*COUPLE OF THINGS* 1) I am obviously not an immigration expert, hence the "THEORY" part in the title. Any corrections are welcome and will hopefully be addressed in the next comment response video! 2) Here's that video on our second channel. Give it a watch! th-cam.com/video/2xibDv15wUE/w-d-xo.html 3) I love all of you
It's a hypothesis in technical language, but since we're on TH-cam realizing informal science, it doesn't count as much so just shut your traps and let us be happy with whatever hell he decides to call his chimichanga immugrant
Matheus Pereira Sorry, the conflation of theory and hypothesis is one of my pet peeves. (It's up there with "irreducible complexity," and for much the same reason.)
I agree with you, but formal science is a crap, too much name's, and less creativity, here we have the opposite Even though you're right, sometimes we should just relax for the video, the content is well done even though the names aren't. This is fun science Not formal, formal is for documentation, this is for debate and healthy thinking
I think it's important to point out that while it could be seen as Superman siding with his immigrant roots over his American roots, he was also simply stopping a mass murder.
Yeah, not letting immigrants be killed isn't a complex moral issue. As much as I hate to say it, thinking that there's two reasonable sides to "Should these folk be shot to death," kinda makes those critics... not super.
I kinda liked the way that the tv series *Smallville* tackled this. _Lionel Luther helped the Kents, using his money & power to get baby Kal-El documentation_
So I don't remember but did Lionel ever hold that against them? If he didn't that would be an almost shockingly decent move for such a slimy character. (We at least know he didn't hold it against them _for the many years_ before his character appeared on the show.)
Honestly, he does nothing but save people and protect earth, so it shouldn't matter what kind of citizen Sup's is. He's the hero of Earth, regardless of nationality.
Cake# They should just do the paper work and not worry about it. If they don't do the paper work then the government labels them as a threat, this is because they are unaccounted for when acts of terrorism happens. Illegal immigrants is just a nice way of saying invading terrorist, the difference being a invading terrorist both hates this country and isn't in the cenus, so when acts of terrorism are being investigated they can't find the illegal that did it because the cenus doesn't show their name!!! If they are on the cenus, then they are legal to some degree and are fine, those immigrants have my support, and the undocumented ones that are trying to get their papers done have my support
I haven't seen since Rebirth but in New 52 she was straight-up undocumented and they didn't go into much detail about how she managed to pass. She immediately meets Siobhan Smythe whose powers somehow grant Kara the ability to read/speak/understand English so there's not even that. It could've been a _really_ interesting exploration of the character and her situation but they just hand-waved most of it away. In the TV show there's a pretty hasty explanation that the Danvers could somehow forge all the necessary paperwork and I haven't seen the pilot in a while but I think her pod teaches her English enroute through magic Kryptonian technology? IDK if I'm remembering that right though.
I feel as though Superman's official immigration status is of lesser importance than what he symbolizes. He is the embodiment of what America can be; a refuge for those who need protection, a leader in equality amongst all, a shining ray of hope for all those who need it. Getting caught up in the semantics of who is and isn't a citizen is divisive and honestly kind of pointless. Even if Superman was deemed undocumented, would that make him any less American? Of course not! He is literally the amalgamation of the ideals that form this country. Like many others, even if Clark Kent/Kal-El isn't a citizen on paper, he exhibts the notions, charcteristics, and passions of America. EDIT: or maybe I’m unrealistically idealist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Good job Scott!!!
Sydney Bryant They should just do the paper work and not worry about it. If they don't do the paper work then the government labels them as a threat, this is because they are unaccounted for when acts of terrorism happens. Illegal immigrants is just a nice way of saying invading terrorist, the difference being a invading terrorist both hates this country and isn't in the cenus, so when acts of terrorism are being investigated they can't find the illegal that did it because the cenus doesn't show their name!!! If they are on the cenus, then they are legal to some degree and are fine, those immigrants have my support, and the undocumented ones that are trying to get their papers done have my support
Well said - that he is an immigrant doesn't make him less American. I would argue that being part of something else or coming from some other place is an essential piece of the American experience; that you can be both wholly an immigrant and wholly American. In fact, most of us are, to one degree or another.
He's not an immigrant. Legally he's either a US citizen since that was the first country on Earth he was in or the Kent family pet since he's not human.
Superman is for EVERYBODY. When he says he is here to fight for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way", he fights for the American ideals as Captain America does. Tastes change and what a country may mean to a political movement may mean different things, but the underlying ideals of America are ideals that these characters stand for and that is what they fight for.
Not necessarily. There is a reason why Superman often omits the "American Way" line these days and/or the Justice League cartoons leave out the "of America" part. It's quite alienating to those outside the US. The ideals of "Truth and Justice" are global and for everybody, without a nationalistic slant. It's one of the reasons Captain America wasn't all that popular outside of the US prior to the MCU and/or Ultimate Universe.
The amount of research, comprehension and explanation in these videos is astounding...holy cow, is there a college professor out there just using this channel as curriculum yet?
Did you know In a 1966 issue of Action Comics, editors revealed that Clark Kent’s SSN is 092-09-6616 that number actually belonged to a New Yorker, Giobatta Baiocchi, who had died a year earlier
I think this IS really important. Seigel and Schuster had a very important intent for Superman, as the defender of Truth and Justice, a paragon of good! And especially now, when what is considered "american ideals" become more and more muddled and controversial, it's important that we have heroes like Superman and Captain America, who have been (at least In Tellings true to their debut) defenders of what SHOULD be good and American, not what is considered American at the time.
Marble Ramirez Good point. I'm pretty sure that's what the "American way" means. It's the acknowledgement that all people are created equal, have individual freedom, and have the unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That's what the American way really is, and that's what Superman has always stood for. And that doesn't mean Superman doesn't stand for the entire world. The principles of the American way are universal.
I kind of like Superman being an immigrant cause it relates to myself, super man came from a different place looking for a better life as an infant and arrived to Kansas where he was raised , and I came from a different place looking for a better life as an infant and was raised in Kansas too, and having superman being an immigrant gives me hope, that someday I also can do great things.
Sorry to rain on your parade but legally he's one of two things: 1: A legal US citizen since Kansas is his state of origin [nowhere off world is legally recognised]. 2: The Kent family pet since he's not human. Either way, he's not an immigrant by immigration laws.
@@duncanmcokiner4242 Slight correction: any land in space that's not occupied by an active base or vessel is legally recognised as being international waters.
@@duncanmcokiner4242 Yes, it is. There are very specific international rules relating to people born in international waters and stateless people overall.
Yes, I go with the original story. Superman is an immigrant who's upbringing gave him the sense of Justice that should be the American way. Funny how people assume that means the USA way. Maybe it's that North American way or a combination of North, Central and South American ways. I always took it as being what's on the Statue of Liberty. Good words that ought to be true.
I think that standing up for immigrants IS the American way. As a country of immigrants all should be welcomed and bigoted views should not be tolerated, and i can’t think of a more American act for Superman to do in this day and age then save those immigrants. Great vid Scott! Keep up the good work!
It's so strange to me that certain parties want to pull back from that. If the American heritage is a proud one, be proud of that immigrant status! And, in turn, respect the current iterations of your ancestors. Their sacrifices for their children will shape the US, just like those that came before.
it is a young nation with not that many steps away from the majorities immegration status nolene, that is why it is called that, but you could also go with the more grusme natio of killing their naties in horrible ways
"I'm not from Krypton. I'm from Kansas." - Superman: American Alien. The American Way is an ideal, not a claim to only fight for America. It's the idea that everyone has the same basic human rights, and was created equal. And despite certain recent political claims, America is a country of immigrants, for immigrants. The land of opportunity. Superman was born on a planet that no longer exists. Any mementos he has from Krypton are parts of a history he keeps for record; he has no true emotional connection to them. He was raised in America, so those are the values he fights for all around the world. Oh, and he would save those immigrants from a gunman; he's SUPERMAN, he cares for all life everywhere. So the entire hubbub about the issue is stupid.
Given that Superman is probably my favorite superhero and also given the fact that I myself am a "Dreamer" I like to put it in my head cannon that YES, Superman is indeed a Dreamer as well. Just another way for me to relate to this amazing character I've grown to love, showing me that no matter my immigration status, I can do good and instill Hope in the hearts of others, just like he does. Jurgens did a wonderful job in this comic and I can't wait to see where it goes from here! Love ya Scott, thanks for all the videos!
Superman Clark Kent Why should I go back? I was brought here when I was only one year old. I have lived in the United States my entire life basically. I love my country, I love learning about its history and politics and culture, I am protected under DACA and then plan to further my immigration status through the long and arduous process of becoming a resident, heck I even plan on serving in the Military, serving this country. Doing things the right way, not lying about my status as an immigrant or trying to cheat my way out. I have a perfectly clean criminal record, and I am by no means perfect, but what fellow American is? Yes I came from a different country and I do hold onto the cultural values from where I was born, but I am an American. My immigration status and they way I view myself are not the same. I am proud to be part of the looong line of immigrants that help make this country great.
I like the sentiment of Clark being for truth and justice specifically. Clark’s written more to be more human than most people. Back when he was primarily an American hero it made sense to say the American way. Now that he’s more of a global hero it’s appropriate that he’s supposed to be the example of being a good person
You know what matters to me? That in this era where we are over saturated with redundant think piece bloggers and click farming headline factories, there can still be valuable content creators who take time and effort to bring insightful content to their audience such as the team over at Nerdsync. Thanks always for a great show.
i just realized man of steel miniseries of 1986 was the first time i ever read the origins of superman! The pages are still very bright in my memories, this took me back. thanks scott!
Andrew Benge They should just do the paper work and not worry about it. If they don't do the paper work then the government labels them as a threat, this is because they are unaccounted for when acts of terrorism happens. Illegal immigrants is just a nice way of saying invading terrorist, the difference being a invading terrorist both hates this country and isn't in the cenus, so when acts of terrorism are being investigated they can't find the illegal that did it because the cenus doesn't show their name!!! If they are on the cenus, then they are legal to some degree and are fine, those immigrants have my support, and the undocumented ones that are trying to get their papers done have my support
Superman has been called difficult to write for with justifiable reasons. But what always makes the character compelling is his position as a "Man of two worlds".
First of all, I like the phrase “Intergalactic Moses!” Secondly, I think it is important to discuss the definition of “citizen,” as well as the implications of that label. Why do certain people “deserve” rights because they were born here without any choice, and others don’t “deserve” rights because they were not born here against their will? If we believe that these rights are important for people, then we should want to extend those rights to all people living in America, OR we should require everyone to earn those rights, regardless if they were born here or not...
Scott... I LOVE the evolution and production quality of your videos! You are amazing at what you do, it’s so easy to see the passion and love you have for what you talk about. Keep up the fantastic work!!
I absolutely love what you are doing with this episode. It's a hard subject and you took it on with grace and dignity. Well done. That out of the way, I take two issues with your video. 1) Of course Superman would save a group of undocumented aliens from a gun totting mad man because he is superman. Anyone fighting for "Truth, Justice and America" would do the same. If the roles were reversed, you rest assured that the Man of Steel save U.S. citizens from a foreign psycho with the ardour as in the first instance. Nationality would play zero role here. 2) Only a select group of people know that Clark is Sups, therefore any argument made on either side of the issue about Superman is moot. Clark Kent is registered, Superman is not. Clark is a U.S. citizen but that doesn't automatically make Superman a citizen until he would reveal his alter ego. Thar said, if the government grants Superman citizenship but for some reason revokes Clark's we are still in the same position. Again unless Superman reveals that he is also Clark. But if he did that then he would be admitting the multiple lies told to the government, thus voiding his current status. And now my brain hurts and everything is starting to smell of copper. I need to go lie down. Good day sir.
Something you forgot is these rules only apply to humans, technically superman can't be deported any more than a monarch butterfly or a migratory bird. This also means he would have no human rights ether.
@ULGROTHA in those realities except DH and some regions of middle earth the laws are specifically written with non human sentient beings in mind. The non humans have no rights issue comes up in DH from time to time.
Star Trek: Non of them are illegally there. Doctor Who: He doesn't live on Earth. Lord Of The Rings: Nation states don't exist in the same way as on Earth. Disney: Often no defined laws on non humans compared to humans.
I don't entirely understand this controversy. First we assume the workers are illegal immigrants, but is that assumption based on anything other then the fact that they are brown? (let me know if I'm wrong) What we do know however is that the man with the gun, regardless of his personal reasoning, is a violent criminal trying to mow down a group of unarmed people. Superman shows up and does what he has always done, saves lives and apprehends the criminal. Then when the criminal tries to make excuses for what we should ALL agree is inexcusable, Sups tells him to take responsibility for his own actions. What could be more American then that? Whatever your views on illegal and legal immigration we should all be able to stand by Superman in condemning extremest who think violence and hate has any place in resolving this complex political issue. Also, I want to point out, we seem to have forgotten recently that immigration is a big part of the "American Way." "The great melting pot," "the american dream," "a country built by immigrants," "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" these are all cornerstones of the american ideal that Superman represents.
Mikayla Eager The fact that the shooter was a white guy with an American flag bandana who was screaming "They took our jobs!" is just a stupid way to politicize what should be a simple and uncontroversial moment. Even if those people were illegal immigrants, Superman would have saved them. Not because they were immigrants, but because they were defenseless. Of course, that doesn't mean Superman is a defender of illegals. Like any superhero, he should uphold justice and the law.
That's what I thought from reading that panel. He wasn't taking a political stance, other then a stance against allowing crazy gunman to mow down defenseless people. Unless you believe anyone that might (or might not) be an illegal immigrant deserves to die, there shouldn't be any controversy here. If someone decided to take a gun into the Westboro church Superman would stop them too. That doesn't mean he approves of their politics, he just values human life.
Marc Sherman I mean, it is scarily accurate to our current situation. In my time on the Internet, I’ve seen plenty of people who like to tout themselves as patriots but would gladly see immigrants and asylum seekers deported or killed. It’s not just needless politicization, it’s in a way making it kind of more plausible.
I wonder if you know for a fact that the abandoned baby you found came from another planet, is there technically any legal obligation to reveal that fact to the government?
My family are immigrants (Polish to Ireland) and, even though we moved here when I was younger than I can properly remember, I identify myself as Polish and not Irish. In fact, I have Irish citizenship but I still identify more with Poland. I guess it's just the way that I was brought up, but I do kinnda take issue with the fact that Superman just kind of slips into being an American and mostly ignores his Kryptonian culture.
Sci-Fi Pie would you describe yourself as Polish if you were adopted by strangers as a baby in a different country, let's say Ireland, or would you then be Irish?
I think there is a reason for this. DC Comics does not want to acknowledge that Superman is actually smarter than their Bat-god cash cow. Since if Kal-El did fully acknowledge his Kryptonian heritage they would have to have his Fortress of Solitude in his story and he would use that to educate himself of his heritage and learn what he can from his parents including especially his Science Guild father Jor-El. And the fact that the El family were a major Kryptonian royal dynasty.
Robert T what sci-fi pie said is like superman even tho he was born somewhere and raised somewhere else, he identifies himself more from where he grew up than where he was born. Of course still had to mention that he was born from that other place. so ur hypothetical question doesn't make sense. Or what exactly r u asking?
See, I'd argue the opposite. I'm adopted (from South Korea) and from the age of 8 months have lived in America, raised by American parents (white American parents if that makes a difference). I identify solely as American-- why would I identify as a culture that I have no memory and little knowledge of? Obviously the case of Superman is different-- each day he's reminded that he is not from this planet-- but he's still raised by Americans, and, in recent versions, does not learn of Krypton and it's history until adulthood. I like to view Kal-El as the Kryptonian with whatever knowledge continuity has given him about his birth planet, Clark Kent as the can't-get-much-more-American-than-Kansas American, and Superman as the personality that binds those two together. He wouldn't be Superman if not for his Kryptonian birthright and powers and the Kent's values. (To supplement this, I also like the headcanon of the costume being a mix of his unique heritages-- spandex was Martha's idea and the cape? His baby blanket. Or I guess the curtain if you go a more Birthright route.)
Another thought provoking video! Initially this felt a bit esoteric but you quickly changed my mind, helping me to understand *why* people have such strong reactions to Superman, even if they don't understand themselves. Keep up the great work!
I absolutely loved that part of the issue. I know some people think entertainment should stay away from politics, but if you have a platform by which you can show people a positive thing, it should be used by all means
I always assumed John and Martha Kent just got him a birth certificate as an orphan they just found. Seems like it's a lot more complicated than all that. Also that Man of Steel miniseries was one of the few Superman comics I had as a kid (I was more of a cartoon fan, my copy was a hard back kids version of the series) so that probably coloured my understanding of it, along with the animated series. Cool way to explore these laws btw, relevant too. I agree with you about the universal Superman btw Scott. I talk about this a lot in my comments, but I am a Christian and a Canadian myself, so the American champion part of superman always struck me as kind silly and cringe worthy. I appreciate it as part of his heritage, I actually think (as an outsider looking in) Supe's struggles between his universal calling to protect the weak and his loyalty reflects the cultural struggle America itself has had throughout its history. America has always been caught between doing the loyal and doing the right things, such as with native issues, the civil war, civil rights, and recent immigration crises. I mean, it is obvious to anyone's conscience that the poor and those fleeing violence should be cared for, but loyalty to american systems and an american identity makes it hard to fully accept this responsibility. If we're going to look at Superman as being emblematic of America, or even of the universal human, this struggle is very real and powerful. I don't read many comics myself, as I said, I'm a cartoon fan, but I think portraying this struggle and having supes wrestle with it is a good thing. Also, Superman isn't perfect, so even if you disagree with his ultimate decision, I think one should still appreciate that Supes did struggle and wrestle with his conscience. In the case of that recent comic you mentioned, I think it was a clear case of Superman choosing to stop violence, and he very purposefully didn't weigh in on the immigration issue. From what I can tell, it has been blown out of proportion because news sites have to make money.
You also have to remember that Superman’s origins were initially written during the Great Depression. Back then there wasn’t quite so much paperwork involved in proving your identity, and it wasn’t uncommon for parents who couldn’t take care of their own kids to leave them with a close friend or distant relative in a better financial situation than themselves.
*Answer to the comment question:* Honestly, I don't think it matters. Isn't that the point? The fact that Superman's nationality has nothing to do with his values or beliefs is probably one of his coolest aspects. Sure, you can see him as an immigrant, refugee, legal American, or whatever...but none of it changes the fact that Superman is a hero because of what he's done and continues to do. He doesn't need nation to back up his identity...his own actions, choices, and sacrifices speak loud enough.
Would Superman try to became an American Citizen if he is not? Also Lets go back to the original Superman were he fights only for truth and justices. Superman has been Americanized for sure but better he is a Citizen of earth and fights for all of earth and doesn't just become a puppet for the American Government and for American patriotism. He should be free to think for himself and be his own person. So I like the idea of Superman saving Undocumented Imagits. Keep him true to the original Superman.
Amber Higgins Patriotism existed way before the US had a government. It was more of an identity/community thing rather than some blind trust in government. In fact, the most "patriotic" among us are actually very critical, and want less government.
Superman Clark Kent, Patraismom was used by the Romans to get people to accept the Empire and the Emperors. It was also Used by the British government to get people to Accept the British Union of the United Kingdom and the British government. Don't get me wrong I love the British people and the UK, but we took our Patriotism from the British government. Red, white and Blue comes from the British flag colors first before the U.S Flag and so does National Anthems at sporting event, or as the British say Matches. Both the British and the Romans used Patriotism to get people to accept the government and its rule. In Truth Patriotism is just a tool of the government which many Americans are blind too.
As someone who moved to America as a three year old, the Superman origin story and status as an immigrant, foreigner, and quintessential American is super empowering and inspirational. I had someone back in highschool say that who could you actually be, an alien with superpowers (Superman) or really rich (Batman). To him the obvious answer was anyone could be rich, but for me, I really felt like an alien growing up, so for me the answer was that I could be Superman
I find it hilarious that in one issue he straight up tells a reporter "they can't deport me, my home planet no longer exists". In more Superman-esque dialogue, but you get the idea.
*Ive always hated that "American way" bull. Superman protects earth. Hes not bound by borders or legislation. He does what he has to do to save earth and so let him fight for the things that we all deserve, truth and justice and freedom. But leave the patriotism to small minded men.*
*I was born in Lincoln Nebraska and am far from patriotic. Superman has one of the greatest minds in DC. I believe he sees past governments and flags. I believe he fights for virtues, not for colors painted on fabric or selfish pride.*
Truth, justice and freedom are American values and huge parts of the American way. Or maybe I'm just small minded and you're superior to me. (I hope that sarcasm was obvious.)
*Doc Jabberwock Im differentiating between someone who supports a country that supposedly has those values, and someone who supports those values because of who they are and their personal moral compass, not because that is what has been instilled within them.*
While I agree that he defends and save Earth on a regular basis, I have to disagree with the notion that Superman should leave his patriotism at the door. Rather, it's because Superman is patriotic that he save the world. His entire worldview was shaped by American family. It was America who made Superman. In theory, he could have landed elsewhere and still learn to defend the world, but in practice Superman's Americanism is part of what makes him Superman. He was created to be American, despite not being American born, and that's the whole crux of Superman. He could look at all the objectively bad things happening in America and write it off, and go somewhere else, but he know America has its good, and that's what he fights for. Not the actual America, but the ideal America that took him in, even though they could have left him to die in the cornfield.
I wish they would bring This Superman into the movies something more heart felt. I like this channel a lot as it bring moral and symbolism in comics that most don't see or it slips their eye. Great work!
Of course he's an alien he's literally from another planet but a lot of his stuff is based on American ideals not necessarily America itself. In the comic where he protects illegal immigrants he's always going to protect whoever from someone who ever is trying to harm them no matter who they were. What's dumb is the people making the comics gave the guy an American bandana and literally a line from South Park, way to go DC just stereotype people who are patriotic into being racist Hillbillies.
The Post-Crisis origin you mention from the MOS mini-series showed Clark born on Earth. He was by that means a legit American citizen. The fact the Kents lied about who his parents were doesn't change that. Besides, if they'd said "We found him," the authorities could easily have taken the baby and not let them adopt him. Passing him off as their own doesn't change the fact he was born in the United States. The REAL problem is that with the recent merging of the "New 52" and "Post-Crisis/New Earth" timelines, it seems the birthing matrix went bye bye with the timeline change, and BABY Kal-El was sent to Earth, so the "he was actually born here" thing is no longer valid, which now opens up that whole nasty can of worms all over again... *sigh*
Superman: Birthright in 2003 replaced The Man of Steel as his post-Crisis origin story, and it changed Superman's origin back to being sent to Earth as a baby instead of being born here.
I am not american, but the origin story of superman is one of the most beautiful origin stories ever something a lot of people can relate to, his compassion , humility and his heroe's journey is deeply ingrained in our dna as humans, wether we recognize it or not.
I think Superman works better as a LEGAL immigrant. I think that it fits with Clark's boy scout personality and that he'd be the kind of person that would want to be LEGAL and obtain citizenship!
Assuming that he ever thought to question the legality of his citizenship to begin with... Being brought up to be an honest farmboy by the Kents he might not have thought to question the legality of their custody or his citizenship...
Knowledge or not, I'm saying he would trust his parents and might not have considered the possibility of them breaking citizenship laws by adopting him in the first place...
Well to be honest they would've had to break citizenship laws to keep him, if they told anyone they found a baby in a crashed spaceship he would've been seized by the government and we would've gotten the flashpoint Superman
Can you tell me how he can be a LEGAL immigrant? How was he supposed to get a visa before coming to the states? Also do you Even know of immigration law? People who crossed the border illegally can't just go to an office and request citizenship that is not how the system works. In the current system superman either marries for the documents or he would have to be deported to krypton and then apply to enter the country legally which yeah that would not work. I'm sorry if it is in conflict with your beliefs but supes entered the country Illegally and the only reason he has a citizenship is because the Kent committed fraud and lied to the government.
Even if he is a citizen he entered the country ILLEGALLY without documents. And his citizenship was obtained trough fraudulent means ( the kents basically lied to the goverment) so sorry to burst your bubble but yeah he is no different from the DACA kids.
I think the issue, no pun intended, isn't that he stood up for an immigrant, but that people are getting increasingly sick of seeing writers have their favorite characters definitely taking sides in muddy, complex issues. Illegal Immigration is a far more complex issue than just "they do jobs Americans don't want, and are good, hard working people who deserve amnesty and if you disagree you're a heartless bigot" and it's more complex than just " THEY TOOK OUR JOBS", but unfortunately, that's usually what the arguments come down to. Either you want the illegals to stay and you have a heart or you want them deported and you're a white supremacist. And seeing a bitter, flag-waving white supremacist trying to kill a kind, defenseless, illegal Mexican immigrant, only to be stopped by Superman is bound to ruffle some feathers, not because the people getting pissed are all bigots, but because a lot of people on the anti-illegal immigration side of the aisle are good people who are also Superman fans and it pisses people off to see writers depicting their heroes as taking a clear side in a complex issue as if that side is clearly the "right side". As much as some may disagree, for me, this is why seeing popular geek icons gender-swapped or race-swapped or iconic geek properties feature more non-white or women or LGBT people turns into an issue almost every time, nowadays. Not because there are just that many racist, sexist, homophobes etc, but because nearly every time these changes are made, they're made solely for ideological reasons backed up by the argument of "it's 20XX" as if not having these changes is some sort of regressive, barbaric way of thinking. I just think people just want to sit down and read comics and not be lectured to about feminism or Black Lives Matter or #MAGA because they get enough, maybe even too much, in just about all other media. It is escapist fantasy after all. But I digress.
Omar Harris. You're right.... Superman should have just let them get shot...... Greek gods being gender-swapped..... I wonder where I've seen that before?
Omar Harris Superheroe comics had always been political. Fighting crime, corruption, getting involve in wars (ww2, vietnam) I get that some people (aka biggots) are sick of SJW but this is no a "marvel" case, supes has always stand by the poor and the powerless. If people doesn't get that they should look up to another hero, like Captain Hydra
I can see your argument about political issues like illegal immigration and similar political issues, but as for heroes coming out as LGBT or having people of different races and genders pick up the mantel I think that's a separate issue. If we accept these characters as 'people'' then we accept that that is just what those 'people' are. Whether a woman, a poc, or LGBT isn't a political statement, it just is what it is. Rody taking on the Iron Man mantel back in the day wasn't a political comment, it was just part of the story.
No one said that Sups should let them get shot, just that the scene seems to depict a "complex" issue as a very black and white issue. Immigration is not bigots vs righteous people, and the sooner people realize that the sooner good solutions can be found. It not a problem that a character is gay, black, trans or some other minority. No one said that. It does however make for a pretty boring story if their whole identity is build around superficial characteristics. In other words to do a e.g. gay character right, is to make a great character, who just happens to be gay. The gay-part should just be one small part of a much more complex person.
+Jong Fuu More complex issues have always been simplified in comics due to their target demographic. Breaking down key points into a message on morality addressed to the young.
It's only illegal to come to America from another country. There is no law against space aliens coming here and as such they can't break the law by immigrating. He's either a legal US citizen since America is his country of origin or the Kent family pet since he's no human.
The "foundling clause" may postdate Superman, but there must be some earlier precedent. Stories of abandoned babies are as old as human history. There must be some older precedent, which was likely forgotten after the foundling clause replaced it. Also, in context... in the 30s, durring the depression, in some small, nowhere town... maybe they just didn't ask too many questions. "You found a baby, Mrs. Kent? Well... alright then. Have you decided on a name?"
For further context, some people sold some of their children durring the depression, to feed the rest. Many children were abandoned as well. It probably became common enough at the time, that people were willing to forego certain formalities, for the sake of everyone involved.
I don't care either way. It just bothers me that a comic feels the need to preach to us about these things. Yes, comics have always gotten political, but today it's often unnecessary and one-sided, divisive content that's ultimately bringing controversy into an unhealthy industry.
Carlos Rodriguez my biggest problem is how people blame the artist and writers behind the comics for making it more political but really artist and writers only draw and write about things that they see and for the most part they do it subconsciously trust me I know this is an artist and writer, it's the readers who make it more political, and of course they get mad at that.
If it was unnecessary nazis wouldn't be running over people with cars and having the president side by them. Lol and the industry is doing great. Since no other time except WWII comics have never been this popular as the time we live in.
If it was unnecessary nazis wouldn't be running over people with cars and having the president side by them. Lol and the industry is doing great. Since no other time except WWII comics have never been this popular as the time we live in.
Carlos Rodriguez you're a dumbass...they've always been political...The issue of Cap punching Hitler was BEFORE we had gone to war but SJWs like Stan Lee and Kirby wanted us to fight injustice...
I don't see how this could be interpreted as Superman "choosing a side" between Americans and immigrants. Supes is doing what he's always done: standing between those who would do harm and those who would be harmed. Were the situation reversed, like an illegal alien about to gun down a group of American citizens for reporting him to Immigration, Superman would be facing the other way and be just as blunt and angry.
I think a story involving this exact problem would make for a good story. A problem Clark can't punch his way out of. I would like to see this tackled in the Marvel MAX line of Hyperion stories. That series was always more 'Grounded" and it seems like a nice subject to tackle.
I once saw a Superman TV show where they brought up something about no fly zones and I immediately thought “Do you get a ticket for standing in the parking lot?”
If I remember right, the first comic by Joe Shuster and Jerry Segal, (way back in 1938), Superman was found by a farmer and left on the door step of an orphanage and was actually raised in the orphanage and not by the Kents. Correct me if I'm wrong.
An even more interesting interpretation of Supes' story is from Justice League: Gods and Monsters. Not only is his father Zod instead of Jor El, in this timeline he's raised by undocumented Mexican immigrants, and therefore grew up knowing what it's like to be discriminated against.
Before the video even starts, I gotta say it depends on the source used. In Smallville for instance, Luthor pulled strings to get him adopted, and file all the necessary paperwork. For most of the other ones, I would call him naturalized, he's been there all his life.
why dont people just make superman having a dual citizenship. one is, his from krypton and one's american. Like that dude travels all around the galaxies visits various planest and i dont think he would make that feat if it werent for his well respected kryptonian citizenship
Wouldn't that be great, not only does Superman have to deal with Lex and Joker teaming up, but poor Clark Kent gets a visit from Immigration about his legal status, and get the Daily Planet in trouble over hiring a possible illegal alien. I think it is more likely the government would go after Clark more than Supes, seeing that they could find some loophole or evidence against him. Great job as always, Scott!
Sir thank you for your videos i love that there others like me who care and take pride in the industry that love!! And yes i will throw some questions your way good ones!!
Superman stands for freedom, justice, and the future. As long as that is the case, he will defend people being assaulted whether immigrant, refugee, or native to the location of the incident. That is what matters to me.
*COUPLE OF THINGS*
1) I am obviously not an immigration expert, hence the "THEORY" part in the title. Any corrections are welcome and will hopefully be addressed in the next comment response video!
2) Here's that video on our second channel. Give it a watch! th-cam.com/video/2xibDv15wUE/w-d-xo.html
3) I love all of you
NerdSync it's midnight GO TO SLEEP!!!
Erm...that's not what "theory" means. Even cosmology experts call relativity a theory.
It's a hypothesis in technical language, but since we're on TH-cam realizing informal science, it doesn't count as much so just shut your traps and let us be happy with whatever hell he decides to call his chimichanga immugrant
Matheus Pereira Sorry, the conflation of theory and hypothesis is one of my pet peeves. (It's up there with "irreducible complexity," and for much the same reason.)
I agree with you, but formal science is a crap, too much name's, and less creativity, here we have the opposite
Even though you're right, sometimes we should just relax for the video, the content is well done even though the names aren't.
This is fun science
Not formal, formal is for documentation, this is for debate and healthy thinking
I think it's important to point out that while it could be seen as Superman siding with his immigrant roots over his American roots, he was also simply stopping a mass murder.
James McTrollington exactly all superman did was stop a mass murder and save innocent people
James McTrollington Amen to that!!!!
Yeah, not letting immigrants be killed isn't a complex moral issue. As much as I hate to say it, thinking that there's two reasonable sides to "Should these folk be shot to death," kinda makes those critics... not super.
Yeah I feel like at that point any personal thoughts on illegal immigration policy kind of go out the window.
Yar. Even if you are against illegal immigration, rooting for someone who wants to murder them en masse just makes you a scumbag.
I have never thought of Superman as a refugee, but it makes a ton of sense that he is.
Great work Scott!
Hey its Mr Sunday Movies I love that guy
I love Mr Sunday Movies hi please respond
Mr Sunday Movies NOTICE ME 😭
Thanks! My anxiety appreciates it!
I love u too sott
*_”WE WILL BUILD A WALL AROUND EARTH AND MAKE THE KRYPTONIANS PAY.”_*
Brobot 500 you got my vote
Sounds like a smart idea.
It's funny coz Captain America did activate a wall around Earth and kept the aliens outside of it.
Brobot 500 I'm tired of those god damn vexicans in destiny 2
Make the galaxy great again
I kinda liked the way that the tv series *Smallville* tackled this. _Lionel Luther helped the Kents, using his money & power to get baby Kal-El documentation_
So I don't remember but did Lionel ever hold that against them? If he didn't that would be an almost shockingly decent move for such a slimy character. (We at least know he didn't hold it against them _for the many years_ before his character appeared on the show.)
I think Lionel only did that so he could investigate clark cause he was suspicious of the kents.
Matt Pierce he ended up holding it against Jonathan when he became senator, and then Jonathan dies like immediately afterwards
Shione Cooper Same
the wealthy and powerful sidestepping established law is about the most american thing one can do
When kryptone sends their people, they are not sending their best people. They're sending warlords, super heroes, phantoms zone escapees...
The ghost of Sammy classic Sonic fan haha🇺🇸🤣
The ghost of Sammy classic Sonic fan That's actually true lol xD
The one time this quote is true lmao
The ghost of Sammy classic Sonic fan.
Zod, Doomsday, Brainiac....
Say it with me: "Radical Kryptonian Terrorism"!
Supergirl and krypto the dog
Honestly, he does nothing but save people and protect earth, so it shouldn't matter what kind of citizen Sup's is. He's the hero of Earth, regardless of nationality.
Though, what about Supergirl? She was already a teen-ish age when she arrived on earth, so what would her status be?
Kulkinz - in Pre-Crisis, they put her up in an orphanage and she eventually got officially adopted by the Danvers family.
...SCOOOOOTT WE NEED ANOTHER VIDEO!!
Kulkinz Deport her back to the rubble that is krpyton
Cake# They should just do the paper work and not worry about it. If they don't do the paper work then the government labels them as a threat, this is because they are unaccounted for when acts of terrorism happens. Illegal immigrants is just a nice way of saying invading terrorist, the difference being a invading terrorist both hates this country and isn't in the cenus, so when acts of terrorism are being investigated they can't find the illegal that did it because the cenus doesn't show their name!!! If they are on the cenus, then they are legal to some degree and are fine, those immigrants have my support, and the undocumented ones that are trying to get their papers done have my support
I haven't seen since Rebirth but in New 52 she was straight-up undocumented and they didn't go into much detail about how she managed to pass. She immediately meets Siobhan Smythe whose powers somehow grant Kara the ability to read/speak/understand English so there's not even that. It could've been a _really_ interesting exploration of the character and her situation but they just hand-waved most of it away.
In the TV show there's a pretty hasty explanation that the Danvers could somehow forge all the necessary paperwork and I haven't seen the pilot in a while but I think her pod teaches her English enroute through magic Kryptonian technology? IDK if I'm remembering that right though.
"He's not an alien, he's not a god, he's just a dude from Kansas doing the right thing."
That's from Kaptain Kristian, not me.
I feel as though Superman's official immigration status is of lesser importance than what he symbolizes. He is the embodiment of what America can be; a refuge for those who need protection, a leader in equality amongst all, a shining ray of hope for all those who need it. Getting caught up in the semantics of who is and isn't a citizen is divisive and honestly kind of pointless. Even if Superman was deemed undocumented, would that make him any less American? Of course not! He is literally the amalgamation of the ideals that form this country. Like many others, even if Clark Kent/Kal-El isn't a citizen on paper, he exhibts the notions, charcteristics, and passions of America.
EDIT: or maybe I’m unrealistically idealist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Good job Scott!!!
Sydney Bryant preach 🇺🇸
Couldn't have said it better myself. 💖🇺🇸
Sydney Bryant They should just do the paper work and not worry about it. If they don't do the paper work then the government labels them as a threat, this is because they are unaccounted for when acts of terrorism happens. Illegal immigrants is just a nice way of saying invading terrorist, the difference being a invading terrorist both hates this country and isn't in the cenus, so when acts of terrorism are being investigated they can't find the illegal that did it because the cenus doesn't show their name!!! If they are on the cenus, then they are legal to some degree and are fine, those immigrants have my support, and the undocumented ones that are trying to get their papers done have my support
Well said - that he is an immigrant doesn't make him less American. I would argue that being part of something else or coming from some other place is an essential piece of the American experience; that you can be both wholly an immigrant and wholly American. In fact, most of us are, to one degree or another.
He's not an immigrant. Legally he's either a US citizen since that was the first country on Earth he was in or the Kent family pet since he's not human.
Superman is for EVERYBODY. When he says he is here to fight for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way", he fights for the American ideals as Captain America does. Tastes change and what a country may mean to a political movement may mean different things, but the underlying ideals of America are ideals that these characters stand for and that is what they fight for.
Thank you!
Ian Mason Amen
Not necessarily. There is a reason why Superman often omits the "American Way" line these days and/or the Justice League cartoons leave out the "of America" part. It's quite alienating to those outside the US.
The ideals of "Truth and Justice" are global and for everybody, without a nationalistic slant.
It's one of the reasons Captain America wasn't all that popular outside of the US prior to the MCU and/or Ultimate Universe.
I kinda think Superman would be pro-universal healthcare.
Kimble Simpson low blow.
The amount of research, comprehension and explanation in these videos is astounding...holy cow, is there a college professor out there just using this channel as curriculum yet?
Did you know In a 1966 issue of Action Comics, editors revealed that Clark Kent’s SSN is 092-09-6616 that number actually belonged to a New Yorker, Giobatta Baiocchi, who had died a year earlier
Arguably, can you hold a non-human accountable for human laws?
if he is on a human world then yes
We have regulations for animals don't we?
If a mosquito bites someone and they die of yellow fever, the insect wouldn't be charged with murder so I think you're right.
I think this IS really important. Seigel and Schuster had a very important intent for Superman, as the defender of Truth and Justice, a paragon of good! And especially now, when what is considered "american ideals" become more and more muddled and controversial, it's important that we have heroes like Superman and Captain America, who have been (at least In Tellings true to their debut) defenders of what SHOULD be good and American, not what is considered American at the time.
Marble Ramirez Good point. I'm pretty sure that's what the "American way" means. It's the acknowledgement that all people are created equal, have individual freedom, and have the unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That's what the American way really is, and that's what Superman has always stood for. And that doesn't mean Superman doesn't stand for the entire world. The principles of the American way are universal.
I kind of like Superman being an immigrant cause it relates to myself, super man came from a different place looking for a better life as an infant and arrived to Kansas where he was raised , and I came from a different place looking for a better life as an infant and was raised in Kansas too, and having superman being an immigrant gives me hope, that someday I also can do great things.
Sorry to rain on your parade but legally he's one of two things:
1: A legal US citizen since Kansas is his state of origin [nowhere off world is legally recognised].
2: The Kent family pet since he's not human.
Either way, he's not an immigrant by immigration laws.
@@duncanmcokiner4242 Slight correction: any land in space that's not occupied by an active base or vessel is legally recognised as being international waters.
@@realkosherpork9223 Yeah, so not legally recognised as being a state of origin.
@@duncanmcokiner4242 Yes, it is. There are very specific international rules relating to people born in international waters and stateless people overall.
@@realkosherpork9223 Then it's not a state. You can't say it's stateless and a state.
Yes, I go with the original story. Superman is an immigrant who's upbringing gave him the sense of Justice that should be the American way. Funny how people assume that means the USA way. Maybe it's that North American way or a combination of North, Central and South American ways. I always took it as being what's on the Statue of Liberty. Good words that ought to be true.
*Batman day*
*Makes a superman video*
Jason Sotelo yes
BECAUSE HE’S...
Um...
HE’S NERDMAN.
There's a Batman Day?
...Is there a Wonder Woman Day?
I think that standing up for immigrants IS the American way. As a country of immigrants all should be welcomed and bigoted views should not be tolerated, and i can’t think of a more American act for Superman to do in this day and age then save those immigrants. Great vid Scott! Keep up the good work!
It's so strange to me that certain parties want to pull back from that. If the American heritage is a proud one, be proud of that immigrant status! And, in turn, respect the current iterations of your ancestors. Their sacrifices for their children will shape the US, just like those that came before.
Will Schultheis Well said 🇺🇸
I still don't understand how a country where the majority aren't immigrants is still a country of immigrants.
it is a young nation with not that many steps away from the majorities immegration status nolene, that is why it is called that, but you could also go with the more grusme natio of killing their naties in horrible ways
By this logic anyone who has "american values" is American
He saved people from getting killed. Dose not matter to him if the guy had a us flag bandan or a mexica one or uk one or anything else.
Scott, you majestic man! NerdSync is my poop forever...
I don't know what this means, but okay!
NerdSync it means your poop but your his poop (complement)
Nerdsync lol, I was trying to say that Nerdsync is my shit, but enjoy substituting the word poop whenever possible.
+Rhett Mcfarland YOU!
Way to censor it!
"I'm not from Krypton. I'm from Kansas." - Superman: American Alien. The American Way is an ideal, not a claim to only fight for America. It's the idea that everyone has the same basic human rights, and was created equal. And despite certain recent political claims, America is a country of immigrants, for immigrants. The land of opportunity. Superman was born on a planet that no longer exists. Any mementos he has from Krypton are parts of a history he keeps for record; he has no true emotional connection to them. He was raised in America, so those are the values he fights for all around the world. Oh, and he would save those immigrants from a gunman; he's SUPERMAN, he cares for all life everywhere. So the entire hubbub about the issue is stupid.
Exactly.
Given that Superman is probably my favorite superhero and also given the fact that I myself am a "Dreamer" I like to put it in my head cannon that YES, Superman is indeed a Dreamer as well. Just another way for me to relate to this amazing character I've grown to love, showing me that no matter my immigration status, I can do good and instill Hope in the hearts of others, just like he does. Jurgens did a wonderful job in this comic and I can't wait to see where it goes from here! Love ya Scott, thanks for all the videos!
Ivan Lopez if your an illegal immigrant then noooooo
Ivan Lopez
I'm sorry, but you have to go back.
Superman Clark Kent Why should I go back? I was brought here when I was only one year old. I have lived in the United States my entire life basically. I love my country, I love learning about its history and politics and culture, I am protected under DACA and then plan to further my immigration status through the long and arduous process of becoming a resident, heck I even plan on serving in the Military, serving this country. Doing things the right way, not lying about my status as an immigrant or trying to cheat my way out. I have a perfectly clean criminal record, and I am by no means perfect, but what fellow American is? Yes I came from a different country and I do hold onto the cultural values from where I was born, but I am an American. My immigration status and they way I view myself are not the same. I am proud to be part of the looong line of immigrants that help make this country great.
Ivan Lopez
This is a whites-only country sir. I'm gonna have to ask you to leave.
Superman Clark Kent Damn, I've just been trolled huh? Well played sir.
I like the sentiment of Clark being for truth and justice specifically. Clark’s written more to be more human than most people. Back when he was primarily an American hero it made sense to say the American way. Now that he’s more of a global hero it’s appropriate that he’s supposed to be the example of being a good person
This channel has been absolutely killing it lately with all these super interesting videos
Great Scott! What happened to your hair? (See what I did there?)
HeyOzzy! Yeah made an unoriginal joke. Yay.
HeyOzzy! Stop.
Isaiah Butler thank you
Haha Back to the Future, well done
HeyOzzy! Very clever
“Foundling” you say? *Mando music plays* This is the way.
About the question in the end, i honestly couldn't care less all i know is that he is a hero.
And that is the only matters
You know what matters to me? That in this era where we are over saturated with redundant think piece bloggers and click farming headline factories, there can still be valuable content creators who take time and effort to bring insightful content to their audience such as the team over at Nerdsync. Thanks always for a great show.
I love these Superman videos! Keep it up man
Jagerclaw - He will!
i just realized man of steel miniseries of 1986 was the first time i ever read the origins of superman! The pages are still very bright in my memories, this took me back. thanks scott!
Superman is Trump's worst nightmare. An Immigrant (legal or otherwise), and a reporter that follows the truth.
Andrew Benge and in Marvel it's Kamala Khan, a Muslim girl with some bigass hands!!😂
Deebo Molina lmao
Andrew Benge They should just do the paper work and not worry about it. If they don't do the paper work then the government labels them as a threat, this is because they are unaccounted for when acts of terrorism happens. Illegal immigrants is just a nice way of saying invading terrorist, the difference being a invading terrorist both hates this country and isn't in the cenus, so when acts of terrorism are being investigated they can't find the illegal that did it because the cenus doesn't show their name!!! If they are on the cenus, then they are legal to some degree and are fine, those immigrants have my support, and the undocumented ones that are trying to get their papers done have my support
Deebo Molina damn 😂😂💀
😂
Superman has been called difficult to write for with justifiable reasons. But what always makes the character compelling is his position as a "Man of two worlds".
First of all, I like the phrase “Intergalactic Moses!”
Secondly, I think it is important to discuss the definition of “citizen,” as well as the implications of that label.
Why do certain people “deserve” rights because they were born here without any choice, and others don’t “deserve” rights because they were not born here against their will? If we believe that these rights are important for people, then we should want to extend those rights to all people living in America, OR we should require everyone to earn those rights, regardless if they were born here or not...
Scott... I LOVE the evolution and production quality of your videos! You are amazing at what you do, it’s so easy to see the passion and love you have for what you talk about. Keep up the fantastic work!!
I absolutely love what you are doing with this episode. It's a hard subject and you took it on with grace and dignity. Well done. That out of the way, I take two issues with your video.
1) Of course Superman would save a group of undocumented aliens from a gun totting mad man because he is superman. Anyone fighting for "Truth, Justice and America" would do the same. If the roles were reversed, you rest assured that the Man of Steel save U.S. citizens from a foreign psycho with the ardour as in the first instance. Nationality would play zero role here.
2) Only a select group of people know that Clark is Sups, therefore any argument made on either side of the issue about Superman is moot. Clark Kent is registered, Superman is not. Clark is a U.S. citizen but that doesn't automatically make Superman a citizen until he would reveal his alter ego. Thar said, if the government grants Superman citizenship but for some reason revokes Clark's we are still in the same position. Again unless Superman reveals that he is also Clark. But if he did that then he would be admitting the multiple lies told to the government, thus voiding his current status.
And now my brain hurts and everything is starting to smell of copper. I need to go lie down. Good day sir.
Another amazing video. I learn more from your videos than I do during the rest of my week. Keep keepin it real.
Something you forgot is these rules only apply to humans, technically superman can't be deported any more than a monarch butterfly or a migratory bird. This also means he would have no human rights ether.
... huh. That's pretty good.
Never thought of it that way 🤔
It was addressed before. He's legally either a US citizen or the Kent family pet.
@ULGROTHA in those realities except DH and some regions of middle earth the laws are specifically written with non human sentient beings in mind. The non humans have no rights issue comes up in DH from time to time.
Star Trek: Non of them are illegally there.
Doctor Who: He doesn't live on Earth.
Lord Of The Rings: Nation states don't exist in the same way as on Earth.
Disney: Often no defined laws on non humans compared to humans.
1 I love videos like this because when you ask a question in the title I answer it and then watch the video and see if I was right. Love the video man
I don't entirely understand this controversy.
First we assume the workers are illegal immigrants, but is that assumption based on anything other then the fact that they are brown? (let me know if I'm wrong)
What we do know however is that the man with the gun, regardless of his personal reasoning, is a violent criminal trying to mow down a group of unarmed people. Superman shows up and does what he has always done, saves lives and apprehends the criminal. Then when the criminal tries to make excuses for what we should ALL agree is inexcusable, Sups tells him to take responsibility for his own actions. What could be more American then that?
Whatever your views on illegal and legal immigration we should all be able to stand by Superman in condemning extremest who think violence and hate has any place in resolving this complex political issue.
Also, I want to point out, we seem to have forgotten recently that immigration is a big part of the "American Way." "The great melting pot," "the american dream," "a country built by immigrants," "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" these are all cornerstones of the american ideal that Superman represents.
Mikayla Eager The fact that the shooter was a white guy with an American flag bandana who was screaming "They took our jobs!" is just a stupid way to politicize what should be a simple and uncontroversial moment. Even if those people were illegal immigrants, Superman would have saved them. Not because they were immigrants, but because they were defenseless. Of course, that doesn't mean Superman is a defender of illegals. Like any superhero, he should uphold justice and the law.
That's what I thought from reading that panel. He wasn't taking a political stance, other then a stance against allowing crazy gunman to mow down defenseless people. Unless you believe anyone that might (or might not) be an illegal immigrant deserves to die, there shouldn't be any controversy here. If someone decided to take a gun into the Westboro church Superman would stop them too. That doesn't mean he approves of their politics, he just values human life.
Marc Sherman I mean, it is scarily accurate to our current situation. In my time on the Internet, I’ve seen plenty of people who like to tout themselves as patriots but would gladly see immigrants and asylum seekers deported or killed. It’s not just needless politicization, it’s in a way making it kind of more plausible.
I don't GAF if you talk bout the same thing. You bring insight to the things you talk bout and im intrigued. Keep up the work. You're doing good.
Me:*reads title* *immediately starts to hear BTS's Illegal/dimple*
I wonder if you know for a fact that the abandoned baby you found came from another planet, is there technically any legal obligation to reveal that fact to the government?
My family are immigrants (Polish to Ireland) and, even though we moved here when I was younger than I can properly remember, I identify myself as Polish and not Irish. In fact, I have Irish citizenship but I still identify more with Poland. I guess it's just the way that I was brought up, but I do kinnda take issue with the fact that Superman just kind of slips into being an American and mostly ignores his Kryptonian culture.
Sci-Fi Pie would you describe yourself as Polish if you were adopted by strangers as a baby in a different country, let's say Ireland, or would you then be Irish?
Robert T if i found out about my origin, i do believe that i would still try to at least acknowledge my culture.
I think there is a reason for this. DC Comics does not want to acknowledge that Superman is actually smarter than their Bat-god cash cow. Since if Kal-El did fully acknowledge his Kryptonian heritage they would have to have his Fortress of Solitude in his story and he would use that to educate himself of his heritage and learn what he can from his parents including especially his Science Guild father Jor-El. And the fact that the El family were a major Kryptonian royal dynasty.
Robert T what sci-fi pie said is like superman even tho he was born somewhere and raised somewhere else, he identifies himself more from where he grew up than where he was born. Of course still had to mention that he was born from that other place. so ur hypothetical question doesn't make sense. Or what exactly r u asking?
See, I'd argue the opposite. I'm adopted (from South Korea) and from the age of 8 months have lived in America, raised by American parents (white American parents if that makes a difference). I identify solely as American-- why would I identify as a culture that I have no memory and little knowledge of?
Obviously the case of Superman is different-- each day he's reminded that he is not from this planet-- but he's still raised by Americans, and, in recent versions, does not learn of Krypton and it's history until adulthood. I like to view Kal-El as the Kryptonian with whatever knowledge continuity has given him about his birth planet, Clark Kent as the can't-get-much-more-American-than-Kansas American, and Superman as the personality that binds those two together. He wouldn't be Superman if not for his Kryptonian birthright and powers and the Kent's values. (To supplement this, I also like the headcanon of the costume being a mix of his unique heritages-- spandex was Martha's idea and the cape? His baby blanket. Or I guess the curtain if you go a more Birthright route.)
Another thought provoking video! Initially this felt a bit esoteric but you quickly changed my mind, helping me to understand *why* people have such strong reactions to Superman, even if they don't understand themselves. Keep up the great work!
he's a dreamer. next question
The terminology is a tricky part of this discussion for sure.
NerdSync Love ya
I absolutely loved that part of the issue. I know some people think entertainment should stay away from politics, but if you have a platform by which you can show people a positive thing, it should be used by all means
I always assumed John and Martha Kent just got him a birth certificate as an orphan they just found. Seems like it's a lot more complicated than all that. Also that Man of Steel miniseries was one of the few Superman comics I had as a kid (I was more of a cartoon fan, my copy was a hard back kids version of the series) so that probably coloured my understanding of it, along with the animated series. Cool way to explore these laws btw, relevant too.
I agree with you about the universal Superman btw Scott. I talk about this a lot in my comments, but I am a Christian and a Canadian myself, so the American champion part of superman always struck me as kind silly and cringe worthy. I appreciate it as part of his heritage, I actually think (as an outsider looking in) Supe's struggles between his universal calling to protect the weak and his loyalty reflects the cultural struggle America itself has had throughout its history. America has always been caught between doing the loyal and doing the right things, such as with native issues, the civil war, civil rights, and recent immigration crises. I mean, it is obvious to anyone's conscience that the poor and those fleeing violence should be cared for, but loyalty to american systems and an american identity makes it hard to fully accept this responsibility.
If we're going to look at Superman as being emblematic of America, or even of the universal human, this struggle is very real and powerful. I don't read many comics myself, as I said, I'm a cartoon fan, but I think portraying this struggle and having supes wrestle with it is a good thing. Also, Superman isn't perfect, so even if you disagree with his ultimate decision, I think one should still appreciate that Supes did struggle and wrestle with his conscience. In the case of that recent comic you mentioned, I think it was a clear case of Superman choosing to stop violence, and he very purposefully didn't weigh in on the immigration issue. From what I can tell, it has been blown out of proportion because news sites have to make money.
I mean yeah seems like the most obvious that they just say the found an abandoned baby on their door step, then do the work to have him adopted.
You also have to remember that Superman’s origins were initially written during the Great Depression.
Back then there wasn’t quite so much paperwork involved in proving your identity, and it wasn’t uncommon for parents who couldn’t take care of their own kids to leave them with a close friend or distant relative in a better financial situation than themselves.
Hey Scott, I think this is one of your best videos yet
*Answer to the comment question:* Honestly, I don't think it matters. Isn't that the point? The fact that Superman's nationality has nothing to do with his values or beliefs is probably one of his coolest aspects. Sure, you can see him as an immigrant, refugee, legal American, or whatever...but none of it changes the fact that Superman is a hero because of what he's done and continues to do. He doesn't need nation to back up his identity...his own actions, choices, and sacrifices speak loud enough.
But the rest of us aren't superman.
Regardless of Superman being an illegal alien you don't go around killing people who took your job.
Would Superman try to became an American Citizen if he is not? Also Lets go back to the original Superman were he fights only for truth and justices. Superman has been Americanized for sure but better he is a Citizen of earth and fights for all of earth and doesn't just become a puppet for the American Government and for American patriotism. He should be free to think for himself and be his own person. So I like the idea of Superman saving Undocumented Imagits. Keep him true to the original Superman.
Patriotism was created to get people to except whatever the government does and not question it.
Amber Higgins
I'd argue Supermans attitude and values are distinctly American.
Amber Higgins
Patriotism existed way before the US had a government. It was more of an identity/community thing rather than some blind trust in government.
In fact, the most "patriotic" among us are actually very critical, and want less government.
Superman Clark Kent, Like I said he is Americanized.
Superman Clark Kent, Patraismom was used by the Romans to get people to accept the Empire and the Emperors. It was also Used by the British government to get people to Accept the British Union of the United Kingdom and the British government. Don't get me wrong I love the British people and the UK, but we took our Patriotism from the British government. Red, white and Blue comes from the British flag colors first before the U.S Flag and so does National Anthems at sporting event, or as the British say Matches. Both the British and the Romans used Patriotism to get people to accept the government and its rule. In Truth Patriotism is just a tool of the government which many Americans are blind too.
As someone who moved to America as a three year old, the Superman origin story and status as an immigrant, foreigner, and quintessential American is super empowering and inspirational.
I had someone back in highschool say that who could you actually be, an alien with superpowers (Superman) or really rich (Batman). To him the obvious answer was anyone could be rich, but for me, I really felt like an alien growing up, so for me the answer was that I could be Superman
where my early nerds?
Nigel Charlson
Nerdlies? Earlerds?
either
Great video, Scott! Keep them coming.
Jab 661 He will try. With his whole nerdy heart.
So that's why Batman hated him. He took o'r jerbs. lol
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Martha...
In that picture it looks like Superman was born in a big pile of spaghetti.
NOTIFACATION SQUAD
My friends!
NerdSync hi
I find it hilarious that in one issue he straight up tells a reporter "they can't deport me, my home planet no longer exists".
In more Superman-esque dialogue, but you get the idea.
Anti Theist they can still deport to another Planet similar to Kypton though because of how big the Universe is in DC.
The answer is yes
This is the BEST Comic Book related channel
*Ive always hated that "American way" bull. Superman protects earth. Hes not bound by borders or legislation. He does what he has to do to save earth and so let him fight for the things that we all deserve, truth and justice and freedom. But leave the patriotism to small minded men.*
*I was born in Lincoln Nebraska and am far from patriotic. Superman has one of the greatest minds in DC. I believe he sees past governments and flags. I believe he fights for virtues, not for colors painted on fabric or selfish pride.*
Truth, justice and freedom are American values and huge parts of the American way. Or maybe I'm just small minded and you're superior to me. (I hope that sarcasm was obvious.)
*Doc Jabberwock Im differentiating between someone who supports a country that supposedly has those values, and someone who supports those values because of who they are and their personal moral compass, not because that is what has been instilled within them.*
*You can be an advocate of truth, and justice, and freedom and maintain neutrality*
While I agree that he defends and save Earth on a regular basis, I have to disagree with the notion that Superman should leave his patriotism at the door. Rather, it's because Superman is patriotic that he save the world. His entire worldview was shaped by American family. It was America who made Superman. In theory, he could have landed elsewhere and still learn to defend the world, but in practice Superman's Americanism is part of what makes him Superman. He was created to be American, despite not being American born, and that's the whole crux of Superman. He could look at all the objectively bad things happening in America and write it off, and go somewhere else, but he know America has its good, and that's what he fights for. Not the actual America, but the ideal America that took him in, even though they could have left him to die in the cornfield.
I wish they would bring This Superman into the movies something more heart felt. I like this channel a lot as it bring moral and symbolism in comics that most don't see or it slips their eye. Great work!
Of course he's an alien he's literally from another planet but a lot of his stuff is based on American ideals not necessarily America itself. In the comic where he protects illegal immigrants he's always going to protect whoever from someone who ever is trying to harm them no matter who they were. What's dumb is the people making the comics gave the guy an American bandana and literally a line from South Park, way to go DC just stereotype people who are patriotic into being racist Hillbillies.
Kinda cool how you weaved legalese into the video. =D Good job! Also, when will we get another Super Suits episodes?
The Post-Crisis origin you mention from the MOS mini-series showed Clark born on Earth. He was by that means a legit American citizen. The fact the Kents lied about who his parents were doesn't change that. Besides, if they'd said "We found him," the authorities could easily have taken the baby and not let them adopt him. Passing him off as their own doesn't change the fact he was born in the United States.
The REAL problem is that with the recent merging of the "New 52" and "Post-Crisis/New Earth" timelines, it seems the birthing matrix went bye bye with the timeline change, and BABY Kal-El was sent to Earth, so the "he was actually born here" thing is no longer valid, which now opens up that whole nasty can of worms all over again... *sigh*
nakyer In the words of Comic Drake, because comics
*Zack Phillips - TheRogueGrunt*
SUPERMAN IS NOT A COMIC BOOK CHARACTER, HE'S REAL!!!!
...I'm sorry.
That just happens sometimes.
I'm all right now.
nakyer You good buddy?
Superman: Birthright in 2003 replaced The Man of Steel as his post-Crisis origin story, and it changed Superman's origin back to being sent to Earth as a baby instead of being born here.
*Chad Benjamin*
There's always been some serious questions about BIRTHRIGHT, and whether or not it actually changed the standing timeline.
I'll never get tired of superman videos -- endlessly fascinating character.
ITS MIDNIGHT GO TO SLEEP!!!
But I wanted you to see this!
NerdSync I was literally about to get in my bed then DING
Rhett Mcfarland its 10:24 realize the time change
Can't, too much caffeine in the blood...😂
Is 12:30 wear I live
I am not american, but the origin story of superman is one of the most beautiful origin stories ever something a lot of people can relate to, his compassion , humility and his heroe's journey is deeply ingrained in our dna as humans, wether we recognize it or not.
Technically the universe belongs to everyone and everything so you can live anywhere you please.
Reverse Dipper Pines Not exactly, considering private property exists.
Sure go love in north korea
I love your videos! This was so eloquent!!!
I think Superman works better as a LEGAL immigrant. I think that it fits with Clark's boy scout personality and that he'd be the kind of person that would want to be LEGAL and obtain citizenship!
Assuming that he ever thought to question the legality of his citizenship to begin with... Being brought up to be an honest farmboy by the Kents he might not have thought to question the legality of their custody or his citizenship...
Minnion I am pretty sure Clark has some knowledge of the legal system given that he worked as a journalist.
Knowledge or not, I'm saying he would trust his parents and might not have considered the possibility of them breaking citizenship laws by adopting him in the first place...
Well to be honest they would've had to break citizenship laws to keep him, if they told anyone they found a baby in a crashed spaceship he would've been seized by the government and we would've gotten the flashpoint Superman
Can you tell me how he can be a LEGAL immigrant? How was he supposed to get a visa before coming to the states? Also do you Even know of immigration law? People who crossed the border illegally can't just go to an office and request citizenship that is not how the system works. In the current system superman either marries for the documents or he would have to be deported to krypton and then apply to enter the country legally which yeah that would not work. I'm sorry if it is in conflict with your beliefs but supes entered the country Illegally and the only reason he has a citizenship is because the Kent committed fraud and lied to the government.
Glad to see u back
No, he's a citizen
Even if we accept that he's a citizen now, that doesn't mean he was always one.
Timothy McLean the past is in the past
Gabe Hey and the past intentions have deeper roots than modern interpretations...he's an immigrant...a foreigner
Even if he is a citizen he entered the country ILLEGALLY without documents. And his citizenship was obtained trough fraudulent means ( the kents basically lied to the goverment) so sorry to burst your bubble but yeah he is no different from the DACA kids.
Of course Superman would save people, he’s Superman. He would not support any reason to enforce violence against ordinary people. That was the point.
I think the issue, no pun intended, isn't that he stood up for an immigrant, but that people are getting increasingly sick of seeing writers have their favorite characters definitely taking sides in muddy, complex issues. Illegal Immigration is a far more complex issue than just "they do jobs Americans don't want, and are good, hard working people who deserve amnesty and if you disagree you're a heartless bigot" and it's more complex than just " THEY TOOK OUR JOBS", but unfortunately, that's usually what the arguments come down to. Either you want the illegals to stay and you have a heart or you want them deported and you're a white supremacist.
And seeing a bitter, flag-waving white supremacist trying to kill a kind, defenseless, illegal Mexican immigrant, only to be stopped by Superman is bound to ruffle some feathers, not because the people getting pissed are all bigots, but because a lot of people on the anti-illegal immigration side of the aisle are good people who are also Superman fans and it pisses people off to see writers depicting their heroes as taking a clear side in a complex issue as if that side is clearly the "right side".
As much as some may disagree, for me, this is why seeing popular geek icons gender-swapped or race-swapped or iconic geek properties feature more non-white or women or LGBT people turns into an issue almost every time, nowadays. Not because there are just that many racist, sexist, homophobes etc, but because nearly every time these changes are made, they're made solely for ideological reasons backed up by the argument of "it's 20XX" as if not having these changes is some sort of regressive, barbaric way of thinking. I just think people just want to sit down and read comics and not be lectured to about feminism or Black Lives Matter or #MAGA because they get enough, maybe even too much, in just about all other media. It is escapist fantasy after all. But I digress.
Omar Harris.
You're right.... Superman should have just let them get shot......
Greek gods being gender-swapped.....
I wonder where I've seen that before?
Omar Harris Superheroe comics had always been political. Fighting crime, corruption, getting involve in wars (ww2, vietnam) I get that some people (aka biggots) are sick of SJW but this is no a "marvel" case, supes has always stand by the poor and the powerless. If people doesn't get that they should look up to another hero, like Captain Hydra
I can see your argument about political issues like illegal immigration and similar political issues, but as for heroes coming out as LGBT or having people of different races and genders pick up the mantel I think that's a separate issue. If we accept these characters as 'people'' then we accept that that is just what those 'people' are. Whether a woman, a poc, or LGBT isn't a political statement, it just is what it is. Rody taking on the Iron Man mantel back in the day wasn't a political comment, it was just part of the story.
No one said that Sups should let them get shot, just that the scene seems to depict a "complex" issue as a very black and white issue.
Immigration is not bigots vs righteous people, and the sooner people realize that the sooner good solutions can be found.
It not a problem that a character is gay, black, trans or some other minority. No one said that. It does however make for a pretty boring story if their whole identity is build around superficial characteristics.
In other words to do a e.g. gay character right, is to make a great character, who just happens to be gay. The gay-part should just be one small part of a much more complex person.
+Jong Fuu More complex issues have always been simplified in comics due to their target demographic. Breaking down key points into a message on morality addressed to the young.
also in the same story, he stops someone from burning down the home of a very wealthy person. It was a message about political extremism in general
I say he is an American citizen.
Clark Kent is most definitely 100% an American citizen. Kal-El and Superman, not so much.
An american Citizen yes most likely, but he is an american citizen who entered the country Illegally.
It's only illegal to come to America from another country. There is no law against space aliens coming here and as such they can't break the law by immigrating. He's either a legal US citizen since America is his country of origin or the Kent family pet since he's no human.
The "foundling clause" may postdate Superman, but there must be some earlier precedent. Stories of abandoned babies are as old as human history. There must be some older precedent, which was likely forgotten after the foundling clause replaced it. Also, in context... in the 30s, durring the depression, in some small, nowhere town... maybe they just didn't ask too many questions. "You found a baby, Mrs. Kent? Well... alright then. Have you decided on a name?"
For further context, some people sold some of their children durring the depression, to feed the rest. Many children were abandoned as well. It probably became common enough at the time, that people were willing to forego certain formalities, for the sake of everyone involved.
I don't care either way. It just bothers me that a comic feels the need to preach to us about these things. Yes, comics have always gotten political, but today it's often unnecessary and one-sided, divisive content that's ultimately bringing controversy into an unhealthy industry.
Even though it is a complete ABSURD we've got to a point where COMICS NEED to remember that
Carlos Rodriguez my biggest problem is how people blame the artist and writers behind the comics for making it more political but really artist and writers only draw and write about things that they see and for the most part they do it subconsciously trust me I know this is an artist and writer, it's the readers who make it more political, and of course they get mad at that.
If it was unnecessary nazis wouldn't be running over people with cars and having the president side by them. Lol and the industry is doing great. Since no other time except WWII comics have never been this popular as the time we live in.
If it was unnecessary nazis wouldn't be running over people with cars and having the president side by them. Lol and the industry is doing great. Since no other time except WWII comics have never been this popular as the time we live in.
Carlos Rodriguez you're a dumbass...they've always been political...The issue of Cap punching Hitler was BEFORE we had gone to war but SJWs like Stan Lee and Kirby wanted us to fight injustice...
I don't see how this could be interpreted as Superman "choosing a side" between Americans and immigrants. Supes is doing what he's always done: standing between those who would do harm and those who would be harmed. Were the situation reversed, like an illegal alien about to gun down a group of American citizens for reporting him to Immigration, Superman would be facing the other way and be just as blunt and angry.
I think a story involving this exact problem would make for a good story. A problem Clark can't punch his way out of. I would like to see this tackled in the Marvel MAX line of Hyperion stories. That series was always more 'Grounded" and it seems like a nice subject to tackle.
Honestly, I would like to see stories about the social and political problems Superman would create.
Great video Scott! I think you've done an amazing job on the topic!
Hey Nerdsync, Is your podcast coming back soon? I just want to know because I loved it and i hope it comes back
I once saw a Superman TV show where they brought up something about no fly zones and I immediately thought
“Do you get a ticket for standing in the parking lot?”
If I remember right, the first comic by Joe Shuster and Jerry Segal, (way back in 1938), Superman was found by a farmer and left on the door step of an orphanage and was actually raised in the orphanage and not by the Kents. Correct me if I'm wrong.
An even more interesting interpretation of Supes' story is from Justice League: Gods and Monsters.
Not only is his father Zod instead of Jor El, in this timeline he's raised by undocumented Mexican immigrants, and therefore grew up knowing what it's like to be discriminated against.
Great video Scott!
THEORY: Is Superman REALLY an Illegal Alien???
*Scott:* "No."
_video ends_
It doesn't matter weather or not he is. He stopped a crazy man from killing innocent people.
Excellent video, Scott.
Before the video even starts, I gotta say it depends on the source used. In Smallville for instance, Luthor pulled strings to get him adopted, and file all the necessary paperwork. For most of the other ones, I would call him naturalized, he's been there all his life.
That was a really heartwarming video. :-)
why dont people just make superman having a dual citizenship. one is, his from krypton and one's american. Like that dude travels all around the galaxies visits various planest and i dont think he would make that feat if it werent for his well respected kryptonian citizenship
Wouldn't that be great, not only does Superman have to deal with Lex and Joker teaming up, but poor Clark Kent gets a visit from Immigration about his legal status, and get the Daily Planet in trouble over hiring a possible illegal alien.
I think it is more likely the government would go after Clark more than Supes, seeing that they could find some loophole or evidence against him.
Great job as always, Scott!
Wow! Awesome research and video
Sir thank you for your videos i love that there others like me who care and take pride in the industry that love!! And yes i will throw some questions your way good ones!!
he isnt a tool he is someone that saves everyone.
Superman stands for freedom, justice, and the future. As long as that is the case, he will defend people being assaulted whether immigrant, refugee, or native to the location of the incident. That is what matters to me.