What is your source on the brown coloration being a result of pheomelanin? I really don't think that's the case. There are chocolate silvers, it does not change with pheomelanin intensity & is more likely just a hue that eumelanin takes under certain genetic circumstances
TYRP1 does not reduce the density of eumelanin. Cinnamons and chocolates don't have less eumelanin, rather the structure of their eumelanin is altered to reflect light differently & thus appear brown. I might try to dm you on tumblr on my computer later so we can compare sources-I tried dming on mobile about the amber thing before and it was bugged & didn't go through.
@@frickfrickkin1723 My source is linked in the desc; I struggled finding anything that went into the mechanics of the color bc most sources only discuss the mutation itself. The quote from my source reads "The wild-type B allele produces normal, black coloration (full production of eumelanin)" - "full production of eumelanin" which I took to mean the other mutations did not produce full eumelanin. By all means, please, if I'm wrong, correct me! My tumblr DMs are open and if your source checks out I'll pin your comment as a correction. Thank you!
I'm working in a mathematics-heavy field after failing geometry twice & just barely making it thru algebra 1 without ever taking another math class. you're fine lol
Someday, I'll make a 'genetically accurate' family tree for my Tiny/Rusty roleswap AU...I have some interesting ideas for how that plot will change and what'll happen >:}
That's so interesting though. May I ask where did you/are you learning about it all ? Is it a specific course, or are those from personnal researches (or even both) ? :0 Additionnally, what color would a ginger tabby, long haired tom and a short haired black cat's kittens potentially be ? I understand if you don't have the time to answer this, so no worries ! And thank you for all the genetics videos. I absolute love them.
Sadly no specific courses, I simply go about reading all the articles I can find! Starting w/breeder websites and then going more in-depth once I have foundational understanding w/peer-reviewed articles. I recc Messybeast for a good comprehensive source. You should watch the rest of my videos and do that pairing yourself! :) I recc my ginger/tortie video in particular. i'm happy to help w/specific questions if you get stuck/confused but I'm not just going to do all the work for you. you won't learn anything that way! thank you very much ^^
@@littlehungrywarrior Thank you ! And I find that way cooler to learn that way. And I wasn't expecting you to do "all the work". That' not what I meant, which is why I precised if you do not have the time it is not a worry. I am myself quite busy around animals these days hence why I currently do not have the time to myself study the question better _yet,_ and thought as you already know the subject better you may be able to give a quick "rounded up" answer even if not super dupper accurate. I watched all the genetics videos, unfortunately again I do not have the time to sit and focus on stuff I like these days. I absolutely hate having people do "all the work for me" but sometimes it does come in handy when you have to put priorities on other things that are currently more important :) I am planning to learn all those anyway, but having litteraly not even a minute of free time ... welp, you can easily figure its impossible to retain from only watching the video one time. But thank you anyway.
@@anxieteasip Glad to hear you plan on doing it yourself ^^ The ginger/tortie video is pretty short so I hope you're able to find the time to review. to give a "rounded up" answer tho, recall that the O allele (causes ginger) is located on the X chromosome, which females have 2 of and males only have 1 of. For ease and speed, I recc my video on a no-punnett cheat for figuring out ginger/black-base/tortie genes: th-cam.com/video/ufOxInS_rXc/w-d-xo.html again, I'm happy to help further if you get stuck in any specific areas/have specific questions ^^
@@littlehungrywarrior Got it, thank you ! Edit : I just re-read my previous answer, and apologize if I may have sounded rough. I get triggered when people think I' being lazy because I am usually the one doing all the work for everyone and, typically, getting no credits or rewards for it, so I was like "Oh my god not the internet too 😭" 🤚
@@anxieteasip oh no worries at all! it didn't come off as rude, no worries ^^ for my end I apologize if I implied you were lazy, that wasn't my intention.
I’m here both trying to figure out how to make one of my Warrior Cats OC’s realistic(Her name is Lightingdusk, her current design is a diluted yellow colour with sandy brown stripes, with black legs, ears, tail tip and snout, with a lighter black for her paws, and some lighter black on her snout too. As you can see unrealistic.) and figuring out what fur genetics my actual pet cat Millie has. She is a short hair spotted tabby I believe(Her stripes are hard to see but they are there and look more like spots than anything, but her legs have the proper tabby stripes on them), her paws to her elbows on her fronts legs, and all of her back legs and underside are white, so she has a lot of the white spotting gene(or whatever the other white gene is called), with some mild brown spotting on the bottom of her paws. Her cheeks, neck and snout are also white, while the bridge of her nose has a white smudge but mostly is the brownish greyish colour of the rest of her fur. She has greenish yellow eyes, a dark rusty nose with a sandy brown spot below her nose on the white. Millie has sandy brown eye markings too. Her fur is like a greyish brownish colour, don’t even know how to describe it and she has pink toe beans despite her nose being that rusty colour. Fairly certain her mom was a short hair calico with no white spotting, didn’t get a good look at her when I first got Millie in 2019(Before the quarantines hit.), but her remaining sister had a calico pelt with some minor white spotting(At least I think she had white spotting too). TLDR: I think Millie may be a short hair black or cinnamon spotted tabby, with the silver/smoke showing on her fur, and 0-50% white spotting. Edit: Added paragraphs so this isn’t a wall of text. Lol
Sounds cute! personally I think your oc's easy: cinnamon-gold tabby or chocolate-golden tabby, remove black on the face. alt if you want to keep black on the face but don't mind giving some to paws/tail/ears, a very warm lynx (aka tabby) mink! as for the irl cat, I appreciate the very detailed description! however, it's MUCH more likely I'll be able to give you an accurate answer if you send pictures over to my tumblr (link in every video's desc). I've had a lot of instances of folks describing a cat in a way that's accidentally misleading or I misunderstand part of the desc; if I can see the cat, I can look for important cues & use my own knowledge of what qualifies as what color in order to piece together information :3
is there any way a solid cat could appear both black and brown? (even if genetically theyre just black or just brown), ive seen a few pictures of black cats with a brown underside i think? and they dont appear to be colorpoints.
I've never heard of that happening, never seen a picture of it, & know no genes that cause that. Sometimes, a black cat who sits out in the sunlight a lot can become "tarnished," wherein they're still black but they look kinda brown in the right lighting, but that affects the whole body. Are you perhaps looking for a way to make Spiderleg? I usually just make him tarnished black, but if you wanna get Book Accurate™, I suppose he could be a black/chocolate chimera or something?
@@littlehungrywarrior I'd heard of the tarnishing thing but it'd be really weird to have it only on their underside? Since that's not where the sun usually hits them. And yeah I kinda am looking to make spiderleg but when I searched up brown and black cat some pictures actually came up and got confused lol. Thank you for your time :))
@@jiremm No prob! Even if a cat exclusively laid belly-up in the sun it wouldn't make them look like Spiderleg lol, it'd just mean that when the light hits them just right their tummy is a little lighter. If you have pics of cats whose geno/phenotype you can't identify, feel free to DM me on Tumblr & I'll try to identify them for you!
I'm not sure if you're still interested, but a deficiency in tyrosine can cause "rusting" in black cats! It seems to occur in different areas for different cats, but I saw one where it was just the underbelly and was confirmed to be a deficiency. I'm not sure how a (feral) clan cat would develop this, since they get this amino acid from eating animal proteins, but it could be that either they have a health issue that causes it, or they literally just don't eat enough variety 💀
![Cat Genetics for Writers & Artists part 3: Ginger/Red & Tortoiseshell [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oNKOuTo93ps/mqdefault.jpg)
![Cat Genetics for Writers & Artists part 3: Ginger/Red & Tortoiseshell [CC]](/img/tr.png)
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What is your source on the brown coloration being a result of pheomelanin? I really don't think that's the case. There are chocolate silvers, it does not change with pheomelanin intensity & is more likely just a hue that eumelanin takes under certain genetic circumstances
TYRP1 does not reduce the density of eumelanin. Cinnamons and chocolates don't have less eumelanin, rather the structure of their eumelanin is altered to reflect light differently & thus appear brown. I might try to dm you on tumblr on my computer later so we can compare sources-I tried dming on mobile about the amber thing before and it was bugged & didn't go through.
@@frickfrickkin1723 My source is linked in the desc; I struggled finding anything that went into the mechanics of the color bc most sources only discuss the mutation itself. The quote from my source reads "The wild-type B allele produces normal, black coloration (full production of eumelanin)" - "full production of eumelanin" which I took to mean the other mutations did not produce full eumelanin.
By all means, please, if I'm wrong, correct me! My tumblr DMs are open and if your source checks out I'll pin your comment as a correction. Thank you!
Bringing back haunting memories of miserably failing biology modules (and by "miserably failing" I mean getting less than 80%)
I'm working in a mathematics-heavy field after failing geometry twice & just barely making it thru algebra 1 without ever taking another math class. you're fine lol
Yay! May the algorithm be kind to you ^^
I am SO excited for the rest of this :D super interesting !!
:) as someone who is super interested in genetics and grew up with warrior cats, this is super cool to me. Enjoying these videos!
Someday, I'll make a 'genetically accurate' family tree for my Tiny/Rusty roleswap AU...I have some interesting ideas for how that plot will change and what'll happen >:}
That's so interesting though. May I ask where did you/are you learning about it all ? Is it a specific course, or are those from personnal researches (or even both) ? :0
Additionnally, what color would a ginger tabby, long haired tom and a short haired black cat's kittens potentially be ? I understand if you don't have the time to answer this, so no worries !
And thank you for all the genetics videos. I absolute love them.
Sadly no specific courses, I simply go about reading all the articles I can find! Starting w/breeder websites and then going more in-depth once I have foundational understanding w/peer-reviewed articles. I recc Messybeast for a good comprehensive source.
You should watch the rest of my videos and do that pairing yourself! :) I recc my ginger/tortie video in particular. i'm happy to help w/specific questions if you get stuck/confused but I'm not just going to do all the work for you. you won't learn anything that way!
thank you very much ^^
@@littlehungrywarrior
Thank you ! And I find that way cooler to learn that way.
And I wasn't expecting you to do "all the work". That' not what I meant, which is why I precised if you do not have the time it is not a worry. I am myself quite busy around animals these days hence why I currently do not have the time to myself study the question better _yet,_ and thought as you already know the subject better you may be able to give a quick "rounded up" answer even if not super dupper accurate. I watched all the genetics videos, unfortunately again I do not have the time to sit and focus on stuff I like these days. I absolutely hate having people do "all the work for me" but sometimes it does come in handy when you have to put priorities on other things that are currently more important :) I am planning to learn all those anyway, but having litteraly not even a minute of free time ... welp, you can easily figure its impossible to retain from only watching the video one time. But thank you anyway.
@@anxieteasip Glad to hear you plan on doing it yourself ^^ The ginger/tortie video is pretty short so I hope you're able to find the time to review. to give a "rounded up" answer tho, recall that the O allele (causes ginger) is located on the X chromosome, which females have 2 of and males only have 1 of.
For ease and speed, I recc my video on a no-punnett cheat for figuring out ginger/black-base/tortie genes: th-cam.com/video/ufOxInS_rXc/w-d-xo.html
again, I'm happy to help further if you get stuck in any specific areas/have specific questions ^^
@@littlehungrywarrior
Got it, thank you !
Edit : I just re-read my previous answer, and apologize if I may have sounded rough. I get triggered when people think I' being lazy because I am usually the one doing all the work for everyone and, typically, getting no credits or rewards for it, so I was like "Oh my god not the internet too 😭" 🤚
@@anxieteasip oh no worries at all! it didn't come off as rude, no worries ^^ for my end I apologize if I implied you were lazy, that wasn't my intention.
Woo! Next video!
I’m here both trying to figure out how to make one of my Warrior Cats OC’s realistic(Her name is Lightingdusk, her current design is a diluted yellow colour with sandy brown stripes, with black legs, ears, tail tip and snout, with a lighter black for her paws, and some lighter black on her snout too. As you can see unrealistic.) and figuring out what fur genetics my actual pet cat Millie has.
She is a short hair spotted tabby I believe(Her stripes are hard to see but they are there and look more like spots than anything, but her legs have the proper tabby stripes on them), her paws to her elbows on her fronts legs, and all of her back legs and underside are white, so she has a lot of the white spotting gene(or whatever the other white gene is called), with some mild brown spotting on the bottom of her paws. Her cheeks, neck and snout are also white, while the bridge of her nose has a white smudge but mostly is the brownish greyish colour of the rest of her fur. She has greenish yellow eyes, a dark rusty nose with a sandy brown spot below her nose on the white.
Millie has sandy brown eye markings too. Her fur is like a greyish brownish colour, don’t even know how to describe it and she has pink toe beans despite her nose being that rusty colour. Fairly certain her mom was a short hair calico with no white spotting, didn’t get a good look at her when I first got Millie in 2019(Before the quarantines hit.), but her remaining sister had a calico pelt with some minor white spotting(At least I think she had white spotting too).
TLDR: I think Millie may be a short hair black or cinnamon spotted tabby, with the silver/smoke showing on her fur, and 0-50% white spotting.
Edit: Added paragraphs so this isn’t a wall of text. Lol
Sounds cute!
personally I think your oc's easy: cinnamon-gold tabby or chocolate-golden tabby, remove black on the face. alt if you want to keep black on the face but don't mind giving some to paws/tail/ears, a very warm lynx (aka tabby) mink!
as for the irl cat, I appreciate the very detailed description! however, it's MUCH more likely I'll be able to give you an accurate answer if you send pictures over to my tumblr (link in every video's desc). I've had a lot of instances of folks describing a cat in a way that's accidentally misleading or I misunderstand part of the desc; if I can see the cat, I can look for important cues & use my own knowledge of what qualifies as what color in order to piece together information :3
@@littlehungrywarriorI have a Tumblr I just never use it, so I hopefully sent you some images on Tumblr of my cat correctly. Lol
is there any way a solid cat could appear both black and brown? (even if genetically theyre just black or just brown), ive seen a few pictures of black cats with a brown underside i think? and they dont appear to be colorpoints.
I've never heard of that happening, never seen a picture of it, & know no genes that cause that. Sometimes, a black cat who sits out in the sunlight a lot can become "tarnished," wherein they're still black but they look kinda brown in the right lighting, but that affects the whole body.
Are you perhaps looking for a way to make Spiderleg? I usually just make him tarnished black, but if you wanna get Book Accurate™, I suppose he could be a black/chocolate chimera or something?
@@littlehungrywarrior I'd heard of the tarnishing thing but it'd be really weird to have it only on their underside? Since that's not where the sun usually hits them. And yeah I kinda am looking to make spiderleg but when I searched up brown and black cat some pictures actually came up and got confused lol. Thank you for your time :))
@@jiremm No prob! Even if a cat exclusively laid belly-up in the sun it wouldn't make them look like Spiderleg lol, it'd just mean that when the light hits them just right their tummy is a little lighter. If you have pics of cats whose geno/phenotype you can't identify, feel free to DM me on Tumblr & I'll try to identify them for you!
could it be a lighter undercoat?
I'm not sure if you're still interested, but a deficiency in tyrosine can cause "rusting" in black cats! It seems to occur in different areas for different cats, but I saw one where it was just the underbelly and was confirmed to be a deficiency.
I'm not sure how a (feral) clan cat would develop this, since they get this amino acid from eating animal proteins, but it could be that either they have a health issue that causes it, or they literally just don't eat enough variety 💀
Oooo more punnet squares. Mmm.
1. 25% Homozygous black. 25% Homozygous chocolate. 50% Black heterozygotes.
2. 25% Homozygous black. 50% Heterozygous black. 25% Homozygous cinnamon.
3. 25% Homozygous cinnamon. 25% Heterozygous Chocolate (bb¹). 25% Heterozygous Black (Bb) 25% Heterozygous Black (Bb¹)
Love these vids btw!!
very informative b
thank u baaaaabe
This is very nice.
Wohoo! Very cool
Guys need help here what happen if female is lilac bb/dd male cinnamon b1b1 Dd kittens will be?
try drawing some punnett squares! one for the B locus and one for the D locus :) you won't learn if you don't practice!
So does that mean SOMETIMES (rarely) there's a chance i can found a brown cat? :D
Yep! google "chocolate cat" or watch my video on Black/chocolate/cinnamon in cats :3