Astrology - Fate and Destiny in Early Judaism and Islam - History of Jewish & Muslim Astrology
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2021
- Astrology and montheism have long had a complicated relationship. In this episode of Esoterica we explore the early interactions of Judaism and Islam with astrology from the nature of the stars and planets, the role of astral forces in the Bible, Qur'an and Talmud, to the philosophical and legal interaction between astrological concepts and these two great monotheistic religions.
This episode is also a collaboration with Ms. Esmé L. K. Partridge, an undergraduate student of Religion at SOAS, University of London and an independent researcher and writer on Islamic studies, mysticism and the place of religious thought in modernity. Her latest publication on the mystical meaning of the moon according to Ibn Arabi can be found in Volume 68 of The Journal of The Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi Society, and her other essays and articles can be accessed via her website, www.esmelkpartridge.com. You can also find her on Twitter at @EsmeLKPartridge.
@13:02 it says Philo but that's actually from Josephus' The Jewish War - whoops!
Sources:
Tzvi Langermann - Hebrew Astronomy: Deep Soundings from a Rich Tradition
Malya Levin - Astrology in Rabbinic Judaism Source Sheet - www.sefaria.org/sheets/240083...
Al-Kindi (9th Cent. CE), On The Proximate Agent Cause of Generation and
Corruption (Trans. Peter Adamson & Peter E. Pormann), The Philosophical Works of Al-Kindi, Oxford: Oxford University Press, pp. 153-172
Al-Kindi (9th Cent. CE), On The Prostration of the Outermost Body (Trans.
Peter Adamson & Peter E. Pormann), The Philosophical Works of Al-Kindi, Oxford: Oxford University Press, pp. 173-186
Al-Kindi (9th Cent. CE), On Rays, (Trans. Peter Adamson & Peter E.
Pormann), The Philosophical Works of Al-Kindi, Oxford: Oxford University
Press, pp. 217-244
Abu Ma’shar al-Balkhi, Kitab al-madkhal al-kabir ila ’ilm ahkam al-nujum
(The Great Introduction), ed. Richard Lemay, 9 vols. (Naples: Instituto
Universitario Orientale, 1995-6)
Al-Tabari (1326), Jami al-Bayan (30 vols in 12, Beirut: Dar al-Macrifa, 1992;
reprint of 1326 AH Bulaq Edition), Vol. 1
Abu Ma’shar al-Balkhi, Kitab al-madkhal al-kabir ila ’ilm ahkam al-nujum
(The Great Introduction), ed. Richard Lemay, 9 vols. (Naples: Instituto
Universitario Orientale, 1995-6)
Yahya J. Michot (2000), ‘Ibn Taymiyya On Astrology: Annotated Translation
Of Three Fatwas’ in: Journal of Islamic Studies, Volume 11, Issue 2, May
2000, pp. 147-208
John W. Livingston (1971), ‘Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah: A Fourteenth
Century Defense Against Astrological Divination and Alchemical
Transmutation’ in: Journal of the American Oriental Society, pp. 91-103
Robert G. Morrison (2009), ‘Discussions of Astrology in Early Tafsīr’ in
Journal of Qur’anic Studies, Vol. 11, No. 2, Edinburgh: Edinburgh
University Press
Teri Gee (2012), Strategies of Defending Astrology: a Continuing Tradition
(PhD Thesis, University of Toronto)
Liana Saif (2015), The Arabic Influences on Early Modern Occult
Philosophy, Palgrave
#astrology #judaism #islam
I was always fascinated by the fact that 3 MAGI who studied the stars were the first ones to know about the birth of the messiah, it’s like the Bible itself is saying these forms of divination are true and ordained by God
Yeah, it's such an interesting part of the whole Jesus story.
But churches don't teach that. They teach of these things as evil Satan practices and will be punished by God. I don't go to church anymore (5 years now) ever since I found these videos. I'm always in search of who God really is and what He's all about.
It’s so validating to read your comment. This exact point has gripped me to the point of near obsession for the past 2 years. I just cannot let it go and have be searching for something somewhere to prove the link btw the two beyond any reasonable doubt.
Sounds crazy but it almost feels like I was born knowing this as somehow “truth” yet it’s basically impossible to ever prove it as such.
I know that the Israelites kings casted lots to get answers from God about big decisions, like Saul
@Disc Golf
On March 20 of 2021, Jesus (the sun) will rise from the dead (winter). On this same date, Noah's Ark/Arc will come aground on the same spring equinox. Noah will wait for the ground to warm up before leaving his ship. God will remind him to remove his sandals as the ground is holy (warm).
"God divided between the light and between the darkness" (Gen. 1:1). It is the East, the Orient, the Urim et Thumim, or the true light- the light par excellence, i.e., the equinoctial Sun of spring.
Awesooome!
1:15
Call me stupid but suddenly the Weird Sisters and their “weirding” ways in Shakespeare’s Macbeth make A LOT more sense now
After spending so much time consuming occult/esoteric knowledge on youtube via lectures etc..THIS was the channel I've long been searching for. This video along with your incredible guest speaker made 45 minutes fly by like nothing. Thank you Justin for your contribution.
Me too!
@@kburnham8755I expect as much from Sledge but it was quite surprising to see such a young guest able to hold her own beside him.
I know shockingly little about early and Medieval Islamic Magic Practices. This episode has been a wonderful primer! Thank you both Dr. Sledge and Ms. Partridge!
Impeccable work as always.
I agree you could make like 10 videos lexploring Astrology’s rather odd connection to Christianity.
Maybe your next playlist? 🧐
Cheers!
Thanks for the super and hopefully I'll get around to more astrology content in the future!
I can't get over how wonderful you, your channel, your guests, and academic TH-cam in general are. I'm so lucky to be as curious as I am in the age of information!
I truly wish Ms. Esmé would have mentioned it from a Sufi point of view, like Master Ibn Arabi for example. It would have made everything much clearer.
However, thank you both for the great effort!
I agree. I also find it really disappointing that there are no practicing Muslims to speak on Astrology in Islam. Imaam Al-Shafii' wrote a book on astrology then burned it.
@A K FYI Abu Ma'shar was a hadith scholar...
@@SalikUlHaqq "Let's talk religion" on yt - a lot of great videos about sufism and other mystical tendencies in islam
Why was the book burnt?
Just before I finish, I have to express how much of a blessing your channel is. You are doing the -Demiurge's- God's work, dr. Sledge. As an internet occultist who was initiated into the Arcane by post modern authors, I find it so refreshing to see an academic, serious take on the classical occult texts of the Western Tradition and on the occult practices of the ancient times. You have opened a whole new world to me.
Glad you are finding the material engaging! Thanks for the kind comment.
What is an Internet Occultist? Meaning You only use internet resources to study?
@@anthonyarcanumsanctumregnu9551 this term does not have sense, bacause there is nothing hidden about it, actually many schollars use term "occult" only when they talk about 19th century teosophy. Esoteric, hermetic, gnostic... those words does not have any specific definition and people use them like yawning.
That's Zoroaster Bro
Let's take a second to appreciate how much content of a very diverse and thorough nature Dr. Sledge pumps out on a regular basis. Thank you and thank God.
Sledge has impeccable comic timing, friends. For example, on Christians and the fall of Lucifer/Satan following his failed rebellion: "So ... ... ... that really got out of hand." So funny.
Glad you think so!
It'd be a great .gif to send to Lucferian friends!
He really has a great sense of humor
Christians really did let the translation Telephone Game go wild when they were appropriating Judaism 🤣
That stars prostrating made me think of Proclus: "all things pray" (except the One)
Islam teaches that all created living things are created by the One Creator and is given its mode of worship by that same One Creator
I would think that once you get to the level of divine oneness, prayer just becomes the divine reflecting on itself, leading to creation. In pure worship, all of creation is reflected in the act because all of creation is the act.
@@grimble4564 aahh yes "glory be to me" - Bastami
I am the truth - al hallaj
Ms. Esmé L. K. Partridge is a delight to listen to. Please have her back again soon.
Her and other young scholars - would love to host other folks!
Oh wow, why did I skipped this video when it first came out? Esme Partridge is here. I've read quite a number of her articles and have been interested in her work for quite sometime. Awesome work to Esoterica.
Wow, just wow. Thank you so much to both yourself and Esme for putting this together.
What struck me was how Astrology and Astronomy in the Islamic and Jewish histories synergizes with the Corpus Hermeticum.
Al Kindi's work has been added to my reading list.
One of the reasons the esoteric nature of religion and belief survives to this day, is because of people like yourselves, preserving it and reigniting interest.
I am on lesson 14 of Christopher Warnock's Astrological Magic Course. Traditional astrology aka Arabic astrology, is very technical and highly intuitive. .That is why it is so difficult to learn. The astrological magic in Picatrix is very sophisticated. Astral High Magic De Imaginibus of Thabit Ibn Qurra is also very sophisticated. I have learned to make planetary, fixed stars, mansions of the moon, constellation, face, & house based talismans.
I have been plodding away at this stuff for over two years now. This type of astrology takes time to learn. This stuff is a blast to learn!! You will have a high level of astrological narrative if you take classes for this specific topic. I have both the Chris Warnock & John Michael Greer Picatrix, along with Dan Attrell & David Porreca Picatrix. The former is more practical, while the latter is more of an academic version. Both are great!!! I enjoyed this video!!
I looked at his courses .. unfortunately I can’t justify paying for them although I’m sure they are WELL worth the money!
This was another great episode. The history and philosophy of Astrology are a huge study and the beliefs in relation to religion were very insightful. When I was a child in "Sunday School", we were taught that Astrology was a form of or at least likened to Witchcraft and thus against Christianity and God. However in Italian folklore La Befana or the Witch of Epiphany is said to have taught the Magi where to find the infant Christ using her knowledge of Astrology. I found your reference about the Gospel of Mathew and the Star of Bethlehem and "polemicizing against the Jewish rejection of the messianic character of Jesus" very intriguing and deepened my understanding of the text. The facts you shared about The Jewish and Muslim ideas of Astrology really deepened my understanding around ancient and current ideas of Astrology... Thank you! If nothing else, stargazing on a clear night truly brings you into the totality of creation and an existential realization of being.
This is great. Really interested in philosophically unpacking this topic. Too many people just accept the concept of astrology as is.
Yep, the philosophical underpinnings are the most interesting aspect to me.
@@jfreeman3978 The Moment of Astrology by Geoffrey Cornelius
As above so below
Honestly, this was your best episode yet. So much to think on. I adore the idea of you bringing on guests in this way, Esme was amazing! I really look forward to more from her, thank you for inviting her onto your show.
A pleasure to see someone looking deeply into these subjects; most channels merely attempt to wipe the dust off the mirror. I'll be watching...
" For we do not struggle against flesh and blood, but against Principalities and Powers, against the Rulers ( ARCHONS ) of the darkness of this physical creation, against the spiritual host of wickedness in the heavenly places "
( Ephesians 6:12 )
THINK GNOSTIC !
"I can't be an expert on everything in the study of esotericism" - You're Fired!
sorry not sorry ;)
@@TheEsotericaChannel 🤣😁
This is a great episode. Thank you for what you do. Now we need an episode which is a conversation between you and Ms. Partridge, along the lines of the excellent ones you've had with the Modern Hermetecist and the Magician and the Fool.
Ancient Babylonians in “Iraq” literally were the first civilization to have a comprehensive understanding of cosmology…unfortunately they also worshiped stars and celestial bodies
Thank you so much for this episode! Esme is an excellent resource!
This is my favorite TH-cam channel.
What he actually said: "if fate or destiny are governed by forces other than God, what does this do exactly to the concept of God's sovereignty? Indeed, it can almost seem to make God's sovereignty seem redundant"
What I heard him say: "In this world, is the destiny of mankind controlled by some transcendental entity or law? Is it like the hand of God hovering above? At least it is true that man has no control, even over his own will."
Ahhhhh, so we don't have free will.
I wonder why it is said that we have free will when in truth we don't ?????
😂
Thank you Both of you . I am not an acedemic scholar but I thoroughly enjoy your work and the knowledge and skills of making such in depth subject matter understanding as a Basic Education Casual Learner and Viewer .
Precious work...thank you for exploring these old texts...love from west coast Canada
hugs to british columbia, canada!
Very cool episode. I loved the combined knowledges coming together! Keep up the great content!
You knocked another one out the park, and I have posted a tweet. I enjoyed your and Esme's insights and sharing of knowledge I knew before about astrology in Judaism and Islam. Bravo!
Great content.
Awesome crossover!
The fact that we live during the era of Sefaria is a beautiful thing 🙏🏾
I loved it! Thank you for the content! Brilliant as always
Make Sure to Subscribe & Consider supporting Esoterica by
becoming a monthly Patron - www.patreon.com/esotericachannel
or a one time donation - www.paypal.me/esotericachannel
Glorious. Watching twice. Thank you both for your service.
Thank you so much. I always love your video's, and I thoroughly enjoyed Esmé's contribution too.
Thanks for the content. This might be too personal for you, but it seems you are a practicing Jew. if you could do an episode explaining on how all of your studies have influenced your view on Judaism and Christianity/Islam in general, it would be very interesting. I find that most people don’t know much about religion, let alone the occult, and just follow religion by tradition. So someone who knows a lot about both and still choses a specific faith sparks my interest! Regardless, thank you for all the great ressources and solid info!
Me too!
I’d be interested to hear his story as well. After 15 years in the church, I have begun studying all different cultures and religions. I have come to my own ideas, but largely continue to follow Jesus as an example. Although I think of Him quite differently than I was taught.
@@jessicacecil7791 Recently I’ve had a very similar experience. To be honest it sounds cliche but it’s been very freeing.
@@jessicacecil7791 You might want to check into Rosicrucianism.
@@jessicacecil7791 but thats beautiful, you still find the truth in that way and you do not leave it with your previous beliefs.
Another excellent video. Particularly enjoyed Esme’s contribution. Some really interesting ideas. I need to rewatch some of the connected videos.
Yep, she's great!
She is brilliant
Absolutely wonderful. THese videos are addictive. Fascinating, learned, and always very amusing. What a scholar, what a teacher.
Well done. Really enjoyed the guest scholar as well.
Are you familiar with “The Star of Bethlehem: The Legacy of the Magi” (Rutgers Press, 1999), book by Michael R. Molnar. He seems to suggest that the Magi actually practiced a form of Greek astrology and he comes up with his own theory as to what astrological event would have portended the birth of Jesus and gives his hypothesis as to the date - in April 6 BC. It’s an interesting read, but my understanding of the technical aspects of astrology are cursory, at best. Do you have any thoughts on Molnar’s work, which is not without controversy? Could you do a video on Molnar and other theories about the Star of Bethlehem, perhaps part of your video playlist on Christianity and astrology?
I've seen a couple of docs that suggest the "star" was a strange movement of planets in Aries (the sign of the Jews) and that something was happening in Judea way back then. So, Jesus was an Aries (April/May), which also fits the NT tradition of shepherds in the fields (not December). So interesting and not surprising how astrology runs through a lot of stories
I love this guy's sense of humor. Great channel
Wow; learned a lot about Jewish, Islamic, and Hellenistic philosophy today. Love the different perspectives on luck and destiny expressed here. Your video on Al-Kindi's theory of Stellar Rays is open in a different tab. I have also been collecting the classical Judaic mystic texts (including a Hebrew copy of the Greater Key of Solomon), so your playlist on Jewish mysticism is also open in another tab.
Your intro never gets old!
Glad you like it!
GOoD works, brethren! Much appreciated.
Awesome episode! I found it deeply fascinating the idea of “cords” reaching down from heaven.
High quality video , thank you !
What a great episode! Thank you.
Amazing episode!
Beautiful essay Missy, you had me @ "the Mœtazelites" 👳
I was literally JUST reading about that name for Saturn in the Book of Amos, which is quoted in Acts of the Apostles.
I've watched quite a number of these videos by now, and they just keep getting better. Have you investigated the role of the "Sabians" of Harran in the transmission of the Hermetic tradition and the development of the sciences and philosophy in the time of the Abbasid Caliphate?
Absolutely incredible. Thank you so much to both of you👏👏👏🥲
Now that's striking, I just did a talk with Giovanni Yochanan about mazal and astrological matters. Also amazing video!
Thanks, River! Glad to see you around these parts again!
@@TheEsotericaChannel of course! It's been too long
Thank you for your work!🙏🔥💚 Balance through Will of Compassion
Excellent.... you both expalined well. Esme hate off to you maam . Majestic 🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️❤️
hat off
Very intriguing, interesting and valuable. Appreciate it.
Thanks!
Your breaks in recording of “loaded silence” make Me laugh pretty hard Justin 😂 I really appreciate Your sense of humour Sir, well done 🙏🙏🙏
Glad you appreciate them...'humor'
I’m Canadian, same with color and colour :)
Woooww! Such a bliss!! Shabat shalom!!! I look forward for more of this focusing specifically on Judaism that seems the most unknown or untold of the the 3 monotheistic religions. That was the best episode so far. Thank you and congratulations!!
Glad you like it I'll be getting to the medieval European Jewish astrology at some point, Ibn Ezra, etc.
@@TheEsotericaChannel I look forward to that topic...I read that Ezra drank a fiery liquid, then re wrote the 5 books of Moses and the 70 sealed esoteric books, was the founder of the Sanhedrin and also the favorite scribe of Assurbanipal collecting many of the historical writings that ended in the library of Alexandria. I have always wondered about this. Fascinating character so mysteriously hidden in history and information disappearing at a rapid rate
Shalom goy, I've seen in the stars recently that your credit score has decreased. Please send us a payment of 6 gorillion sheckels. Mazel tov, goy.
@@beaelectric9613 please tell me more about this please it really fascinating, i cant find the earliest detail of islam and it seems all the scripture are rewrote of an old and earliest events that happen that relate to religion,
Please reply me, im full of wandering
I love that you have made so much high quality Content this is going to give me like months of things to research 😂 years really
thank you for the information presented in this video!
there seems to be great confusion over whether or not the study of astrology is or is not 'evil'.
for me, knowing the planetary alignments is like listening to a weather forecast, Mercury in retrograde being a great example.
there is no random, but there is free will. we choose what we do with the circumstances presented to us.
each person's birth chart is like a chemical equation, but with frequencies; planetary alignments will effect each one based on their individual 'formula'.
Looking forward to those ten episodes on astrology in early Christianity! 🤩
"Soooo... THAT really got out of hand..."
I'm dead xD love your delivery on that
Loved the video!
This was amazing
Another great video! Again, what are the forms of divination Dr. Sledge mentioned which are encouraged? I just want to see the proper spelling in the original language.
Esme is the future!
Thank you Maestro Sledge
Muito obrigada por compartilhar conhecimentos.
Good stuff Doctor! I really enjoyed her presentation. I like the inclusion of a junior scholar.
"In the name of God and HEYLIL who is the angel to whom God assigned the strength and power of Saturn by perfecting actions toward the cold! Indeed, you stand in the seventh heaven. I invoke you by all your names, which are in Arabic, Zohal; in Latin, Saturnus; in the Phoenician language, Keyhven; in Roman, Koronez; in Greek, Hacoronoz; in Indian, Sacas. I invoke and call out to you by all those names. I conjure you by the name of God on high, who gives you potency and spirit so that you may accept me and take up my prayer through the obedience with which you obey God and His dominion so that you may do such-and-such for me!" - Picatrix 3.7.16
It's interesting that it's Saturn here and not Venus. But I guess Saturn is more s p o o k y
@@TheEsotericaChannel GOD never created us, the demiurge (Satan/Saturn) created us.
@@TheEsotericaChannel Why is it interesting that its Saturn and not Venus? Just curious about clarification thanks.
*love the channel*
What are your views on "pagan" esoterica and pagan reconstruction?
Thankyou 🙏 Much appreciated.
THANK YOU BOTH!!!!!
You are so awesomely knowledgeable and bestowing with of those gifts. You are truly a servant of Good :)
Love the channel thank you for passing this knowledge you are a saint
I know this was a while ago, but I just want to say I love the guest's earrings.
Dr.Sledge please talk about the book of Ghayat el hakim (Picatrix) and the writings of el Buni Thnx
Be good if he could read Arabic.
But him knowing Hebrew is good in itself.
Great job you two. She is brilliant btw.
If Saturn has a long association with Jewish people, do you think that anti Semitic views influenced Saturn’s interpretation as a malific force in the heavens?
I'd love to hear a discussion regarding Sirius and it's lore. Ty
very interesting food for thought. Appreciate the ideas of celestial bdies being utilized by man for 'personal use'. This has parallels with chinese mysticism specifically Taoism.
Would love for you bring some indepth knowledge of the ancient chinese side of what you talk about on this channel and also the vedic/ancient indian side.
super cool channel!
May I express my hope that a video on manichaeism may be on its way? Have the stars ruled in favor of that yet?
Some many calendar systems and hence astrology varies in calculations.
To further prove Al-Kendi's point 39:56 there is a Hadith of The Prophet that says
“Nothing can change the Divine decree except dua(prayer)”.
[Musnad Ahmad, 5/677; Ibn Majah, 90; Jami` Al-Tirmidhi, 139. Classed as hasan by Albani]
what is that intro composition, please, I need to know!
Fascinating, thank you for your dispensations. One correction; Saturn's name, _Keyvan_ is Persian in origin not Assyrian.
0:32 God works “thru” the cosmos and our free will. It’s a system that is a science with patterns and hypothesis (fate) much like Divination in the Bible ‘goral’ and other practices
I'm personally not a believer in any supernatural phenomena (being both an Atheist and Christian apostate *gasp*) but the study is fascinating nonetheless.
And I can't write it off entirely either, I see value in things like astrology or tarot as a sort of meditation, or a way to sort out one's thoughts.
As someone that has studied astrology and later found out that many interpretations of the Hebrew Bible prohibit it, I can only be surprised. But I have to add a question: is astrology divination? I don't know, but contemporary Western astrology doesn't seem to view it as divination, but rather as a way to determine the 'qualities' of a person, day, hour, etc. Mostly personality astrology, which once learned can be used a certain way, thus not very deterministic
@@Are_WeThereYet I can see the point. But time lord isn't necessarily deterministic 'when interpreted by modern people. The idea of preparing for a Saturn period or waiting for Mercury to go out of retrograde is the opposite of deterministic, is it not? People don't believe they are changing fate by planning according to what the stars 'say', they believe they're accounting for metaphysical forces when making their decisions.
Most go to astrology to get simple life hacks, like how to choose a partner (that's probably the most common) or career. If they would believe it's all fate people would just to prepare mentally for what's coming and that's it. No psychological astrology.
It touches on the topic of predestination. Yes, it is clear that our birth charts are set the moment we are born, however, we still make choices and can change things that would or could have come to past. It would not be divination because the details of one's life were already "planned" for lack of a better word, and therefore you would be just observing what was already predetermined by God or maybe even your preborn self. Whatever a person's belief is, it would have no bearings on the validity or outcome of a person's planetary chart. It simply is what it is.
4:04 "Yeah, that was a messy divorce." 😅
I LOVED THAT TOOO
Hello dr sledge, I am interested in topics you cover, and I really got hooked watching this video, but i feel like im missing context upon watching some of your videos.I can not understand these videos the information i currently have, maybe because i am not sufficient enough in english. My turkish religional information is really rich. Can you recommend me a way to improve my english religion terminology, and necessary context, so that i can understand your videos more comprehensively?
Excellent
Much appreciated
“That might make them anxious about the future or anything” 😂 *straight face*
I could listen to her talk until the end of time.
Thanks!
Hi, was a link removed?
I always wonder how does diferent astrological systems work simultaneousley
for example, today is the christian-gregorian calendar is the 7th day of the 3rd month indicating the sign of pisces and in the muslim-hijri calendar is the 23rd day of the 7th month indicating the sign of leo. Are both valid ? How does this happen ?. Are both valid ? How does this happen ?
is it that each one has their own realm on the mundus imaginalis wherein they operate ?
sort of like, as Ms. Esmé L. K. Partridge quotes in this video, Abu Ma'shar says "Astrology is the fruit of Astronomy". So astronomy would be the tree from where this diferent astrological fruits sprung up
I always find it helpful to think about this in a comparitive way with economy and ecology. With the former being a more general-theoretical-abstract science and the latter a particular-practical-tangible one