What True Size topics should we cover next? 📲 Install Raid for Free Mobile and PC: pl.go-ga.me/75jyydya and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion Drake 🔥 Use the Promo Code JTSKIN before October 7th to get both the Epic Champion Stag Knight and Gilded Glider Custom Skin!
History Channel should be called Reality TV Channel. It has almost nothing to do with history and the history is does cover is polluted with modern-day ideology.
Like I am certain that I have mentioned before after studying roman military history for so many years (40 plus) I've been searching for a documentary with this much detail on the composition and deployment of a full roman army. I just can't thank you enough for the tremendous effort. I will rewatch this to the end of my time!
Can you please give some suggestions for books? It would be greatly appreciated. Just finished up with Legions of Rome by Stephen Dando-Collins. Excellent book.
Me too. I want to to add something to my mustread list. This subject is not so familiar to me. I have read Adrian Goldsworthys book "Caesar, Life of a Colossus" ..highly recommend
It's so much different being on the battlefield with the fog of war, then sitting in a chair with the map of the battle in your hands with 2000 years of hindsight
Previously I was a logistics officer 90A in the US Army. The big snake and little snakes of mass movement is replicable in how we plan large convoy operations. Obviously everything is mechanized but movements are organized into convoy, serial, and "chalks" or segments. I moved weapons and Soldiers this way for years.
It's one of those things that helps you understand many things you see in media as a civilian. Generation Kill, for one, is completely different when you watch it knowing how they're actually moving, or where they're going.
I saw the Division Recon guys often during the "march up" during OIF 1. They were reckless clowns and were extremely lucky the Iraqi forces were incompetent.
When you see it visualized like this, it becomes far easier to comprehend how Arminius' Germanians were able to completely annihilate Varus' legions on the march.
@Quin-du6gl You've asserted a claim, that you presumably expect others to accept as fact. If you have nothing to hide, and the facts are truly what you say they are, then provide a source.
@@Quin-du6gl You made a claim that contradicts the expert consensus. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you. Since you are so reluctant to provide your evidence, I assume then that you have none.
If the Total War Series wanted to make a historical game. They should take notes on topics like these. There is so much interesting, historical content that can be added to a game for making a historical game more immersive. With good design it can be extremely fun as well. Just like Rome Total War was for its time when it released.
They just wanted to make money. People wanted an arcade experience and have little historical knowledge. That's why Rome's TW put the egyptians of the bronze age. Too much realism isn't fun, unless you are a hard core fan, then it's a blessing.
@@hanskrieger4299I agree. But Total War has been going a bit stale in the last decade. I'm just saying that they should spice things up with some realism. Total War Warhammer used fantasy to the fullest. The historical games could use realism to make themselves stand out from the fantasy games.
I think a lot of game devs worry that adding mechanics that aren't action focused like logistics will bore players but honestly some of the most fun I've ever had were in war games that had some sort of logistics focus like Factorio and the Anno series. It felt so much more satisfying to use a weapon in those games when you first had to go through all the struggles of setting up production lines and then supplying it. Like automating the production and supply for railway artillery and having an automated system for creating bases in Factorio makes the experience of using them feel so much better, being able to finally rain down doom on anyone at the click of a button is awesome. And in Anno 1800 finally putting your first ironclad into the water and sending it after the pirates is fucking awesome after they've been harassing your supply lines for the entire game and you having to send escorts everywhere and build harbor defenses.
Massive respect for putting the credits of your sources in the video so early. I wish more channels did this! Make this a movement for more TH-cam history channels to do this!
@@CruWiTyeah the Mongols were pretty impressive purely on the battle and logistical front. Rome’s toughest were Greeks, Persia and Carthage, but the Mongols faced off against the Chinese, Japanese, Ancient Indians, Arabs, early Russians (the Kievan Rus), Hungary and Poland. Adapting your army for all sorts of alien technologies, landscapes and fighting tactics right across the Eurasian continent is insane.
I mean the people weren't stupid. Keep in mind that many of these techniques were developed of centuries with many people devoting their entire lives to the military.
Rome was unparalleled with anyone else. Macedon??? Really??? They just had a 20 years period with Alexander and that is all. Rome persisted as world power for 600 years.
A Roman "pace" was twice the length you mentioned. Romans measured it from the heel of one foot to the heel of where that same foot falls after a complete step. This is a "double-pace" in modern parlance.
Absolutely love the thorough credits section! It's things like that which let you know a creator is good an honest, and speaks to a level of consideration and appreciation of detail in the documentary that's about to follow.
I walked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Maine, 2200 miles. The average person cannot maintain 20 miles/day in that terrain. Maybe on a road that would be possible. As I walked the AT, I often thought about how fast ancient armies could have moved. Portions of the Appalachian Trail are flat or hilly and are not mountains. I'm well above average in physical fitness and I can comfortably do 20 miles/day in rough terrain for about a week before I need to slow down. If I pushed the pace I would be happy with 3 miles per hour on trail. On a road, at a solid walking pace, with a pack, I would do 4-5 miles per hour. I think moving an army through normal terrain without roads you could probably move about 12-15 miles per day. I'm sure they followed valleys and rivers to move the fastest they could, avoiding going over mountains or through rough terrain. I was also a Captain in the US Army and marching a company of 100 men long distances you have to remember that you move as fast as your slowest man. If you had to move 100 miles I would plan for 10 days. This is with modern equipment, modern boots, modern clothing and packs. In ancient times I imagine you'd have serious problems supplying enough footwear. On the AT I went through 5 pairs of modern trail running shoes. The heavier you are the more shoes you go through. It's astonishing what these roman armies had to go through.
@patrickmcelroy5341 I've got a similar background and agree. The one thing I thought about this video was these guys were in the field all the time. They must have gotten very good at certain reoccurring issues. Like traffic jams, the slinky effect, making a wrong turn (or avoiding it), sending scouts out, heat casualties, etc. I would have loved to see how they navigated and communicated without the technology we enjoy today.
Wow 20 miles a day for a week is insane! I backpack too but can only do 15 miles in rough terrain for a week max. Probably closer to 6 days. The blisters sore muscles back joints knees feet toes take me days to heal. Those poor romans wearing cork sandals or whatever with metal gear would have been an astonishing feat. Heard some figures it was about 60+ lbs.
@@AldousHuxley7 You get "trail legs" after about a month of walking. Then you don't get blisters and soreness goes away. But for the first month every morning you walk around camp like Big Foot raped you during the night.
I am a tour guide, so I usually do around 10 miles per day during the high season in my country (roughly 5 months). That includes all the slow pacing and loud talking during short stops (not exactly a break to rest for me). I never learned to drive and use a bus only every second day, so I rarely move not on my own feet. I was really surprised that the oldest guests usually have much more stamina than young people, who get tired after an hour and start whining. The elderly can do 2 - 3 hours without any problem and I had quite a few 80 - 90 year olds (both men and women) who nearly outdid me with continuous 6 hour tours without a lunch break. I found it strange that US soldier groups whom I was guiding around gave up pretty early. I asked them once "How come you get tired of walking so fast - you do not even have any gear on you ?" The answer was "They drive us around all the time, we barely walk". This might be a warning sign for the future...
@@kristupassepkus1073 Where are you doing these tours? Certain military installations have certain units that may or may not be mounted. The Army has Heavy Brigades, Light Brigades, and Stryker Brigades. So if you are near Ft Hood, TX or Ft Carson, Co, then yes those are Heavy Brigade areas so they mostly ride around on vehicles. Even the infantry in Heavy Brigades ride on Bradleys. In Stryker Brigades like at Ft Lewis, WA or Scoffield Barracks, HI those soldiers mostly ride on Stryker vehicles, even the infantry. But if you are near Ft Bragg or Ft Drum or Ft Campbell then those are Light Brigades so there are more light infantry. Ground pounders. They do more walking. Although those infantry units also have trucks and HMMWVs. They still train a lot on foot. I was in Heavy Brigades my entire time in service but I just like to hike/walk so I had no problem on the Appalachian trail. I loved it. The first month or so everyone I saw, including the most in-shape hikers, were sore. Because you are hiking every single day from sun up to sun down. It takes a while for your body to adjust to that. I did build up to the point where I could physically do 20 miles per day pretty consistently. But after about a week you just want to slow down. You can't really enjoy the beauty of the trail if you are just pushing miles all day. The Romans were probably doing much less just because the weight of the equipment and the quality of the shoes aren't as good as modern shoes.
For a fun read, i recommend Puck of Pooks Hill by Rudyard Kipling. Theres a few chapters about a young Roman centurion, stationed on Hadrian’s wall. There are several pages describing the march of a small reinforcing company going to the Wall. “A legions pace is altogether different. It is a long slow stride that never varies from sunrise to sunset. “Rome’s race - Rome’s pace,” as the proverb says. Twenty-four miles in eight hours, neither more nor less. Head and spear up, shield on your back, cuirass-collar open one hands breadth - and that’s how you take the eagles through Britain.”
This made my day!! I was feeling sluggish and lethargic - watching the Roman Army did on the regular during campaigns was the inspiration I needed~ Thank you for the consistent and informative content, Invicta~!! Cheers~!!
Bravo, very well done. The choice of topic, the clarity of the info, the visual support, the aesthetics of the art, music and narration... This is one of your best so far. Thank you so much.
First of all, that’s absolutely insane that the scouts reach the second camp before the first is even emptied. Second of all, it must feel like you make no ground at all, so infuriating! Amazing video! I love your visuals
It boggles me how just about every large ancient army had to do a simular thing to this. Just think that the armies of the Parthains, sassanids, the ancient indians, and ancient Chinese etc. had all had to do something like this before they could face each other in battle. You could imagine that medevial crusader armies were just as complex.
It makes you realize the benefit and absolute nightmare that is to face a mounted horde! Theyre all mounted and carry everything there is to carry on horses and mules. Compared to a 'regular' army, they must be soo much easier to maneuver around the place. They obviously had downsides too, but in general, its easier to harass the enemy into submission while costing you very little in the process.
@@dan_the_dj I’m sure when manoeuvring, an entirely mounted army will be a bit less tricky, but staying put for a while? Infantry can be supplied by riders and foragers for a good long while, but an army of 240 000 men means probably around half a million to a million horses. Which means if you stay anywhere for a few days, you’ll have to ride for a long while out of camp to find any grass. It’s a lot easier to transport human food than the copious volumes of grass that horses consume. And many small, spread-out bands are a lot more vulnerable, especially if the enemy is also made up of mounted troops.
Crusader armies were a bit more of a motley assortment that got where they wanted to through luck or an enormous amount of help from the Romans who just wanted them out of their lands. You can see why they thought God was on their side because it's genuinely a miracle that they ever got anywhere, and most of the time they didn't.
I just don't have words. That answered questions I didn't even know I had. Wow! That was awesome. As a former grunt, you made me feel like I was marching...2000 years ago. Dang!
That would've been incredible to see in person. If they ever did a reenactment of a full scale march, I'd join up in a heartbeat. Probably a pipe dream though, I can't even imagine how difficult it would be to; a: Get that many dedicated people b: Find a suitable modern trail that would be long enough to sustain that many people
It could be done on country roads somewhere...but have you ever taken part in a demonstration march for a cause? This will give you a sense of this movement of a mass of people. I was part of a group of a few thousand people that marched up onto dartmoor, England to protest a local landowner wishing to revoke rights to roam and camp on historically open (permissively) land. Its was very interesting indeed to see that, and how we all amassed at the end on the moor was great!
This was damn good. Do more episodes of true size in a more visual way, it looks like a real documentary. Also, the Romans were very very efficient. Truly smart empire. Note: Also please move forward with this voice over. He is the best. Get some cool background music for more context. If it's roman military topic, play a roman military song in the background.
Incredible, I always wondered HOW they did ! And the Napoleon army too, with all the cannons etc, how the scouts really worked together before the invention of the telephone !
Horseback messengers with notes. A lot of people think the linear battle of that time (shoulder-to-shoulder firing lines advancing slowly at one another) was idiotic but historians point out it was necessary to maintain communication between units. All you had to do was get the message to the commander and it would be passed through the lines man to man. Can't really do that if your units are spread out into pockets like we see in later wars with radio.
I think knowing Napoleon's love of bureaucracy there are probably precise treatise on both the method and make up of his forces Thinking about it Rome used horns, flags and mirrors for comms much faster than horses or other information.
In the marines, we do max like 20-25k at a pretty good pace. Even then, we have people that fallout or get injured. It’s hard to maintain the formation. I wonder how the Roman’s carried all that equipment for weeks on end marching like that, maintaining their formation
well you guys carry about 60 pounds right? i wonder how many the romans would carry with their shield armor and 2 javelins including what ever else theyd have id wanna say maybe a little lighter?
th-cam.com/video/f_fpOUQcAac/w-d-xo.htmlsi=U9exeQZMc3gGtpUY Great video that explains how it was possible (i.e. : the main explanation was an insane physical shape)
@@markalvarado4450 One part about the Marian reforms is that the soldiers carried more of their own stuff to have a less unwieldy baggage train. So depends on the period. So 50-60 pounds is likely.
This is a very comprehensive video. Really shows the careful planning and coordination required to move this massive swath of human beings safely and orderly from one place to another and across all terrain. The grandness of a Roman army on the march must have been a truly awesome and fearful thing to behold.
Imagine marching all day and then arriving at pre determined "clearing". With your 3,000 fellow soldier surveyors chopping all the trees down for the perimeter and buffer zone before clearing the interior while the next group of 3,000 soldiers came right after you digging the huge ditches and while they dig your team delimb, sharpens and drives the felled trees and builds the 15 or 18 foot ramparts all around the new camp. My brain is abolutely amazed! But you can move mountains when you have 10,000 soldiers all working together before the main army arrives! Great video on the sheer scale of a Roman on the march.
What a nice video, so informative. I have allways wonder why soldiers only moved 20-30 km per day in roman times and later. Regarding a army as a "snake" was pure perfect. I love history, and more i learn about it, more i understand how little i actuall know..
I’m so glad they list so nicely the sources of their research and the possible mistakes in talking about this topic. It’s a part that always gets extra credits for me
Now that was the most intuitive explanation video I've ever seen. I'm sure even a toddler can understand such a complex process, just by the details and examples you gave.
As an educator, videos like these are a priceless resource for students, giving them a tangible, easy to understand way to grasp the concept of empire. Add to this the mind-blowing fact that they did this speaking Latin and using Roman Numerals (see Eddie Izzard 😎). Much respect and appreciation to you, your team, and your Patrons!💜✊
What really strikes me is how they managed to find a proper site to camp every day. It takes a massive clearing to host such a population for the night. Was their route and camp sites mapped beforehand? I'm sure that was the case for provinces close to Rome, but what happened when they ventured for months into barbarian territories, with no roads and little knowledge of the landscape?
The whole camp creation and management is hard to grasp. Even if there are 10,000 men to build a camp, there are too many details to just "let the men figure it out". The area for the campers, the pasturage for the animals, sanitation and water availability is staggering. . . Laying out a marching camp had guide lines, but, a legion would have to deforest several Km on both sides of a march route, if timber palisades were needed. Plus fire wood for cooking. . . If you've ever been to a Habitat for Humanity site, 6 or 7 experts are trying to control 20-30 non experts. Truth be told, the 7 experts could do the job in 4 or 5 days, with less effort, than a 2 day/30 person event. I'm not denigrating H4H, but if you've ever been to one, it's a bit like herding cats. Now, multiply that by 2000.
OMG. I very rarely learn things that are truly new to me when it comes to the Roman Army. This is one of its amazing exceptions. What a work of art this video is. Thanks a lot, really.
Great video! The only thing I would point out is that it's highly unlikely a military unit the size of a legion would ever be able to maintain 100% of its nominal size (especially once a campaign started and men started dying off from disease and combat).
This type of movement may seem tedious and monotonous to some, but having a relatively predictable schedule for the average soldier in the field is good for morale. When a soldier knows when he'll be able to rest and eat he'll be able to better cope with the physical strain and mental boredom of the daily march. Also, breaking down and setting up camp (essentially a small fortified city) on a daily basis improves unit cohesiveness and coordination (which is absolutely vital for a successful army).
Brilliant. Although I have studied military history for many years this graphic display made clear what I could only imagine before. As a retired military officer I fully understand both the organization, effort, and comfortable monotony such movement entails. Again, well done.
One could indeed say that conditions in Teutoburg forest were less ideal than this, yes. In fact, I believe some people have used even stronger language in describing them.
John Masters' autobiography of his WWII service The Road Past Mandalay gives excellent descriptions of logistics, staff officer training and duties as well as the way everything can so easily come unraveled when another armed force is trying to do to you what you are trying to do to them!
Loved this video. I fell in lover with Rome and her armies when I took 4 years of Latin in high school. Looking at the true size of an legion, I wonder how much supply (food, fodder, water, etc...) was required for each soldier, cohort, and legion.
Great Video. Thank you for all of your research and thought. We still haven’t even broached the topic of food, feeding, medicine, latrines in camp, rest points, surgeons, water, feed for animals, repair of chariots and wagons, and building of each camp site (as the Romans on the march essentially built wooden and elevated walls and watch towers with ditches dug around the camp site - every single day). Amazing.
I have often wondered how the movement of an entire Roman Legionary army was choreographed, there is little wonder that, when the Romans faced off with an opponent they would, under any conceivable scenario, arrive fed, armed in all ways, and systematically prepared for any form of engagement, as so many defeated enemies of the Empire lived and died discovering.
Amazing stuff Invicta, really helps put this incredible history into perspective (or is it really even 'history' when you consider how things would be identical today if not for combustion engines). Love the content, please keep it up!
You should do a logistics video like this about what 1 bomber raid on Germany took to accomplish in WW2. From personnel, training, maintenance, arming & armament, planning targets, getting there & back, etc.
Great video! I’d love to see an equally detailed review of how the army was supplied on the march and in camp. Can’t imagine how much food and water they needed.
Hence the foragers. Every day, to hunt small game to supplement the animals they brought with them. But I think each camp location would have been chosen to include a source of water as well. I guess they were pretty good at it because they did this for hundreds of years.
Great job very well informed , The Roman army was very complex , the Swiss Army knife for example Was copied from the Roman multi tool , Galen was a great surgeon not to be equaled for 1800 years Mind blowing 🙏 Thank you Invicta.
Really gives a different perspective to "hitting an army while strung out on the march." Like obviously I understood the benefits of attacking while your enemy is unprepared, but this really shows how forces like that in Teutoburg Forest were able to completely isolate sections of the Roman column and destroy them in detail.
There must be many sprained ankles, torn ligaments and badly pulled muscles and other immobilising injuries on the march. I wonder what contingencies the column had for this. Perhaps putting them on carts or horses?
Just a pilum in the gluteus maximus will do the trick, don't you worry. Jokes aside about a spear in the arse, wagons for the injured stragglers must have been a thing, and a drop off beside the infirmary.
You just drop the column, the carts will catch up with you eventually. Now you are part of the Impedimenta, and will go where the mules go until reaching a new camp.
When I was in boot camp, we did regular 10 km marches. Like quite a few of my compatriots, I developed “shin splints,” a painful inflammation of the lower legs. The main cause on the marches were the weight of the combat boots we wore. I wonder if this was less of a problem for the ancient Roman soldiers, who wore sandals?
When I was a teen I drew an entire Roman legion on sheets of paper aide by side, one dot at a time, to get a sense of the sheer scale, based on Gary Brueggerman's writings. I printed it all out into a small book and still have it today. How amazing technology is these days bahaha, and how pleasing it is that that reference is still current today.
Nice work! Regarding pace, the rate you quote looks correct if marching on the flat. However, if there were significant elevation, progress would be slower. Naismith's rule - an extra 10 minutes for every 100 metres of ascent and of course, if in close formation, those following but still on the flat would be slowed down.
I'm in my military logistics arm, and I've always found it mind boggling how long ancient campaigns took and fascinating how they handled the logistics of war
hmmm that actually makes sense when you said the thing would be stretched 15 miles.. so when the first group arrived at the destination 15 miles away the last group would be just starting out.. that makes sense to call it a snake or like a slinky.. in 8 -12 hours the first group is leaving again and the last group hasnt arrived yet.. interesting.. like they sort of take over the ground theyre covering in shifts..
This was an absolutely fantastic video and I see myself qiute picky when it comes to history documentaries. The graphic and narrations was as good as always, but the way this topic was presented was the best thing. Lots of important details but they were all put in context. It seems as though under normal peacetime conditions, a larger army spent about 2 hours to break camp, 4 hours marching and 2 hours to build a capm. A full modern workday, but prior to breaking camp comes breakfast. Dinner came when the camp was established. I would like to know whether if the soldiers had lunch. Did they take breaks for toilet? How did they deal with wounded personell and animals? Also how did the conditions of the marching vary depending on the size of the armies and whether they marched during war or peace? Local foraging surelh couldn't bave been enough to supply the army in the long run. How were supplies transported from the home bases? A fantastic introduction but I have so many more quetstions.
europe is 5000 kilometres long in a straight line from Egypt to Britain at 20km a day that would be 250 days to march a legion from one end of the empire to another end. thats 8 months of marching so a legion could theoretically arrive within a year from egypt to britain (not counting the ship travel time)
@@InvictaHistoryHence why splitting the Med effectively broke the spine of the Roman Empire. While there was still movement, there was less and less as each half became it's own power zone.
*Furiously takes notes for DnD and Book lore* Also! I would LOVE seeing a much more complicated breakdown with camp followers and merchants that follow the army! Maybe also see a deployment phase too!
@@GAMER123GAMINGI didn't know this so I had to look it up myself. I guess at different points in a legions journey different merchants would join the camp followers to ply their wares. People would be selling food, wine, or whatever they had. After battles, they would be there to buy spoils (loot and slaves) at a discount. Was easier for someone to keep their coins safe on the way back home than to try to keep their gains from being stolen or lost.
@@GAMER123GAMINGnot only followed, but some would go ahead of it to buy supplies to the army - and because they were using the army's resources, those merchants would be, by necessity, extremely shrewd so they could buy on the cheap.
@@Jamhael1 Yes! Verily! Merchants and Camp Followers do exist in the Roman (and Medieval) War Columns as food and logistics are quite tricky if you only just forage and requisition your goods I believe that the army too request or purchase things for food, weapons and armour maintenance or acquisition, and building materials from local settlements
@@odd-ysseusdoesstuff6347 exactly - and, depending on the situation, villages and settlements in the path of the military would provide resources as demanded by senatorial decree, under the promisse of future compensation.
Absolutely terrific. Moving a large body of soldiers, animals, equipment, baggage, possibly siege artillery and other weapons… the analogy of the snake is very instructive.
Definitely fascinating. I spend a bit of time trying to learn more about Chinese history. It would be interesting to know how a similar Chinese force of that era handled their logistics. While a lot would be the same, I am sure there would be differences.
This was very informative and well presented , the snake visual was particularly helpful. I was also hoping for more information on how the legions were supplied , where and how livestock , weapons , food , bedding , uniforms and men were acquired. And how the supplies were compiled stored and shipped to legions in the field .
@mchlsndr @mchlsndr 3 years ago This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @jeremyprinzen5954 @jeremyprinzen5954 3 years ago A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply FlagArmada Productions · 1 reply @ZarakyeRunescapeShow @ZarakyeRunescapeShow 3 years ago Great work, buddy! :) 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @nomademc6548 @nomademc6548 3 years ago The best! I'm from brazil. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @mchlsndr @mchlsndr 3 years ago This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @jeremyprinzen5954 @jeremyprinzen5954 3 years ago A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply FlagArmada Productions · 1 reply @ZarakyeRunescapeShow @ZarakyeRunescapeShow 3 years ago Great work, buddy! :) 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @nomademc6548 @nomademc6548 3 years ago The best! I'm from brazil. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @mchlsndr @mchlsndr 3 years ago This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @jeremyprinzen5954 @jeremyprinzen5954 3 years ago A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply FlagArmada Productions · 1 reply @ZarakyeRunescapeShow @ZarakyeRunescapeShow 3 years ago Great work, buddy! :) 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @nomademc6548 @nomademc6548 3 years ago The best! I'm from brazil. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @mchlsndr @mchlsndr 3 years ago This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @jeremyprinzen5954 @jeremyprinzen5954 3 years ago A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply FlagArmada Productions · 1 reply @ZarakyeRunescapeShow @ZarakyeRunescapeShow 3 years ago Great work, buddy! :) 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply @nomademc6548 @nomademc6548 3 years ago The best! I'm from brazil. 1 FlagArmada Productions Reply
New subscriber here. I don't do it very often but this was amazing so I hit that button.. A wonderful insight into the logistics of an ancient army with great narration and amazing graphics. Just wow...and it's free. What an age we live in!
@@Tom_Quixote Nope I noticed it too. I mean some trees might have been this big, but I doubt that most would have reached that height, even though they must have been mostly primeval forests.
Not much has changed from the standard mk1 grunt. The Roman's even marched to cadence in a familiar pattern. Wouldn't be suprised if those cadences talked about the Roman equivalent of Jody and what he was doing to your woman.
This routine is older than Rome. The Neo Assyrians and Persians organized professional armies while Rome was just a village on the Tiber. The Chinese and Indians had very similar abilities to pull off insane logistics. Roman fanboys need to stop acting like Rome invented everything.
Excellent! This TH-cam content is higher quality and better researched than “proffesional’ channels on tv. I do have a few questions: 1) you did not cover much about logistics of daily functions for soldiers and animals. How iare toilet activities managed for a huge group 30-40,000 and innumerable animals within a confined camp without creating a health hazard? 2) did soldiers eat during the daily march or did they have to wait until the evening meal? 3) given the logistics and time required to build a new camp every day, were camps ever re-used? When travelling along major Roman roads, having a set of pre existing camps spaced out at daily march intervals could be helpful, maybe even troops to march further each day. Thanks againfor this fine work.
I would love a strategic game that took this into consideration and showed it. There are so many that have interesting C&C, but they dumb it down by subsuming the logistics behind the scenes. Something that would also include the camp followers and livestock/logistical lines. I'm someone who would love to deep dive this kind of game. You could even simplify it for general consumption by making commanders who will basically make it like other games, with the exception that you can opt to take command of these through the game settings.
I found that the game grand tactician civil war which is a American civil war game did this quite well you armies on the map aren't just one army it's divides into corps that you can move separately down different routes etc and have a supply system one for food, ammunition and condition of your troops so you have men who are injured, ill or if morale is low they deserted for campaigns you can build forts and supply depots and garrison them etc and this is for each corps which in battle are also divided into sub commanders if you turn on realistic mode have to stay in range of the general staff to receive orders and that they can be delayed. A very good game the ai is a bit funky sometimes
This video reminded me why I subscribed. Excellent work!! It's mind boggling to think the leader elements of the army would already be working on the new camp before the last had left the old camp.
Wow! Many thanks for the hard work and efforts to provide thoughtful and well explained and graphic details of the Roman army logistics. I can see some possible logistic topic suggestions - First, how the army built a new camp (walls and ditches) within less than one day. Did they bring the timber with them? Cut new trees? Both? Did each camp site have walls and ditches, especially if the legions had to march long distances, say from Italy to Britain, or Italy to Syria? Second, what about the procedure(s) where armies had to march across rivers/marshes? Did they have to send surveyors/engineers/soldiers several days in advance to build those structures, or stop at the river, build the structure, then continue the march? Overall, the sheer size, scale, calculations, and other logistics of 'moving a city' were just another impressive feature of the Roman culture which once again demonstrates the Mos Maiorum of Fides, Pietas, Religio, Cultus, Disciplina, Gravitas, Constantia, Virtus, Dignitas, Auctoritas. One more topic suggestion would be the logistics and how it might have contributed, or could have prevented, the Teutoburg Forest battle disaster. Again, well done!
I was taught in Command and Staff College that the average speed of a modern infantry unit on decent roads is 2.5 miles per hour. You can assume a march of 8 hours and 20 miles per day without wearing out the troops, although every several days, you will have to give a rest day.
Gaul and Germania must've been the Vietnam for the Romans, tribesmen in the forest distracting the front of the column and a bigger force attacking the middle to separate the ends and the rest plundering the baggage in the rear. It just goes to show how competent a leader Caesar was as he faced this exact scenario several times everywhere he went throughout Gaul, Germania, and Britain. One specific example I recall from Historia Civillis was a close call, Caesar rallied the vanguard to hold the enemy back until the scouts and cavalry returned to harass and threaten their own counter encirclement actually fighting hand to hand himself. The Gauls realized the situation was untenable as they had lost the initiative and more of the legion would reinforce as time went on until they themselves would be outnumbered. The Gauls gave up and withdrew to fight another day but the men already raiding the baggage either in because of greed or the chaos of battle didn't hear their kinsmens call to disengage and were vengefully set upon by the Roman rearguard and dispatched. Caesar displayed a patient ability to keep calm in unfavorable circumstances and also his even more valuable skill of spotting talent when picking equally competent sub commanders which saved the army's ass on many occasions such as this.
And lets not forget the Picts, those damn Smurfs from hell... "YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAN! YOU WEREN'T THERE! YOU DIDN'T SEE WHAT I SAW! BLUE DEMONS, NAKED, COMING FROM THE WOODS, SCREAMING THEIR HORRID WARCRY.... La-la-lalala-la-lala-lala..."
@@Jamhael1 the highlands were the Afghan mountains for the Romans, that and the Persians in the Caucasus whenever they didn't follow the Armenians and Georgians advice
What True Size topics should we cover next? 📲 Install Raid for Free Mobile and PC: pl.go-ga.me/75jyydya and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion Drake 🔥 Use the Promo Code JTSKIN before October 7th to get both the Epic Champion Stag Knight and Gilded Glider Custom Skin!
I was wondering if there are enough sources to do one on early Chinese armies, such as those advised on in Art of War or the Spring and Autumn period?
napoleonic corp true size would be insane
Yes.
Thank you.
what happened to the empty camps ?
A comparison pre and after Marius Reforms would be interesting.
It´s insane to me that independent TH-camrs have picked up the mantle abandoned by multimillion dollar history channels. Kudos to you all.
Unfortunately, the algorithm is forsaking them. This probably needs 500k-1 million views to recoup the expense.
@@westrimThey’re playing the long game. They’re better quality than Kurzgesagt, and given enough time, will pass them in subscribers.
@@westrim Sold out to raid shadow legends so money is not an issue
History Channel should be called Reality TV Channel. It has almost nothing to do with history and the history is does cover is polluted with modern-day ideology.
I wouldn’t be surprised if these dudes used to be employed by such companies but got let to go to make room for ancient aliens
Like I am certain that I have mentioned before after studying roman military history for so many years (40 plus) I've been searching for a documentary with this much detail on the composition and deployment of a full roman army.
I just can't thank you enough for the tremendous effort.
I will rewatch this to the end of my time!
Can you please give some suggestions for books? It would be greatly appreciated. Just finished up with Legions of Rome by Stephen Dando-Collins. Excellent book.
I leave comment here, for waiting the answer and then collecting the book
I comment too, for the list of books
Hell yeah dude, exactly what I’ve been itching for. For a long time!
Me too. I want to to add something to my mustread list. This subject is not so familiar to me. I have read Adrian Goldsworthys book "Caesar, Life of a Colossus" ..highly recommend
Beautifully done. I think details like this really help armchair generals realize why "I would have just had my men......" is just silly.
I think people like that are not much affected by things like facts or reality
It's so much different being on the battlefield with the fog of war, then sitting in a chair with the map of the battle in your hands with 2000 years of hindsight
Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk logistics. Adults talk politics.
Hoi4/eu4/ck3 players when asked to organize the movement of a single division.
@@anathardayaldar never talk politics
I cant stop thinking about Rome! Somebody help me!
Mate, I’m exactly the same😂
Play some Total war - Rome and civilize everything and you are healed.
Yeah me neither
*sweating intensifies as I work on another weekly documentary
Saeve me! Viribus. Unitis. Semper Fidelis! Summus filli lupae capitolinae! Pro focis et patria, sic itur ad astra! 💫
Previously I was a logistics officer 90A in the US Army. The big snake and little snakes of mass movement is replicable in how we plan large convoy operations. Obviously everything is mechanized but movements are organized into convoy, serial, and "chalks" or segments. I moved weapons and Soldiers this way for years.
It's one of those things that helps you understand many things you see in media as a civilian. Generation Kill, for one, is completely different when you watch it knowing how they're actually moving, or where they're going.
@@Astraben I felt it more when they lost that supply truck in Generation Kill.
I saw the Division Recon guys often during the "march up" during OIF 1. They were reckless clowns and were extremely lucky the Iraqi forces were incompetent.
War is won by logistics.
the military academies information and tactics go back as far as rome and more.. it all evolved from there and was passed down from leader to leader..
When you see it visualized like this, it becomes far easier to comprehend how Arminius' Germanians were able to completely annihilate Varus' legions on the march.
With the knowledge they must've had from being in the auxiliaries they figured out the weaknesses of this snake and lead it into a trap
@@Quin-du6gl Citation?
@@Quin-du6gl And your source?
@Quin-du6gl You've asserted a claim, that you presumably expect others to accept as fact. If you have nothing to hide, and the facts are truly what you say they are, then provide a source.
@@Quin-du6gl You made a claim that contradicts the expert consensus. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you. Since you are so reluctant to provide your evidence, I assume then that you have none.
If the Total War Series wanted to make a historical game. They should take notes on topics like these. There is so much interesting, historical content that can be added to a game for making a historical game more immersive. With good design it can be extremely fun as well. Just like Rome Total War was for its time when it released.
They just wanted to make money.
People wanted an arcade experience and have little historical knowledge. That's why Rome's TW put the egyptians of the bronze age.
Too much realism isn't fun, unless you are a hard core fan, then it's a blessing.
@@hanskrieger4299I agree. But Total War has been going a bit stale in the last decade. I'm just saying that they should spice things up with some realism.
Total War Warhammer used fantasy to the fullest. The historical games could use realism to make themselves stand out from the fantasy games.
I think a lot of game devs worry that adding mechanics that aren't action focused like logistics will bore players but honestly some of the most fun I've ever had were in war games that had some sort of logistics focus like Factorio and the Anno series. It felt so much more satisfying to use a weapon in those games when you first had to go through all the struggles of setting up production lines and then supplying it. Like automating the production and supply for railway artillery and having an automated system for creating bases in Factorio makes the experience of using them feel so much better, being able to finally rain down doom on anyone at the click of a button is awesome. And in Anno 1800 finally putting your first ironclad into the water and sending it after the pirates is fucking awesome after they've been harassing your supply lines for the entire game and you having to send escorts everywhere and build harbor defenses.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein It's literally the same game for the last 20 years, with more detailed models.
Invicta deserves to be a consultant to make a real Total War game
It is crazy how large these armies were and how underrepresented they are in movies.
Massive respect for putting the credits of your sources in the video so early. I wish more channels did this! Make this a movement for more TH-cam history channels to do this!
It's crazy that content like this exists for us to enjoy for free. What at time to be alive. Thank you for making this
th-cam.com/video/hmcFH0cyavg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=FlagArmadaProductions
It's free, but if we contributed it would/ could be even better!
The logistical capabilities of ancient people is mind-blowing.
Persia, Macedon, Rome...the feats these groups pulled off are almost unbelievable.
The nations you mentioned are almost nothing compared to the logistical capacities of the Huns, Turks and Mongols.
@@CruWiTyeah the Mongols were pretty impressive purely on the battle and logistical front. Rome’s toughest were Greeks, Persia and Carthage, but the Mongols faced off against the Chinese, Japanese, Ancient Indians, Arabs, early Russians (the Kievan Rus), Hungary and Poland.
Adapting your army for all sorts of alien technologies, landscapes and fighting tactics right across the Eurasian continent is insane.
@@jfprizzy exactly!
I mean the people weren't stupid. Keep in mind that many of these techniques were developed of centuries with many people devoting their entire lives to the military.
Rome was unparalleled with anyone else.
Macedon??? Really???
They just had a 20 years period with Alexander and that is all.
Rome persisted as world power for 600 years.
This is literally THE topic I've wanted to see covered on the Roman Legion and I'm happy to see it from Invicta!
A Roman "pace" was twice the length you mentioned. Romans measured it from the heel of one foot to the heel of where that same foot falls after a complete step. This is a "double-pace" in modern parlance.
Absolutely love the thorough credits section! It's things like that which let you know a creator is good an honest, and speaks to a level of consideration and appreciation of detail in the documentary that's about to follow.
Being ex-army I find this absolutely riveting....more of this kind of thing please
I walked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Maine, 2200 miles. The average person cannot maintain 20 miles/day in that terrain. Maybe on a road that would be possible. As I walked the AT, I often thought about how fast ancient armies could have moved. Portions of the Appalachian Trail are flat or hilly and are not mountains. I'm well above average in physical fitness and I can comfortably do 20 miles/day in rough terrain for about a week before I need to slow down. If I pushed the pace I would be happy with 3 miles per hour on trail. On a road, at a solid walking pace, with a pack, I would do 4-5 miles per hour. I think moving an army through normal terrain without roads you could probably move about 12-15 miles per day. I'm sure they followed valleys and rivers to move the fastest they could, avoiding going over mountains or through rough terrain. I was also a Captain in the US Army and marching a company of 100 men long distances you have to remember that you move as fast as your slowest man. If you had to move 100 miles I would plan for 10 days. This is with modern equipment, modern boots, modern clothing and packs. In ancient times I imagine you'd have serious problems supplying enough footwear. On the AT I went through 5 pairs of modern trail running shoes. The heavier you are the more shoes you go through. It's astonishing what these roman armies had to go through.
@patrickmcelroy5341 I've got a similar background and agree. The one thing I thought about this video was these guys were in the field all the time. They must have gotten very good at certain reoccurring issues. Like traffic jams, the slinky effect, making a wrong turn (or avoiding it), sending scouts out, heat casualties, etc. I would have loved to see how they navigated and communicated without the technology we enjoy today.
Wow 20 miles a day for a week is insane! I backpack too but can only do 15 miles in rough terrain for a week max. Probably closer to 6 days. The blisters sore muscles back joints knees feet toes take me days to heal. Those poor romans wearing cork sandals or whatever with metal gear would have been an astonishing feat. Heard some figures it was about 60+ lbs.
@@AldousHuxley7 You get "trail legs" after about a month of walking. Then you don't get blisters and soreness goes away. But for the first month every morning you walk around camp like Big Foot raped you during the night.
I am a tour guide, so I usually do around 10 miles per day during the high season in my country (roughly 5 months). That includes all the slow pacing and loud talking during short stops (not exactly a break to rest for me). I never learned to drive and use a bus only every second day, so I rarely move not on my own feet. I was really surprised that the oldest guests usually have much more stamina than young people, who get tired after an hour and start whining. The elderly can do 2 - 3 hours without any problem and I had quite a few 80 - 90 year olds (both men and women) who nearly outdid me with continuous 6 hour tours without a lunch break. I found it strange that US soldier groups whom I was guiding around gave up pretty early. I asked them once "How come you get tired of walking so fast - you do not even have any gear on you ?" The answer was "They drive us around all the time, we barely walk". This might be a warning sign for the future...
@@kristupassepkus1073 Where are you doing these tours? Certain military installations have certain units that may or may not be mounted. The Army has Heavy Brigades, Light Brigades, and Stryker Brigades. So if you are near Ft Hood, TX or Ft Carson, Co, then yes those are Heavy Brigade areas so they mostly ride around on vehicles. Even the infantry in Heavy Brigades ride on Bradleys. In Stryker Brigades like at Ft Lewis, WA or Scoffield Barracks, HI those soldiers mostly ride on Stryker vehicles, even the infantry. But if you are near Ft Bragg or Ft Drum or Ft Campbell then those are Light Brigades so there are more light infantry. Ground pounders. They do more walking. Although those infantry units also have trucks and HMMWVs. They still train a lot on foot.
I was in Heavy Brigades my entire time in service but I just like to hike/walk so I had no problem on the Appalachian trail. I loved it. The first month or so everyone I saw, including the most in-shape hikers, were sore. Because you are hiking every single day from sun up to sun down. It takes a while for your body to adjust to that. I did build up to the point where I could physically do 20 miles per day pretty consistently. But after about a week you just want to slow down. You can't really enjoy the beauty of the trail if you are just pushing miles all day. The Romans were probably doing much less just because the weight of the equipment and the quality of the shoes aren't as good as modern shoes.
For a fun read, i recommend Puck of Pooks Hill by Rudyard Kipling. Theres a few chapters about a young Roman centurion, stationed on Hadrian’s wall. There are several pages describing the march of a small reinforcing company going to the Wall. “A legions pace is altogether different. It is a long slow stride that never varies from sunrise to sunset. “Rome’s race - Rome’s pace,” as the proverb says. Twenty-four miles in eight hours, neither more nor less. Head and spear up, shield on your back, cuirass-collar open one hands breadth - and that’s how you take the eagles through Britain.”
Note the above quote is describing a small reinforcing company through friendly territory.
This made my day!! I was feeling sluggish and lethargic - watching the Roman Army did on the regular during campaigns was the inspiration I needed~ Thank you for the consistent and informative content, Invicta~!! Cheers~!!
Bravo, very well done. The choice of topic, the clarity of the info, the visual support, the aesthetics of the art, music and narration... This is one of your best so far. Thank you so much.
First of all, that’s absolutely insane that the scouts reach the second camp before the first is even emptied. Second of all, it must feel like you make no ground at all, so infuriating! Amazing video! I love your visuals
They probably learned that unprotected camps were one of the major factors in defeat.
Truly a masterful video. It's content like this that makes me think of the Roman Empire every single day.
It boggles me how just about every large ancient army had to do a simular thing to this. Just think that the armies of the Parthains, sassanids, the ancient indians, and ancient Chinese etc. had all had to do something like this before they could face each other in battle. You could imagine that medevial crusader armies were just as complex.
It makes you realize the benefit and absolute nightmare that is to face a mounted horde!
Theyre all mounted and carry everything there is to carry on horses and mules. Compared to a 'regular' army, they must be soo much easier to maneuver around the place.
They obviously had downsides too, but in general, its easier to harass the enemy into submission while costing you very little in the process.
@@dan_the_dj I’m sure when manoeuvring, an entirely mounted army will be a bit less tricky, but staying put for a while? Infantry can be supplied by riders and foragers for a good long while, but an army of 240 000 men means probably around half a million to a million horses. Which means if you stay anywhere for a few days, you’ll have to ride for a long while out of camp to find any grass. It’s a lot easier to transport human food than the copious volumes of grass that horses consume. And many small, spread-out bands are a lot more vulnerable, especially if the enemy is also made up of mounted troops.
Crusader armies were a bit more of a motley assortment that got where they wanted to through luck or an enormous amount of help from the Romans who just wanted them out of their lands. You can see why they thought God was on their side because it's genuinely a miracle that they ever got anywhere, and most of the time they didn't.
@@hedgehog3180 ...Romans? East romans, you mean? Byzanthines?
@@BoarhideGaming where did you get those numbers tho?
Seems vastly oversell on the number of men, but probably an undersell on the number of horses :D
I just don't have words. That answered questions I didn't even know I had. Wow! That was awesome. As a former grunt, you made me feel like I was marching...2000 years ago. Dang!
That would've been incredible to see in person. If they ever did a reenactment of a full scale march, I'd join up in a heartbeat. Probably a pipe dream though, I can't even imagine how difficult it would be to;
a: Get that many dedicated people
b: Find a suitable modern trail that would be long enough to sustain that many people
It could be done on country roads somewhere...but have you ever taken part in a demonstration march for a cause? This will give you a sense of this movement of a mass of people.
I was part of a group of a few thousand people that marched up onto dartmoor, England to protest a local landowner wishing to revoke rights to roam and camp on historically open (permissively) land.
Its was very interesting indeed to see that, and how we all amassed at the end on the moor was great!
@@winterroadspokenword4681 Did it stay a free campsite in the end?
One of the best and most complete videos about the Roman army.
Thank you for your great work.
This was damn good. Do more episodes of true size in a more visual way, it looks like a real documentary. Also, the Romans were very very efficient. Truly smart empire.
Note: Also please move forward with this voice over. He is the best. Get some cool background music for more context. If it's roman military topic, play a roman military song in the background.
Incredible, I always wondered HOW they did !
And the Napoleon army too, with all the cannons etc, how the scouts really worked together before the invention of the telephone !
Especially with Napoleon being a master of splitting his army into smaller corps for greater maneuverability ;)
Horseback messengers with notes. A lot of people think the linear battle of that time (shoulder-to-shoulder firing lines advancing slowly at one another) was idiotic but historians point out it was necessary to maintain communication between units. All you had to do was get the message to the commander and it would be passed through the lines man to man. Can't really do that if your units are spread out into pockets like we see in later wars with radio.
I think knowing Napoleon's love of bureaucracy there are probably precise treatise on both the method and make up of his forces
Thinking about it Rome used horns, flags and mirrors for comms much faster than horses or other information.
This blew my mind. Absolutely stunning. Thank you
In the marines, we do max like 20-25k at a pretty good pace. Even then, we have people that fallout or get injured. It’s hard to maintain the formation.
I wonder how the Roman’s carried all that equipment for weeks on end marching like that, maintaining their formation
The advantage the legionaries had was that sandals don't cause blisters. Or at least they cause less blisters than boots.
well you guys carry about 60 pounds right? i wonder how many the romans would carry with their shield armor and 2 javelins including what ever else theyd have id wanna say maybe a little lighter?
They could keep personals on the carts
th-cam.com/video/f_fpOUQcAac/w-d-xo.htmlsi=U9exeQZMc3gGtpUY
Great video that explains how it was possible (i.e. : the main explanation was an insane physical shape)
@@markalvarado4450 One part about the Marian reforms is that the soldiers carried more of their own stuff to have a less unwieldy baggage train. So depends on the period. So 50-60 pounds is likely.
Just right click where you wanna go bro
somebody get this man a promotion
No more moves, sir
equip my dude with Organizer trait on the left flank for that sweet +34% Army movement speed & Attrition penalty negation. Simple as.
This is a very comprehensive video. Really shows the careful planning and coordination required to move this massive swath of human beings safely and orderly from one place to another and across all terrain. The grandness of a Roman army on the march must have been a truly awesome and fearful thing to behold.
Imagine marching all day and then arriving at pre determined "clearing". With your 3,000 fellow soldier surveyors chopping all the trees down for the perimeter and buffer zone before clearing the interior while the next group of 3,000 soldiers came right after you digging the huge ditches and while they dig your team delimb, sharpens and drives the felled trees and builds the 15 or 18 foot ramparts all around the new camp. My brain is abolutely amazed! But you can move mountains when you have 10,000 soldiers all working together before the main army arrives! Great video on the sheer scale of a Roman on the march.
What a nice video, so informative. I have allways wonder why soldiers only moved 20-30 km per day in roman times and later. Regarding a army as a "snake" was pure perfect. I love history, and more i learn about it, more i understand how little i actuall know..
I’m so glad they list so nicely the sources of their research and the possible mistakes in talking about this topic. It’s a part that always gets extra credits for me
Now that was the most intuitive explanation video I've ever seen. I'm sure even a toddler can understand such a complex process, just by the details and examples you gave.
This felt strangely nostalgic
As an educator, videos like these are a priceless resource for students, giving them a tangible, easy to understand way to grasp the concept of empire.
Add to this the mind-blowing fact that they did this speaking Latin and using Roman Numerals (see Eddie Izzard 😎).
Much respect and appreciation to you, your team, and your Patrons!💜✊
I just found this channel earlier today but wow, the information, the organization, the provided sources, the ARTWORK is all more than admirable.
Fascinating. Their organizational skills were miraculous.
To understand that they did all this without radios and modern day communication is absolutely mind blowing!!!
What really strikes me is how they managed to find a proper site to camp every day. It takes a massive clearing to host such a population for the night. Was their route and camp sites mapped beforehand? I'm sure that was the case for provinces close to Rome, but what happened when they ventured for months into barbarian territories, with no roads and little knowledge of the landscape?
Im guessing they sent scouts ahead and even if they find somewhere slightly lacking, they could send some people to clear some trees?
The whole camp creation and management is hard to grasp. Even if there are 10,000 men to build a camp, there are too many details to just "let the men figure it out". The area for the campers, the pasturage for the animals, sanitation and water availability is staggering.
. .
Laying out a marching camp had guide lines, but, a legion would have to deforest several Km on both sides of a march route, if timber palisades were needed. Plus fire wood for cooking.
. .
If you've ever been to a Habitat for Humanity site, 6 or 7 experts are trying to control 20-30 non experts. Truth be told, the 7 experts could do the job in 4 or 5 days, with less effort, than a 2 day/30 person event. I'm not denigrating H4H, but if you've ever been to one, it's a bit like herding cats. Now, multiply that by 2000.
@@d_must4309 they very rarely entered barbarian territory after 117 ad
What an incredible feat of logistical planning!
The ability of our ancestors never ceases to amaze
OMG. I very rarely learn things that are truly new to me when it comes to the Roman Army. This is one of its amazing exceptions. What a work of art this video is. Thanks a lot, really.
Love these logistical videos where we get both the numbers and visualization to help give an intuitive sense of what is going on.
Makes you appreciate Caesar even more. He had many fights that were almost lost but the endless train of soldiers coming in helped win the day.
Great video! The only thing I would point out is that it's highly unlikely a military unit the size of a legion would ever be able to maintain 100% of its nominal size (especially once a campaign started and men started dying off from disease and combat).
Ive been waiting for about 30 years for this exact documentary. I've wanted to know this exact info but I've never found any. Thank you!
I think of the Roman Empire at least once a day. This is awesome.
This type of movement may seem tedious and monotonous to some, but having a relatively predictable schedule for the average soldier in the field is good for morale. When a soldier knows when he'll be able to rest and eat he'll be able to better cope with the physical strain and mental boredom of the daily march. Also, breaking down and setting up camp (essentially a small fortified city) on a daily basis improves unit cohesiveness and coordination (which is absolutely vital for a successful army).
Brilliant. Although I have studied military history for many years this graphic display made clear what I could only imagine before. As a retired military officer I fully understand both the organization, effort, and comfortable monotony such movement entails. Again, well done.
One could indeed say that conditions in Teutoburg forest were less ideal than this, yes. In fact, I believe some people have used even stronger language in describing them.
John Masters' autobiography of his WWII service The Road Past Mandalay gives excellent descriptions of logistics, staff officer training and duties as well as the way everything can so easily come unraveled when another armed force is trying to do to you what you are trying to do to them!
Loved this video. I fell in lover with Rome and her armies when I took 4 years of Latin in high school. Looking at the true size of an legion, I wonder how much supply (food, fodder, water, etc...) was required for each soldier, cohort, and legion.
Glad to see your videos finally gaining the attention they deserve! That was a weird few months.
Great Video. Thank you for all of your research and thought. We still haven’t even broached the topic of food, feeding, medicine, latrines in camp, rest points, surgeons, water, feed for animals, repair of chariots and wagons, and building of each camp site (as the Romans on the march essentially built wooden and elevated walls and watch towers with ditches dug around the camp site - every single day). Amazing.
I have often wondered how the movement of an entire Roman Legionary army was choreographed, there is little wonder that, when the Romans faced off with an opponent they would, under any conceivable scenario, arrive fed, armed in all ways, and systematically prepared for any form of engagement, as so many defeated enemies of the Empire lived and died discovering.
Wow, this is more informative and interesting than anything I have ever seen on satellite television. Bravo!
Amazing stuff Invicta, really helps put this incredible history into perspective (or is it really even 'history' when you consider how things would be identical today if not for combustion engines). Love the content, please keep it up!
You should do a logistics video like this about what 1 bomber raid on Germany took to accomplish in WW2. From personnel, training, maintenance, arming & armament, planning targets, getting there & back, etc.
Great video! I’d love to see an equally detailed review of how the army was supplied on the march and in camp. Can’t imagine how much food and water they needed.
Hence the foragers. Every day, to hunt small game to supplement the animals they brought with them. But I think each camp location would have been chosen to include a source of water as well. I guess they were pretty good at it because they did this for hundreds of years.
Great job very well informed , The Roman army was very complex , the Swiss Army knife for example
Was copied from the Roman multi tool , Galen was a great surgeon not to be equaled for 1800 years
Mind blowing 🙏 Thank you Invicta.
The effort and details of this video are so tremendous and it is all for free.
Really gives a different perspective to "hitting an army while strung out on the march." Like obviously I understood the benefits of attacking while your enemy is unprepared, but this really shows how forces like that in Teutoburg Forest were able to completely isolate sections of the Roman column and destroy them in detail.
Don’t forget those men destroyed their fort and had to build a new one when they stopped for the day. That cuts into March time as well.
they resued much of it
This has always been a concept that was hard for me to picture in my head. Thank you for making this!
There must be many sprained ankles, torn ligaments and badly pulled muscles and other immobilising injuries on the march. I wonder what contingencies the column had for this. Perhaps putting them on carts or horses?
Just a pilum in the gluteus maximus will do the trick, don't you worry.
Jokes aside about a spear in the arse, wagons for the injured stragglers must have been a thing, and a drop off beside the infirmary.
You just drop the column, the carts will catch up with you eventually. Now you are part of the Impedimenta, and will go where the mules go until reaching a new camp.
When I was in boot camp, we did regular 10 km marches. Like quite a few of my compatriots, I developed “shin splints,” a painful inflammation of the lower legs. The main cause on the marches were the weight of the combat boots we wore. I wonder if this was less of a problem for the ancient Roman soldiers, who wore sandals?
When I was a teen I drew an entire Roman legion on sheets of paper aide by side, one dot at a time, to get a sense of the sheer scale, based on Gary Brueggerman's writings. I printed it all out into a small book and still have it today. How amazing technology is these days bahaha, and how pleasing it is that that reference is still current today.
Nice work! Regarding pace, the rate you quote looks correct if marching on the flat. However, if there were significant elevation, progress would be slower. Naismith's rule - an extra 10 minutes for every 100 metres of ascent and of course, if in close formation, those following but still on the flat would be slowed down.
I'm in my military logistics arm, and I've always found it mind boggling how long ancient campaigns took and fascinating how they handled the logistics of war
hmmm that actually makes sense when you said the thing would be stretched 15 miles.. so when the first group arrived at the destination 15 miles away the last group would be just starting out.. that makes sense to call it a snake or like a slinky.. in 8 -12 hours the first group is leaving again and the last group hasnt arrived yet.. interesting.. like they sort of take over the ground theyre covering in shifts..
This was an absolutely fantastic video and I see myself qiute picky when it comes to history documentaries. The graphic and narrations was as good as always, but the way this topic was presented was the best thing. Lots of important details but they were all put in context.
It seems as though under normal peacetime conditions, a larger army spent about 2 hours to break camp, 4 hours marching and 2 hours to build a capm. A full modern workday, but prior to breaking camp comes breakfast. Dinner came when the camp was established.
I would like to know whether if the soldiers had lunch. Did they take breaks for toilet? How did they deal with wounded personell and animals? Also how did the conditions of the marching vary depending on the size of the armies and whether they marched during war or peace?
Local foraging surelh couldn't bave been enough to supply the army in the long run. How were supplies transported from the home bases?
A fantastic introduction but I have so many more quetstions.
I am in awe, because of the information and the quality of the video.
europe is 5000 kilometres long in a straight line from Egypt to Britain
at 20km a day that would be 250 days to march a legion from one end of the empire to another end.
thats 8 months of marching
so a legion could theoretically arrive within a year from egypt to britain
(not counting the ship travel time)
Hence why controlling the med was so important for zipping your troops around and more importantly your supplies around
How many frequent mileage points do you think Aurelian would have collected?
@@InvictaHistoryHence why splitting the Med effectively broke the spine of the Roman Empire. While there was still movement, there was less and less as each half became it's own power zone.
how could you not think of this everyday
*Furiously takes notes for DnD and Book lore*
Also! I would LOVE seeing a much more complicated breakdown with camp followers and merchants that follow the army! Maybe also see a deployment phase too!
Merchants that follow the army?
@@GAMER123GAMINGI didn't know this so I had to look it up myself. I guess at different points in a legions journey different merchants would join the camp followers to ply their wares. People would be selling food, wine, or whatever they had. After battles, they would be there to buy spoils (loot and slaves) at a discount. Was easier for someone to keep their coins safe on the way back home than to try to keep their gains from being stolen or lost.
@@GAMER123GAMINGnot only followed, but some would go ahead of it to buy supplies to the army - and because they were using the army's resources, those merchants would be, by necessity, extremely shrewd so they could buy on the cheap.
@@Jamhael1 Yes! Verily! Merchants and Camp Followers do exist in the Roman (and Medieval) War Columns as food and logistics are quite tricky if you only just forage and requisition your goods
I believe that the army too request or purchase things for food, weapons and armour maintenance or acquisition, and building materials from local settlements
@@odd-ysseusdoesstuff6347 exactly - and, depending on the situation, villages and settlements in the path of the military would provide resources as demanded by senatorial decree, under the promisse of future compensation.
Absolutely terrific. Moving a large body of soldiers, animals, equipment, baggage, possibly siege artillery and other weapons… the analogy of the snake is very instructive.
Men would literally find out the true size of a Roman army on a march than get therapy.
They just like me fr
Why would you attack me in this savage fashion?
I'm just saying there's a number of great therapist led videos on youtube for whatever topic people may feel pulled towards.
For real men, this IS therapy.
A really excellent presentation, featuring great work and visualization. Thanks.
Definitely fascinating. I spend a bit of time trying to learn more about Chinese history. It would be interesting to know how a similar Chinese force of that era handled their logistics. While a lot would be the same, I am sure there would be differences.
Knowing the Chinese and their penchant for documentation and bureaucracy, they possibly have MILLENIA of those types of information in detail.
And their army's were often way bigger than roman legions
sheesh… the scale of it is both amazing and terrifying, yall did great with this.
This was very informative and well presented , the snake visual was particularly helpful. I was also hoping for more information on how the legions were supplied , where and how livestock , weapons , food , bedding , uniforms and men were acquired. And how the supplies were compiled stored and shipped to legions in the field .
@mchlsndr
@mchlsndr
3 years ago
This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@jeremyprinzen5954
@jeremyprinzen5954
3 years ago
A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
FlagArmada Productions
·
1 reply
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
3 years ago
Great work, buddy! :)
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@nomademc6548
@nomademc6548
3 years ago
The best! I'm from brazil.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@mchlsndr
@mchlsndr
3 years ago
This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@jeremyprinzen5954
@jeremyprinzen5954
3 years ago
A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
FlagArmada Productions
·
1 reply
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
3 years ago
Great work, buddy! :)
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@nomademc6548
@nomademc6548
3 years ago
The best! I'm from brazil.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@mchlsndr
@mchlsndr
3 years ago
This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@jeremyprinzen5954
@jeremyprinzen5954
3 years ago
A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
FlagArmada Productions
·
1 reply
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
3 years ago
Great work, buddy! :)
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@nomademc6548
@nomademc6548
3 years ago
The best! I'm from brazil.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@mchlsndr
@mchlsndr
3 years ago
This could be your best work yet. Definitely up there. Incredible.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@jeremyprinzen5954
@jeremyprinzen5954
3 years ago
A very interesting story on Karan's former friends and what they've gone through - I'm interested to see though the end of Karan in "Falador has Fallen" series
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
FlagArmada Productions
·
1 reply
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
@ZarakyeRunescapeShow
3 years ago
Great work, buddy! :)
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
@nomademc6548
@nomademc6548
3 years ago
The best! I'm from brazil.
1
FlagArmada Productions
Reply
New subscriber here. I don't do it very often but this was amazing so I hit that button.. A wonderful insight into the logistics of an ancient army with great narration and amazing graphics. Just wow...and it's free. What an age we live in!
The most shocking part are the big ass trees in this video.
Like damn were they that big?
I thought I was the only one to notice that...
extremely confusing... either giant trees or tiny tiny tiny humans. scale is WAY off, surprising for such a high effort, well researched video
@@Tom_Quixote Nope I noticed it too. I mean some trees might have been this big, but I doubt that most would have reached that height, even though they must have been mostly primeval forests.
This is an outstandingly comprehensive, visually impressive, perfectly narrated and extremely well put together piece of work!!!! 😃
That’s what she said…
Never gets old
Very interesting, beautiful and well documented video. Love it!
Can't believe that an entire Roman column covers 92.6% of my country's length (27km).
Asa retired Army soldier myself, it is pretty amazing how much of this routine seemed familiar. Perhaps we got more from Rome then we thought.
There's no perhaps, of course we did. London is derived from a Latin word and quite a bit more.
@@Steve-318military practises and language are different things
Not much has changed from the standard mk1 grunt. The Roman's even marched to cadence in a familiar pattern. Wouldn't be suprised if those cadences talked about the Roman equivalent of Jody and what he was doing to your woman.
This routine is older than Rome. The Neo Assyrians and Persians organized professional armies while Rome was just a village on the Tiber. The Chinese and Indians had very similar abilities to pull off insane logistics. Roman fanboys need to stop acting like Rome invented everything.
@@geordiejones5618 yet..you commented thst on a video...about Rome..hmm
Excellent! This TH-cam content is higher quality and better researched than “proffesional’ channels on tv. I do have a few questions: 1) you did not cover much about logistics of daily functions for soldiers and animals. How iare toilet activities managed for a huge group 30-40,000 and innumerable animals within a confined camp without creating a health hazard? 2) did soldiers eat during the daily march or did they have to wait until the evening meal? 3) given the logistics and time required to build a new camp every day, were camps ever re-used? When travelling along major Roman roads, having a set of pre existing camps spaced out at daily march intervals could be helpful, maybe even troops to march further each day.
Thanks againfor this fine work.
I would love a strategic game that took this into consideration and showed it. There are so many that have interesting C&C, but they dumb it down by subsuming the logistics behind the scenes. Something that would also include the camp followers and livestock/logistical lines. I'm someone who would love to deep dive this kind of game.
You could even simplify it for general consumption by making commanders who will basically make it like other games, with the exception that you can opt to take command of these through the game settings.
I found that the game grand tactician civil war which is a American civil war game did this quite well you armies on the map aren't just one army it's divides into corps that you can move separately down different routes etc and have a supply system one for food, ammunition and condition of your troops so you have men who are injured, ill or if morale is low they deserted for campaigns you can build forts and supply depots and garrison them etc and this is for each corps which in battle are also divided into sub commanders if you turn on realistic mode have to stay in range of the general staff to receive orders and that they can be delayed. A very good game the ai is a bit funky sometimes
Another day, another excuse to ponder the Roman Empire. Well done yet again!!!
This video reminded me why I subscribed. Excellent work!! It's mind boggling to think the leader elements of the army would already be working on the new camp before the last had left the old camp.
Wow! Many thanks for the hard work and efforts to provide thoughtful and well explained and graphic details of the Roman army logistics. I can see some possible logistic topic suggestions - First, how the army built a new camp (walls and ditches) within less than one day. Did they bring the timber with them? Cut new trees? Both? Did each camp site have walls and ditches, especially if the legions had to march long distances, say from Italy to Britain, or Italy to Syria? Second, what about the procedure(s) where armies had to march across rivers/marshes? Did they have to send surveyors/engineers/soldiers several days in advance to build those structures, or stop at the river, build the structure, then continue the march? Overall, the sheer size, scale, calculations, and other logistics of 'moving a city' were just another impressive feature of the Roman culture which once again demonstrates the Mos Maiorum of Fides, Pietas, Religio, Cultus, Disciplina, Gravitas, Constantia, Virtus, Dignitas, Auctoritas. One more topic suggestion would be the logistics and how it might have contributed, or could have prevented, the Teutoburg Forest battle disaster. Again, well done!
I was taught in Command and Staff College that the average speed of a modern infantry unit on decent roads is 2.5 miles per hour. You can assume a march of 8 hours and 20 miles per day without wearing out the troops, although every several days, you will have to give a rest day.
Babe wake up, I'm thinking about Rome again
Great video and i love the snake overview and meticulous conveyance of the scale, of how massively long these marching lines were.
Gaul and Germania must've been the Vietnam for the Romans, tribesmen in the forest distracting the front of the column and a bigger force attacking the middle to separate the ends and the rest plundering the baggage in the rear. It just goes to show how competent a leader Caesar was as he faced this exact scenario several times everywhere he went throughout Gaul, Germania, and Britain. One specific example I recall from Historia Civillis was a close call, Caesar rallied the vanguard to hold the enemy back until the scouts and cavalry returned to harass and threaten their own counter encirclement actually fighting hand to hand himself. The Gauls realized the situation was untenable as they had lost the initiative and more of the legion would reinforce as time went on until they themselves would be outnumbered. The Gauls gave up and withdrew to fight another day but the men already raiding the baggage either in because of greed or the chaos of battle didn't hear their kinsmens call to disengage and were vengefully set upon by the Roman rearguard and dispatched. Caesar displayed a patient ability to keep calm in unfavorable circumstances and also his even more valuable skill of spotting talent when picking equally competent sub commanders which saved the army's ass on many occasions such as this.
And lets not forget the Picts, those damn Smurfs from hell...
"YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAN! YOU WEREN'T THERE! YOU DIDN'T SEE WHAT I SAW! BLUE DEMONS, NAKED, COMING FROM THE WOODS, SCREAMING THEIR HORRID WARCRY....
La-la-lalala-la-lala-lala..."
@@Jamhael1 the highlands were the Afghan mountains for the Romans, that and the Persians in the Caucasus whenever they didn't follow the Armenians and Georgians advice
What an amazing content creator I have found! Thank you for all your hard work!
Does the army just leave the prior camp's walls up after everyone has left?
A feature not covered, nor where materials for the new palisade came from.
No mention of constructing latrines or washing facilities for all of them.
Soldiers cut wood.@@EllieMaes-Grandad
Every night? @@illegalewahrheiten2911