prefer the mechanical setup. It works absolutely great. If its not broken what is there to fix? This electrification technology lost its appeal for me. I'm starting to feel like its being forced down my throat.
Same here. I like the physical feedback of the mechanical shifters. That clunk of well adjusted and index drivetrain gives a satisfying pleasure. Then again, people like me like to tinker on my own bike and don't mind some dirty fingers. I love to fine tune my bike and indexing of the rear derailleur is always fun.
Electronic shifting is a fantastic technology, and technically is shifts better. However, there is something strangely satisfying about lacing the cables of a mechanical setup through your frame, and then fine-tuning your machine. Peddling along sunny country lanes, and clicking that shifter.
I'm glad I'm lucky enough to enjoy both.
Thanks for watching,
Jon
SRAM Rival is my setup. The biggest help I've had with it that I didn't anticpate, was the rear being totally wireless makes it really easy to remove the mech when I pack my bike for travel.
Good point.
Its no advantage over di2… you just unplug the RD and remove it
You've also got to remove the battery for Di2 to fly.... so its more intensive work.@@thedownunderverse
@@stuartfrancis519 might depend on where u are? Google tells me TSA doesn’t require it
WOOW FANTASTIC! GREAT JOB MAN!
Cheers, Gheorghe, glad you liked it 👍
Thankyou for info
I run a mix of Rival (FD), Red (RD), and Force (Shifters). Incredible difference to my experience with mechanical over the years. Shifts flawlessly every time. Perfect too if you’re not comfortable servicing gear cables and making adjustments on a regular basis. Very reliable so far and the battery lasts a long time.
I've ridden both SRAM and Shimano for years. I wouldn't describe SRAM shifting as flawless. In races you're always missing shifts or shifting too far. Shifting up the cassette is like an old school friction shifter with sram.
just no dude. @@aaron___6014
Great video, thanks. Far better than the GCN tech coverage of the same subject. However... two things really. 1) Cost. At £750 more than mechanical, for bikes under £3K that most of us ride, it is going to mean significantly poorer components elsewhere, where it matters more: frame, wheels. 2) Complexity and Reliability. Less complex is better (always) - and simplicity is the essence of bicycle design. More complexity = less reliability (always). electronics anywhere on a bicycle is less reliable in the long term - so I don't agree with you on this. Over several years of riding in all weathers water gets in to Di2 connections and components, and then they die, usually suddenly, and you need new ones = complex and £big. On a mechanical the shifting gets gradually worse, so you notice and you put in new inner cables = easy and £small. Over recent years watching/riding/supporting the Fred Whitton I have seen loads more DNF than previously - almost all due to Di2 failures and not flat batteries either.
These are all valid points you bring, Robin. I too worry about electronic in poor weather, thats why I only use it on my summer/fine bike. For gravel, training, touring, workhorse, cargo, I use mechanical.
Fred Whitton.... Only ever done it once, that is where that photo was taken, as I'm sure you worked out.
Just got a new (used) bike with di2. The shifting is incredible.
It's a game changer, thats for sure.
Electronic shifting is well worth it.........If you race as a Category 1-2, or even as a Cat 3. If you don't race in the upper categories, it's just an ego thing.
Problem is that if you want mechanical shifting, what and where can you get it. I feel the same way about disc brakes and hidden cables.
A well set up and maintained 105 11s works flawlessly. The main problem is the drive to internal cables leaving a tortuous route from shifter to mech that just adds resistance and inaccuracies develop. I'm even using TRP compressionless cables and TRP Spyre brakes and they work perfectly too.
There is one situation whereby I could give SRAM kudos and that's for going wireless, and the ability to mix and match road STI's with MTB derailleurs so if you want to tune your gearing for where you live it's simple, no silly long b-screws and mech extenders and all those bodges...
You get my vote, Barry. Not gonna disagree with a single point you make there. 105, still a fantastic bit of kit, and you'll find 3 bikes in my stable running it.
I love the way my dura ace mechanical makes a reassuring little clunk and bang in gear every time.
"Does it make your life easier?" Was pretty much all I needed to hear! 😆 (I already migrated half of my bikes to SRAM Eagle AXS anyway, but still nice to hear it should stay easier, because everything always works fine when new. 😉)
Easy life is a good life 🤣
Been riding close to 40 years now. I can't recall once having a shift cable fail during a ride. I have an Ultegra DI2, a Sram Red 10 speed, and a Campy Chorus 12 speed. The old Sram Red sucks. It has never shifted to my satisfaction. The DI2 is without complaint. But the Chorus 12 is by far my favorite. Each shift is crisp. I change gears under full pressure without problems. I love the range of gears. I even run an FSA crank with 54/34. The whole setup cost me 1/2 of any 12 speed electronic set would have cost. Ultimately the real question is which setup makes you faster and happier? Personally I feel faster and happier having more money in my pocket to buy additional speed or those super expensive nutrition bars and energy gels.
Solid points!
The fun part is they are slowly phasing out mechnical shifting in general. Any quality bike a step up from the lowest tier now seem to have a price spike due to e-shifters
I'm pretty sure there will come a day where all we get is electronic and you have to pay premium for mechanical. Or Campagnolo will say "fuck it" and be the only one running full mechanical in the future for all the purists :D
I've got Sram etap, had it amazingly 5yrs, I got it as I really wanted it then, I love the logical left easy right hard aspect of shifting. Whereas di2 keeps the mechanical aspect; right rear up and down the back gears and left front gears - for me, the Sram stuff is better. I'm still getting a month out of it and even I'm amazed, still at every shift, tho it's reduced but theirs nothing like it 👌
I have a mix, so I just program the Di2 bikes to shift Sram-like. Of course, the FD is a bit different and occasionally catches me out when I try to double click on the Di2.
Absolutely worth every penny. On my 22 day tour. I was the only one with ZERO mechanical issues. And yes, poor shifting and broken shifter cables were seen in other traditional bikes.
It's interesting how this video had divided opinion! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Anthony 👍
I was actually dismissing electronic shifting as a gimmick. After seeing all the advantages here, I am starting saving up for one. Even though it's a lot of money extra, I think it's worth it, when you get older like me with a little arthritis.
I’ve ridden DI2 for the last few years alongside Dura Ace 9100 mechanical.
I tended to choose the mechanical bike as I prefer the ergonomics of the hoods and the gear changes are just as smooth.
I’ve now sold both DI2 bikes and have gone mechanical on all my bikes.
Gear cables with a modern group set are totally reliable and never need adjustment.
There is no worry about electronics packing up like a Dura Ace lever did on me.
The amount of times I’ve been on group rides and someone’s battery goes flat, it last happened last weekend.
Yep, I've been on a few club rides, and the Di2 Demon has struck.
All good points you make. Thanks, 👍
Di2 fails. Fact and it's not just battery
I ride a bike with downtime shifters and recently got a chance to ride a bike with ultegra mechanical, during a fast group ride, and I have to say the smoother shifting ability definitely makes me faster!
Agreed. STI shifting was a game changer. It won races, fact!
@@ribblevalleycyclist Campy Ergo Power did too! Recall there was also indexed downtube shifters for years before they reach the brake levers.
It was all about the timing, stability and control differences from moving the hand, looking down or feeling the downtube shifters. From integrated brake-shifters, you have instant dumping of gears in mid sprint while having full control (even when braking) of the bike. No looking down or fumbling tight in a pack, following a wheel. That made a difference to how sprints were won.
As a bike mechanic, I can tell you my main problem with electronic groupsets is availability, and maintain ability. Why make something but not make enough replacement parts. And the comparability!! It’s electronic they should all be compatible. You should be able to use Ultegra 10 speed Di2 FD with the latest ultegra groupset it’s just a solenoid!!! Their software is crap…
Stock is a continual issue.
I love the feel of Mechanical shifting. its satisfying.
You shouldn’t have a problem shifting with mechanical if it’s set up properly. I really struggle to see how the price can be justified for most recreational cyclists to upgrade to electronic…ultimately the differences are minor - in my opinion unless you’re into Racing. I think it’s an outrage to see manufacturers designing out mechanical just to push the sale of the newest tech, and they say consumer is king ?😂
the ultegra drive train on my madone 5.2 has always been flawless, zero issues of any kind
My first electronic group set is Ultegra 11 speed Di2 on my 2022 bmc road machine. First road bike with discs and just love them both. Very rare does my campy 10 speed record mech equipped Ti bike get an outing these days. I keep the mech set in very good condition, recently replaced the cables etc, however the electronic set is just crisper, no hassles with the front derailleur, and over all I just prefer the feel of the shifts. I am 68, so have had a few group sets in my time . Each to their own though
Tired of British people online telling me how to ride a bike. Sure they speak English but as a country they don’t have the depth in road racing despite wiggins/half froome.
This guy does. He makes the best argument and hits all the pertinent points. One of the better Brits online that I’ve seen.
If you have a Tri-Rig there’s nothing like going electric with remote shift buttons, keeping your hands and aero position in place and that smooth shifting. Probably the best application for Electric.
Good point 👍
Long live mechanical shifting and rim brakes! Electronics are expensive. Also, it transforms bikes into electronic gadgets that go into the bin like a phone, rather than a life-long love affair.
That was the plan... obsolescence and proprietary components. To get people, every few years to buy more bikes and gear. I'm still rolling Campy Record Ergo Power from '93 that I can still get every single part for.
That is very true, it would potentially harm the close bond between me and my bicycle. What exactly is wrong with some components being slightly temperamental if it keeps you on your toes and tests your metal, am I able to lift my backside out the saddle and glide up this incline or not, gives the ride a bit of edge.
Mechanical all the way for me too. Rohloff and rim brakes! Viva!
I was offered Di2 for my 2020 Cannondale CAAD 13. I said no. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I love my Shimano Ultegra 11spd mechanical. It shifts flawlessly.
It’s why I ride a single speed, bike with no suspension, why complicate cycling?. I also only drive a manual transmission car, with a carburetor and no radio, who needs those kinds of frills?
Glad to have found you, and after watching your video ,I will be stopping with my 10s 105 group set, simple to fix , cheap to repair and easy live with.
And that Paul, is exactly why I make these videos. The idea is to tell you what you need to know, and for you to make your own mind up.
Thanks, appreciate it 👍
Well done video. I was thinking about electronic shifting but you've convinced me that it really is;nt worth it in my case.
I've had a few companions whose battery died on a ride and it was a disappointment for them.
A well tuned and cleaned mech system is what I'm sticking with.
Thanks for a well balanced explanation.
Glad it was useful. Agreed, a well maintained groupset is a great solution to a simple problem 👍
I have arthritis in my hands and installing DI2 made cycling fun again.
And for that reason alone, it's a great system. Glad you're enjoying your cycling again.
I have Di2 since 2015 and I personally love it. Yes it can have small issues and can be mare for people new to it when these issues arrive. I do love that you can interchange Dura Ace, Ultegra, XTR, XT and GRX (talking 11 speed), to make you perfect set up. For example, on my road bike, I use the XT display. This shows my gear and battery status, so avoids and power issues. It also doubles up as the Wireless sender and junction port. Shame this is not on 12 speed as yet, so will stick with 11 in the meanwhile. I agree not cheap, but not changing now.
I must admit, Darren, I love it too. This video sure has divided opinions!
Regarding the Di2 battery dying, can't it warn you on your head unit (Garmin, etc.) when the battery drops below say 20%? Surely if one can afford an electronic groupset, they can also afford a bike computer 🙂
Hi,
Yes, it can. I’ve done a video on it. Here you go:
Shimano Di2 Wireless Bluetooth E-Tube Adaptor - Worth it? - Bike Maintenance
th-cam.com/video/AOWE6V5WAUM/w-d-xo.html
Campa EPS warns you when your battery is low through the Garmin head unit.
Nice explanation! 👌🏼
Glad you liked it!
Excellent Video matte. Spot on about the balance, not favoring at all. Cheers from Brazil!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. And hello from England 👍
Honestly like, I had just started getting into road biking after mountain biking for several years and I got a rival axs, best choice I could’ve made. Small things like where I lay my hands my body position just having a high quality hood, not to mention the really good experience. Even as a beginner electric shifting can accelerate your progression like crazy, I would Absolutley upgrade to electronic you had the option
Do you find the Rival hoods slippery? I went from Force to Rival (bought a new bike and having swapped components yet) and these hoods are hella slippery when sweating. I’ve actually bought a pair of gloves, which I typically don’t use
@@HoldenDoesBikeStuff that’s odd cause I find some of the force hoods that I’ve tried are a little more slick than my rival ones lol. I can’t say they’re sloppy for me but that could just be the way that I’m holding them, I hardly ever grab them straight on I’m always either on the drops or in an aero position arms on the bars kind of thing
I will switch to electronic once it will become cheaper than mechanical. And trust me, it will.
Currently it looks like the levers themselves are only slightly more expensive, but then the electronic shifters are signicantly more expensive.
In order to fully reap the benefits of electronic it needs to be fully wieless! No half measures like the cables that you still need to run from shifters into the battery. So, in summary, we just need to wait a little longer, it is not the time yet.
SRAM somehow, has the patent on wireless, so until the patent runs out, Shimano licenses the patent (not likely) or figure a cleaver way around it, Shimano electronic users are stuck with wires for the foreseeable future. Shimano, although still selling the 11 speed 105 mechanical for the time being, quit offering anything but DI2 with everything 12 speed. So it's not a question of when it will become cheaper, as it will be the only game in town for higher end users. Although it's been their practice to discount groupsets when a newer version comes out, other than that I don't see them reducing prices. Take a look at when the CD came out as an example. Not counting R&D, the audio CD was a mere fraction of the cost to make than the audio cassette, but because it was a newer and better technology, the price of an album went up roughly 60-70%. It never really went down. It takes significantly more tooling & precision to manufacture mechanical groupsets, especially the shifters, than electronic, just as the audio cassette. Stake holders in companies won't allow huge savings to be passed on to consumers, when it can become extra profit. Personally, I'm rooting for underdogs like Microshift, to clean their clocks, with great value & performing mechanical groupsets, which mostly depends on bike companies equipping new bikes with their products. So far Advent X is showing up on quite a few new bikes. Of course with huge profit margins of SRAM & Shimano, the can HEAVILY discount components to bike makers, so it will be an uphill battle.
I never trust anyone who says "trust me".
@@GoustiFruit Good for you.
@@swray2112 This is another idea that I forgot to mention: mechanical includes more value (labour) by default, so should be cheaper by defintion, this the main reason I think eventually mechanical will be more expenisve and reserved for just mechanical shifting and retro bikes enthusiasts... but Shimano and SRAM are milking the cyclists as much as they can with cheap to produce electronic shifting. Capitalism in action.
It will NEVER become cheaper than mechanical. You're going to be waiting a long time.
I live in the hills and being able to shift in any position is awesome. Yes, keep it clean, but that goes for anything. I assume most have lights, radar, etc. Charging derailleur batteries is an afterthought. I have Sram Rival AXS. You can still ride hours after the light on the derailleur goes from green to amber.