44 Magnum Bear Loads Penetration Test - Buffalo Bore & Underwood vs 2x10 Lumber
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- #NYPrepper #44magnum #SmithandWesson
In this video I shoot three popular factory bear loads from Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo to see which ones penetrate the deepest. The test media are 2x10 Doug Fir framing joists cut to short lengths and screwed together. We tested the Underwood 44 magnum 305 grain hardcast, the Buffalo Bore 44 magnum 305 grain hardcast, Buffalo Bore 44 magnum 265 grain Mono-metal, and Buffalo Bore 44 magnum 300 grain JFN.
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What a pleasure to watch a informative video such as this, You made an excellent presentation that was very well though out and executed.
Thanks a lot for the good words, I owe you a cold one. I have many more videos planned like this, but I am in the process of finishing up moving.
New drinking game, everyone take a drink when he says "ok" or "uh"
The crimp on those rounds is insane
yes they have to be
👍 Excellent video. It’s nice to see that the Underwood 305 grain hardcast performed so well because that’s what I carry in my S&W 629 5” barrel when I am in bear country.
Great presentation, and you actually speak common, regular English . Thank you.
Thank you
I ordered some Buffalo Bore, 500gn for my 45-70. I oayed nearly $4 per round but damn...does it hit HARD!Them claiming to produce some of the heaviest rounds on the market is no joke!
I have done tests with those
Check my 45-70 playlist
AWESOME INFO! Thanks a bunch!
Sure
Thanks for making this video. I appreciate it. I'm an avid hunter and shooter, an old military guy! 🪖 I'm also a professional Carpenter/Furniture Maker. 🪵
Something good to know or think about when testing ammo on wood boards is that the Sapwood is the living outermost portion of a log or board and is much softer than the heartwood which is the inner part of the wood. With the Spruce, Pine and Fir you can easily tell the sapwood from heartwood. The Sapwood has the lighter/off white color, and the harder heartwood has the pink/red color. For a more accurate testing you'll want to fire all of the rounds into the same part of the boards, either all heart, or either all sap. I tell my kids that firing at wood is trickery! So try to find some boards that look the same, that the rings on each board all look about the same, and the cupping of the boards are all faced the same direction. You may be surprised next time!
Again, thanks for making the video. You're appreciated.
I am aware of the sapwood and heartwood as I went to Forestry school for 2 years. That is what I try to do with my test as much as possible I would say for the most the tests are very accuate and much better than water for comparing penetration between cartridges and ammo. I suppose I could use something man-made and more consistent like medium density fiber board but then it is too dry and more expensive. Thanks for the comment.
Very good information. Thank you for this test
Thanks for watching man...going back to prepping videos soon
I use the Sierra 300grs bullets too. They are a harder cast lead than normal jacketed bullets. Do a simple scratch test and you'll see the difference. They aren't really meant to expand. Their advantage is that you don't have leading in the barrel and don't need gas checks like would with hard cast lead only bullets.
Well i am glad I found this! I load my own with 300 grain hard cast and probably get similar results. Water jug test goes through 7 jugs from a Freedom arms 44 mag. Thanks!
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
No problem
Great video, those boards looked like a true 2 inches thick also!
Thanks for the info.
Those bullets are crazy
I carry them when I go to the Catskills
You mentioned the polymer coating on the Underwood bullet wouldn't lead the bore, a good hard cast bullet shouldn't lead the bore anyway.
Now you're talking about one of the greatest handgun round ever. I own a Ruger super Blackhawk hunter 44 with 7" barrel. It is absolutely reliable and very accurate. And eats max hand loads like I can eat m+M's. 😊 Awsome video . I subscribed today God bless.
Great channel i have a Super Redhawk Alaskan 2.5 barrel .44. Buffalo Bore Deer Grenade and 340grain +P+ are great rounds too. Underwood has one too. So true on the cost difference.
Im From Lake George NY retired in WV.
Thank you for the video. It is interesting how some rounds have dramatically less smoke.
Yes they do
How about comparing the Buffalo bore 340 gr vs mono metal 44 load. Thanks
Excellent review as always. Unbelievable fps and power from a .44 magnum.
Thank you I love it
I think the buffalo bore is closer than you think to the underwood. A knot in the wood could have caused that little difference. Thanks for the video!!!!
Good video. I would use any of those with confidence.
me too!!
The monometal is a long bullet that may not be as well stabilized in the short barrel you're using as the hard cast. It's a personal choice but in order to give all projectiles a fair chance, it seems to me that a longer barrel would be more representative of the true penetration of each one of these. Great choice of ammo by the way !
Longer barrel would add maybe 100-200 fps max
@@NYPrepper Yes, but it isn't about the added speed, it is about the added length of the barrel creating more stability for a long bullet because the spin imparted on the bullet guides it for a longer rotation time inside the barrel. As an example, Buffalo Bore and Underwood both make a 700 grains bullet in 500 S&W. It is not well stabilized in the four inch guns but it is properly stabilized in the longer barrel of the other models. Another example; I shot handgun metallic silhouettes competitively using a 7mm round. I had two barrels, one ten inch barrel and one 14 inch. The ten inch barrel wouldn't stabilize bullets above 150 grains, I tried 160 grains and they weren't stabilized at all while the 14 inch barrel did stabilize them. The additional time in the barrel is what created the stability. The speed difference was barely 150 fps, the fastest of the two was going at 1800 fps. That speed difference isn't enough to create stability.
A slightly different subject regarding stability; in order to compensate for one inch of twist, a bullet in a rifle has to go an additional....1400 to 1500 fps faster. It isn't feasible in an ordinary setting and is confined to laboratory experiments. The "100-200 fps max" that you indicate would have a truly minimal, if any, effect on stability. In a handgun a 400 fps increase would start to have an effect on stability but the length of the barrel more so because of time in a controlled environment, the barrel, creating a longer controlled twist.
You are absolutely correct but when im out hunting and using a 44mag as a side piece im not carrying around a 10 inch barrel on my hip...these videos are very informative to people trying to use the right bullets in a shorter barrel...
Bullet stability usually takes a distance from the muzzle to stabilize or go to sleep. Distance of 15 yards would be better for that long copper bullet to go to sleep.
My guess is the best bear load for that gun is the BB 200 grain full wadd cutter even in 44 special will drop any black bear on earth.
When testing in media you want something closer to animal bone and tissue than wood and it needs to be consistent media. Wood isn't consistent in density between heartwood and sapwood nor does it replicate tissue very well. Pieces of plywood to replicate bone between water jugs would be a better test as you have better consistency in density and have water to replicate fluid. Wet newsprint or wet paper bundles is another good media also for testing. Your choices of ammo were very good. I think if you soaked 2 pieces of plywood and put them between 2 water jugs and then had 4 jugs between the next pieces of plywood followed by another couples jugs to catch the bullets. This duplicate hitting tissue and then bone then tissue and then bone again. This is how I test my reloads. More media tells you more about penetration differences and you can see better if the bullets track straight over a longer path. It takes a lot of guesswork out of interpreting the results.
I find the 2x lumber is pretty consistent as long as its the same specie and grade, the purpose of the test was not to replicate living tissue but to see overall penetration and compare one to the other and see how deep they go compared to others.
G.K.U.S.A. I would never carry a .44 mag. with a 2.5"barrel in grizzly country. A 5- 7.5" barrel will give better ballistics, less muzzle flip, and muzzle flash. I have a S&W M29 with a chest carry holster. No problem for me. My Super Redhawk ( which I no longer have), shot 2-2.5" groups at 75 yds with 240 gr.standard loads and hot Cor-Bon 240 grainers. I tried to use a 2.5× 8 scope. It was great- but slow to get lined up on paper at the higher magnification. It was ok for hunting, but added too much weight. A red dot sight would have been sufficient up to 75yds. I think 5-6"hits the sweet spot for me. Also, for bear protection, I've read and heard that hard cast bullets are best at this time. Grip size and cylinder diameter is a bigger factor than 3" or 4" longer barrels for outside the shirt or jacket carry. You don't need to conceal a handgun in the forest.
Love the short barrel on the test Gun. I’m tired of seeing tests done with long barrels that probably will not be carried.
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this already but the solid copper bullet is from Lehigh Defense
Yes it is correct made in my new home state of Pennsylvania
I would use the 265 grain LeHigh solid to penetrate bone skull bear at charging distance. Tumbling inside the skull would create more central nervous system damage in my opinion.
You're assuming the bullet "tumbles" inline with the point of initial bullet impact/path. The bullets are not tumbling they are yawing off course (deflecting) which is not what you want. Bullet that deflect will change direction off sloped surfaces like skulls, i.e. glance off and not penetrate the skull at all. The reason the "tumbling" bullets stayed close to the original path is because they are striking a 90* flat surface.
Awesome test man. I wonder how the 340 grain +p+ from Buffalo bore would compare to these
That's my carry when I go to Alaska. 44 super Blackhawk 7 5/8 barrel. It's a beast and the trigger guard literally cut my finger after 4 rnds. And I work with my hands and a decent sized fella at 6"2 240. I came here looking for the results from that load
@@factsnotfeelingssendit5961 For rounds like that probably want to be wearing gloves. I haven't bought my ruger redhawk yet but that's the ammo I want to try when I get it.
@@LogainTheHumane Hold on Budd lol she's going to be stiff out of that Redhawk. I didn't wear gloves cause I wanted to replicate how I would be there in July. Good luck with your soon to be new revolver
@@factsnotfeelingssendit5961 You think the recoil will be worse from the redhawk 7.5 inch than out of the super blackhawk 7 5/8?
@@LogainTheHumane Nope, most likely be the same. Different grips is the variable. I have pachmayer on mine
Dude you need to get a chronograph and stop guessing.
Good video glad I found your channel. Ok two things, even at rifle speed the jsp won't expand much in wood tests as yours. A longer 5 or 6 inch barrel is fine for the soft points. They'll mushroom a little bit in gel but not much. They make a good hunting round out to two hundred in a rifle. Bear country I'll stick with my 444 Marlin.
They mushroom with my 500 Magnum just fine and those go 1400+
That Sierra 300 grain Tournament Master is a good all around bullet for big game. I have used it for heavy loads in a 7.5" and 4.75" Bounty Hunter & in a 6" Taylor's and Co Cattleman, plus a Rossi 20" lever action. Good performance on bull elk and I'm sure anything else I may run into. Thanks for the video and consider a 4"-6" revolver as a trail gun. Your sight radius and velocities are much handicapped in a snubby. The Sierra bullets are for .444 Marlin or .44 mag rifles. You don't want expansion but penetration when shooting those from a revolver on dangerous game. Keep the videos coming!
I have tested 400 grain Sierra I handloaded in my 500 S&W they worked better than woodleigh weldcore bonded
@@NYPrepper Well the biggest pistol I have been able to handle is a .44 magnum but if I ever hit the lottery I may get a BFR in 45-70 government. A friend told me his kicks less than a 454, 480, 475, 460 or 500. Probably because it's such a huge pistol. The 45-70 has a reputation for dropping whatever you shoot with it. My friend owns a gun shop so he gets to shoot all the wild new calibers. Thanks for the information.
Wow you know your rounds!! Very impressive!! I may pick your brain on some other rounds! Like 7.62x39 and 54R. Maybe 303 as well! Great video
Thanks bro, I don't know a whole lot about AK and 303 but I know a lot in general about cartridges and ballistics. I am into long range shooting and big game hunting.
@@NYPrepper Ten4
Are the pressures here similar to proof testing on a 44 magnum rifle out of th factory
Very interesting! (I'd love to see the fireball from that short barrel in the dark...should be impressive, and blinding!)
I have a picture of it...check my 44 Magnum playlist
For the price I’ll take underwood over bb any day 👍 cool vid
If you hand load. They make some very hi quality hard cast bullets. In my 44 i use their 265 grn hard cast gas checked ,430". Dia. And use max load of imr 4227 from my speer manual. Very accurate and very good penetration.😊
Montana bullet works is my bullets.
It's because your using freaking wood homie
Ballistic gel test would be interesting
I'll try to do it...problem is it would go through so much gel which is expensive.
Which holster do you run with the 629? Just picked one up today.
Check my 44 magnum playlist and gear reviews. I've done reviews on them. It depends on what I am doing, for the woods where open carry is legal Gunfighters Inc. Kenai Chest Holster. For concealed carry either an AE Nelson Dual Carry OWB Belt holster or a Blackhawk CCW fanny pack.
If you happen to have examples of both I'd love to see a velocity test between the 340gr versions from both Underwood and BB. Seen a lot of vids of each, but no one actually testing them head-to-head from the same revolver. Seems like a lay-up of a video idea, so I don't know why no one has done it
Fellow New Yorker, glad I found your channel. I’m in Putnam County, where do you hail from?
I used to live in Putnam, now I am in central PA
Surprised to see the hard cast do better than the monometal since buffalo bore states the opposite on their site. Did you experience any leading in your bore?
Not much leading...hardcast bullets don't deposit any more lead than jacketed.
The reason for no expansion with your copper jacket load is simply a lack of velocity. Those bullets were likely intended for the 444 marlin. Expansion would likely occur with a longer barrel if you can obtain an impact velocity of around 1500-1600fps minimum. However, if you have'em on hand they'll likely be just as effective. For bear Defense, I would argue that a bullet that has a propensity to tumble, wouldn't be a significant disadvantage. If you're shooting in defense, the bear is likely facing you and the bullet will punch through the skull or spinal cord like any other you tested. If it were to hit the spinal cord and continue, a tumbling bullet can be incredibly destructive, creating a temporary cavity up to 3-4 times what a comparable solid would create. The problem with a bullet that tumbles is that if fired from an angle that requires penetration through a significant amount of flesh, prior to reaching the vitals (example: quartering away) the bullet may venture off course within the animal, making your shot placement far less effective.
Just some points to consider OR discuss. Testing loads and discussing the theoretical possibilities is half the fun. Enjoy and happy shootin! Very nice video
Correct the velocity was top low
Well the only problem with tumbling bullets is that they are prone to bouncing off of big bones. Thanks for the comment I appreciate it. I have some other penetration tests planned.
Sierra says that bullet is very hard and intended for game larger than deer. I think the idea is that it probably won’t expand much until it hits something as hard as bear bone, which is much harder than Douglas Fir.
Those sierra jfp bullets have printed right on the box..."FOR HANDGUN USE ONLY"
Excellent presentation, more great information! Also great that you shoot "Double Action", which is the preferred style of proficient shooting a revolver. Can you figure out why Buffalo bore strictly states not to use their 340gr.+P+ .44 magnum in S&W Revolvers?
Yes because the top strap on S&W revolvers is not as thick as Rugers!!
@@NYPrepper Although I know that my S&W 6292.5"PC Snub-nose is a great revolver, but it does answer the age old question/debate, as to which revolvers [Ruger] cast, or [S&W] forged are stronger...
So you have the same one as me? Well the Ruger uses more steel on the top strap of their 44s, but we must also remember that S&W built the X frame 500 which is as powerful as a 45-70 in a revolver so S&W definitely has mastered big bore revolvers. I do have a 500 magnum also, you should check out my playlist of it. I think Ruger has great hunting and dangerous game rifles. I have 2 ruger rigles the Ruger Guide Gun in 416 ruger and 300 win mag.
@@NYPrepper True, yes I have the same 629 model, unfortunately from when I fired it "new" I had (misfires) using factory Hornady 200gr XTP and Magtec 240gr FMJ. Sent it to S&W Jan 1st and it's still there!
Wow really. What happened you had light primer strikes?
The Buffalo Bore 44 Magnum Looks Almost as Big as a 50 Action Express I'm Watching You're Throwback Videos 🙂
Yea 44 magnum is more powerful actually
@@NYPrepper Incredible....
Hello NYPepper, I live in upstate NY, any clue if they will send it to my house? I was looking at the Buffalo Bore website but I didn't find any info. Thank you for the video btw.
Buffalo Bore will yes. When I lived in NY they did.
@@NYPrepper You are not here anymore ? Good for you, this state is messed up
those bullets are tumbling because at 5 yards they havent had a chance to stabilize. stretch your distance and see the difference. if you were shooting "boat tails" youd find that they need 100 yards to stabilize. I experimented with 30-30 win ( standard ammo vs leverlution) and found the same result. if bullets commonly tumbled, it would be pretty ineffective and unpopular ammo.
Nice video, excellent accuracy, but man won't wear globes, it affects the grip terribly
Make ballistic gel and shoot bullets wasn't designed to shoot wood.
Try splitting the board with a wood chisel next time. You won’t damage the bullets to get them out.
AFter shooting 10mm, I am convinced Underwood is above SAAMI preasures and doesn't tell the truth related to that.
So if that is important to you, like me with this polymer pistol, then go Buffalo bore instead.
Also; the solid copper bullet shows all this stuff is overkill and worry sometimes. It'll kill a bear no problem, especially with tumbling through organs.
MAy I ask (Could not see the Brand)......what brand and length the pistol you are showing here?
Smith and Wesson Model 629 Performance Center 2 5/8" barrel. I have done chronograph tests, you only lose about 200 feet per second going from 7.5" barrel to 2.5" barrel.
@@NYPrepper Thank you so much for that - as well as the great test video of yours. So it all sounds like if that is what I get to carry in a front holster with that Underwood........I would be just fine in black bear country......providing I can keep my cool and make a well placed shot.
Bottom line, much better than a pointey stick.
Would they be safe to use in a rossi 92 lever action rifle?
I am not sure to be honest
Ok.......nice. Ok
Might go a little deeper with my 7.5 barrel?
possibly
Extrem loss of velocity with short barrel.
it's a lot more easy to carry though and still can reach 1000 ft-lbs with handloads
Nothing is like 416 ruger elephant gun tho.
No definitely not the 416 ruger is made to stop the biggest animals on earth with one shot.
Great informative video, Are you wearing camo So you can hide from that clown hoople in albany?
I rhought when the US Army tested 5.56mm they preferred the bullets to tumble after hitting enemy soldiers?
For anti-personnel uses yes, but not for large predators like bears or for hunting large Class 3+ game you want that bullet to go straight through into the vital area.
Also no hollow point bullets allowed in war...only FMJ so tumbling wasnt a bad thing...hunting is a whole diff world
New York huh? Is that why the comment about a "legal" range being used?
No because of TH-cam
@@NYPrepper I see. I know you have some really nice outdoor recreational areas there. There's a tendency to discount that and a lot of us are extremely disappointed that New York became so anti-gun since the 1911 Sullivan law, which is surely unconstitutional.
44 mag on a grizzly... Marginal? lol