As I've commented before I've had 6, yes 6, electric cars and none caught fire so I'm an insufferable expert when it comes to evs...admittedly they were slot cars and I was 8 at the time.
😂🤣😂 you’re lucky my first slot car set was made by Lesley I had in the 60s had long springs that you inclosed in the track and you stuck little spikes to the bottom of your matchbox cars and was driven by 2 little cogs and motors. Oh how times have changed.
Car markers worked out years ago in ICEVs that the engine could catch fire, so there's a wall to protect the passengers from the engine, called, get this, a firewall. But EVs now, "hey, let's put the part that is the potentially hot, firey, poision thing, in with the passengers." 🤔
It was only Chrysler and Kia that decided that. The CEOs of Toyota, Honda and Mazda all got fired earlier this year for saying EVs made no sense then Stellantis got $15 billion from governments in Canada to build a $500 million EV battery plant and 2 months later Tavares, Stellantis' CEO, came out and said EV can't be made and they wont make them (cost, electricity and minerals shortage). Bloody hell. What a clown show.
@@bunsw2070 Your statement about the Japanese manufacturers is not true. Toyota has been saying that for years and keeps saying it up to today. If I remember correctly they re-stated the same last week. Akio Toyoda switched roles (due to his age, he's 67 and it was planned to be that way) and is no longer the CEO and president of the company, but a chairman of the board
@ALIENdrifter66 Toyota has indeed been the outlier that has been prepared to resist (albeit quietly) the immense international governmental pressure, and do the minimum in the direction of EVs, while waiting for common sense to prevail, thus protecting its shareholders from the worst of the losses that other car marques are making. It has my respect for that.
@@phillipbanes5484 Toyota is not against “EVs” per se. They are against Lithium Ion batteries as a power source. They believe something like solid hydrogen fuel is the answer as lithium is neither safe enough, cheap enough, or lasts long enough for a legitimate power plant.
Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The data (FACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE) found that: - hybrid vehicles had the most fires, 3474.5 per 100,000 cars - There were 1529.9 fires per 100,000 for gasoline (petrol) vehicles - and just 25.1 fires per 100,000 cars for pure BEV electric vehicles. So... - a HYBRID is about one hundred and fifty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV - a PETROL car is about sixty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV.
@@irvinewayne4086 "large large" margin? You mean, the atmosphere which is essentially unlimited oxidizer and is separated from the fuel by 14 guage mild steel?
I had an EV that caught fire. It was a Scalextric mini cooper on a track that, at age 9, I wired straight to the mains bypassing the step down transformer so going from maybe .5 to 13 amps and 10 volts to 240, to make it faster obviously. The car exploded, flew across the room, when I put it on the track and fused the consumer unit of the pub my parents ran at the time. As you can imagine my father took this extremely poorly and exploded himself. How I didn’t die from electrocution or my father’s rage is down to sheer dumb luck. I learned that day that EVs and idiots should never mix.
Oil companies are starting to invest in "green technology", because they see the writing on the wall not differently than anyone else. It's all government enforced and subsidized, so they're getting in on the "goodies" too. Gasoline is better, safer, more reliable and probably not less green than ev tech, but if the government is going to punish for it, then it makes sense to go with the flow.
Well, until the advent of lithium based batteries, lead/acid cells were the provider of emf for EVs. I remember seeing a 1920s vintage Lindberg electric car (think model A touring sedan) at a car meet in the 80s. Around a decade later a local had a kei sized van that was electric. I worked (in the early 00s) in a warehouse that used a stock picker with a lead/acid battery about the size of a spinet piano (it had to weigh a ton or 2). Nobody "hid the technology" (golf carts), it just wasn't practical for the majority of highway users in the real world.
Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The data (FACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE) found that: - hybrid vehicles had the most fires, 3474.5 per 100,000 cars - There were 1529.9 fires per 100,000 for gasoline (petrol) vehicles - and just 25.1 fires per 100,000 cars for pure BEV electric vehicles. So... - a HYBRID is about one hundred and fifty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV - a PETROL car is about sixty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV.
@@max-kew-4269 John has mentioned that EVs don't catch fire as often as ICE vehicles, but when they do, the results could be catastrophic. I'm looking to purchase an EV for my next car, but would like to wait until some new non-flammable battery chemistry is available.
You know what is really crazy none of these people see all of these fires and explosions where nobody has gotten hurt as warnings. They are looking at it as conclusive evidence that since nobody got hurt that the technology is safe. They are looking at the rest of us who are trying to sound the alarm and saying "We need to wait until at least a good handful of children and adults that we care about have died before we think it's a problem"
That's how we roll here in the good ol' US of Eh . . . I'll give you one example from the outdoor power equipment world. You know that really annoying feature on riding mowers that doesn't let you mow while in reverse unless you push a button? It's called RIO - Reverse Implement Option. It was developed because people accidently ran over toddlers while mowing backwards. At any rate, legislation to make that technology a law first hit congress in 1975. Guess when it was finally implemented? 2005. It only took THIRTY YEARS!!!
To be fair... ICE vehicles were the same. Chevy/GM in particular knew about the faulty ignitions that would cut the engine when driving that they had in multiple models over 20+ years and decided paying out the inevitable lawsuits was cheaper than fixing the problem. It's not just an EV problem, basically all large corporations will look at potential issues, cost to fix them and the approximate cost if they don't and eventually get sued and go with whatever they think will give them the most profit.
You need the correct fuel to air ratio to ignite gasoline. If the gas tank isn't leaking gasoline outside the vehicle it's difficult to ignite the fuel. Batteries have a similar situation. They need a certain amount of charge to keep the fire going. However some major differences occur between gasoline and batteries. Gasoline cars have a fuel pump that is needed to push the fuel out of the gas tank so if the car isnt' operational the tank needs to be breached to literally add more fuel to the fire or air to the fuel. Batteries on the other hand need to be kept fairly charged when not driving as charging can be time consuming and you can't just stop and fill them back up in 3 minutes. Charged batteries are much more likely to catch fire or stay on fire than half charged batteries. Batteries generate heat while charging as well as discharging the battery. So charging at home is just as dangerous as driving on the roads. As batteries charge resistance increases as the batteries become more charged. More resistance equals more heat so the temperature of a battery will increase as it's charged. most chargers will slow the rate of charge as the battery nears 100% to reduce the chance heat from charging will damage the battery. also one of the reasons dealers want to talk about the 80% charge times, charging to 80% is only about half the time of charging to 100%.
After a few years in NSW Bushfire Brigade, I can tell you I have never seen a tank explode (or found one exploded). Never been called to a car fire on the road (called to many in the bush, all deliberate) and have seen only one car fire on the road in the last 40 years. Have heard of a few car fries on the news untill the last couple of years, and then they were all electric.. I would love to k now were the EV supporters get their facts from as to fire frequencies
And now, a company called Silence have brought a small EV to the market with two detachable 5.6 kWh batteries that you can charge in your home overnight. What could possibly go wrong?
No batteries in the home! I have a little shed in the back yard, ALL my batteries are charged out there. I do like the little Silence car, maybe battery ejection system should be fitted
As a resident of Franklin, Michigan, USA - not far from the actually rather boring suburb of Troy itself - and also a mechanical engineer and lifelong car nut - I must inform you I so enjoyed the segment that introduced Capt. Patrick Durham and which then attempted to provide some, shall we say, atmospherics about the area and the man - I nearly spewed my beer out with laughter. While your geographic description may be slightly off - Big Beaver is actually a road and not a "place" per se - this matters not at all. (Coincidentally, the exit off of I-75 onto Big Beaver is #69 - yes it is true.) I think everyone here greatly appreciates not only your automotive technical experience and engineering-based common sense and insight, but also the sheer immensity of dry comedic talent you posses. As a 30+ year automotive engineering veteran and consultant - and now having worked with BEVs now for some time, I am frankly appalled at what appears to be a historically unparalleled exercise in mass insanity. All the best from the USA, and Detroit (Yes, that means the suburbs too.)
My list of regs is growing. Thanks for posting this one! NHTSA and EPA, Here is a list of things that need to be regulated to guide the development/deployment of EVs & Hybrid vehicles. You NEED to regulate this list otherwise the deployment WILL lead to an unsafe vehicles and/or an ecological disaster. #1 Charging plug in cable should be standard across all EVs (number and layout and size of pins, function of each pin, voltage and polarity etc.) similar to the gasoline pump cable that fits into all ICE vehicles. Would prevent pin damage, sparks, smoke, damage to charger and/or vehicle if each manufacturer did this differently. NACS? #2 The high current contactors and associated electronics should be removeable for repair or replacement without having to remove/drop the high voltage high current propulsion battery from the vehicle. Labor/time for this HCC&AE removal should be
giggle giggle - must have spent a months-worth of your brain power to come up with that. Two words for you - "Luton Airport" or maybe "Fremantle Highway" - fires caused by diesel and petrol.
The very next you tube advert immediately after JC's vid. was for the all-electric Jeep Avenger used off-road with the by-line "escape to the real world". No kidding. Gotta love the sense of humour those algorithms have, eh?
Having dead shorted the traditional lead acid battery under the back seat of my Mini, and saw how quickly it boiled acid fumes into the car, this is very scary. Luckily my car had no windows fitted and no doors, so escaping was easy.
@@rotenone3871 hell no. Ran over a brick outside my garage and pinched the positive lead onto the floor of the car. Old Mini Clubmans had that cable under the floor! 🤔
Mine has LFP batteries and won't suffer thermal runaway. Nothing to do with the planet, I have a superior vehicle that is free to run and cheaper to buy than I was paying for petrol. Enjoy those fuel prices.
Which brings up a good point - what is the lowest-impact means of dealing with your body after you are done with it? Cremation = lots of CO2. Decomposition releases methane, what about the rapid composting options being rolled out now? Now matter how you go, even in death there is no such thing as carbon-neutral.
@@jasonhutcheon5991How much did you waste on the pile of flammable crap initially? Equivalent to a fair few tanks of gas I'll bet. Nothing at all superior about an EV, except the attitide of it's deluded driver.
This goes back at least as far as the 1960 Ford Falcon which used the gas tank as the trunk floor. This design carried on through Mustangs and other small Fords, culminating in the Pinto. Pintos, being hatchbacks, had no "firewall" between the tank and the passenger compartment. Which led to their quickly earned reputation as firebombs for the passengers. Good ideas for saving money never die (just the passengers) so it's not surprising to see this one recycled.
Thanks to your channel John TH-cam recommended Capt. D's channel and I must say he was a great find, he clearly knows his stuff, just like yourself John. It's better than a college degree watching both channels. Keep up the grand work.
@@KubuśpuchatekTVN I know, I watch their videos too, but come to this page for the science facts. Great channels very entertaining stuff. And great banter for dinner parties where guests own EVs
If you want to use the battery case as the EV's floor, it needs to be built to firewall standards. How much thicker the single metal sheet between battery cells and the cabin would need to be to ensure fire and gasses get delayed from breaching the cabin by at least as much as it would by two separate metal layers and ensure any ruptures occur outside will negate most if not all weight savings from deleting the separate floor. With separate battery lid and cabin floor, there is a gap between the two which will insulate the cabin from the battery fire for a while. With a structural battery floor, heat from the battery fire gets conducted directly through the floor. Extra lid thickness may be necessary to slow that down too.
John I watched the firefighters video yesterday and wondered how long before you picked up on it. I have half a dozen EV’s in my street on the Goldy and I’m just waiting for one of them to announce their colourful presence to the locals. I’ve already briefed my wife to make sure she is upwind if the inevitable occurs while she is home.
Hahahahahah ur right if those cars were present, I wonder what brand are these EVs? If similar than u have a case. Otherwise this is like u waiting for a plane to explode and land precisely on your home, the odds are low my freind. Like I said unless it’s some dumb manufacturer each to their own. And please do save my comment and prove me wrong when they do explode. I will be waiting ….
I think I may have the answer , remember the old steam engines that had a separate tender to carry the coal in . Well why not have a trailer at the back of the carry the battery , problem solved . Can you just see all those cars travelling all with their little battery packs , trundling behind. And of course at the first sign of trouble , you will be able to jettison the battery . Obviously that might need some thought , but I’m sure they could sort it out before it hits the market . Ps do you think I should patent my idea 😂
Ever actually towed a trailer? I thought not. Try parallel parking. Backing down a street. Extend your garage 4 meters. 50% fewer parking spaces. Great solutions. Make EVs even LESS attractive!
IIHS website reports that the samples provided are charged enough to be drivable. The same website said that while they segregate crashed BEVs after testing they have never had one catch fire even weeks after test completion. I can see a new BEV specific test: having the belly pan and battery case ripped open by a steel bollard
22:15 Some great research John. A lot of constructive comments in the comments section but as you mentioned it seems everyone has forgotten about the Ford Pinto case in America. As I look into the boot of my 66 Mustang & 65 Holden I am looking at two exposed drop-in fuel tanks used as boot floors which were only separated from the back seat with a cardboard divider. At least Holden had the tank located further forward as part of the parcel shelf. The last of the VZ Monaro's that were exported were mandated by US authorities to have the tank located forward behind the back seat firewall. It simply amazes me that these same US authorities haven't transitioned these regulations to the EV manufacturer's after all the needless deaths that have occurred in the past.
I do remember the Pinto, my Aunt had one. It was still unburnt when she eventually got rid of it. As for why the USA hasn’t done anything about EV’s, check out what the President says about EV’s. He wants ALL new car sales to be EV only within the next 15 or so years. That means the whole administration has bought in to the EV hype and any evidence they are dangerous will be quietly (as quiet as possible) swept under the rug. We are living in a world where if someone in power wants something bad enough, they can find a big enough dirt mound to bury their head in and scream at the top of their lungs “I can’t hear you!”
All it it takes is one incident with a family inside and then A) government goes from EV way of the future to having the cars painted in olive green with health warning on it B) sales for EV tank so hard ,that you couldn’t give away a second hand EV let alone sell a new one. As I said it takes a disaster before the government and motoring bodies take notice.
Have you told the FCAI? Or the electric vehicle council? Because last time I looked they are still pushing for accelerated infrastructure roll out and subsidised uptake
Chevy Bolt burning houses down? That an old one. Hyundai/Kia burning houses down? Not that long ago. Yet still nothing was done except battery recalls and manufacturers telling you to park XX distance away from a building.
But there have been multiple disasters with EVs as the star of the show, the woke green arsehole brigade just gloss over them as being rare and unlikely... 🤔🤪
I guess with that rationale, we would actually take all assault rifles and the ammo they use off the market, But that isn't ever going to happen either.
Exciting lithium powered disassembly aside, I've bought small, powerful OLights for the young ladies in my extended family, and explained how to blind any would be attackers at night, and/or bonk them on the nose. Excellent self defence item, highly recommended.
One fact people never consider, is that a ICE only stores 7% of fuel onboard. The other ~93% is the air itself! Contrast to a EV which must store 100% of its energy needs for any given range onboard. That is a major factor of why EV are so much more dangerous!
Dear Lord J Cadogan, this was a really powerful and well delivered essay. Thank you for introducing Captain Patrick Durham, and his superb channel. As a reformed automotive engineer I used to design petrol and diesel fuel systems. Basic rules apply about likely body structure deformation and likelyhood of fuel system leaks. The BEV set, especially, decided in their arrogance these rules are 'retro' and 'legacy' - which they are, and were hard won. Time the batt centric set woke up.
Somehow I am quite glad that I can't afford any car, let alone an EV. My 1000USD, 200cc Chinese motorcycle has proven more reliable than most cars these days. Simplicity truly is the way, unfortunately this isn't the direction that vehicle manufacturers will take, because money. Also, congrats on the world cup win. Took some courage to say that as a South African.
You are paying for EVs even if you don't buy one. Govt subsides and insurance rates will be tacked on to your voluntary contribution to the utopia the Govt is creating for you.
Thanks for waiting while I watched his video. You were absolutely right. Subscribed. Your video was awesome as usual. Thank You for caring so much about us. Great Respect to You…Dude…
Another good one John, and yes, I've watched a couple of the other guy's videos, quite informative and scary at the same time. However, trying to mitigate the risk of gas etc into the passenger compartment of these EVs with a sealed, thermally insulated floor would add yet more weight and reduce their already meagre range........probably the reason they don't put one there in the first place.
Funny thing is, my motorhome insurance clearly states I cannot carry my electric push bike in the boot/hold, but must be on a rack on the back. That was a new change when I renewed the yearly insurance 3 months ago so I guess they’re now starting to protect themselves too
When lithium power wall batteries were new to Australia, many local councils had requirements that concrete block sheds separate from the house be constructed for the batteries. Suddenly these regulations disappeared and you could put any battery pack directly onto your walls. What happened? The original regulations were correct.
Balance, from one perspective your gas cooker should be in a concrete outbuilding separated from the dwelling, but we all accept that many peoples homes will burn down as on balance thats the trade off we make for convenience.
Twenty five years ago my niece's V8 Wrangler caught fire spontaneously (fuel line broke, it was mainly burnt out). Modern jeeps just following a long tradition. Seen lots of vehicle fires around here lately, curiously mainly Audi's and BMs. Seems they have firey susceptibilities probably all the magnesium alloy. Not yet seen an EV go up yet, but looking forward to it, from all reports it should be a good show.
As an Australian, we thoroughly enjoy anything that can be made into The Big however I'm kinda torn that we don't have Beavers in Australia although the back of The Big Merino does provide much juvenile humor and mirth so thankyou City of Goulburn.
Never thought for one minute that they would be that stupid to make the battery shell from aluminium, but I suppose saving weight would be their main priority rather than puncture protection or as in those cases(no pun intended) melting. Shocking. Great vids as always John.
The issue is that the governments around the world are introducing deadlines for the introduction of all EV whilst knowing full well that the technology that will enable it … doesn’t exist yet. [so the safety of the product is being sacrificed for the benefit of meeting targets] This is a well known tactic that governments do, and in some cases in the past it has proved successful because it was the impossible to meet target that drove the creation of the new technology. [as in that without the target the technology would never have been developed] But … and this is a big BUT, with the motor industry laws and standards have been introduced and evolved over the years by all of the mistakes made along the way to govern and control the safety of vehicles, in the old days no one cared if a car was dangerous, you bought it and took you chances because everyone wanted a car. Decades later there are now safety standards to be met which carry onerous severe penalties if now followed. The problem you have now is that by driving the manufactures with threats and targets they will by default ignore safety standards and do what ever it takes to try and meet the new targets. [we have gone back to the old days of when the modern car was 1st introduced as a mass product.] EVs introduce bespoke hazards into vehicles that have not been an issue before, so are not governed by current safety procedures and standard. the manufacturers know these hazards exist, and when it goes wrong they will claim it is a learning point for the industry and will fall back on the argument of … “oh we didn’t realise how bad this would be, and we only did it because you were forcing us to do it otherwise we would fail your target dates, and there has been no history of these EV hazards before so it’s a learning point for the entire industry” [as in that we are not personally to blame, it is an industry wide problem]
You're doing important work, John. To date you are the only person I have heard advising of just how dangerous the smoke from a lithium battery is, even though it's the most likely cause of exposure for the average person, given the crowds that form around such an event. Sadly there's no way of counting how many people DON'T die because they listen to you.
Is he? he's dishonestly comparing Hybrids and BEV's with a clickbait headline to bait EV haters to generate revenue. None of thees examples are current EVs in Australia with LFP batteries
@jasonhutcheon5991 mate did you even read my comment? I referenced him talking about how dangerous various lithium based batteries can be when they enter thermal runaway and off gas. Nothing about comparing different technologies, nothing about differing drive trains, but making the public aware of hazards you realistically may encounter at the moment surrounding accidents involving this tech. Nobody else is talking about this, and a very large proportion of the general public, as a result, do not realise the smoke and other fallout from such an event is any more dangerous than any other smoke. So I feel he is doing very important work in getting this message out to people, as my comment says.
@@jasonhutcheon5991 FFS, do hybrids not have lithium ion batteries in them too? And, to make things worse, these are only small bombs instead of the full blown bombs in EVs!!
You mention not to use a garden hose to try and put out an ev fire because it won't do much along with exposure to dangerous gases, is there a risk of electrocution with the high voltage architecture they use also. Some of the training packs I have seen for mechanics at trade nights are more about how to safely disconnect and reconnect the battery more than mechanical stuff.
Q: is there a risk of electrocution with the high voltage architecture they use also(?) A: yes, for as you just mentioned it is indeed HIGH VOLTAGE. right, so the idea that's been known since Edison first flipped the switch on the Pearl Street Power Station in NYC on September 4, 1882 that states: "Electricity and Water Don't Mix" still applies, everybody knows this or at least SHOULD know this... hint: it's very important we GET OVER this bullsh!t promoted by Elon and the fanboys that something "magical" is taking place with EV's, and that much of the basic knowledge and common sense Humanity has gained over the last 140 years is now "thrown out the window" (because it isn't out the window).
A battery that big needs a swimming pool to control thermal runaway, so garden hose ain't gonna help. The high voltage is not like powerline, it is not grounded, it is not AC and it's not kilovolts. But don't be poking around because at 200-800 volts any part of your body that connects those is gonna cook.
The Bean Counters who said "Nah, you don't need a floor panel in that, perfectly good place to rest your feet on the battery, might even double [no extra expense] as a foot warmer" were obviously graduates of the NFB course.
After the casual plug for Sexyland an episode or two ago I was wondering where you were going with your advertising of that curious looking torch. Stellantis was just trying to deal cheaply with two EV battery problems, protecting from physical damage and water ingress, both real problems in an off-road vehicle. Speaking of water, lots of people drive Jeeps through fairly deep water so there’s probably a nasty surprise waiting for them too. Maybe they could come up with some plumbing to allow the engine to burn the battery gasses for that one last amazing burst of acceleration…
I view the information provided as a great way to develop a checklist of features required of an EV when the purchase is mandatory. The battery system totally separate from the vehicle occupants is a deal breaker just as the fuel system being separate has been for many years. I am quite happy for the early adopters play crash test dummy on this as there is minimal upside...
Well my Citroën has its fuel tank under the rear seat with direct access to the tank and fuel pump. Similar problem, but I agree the passenger cabin should be isolated from battery's and or fuel tank.
Jeep and Renault are both FCA, which is no longer a US car maker, but instead a Europe-based consortium doing business in the US and elsewhere. Renault has always been a questionable vehicle to start with, but since they bought the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep moniker, they've cheapened it so badly that it will never be the same. These questionable designs are shocking in themselves, but considering the source of the design, all I can do is shake my head and make sure that I give them a wide berth if/when I ever see them on the road or worse, in a parking lot.
In their most recent dependability review, ReliabilityIndex placed Jeep 29th out of 40 manufacturers, with a reliability score of 173. This isn’t that much below the industry average; in fact, it’s similar to the score of brands like Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar and BMW, but it’s still not a great score. That's a good explanation.
Shortly after Chrysler (who own Jeep) bought into Daimler Benz, the satisfaction rating from Mercedes owners fell out of the top ten for the first time ever. Jaguar is also not a shining light of reliability or satisfaction.
@@iffracem I had a cousin many years ago that had an XKE Jag with a V12. I asked him if he ever drove it, he said not any more. He said that some cars nickel and dime you to death, then he said that his jag $10 and $20 dollar you to death, and this was in the early 70s.
I wonder if this might be related to the Rotten Tomatoes movie review site. Turned out they were boosting movie scores for money. MB, Jaquar and BMW have terrible reliability compared to competent car makers like Toyota or any number of Japanese car makers (not Nissan, pure trash).
I recall reading last year that EV manufacturers were using the battery as essentially part of the chassis to save weight. I wonder how many newer EVs are using similar designs...
Remember when LPG vehicles used to catch fire until they were solved. Was before John's time. Barely a whisper mentioned about it now, was an interesting topic in the automotive world years ago.
John, I am glad you decided to look into this channel. Like I said in my previous post when I recommended it, this gives you a different perspective on the issue with EVs. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 He recently uploaded a video of the car industry's move to electronic door lock latch mechanisms. Mechanical locks could be better with the rods and flimsy plastic clips, but they are more likely to work in an emergency. I keep a $6 (USD) welder's chipping hammer in the back pocket of the passenger's backrest. In case I need to escape from my car or break a car window of a vehicle where occupants are trapped in. As an API Inspector, safety is of the utmost importance to me. I am currently working at a petrochemical site, so vapor clouds and dangerous atmospheres, uncontrolled product release (their name for a leak), are a few of the things in the back of my mind when I am out there performing my duties in looking for mechanical integrity issues on both pressure vessels and piping systems.
Yep, saw the StacheD vid when it aired (subscribed) & was blown away by his knowledge and concern for his fellow workers & the public. A stark contrast to the fire department spokesman on-site at the Luton Airport fire who stuck to the lie that it was started by a diesel.
Well, it was started by a diesel, a diesel hybrid and it was the traction battery that started the whole thing. The spokesperson was not lying, exactly. Yes, they are willing to gamble with real lives and play semantics in front of the camera.
@@phillipbanes5484 a lie of omission, easily defended with a simple “I meant to say…”. You always have to try and read between the lines, see what they didn’t say, figure out the scam. Pretty sad world we live on now.
Perhaps this is a way of doing the battery swap thing to speed up charging. If the driver and each passenger has a set of batteries attached to them, and they connect up to the car to power it. If they battery compartment vents to the passenger compartment, you may as well wear the batteries. Each person can be charged individually while they are doing other stuff, like being at work, eating in a resteraunt, watching daytime TV etc etc. Each person then contributes to the cars weight and range. Thus no extra charging time and everytime you swap a passenger you get extra range. Even more effective on a bus😊
Remember the Ford Pinto where the floor of the cargo area was the top sheet of the gasoline tank? I listened to the end, he did remember. I thought we learned this before.
re: "I thought we learned this before." we did, unfortunately most of the generation who knew this have passed away and taken this "sage wisdom" with them to their graves. right, so the people who are alive currently (and dealing with the problem) were basically "born last night" and are therefore "baby young to the world". see we forget there's a reason why the phrase was coined that reads: "A Sucker Is Born Every Minute..."
I love EVs Trains,Buses and trams powered by overhead lines Cities used to be walkable Now people live in suburbs so they can afford car payments to get to work
Actually, people live in suburbs and are willing go work to pay for cars and spend time and money driving so that they don't have to live right beside other people and put up with the crime, filth, and disease of cities.
@@kirkjohnson6638 Oh, Kirk. Mate. Have you seen what 'suburbs' look like nowadays? The only thing difference between living in an inner city apartment and a new suburban development is that you get about 15 square metres of front yard, and the same out the back in the 'burbs. But you can still hear your neighbours fucking or fighting next door because the houses either butt up against each other, or have about a metre separation. And if you think crime, filth and disease are just a city thing, methinks you need to get out more.
Yeah... People definitely live in suburbs so they don't have people living right next to them Housing estates definitely aren't known to be crime ridden hellholes
@@BradGryphonn Well, you don't gave to buy into the suburban slums, now do you? Buy a nice place built in the 60s, 70s, or 80s when you srill got a 1/4 acre lot and buy aomeplace nice and established where your don't have trash neighbors. In any case, it's still infinitely better than beig in a city.
4:20 This O-light is the first I've really been keen on. Not for the faux Gold gimmick, but the multiple lighting options available. I never thought I'd buy an O-Light but this looks interesting.
I was impressed with the Nordic fire fighting video you did a few weeks ago. Now I realize it will only work on maybe only a Renualt Zoe or an EV with a vented floor. Pouring the iced water into the cabin of most EVs will do hardly anything as the battery will continue to heat up.
The problem about the relative number of car fires between ICE and EVs (ie there are more ICE car fires) doesn't take into account that the EV population of vehicles is far younger
500 hectares of multi storey car parks in Melbourne. Each with a population of 80% Electric / Hybrid cars. One gang of determined dudes. Equipped with some Bunsen Burners and the odd axe.... How do you think the Melbourne Fire Brigade will go? Triaging multiple city blocks with residents situated atop 9/11 catastrophes? Who do we save first? What would be the total toll? Dead? Injured? Maimed? How soon would residents and workers regain access to the CBD and surrounding areas? What would the total cost to all affected be? ALSO What would the total tonnage of climate changing gases from the whole boondoggle amount to? Would the venerable IPCC actually be able to measure a temp difference after the event? Would world temperatures go up or down with the destruction of Melbourne?
What a doozie of a question! Ever since Jacinda in N.Z was going to put nappies on cows, I’ve been regularly farting in N.Z s direction since! I don’t seem to be having much effect!
In the UK news today, EV insurance premia up by 72% because they can’t be fixed (or not at any sensible cost). My sister’s BMW EV was written off after a fairly minor ding… now that’s not very green…
My brother has had two cars "written off" because there was a hailstorm and they got a few dings in the roof and bonnet (hood for those of you that don't understand English)
I just listened to a EV site that's talking about EV batteries dying at about 10-15 years, costing $15k-$25k to fix. It seems that the cost savings are significantly over stated. An internal combustion powered vehicle will last 20-30+ years with decent maintenance. I know, that's what I drive. In a couple decades, when ammonia fueled internal combustion vehicles replace many petrochemical fueled combustion vehicles, EVs will fall out of favor. The exploding seats might be a mob hit option, but that would be on Cadillac or luxury cars, not Jeeps.
Shouldn't there also be a ventilated space between battery and car floor. Not only to let fumes escape but also to cool the battery and make thermal runaway less likely in the first place?
As I've commented before I've had 6, yes 6, electric cars and none caught fire so I'm an insufferable expert when it comes to evs...admittedly they were slot cars and I was 8 at the time.
🤣🤣🤣 Me too, And not a lithium ion battery in sight! Whoo Hoo!
😂🤣😂 you’re lucky my first slot car set was made by Lesley I had in the 60s had long springs that you inclosed in the track and you stuck little spikes to the bottom of your matchbox cars and was driven by 2 little cogs and motors. Oh how times have changed.
Aah, but you also a huge amount of patience to constantly place them back on the road INFINITE times in a journey, great practice for the future !
You just got lucky, my slot cars were always heating up and burning to the ground.
@@seamusobrien2675 🤣😂🤣 Now that is getting you ready for EV utopia.
Car markers worked out years ago in ICEVs that the engine could catch fire, so there's a wall to protect the passengers from the engine, called, get this, a firewall.
But EVs now, "hey, let's put the part that is the potentially hot, firey, poision thing, in with the passengers." 🤔
It was only Chrysler and Kia that decided that. The CEOs of Toyota, Honda and Mazda all got fired earlier this year for saying EVs made no sense then Stellantis got $15 billion from governments in Canada to build a $500 million EV battery plant and 2 months later Tavares, Stellantis' CEO, came out and said EV can't be made and they wont make them (cost, electricity and minerals shortage). Bloody hell. What a clown show.
@@bunsw2070 Your statement about the Japanese manufacturers is not true. Toyota has been saying that for years and keeps saying it up to today. If I remember correctly they re-stated the same last week. Akio Toyoda switched roles (due to his age, he's 67 and it was planned to be that way) and is no longer the CEO and president of the company, but a chairman of the board
@ALIENdrifter66 Toyota has indeed been the outlier that has been prepared to resist (albeit quietly) the immense international governmental pressure, and do the minimum in the direction of EVs, while waiting for common sense to prevail, thus protecting its shareholders from the worst of the losses that other car marques are making. It has my respect for that.
This is worse than the Ford Pinto. Even they didn't put the gas tank INSIDE the passenger compartment.
@@phillipbanes5484
Toyota is not against “EVs” per se. They are against Lithium Ion batteries as a power source. They believe something like solid hydrogen fuel is the answer as lithium is neither safe enough, cheap enough, or lasts long enough for a legitimate power plant.
If safety concerns don't kill this EV lunacy then insurance costs and extreme depreciation will. So there's that!
💯 insurance companies won’t fix em
Still a LithiumDeathTrap!!!!.....
@@michaelschuenemann3505 not to mention the little black boys who dig it from the ground..
Not the point I was making, they will load premiums to reflect the risk and that will make them unaffordable.@@StevenMilne-sm4fk
Betamax
At least you can delete the heated seat option.
nice one
I think you mean heated seats are standard across the 4Xe range.
It's a given, not an option. Thankfully, the planet is now safe.
Also no need for an expensive Tesla if you like the 'fireplace' feature on your dashboard.
Like it👍👍
It’s not so much a battery fitted into a car, but a car built around a potential thermobaric bomb.
Like every ICE vehicle on the road?
ICE 's fuel is separate from oxidizer by a large large margin@@DarylOster
Li ion Bat: Oxidizer and fuel (lithium) intermingled: separated only by a 0.1 mm nonwoven. Ready to become a bomb any time.
Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The data (FACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE) found that:
- hybrid vehicles had the most fires, 3474.5 per 100,000 cars
- There were 1529.9 fires per 100,000 for gasoline (petrol) vehicles
- and just 25.1 fires per 100,000 cars for pure BEV electric vehicles.
So...
- a HYBRID is about one hundred and fifty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV
- a PETROL car is about sixty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV.
@@irvinewayne4086 "large large" margin? You mean, the atmosphere which is essentially unlimited oxidizer and is separated from the fuel by 14 guage mild steel?
I had an EV that caught fire. It was a Scalextric mini cooper on a track that, at age 9, I wired straight to the mains bypassing the step down transformer so going from maybe .5 to 13 amps and 10 volts to 240, to make it faster obviously. The car exploded, flew across the room, when I put it on the track and fused the consumer unit of the pub my parents ran at the time. As you can imagine my father took this extremely poorly and exploded himself. How I didn’t die from electrocution or my father’s rage is down to sheer dumb luck. I learned that day that EVs and idiots should never mix.
😂😂😂👍👍👍
people used to think oil companies had a conspiracy against electric vehicles, I don't know what they think now
I’m picturing a bunch of board room execs sitting around, with giant bowls of popcorn.
Oil companies are starting to invest in "green technology", because they see the writing on the wall not differently than anyone else. It's all government enforced and subsidized, so they're getting in on the "goodies" too.
Gasoline is better, safer, more reliable and probably not less green than ev tech, but if the government is going to punish for it, then it makes sense to go with the flow.
Well, until the advent of lithium based batteries, lead/acid cells were the provider of emf for EVs. I remember seeing a 1920s vintage Lindberg electric car (think model A touring sedan) at a car meet in the 80s. Around a decade later a local had a kei sized van that was electric. I worked (in the early 00s) in a warehouse that used a stock picker with a lead/acid battery about the size of a spinet piano (it had to weigh a ton or 2). Nobody "hid the technology" (golf carts), it just wasn't practical for the majority of highway users in the real world.
Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The data (FACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE) found that:
- hybrid vehicles had the most fires, 3474.5 per 100,000 cars
- There were 1529.9 fires per 100,000 for gasoline (petrol) vehicles
- and just 25.1 fires per 100,000 cars for pure BEV electric vehicles.
So...
- a HYBRID is about one hundred and fifty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV
- a PETROL car is about sixty TIMES more likely to catch fire than a BEV.
@@max-kew-4269 John has mentioned that EVs don't catch fire as often as ICE vehicles, but when they do, the results could be catastrophic. I'm looking to purchase an EV for my next car, but would like to wait until some new non-flammable battery chemistry is available.
You know what is really crazy none of these people see all of these fires and explosions where nobody has gotten hurt as warnings.
They are looking at it as conclusive evidence that since nobody got hurt that the technology is safe.
They are looking at the rest of us who are trying to sound the alarm and saying "We need to wait until at least a good handful of children and adults that we care about have died before we think it's a problem"
People, including kids, get killed in car fires every day of the week, its one of the many ways a car will kill you....
Exactly, well said
That's how we roll here in the good ol' US of Eh . . . I'll give you one example from the outdoor power equipment world. You know that really annoying feature on riding mowers that doesn't let you mow while in reverse unless you push a button? It's called RIO - Reverse Implement Option. It was developed because people accidently ran over toddlers while mowing backwards. At any rate, legislation to make that technology a law first hit congress in 1975. Guess when it was finally implemented? 2005. It only took THIRTY YEARS!!!
Like the Electric Viking😂
To be fair... ICE vehicles were the same. Chevy/GM in particular knew about the faulty ignitions that would cut the engine when driving that they had in multiple models over 20+ years and decided paying out the inevitable lawsuits was cheaper than fixing the problem. It's not just an EV problem, basically all large corporations will look at potential issues, cost to fix them and the approximate cost if they don't and eventually get sued and go with whatever they think will give them the most profit.
" built in crematorium feature " had me smiling all day ! thanks John
There have been petrol cars that have been completely burnt out in bush fires and still have an intact fuel tank with petrol still in them .
You need the correct fuel to air ratio to ignite gasoline. If the gas tank isn't leaking gasoline outside the vehicle it's difficult to ignite the fuel. Batteries have a similar situation. They need a certain amount of charge to keep the fire going. However some major differences occur between gasoline and batteries. Gasoline cars have a fuel pump that is needed to push the fuel out of the gas tank so if the car isnt' operational the tank needs to be breached to literally add more fuel to the fire or air to the fuel. Batteries on the other hand need to be kept fairly charged when not driving as charging can be time consuming and you can't just stop and fill them back up in 3 minutes. Charged batteries are much more likely to catch fire or stay on fire than half charged batteries. Batteries generate heat while charging as well as discharging the battery. So charging at home is just as dangerous as driving on the roads. As batteries charge resistance increases as the batteries become more charged. More resistance equals more heat so the temperature of a battery will increase as it's charged. most chargers will slow the rate of charge as the battery nears 100% to reduce the chance heat from charging will damage the battery. also one of the reasons dealers want to talk about the 80% charge times, charging to 80% is only about half the time of charging to 100%.
After a few years in NSW Bushfire Brigade, I can tell you I have never seen a tank explode (or found one exploded). Never been called to a car fire on the road (called to many in the bush, all deliberate) and have seen only one car fire on the road in the last 40 years. Have heard of a few car fries on the news untill the last couple of years, and then they were all electric.. I would love to k now were the EV supporters get their facts from as to fire frequencies
And now, a company called Silence have brought a small EV to the market with two detachable 5.6 kWh batteries that you can charge in your home overnight.
What could possibly go wrong?
Bit ironic when the video includes an ad for a torch with a rechargeable battery,
Oops, again.
At least you'll be warm.
Opens the boot and find 136 18V Ryobi One+ slots.
No batteries in the home! I have a little shed in the back yard, ALL my batteries are charged out there. I do like the little Silence car, maybe battery ejection system should be fitted
As a resident of Franklin, Michigan, USA - not far from the actually rather boring suburb of Troy itself - and also a mechanical engineer and lifelong car nut - I must inform you I so enjoyed the segment that introduced Capt. Patrick Durham and which then attempted to provide some, shall we say, atmospherics about the area and the man - I nearly spewed my beer out with laughter. While your geographic description may be slightly off - Big Beaver is actually a road and not a "place" per se - this matters not at all. (Coincidentally, the exit off of I-75 onto Big Beaver is #69 - yes it is true.) I think everyone here greatly appreciates not only your automotive technical experience and engineering-based common sense and insight, but also the sheer immensity of dry comedic talent you posses. As a 30+ year automotive engineering veteran and consultant - and now having worked with BEVs now for some time, I am frankly appalled at what appears to be a historically unparalleled exercise in mass insanity. All the best from the USA, and Detroit (Yes, that means the suburbs too.)
We have mini Chernobyls at our doorstep!
We got them in our rubbish bags
the ‘Mini Chernobyl’ sounds v 2024…. new model
My list of regs is growing. Thanks for posting this one!
NHTSA and EPA,
Here is a list of things that need to be regulated to guide the development/deployment of EVs & Hybrid vehicles.
You NEED to regulate this list otherwise the deployment WILL lead to an unsafe vehicles and/or an ecological disaster.
#1 Charging plug in cable should be standard across all EVs (number and layout and size of pins, function of each pin, voltage and polarity etc.) similar to the gasoline pump cable that fits into all ICE vehicles. Would prevent pin damage, sparks, smoke, damage to charger and/or vehicle if each manufacturer did this differently. NACS?
#2 The high current contactors and associated electronics should be removeable for repair or replacement without having to remove/drop the high voltage high current propulsion battery from the vehicle. Labor/time for this HCC&AE removal should be
That would be too darn smart.
EV = Extremely Volatile
These things are pure madness from every point of view.
Still a LithiumDeathTrap!!!!.....
So speaks yet another drip under pressure ...
@@michaelgoode9555 You sure do .... Under Pressure baby 🍼🍼🍼🍼
From a physics stand point the battery is just about at its limits for density and makes transporting gas and oxygen cylinders feel safe.
giggle giggle - must have spent a months-worth of your brain power to come up with that. Two words for you - "Luton Airport" or maybe "Fremantle Highway" - fires caused by diesel and petrol.
When a SpaceX rocket blows up they call it rapid unscheduled disassembly maybe that term would also work for EVs in thermal runaway?
SpaceX and their most fanatic followers even call it a success, maybe that goes for exploding EVs too.
Still a LithiumDeathTrap!!!!.....
Thermal runaway can be "any" electrical item including any car not just EVs.
Stop making sound like it's EVs only.
@@aljoubert8749 Although they couldn't even reach LEO.
Unscheduled BBQ.
The very next you tube advert immediately after JC's vid. was for the all-electric Jeep Avenger used off-road with the by-line "escape to the real world". No kidding. Gotta love the sense of humour those algorithms have, eh?
"Unplanned rapid disassembly" is the correct terminology ... according to space-X
Haha, reminds me of Rolls Royce who never admit to a car breaking down, rather they "failed to proceed"!!!😂😂😂
These things bring a whole new meaning to the phrase "blew the doors off it".
Having dead shorted the traditional lead acid battery under the back seat of my Mini, and saw how quickly it boiled acid fumes into the car, this is very scary. Luckily my car had no windows fitted and no doors, so escaping was easy.
@@rotenone3871 hell no. Ran over a brick outside my garage and pinched the positive lead onto the floor of the car. Old Mini Clubmans had that cable under the floor! 🤔
The next generation sliding out of big beaver did it for me.
If you happen to be trapped in your EV during a meltdown at least you will know you did your bit to save the Planet
Mine has LFP batteries and won't suffer thermal runaway. Nothing to do with the planet, I have a superior vehicle that is free to run and cheaper to buy than I was paying for petrol. Enjoy those fuel prices.
What if it catches on fire going 80 mph down a 4 lane Freeway? That would be a pretty bad day.
Which brings up a good point - what is the lowest-impact means of dealing with your body after you are done with it? Cremation = lots of CO2. Decomposition releases methane, what about the rapid composting options being rolled out now? Now matter how you go, even in death there is no such thing as carbon-neutral.
@@jasonhutcheon5991How much did you waste on the pile of flammable crap initially? Equivalent to a fair few tanks of gas I'll bet. Nothing at all superior about an EV, except the attitide of it's deluded driver.
@@motleydude73 Novated Lease, pre tax, FBT exempt, out of pocket is cheaper than petrol. Feel free to do the maths yourself.
This goes back at least as far as the 1960 Ford Falcon which used the gas tank as the trunk floor. This design carried on through Mustangs and other small Fords, culminating in the Pinto. Pintos, being hatchbacks, had no "firewall" between the tank and the passenger compartment. Which led to their quickly earned reputation as firebombs for the passengers. Good ideas for saving money never die (just the passengers) so it's not surprising to see this one recycled.
I remember old pickup trucks had tank behind the seat or was I too young. Model T fuel filler was at base of front wind screen. Origin of firewall?
Model T had tank under drivers seat. Model A had tank in cowl.
Thanks to your channel John TH-cam recommended Capt. D's channel and I must say he was a great find, he clearly knows his stuff, just like yourself John. It's better than a college degree watching both channels. Keep up the grand work.
His "information" is based on what facts and data.
It's all conjecture.
@@davedevonlad7402 what conjecture, if it’s based on facts and data. Facts and data are that.
There are "MGUY Australia" and "Geoff Buys Cars" who also talk about ev carpocalypse.
@@KubuśpuchatekTVN I know, I watch their videos too, but come to this page for the science facts. Great channels very entertaining stuff. And great banter for dinner parties where guests own EVs
If you want to use the battery case as the EV's floor, it needs to be built to firewall standards. How much thicker the single metal sheet between battery cells and the cabin would need to be to ensure fire and gasses get delayed from breaching the cabin by at least as much as it would by two separate metal layers and ensure any ruptures occur outside will negate most if not all weight savings from deleting the separate floor. With separate battery lid and cabin floor, there is a gap between the two which will insulate the cabin from the battery fire for a while. With a structural battery floor, heat from the battery fire gets conducted directly through the floor. Extra lid thickness may be necessary to slow that down too.
John I watched the firefighters video yesterday and wondered how long before you picked up on it. I have half a dozen EV’s in my street on the Goldy and I’m just waiting for one of them to announce their colourful presence to the locals. I’ve already briefed my wife to make sure she is upwind if the inevitable occurs while she is home.
Mate, I hope for the sake of y'all that she realises before it's too late.
Hahahahahah ur right if those cars were present, I wonder what brand are these EVs? If similar than u have a case. Otherwise this is like u waiting for a plane to explode and land precisely on your home, the odds are low my freind. Like I said unless it’s some dumb manufacturer each to their own. And please do save my comment and prove me wrong when they do explode. I will be waiting ….
MGUY is also talking about this.
I think I may have the answer , remember the old steam engines that had a separate tender to carry the coal in . Well why not have a trailer at the back of the carry the battery , problem solved . Can you just see all those cars travelling all with their little battery packs , trundling behind. And of course at the first sign of trouble , you will be able to jettison the battery . Obviously that might need some thought , but I’m sure they could sort it out before it hits the market . Ps do you think I should patent my idea 😂
Ever actually towed a trailer? I thought not.
Try parallel parking. Backing down a street.
Extend your garage 4 meters.
50% fewer parking spaces.
Great solutions.
Make EVs even LESS attractive!
They just need to copy Star trek set up the cars so they can "eject the warp core" at the first sign of trouble.
I saw my first EV fire on the M1 near Nottingham in England last week. It’s actually a bit scary.
come on spill the beans, what car?
I saw one a few weeks back by my house. Absolutely scary af. It was a ford hybrid I believe.
Oh and there was no accident. It was just driving then burst into flames.
Highway 75 north of Detroit, exit 69, Big Beaver Rd.
Probably the most giggled about street sign in the murder mitten.
somewhat off topic, I am wondering when EVs are crash tested are their batteries fully charged or discharged?
Good question.
Good point
IIHS website reports that the samples provided are charged enough to be drivable. The same website said that while they segregate crashed BEVs after testing they have never had one catch fire even weeks after test completion.
I can see a new BEV specific test: having the belly pan and battery case ripped open by a steel bollard
@@theairstig9164An EV in a collision must have frame distortion so you'd expect battery casing being cracked...
Are ice tanks full in crash testing?
22:15 Some great research John. A lot of constructive comments in the comments section but as you mentioned it seems everyone has forgotten about the Ford Pinto case in America. As I look into the boot of my 66 Mustang & 65 Holden I am looking at two exposed drop-in fuel tanks used as boot floors which were only separated from the back seat with a cardboard divider. At least Holden had the tank located further forward as part of the parcel shelf. The last of the VZ Monaro's that were exported were mandated by US authorities to have the tank located forward behind the back seat firewall. It simply amazes me that these same US authorities haven't transitioned these regulations to the EV manufacturer's after all the needless deaths that have occurred in the past.
Same situation with hundreds of thousands of pickups built in the 40s through 60s - fuel tanks in the cab...
I do remember the Pinto, my Aunt had one. It was still unburnt when she eventually got rid of it. As for why the USA hasn’t done anything about EV’s, check out what the President says about EV’s. He wants ALL new car sales to be EV only within the next 15 or so years. That means the whole administration has bought in to the EV hype and any evidence they are dangerous will be quietly (as quiet as possible) swept under the rug. We are living in a world where if someone in power wants something bad enough, they can find a big enough dirt mound to bury their head in and scream at the top of their lungs “I can’t hear you!”
All it it takes is one incident with a family inside and then A) government goes from EV way of the future to having the cars painted in olive green with health warning on it B) sales for EV tank so hard ,that you couldn’t give away a second hand EV let alone sell a new one. As I said it takes a disaster before the government and motoring bodies take notice.
Have you told the FCAI? Or the electric vehicle council? Because last time I looked they are still pushing for accelerated infrastructure roll out and subsidised uptake
lets see why the gov didnt use EV as their car. afraid of explosion?
Chevy Bolt burning houses down? That an old one. Hyundai/Kia burning houses down? Not that long ago. Yet still nothing was done except battery recalls and manufacturers telling you to park XX distance away from a building.
But there have been multiple disasters with EVs as the star of the show, the woke green arsehole brigade just gloss over them as being rare and unlikely... 🤔🤪
I guess with that rationale, we would actually take all assault rifles and the ammo they use off the market, But that isn't ever going to happen either.
John, I like your response videos too!
I'm 3 minutes in and finding out so much I didn't know. Thank you for the reporting, John.
Still a LithiumDeathTrap!!!!.....
Ah Ha. A 3 minute expert. 👏👏👏
A rapid deconstruction of a vehicle to its basic (if not burnt and bent) components. You and MGUY are all over this😊
I love how I got an EV commercial on TH-cam just before watching this.😂
I always get such ads when watching this channel
Exciting lithium powered disassembly aside, I've bought small, powerful OLights for the young ladies in my extended family, and explained how to blind any would be attackers at night, and/or bonk them on the nose. Excellent self defence item, highly recommended.
I've been on the fence about this, but now I'm convinced. Getting rid of my EV and investing in white-phosphorus grenades.
One fact people never consider, is that a ICE only stores 7% of fuel onboard. The other ~93% is the air itself! Contrast to a EV which must store 100% of its energy needs for any given range onboard. That is a major factor of why EV are so much more dangerous!
@@TheBelrickOK, that is the first original thought I have seen on EV vs ICE in the past couple of years. Nice one.
@@mikelastname ta, you don't know me but im an original fellow. I was just researching fuel air ratios when this epiphany struck me . Take care.
Dear Lord J Cadogan, this was a really powerful and well delivered essay. Thank you for introducing Captain Patrick Durham, and his superb channel.
As a reformed automotive engineer I used to design petrol and diesel fuel systems. Basic rules apply about likely body structure deformation and likelyhood of fuel system leaks.
The BEV set, especially, decided in their arrogance these rules are 'retro' and 'legacy' - which they are, and were hard won.
Time the batt centric set woke up.
Here in Cape York, I am yet to see a ev.
Perhaps car manufacturers can put the batteries in a separate compartment with blow off hatches, a bit like they store ammo in western tanks
The Jeep and Renault have gone down the Soviet path with the turret tossing option.
I better idea is to back to making ICE cars🤔
perhaps carried in a trailer .towed by the car .and submerged in concrete ?
Under the car UNDER the anti IED shieldplate…
So that some else's family gets taken out by the projectile hatches being blown off?
Somehow I am quite glad that I can't afford any car, let alone an EV. My 1000USD, 200cc Chinese motorcycle has proven more reliable than most cars these days. Simplicity truly is the way, unfortunately this isn't the direction that vehicle manufacturers will take, because money.
Also, congrats on the world cup win. Took some courage to say that as a South African.
You are paying for EVs even if you don't buy one. Govt subsides and insurance rates will be tacked on to your voluntary contribution to the utopia the Govt is creating for you.
Thanks for waiting while I watched his video. You were absolutely right. Subscribed.
Your video was awesome as usual. Thank You for caring so much about us. Great Respect to You…Dude…
Another good one John, and yes, I've watched a couple of the other guy's videos, quite informative and scary at the same time. However, trying to mitigate the risk of gas etc into the passenger compartment of these EVs with a sealed, thermally insulated floor would add yet more weight and reduce their already meagre range........probably the reason they don't put one there in the first place.
many EVs have total separation between the passenger cabin and the pack
@@edc1569- so how come the cabin often fills with the explosive gases ? Makes no sense if what you say is true?
Funny thing is, my motorhome insurance clearly states I cannot carry my electric push bike in the boot/hold, but must be on a rack on the back. That was a new change when I renewed the yearly insurance 3 months ago so I guess they’re now starting to protect themselves too
Seems like many of us are going to experience Electric Karma, not the good kind either.
When lithium power wall batteries were new to Australia, many local councils had requirements that concrete block sheds separate from the house be constructed for the batteries. Suddenly these regulations disappeared and you could put any battery pack directly onto your walls. What happened? The original regulations were correct.
Same reason environmental regs seem to not exist for new PV and wind farms.
BLM - Bird Lives Matter!@@rjbiker66
Balance, from one perspective your gas cooker should be in a concrete outbuilding separated from the dwelling, but we all accept that many peoples homes will burn down as on balance thats the trade off we make for convenience.
Dunno about Australia but here in sunny South Africa I mount my batteries outside on a double brick wall with an air gap.
@@edc1569 You can smell gas leaks, you can't smell thermal overload in a sealed battery pack.
Twenty five years ago my niece's V8 Wrangler caught fire spontaneously (fuel line broke, it was mainly burnt out). Modern jeeps just following a long tradition.
Seen lots of vehicle fires around here lately, curiously mainly Audi's and BMs. Seems they have firey susceptibilities probably all the magnesium alloy.
Not yet seen an EV go up yet, but looking forward to it, from all reports it should be a good show.
As an Australian, we thoroughly enjoy anything that can be made into The Big however I'm kinda torn that we don't have Beavers in Australia although the back of The Big Merino does provide much juvenile humor and mirth so thankyou City of Goulburn.
As EVs age and are neglected like their ICE counterparts we can expect more of this type of fun in the future.
I really enjoy your videos and admire your workshop.
Best wishes from England.
Never thought for one minute that they would be that stupid to make the battery shell from aluminium, but I suppose saving weight would be their main priority rather than puncture protection or as in those cases(no pun intended) melting. Shocking.
Great vids as always John.
Lol...Aluminum.. no sir .. they call it rustfree metal. 😂
@@RealButcherThermite part B
The issue is that the governments around the world are introducing deadlines for the introduction of all EV whilst knowing full well that the technology that will enable it … doesn’t exist yet. [so the safety of the product is being sacrificed for the benefit of meeting targets]
This is a well known tactic that governments do, and in some cases in the past it has proved successful because it was the impossible to meet target that drove the creation of the new technology. [as in that without the target the technology would never have been developed]
But … and this is a big BUT, with the motor industry laws and standards have been introduced and evolved over the years by all of the mistakes made along the way to govern and control the safety of vehicles, in the old days no one cared if a car was dangerous, you bought it and took you chances because everyone wanted a car. Decades later there are now safety standards to be met which carry onerous severe penalties if now followed.
The problem you have now is that by driving the manufactures with threats and targets they will by default ignore safety standards and do what ever it takes to try and meet the new targets. [we have gone back to the old days of when the modern car was 1st introduced as a mass product.]
EVs introduce bespoke hazards into vehicles that have not been an issue before, so are not governed by current safety procedures and standard.
the manufacturers know these hazards exist, and when it goes wrong they will claim it is a learning point for the industry and will fall back on the argument of …
“oh we didn’t realise how bad this would be, and we only did it because you were forcing us to do it otherwise we would fail your target dates, and there has been no history of these EV hazards before so it’s a learning point for the entire industry” [as in that we are not personally to blame, it is an industry wide problem]
We haven't heard widespread safe and effective yet, that's the last gasp before abandoning the whole charade
They saw how effective Big Clive's explosion containment pie dish is.
Thoroughly enjoyed the message and the delivery!
You're doing important work, John. To date you are the only person I have heard advising of just how dangerous the smoke from a lithium battery is, even though it's the most likely cause of exposure for the average person, given the crowds that form around such an event. Sadly there's no way of counting how many people DON'T die because they listen to you.
Is he? he's dishonestly comparing Hybrids and BEV's with a clickbait headline to bait EV haters to generate revenue. None of thees examples are current EVs in Australia with LFP batteries
@jasonhutcheon5991 mate did you even read my comment? I referenced him talking about how dangerous various lithium based batteries can be when they enter thermal runaway and off gas. Nothing about comparing different technologies, nothing about differing drive trains, but making the public aware of hazards you realistically may encounter at the moment surrounding accidents involving this tech. Nobody else is talking about this, and a very large proportion of the general public, as a result, do not realise the smoke and other fallout from such an event is any more dangerous than any other smoke. So I feel he is doing very important work in getting this message out to people, as my comment says.
@@jasonhutcheon5991
FFS, do hybrids not have lithium ion batteries in them too?
And, to make things worse, these are only small bombs instead of the full blown bombs in EVs!!
Dude, you nailed it. Thanks for the shout out to SE Michigan.
You mention not to use a garden hose to try and put out an ev fire because it won't do much along with exposure to dangerous gases, is there a risk of electrocution with the high voltage architecture they use also. Some of the training packs I have seen for mechanics at trade nights are more about how to safely disconnect and reconnect the battery more than mechanical stuff.
Q: is there a risk of electrocution with the high voltage architecture they use also(?) A: yes, for as you just mentioned it is indeed HIGH VOLTAGE. right, so the idea that's been known since Edison first flipped the switch on the Pearl Street Power Station in NYC on September 4, 1882 that states: "Electricity and Water Don't Mix" still applies, everybody knows this or at least SHOULD know this...
hint: it's very important we GET OVER this bullsh!t promoted by Elon and the fanboys that something "magical" is taking place with EV's, and that much of the basic knowledge and common sense Humanity has gained over the last 140 years is now "thrown out the window" (because it isn't out the window).
A battery that big needs a swimming pool to control thermal runaway, so garden hose ain't gonna help. The high voltage is not like powerline, it is not grounded, it is not AC and it's not kilovolts. But don't be poking around because at 200-800 volts any part of your body that connects those is gonna cook.
The Bean Counters who said "Nah, you don't need a floor panel in that, perfectly good place to rest your feet on the battery, might even double [no extra expense] as a foot warmer" were obviously graduates of the NFB course.
After the casual plug for Sexyland an episode or two ago I was wondering where you were going with your advertising of that curious looking torch. Stellantis was just trying to deal cheaply with two EV battery problems, protecting from physical damage and water ingress, both real problems in an off-road vehicle. Speaking of water, lots of people drive Jeeps through fairly deep water so there’s probably a nasty surprise waiting for them too. Maybe they could come up with some plumbing to allow the engine to burn the battery gasses for that one last amazing burst of acceleration…
Haha
I view the information provided as a great way to develop a checklist of features required of an EV when the purchase is mandatory. The battery system totally separate from the vehicle occupants is a deal breaker just as the fuel system being separate has been for many years. I am quite happy for the early adopters play crash test dummy on this as there is minimal upside...
Surprised you haven't done a video on the Samsung home battery fires yet. White fos. Did that training in the army.
Thanks - you just reminded me that I studied all of those things as well and have subsequently forgotten almost all of it.
Sounds like some welcome additions to the government car fleet.
Thanks for the advert
Well my Citroën has its fuel tank under the rear seat with direct access to the tank and fuel pump. Similar problem, but I agree the passenger cabin should be isolated from battery's and or fuel tank.
The i30 1.5 T-GDI mild hybrid has the same issue. The location of the hybrid battery is where the spare used to be.
Jeep and Renault are both FCA, which is no longer a US car maker, but instead a Europe-based consortium doing business in the US and elsewhere.
Renault has always been a questionable vehicle to start with, but since they bought the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep moniker, they've cheapened it so badly that it will never be the same.
These questionable designs are shocking in themselves, but considering the source of the design, all I can do is shake my head and make sure that I give them a wide berth if/when I ever see them on the road or worse, in a parking lot.
We thought the Ford Pinto was bad.
This is the new generation.
In their most recent dependability review, ReliabilityIndex placed Jeep 29th out of 40 manufacturers, with a reliability score of 173. This isn’t that much below the industry average; in fact, it’s similar to the score of brands like Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar and BMW, but it’s still not a great score. That's a good explanation.
Shortly after Chrysler (who own Jeep) bought into Daimler Benz, the satisfaction rating from Mercedes owners fell out of the top ten for the first time ever. Jaguar is also not a shining light of reliability or satisfaction.
@@iffracem I had a cousin many years ago that had an XKE Jag with a V12. I asked him if he ever drove it, he said not any more. He said that some cars nickel and dime you to death, then he said that his jag $10 and $20 dollar you to death, and this was in the early 70s.
I think jeep are owned by fiat now.
@@crabby7668 And we all know how fun Fiat is with their high quality electronics...
I wonder if this might be related to the Rotten Tomatoes movie review site. Turned out they were boosting movie scores for money. MB, Jaquar and BMW have terrible reliability compared to competent car makers like Toyota or any number of Japanese car makers (not Nissan, pure trash).
I recall reading last year that EV manufacturers were using the battery as essentially part of the chassis to save weight. I wonder how many newer EVs are using similar designs...
My kids gave me a white phosphorus scented candle for father's Day. It didn't burn for long.
Perhaps its spacex technology of rapid unschedulded disassembly making its way to the consumer products
Does the next jeep model come with the “ejector seato cuz!”
Big Beaver Road is Exit 69 on I-75 going thru Troy.
I've been watching his videos for a few months now, great shoutout to another facts and logic channel John :)
You've outdone yourself John. That was an almost 5 minute long ad...
Didn’t scientists also say something else was “safe and effective”?
What are you going to believe , a woke scientist or your own lying eyes 😂
Yea they did! That thing that gave me cancer.
@@motleydude73 aw I’m sorry to hear that. I pray that they caught it early. It’s affect a lot of people hat already had cancer as well.
@@bobmester3475 No it's terminal. A workmate died a few weeks ago from turbo cancer, only lasted 2 weeks from diagnosis. Pretty scary.
Remember when LPG vehicles used to catch fire until they were solved.
Was before John's time. Barely a whisper mentioned about it now, was an interesting topic in the automotive world years ago.
@@Mikere5 You have a backgound in Automotive and LPG systems ?
But this ‘feature’ has been known for all time. As in the 1993 movie ‘Demolition Man’ where an EV is exploded by shorting.
Wesley Snipes owned every second of that film.
@@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCarsgreat movie plus a lot of social predictions.
John, I am glad you decided to look into this channel. Like I said in my previous post when I recommended it, this gives you a different perspective on the issue with EVs. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
He recently uploaded a video of the car industry's move to electronic door lock latch mechanisms. Mechanical locks could be better with the rods and flimsy plastic clips, but they are more likely to work in an emergency. I keep a $6 (USD) welder's chipping hammer in the back pocket of the passenger's backrest. In case I need to escape from my car or break a car window of a vehicle where occupants are trapped in.
As an API Inspector, safety is of the utmost importance to me. I am currently working at a petrochemical site, so vapor clouds and dangerous atmospheres, uncontrolled product release (their name for a leak), are a few of the things in the back of my mind when I am out there performing my duties in looking for mechanical integrity issues on both pressure vessels and piping systems.
Yep, saw the StacheD vid when it aired (subscribed) & was blown away by his knowledge and concern for his fellow workers & the public.
A stark contrast to the fire department spokesman on-site at the Luton Airport fire who stuck to the lie that it was started by a diesel.
Well, it was started by a diesel, a diesel hybrid and it was the traction battery that started the whole thing. The spokesperson was not lying, exactly. Yes, they are willing to gamble with real lives and play semantics in front of the camera.
@@phillipbanes5484 a lie of omission, easily defended with a simple “I meant to say…”. You always have to try and read between the lines, see what they didn’t say, figure out the scam. Pretty sad world we live on now.
@@ryanlukens9280well actually it wasn't a hybrid, just a diesel.
Never thought I’d hear Laplace and Fourier mentiond in the same breath here. That takes me back to my studies 40 years ago!
Could it be that Jeep designers used to design those flying tank turrets the Russians are so fond of using?
Perhaps this is a way of doing the battery swap thing to speed up charging. If the driver and each passenger has a set of batteries attached to them, and they connect up to the car to power it. If they battery compartment vents to the passenger compartment, you may as well wear the batteries. Each person can be charged individually while they are doing other stuff, like being at work, eating in a resteraunt, watching daytime TV etc etc. Each person then contributes to the cars weight and range. Thus no extra charging time and everytime you swap a passenger you get extra range. Even more effective on a bus😊
Wouldn’t park a EV in my garage even if they gave them away for free!
Remember the Ford Pinto where the floor of the cargo area was the top sheet of the gasoline tank? I listened to the end, he did remember. I thought we learned this before.
re: "I thought we learned this before." we did, unfortunately most of the generation who knew this have passed away and taken this "sage wisdom" with them to their graves. right, so the people who are alive currently (and dealing with the problem) were basically "born last night" and are therefore "baby young to the world". see we forget there's a reason why the phrase was coined that reads: "A Sucker Is Born Every Minute..."
I love EVs
Trains,Buses and trams powered by overhead lines
Cities used to be walkable
Now people live in suburbs so they can afford car payments to get to work
Actually, people live in suburbs and are willing go work to pay for cars and spend time and money driving so that they don't have to live right beside other people and put up with the crime, filth, and disease of cities.
@@kirkjohnson6638 Oh, Kirk. Mate. Have you seen what 'suburbs' look like nowadays? The only thing difference between living in an inner city apartment and a new suburban development is that you get about 15 square metres of front yard, and the same out the back in the 'burbs. But you can still hear your neighbours fucking or fighting next door because the houses either butt up against each other, or have about a metre separation. And if you think crime, filth and disease are just a city thing, methinks you need to get out more.
Yeah... People definitely live in suburbs so they don't have people living right next to them
Housing estates definitely aren't known to be crime ridden hellholes
@@kirkjohnson6638"crime , filth and disease of cities"
I didn't realise Victorian England had access to TH-cam lol
@@BradGryphonn Well, you don't gave to buy into the suburban slums, now do you? Buy a nice place built in the 60s, 70s, or 80s when you srill got a 1/4 acre lot and buy aomeplace nice and established where your don't have trash neighbors. In any case, it's still infinitely better than beig in a city.
Fore bonus points two other cities in Michigan are Climax and Hell. The Harley-Davidson crowd has an annual rally in Hell.
4:20 This O-light is the first I've really been keen on. Not for the faux Gold gimmick, but the multiple lighting options available. I never thought I'd buy an O-Light but this looks interesting.
Most torches these days are the shity lighting white.
None come in warm white with is so much better on the eyes
I was impressed with the Nordic fire fighting video you did a few weeks ago. Now I realize it will only work on maybe only a Renualt Zoe or an EV with a vented floor. Pouring the iced water into the cabin of most EVs will do hardly anything as the battery will continue to heat up.
The problem about the relative number of car fires between ICE and EVs (ie there are more ICE car fires) doesn't take into account that the EV population of vehicles is far younger
Still a LithiumDeathTrap!!!!.....
Or, that arson is prevalent amongst old ICE cars.... Although I could see some people setting fire to their EV's when they get their insurance quotes
You do understand even the act of comparison EV fire and ICE vehicle fires instantly shows just how ignorance the person is. 👌
If you’ve read any of the studies they do take that into account.
@@Dartspluck11 👍 That's great.
Arr so they take into account comparison is pointless.
After all comparing the numbers isn't making The EV safer.
500 hectares of multi storey car parks in Melbourne. Each with a population of 80% Electric / Hybrid cars. One gang of determined dudes. Equipped with some Bunsen Burners and the odd axe.... How do you think the Melbourne Fire Brigade will go? Triaging multiple city blocks with residents situated atop 9/11 catastrophes? Who do we save first? What would be the total toll? Dead? Injured? Maimed? How soon would residents and workers regain access to the CBD and surrounding areas? What would the total cost to all affected be? ALSO What would the total tonnage of climate changing gases from the whole boondoggle amount to? Would the venerable IPCC actually be able to measure a temp difference after the event? Would world temperatures go up or down with the destruction of Melbourne?
What a doozie of a question!
Ever since Jacinda in N.Z was going to put nappies on cows, I’ve been regularly farting in N.Z s direction since! I don’t seem to be having much effect!
EV cars are safe and effective and adverse events are rare.
Dunno ifu noticed John but i gave u a thumbs up when u visited us.
I doubt whether the axe would be permitted here in sheepshsgastan John mate, it may arrive with the local constabulary. 😊😊😊😊.
In the UK news today, EV insurance premia up by 72% because they can’t be fixed (or not at any sensible cost). My sister’s BMW EV was written off after a fairly minor ding… now that’s not very green…
My brother has had two cars "written off" because there was a hailstorm and they got a few dings in the roof and bonnet (hood for those of you that don't understand English)
Do EVs go through the same crash testing as a conventional , is the test performed without fuel? Meaning no messy petrol etc to mop up but also no
I just listened to a EV site that's talking about EV batteries dying at about 10-15 years, costing $15k-$25k to fix.
It seems that the cost savings are significantly over stated. An internal combustion powered vehicle will last 20-30+ years with decent maintenance. I know, that's what I drive.
In a couple decades, when ammonia fueled internal combustion vehicles replace many petrochemical fueled combustion vehicles, EVs will fall out of favor.
The exploding seats might be a mob hit option, but that would be on Cadillac or luxury cars, not Jeeps.
But you're missing the point. EVs so rarely catch fire, so it won't happen to me. Such things only happen to someone else.
Shouldn't there also be a ventilated space between battery and car floor. Not only to let fumes escape but also to cool the battery and make thermal runaway less likely in the first place?