I teach knots to sailors and have read the article you mention. I teach them that this has all the advantages of a bowline but is much more secure. Thank you for the clear exposition.
I am using this to make a loop in the rope for my tire swing. I have the rope draped over the tree right now and I’m about to put the other end through my loop and pull it up to the tree branch. So I have to do it right the first time because I’m not climbing this tree! Thank you! Best knot I’ve found so I decided to do it and your instructional walked me right through it! Only thing I’m doing differently is lots of duct tape on the tail.
I learned to tie a one-handed Bowline when I was about 8 years old, 66 years ago. This is a nice improvement. I have been tying and teaching the Zeppelin knot for over 40 years, but recently learned the Zeppelin loop which I am reading maintains over 80% of rope strength. It is fairly easy to tie and incredibly secure, yet easy to untie when you are through with it.
I remember using this knot before it was named Scott. I can't believe it. I also came up with my own locked knot. It is a combination of Yosemite and Scott's Locked, which I called it "Loo's Locked Bowline". Tie the knot as if you are going to tie Yosemite and then use the Scott's Locked in the end. It is a great locked knot.
I have been using the Yosemite Bowline a lot lately, the Yosemite finish combined with a stopper knot or something above creates a very stable knot that I have been appreciating. I am going to have to compare this new (to me) variant with that one to see which I like better.
What were your results? I like the Scott's bowline. The problem with the Yosemite bowline is that it relies entirely on the upper collar to nip the working end, but the upper collar is not great at nipping. The Yosemite bowline looks pretty though.
I have used the Scott for for a few years for general farm work, as it is more secure under intermittant loading and takes 2 seconds longer to tie. [I don't climb anything these days btw.] My son does a great deal of lead climbing often entailing multiple falls in every climb. He has always used the double figure eight for harness tie in but finally got sick of having to cut off seized knots. He changed to the EBSB [end bound single bowline] about a year ago. His source for the knot was the same as yours ....PACI. Initially, he tied a double overhand back up knot but has stopped doing this as the EBSB has never moved. The real advantage is that it has never jammed up on him so his ropes [and his temper] last longer. He also speaks of another advantage. It is extremely quick to adjust the size of the harness loop even after the knot has been very heavily loaded .... something you cannot say of a fig 8. He normally ties in with a larger loop and then snugs it down to finish. Disadvantage of the EBSB [and any other secure bowline variant] is that other climbers are not familiar with the knot and are understandably nervous when it comes to Buddy checking. Amongst his group of regular climbers there are quite a few other converts to this knot but, in other company, there are times he resorts to the fig 8 so that fellow climbers can be confident in climbing with him. Another thing on which he is adamant is, that you have not properly learned how to tie any knot till you can tie it and check the knot in pitch dark and get it right every time, not only on yourself but from the opposite perspective ['back to front'] such as a tie in on someone else's harness.
I like EBSB as well. As you described, it simply does not give, an exceptional Bowline variant. My only issue with this knot is I have found it a little more difficult to dress properly. That being said, in the end it is one of the most, if not the most, secure end line Bowline knots I have ever seen.
@@txtoolcrib I have learned the EBSB and, though It is overkill for my non-climbing uses, I do find it easier and clearer to check than other secure bowline variants. It has clear patterns to it visually and to touch. Other folks may disagree.... I'll probably stick to the Scott for my day to day jobs.
I have just in the past year learned the Zeppelin loop (which is supposed to maintain over 80% of rope strength) and as you say, mastery entails being able to consistently tie it in the dark. Because the Zeppelin loop has leads in 4 perpendicular directions it is easy to check.
Great to see PACI work mentioned. I like this bowline...my go to now: I had been using a 'double loop dutch' bowline, but this is simpler and faster to tie. Allan Lee has a variation that is very secure, but uses more rope than most people own. 🙂
I work for a tree service and use the standard or Yosemite bowline all the time. While it works great for the more pliable rigging and climbing ropes, it’s always felt a little sketchy on the stiffer 3 strand ropes we use sometimes. I can’t wait to try this out. Thanks!
All of your videos are fantastic. Very well explained- both in use and why it works- anfd tied. Each step well explained. I love watching you work, keep it up!!!
I just tested this loop on a heavy load, and it untied easily. This loop is my new favorite over the double dragon, which was my favorite loop for years.
Will try this when bending sheets to jib crews... typically we use bowlines ... short loop long tails .. the clews really flap around in tacks and with stiffer lines I can see how a standard bowline could come loose.. With synthetic lines .. most sheets are made with a short eye splice and we use a short shackle to attach to the clew
I have learnt to secure the bowline loop by tying a half hitch with the end of the line around the adjacent part of the loop. This is an interesting alternative!
I have used and taught the Zeppelin knot for over 40 years, but just recently added the Zeppelin loop. I have read that the Zeppelin loop maintains over 80% of rope strength.
I've just watched a video of a bowline tied with dyneema being tested between two truck tow bars. The loop collapsed and then the rope slipped out of the knot under tension..
I've used this knot for about 15 years with about 6 or so years in the middle when I decided trusting my own invented knot was not too sensible, then I saw Scott's bowline online and thought two things - 1. seems like other people have seen the benefit and it therefore maybe it *is* safe enough for my lead climbing now and 2, damn! I missed out on getting my own knot named...
I do have to admit. My initial impression was "Great, Let's see how to complicate something that's not a problem" But having the experience with the bowline that I do, this knot increases the diameter or the 2 initial stress points related to the bowling knot. As I'm sure you know, increasing the diameter of a stress/pinch point also increases it's strength. This should work well with water rescue to alleviate hastily tied bowlines.
Thanks for your good work - and this is one of the better knot tutorial videos out in the wild. I do have some feedback for you - and I'm giving you this feedback in good faith :) [ ] at 1:06: This is the 'collar' [ ] at 1:13: This is the 'nipping loop' (not nipping turn). In fact, it is a right-hand nipping turn (ie 'Z' chirality). You can also tie it with a left-hand nipping loop (ie 'S' chirality). All 'Bowlines' have a nipping loop (this is the essential defining geometric characteristic). Scotts locked Bowline is impressive on account of its simplicity, and also because it has 3 rope diameters inside the nipping loop.
I have yet to have the opportunity to tie a bowline to a headsail, I don't own my own boat, but I know that some literature describes using a bowline for the headsail. Definitely the headsail sheets go slack and i can see where this improvement could be a much reliable improvement. That said, I've never seen a headsail sheet come undone, but who knows.
I love this bowline. It’s only drawback is that it isn’t particularly intuitive to look at. The knot is simple but confusing looking and hard to double check on your climbing partner. That’s why I prefer the EBSB for climbing, but I still love the simplicity of the Scott’s
I really like Scott's locked bowline, thanks for introducing me to it. But I just saw this other video that made me worry about it - any thoughts? do you think it might have been incorrectly tied? th-cam.com/video/FdjatFCItHE/w-d-xo.html
Not at all, that video is terribly misleading. It shows this knot being loaded from the loop instead of against the loop. Scott’s Locked Bowline is one of the most secure Bowline variants, use it properly and you’ll have no trouble. This video is akin to draining the oil out of your car, trying to drive it, then blaming the engine manufacturer for engine failure.
@@txtoolcrib Thanks for explaining, that makes a lot of sense. For another fixed loop which is good at "from inside the loop loading", I think the Eskimo bowline is probably one of the best.
@Anonymous Won I haven't tried it the way you mention. I have done it by going counter-clockwise around a post, then tying a cowboy bowline going the "wrong" direction on the standing end. However, I discovered a much better way. Just look up the Kalmyk loop - which is the same thing as a slipped Eskimo. There's a superfast way to tie it by holding the working end in your left hand. Let me know if you don't find it and I can send you a link. Also - if you use the same technique but pass the slipped end all the way through, you can tie an Eskimo bowline ridiculously fast (under 1 second with a bit of practice).
@Anonymous Won The Kalmyk is a slipped eskimo bowline. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_bowline . It's just upside down, you have to twist and turn it a bit to recognize it.
If you pull the free end with the loop unloaded, it tends to capsize into an unsafe form. Be careful, some people who are promoting this knot are censoring critics. Red flag city.
@@txtoolcrib This is the finish backup we arborist trust while climbing over 100 ft aloft. Because it doesn't turn the bowline into some completely different knot like the scotts locked. The weight of what ever is set in the bowline yosemite will not come undone. If you really want to be triple sure tie a figure 8 on the end of your tail after the yosemite.
The benefit to the Yosemite is that it gets the tail out of loop, nothing more. The Scott’s Locked adds another lock on the working end while also getting rid of the tail inside the loop. I don’t disagree that the Yosemite is a good knot, but it is disingenuous to offhand say it is better than this version, simply because the Yosemite is what you have always used. The Yosemite also has a downside when tied by novices. If it dressed incorrectly, it can be extremely dangerous. Though I don’t consider that an argument against the knot itself. Both knots work on the same premise. Get the tail outside of the loop while providing a more stable knot. I choose this one. For context, I am a millwright, and depend on knots just as much as an arborist.
@@txtoolcrib I completely agree with you. If you tie or dress the Yosemite wrong it could be dangerous or fatal especially for a climber. I’ll have to give the Scott’s lock a try for a non climbing application. Thanks for the chat.
learn to tie the zeppelin loop and bend all this nonsense to make an inferior knot "work" is ludicrous. the bowline has it's intended uses it's not a climbing knot to begin with hence the name
I teach knots to sailors and have read the article you mention. I teach them that this has all the advantages of a bowline but is much more secure. Thank you for the clear exposition.
Your knot tying videos are excellent and this one is no exception. This bowline version is a new one for me and is now in my repertoire. Thank you.
You’re most welcome, and I appreciate the compliment.
I am using this to make a loop in the rope for my tire swing. I have the rope draped over the tree right now and I’m about to put the other end through my loop and pull it up to the tree branch. So I have to do it right the first time because I’m not climbing this tree! Thank you! Best knot I’ve found so I decided to do it and your instructional walked me right through it! Only thing I’m doing differently is lots of duct tape on the tail.
You should lash the tail by using a thin rope. Duct tape will deteriorate in the rain and sun.
I learned to tie a one-handed Bowline when I was about 8 years old, 66 years ago. This is a nice improvement.
I have been tying and teaching the Zeppelin knot for over 40 years, but recently learned the Zeppelin loop which I am reading maintains over 80% of rope strength. It is fairly easy to tie and incredibly secure, yet easy to untie when you are through with it.
I remember using this knot before it was named Scott. I can't believe it. I also came up with my own locked knot. It is a combination of Yosemite and Scott's Locked, which I called it "Loo's Locked Bowline". Tie the knot as if you are going to tie Yosemite and then use the Scott's Locked in the end. It is a great locked knot.
I have been using the Yosemite Bowline a lot lately, the Yosemite finish combined with a stopper knot or something above creates a very stable knot that I have been appreciating. I am going to have to compare this new (to me) variant with that one to see which I like better.
What were your results? I like the Scott's bowline. The problem with the Yosemite bowline is that it relies entirely on the upper collar to nip the working end, but the upper collar is not great at nipping. The Yosemite bowline looks pretty though.
I have used the Scott for for a few years for general farm work, as it is more secure under intermittant loading and takes 2 seconds longer to tie. [I don't climb anything these days btw.]
My son does a great deal of lead climbing often entailing multiple falls in every climb. He has always used the double figure eight for harness tie in but finally got sick of having to cut off seized knots. He changed to the EBSB [end bound single bowline] about a year ago. His source for the knot was the same as yours ....PACI. Initially, he tied a double overhand back up knot but has stopped doing this as the EBSB has never moved. The real advantage is that it has never jammed up on him so his ropes [and his temper] last longer.
He also speaks of another advantage. It is extremely quick to adjust the size of the harness loop even after the knot has been very heavily loaded .... something you cannot say of a fig 8. He normally ties in with a larger loop and then snugs it down to finish.
Disadvantage of the EBSB [and any other secure bowline variant] is that other climbers are not familiar with the knot and are understandably nervous when it comes to Buddy checking. Amongst his group of regular climbers there are quite a few other converts to this knot but, in other company, there are times he resorts to the fig 8 so that fellow climbers can be confident in climbing with him.
Another thing on which he is adamant is, that you have not properly learned how to tie any knot till you can tie it and check the knot in pitch dark and get it right every time, not only on yourself but from the opposite perspective ['back to front'] such as a tie in on someone else's harness.
I like EBSB as well. As you described, it simply does not give, an exceptional Bowline variant. My only issue with this knot is I have found it a little more difficult to dress properly. That being said, in the end it is one of the most, if not the most, secure end line Bowline knots I have ever seen.
@@txtoolcrib
I have learned the EBSB and, though It is overkill for my non-climbing uses, I do find it easier and clearer to check than other secure bowline variants. It has clear patterns to it visually and to touch. Other folks may disagree....
I'll probably stick to the Scott for my day to day jobs.
I have just in the past year learned the Zeppelin loop (which is supposed to maintain over 80% of rope strength) and as you say, mastery entails being able to consistently tie it in the dark. Because the Zeppelin loop has leads in 4 perpendicular directions it is easy to check.
Great to see PACI work mentioned. I like this bowline...my go to now: I had been using a 'double loop dutch' bowline, but this is simpler and faster to tie. Allan Lee has a variation that is very secure, but uses more rope than most people own. 🙂
I work for a tree service and use the standard or Yosemite bowline all the time. While it works great for the more pliable rigging and climbing ropes, it’s always felt a little sketchy on the stiffer 3 strand ropes we use sometimes. I can’t wait to try this out. Thanks!
All of your videos are fantastic. Very well explained- both in use and why it works- anfd tied. Each step well explained. I love watching you work, keep it up!!!
Thank you sir, I appreciate that.
I just tested this loop on a heavy load, and it untied easily. This loop is my new favorite over the double dragon, which was my favorite loop for years.
That is a beautiful knot. Extremely nice solution to a problem. Well made video too my friend, keep up the good work!
Will try this when bending sheets to jib crews... typically we use bowlines ... short loop long tails .. the clews really flap around in tacks and with stiffer lines I can see how a standard bowline could come loose..
With synthetic lines .. most sheets are made with a short eye splice and we use a short shackle to attach to the clew
I have learnt to secure the bowline loop by tying a half hitch with the end of the line around the adjacent part of the loop. This is an interesting alternative!
The over-under-over reminds me of a hannson loop. For loops in general I prefer a zeppelin. Stable, compact and jam proof.
I have used and taught the Zeppelin knot for over 40 years, but just recently added the Zeppelin loop. I have read that the Zeppelin loop maintains over 80% of rope strength.
Simple and effective. Thank you for sharing.
Absolutely, always appreciate you guys taking the time to watch.
Excellent video. Love the technical analysis of the knot.
Great video and info, thanks
Edit: it'd be interesting to compare this knot to the perfection loop knot
I've just watched a video of a bowline tied with dyneema being tested between two truck tow bars. The loop collapsed and then the rope slipped out of the knot under tension..
I love your channel and I still see that Leatherman still have the charge tti and charge+ still on the website
Thank you. I plan on calling them soon to see if we can get some insight into which models are scheduled to be discontinued.
Very nice knot. I found this very helpful.
I've used this knot for about 15 years with about 6 or so years in the middle when I decided trusting my own invented knot was not too sensible, then I saw Scott's bowline online and thought two things - 1. seems like other people have seen the benefit and it therefore maybe it *is* safe enough for my lead climbing now and 2, damn! I missed out on getting my own knot named...
Fultonius knot simply isn’t as catchy.
I do have to admit. My initial impression was "Great, Let's see how to complicate something that's not a problem" But having the experience with the bowline that I do, this knot increases the diameter or the 2 initial stress points related to the bowling knot. As I'm sure you know, increasing the diameter of a stress/pinch point also increases it's strength. This should work well with water rescue to alleviate hastily tied bowlines.
I absolutely agree.
Thanks for your good work - and this is one of the better knot tutorial videos out in the wild.
I do have some feedback for you - and I'm giving you this feedback in good faith :)
[ ] at 1:06: This is the 'collar'
[ ] at 1:13: This is the 'nipping loop' (not nipping turn). In fact, it is a right-hand nipping turn (ie 'Z' chirality). You can also tie it with a left-hand nipping loop (ie 'S' chirality).
All 'Bowlines' have a nipping loop (this is the essential defining geometric characteristic).
Scotts locked Bowline is impressive on account of its simplicity, and also because it has 3 rope diameters inside the nipping loop.
Wow, I’m sorry I missed your comment. Would you be the very same Mark Gommers that authored this article?
How thick is the orange rope in the video?
I have yet to have the opportunity to tie a bowline to a headsail, I don't own my own boat, but I know that some literature describes using a bowline for the headsail. Definitely the headsail sheets go slack and i can see where this improvement could be a much reliable improvement. That said, I've never seen a headsail sheet come undone, but who knows.
I love this bowline. It’s only drawback is that it isn’t particularly intuitive to look at. The knot is simple but confusing looking and hard to double check on your climbing partner. That’s why I prefer the EBSB for climbing, but I still love the simplicity of the Scott’s
Like the Scott’s lock. I also used it with a double bowline. Would there be any advantages or disadvantages that you can think of?
Apart from adding an extra step to tie it, I see no disadvantage. In fact I think it’s a great idea.
I know this isn't knot related but would you consider doing a quick video on all the price increases that Leatherman just had?
Well, that is actually a good idea. I’ve got nothing else to do seeing as I am in quarantine right now.
@@txtoolcrib Ouch.. Get well brother and stay safe. Hopefully you're vaxed/boosted and this will only manifest as a minor case in terms of symptoms.
Cheers Mate!
Wow that's well cool cherz mate
Would you suggest a double overhand backup knot for climbing, or just the scotts bowline itself?
Personally, I would add a safety using a longer tail. I think in that kind of situation you can never be too safe.
Does it release easily
after heavy load?
Excellent, thank you.
I immediately understand what was happening with the knot by seeing the thumbnail.
That's what I love about this variant. Anyone familiar with the bowline can instantly understand it just by looking at it.
Is this better than a bowline on a bight? That seems like a solid knot.
Can you tie bowing on bight around an object?
Nice
I really like Scott's locked bowline, thanks for introducing me to it. But I just saw this other video that made me worry about it - any thoughts? do you think it might have been incorrectly tied? th-cam.com/video/FdjatFCItHE/w-d-xo.html
Not at all, that video is terribly misleading. It shows this knot being loaded from the loop instead of against the loop. Scott’s Locked Bowline is one of the most secure Bowline variants, use it properly and you’ll have no trouble. This video is akin to draining the oil out of your car, trying to drive it, then blaming the engine manufacturer for engine failure.
@@txtoolcrib Thanks for explaining, that makes a lot of sense. For another fixed loop which is good at "from inside the loop loading", I think the Eskimo bowline is probably one of the best.
It is one of the better ones.
@Anonymous Won I haven't tried it the way you mention. I have done it by going counter-clockwise around a post, then tying a cowboy bowline going the "wrong" direction on the standing end. However, I discovered a much better way. Just look up the Kalmyk loop - which is the same thing as a slipped Eskimo. There's a superfast way to tie it by holding the working end in your left hand. Let me know if you don't find it and I can send you a link. Also - if you use the same technique but pass the slipped end all the way through, you can tie an Eskimo bowline ridiculously fast (under 1 second with a bit of practice).
@Anonymous Won The Kalmyk is a slipped eskimo bowline. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_bowline . It's just upside down, you have to twist and turn it a bit to recognize it.
If you pull the free end with the loop unloaded, it tends to capsize into an unsafe form. Be careful, some people who are promoting this knot are censoring critics. Red flag city.
Combine that with the extra loop of a water bowline and you’ve got one hell of a knot.
A Bowline with a Yosemite finish is superior to this my friend
Yeah? How so?
@@txtoolcrib This is the finish backup we arborist trust while climbing over 100 ft aloft. Because it doesn't turn the bowline into some completely different knot like the scotts locked. The weight of what ever is set in the bowline yosemite will not come undone. If you really want to be triple sure tie a figure 8 on the end of your tail after the yosemite.
The benefit to the Yosemite is that it gets the tail out of loop, nothing more. The Scott’s Locked adds another lock on the working end while also getting rid of the tail inside the loop. I don’t disagree that the Yosemite is a good knot, but it is disingenuous to offhand say it is better than this version, simply because the Yosemite is what you have always used. The Yosemite also has a downside when tied by novices. If it dressed incorrectly, it can be extremely dangerous. Though I don’t consider that an argument against the knot itself. Both knots work on the same premise. Get the tail outside of the loop while providing a more stable knot. I choose this one. For context, I am a millwright, and depend on knots just as much as an arborist.
@@txtoolcrib I completely agree with you. If you tie or dress the Yosemite wrong it could be dangerous or fatal especially for a climber. I’ll have to give the Scott’s lock a try for a non climbing application. Thanks for the chat.
Absolutely, thanks for your input.
learn to tie the zeppelin loop and bend all this nonsense to make an inferior knot "work" is ludicrous. the bowline has it's intended uses it's not a climbing knot to begin with hence the name
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