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Next up for future ideas as vids in mind please K&G... What did the Arabs + Persians, Slavs + Vikings, Normans + Turks, Crusaders + Indians, Chinese and later Mongols think about the Eastern Romans & Empire? Maybe even... what do modern people now think about the Eastern Romans & Empire... a great vid to make about how we as modern peoples & societies in later centuries thought about, on how it was once considered post Ottoman conquest just as an offset of the Greek Empire, to now being accepted as a continuation of the Roman empire during the dark & medieval middle ages... and how the internet allowed us all to appreciate it more in the history now more more accessible for all of us to learn in reading. 😊 This would be epic... hope you enjoyed these ideas as my gift for you in later making. 😎😉
I see comments from people who deny that Sena Romans but it's funny because the Romans copied everything from the Greeks and the Greeks copied the Middle Eastern empires, the Persians and Egypt. Many say that the Greeks copied the Romans but it would be copying themselves since the Romans were the first to copy Greek culture.
@@higherho1540It's medieval Greek history. Or history of the medieval Roman Empire. It's not Roman history since ancient romans had nothing to do with the empire during the medieval period.
@@gilpaubelid3780 eastern roman empire citizens were romans, the politics, etc. they did not call themselves bezantines. Modern historians changed it, if you look at original documents, it also shows them called as romans. Late antiquity ended after constanople fell.
@@higherho1540 Byzantines were Greeks with Roman citizenship that took under their control the Roman state during the medieval period. When we're saying that they were Romans, we mean politically. Not that they were the same people as the ancient romans. That's why I said that byzantine history is the medieval Greek history or the history of the medieval Roman state but not the history of the ancient Roman people. The inhabitants of Constantinople called themselves Byzantines, the term just wasn't used for the whole empire like we use it today. When it comes to the original sources Byzantines called themselves Rhomaioi (Romans), Graikoi (Greeks), Hellenes (Greeks), Helladikoi (Greeks) and Rhomellenes (Roman Greeks).
Can him cover Justinian the first conquests in new form of course because he can't make content for no members only members should watch and his old supporters are forgotten 😞 anyway new video about belarrusius campaigns with an additional coverage about the Iberian campaign will be 😃👍
@@bfdiepictennisballbfdi2359 there is an old playlist Justin conquest and it's old but we'll detailed just new animation and the add of Iberian (Spain+Portugal) campaign it will be a great video 👍
Whatever you've got for Eastern Roman history, from high politics, theology and statescraft, to simply akriti poetry, and comparing regular life between Cappadocia, Kherson, Constantinople and Hellas through the ages, I'm more than happy to hear. Also, i wouldn't be against some Ostrogothic Kingdom/Lombard stuff.
Before I was seriously interested in history I really thought the Romans faded away and THEN the medieval European kingdoms emerged. It absolutely blew my mind when I learned the Roman Empire continued to exist alongside medieval Europe for a thousand years, and ever since I've been absolutely fascinated by the Eastern Romans. It's just sad watching their territory get smaller and smaller every century.
Yes, as a Chinese, my experience is the same as yours.The German barbarians made up lies to steal the glory of the Roman Empire, even though they had nothing to do with it. They reduced the Eastern Roman Empire to Byzantium, just as they reduced the Ming Dynasty to the Ji(蓟) Empire, because Beijing's name in the Shang and Zhou Dynasties was Ji. No one has done this yet due to the continuity of Chinese history, but the name Byzantium is just ridiculous.
@@Manuel-qu3tc Not “at least one”, just “SO MANY”. In the dark Middle Ages, there was only one empire whose level of civilization could compare to China, and that was the Eastern Roman Empire. Arabs say that the Chinese have two eyes, the Greeks of Eastern Rome have one eye, and all other ethnic groups in the world are blind.
@gege1103 True. Catholics weakened the Empire and the Ottomans struck the killing blow. Ironically, Ottomans gave the Catholics hell later on too, which could've been avoided if they aided Byzantine in the first place
We knew that Liutprand's report was ridiculous from the first words of him describing the Emperor(completely different description of the Emperor's depictions). We then also learned Liutprand was uncultured through his hate of olive oil
@@remilenoir1271 see that's where you're wrong,you can't overuse olive oil. Olive oil is the God of cooking,the MSG of Greek cuisine. There's no Greek meal without olive oil. It's our oil,our butter,our dipping sauce it's even in the iconostasis! We literally fast 40 days before Christmas,48 days before Easter,15 days in the start of August and every Wednesday and Friday but the one week we can't eat olive oil(the week before Easter)that's where we draw the line
@@thegreekguy1124 You didn't prove me wrong in any way. Liutprand didn't like the overabundance of olive oil. You like overabundance of olive oil. Neither of these facts constitutes evidence for Liutprand hating olive oil.
@@remilenoir1271 man can't take a joke even if it's delivered to him in a plate... Also anybody who doesn't like olive oil is uncultured,CHANGE MY MIND
@@Forlfir That's a very nonsensical comment if there ever was one. The eastern Roman Empire was never Greece--neither as a state, a nation nor even an ethnicity. Eastern Rome stretched from upper eastern Europe (modern Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia) to Libya, Egypt and Anatolia, including lands. During Justinian's reconquest, it extended all the way to Mauretania. The only century that it ever becomes close to resembling a Greek state is maybe after the 14th century, and even then it's questionable as the people of that time were self-identifying as the Romans' descendants. It really wasn't until the 19th century that the Romaioi of Greece began to redevelop a unique Hellenic (Greek) identity, and it grew only after substantial influence from major Western European powers who spurred the creation of it.
@@ΡωμαϊκόνΠύρThat's also a wrong point to see the empire. Of course both the Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire were empires...multiethnic entities. The Western part had many different people but Ronanitas expressed through the Latin language and culture while in the East, Romanitas was expressed through the Greek language and culture (based in the older Hellenistic substrum also). The main core of the Western Roman were the lands around latio/Rome traditionally while in the East the undisputed core of the Empire were indeed the lands of the native Greek speakers, going back to ancient Greek history....thus isn't weird that the last of all people who remained "Romans" are the people who were from the native Greek territories. Greek peninsula, Greek islands, Ionia, Pontus and the region around Constantinople. The matter of identity is more complicated and not to say "ohh they started to identify as Hellenes because of western influence" since we have already in Byzantium a rise of acknowledgement of their greek actual ethnicity but it wasn't something that had to make it official...the main point in their own time and cultural understanding was their own understanding of romanitas...Greek speaking and Orthodox. And that version of Romanitas was very much in place until the creation of modern Greece...but periodically always we have people embracing both terms (romaios and hellene) for themselves...both became important for their own background, deep history and existence. The use of the term Hellene as sole term is a history of the evolution of Europe in 19th century and is not a subject that is weird if examine the political understanding and new age Europe entered.
@user-qz4go8pf8l Well , you are right , but you are also wrong... The hellenization of the Empire was already on tracks in the 7th century, when Hellenic became the official language. With the loss of the non Greek speaking areas by the Arabs and and other raiders , the sense of a more homogenous Greek "ethnicity " became stronger. The absolute turning points were the schism and 1204. We have plenty enough documentation that the Byzantines used the terms Greek and Hellene on par with Roman for selfidentification long before the 19th century that you falsely write. And of course, they didn't need any westerners to tell them what and who they were.
@@ΡωμαϊκόνΠύρThe consensus was also that the Romans were originally Greek so for the Byzantines to claim Roman origins does not by any means contradict them also claiming ancient Hellenic origins on the direct contrary, the ancient Romans and Hellenes were very much connected and the same, and the Byzantines claimed to originate from both. The eastern Roman province of the empire was always Hellenic in character, the concept of “Nation” is a very modern concept therefore not applicable to older history, Byzantine Rome being no exception, it was an empire not a nation but it still doesn’t neglect that it was Hellenic. Alexander’s empire wasn’t a nation either but an empire, but no one neglects the fact that it was Hellenic.
Great content! I wouldn’t call it “European” perspective on the Byzantines simply because the notion makes them looking “less” European than the Western states. Greco-Roman civilization is the essence of the European civilization, and Byzantines were exactly that. Not to mention that they still considered Germanic states barbarian at the time.
I need you to think about it. You basically move the terms back and forth across the eras to come to this conclusion. Did the Byzantines think that they were Europeans? I don't think so. It is ok to say that the Greco-Roman culture was central to the Enlightenment and as such played the crucial role in what we perceive as European right now, but that wasn't a universally accepted truth in the period we are talking about. Our title is purely geographical because of the addition of "Western". And, yes, you are correct, a denizen of Constantinople of the era would have probably felt more affinity with the Copts or the Syriacs or the Armenians, and not the Franks and such.
@@KingsandGenerals I agree. The reason I’d feel more comfortable with terms other than “European” is because of today’s environment, not because of how each side felt at the time. Today the term carries additional connotations and the same can be said if it’s put as a contrast to another term. Just my two cents.
@@KingsandGeneralsI what they're talking about here is the fact that even in modern day, depending on where you stand in a nation determines what your view of what counts as Europe is never mind the confusing view back then. And it's really important to not put modern day concepts like European to describe ancient people's. Kind of the same question as if the Egyptians ever saw themselves as African or Middle Eastern? Because in reality what we've determined from their writings is they saw themselves as Egyptians. No concept of what like Africa or Middle East was. They just knew their neighbors and who they traded with. I'm pretty sure it was probably the same thing back then, like I don't think probably the Franks and the Saxons and all of what we would consider. Modern day western europe ever saw themselves as Europeans they saw themselves as their own ethno nationalist city-state that rivaled everyone else. Really hasn't been until like the two world wars that we have this idea of what Europe is. And even then, there's still the question of most people in Western Europe called Poland Eastern European, but the people in the south and Eastern Europe considered Poland Central European. This is why it's kind of stupid to divide lines like this. I think what would probably have been more accurate would have been the byzantines versus everyone else that was west of them. Not necessarily Europeans, but all of the nation states and pseudo countries that made up everyone to the west side of them. Who again probably didn't really see themselves as what we would modernly day think of as European. Never mind that Europeans tend to have a tradition of all of them thinking that they're European. For example, I so important it out. We often classify Greek and Rome as the start of quote western civilization, but in our modern day geomapping, Greek and Rome Southern European. They're not Western European and that really shows not only perspectives from different countries, but how much times have changed. Kind of like how the oriental church doesn't line up with our modern concept of oriental which is east and southeast Asia instead to them. The extreme east at the time was like a Syria, which is literally like a hop, skip and a jump away as opposed to like the other side of the globe. Done with a common loophole because we do this all the time off and without realizing it applying modern terms to ancient people's.
@@KingsandGenerals geographically Speaking The Byzantine were based in Eastern Europe from Constantinople and thus count as European despite their non European territories which they eventually lost anyways. Had your title bee "What did the Western Europeans think about the Eastern Romans? " that would have made more sense.
The statement that the Eastern Romans eat much garlic, onion, and leek might be a reference to Numbers 11:5, where the Israelites complain of their lot during their exodus. These vegetables might be a symbollic condemnation of the worldliness rather than a listing of actual ingredients.
@@imperialstormtrooper1054 The text quoted here, however, does not even attempt to be an objective account of what is seen. It would be much better to reconstruct diet from such sources as recipies, stock inventories, etc.
I lost my mind when he started insulting Mediterranean Dishes 😭😭 Bruh they literally ate Mud with salt back in Northern Europe Imagine insulting dishes that were literally eaten by The Romans of the past
@@maddogbasil The curious thing is that Liutprand's master, Otto, wanted the title of the Roman emperor for himself but Liutprand insults and mocks almost everything Roman. From their cuisine (being obsessed with olive oil is as Roman as it can get) to the clothes they wore (Liutprand bought the famous Roman purple linen but was confiscated later and he was like "pffff... only whores wear that colour back in Cremona anyway" -- like he was the definition of seethe and cope)
First is to be sure to state they are romans and the fact modern historians decided to change things up and rename the eastern roman empire on their whim.
@@higherho1540 It hurts me greatly to even use the word Byzantine, but this is how the teachers and textbook say to call it, but I will be sure to say they were Romans and saw themselves as such, because they were.
@@sevelofficial2696 sounds good. Pains me to hear that modern historians ruining past history. It’s a slap to the face of all those who lived in the Eastern side.
@higherho1540 That's not true. Modern historians don't deny the continuation of the Roman state and don't deny the fact that medieval Greeks had a political Roman identity and were Roman citizens/Romans. What they deny is that the roman identity during the medieval period was supposedly an ethnic one, not a political one (a revisionist theory that you support) . Byzantines were Greeks with Roman citizenship. They didn't see themselves only as Roman citizens but also as Greeks. Considering that you're striving for accuracy it's interesting that you didn't mention this fact at all in your comment.
This channel does an exemplary job depicting not only historical wars and politics, but also historical society and culture. Love it! Also, I would love to see you guys cover Alcek and the small Bulgar horde that settled in Southern Italy at the request of the Lombards.
Now this begs a video to be made entirely about Olives and its use cases in culinary, medicine, lighting lamps, religious ceremonies or just like a gold. There were even a state-subsidized low-grade olive oil shops called popinae that peasants could easily afford. Olive oil literally is the Roman Empire.
Ideas for further in-depth ERE videos - evolving naval control over the Mediterranean, black, Adriatic, and Aegean seas over time - hellenization / romanization of Anatolian peoples - major culture shifts that happen within their immediate periphery and their reactions, such as the emergence of Bulgarians, Albanians, Vlachs, etc - the nature of the Balkans and life of roman people during the avar/magyar/Slavic invasions - the nature of life in Anatolia especially among roman people living there following Manzikert - cultures/people-groups the empire assimilated, like nomads they would scatter settle and convert - their evolving view on which regions the empire had claim to - their view on specific Western European kingdoms over time - a deeper look at the re-hellenization that culminated with Greek independence
Regarding the use of plural at 5:49 My guess would be that Liutprand may have used the Pluralis Majestatis ("royal plural") here to emphasize how much he respects his ruler Otto compared to Nicephorus.
Interesting video, as always. Just one small thing in medieval times it was even usual for common folk to have some travel experience. Sure not as much and world spanning as traders and nobles but a piligrimage was still a normal thing to do. This pilgrimage can easily be a few hundred kilometers. And at medieval times this was often enough to find a different culture, sure not as different than French and Russian but still different.
I honestly prefer these videos about culture to the usual intricate battles. They provide such an interesting window into the lives of people who lived centuries ago, especially in the case of the eastern Romans, who are far from common in western medieval depictions.
The things mentioned at 07:00 are hilarious. There is a clip on TH-cam from the french-german channel "arte" about the division of the French cuisine. It basically says: North of the Loire, people are using butter, south of the Loire, people are using olive oil. And Frenchmen are fighting over this regularily.
This video gives me an idea. Perhaps you could do a video on what the eastern peoples thought about the Eastern Romans. There will be a lot of interesting things there :)
@@catalyst772 Yes and no. They admired them but thought that Latin virtues were better. After all, they were a different people, so it's normal that they wrote it like that.
At 5:55 the dietary differences are reflected in the ancient and modern tradition of extensive fasting in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. For approximately 200 days per year, we Eastern Orthodox abstain from meat, cheese, dairy, wine, olive oil, and even fish with the longest such period being Great Lent each spring. These fasts continue through Sundays, unlike the Western tradition. If the bishop/diplomat was visiting during one of the extended fasts (Great Lent, Apostles Fast, Dormition Fast, or the Nativity Fast), the menu would have been quite limited compared to "the foods to which he was accustomed in Northern Italy." As others have pointed out, the Eastern Roman Emperor would likely have been rather lean rather than rotund, given his reported adherence to these fasting traditions. If the appointment of a key figure IS policy, then it is apparent that Emperor Otto wasn't really interested in a policy of making peace, given the nature of his ambassador. And so the Great Schism lurches ever closer as the first millennium A.D. draws towards its ending.
Even back then, there was a chance that everyone could've gotten along. It proves the point that "important stances" are minimal, and what happens is nowhere near as important as how we respond to them. A little more tolerance and love, and this world would be a better place. Thank you for the video. I much enjoyed it K&G!
Can you make one exploring remnant Byzantine populations in Anatolia? What happened to the Byzantine population who lived under Seljuks / Ilkhanate / Beylik territory after it was lost, how many were displaced and how many assimilated?
They lived until end of the ottoman empire, after ww1 when greek army invade the anatolia and we pushed them back we make a population exchange they gived us survided turks in greece while we give them the greeks remain in anatolia, but there was a problem in that too, we based turk-greek thing on religion not ethnicity so we give them also christian turks while they also give us muslim greeks but doesn't cause too much problem after that and today it remains still
Greeks lived in anatolia until the first decades of the 20th century when the greek genocide (1913-1922) that the Turks commited against the anatolian Greeks took place and then the population exchange of 1923.
@@tezcanuyank3446The population exchange btw Greece and Turkey was based on religion indeed but religion was the separation mark of ethnicities throughout the Ottoman period. You did not gave us Christian Turks, you mean some groups of greeks that arrived from anatolia were turkish speaking...not turks, turkish speaking...and those were mostly from the Cappadocian group since Pontians & Greeks of the Western coast of Anatolia never lost their greek language. Cappadocian Greeks had adopted the Turkish language since they were from very early on surrounded by turkic people's...something that neither Pontians or Ionians had to face, maintaining a greek majority in their areas. The Muslims that left Greece were not Greeks, but Greek speaking...even if in some instances (like in Crete) we know that they were indeed greeks who had converted to islam, the rest of the Muslims, either from Thessaly or Macedonia weren't Greeks but turks, thats how view themselves and how others viewed them...The Muslims from thessaly were greek speaking, lost the Turkish tongue in the process while inhabiting in a greek majority area, but weren't Greeks...since we know that the ottomans had transferred turkic tribes there some centuries ago. Also it's important to remember that Muslims couldn't become Christians, it was illegal and punishable. So, all in all, having the exchange made by the religion fact as more important made sense since that was the most important identity code for all respecting ethnicities to separate each other for centuries.
On behalf of all men, I'd like to thank that lady for popularising perfume in the west. It's pulled me out of a hole more than once when I've forgotten an anniversary or needed to apologise for something I may or may not have done.
I doubt most common people even see a big difference between catholic and orthodox. My very catholic mother, when visiting Russia and Israel, prayed non-chalantly in orthodox churches seemingly completely unaware that it was a different branch of christianity.
East and West had rivalry since ancient times. Roman Conquests just made it fall asleep for a while but the litigious relation regained ground after the Justinian conquests. With the fall of the East Roman Empire, this rivalry migrated towards Russia via Orthodox church, keeping mutual distrust of imperialistic dreams from one to another
I am skeptical.... East and West did not exist in ancient times. There was a single, unitary Mediterranean culture. The divide was between Northern Germanic culture and Mediterranean culture. The Mediterranean basis was always a hodgepodge of many different ethnic elements, the Roman conquest simply blended them together for the first time.
The comments are hilarious. To this day, people in the region will still argue over cuisine. As an American (famous last words in this comment section), all of the foods are great. But none of them beat a good ol cheeseburger from a 100% grass fed cow with fries, and a simple Coca Cola.
To be fair, a lot of the contents of the cuisine in all three of the regions you mentioned were probably vastly different than their modern versions. So they had a lot of things and not a lot of things that you wouldn't associate with today.
In my experience, those like yourself who talk smack about northern European food are normally massively ignorant to what we actually eat and our food in general. Our food is really nutritious, and flavoured subject to what spices we can/could get our hands on, and as a result more savoury in nature. Its food for cold weather, fuel for hard work & it's delicious.
@@jordanwhite352 Not really, the Byzantine cuisine is really just Roman cuisine which had all the typical ingredients Mediterranean cuisine still has: olive oil, garlic/leeks (sorry Liutprand), fish, etc.
@@hnnsy dude I really don’t talk smack about German cuisine or French they have their own great cuisines it was mostly a joke and 2nd I just found it weird for a German not liking Mediterranean food which is rich in olive oil and has great meat also and sweets which back then the Byzantines-romans were one of the few nations that cooked baked sweets 🍫. Also Germany and northern country I’m sure that even back then they had great food like today It’s just like I said it’s weird to find Mediterranean cuisine bad even back then.
I was told that religion was primarly the divide between East and West due to the schism of 1054 and the roots behind that cause. Never occured to me that cuisine was also among the factors of the divide. That said what kind of cuisine the West enjoyed? I may have missed something.
There was no Byzantine Empire, there was no Greek Empire. "Byzantium" was the Roman Empire, ruled by Romans who ruled and resided from the new capital that they transferred to the East so as to save the old, collapsing Roman Empire. The shift from Latin to Greek was a slow and gradual one, and very natural since Romans were always very influenced by Greek thought and language.
The shift from Latin to Greek is only about the sole use of Greek in the official matters of the Empire. Linguistically the East was Greek speaking since before Rome conquer it. Let's remember that
@@vanmars5718 I have not forgotten. Latin and Greek were the two administrative languages of the Roman Republic as well as Roman Empire. But you have to remember that administrative language of the state does not define what country's nationality is. Example, the United States (USA) use English and Spanish for administrative communications but the USA is not an English state, it also is not Spanish. It is American.
@@trantorcapitalofthegalacti3173 I don't make a conversation about ethnicity here (which of course Greek ethnicity existed but the use of the Greek language was extended to way far beyond just the Greeks)...but to argue about the "slow and gradual" as also the "natural since Romans were influenced by". It wasn't about being slow and gradual since Greek was already the main language in the eastern roman provinces...The decision to make Greek the sole official should be examined in the political, geographical, territorial and the actual reality of the empire in the 6th-7th-8th century. And the line "natural since the romans were influenced by Greek" it makes no sense when we talk about the Eastern Roman Empire...your line almost suggest that the Eastern Roman Empire was latin but it was "influenced" by Greek thus became Greek speaking which is not the case. The whole point here is to raise the awareness that we still don't see the Eastern Roman Empire through its own geography, culture and it's own version of romanitas but through western latin lenses that seems that are the only lenses that we want to see the "Byzantines" if we gonna acknowledge them as true Roman Empire.
@@trantorcapitalofthegalacti3173 I don't want to make analogy with a modern state, especially one like USA...and compare it to the Eastern Rome. USA was created in another continent, former colonies of Britain... This isn't the equivalent of what Eastern Rome was and the relationship with the Greeks...except if we have to pretend that the Greek peninsula, the Greek islands, Cyprus, Ionia, Pontus and the region around Constantinople were not inhabited by ethnic Greeks from the moment they became part of the Roman Empire but instead we consider their own native lands as Terra Incognita that the empire colonized (no history before, no people of specific culture and language).
There was no shift to Latin: Greek commoners had always spoken Greek, under Roman domination (Latin) or under their very own Eastern Roman Empire. The latter was really their rule, representing their people and culture, not the ones in Italy.
The Byzantines were masters of diplomacy and intrigue. One of their secret weapons was "Greek fire," a mysterious incendiary liquid used in naval battles that could burn even on water! This technology remained a closely guarded secret, helping the Byzantines defend their empire for centuries.
The ambassador's visit is presented as the visit of an English nobleman to an African country in the 19th century. The truth is that the ambassador's desire to present himself as a representative of the Western Roman state was ineffective. On the contrary, the emperor told him "You are not a Roman, you are a Longibard". The Εast never called them Romans. Finally the Germanic tribes (who destroyed old Rome) also destroyed New Rome after 7 centuries. In the end they destroy them even more. They called them Byzantines (neither Greek nor Roman). History is written by the winners.
Next up for future ideas as vids in mind please K&G... What did the Arabs + Persians, Slavs + Vikings, Normans + Turks, Crusaders + Indians, Chinese and later Mongols think about the Eastern Romans & Empire? Maybe even... what do modern people now think about the Eastern Romans & Empire... a great vid to make about how we as modern peoples & societies in later centuries thought about, on how it was once considered post Ottoman conquest just as an offset of the Greek Empire, to now being accepted as a continuation of the Roman empire during the dark & medieval middle ages... and how the internet allowed us all to appreciate it more in the history now more more accessible for all of us to learn in reading. 😊 This would be epic... hope you enjoyed these ideas as my gift for you in later making. 😎😉
I mean, they'd consider most people today - Anglo or not - as effeminate softies given the comforts and lifestyles ("you don't know how to murder people and plow the fields at the age of 22? TF have you been doing??") modern advanced countries have.
@@groundzero5708 Nah. Mediterranean is better. Because you can overdo protein. And lighter meat is better than heavier meat. Olive oil is better than butter. Goat cheese is better than cow cheese. Etc etc
“Greeks were generally the largest and most influential ethnic group in both Anatolia and the Byzantine Empire, especially from the Hellenistic period onward. By the time of the Byzantine Empire, Greeks were the predominant ethnic group in the urban and administrative centers, particularly in Constantinople and other key cities. Greek became the official language in the empire under Emperor Heraclius in the 7th century. This cemented the cultural dominance of Greek-speaking populations, especially in Asia Minor (Anatolia), which was a vital part of the empire. Many influential figures, such as Byzantine Emperors and Military Commanders, came from Greek-speaking regions”. Arnold J. Toynbee, “A Study of History”.
The HRE and medieval Europe in general could never rival the Eastern Roman Empire both militarily and culturally. But after the east fell so died with Glory of Rome and the civilization that existed, HRE was never a true continuation of the western Roman Empire.
But the Lombards would later kick the East-Romans out of Italy, Charlemagne would succesfully reuinted the Christian West under his reign. With the development of Gothic architecture, the West had become (Culturally) completely independent from Constantinople.
In the debate over the sack of Constantinople, it is crucial to acknowledge the atrocities committed during the massacre of the Latins and the Angelos affair. The blame for the sack cannot be placed solely on one side. The responsibility also lies with Alexios V Doukas and both parties involved must share the burden of guilt.
He did mention the massacre of the Latins. What he did not mention is the insolence of the Latins that lead to their massacre. They had become, after being given these trading privileges, increasingly dismissive and insulting to the Empire and the Emperor. The massacre wasn't unprovoked (although a wholesale massacre ofc wasn't justified...), the Italians were literally causing havoc in the city and the Imperial forces couldn't contain them (burning each other's quarters, raping, murdering people, mocking the Emperor publicly etc). The Angelos affair should've been mentioned though. The sack happened after a series of events (and in Angelos's case, extremely incompetent leadership), it wasn't simply that the Latins invaded the city to exact revenge.
@@Manuel-qu3tc I wasn't referring to the video but in general. People only know about the Sack but not the long series of events leading to it. And about the Italians, it was the the emperor Alexios I Komnenos that granted privileges to the Republic of Venice for strategic, economic and diplomatic reasons. He sought military support, boosting the empire's economy and strengthening its international relations and saw the aid of the Italians as a necessity and they really aided the Romans, one example is against Roger.
@@vitorpereira9515 I literally said that the Latins after being granted these trading privileges, tried to wreck havoc on the Empire - Ofc Alexios granted them but the Genoese, the Pisans, and the Venetians were literally killing each other (and the Romans) in Constantinople. They were also mocking the Emperor and the Empire publicly, abusing their privileges and position.
The sack of Thessalonica and the massacre of its population by the Kingdom of Sicily should also be mentioned. It worsen the relationship between the Empire and the West a lot.
The recent update made the mongols a little bit too powerful. 3 out of my 5 last playthroughs they always got vassalized by mongols. I am waiting for the persia flavor pack to start playing as the Seljuks too
@@ImKarl I only play the early start dates so ill get bored and start over before the Mongols show up. Also I have so many mods that change how the game plays.
@@chezgomitSo based that it collapsed when Alexander died. Don't get me wrong, Alexander and his conquest were great, especially given how young Alexander was but the empire died with its founder. The Roman Empire lasted far longer than Augustus.
@@Anders_Lund the eastern roman empire had last because they found in the east a foundation ready to continue the empire after the fatherland latium of rome had fell to the germans , this foundation was a solid population Greek or hellenized that was spread from Hellenic peninsula to Caucasus uper India levand northern africa and Bactria , these homogenous population was there for more than thousand years at the time of the Hellenistic period, that was the base for the eastern roman empire to survive for more than thousan years , so maybe the crown of rome had settle in the Constantinople , but after the fatherland italium latium fell the east was the revival of the Macedonian empire at least culturally....thats why eastern romans had speaking greek , and Greek was the official language of the empire ,because the majority of the people in the east were greek or hellenized people
Now I wonder when did the northern part of Italy switched back to a more Mediterranean cuisine. Or do they still prefer eggs, butter and meat in Lombardy nowadays to olive oil, garlic and onions?
Italian cuisine is very regional, with lot of different dishes depending on the area that you visit. Olive oil was always used all over Italy (Liutprand was part of the small Lombard population, that had different customs from the rest of the Italians) but the south and the centre tend to use more of it for the simple reason that olive trees find a perfect climate from Sicily to Tuscany. Butter too is used all over Italy but the in the north they still use more of it, generally speaking the local diet was of course more influenced by the local climate and avaiable products in the past.
In the video they were discussing the life of a Germanic caste, not representative of the culture of Northern Italy. Latin culture hadn't left Italy. After all, Italy remains at the centre of what was the Roman Empire and was its actual homeland, unlike the colonies.
@@Goldenskies__ Northern Italians have never been a Germanic people though, since the Celts were routed or the few remaining assimilated. We’re talking more than 2000 years ago.
Probably: "Sure. I'm dumpy and hairy. And I am THE Roman Emperor. Who were you again?" And of course, the guy wrote that in his report back to his boss, he did not drop it to the Emperor's face. That would have been dumb, and very painfully terminal.
🎥 Join our TH-cam members and patrons to unlock exclusive content! Our community is currently enjoying deep dives into the First Punic War, Pacific War, history of Prussia, Italian Unification Wars, Russo-Japanese War, Albigensian Crusade, and Xenophon’s Anabasis. Become a part of this exclusive circle: th-cam.com/channels/MmaBzfCCwZ2KqaBJjkj0fw.htmljoin or patron: www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals and Paypal paypal.me/kingsangenerals as well!
Love your work, will those series be released on the normal TH-cam in the future
will you be releasing the rest of your pacific war series on here as well, or have you moved it to your patreon?
Next up for future ideas as vids in mind please K&G... What did the Arabs + Persians, Slavs + Vikings, Normans + Turks, Crusaders + Indians, Chinese and later Mongols think about the Eastern Romans & Empire?
Maybe even... what do modern people now think about the Eastern Romans & Empire... a great vid to make about how we as modern peoples & societies in later centuries thought about, on how it was once considered post Ottoman conquest just as an offset of the Greek Empire, to now being accepted as a continuation of the Roman empire during the dark & medieval middle ages... and how the internet allowed us all to appreciate it more in the history now more more accessible for all of us to learn in reading. 😊
This would be epic... hope you enjoyed these ideas as my gift for you in later making. 😎😉
You mean Western European in the title
I see comments from people who deny that Sena Romans but it's funny because the Romans copied everything from the Greeks and the Greeks copied the Middle Eastern empires, the Persians and Egypt. Many say that the Greeks copied the Romans but it would be copying themselves since the Romans were the first to copy Greek culture.
That roast of Nikaphoros was savage
I was like dam lmao 😂
That was a god damn slander
Would the Eastern Romans have allowed him to stay any further, had they known, what Liutprand was writing?
@@SpaceReptilioid ofcourse not they will envy
Byzantine beef is always one of my favorite K&G video topics.
I love the interest in bizantine history that K&G exhibits! This insight in the cultural aspects of it is very interesting
Roman history. No such thing as bizantines.
@@higherho1540bro shut up
@@higherho1540It's medieval Greek history. Or history of the medieval Roman Empire. It's not Roman history since ancient romans had nothing to do with the empire during the medieval period.
@@gilpaubelid3780 eastern roman empire citizens were romans, the politics, etc. they did not call themselves bezantines. Modern historians changed it, if you look at original documents, it also shows them called as romans. Late antiquity ended after constanople fell.
@@higherho1540 Byzantines were Greeks with Roman citizenship that took under their control the Roman state during the medieval period. When we're saying that they were Romans, we mean politically. Not that they were the same people as the ancient romans. That's why I said that byzantine history is the medieval Greek history or the history of the medieval Roman state but not the history of the ancient Roman people. The inhabitants of Constantinople called themselves Byzantines, the term just wasn't used for the whole empire like we use it today. When it comes to the original sources Byzantines called themselves Rhomaioi (Romans), Graikoi (Greeks), Hellenes (Greeks), Helladikoi (Greeks) and Rhomellenes (Roman Greeks).
Always love medieval byzantine history!
Can him cover Justinian the first conquests in new form of course because he can't make content for no members only members should watch and his old supporters are forgotten 😞 anyway new video about belarrusius campaigns with an additional coverage about the Iberian campaign will be 😃👍
@@talebmalainine I am so confused by what you mean
@@bfdiepictennisballbfdi2359 there is an old playlist Justin conquest and it's old but we'll detailed just new animation and the add of Iberian (Spain+Portugal) campaign it will be a great video 👍
@@talebmalainine Ok, I get that part now, but I don't see why you think they forgot about the non-members
Roman*
Love the details of direct quotes being utilized more often in videos. Excellent touch to bring greater depth to the videos.
Whatever you've got for Eastern Roman history, from high politics, theology and statescraft, to simply akriti poetry, and comparing regular life between Cappadocia, Kherson, Constantinople and Hellas through the ages, I'm more than happy to hear.
Also, i wouldn't be against some Ostrogothic Kingdom/Lombard stuff.
This was excellent ! Thank you K and G- Now you can make one on what the Greeks thought of the Germanic tribes so we can get both perspectives!
We made a video like that previously - th-cam.com/video/w9zmSAsGj1Q/w-d-xo.html
Before I was seriously interested in history I really thought the Romans faded away and THEN the medieval European kingdoms emerged. It absolutely blew my mind when I learned the Roman Empire continued to exist alongside medieval Europe for a thousand years, and ever since I've been absolutely fascinated by the Eastern Romans. It's just sad watching their territory get smaller and smaller every century.
And it would have lasted until the present day if it wasn’t for the 4th Crusade
Yes, as a Chinese, my experience is the same as yours.The German barbarians made up lies to steal the glory of the Roman Empire, even though they had nothing to do with it.
They reduced the Eastern Roman Empire to Byzantium, just as they reduced the Ming Dynasty to the Ji(蓟) Empire, because Beijing's name in the Shang and Zhou Dynasties was Ji. No one has done this yet due to the continuity of Chinese history, but the name Byzantium is just ridiculous.
@@개고기수프 I'm delighted at least one Chinese person has an interest in Roman history ("ByZaNtinE").
@@Manuel-qu3tc Not “at least one”, just “SO MANY”.
In the dark Middle Ages, there was only one empire whose level of civilization could compare to China, and that was the Eastern Roman Empire.
Arabs say that the Chinese have two eyes, the Greeks of Eastern Rome have one eye, and all other ethnic groups in the world are blind.
@gege1103
True. Catholics weakened the Empire and the Ottomans struck the killing blow.
Ironically, Ottomans gave the Catholics hell later on too, which could've been avoided if they aided Byzantine in the first place
We knew that Liutprand's report was ridiculous from the first words of him describing the Emperor(completely different description of the Emperor's depictions). We then also learned Liutprand was uncultured through his hate of olive oil
WHERE'S THE LARD
Liutprand didn't hate olive oil, but the overabundance of it.
This may be a subtle difference, but a difference still.
@@remilenoir1271 see that's where you're wrong,you can't overuse olive oil. Olive oil is the God of cooking,the MSG of Greek cuisine. There's no Greek meal without olive oil. It's our oil,our butter,our dipping sauce it's even in the iconostasis! We literally fast 40 days before Christmas,48 days before Easter,15 days in the start of August and every Wednesday and Friday but the one week we can't eat olive oil(the week before Easter)that's where we draw the line
@@thegreekguy1124 You didn't prove me wrong in any way.
Liutprand didn't like the overabundance of olive oil. You like overabundance of olive oil.
Neither of these facts constitutes evidence for Liutprand hating olive oil.
@@remilenoir1271 man can't take a joke even if it's delivered to him in a plate...
Also anybody who doesn't like olive oil is uncultured,CHANGE MY MIND
Great content! As a Greek I love the Eastern Roman Empire
I mean, the ERE was Greek/Greece. Hellas would be just a region of country today hadn't the empire fallen :)
@@Forlfir That's a very nonsensical comment if there ever was one. The eastern Roman Empire was never Greece--neither as a state, a nation nor even an ethnicity. Eastern Rome stretched from upper eastern Europe (modern Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia) to Libya, Egypt and Anatolia, including lands. During Justinian's reconquest, it extended all the way to Mauretania. The only century that it ever becomes close to resembling a Greek state is maybe after the 14th century, and even then it's questionable as the people of that time were self-identifying as the Romans' descendants. It really wasn't until the 19th century that the Romaioi of Greece began to redevelop a unique Hellenic (Greek) identity, and it grew only after substantial influence from major Western European powers who spurred the creation of it.
@@ΡωμαϊκόνΠύρThat's also a wrong point to see the empire. Of course both the Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire were empires...multiethnic entities. The Western part had many different people but Ronanitas expressed through the Latin language and culture while in the East, Romanitas was expressed through the Greek language and culture (based in the older Hellenistic substrum also). The main core of the Western Roman were the lands around latio/Rome traditionally while in the East the undisputed core of the Empire were indeed the lands of the native Greek speakers, going back to ancient Greek history....thus isn't weird that the last of all people who remained "Romans" are the people who were from the native Greek territories. Greek peninsula, Greek islands, Ionia, Pontus and the region around Constantinople.
The matter of identity is more complicated and not to say "ohh they started to identify as Hellenes because of western influence" since we have already in Byzantium a rise of acknowledgement of their greek actual ethnicity but it wasn't something that had to make it official...the main point in their own time and cultural understanding was their own understanding of romanitas...Greek speaking and Orthodox. And that version of Romanitas was very much in place until the creation of modern Greece...but periodically always we have people embracing both terms (romaios and hellene) for themselves...both became important for their own background, deep history and existence.
The use of the term Hellene as sole term is a history of the evolution of Europe in 19th century and is not a subject that is weird if examine the political understanding and new age Europe entered.
@user-qz4go8pf8l
Well , you are right , but you are also wrong...
The hellenization of the Empire was already on tracks in the 7th century, when Hellenic became the official language. With the loss of the non Greek speaking areas by the Arabs and and other raiders , the sense of a more homogenous Greek "ethnicity " became stronger.
The absolute turning points were the schism and 1204.
We have plenty enough documentation that the Byzantines used the terms Greek and Hellene on par with Roman for selfidentification long before the 19th century that you falsely write.
And of course, they didn't need any westerners to tell them what and who they were.
@@ΡωμαϊκόνΠύρThe consensus was also that the Romans were originally Greek so for the Byzantines to claim Roman origins does not by any means contradict them also claiming ancient Hellenic origins on the direct contrary, the ancient Romans and Hellenes were very much connected and the same, and the Byzantines claimed to originate from both.
The eastern Roman province of the empire was always Hellenic in character, the concept of “Nation” is a very modern concept therefore not applicable to older history, Byzantine Rome being no exception, it was an empire not a nation but it still doesn’t neglect that it was Hellenic. Alexander’s empire wasn’t a nation either but an empire, but no one neglects the fact that it was Hellenic.
Yes! Another Eastern Roman video! Keep it coming thank you!
More to come!
These are definitely my favorite videos now. Love the deep dive into medieval diplomatic affairs.
Thank you for your interest in the Eastern Roman Empire. Excellent video!
My ancestors. I am from Mystras. Long live the Palaiologos name.
Great content!
I wouldn’t call it “European” perspective on the Byzantines simply because the notion makes them looking “less” European than the Western states.
Greco-Roman civilization is the essence of the European civilization, and Byzantines were exactly that. Not to mention that they still considered Germanic states barbarian at the time.
I need you to think about it. You basically move the terms back and forth across the eras to come to this conclusion. Did the Byzantines think that they were Europeans? I don't think so. It is ok to say that the Greco-Roman culture was central to the Enlightenment and as such played the crucial role in what we perceive as European right now, but that wasn't a universally accepted truth in the period we are talking about. Our title is purely geographical because of the addition of "Western". And, yes, you are correct, a denizen of Constantinople of the era would have probably felt more affinity with the Copts or the Syriacs or the Armenians, and not the Franks and such.
@@KingsandGenerals I agree. The reason I’d feel more comfortable with terms other than “European” is because of today’s environment, not because of how each side felt at the time. Today the term carries additional connotations and the same can be said if it’s put as a contrast to another term. Just my two cents.
@@WanaxTV I don't think using modern environment is a good idea for a historical documentary. Thanks for supporting us and your comment!
@@KingsandGeneralsI what they're talking about here is the fact that even in modern day, depending on where you stand in a nation determines what your view of what counts as Europe is never mind the confusing view back then. And it's really important to not put modern day concepts like European to describe ancient people's. Kind of the same question as if the Egyptians ever saw themselves as African or Middle Eastern? Because in reality what we've determined from their writings is they saw themselves as Egyptians. No concept of what like Africa or Middle East was. They just knew their neighbors and who they traded with. I'm pretty sure it was probably the same thing back then, like I don't think probably the Franks and the Saxons and all of what we would consider. Modern day western europe ever saw themselves as Europeans they saw themselves as their own ethno nationalist city-state that rivaled everyone else. Really hasn't been until like the two world wars that we have this idea of what Europe is. And even then, there's still the question of most people in Western Europe called Poland Eastern European, but the people in the south and Eastern Europe considered Poland Central European. This is why it's kind of stupid to divide lines like this. I think what would probably have been more accurate would have been the byzantines versus everyone else that was west of them. Not necessarily Europeans, but all of the nation states and pseudo countries that made up everyone to the west side of them. Who again probably didn't really see themselves as what we would modernly day think of as European. Never mind that Europeans tend to have a tradition of all of them thinking that they're European. For example, I so important it out. We often classify Greek and Rome as the start of quote western civilization, but in our modern day geomapping, Greek and Rome Southern European. They're not Western European and that really shows not only perspectives from different countries, but how much times have changed. Kind of like how the oriental church doesn't line up with our modern concept of oriental which is east and southeast Asia instead to them. The extreme east at the time was like a Syria, which is literally like a hop, skip and a jump away as opposed to like the other side of the globe. Done with a common loophole because we do this all the time off and without realizing it applying modern terms to ancient people's.
@@KingsandGenerals geographically Speaking The Byzantine were based in Eastern Europe from Constantinople and thus count as European despite their non European territories which they eventually lost anyways. Had your title bee "What did the Western Europeans think about the Eastern Romans? " that would have made more sense.
The statement that the Eastern Romans eat much garlic, onion, and leek might be a reference to Numbers 11:5, where the Israelites complain of their lot during their exodus. These vegetables might be a symbollic condemnation of the worldliness rather than a listing of actual ingredients.
Perhaps, but anyone who has ever gone to the Mediterranean will find that the locals do eat these things, it is part of the Mediterranean diet.
@@imperialstormtrooper1054 The text quoted here, however, does not even attempt to be an objective account of what is seen. It would be much better to reconstruct diet from such sources as recipies, stock inventories, etc.
Imagine taking seriously the culinary opinions of a NORTHERN "Italian".
Lol, shots fired
I lost my mind when he started insulting Mediterranean Dishes 😭😭
Bruh they literally ate Mud with salt back in Northern Europe
Imagine insulting dishes that were literally eaten by The Romans of the past
@maddogbasil did they really eat mud with salt back then bruh? Literally I mean, of course?
Southern Italy is literally a third world country.
@@maddogbasil The curious thing is that Liutprand's master, Otto, wanted the title of the Roman emperor for himself but Liutprand insults and mocks almost everything Roman. From their cuisine (being obsessed with olive oil is as Roman as it can get) to the clothes they wore (Liutprand bought the famous Roman purple linen but was confiscated later and he was like "pffff... only whores wear that colour back in Cremona anyway" -- like he was the definition of seethe and cope)
I am a student teacher about to give my first lesson plans ever which are about the Byzantine Empire, so perfect timing! Thank you Kings and Generals!
First is to be sure to state they are romans and the fact modern historians decided to change things up and rename the eastern roman empire on their whim.
@@higherho1540 It hurts me greatly to even use the word Byzantine, but this is how the teachers and textbook say to call it, but I will be sure to say they were Romans and saw themselves as such, because they were.
@@sevelofficial2696 change start with one step
@@sevelofficial2696 sounds good. Pains me to hear that modern historians ruining past history. It’s a slap to the face of all those who lived in the Eastern side.
@higherho1540 That's not true. Modern historians don't deny the continuation of the Roman state and don't deny the fact that medieval Greeks had a political Roman identity and were Roman citizens/Romans. What they deny is that the roman identity during the medieval period was supposedly an ethnic one, not a political one (a revisionist theory that you support) . Byzantines were Greeks with Roman citizenship. They didn't see themselves only as Roman citizens but also as Greeks. Considering that you're striving for accuracy it's interesting that you didn't mention this fact at all in your comment.
This channel does an exemplary job depicting not only historical wars and politics, but also historical society and culture. Love it!
Also, I would love to see you guys cover Alcek and the small Bulgar horde that settled in Southern Italy at the request of the Lombards.
But that was so small horde who didn't left any impact in history.
And yet archaeologists have found Bulgar steppe burials in the sounthern Appenines.
I sincerely dont understand why K&G views aren't as high as they should be, their work is extraordinary
Great video! I would love to see a video on this channel that focuses on the Lombard conquest of Italy
I cant believe it but you guys are somehow getting better, the quality of these recent videos are insane. Well done K&Gs
These granular level view into a time so long ago are fantastic. Thank you for all of your good work.
If you like Theodora's story you would love more the one of Theophanu Skleraina and how she introduced the use of fork in Western Europe and not only
Please links!
17:18 and an excellent history documentary! Thanks for this great video.
Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍
The views of Constantinople in 7:43... goosebumps!
The eastern Roman empire was always one of the most fascinating aspects in the medieval era
Big fan of the 4th crusade, fuck those guys
Great video, you guys never disappoint!
Great video as always
Now this begs a video to be made entirely about Olives and its use cases in culinary, medicine, lighting lamps, religious ceremonies or just like a gold. There were even a state-subsidized low-grade olive oil shops called popinae that peasants could easily afford. Olive oil literally is the Roman Empire.
Damn, that bishop may have created the first roast session because he *cooked* Nikephoros.
I love it.
Good Documentary.
Ideas for further in-depth ERE videos
- evolving naval control over the Mediterranean, black, Adriatic, and Aegean seas over time
- hellenization / romanization of Anatolian peoples
- major culture shifts that happen within their immediate periphery and their reactions, such as the emergence of Bulgarians, Albanians, Vlachs, etc
- the nature of the Balkans and life of roman people during the avar/magyar/Slavic invasions
- the nature of life in Anatolia especially among roman people living there following Manzikert
- cultures/people-groups the empire assimilated, like nomads they would scatter settle and convert
- their evolving view on which regions the empire had claim to
- their view on specific Western European kingdoms over time
- a deeper look at the re-hellenization that culminated with Greek independence
Always love the videos
Perfect topic.
Any plan to make Al-Andalus/Granada video? I will be glad if you have 👀
Yep, not sure when
Regarding the use of plural at 5:49
My guess would be that Liutprand may have used the Pluralis Majestatis ("royal plural") here to emphasize how much he respects his ruler Otto compared to Nicephorus.
I think he's referring to both Otto and his son (...Otto II) for whom the princess was intended. Hence the plural.
Interesting video, as always. Just one small thing in medieval times it was even usual for common folk to have some travel experience. Sure not as much and world spanning as traders and nobles but a piligrimage was still a normal thing to do. This pilgrimage can easily be a few hundred kilometers. And at medieval times this was often enough to find a different culture, sure not as different than French and Russian but still different.
Excellent video as always. Nice to see a part of history largely forgotten being discussed in detail.
I honestly prefer these videos about culture to the usual intricate battles. They provide such an interesting window into the lives of people who lived centuries ago, especially in the case of the eastern Romans, who are far from common in western medieval depictions.
Tiktok: How much do YOU think about the Roman Empire?
Liutprand: Pffff none at all!
Thank you for shading light on more overlooked aspects of history!
The things mentioned at 07:00 are hilarious. There is a clip on TH-cam from the french-german channel "arte" about the division of the French cuisine. It basically says: North of the Loire, people are using butter, south of the Loire, people are using olive oil. And Frenchmen are fighting over this regularily.
Hello God of Math
This needs to blow up!!
This video gives me an idea. Perhaps you could do a video on what the eastern peoples thought about the Eastern Romans. There will be a lot of interesting things there :)
The Venetians regarded their largest trading partner, the Greeks with mistrust and contempt. Why does this sound so familiar?
Because that's how the Romans saw the Greeks.
@@gs7828 not really, the Romans greatly admired the Greeks
US and China
Greeks were granted roman citizenship.
@@catalyst772 Yes and no. They admired them but thought that Latin virtues were better. After all, they were a different people, so it's normal that they wrote it like that.
At 5:55 the dietary differences are reflected in the ancient and modern tradition of extensive fasting in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. For approximately 200 days per year, we Eastern Orthodox abstain from meat, cheese, dairy, wine, olive oil, and even fish with the longest such period being Great Lent each spring. These fasts continue through Sundays, unlike the Western tradition. If the bishop/diplomat was visiting during one of the extended fasts (Great Lent, Apostles Fast, Dormition Fast, or the Nativity Fast), the menu would have been quite limited compared to "the foods to which he was accustomed in Northern Italy." As others have pointed out, the Eastern Roman Emperor would likely have been rather lean rather than rotund, given his reported adherence to these fasting traditions.
If the appointment of a key figure IS policy, then it is apparent that Emperor Otto wasn't really interested in a policy of making peace, given the nature of his ambassador. And so the Great Schism lurches ever closer as the first millennium A.D. draws towards its ending.
plz dont eat meat
@@groundzero5708 You already coinvinced me to eat MORE meat.
you guys answering all my midnight insomnia questions.
Even back then, there was a chance that everyone could've gotten along. It proves the point that "important stances" are minimal, and what happens is nowhere near as important as how we respond to them. A little more tolerance and love, and this world would be a better place.
Thank you for the video. I much enjoyed it K&G!
that was awesome
Thank you for sharing with us!
Thanks Kings & Generals, now I am thinking about the Romans again many times today :D
Great video! Interesting time people I feel like I don’t see a ton of videos on. Thanks!
Can you make one exploring remnant Byzantine populations in Anatolia? What happened to the Byzantine population who lived under Seljuks / Ilkhanate / Beylik territory after it was lost, how many were displaced and how many assimilated?
Seconding this!
They lived until end of the ottoman empire, after ww1 when greek army invade the anatolia and we pushed them back we make a population exchange they gived us survided turks in greece while we give them the greeks remain in anatolia, but there was a problem in that too, we based turk-greek thing on religion not ethnicity so we give them also christian turks while they also give us muslim greeks but doesn't cause too much problem after that and today it remains still
Greeks lived in anatolia until the first decades of the 20th century when the greek genocide (1913-1922) that the Turks commited against the anatolian Greeks took place and then the population exchange of 1923.
I realize that but what we’re their lives like? How did they perceive the sultanate? Their old empire?
@@tezcanuyank3446The population exchange btw Greece and Turkey was based on religion indeed but religion was the separation mark of ethnicities throughout the Ottoman period. You did not gave us Christian Turks, you mean some groups of greeks that arrived from anatolia were turkish speaking...not turks, turkish speaking...and those were mostly from the Cappadocian group since Pontians & Greeks of the Western coast of Anatolia never lost their greek language. Cappadocian Greeks had adopted the Turkish language since they were from very early on surrounded by turkic people's...something that neither Pontians or Ionians had to face, maintaining a greek majority in their areas.
The Muslims that left Greece were not Greeks, but Greek speaking...even if in some instances (like in Crete) we know that they were indeed greeks who had converted to islam, the rest of the Muslims, either from Thessaly or Macedonia weren't Greeks but turks, thats how view themselves and how others viewed them...The Muslims from thessaly were greek speaking, lost the Turkish tongue in the process while inhabiting in a greek majority area, but weren't Greeks...since we know that the ottomans had transferred turkic tribes there some centuries ago.
Also it's important to remember that Muslims couldn't become Christians, it was illegal and punishable.
So, all in all, having the exchange made by the religion fact as more important made sense since that was the most important identity code for all respecting ethnicities to separate each other for centuries.
Great work as usual
On behalf of all men, I'd like to thank that lady for popularising perfume in the west. It's pulled me out of a hole more than once when I've forgotten an anniversary or needed to apologise for something I may or may not have done.
Anyone else get awesome vibes from seeing "This video is brought to you by kind patrons like you." 🥰
Finally we get a Luiprand mention in a KNG video. Can’t wait for the Ottonians to get some love.
Thank you for this content.
I doubt most common people even see a big difference between catholic and orthodox. My very catholic mother, when visiting Russia and Israel, prayed non-chalantly in orthodox churches seemingly completely unaware that it was a different branch of christianity.
People on tiktok: How much do you think about the Roman Empire?
Me: watching a video on Sunday about Roman fermented fish sauce 😂
East and West had rivalry since ancient times. Roman Conquests just made it fall asleep for a while but the litigious relation regained ground after the Justinian conquests. With the fall of the East Roman Empire, this rivalry migrated towards Russia via Orthodox church, keeping mutual distrust of imperialistic dreams from one to another
Which is hilarious when you see how the orthodox Roman church is now.
I am skeptical.... East and West did not exist in ancient times. There was a single, unitary Mediterranean culture. The divide was between Northern Germanic culture and Mediterranean culture. The Mediterranean basis was always a hodgepodge of many different ethnic elements, the Roman conquest simply blended them together for the first time.
If the east hates west because "Muh Imperialism" then, have they ever apologized for devastating Italy under the reign of justinian?
Great video
The comments are hilarious. To this day, people in the region will still argue over cuisine. As an American (famous last words in this comment section), all of the foods are great. But none of them beat a good ol cheeseburger from a 100% grass fed cow with fries, and a simple Coca Cola.
Lol, just adding to the fire
I’m just glad somebody actually mentioned the massacre of the Latin for once.
yes ,every byzantine ortho larper will justify it .
Imagine being a German judging Greek and Mediterranean diet 😂. ( I mean cmon it’s 10times healthier and richer)
To be fair, a lot of the contents of the cuisine in all three of the regions you mentioned were probably vastly different than their modern versions. So they had a lot of things and not a lot of things that you wouldn't associate with today.
In my experience, those like yourself who talk smack about northern European food are normally massively ignorant to what we actually eat and our food in general. Our food is really nutritious, and flavoured subject to what spices we can/could get our hands on, and as a result more savoury in nature. Its food for cold weather, fuel for hard work & it's delicious.
@@jordanwhite352 Not really, the Byzantine cuisine is really just Roman cuisine which had all the typical ingredients Mediterranean cuisine still has: olive oil, garlic/leeks (sorry Liutprand), fish, etc.
@@hnnsy dude I really don’t talk smack about German cuisine or French they have their own great cuisines it was mostly a joke and 2nd I just found it weird for a German not liking Mediterranean food which is rich in olive oil and has great meat also and sweets which back then the Byzantines-romans were one of the few nations that cooked baked sweets 🍫. Also Germany and northern country I’m sure that even back then they had great food like today It’s just like I said it’s weird to find Mediterranean cuisine bad even back then.
@@Manuel-qu3tcThe Greeks had "Roman" cuisine? Seriously now?
Kudos for the good work
I was told that religion was primarly the divide between East and West due to the schism of 1054 and the roots behind that cause. Never occured to me that cuisine was also among the factors of the divide.
That said what kind of cuisine the West enjoyed? I may have missed something.
There was no Byzantine Empire, there was no Greek Empire. "Byzantium" was the Roman Empire, ruled by Romans who ruled and resided from the new capital that they transferred to the East so as to save the old, collapsing Roman Empire. The shift from Latin to Greek was a slow and gradual one, and very natural since Romans were always very influenced by Greek thought and language.
The shift from Latin to Greek is only about the sole use of Greek in the official matters of the Empire. Linguistically the East was Greek speaking since before Rome conquer it. Let's remember that
@@vanmars5718 I have not forgotten. Latin and Greek were the two administrative languages of the Roman Republic as well as Roman Empire. But you have to remember that administrative language of the state does not define what country's nationality is. Example, the United States (USA) use English and Spanish for administrative communications but the USA is not an English state, it also is not Spanish. It is American.
@@trantorcapitalofthegalacti3173 I don't make a conversation about ethnicity here (which of course Greek ethnicity existed but the use of the Greek language was extended to way far beyond just the Greeks)...but to argue about the "slow and gradual" as also the "natural since Romans were influenced by". It wasn't about being slow and gradual since Greek was already the main language in the eastern roman provinces...The decision to make Greek the sole official should be examined in the political, geographical, territorial and the actual reality of the empire in the 6th-7th-8th century.
And the line "natural since the romans were influenced by Greek" it makes no sense when we talk about the Eastern Roman Empire...your line almost suggest that the Eastern Roman Empire was latin but it was "influenced" by Greek thus became Greek speaking which is not the case.
The whole point here is to raise the awareness that we still don't see the Eastern Roman Empire through its own geography, culture and it's own version of romanitas but through western latin lenses that seems that are the only lenses that we want to see the "Byzantines" if we gonna acknowledge them as true Roman Empire.
@@trantorcapitalofthegalacti3173 I don't want to make analogy with a modern state, especially one like USA...and compare it to the Eastern Rome.
USA was created in another continent, former colonies of Britain...
This isn't the equivalent of what Eastern Rome was and the relationship with the Greeks...except if we have to pretend that the Greek peninsula, the Greek islands, Cyprus, Ionia, Pontus and the region around Constantinople were not inhabited by ethnic Greeks from the moment they became part of the Roman Empire but instead we consider their own native lands as Terra Incognita that the empire colonized (no history before, no people of specific culture and language).
There was no shift to Latin: Greek commoners had always spoken Greek, under Roman domination (Latin) or under their very own Eastern Roman Empire. The latter was really their rule, representing their people and culture, not the ones in Italy.
Love it
The Byzantines were masters of diplomacy and intrigue. One of their secret weapons was "Greek fire," a mysterious incendiary liquid used in naval battles that could burn even on water! This technology remained a closely guarded secret, helping the Byzantines defend their empire for centuries.
Eastern Roman History, In my opinion, is underappreciated. Thank you, Kings and Generals!
Great video
4:32 is he referring to the Ulysses from the Odyssey?
Good video. Now you have to do one not only about how the Westerners saw them but one about Eastern Roman identity.
great work
A video about the Akritai would be nice
The ambassador's visit is presented as the visit of an English nobleman to an African country in the 19th century. The truth is that the ambassador's desire to present himself as a representative of the Western Roman state was ineffective. On the contrary, the emperor told him "You are not a Roman, you are a Longibard". The Εast never called them Romans. Finally the Germanic tribes (who destroyed old Rome) also destroyed New Rome after 7 centuries. In the end they destroy them even more. They called them Byzantines (neither Greek nor Roman). History is written by the winners.
Liutprand is a master of diss tracks
Thank youuuu!!!
Next up for future ideas as vids in mind please K&G... What did the Arabs + Persians, Slavs + Vikings, Normans + Turks, Crusaders + Indians, Chinese and later Mongols think about the Eastern Romans & Empire?
Maybe even... what do modern people now think about the Eastern Romans & Empire... a great vid to make about how we as modern peoples & societies in later centuries thought about, on how it was once considered post Ottoman conquest just as an offset of the Greek Empire, to now being accepted as a continuation of the Roman empire during the dark & medieval middle ages... and how the internet allowed us all to appreciate it more in the history now more more accessible for all of us to learn in reading. 😊
This would be epic... hope you enjoyed these ideas as my gift for you in later making. 😎😉
Good video thanks
nice, I hope we get more Byzantine stuff
Amazingly informative video❤❤
One word.
GREEK
wow, that Liluprand sounds like a real barrel of fun.
He actually did had great sense of humor.
Love Byzantine / Eastern Roman / Medieval Balkan/Greek history. Not everyone was in a monastery as the popular opinion says
Lovely video
While I’m Anglo my Germanic ancestors would be quite disappointed that I eat more like a Mediterranean person.
Tus ancestros germánicos no sabrían ni escribir
@@felipeurrea3638 Lo harían pero en alemán. También los británicos tendrían gracias a los romanos.
I mean, they'd consider most people today - Anglo or not - as effeminate softies given the comforts and lifestyles ("you don't know how to murder people and plow the fields at the age of 22? TF have you been doing??") modern advanced countries have.
no offence bu germanic diet is protein rich and healthy
@@groundzero5708 Nah. Mediterranean is better. Because you can overdo protein. And lighter meat is better than heavier meat. Olive oil is better than butter. Goat cheese is better than cow cheese. Etc etc
“Greeks were generally the largest and most influential ethnic group in both Anatolia and the Byzantine Empire, especially from the Hellenistic period onward.
By the time of the Byzantine Empire, Greeks were the predominant ethnic group in the urban and administrative centers, particularly in Constantinople and other key cities. Greek became the official language in the empire under Emperor Heraclius in the 7th century. This cemented the cultural dominance of Greek-speaking populations, especially in Asia Minor (Anatolia), which was a vital part of the empire. Many influential figures, such as Byzantine Emperors and Military Commanders, came from Greek-speaking regions”.
Arnold J. Toynbee, “A Study of History”.
The HRE and medieval Europe in general could never rival the Eastern Roman Empire both militarily and culturally. But after the east fell so died with Glory of Rome and the civilization that existed, HRE was never a true continuation of the western Roman Empire.
Seethe, Greek. Your Byzantium was a LARP
But the Lombards would later kick the East-Romans out of Italy, Charlemagne would succesfully reuinted the Christian West under his reign. With the development of Gothic architecture, the West had become (Culturally) completely independent from Constantinople.
OMG love these videos on the Byzantines.
In the debate over the sack of Constantinople, it is crucial to acknowledge the atrocities committed during the massacre of the Latins and the Angelos affair. The blame for the sack cannot be placed solely on one side. The responsibility also lies with Alexios V Doukas and both parties involved must share the burden of guilt.
He did mention the massacre of the Latins. What he did not mention is the insolence of the Latins that lead to their massacre. They had become, after being given these trading privileges, increasingly dismissive and insulting to the Empire and the Emperor. The massacre wasn't unprovoked (although a wholesale massacre ofc wasn't justified...), the Italians were literally causing havoc in the city and the Imperial forces couldn't contain them (burning each other's quarters, raping, murdering people, mocking the Emperor publicly etc).
The Angelos affair should've been mentioned though. The sack happened after a series of events (and in Angelos's case, extremely incompetent leadership), it wasn't simply that the Latins invaded the city to exact revenge.
@@Manuel-qu3tc I wasn't referring to the video but in general. People only know about the Sack but not the long series of events leading to it. And about the Italians, it was the the emperor Alexios I Komnenos that granted privileges to the Republic of Venice for strategic, economic and diplomatic reasons. He sought military support, boosting the empire's economy and strengthening its international relations and saw the aid of the Italians as a necessity and they really aided the Romans, one example is against Roger.
@@vitorpereira9515 I literally said that the Latins after being granted these trading privileges, tried to wreck havoc on the Empire - Ofc Alexios granted them but the Genoese, the Pisans, and the Venetians were literally killing each other (and the Romans) in Constantinople. They were also mocking the Emperor and the Empire publicly, abusing their privileges and position.
@@Manuel-qu3tc Romans have been killing each other since their founding. How many emperors were killed at the hands of their own countrymen?
The sack of Thessalonica and the massacre of its population by the Kingdom of Sicily should also be mentioned. It worsen the relationship between the Empire and the West a lot.
Nice I just happen to be doing a Byzantium run in ck3
The recent update made the mongols a little bit too powerful. 3 out of my 5 last playthroughs they always got vassalized by mongols.
I am waiting for the persia flavor pack to start playing as the Seljuks too
@@ImKarl I only play the early start dates so ill get bored and start over before the Mongols show up. Also I have so many mods that change how the game plays.
I'd wish Eastern Roman Empire still exist today...
Why only the eastern part? Wish for the whole Empire. The Roman Empire of Trajan in 117.
@@Anders_Lundcringe roman empire vs based Makedonian Empire
@@chezgomitSo based that it collapsed when Alexander died. Don't get me wrong, Alexander and his conquest were great, especially given how young Alexander was but the empire died with its founder. The Roman Empire lasted far longer than Augustus.
@@Anders_Lund the eastern roman empire had last because they found in the east a foundation ready to continue the empire after the fatherland latium of rome had fell to the germans , this foundation was a solid population Greek or hellenized that was spread from Hellenic peninsula to Caucasus uper India levand northern africa and Bactria , these homogenous population was there for more than thousand years at the time of the Hellenistic period, that was the base for the eastern roman empire to survive for more than thousan years , so maybe the crown of rome had settle in the Constantinople , but after the fatherland italium latium fell the east was the revival of the Macedonian empire at least culturally....thats why eastern romans had speaking greek , and Greek was the official language of the empire ,because the majority of the people in the east were greek or hellenized people
Too many civil wars, can't stand on its own.
2:10 i swear i thought he was about to read an ad for a VPN service
Now I wonder when did the northern part of Italy switched back to a more Mediterranean cuisine. Or do they still prefer eggs, butter and meat in Lombardy nowadays to olive oil, garlic and onions?
Italian cuisine is very regional, with lot of different dishes depending on the area that you visit. Olive oil was always used all over Italy (Liutprand was part of the small Lombard population, that had different customs from the rest of the Italians) but the south and the centre tend to use more of it for the simple reason that olive trees find a perfect climate from Sicily to Tuscany. Butter too is used all over Italy but the in the north they still use more of it, generally speaking the local diet was of course more influenced by the local climate and avaiable products in the past.
In the video they were discussing the life of a Germanic caste, not representative of the culture of Northern Italy. Latin culture hadn't left Italy. After all, Italy remains at the centre of what was the Roman Empire and was its actual homeland, unlike the colonies.
The diet has never switched to a more Mediterranean one. It has never been for the most part except the coastlines of Liguria.
They have never been Mediterraneans. They're Germanic people. Italy needs to be split in half tbh. The only way to have peace.
@@Goldenskies__ Northern Italians have never been a Germanic people though, since the Celts were routed or the few remaining assimilated. We’re talking more than 2000 years ago.
3:59 That's one of the most insanely brutal takedowns I've ever heard
Like dude, how do you even recover or come back from that?
Probably: "Sure. I'm dumpy and hairy. And I am THE Roman Emperor. Who were you again?"
And of course, the guy wrote that in his report back to his boss, he did not drop it to the Emperor's face. That would have been dumb, and very painfully terminal.
@@chedelirio6984 He couldn't do anything. By this point, the continued existance of Byzantium relied on Western support.
Now we need the perspective how eastern romans (Greeks ) see barbarians of holy roman empire
I can't tell you how SOUTHERN ITALIANS see them. A bunch of soulless Barbarians with s/itty food... or at least that's how we still see them.
"Barbarians". Trier is older than Rome.