I just came across this video after watching some HVAC stuff. This is amazing information. I don't know why I never thought about the wall draft air affecting the thermostat. This video is gold. Thank you for conducting these test and providing true facts. Well done and I will be trying one of these methods as I just recently installed a new thermostat.
So true, it's very frustrating not to know the precise temperature in my house. I had m6 suspicions that they're not accurate. It's good to know that the average homeowner can effectively shield the thermostat from cold or hot walls to get more precise reading. Thank you for sharing!
Honestly, I was surprised how the Sensi thermostat calculated the temperature. It was the closest of all. Even in cold and hot walls. Took it really well.
They are all over the place… my regular mercury thermostat was way off in the summer. My wife took pictures of it and it turned out it was off by some 20F. My son installed a new digital thermostat and it didn’t help. Latter in the afternoon it was off nearly 24-25F. Than we figured that the air from the attic leaked into the wall and closer to the ceiling it was nearly 150 degrees. We had to put insulation into the wall and that solved the issue.
Good video. I'm going to go ahead and buy some cling wrap for the gasket but not sure if I'm ready to do the bag trick as that's pretty much irreversible unless I cut a hole in my wall
A small sheet of closed cell foam and or reflectix/mylar bubble wrap is a good alternative behind Tstat for insulation. Not as readily available to many but can be found. Sticks out more but will isolate Tstat from wall well.
Great idea! HVAC technicians usually use Cork tape. But it's messy and looks ugly leaving black marks all over the place. You are right, the point is that anything can be used to prevent air movement between the wall and the thermostat. The team came up with the cling wrap idea because everyone has it in their kitchen.
The wall trick is clever but common guys, newer thermostats come with sensors that can be programmed to use average the temperature of all sensors or only use the sensors in the occupied rooms. I have an Ecobee and i have it set to disregard its main sensor and only use the room sensors. Pretty sure the nests can do the same thing. I'm interested to learn how accurate those room sensors add ons are, Not the main unit.
I believe the statement was made that all the thermostats could be calibrated / adjusted for readings. I know at least the Nest thermostat has no adjustment to readings. The Ecobee does. Also, thermostats such as Nest and Ecobee can have their temperature swayed by how long the display is on. I know since I have both. Not sure of the others. Years ago I had a Honeywell LCD that had the option to keep the backlight on low level and it would throw off the reading by a degree or two.
Before making the change starting at 13:26 (foam in the wall), I urge you to verify that the area between the studs is NOT used for return air. Blocking this flow could alter the temperature in the room that this "duct" is attached to.
The main idea is to seal the wall so that air from the wall cavity does not leak onto the thermostat. “As mentioned above, a low volume of air was circulated in the wall cavity. The team did it in a way that it didn’t affect the air temperature in the studio. The cured foam wasn’t blocking the air circulation at all. Please see the IR photo at the end of the video. It’s clearly visible that the foam behind the wall remained at room temperature (bright orange color), while the surface of the wall was blue, representing a cold wall surface." (team member)
Good question! We did but we decided not include that part for better TH-cam retention. The video was already too long. The foam method works the best for sure. If you want to try it, make sure you make 1'' cut on the bag that goes into the wall cavity. That will let air pressure escape and the foam can properly expand behind the wall.
I've got a 2x4 or 2x6 behind my thermostats, so don't think the expanding foam would do a ton. But would be interesting to see how the plastic wrap or other insulating material could work.
In order to get more accurate readings, the air inside the wall cavity should be shielded from the thermostat to prevent air movement. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect etc... HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc..
@@Warp2090not sure exactly what you mean by "smart thermostat", but my home requires them so that my temperature automations run the way I want them to. I will add that my thermostat doesn't have Internet connectivity, but is all local on a ZWave network.
Following that cabin temperature sensor idea, if I have remote sensors for my Nest, would it be a good idea to mount them to the return grill of a bedroom, for example? That return duct pulling the air would move air from the bedroom over the sensor and then provide a more accurate reading? Would the speed at which air travels over the sensor throw it off at all?
Air movement will certainly not throw off the reading of the remote sensor. You can always get the remote sensor for your Nest thermostat and place it in a spot where you think it can get a good accurate reading. Those sensors can help.
@@GWAC555 Yeah, I have a sensor already and it currently sits on top of a dresser. I was wondering if mounting it to the face of a return grill would increase its accuracy due to higher volume of air flowing around it compared to sitting on a dresser.
@@bosoares If you are mounting it to a wall and that wall's temp varies or is different from room temp, your remote temp sensor may help with the HVAC is on but will then cycle w/ i.e. be affected by the wall temp when the HVAC cycles off. Sitting it on your dresser is probably better as long as it is not in direct sunlight. Disclaimer, not a thermodynamics expert, that just what I'm guessing would happen.
Thanks for sharing, and I found the information interesting, and I like what you set out to accomplish but you lost your way in the middle. Suggestion: It would have been better if you were consistent with your testing method. The whole time you’re comparing multiple thermostats on the same wall, but then t the end you do you final comparison using a different wall,only one thermostat and the thermostat you used was different then the test thermostats. Additionally you added an extra sensor that wasn’t apart of the original testing.
We are unclear what you mean by "sensor". We used 2 psychrometers as reference. It would be impractical to test the foam method using the original wall that was employed for testing the gaskets on those 8 thermostats, as the wall cavity was hosting thermostat wires. (team member)
My thermostat is in my bedroom and being an ecobee, having the ceiling fan on messes with the algorithm that accounts for the heat it produces. The main reading is always off so I have to set it to ignore the main thermostat and use the room sensors.
I guess As long as the temperature in my home feels good to me, I really don’t care what the number on my thermostat says….the idea that the number on the thermostat is off by several degrees compared to another more accurate measuring device doesn’t really change my perception of the air temperature in my home. I just don’t see the need to go through all the effort to make the number on the thermostat match the number on another measurement tool……
You may have missed the point of this video. It's title states " Your thermostat is costing you a fortune". Meaning if you're thermostat is reading high in the summer or low in the winter. It will cause your HVAC to run more, causing your to spend more money to make it to the "feels good to me" temperature of your home.
@@OrngRubberDuckyNo it won’t. Ignore the number and think of it like a dial in an old car. Turn it to blue if the house feels hot and red if you feel cold. The number doesn’t matter one bit.
@@OrngRubberDucky My wife will turn it up or down based on how she feels, stopping her from kicking the unit on will save me money not what it reads. I agree with the above poster.
While that may be true, when people have this airflow behind the wall issue, the temperature reading can swing wildly. That causes the indoor temperature to go off in either direction so you’ll have to be constantly manually adjusting it since it has no idea what the actual indoor temperature is.
There are numbers of reasons why thermostats should be shielded from the wall. Even thermostat manufactures tell you under troubleshooting sections that the wall should be sealed to prevent air leaking onto the thermostat. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more... HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc.
This is interesting information. In my case however both my Nest Learning Thermostats are on internal walls so not so affected by wall temps. At least I would assume.
I’ve been and HVAC technician for a long time. I’ve have seen some hack jobs on the field but I’ve never seen any thermostat mounted on exterior walls in my entire life. I would suggest reading the description below. Hot and cold interior wall effect is a real phenomenon and affects large percentage of homes especially older homes. The guys used exaggeration to prove this phenomenon but if the thermostat is only off by one degree it could mean 3-4% increase on the home owner’s energy bill. HVAC companies in U.S. deal with this issue quite frequently. (staff member)
Not an AC tech, so maybe I'm wrong... Isn't this a moot point for most homes? Every house I've lived in puts the thermostat on an interior wall. Walls should already have minimal airflow, unless you're at the return space. As someone else pointed out, a return space should BETTER reflect the air temp in your home. I do get that the temp of the wall can make a difference. They'll retain the heat/cold longer than the air - even more so if it's a brick, tile, concrete, etc wall. That's more nuanced though. Couple that with the fact the temp can vary by room - even more so by floor. A gasket/spacer is a good idea for some people, but just not necessary for everyone. Oh! And instead of telling viewers to unwire their thermostat and risk connecting it wrong, just cut a slit halfway through the gasket and slip it on. Since you're making 2 pieces, change which side each slit is coming from.
As an HVAC technician with years of experience, I’ve never encountered a thermostat mounted on an exterior wall. First and foremost, all thermostats are designed with temperature adjustment features for a specific reason. Additionally, thermostat manufacturers advise in their troubleshooting guidelines that the wall should be sealed around the thermostat to prevent air movement. Not all but many homes experience wall cavity temperature variations due to several factors, such as inadequate insulation, electrical wiring, wind washing effects, or simply being older structures. Cold or hot attic air can enter the wall cavity. HVAC companies in the U.S. often address these issues and seal the wall behind the thermostat. The team used exaggeration to illustrate how the temperature of a wall can affect thermostat accuracy. As Chris pointed out, if the wall temperature skews the thermostat by just one degree, it could lead to a 3-4% increase in energy bills. Since people perceive temperature differently, they may not accurately gauge the exact temperature, which is why thermometers are essential. Enhancing temperature accuracy ultimately leads to better performance and efficiency of HVAC systems.
@@GWAC555 I'm not sure where you are but in Florida this is absolutely necessary. Home builders here don't do anything to protect the thermostat from cavity temperature fluctuations and I've even seen thermostats installed directly below vents. Crazy!
@@GWAC555 in my house, I get more variance from the bathroom door across from the thermostat being left open. I ended up covering the vent there so it's not an issue. That, and heat from the Ring security system mounted just below the thermostat. Our church is an old school building. The cinder block walls hold the temp stored over the days with the system turned off. A door or window left open too long can affect humidity so it "feels" hotter or colder than it is. In the end, set the thermostat where it feels most comfortable. Keep air moving, which can help it feel cooler than it actually is. Sure, insulatating the thermostat can sway the reading by a deg or two, but you proved in the video that an un-calibrated thermostat will do that too. Just not seeing draft walls as a big nation-wide concern. Something to consider, I guess.
And most homes don't have that huge hole behind the thermostat. Every home/business I've ever pulled a thermostat off just has a small hole in the drywall just enough for the wire to pass through. And usually it's been sealed with mud. I agree, this isn't needed for most people. But I can see how poorly built homes, it would be beneficial. And all this does is address the accuracy of the thermostat. Nobody really sets the temperature setting to be accurate. They set it to be comfortable. They will still cool/heat the home to the same temperature "feeling"; but the display and setting might just a few degrees different. If they adjust the setting to the same feeling, the unit will still be told to run the same amount. Sealing windows, doors, wall sill plates, penetrations, etc will have a much greater savings effect.
Most homes unfortunately do have a minimum 1''x1'' or in most cases 1.5''x1x1.5'' drywall opening behind the thermostat. One feeds the wire into the wall from the attic and the other one is trying to catch it and pull it through the thermostat wire opening. They need a minimum of 1''x1'' opening behind the thermostat in order to catch the wire with a wire hook. When the guys do rough-in, they have to drill through the 2x4 or 2x6 walls from the attic to pull the thermostat wire in. If they don't seal that 1'' diameter hole, hot or cold air from the attic will enter the wall cavity.
I figured this out myself. Thermostat needs to state the right temperature. I used gummy tape to make the seal out of. Ever since my furnace is optimized.
@@GWAC555 so just doing the cling wrap is sufficient and the other is diminishing return? I have leftover bubble insulation would that work fine as well?
What about silicone putty instead of clingwrap? Definitely more insulative, dielectric, won't trap moisture between its layers over time and you shouldn't need to disconnect wiring
Each human experiences and feels temperature differently. That’s a scientific fact. Therefore, humans can NOT sense and tell what the real temperature is. That’s why everyone has a thermometer including yourself. “it’s the humans that determine the temp. Not the thermostat” Do you think it’s a good idea to design thermostats without temperature reading? (team member)
@@GWAC555 Point is, it doesn't matter how accurate the sensor reads. The reading is an arbitrary number. You can either feel hot, cold, or comfortable. And those three feelings are a bigger factor on what the temperature is adjusted to, than what is the correct temperature. If the human inside wants the temperature to be "feel like" 72 degrees. It doesn't matter if the thermostat reads 68 degrees or 78 degrees. The human will set the thermostat to whatever temp it needs to be to create the 72 degree feeling. If the thermostat becomes 2-3 degrees more accurate one way or the other. The human will adjust the thermostat to compensate for that change. Because their body is looking for that specific temperature feeling. Not based on a number, it's based on a feeling. Meaning, the HVAC system will work just as hard as it was doing prior to this modification. Because the human inside the building just adjusts the temperature afterwards to give them the same air temp feeling as what they are comfortable with. Another factor, when I'm the only occupant in a space. And I'm sick. I set the thermostat to ridiculous settings to make myself comfortable. Because I'm not feeling well and that adjustment helps me feel better. This is totally wasteful, and I know it. But if you feel miserable, and something helps, you're willing to do it, even if it's costing you money. A more accurate thermostat isn't going to prevent me (or others) to adjust the setting to something that makes them feel better. Now if this modification somehow plays a physiological effect on the person. Say someone is is not willing to drop the temp below 71 in the summer because that's too cold in their mind. And this new, more accurate temp reading causes them not to go as low (cooling) or as high (heating). Then yes, it will make a energy savings difference. But most people aren't going to change their mind about what is comfortable. They will just realize, comfortable is actually 2-3 degrees different than they originally perceived it to be. For businesses, that would continue to use the same setting, because they have to accommodate many people. It would definitely help there. But in a personal home, the homeowner, renter is most likely going to set it to what feels comfortable, no matter what number that may be. I totally get the fact about making things as accurate as you possible can. And agree it should be accurate. But accuracy isn't going to save everyone money, when the adjustment is most often set based on feelings. My problem with this, is presenting it in a manner that everyone should do this, because it WILL save you "a fortune", when realistically, it won't make a dent. Also the (4K) video quality was placed in a specific spot of the video title, to play a mind trick to people to think of it as a money reference. Normally that is placed at the very end. Not right after mentioning money, and 4K can mean video quality or an amount of money. "Do you think it’s a good idea to design thermostats without temperature reading? (team member)" Vehicles done it for many many years and those work extremely well. Not saying it should be removed. But it doesn't have to be there, and it doesn't really matter what the number actually is to most people.
@@GWAC555 i love how the first sentence you say each human feels temperature different. Then proceed to give a synopsis on why we need thermostats. My point is. The thermostat could be off by 10 degrees. Doesn’t mean you’ll use less or more energy because “it’s the humans that determine the temp” so you get it now? If I come over your house and I say it’s cold and you and your family says it’s fine. Does that mean the thermostat is off?
The bigger issue here is if the outside temp changes, and it constantly does, then the thermostat will have to be constantly changed to keep you comfortable. So you end up being either too hot or too cold and you use extra energy. This issue is biggest when the installer have placed you thermostat on an outside wall. Your ideas are ingenious!
@@56ctcongeroutside temps changes. Sun light changes the room temp. I just set it to a number i feel comfortable with. If a certain room is hotter i can turn on a fan. If u live in your house long enough u can understand what temp to set it to due to thermo placement hpw the house feels. People just makings things over complicated.
Please watch this and you can even win that smart thermostat that appeared to be the most accurate in simulated ho wall cavity temperature. th-cam.com/video/xjVqYXLqVzg/w-d-xo.html
Or.... use a thermostat that allows a remote sensor (ie: EcoBee) and just place that sensor in the home somewhere where it will not be affected by wall temperatures, windows, door drafts, etc.
So infuriating. I have an expensive ecobee that I love, but didn’t realize how off it really was because the ambient temperature never seems to match the thermostat reading
Yes. We know for sure that manufacturers are trying to solve this issue and constantly improving temperature accuracy. Someone will come up with the solution.
yeah i was thinking the same, who installs a thermostat on an exterior wall lol and it not like were pumping hot and cold air through an interior wall unless you locate the thermostat near ducting in the wall. all this is going to lead to is a bunch of people spraying foam into the wall and pushing the drywall out when they do too much and it has nowhere to go lol. also you just created a nightmare if the thermostat wire ever needs updating or changing.
@@weldchip No one will ever mount a thermostat in the exterior wall. That's HVAC 101. There are numbers of reasons why thermostats should be shielded from the wall. Even thermostat manufactures tell you under troubleshooting sections that the wall should be sealed to prevent air leaking onto the thermostat. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more... HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc.
No one will ever mount a thermostat in the exterior wall. That's HVAC 101. There are numbers of reasons why thermostats should be shielded from the wall. Even thermostat manufactures tell you under troubleshooting sections that the wall should be sealed to prevent air leaking onto the thermostat. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more... HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc.
@@GWAC555 calking over the hole where the wire comes through the wall is just normal practice, wall cavities should always be sealed, it applies to outlets, switches etc too, most new builds need fire block around all penetrations. the foam with the bag seems unnecessary unless there is a really large hole there. i have never needed to make a hole bigger than 1/2inch to get a wire through.
Why not just buy a remote temperature sensor and assigned it on the app of the thermostat to read the temperature only from the remote sensor, Then placed it away from the wall and air vents? Now days most new thermostat have those remote temperature sensors.
Why could you just not seal the hole where the thermostat cable comes out and make stand-offs for the the thermostat. So, now it will no longer be in contact will the wall. That small air gap would do the same thing.
My thermostat is mounted on the return duct near the grills, so it sees the house air temp on the way to the return and the wall temp should we neutral too.
the measures used here feel extreme and defeat the big advantage of a smart thermostat: remote sensors. I place them on open surfaces near where i sleep and watch tv and always have a consistent feel for a given set temperature.
The symptom your describing with thermostat picking up additional heat is most common on exterior walls. If your hous real shitty you can also pick up heat from the attic. I live in Florida and its rare. What are your HVAC credentials? Are you even a tech?? Or just pumping out BS energy improvement videos on TH-cam? I am honestly curious.
All of our team members are HVAC technicians working for licensed HVAC companies. In order to get more accurate readings, the air inside the wall cavity should be shielded from the thermostat to prevent air movement. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more... HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc..
We only trimmed the gasket on the Ecobee and we left the rest of the gaskets behind the thermostats for visual. We would recommend those gaskets to be trimmed by scissors or razors
I just came across this video after watching some HVAC stuff. This is amazing information. I don't know why I never thought about the wall draft air affecting the thermostat. This video is gold. Thank you for conducting these test and providing true facts. Well done and I will be trying one of these methods as I just recently installed a new thermostat.
Glad it was helpful!
That’s an impressive video. They really know what they are doing and they don’t advertise anything either.
So true, it's very frustrating not to know the precise temperature in my house. I had m6 suspicions that they're not accurate. It's good to know that the average homeowner can effectively shield the thermostat from cold or hot walls to get more precise reading. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for watching!
Honestly, I was surprised how the Sensi thermostat calculated the temperature. It was the closest of all. Even in cold and hot walls. Took it really well.
They are all over the place… my regular mercury thermostat was way off in the summer. My wife took pictures of it and it turned out it was off by some 20F. My son installed a new digital thermostat and it didn’t help. Latter in the afternoon it was off nearly 24-25F. Than we figured that the air from the attic leaked into the wall and closer to the ceiling it was nearly 150 degrees. We had to put insulation into the wall and that solved the issue.
Mercury thermostats are great and the most reliable
Seal your attic, seal your floor, and seal your ducts, then insulate. don’t pretend that making your thermostat comfortable will make you comfortable.
Good video. I'm going to go ahead and buy some cling wrap for the gasket but not sure if I'm ready to do the bag trick as that's pretty much irreversible unless I cut a hole in my wall
A small sheet of closed cell foam and or reflectix/mylar bubble wrap is a good alternative behind Tstat for insulation. Not as readily available to many but can be found. Sticks out more but will isolate Tstat from wall well.
Great idea! HVAC technicians usually use Cork tape.
But it's messy and looks ugly leaving black marks all over the place. You are right, the point is that anything can be used to prevent air movement between the wall and the thermostat. The team came up with the cling wrap idea because everyone has it in their kitchen.
Folding some cling wrap now. Thanks for the tip.
Glad to help
The wall trick is clever but common guys, newer thermostats come with sensors that can be programmed to use average the temperature of all sensors or only use the sensors in the occupied rooms. I have an Ecobee and i have it set to disregard its main sensor and only use the room sensors. Pretty sure the nests can do the same thing. I'm interested to learn how accurate those room sensors add ons are, Not the main unit.
I believe the statement was made that all the thermostats could be calibrated / adjusted for readings. I know at least the Nest thermostat has no adjustment to readings. The Ecobee does. Also, thermostats such as Nest and Ecobee can have their temperature swayed by how long the display is on. I know since I have both. Not sure of the others. Years ago I had a Honeywell LCD that had the option to keep the backlight on low level and it would throw off the reading by a degree or two.
Yes! Great observations.
0:49 Great info overall! But the best part (for me) is how none of their microphones are plugged in 😂😂😂.
Before making the change starting at 13:26 (foam in the wall), I urge you to verify that the area between the studs is NOT used for return air. Blocking this flow could alter the temperature in the room that this "duct" is attached to.
The main idea is to seal the wall so that air from the wall cavity does not leak onto the thermostat.
“As mentioned above, a low volume of air was circulated in the wall cavity. The team did it in a way that it didn’t affect the air temperature in the studio. The cured foam wasn’t blocking the air circulation at all. Please see the IR photo at the end of the video. It’s clearly visible that the foam behind the wall remained at room temperature (bright orange color), while the surface of the wall was blue, representing a cold wall surface." (team member)
Yes! How about mounting the remote sensor for the ecobee in the hallway?
Or get a remote one and place it where you need it...
Why did you not do a heat test after spray foaming the wall to compare as was done earlier in the video???
Good question! We did but we decided not include that part for better TH-cam retention. The video was already too long. The foam method works the best for sure. If you want to try it, make sure you make 1'' cut on the bag that goes into the wall cavity. That will let air pressure escape and the foam can properly expand behind the wall.
I've got a 2x4 or 2x6 behind my thermostats, so don't think the expanding foam would do a ton. But would be interesting to see how the plastic wrap or other insulating material could work.
In order to get more accurate readings, the air inside the wall cavity should be shielded from the thermostat to prevent air movement. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect etc...
HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc..
It looks like the Nest learning thermostat was off by 4F but it read the closest to room temperature after cooling and heating. Interesting
Never get a smart thermostat
@@Warp2090not sure exactly what you mean by "smart thermostat", but my home requires them so that my temperature automations run the way I want them to. I will add that my thermostat doesn't have Internet connectivity, but is all local on a ZWave network.
Following that cabin temperature sensor idea, if I have remote sensors for my Nest, would it be a good idea to mount them to the return grill of a bedroom, for example? That return duct pulling the air would move air from the bedroom over the sensor and then provide a more accurate reading? Would the speed at which air travels over the sensor throw it off at all?
Air movement will certainly not throw off the reading of the remote sensor. You can always get the remote sensor for your Nest thermostat and place it in a spot where you think it can get a good accurate reading. Those sensors can help.
@@GWAC555 Yeah, I have a sensor already and it currently sits on top of a dresser. I was wondering if mounting it to the face of a return grill would increase its accuracy due to higher volume of air flowing around it compared to sitting on a dresser.
It might. But it depends… we can only recommend buying a psychrometer and use it as a reference to find the best possible position to the sensor.
@@bosoares If you are mounting it to a wall and that wall's temp varies or is different from room temp, your remote temp sensor may help with the HVAC is on but will then cycle w/ i.e. be affected by the wall temp when the HVAC cycles off. Sitting it on your dresser is probably better as long as it is not in direct sunlight. Disclaimer, not a thermodynamics expert, that just what I'm guessing would happen.
Thanks for sharing, and I found the information interesting, and I like what you set out to accomplish but you lost your way in the middle. Suggestion:
It would have been better if you were consistent with your testing method. The whole time you’re comparing multiple thermostats on the same wall, but then t the end you do you final comparison using a different wall,only one thermostat and the thermostat you used was different then the test thermostats. Additionally you added an extra sensor that wasn’t apart of the original testing.
We are unclear what you mean by "sensor". We used 2 psychrometers as reference. It would be impractical to test the foam method using the original wall that was employed for testing the gaskets on those 8 thermostats, as the wall cavity was hosting thermostat wires. (team member)
My thermostat is in my bedroom and being an ecobee, having the ceiling fan on messes with the algorithm that accounts for the heat it produces. The main reading is always off so I have to set it to ignore the main thermostat and use the room sensors.
Get a small piece of 1/4 inch foam insulation board to put behind the thermostat..
I guess As long as the temperature in my home feels good to me, I really don’t care what the number on my thermostat says….the idea that the number on the thermostat is off by several degrees compared to another more accurate measuring device doesn’t really change my perception of the air temperature in my home. I just don’t see the need to go through all the effort to make the number on the thermostat match the number on another measurement tool……
You may have missed the point of this video. It's title states " Your thermostat is costing you a fortune". Meaning if you're thermostat is reading high in the summer or low in the winter. It will cause your HVAC to run more, causing your to spend more money to make it to the "feels good to me" temperature of your home.
@@OrngRubberDuckyNo it won’t. Ignore the number and think of it like a dial in an old car. Turn it to blue if the house feels hot and red if you feel cold. The number doesn’t matter one bit.
@@OrngRubberDucky My wife will turn it up or down based on how she feels, stopping her from kicking the unit on will save me money not what it reads. I agree with the above poster.
While that may be true, when people have this airflow behind the wall issue, the temperature reading can swing wildly. That causes the indoor temperature to go off in either direction so you’ll have to be constantly manually adjusting it since it has no idea what the actual indoor temperature is.
There are numbers of reasons why thermostats should be shielded from the wall. Even thermostat manufactures tell you under troubleshooting sections that the wall should be sealed to prevent air leaking onto the thermostat. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more...
HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc.
This is interesting information. In my case however both my Nest Learning Thermostats are on internal walls so not so affected by wall temps. At least I would assume.
I’ve been and HVAC technician for a long time. I’ve have seen some hack jobs on the field but I’ve never seen any thermostat mounted on exterior walls in my entire life. I would suggest reading the description below. Hot and cold interior wall effect is a real phenomenon and affects large percentage of homes especially older homes. The guys used exaggeration to prove this phenomenon but if the thermostat is only off by one degree it could mean 3-4% increase on the home owner’s energy bill. HVAC companies in U.S. deal with this issue quite frequently. (staff member)
Not an AC tech, so maybe I'm wrong... Isn't this a moot point for most homes? Every house I've lived in puts the thermostat on an interior wall. Walls should already have minimal airflow, unless you're at the return space. As someone else pointed out, a return space should BETTER reflect the air temp in your home.
I do get that the temp of the wall can make a difference. They'll retain the heat/cold longer than the air - even more so if it's a brick, tile, concrete, etc wall. That's more nuanced though.
Couple that with the fact the temp can vary by room - even more so by floor.
A gasket/spacer is a good idea for some people, but just not necessary for everyone.
Oh! And instead of telling viewers to unwire their thermostat and risk connecting it wrong, just cut a slit halfway through the gasket and slip it on. Since you're making 2 pieces, change which side each slit is coming from.
As an HVAC technician with years of experience, I’ve never encountered a thermostat mounted on an exterior wall. First and foremost, all thermostats are designed with temperature adjustment features for a specific reason. Additionally, thermostat manufacturers advise in their troubleshooting guidelines that the wall should be sealed around the thermostat to prevent air movement. Not all but many homes experience wall cavity temperature variations due to several factors, such as inadequate insulation, electrical wiring, wind washing effects, or simply being older structures. Cold or hot attic air can enter the wall cavity. HVAC companies in the U.S. often address these issues and seal the wall behind the thermostat.
The team used exaggeration to illustrate how the temperature of a wall can affect thermostat accuracy. As Chris pointed out, if the wall temperature skews the thermostat by just one degree, it could lead to a 3-4% increase in energy bills. Since people perceive temperature differently, they may not accurately gauge the exact temperature, which is why thermometers are essential. Enhancing temperature accuracy ultimately leads to better performance and efficiency of HVAC systems.
@@GWAC555 I'm not sure where you are but in Florida this is absolutely necessary. Home builders here don't do anything to protect the thermostat from cavity temperature fluctuations and I've even seen thermostats installed directly below vents. Crazy!
@@GWAC555 in my house, I get more variance from the bathroom door across from the thermostat being left open. I ended up covering the vent there so it's not an issue.
That, and heat from the Ring security system mounted just below the thermostat.
Our church is an old school building. The cinder block walls hold the temp stored over the days with the system turned off.
A door or window left open too long can affect humidity so it "feels" hotter or colder than it is.
In the end, set the thermostat where it feels most comfortable. Keep air moving, which can help it feel cooler than it actually is. Sure, insulatating the thermostat can sway the reading by a deg or two, but you proved in the video that an un-calibrated thermostat will do that too.
Just not seeing draft walls as a big nation-wide concern. Something to consider, I guess.
And most homes don't have that huge hole behind the thermostat. Every home/business I've ever pulled a thermostat off just has a small hole in the drywall just enough for the wire to pass through. And usually it's been sealed with mud. I agree, this isn't needed for most people. But I can see how poorly built homes, it would be beneficial. And all this does is address the accuracy of the thermostat. Nobody really sets the temperature setting to be accurate. They set it to be comfortable. They will still cool/heat the home to the same temperature "feeling"; but the display and setting might just a few degrees different. If they adjust the setting to the same feeling, the unit will still be told to run the same amount. Sealing windows, doors, wall sill plates, penetrations, etc will have a much greater savings effect.
Most homes unfortunately do have a minimum 1''x1'' or in most cases 1.5''x1x1.5'' drywall opening behind the thermostat. One feeds the wire into the wall from the attic and the other one is trying to catch it and pull it through the thermostat wire opening. They need a minimum of 1''x1'' opening behind the thermostat in order to catch the wire with a wire hook. When the guys do rough-in, they have to drill through the 2x4 or 2x6 walls from the attic to pull the thermostat wire in. If they don't seal that 1'' diameter hole, hot or cold air from the attic will enter the wall cavity.
I figured this out myself. Thermostat needs to state the right temperature. I used gummy tape to make the seal out of. Ever since my furnace is optimized.
very informative and entertaining
Glad you enjoyed it
Is it the cold wall air that goes through to thermostat that causes false temperature readings?
YES!
Does it make sense to do both?
It could but the clingwrap works just fine.
@@GWAC555 so just doing the cling wrap is sufficient and the other is diminishing return? I have leftover bubble insulation would that work fine as well?
What about silicone putty instead of clingwrap? Definitely more insulative, dielectric, won't trap moisture between its layers over time and you shouldn't need to disconnect wiring
I'm skeptical, and I'd need to see some real world examples of hot or cold walls skewing temperature readings enough to cost "a fortune"
It’s the humans that determine the temp. Not the thermostat.
Each human experiences and feels temperature differently. That’s a scientific fact. Therefore, humans
can NOT sense and tell what the real temperature is. That’s why everyone has a thermometer including yourself.
“it’s the humans that determine the temp. Not the thermostat”
Do you think it’s a good idea to design thermostats without temperature reading? (team member)
@@GWAC555 Point is, it doesn't matter how accurate the sensor reads. The reading is an arbitrary number. You can either feel hot, cold, or comfortable. And those three feelings are a bigger factor on what the temperature is adjusted to, than what is the correct temperature. If the human inside wants the temperature to be "feel like" 72 degrees. It doesn't matter if the thermostat reads 68 degrees or 78 degrees. The human will set the thermostat to whatever temp it needs to be to create the 72 degree feeling. If the thermostat becomes 2-3 degrees more accurate one way or the other. The human will adjust the thermostat to compensate for that change. Because their body is looking for that specific temperature feeling. Not based on a number, it's based on a feeling. Meaning, the HVAC system will work just as hard as it was doing prior to this modification. Because the human inside the building just adjusts the temperature afterwards to give them the same air temp feeling as what they are comfortable with.
Another factor, when I'm the only occupant in a space. And I'm sick. I set the thermostat to ridiculous settings to make myself comfortable. Because I'm not feeling well and that adjustment helps me feel better. This is totally wasteful, and I know it. But if you feel miserable, and something helps, you're willing to do it, even if it's costing you money. A more accurate thermostat isn't going to prevent me (or others) to adjust the setting to something that makes them feel better.
Now if this modification somehow plays a physiological effect on the person. Say someone is is not willing to drop the temp below 71 in the summer because that's too cold in their mind. And this new, more accurate temp reading causes them not to go as low (cooling) or as high (heating). Then yes, it will make a energy savings difference. But most people aren't going to change their mind about what is comfortable. They will just realize, comfortable is actually 2-3 degrees different than they originally perceived it to be.
For businesses, that would continue to use the same setting, because they have to accommodate many people. It would definitely help there. But in a personal home, the homeowner, renter is most likely going to set it to what feels comfortable, no matter what number that may be.
I totally get the fact about making things as accurate as you possible can. And agree it should be accurate. But accuracy isn't going to save everyone money, when the adjustment is most often set based on feelings. My problem with this, is presenting it in a manner that everyone should do this, because it WILL save you "a fortune", when realistically, it won't make a dent. Also the (4K) video quality was placed in a specific spot of the video title, to play a mind trick to people to think of it as a money reference. Normally that is placed at the very end. Not right after mentioning money, and 4K can mean video quality or an amount of money.
"Do you think it’s a good idea to design thermostats without temperature reading? (team member)"
Vehicles done it for many many years and those work extremely well. Not saying it should be removed. But it doesn't have to be there, and it doesn't really matter what the number actually is to most people.
@@GWAC555 i love how the first sentence you say each human feels temperature different. Then proceed to give a synopsis on why we need thermostats. My point is. The thermostat could be off by 10 degrees. Doesn’t mean you’ll use less or more energy because “it’s the humans that determine the temp” so you get it now? If I come over your house and I say it’s cold and you and your family says it’s fine. Does that mean the thermostat is off?
The bigger issue here is if the outside temp changes, and it constantly does, then the thermostat will have to be constantly changed to keep you comfortable. So you end up being either too hot or too cold and you use extra energy. This issue is biggest when the installer have placed you thermostat on an outside wall. Your ideas are ingenious!
@@56ctcongeroutside temps changes. Sun light changes the room temp. I just set it to a number i feel comfortable with. If a certain room is hotter i can turn on a fan. If u live in your house long enough u can understand what temp to set it to due to thermo placement hpw the house feels. People just makings things over complicated.
I use nest remote sensors and each nest uses those for temp readings and not the nest device.
What are the best thermostats to use?
Please watch this and you can even win that smart thermostat that appeared to be the most accurate in simulated ho wall cavity temperature. th-cam.com/video/xjVqYXLqVzg/w-d-xo.html
great educational video!! music + speech = hard to understand...
Like for team Sensi!
It held up really well to our surprise. The performance of it was impressive.
Really curious what the thermostat wiring replacement looks like in five to ten years after putting that plastic bag in.
This would only matter if you had thermostats in each room.
Or.... use a thermostat that allows a remote sensor (ie: EcoBee) and just place that sensor in the home somewhere where it will not be affected by wall temperatures, windows, door drafts, etc.
So infuriating. I have an expensive ecobee that I love, but didn’t realize how off it really was because the ambient temperature never seems to match the thermostat reading
You can always use the clingwrap method.
How come the analog ones seem to last way longer than the digital ones? Also smart thermostats are a really bad idea. Theres lots of reasons why
$1000 for a Lennox thermostat? I looked it up. who buys an expensive thermostat like this?
They are mostly used for high efficiency, variable capacity communicating systems.
It's part of the install. Lennox will charge you for it as that is the only one they will install
That must be why Lennox stock is 577 a share
Contractors throw it into your financing you'll never see it in the itemized recipe. And they won't tell you're buying.
A nut
How much air are you guys circulating?
''Low volume'' however, as stated, the team members used exaggeration to demonstrate the phenomenon
So put the thermostat in the center hall, with the least windows. And no direct sun
Just ignore the thermostat temperature sensor and use only the remote sensors. ECOBEE
This could be all resolved by just manufactures placing the temperature gauge as an external antenna on the thermostat.
Yes. We know for sure that manufacturers are trying to solve this issue and constantly improving temperature accuracy. Someone will come up with the solution.
Raising and lowering my thermostat is something I would never do
I like it 5 feet above the floor.
Does it matter what it reads
What is comfortable matters 🤔
If you ensure thermostat is installed on an interior wall, this helps avoid most issues with hot/cold (exterior) wall cavities.
yeah i was thinking the same, who installs a thermostat on an exterior wall lol and it not like were pumping hot and cold air through an interior wall unless you locate the thermostat near ducting in the wall. all this is going to lead to is a bunch of people spraying foam into the wall and pushing the drywall out when they do too much and it has nowhere to go lol. also you just created a nightmare if the thermostat wire ever needs updating or changing.
@@weldchip No one will ever mount a thermostat in the exterior wall. That's HVAC 101. There are numbers of reasons why thermostats should be shielded from the wall. Even thermostat manufactures tell you under troubleshooting sections that the wall should be sealed to prevent air leaking onto the thermostat. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more...
HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc.
No one will ever mount a thermostat in the exterior wall. That's HVAC 101. There are numbers of reasons why thermostats should be shielded from the wall. Even thermostat manufactures tell you under troubleshooting sections that the wall should be sealed to prevent air leaking onto the thermostat. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more...
HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc.
@@GWAC555 calking over the hole where the wire comes through the wall is just normal practice, wall cavities should always be sealed, it applies to outlets, switches etc too, most new builds need fire block around all penetrations. the foam with the bag seems unnecessary unless there is a really large hole there. i have never needed to make a hole bigger than 1/2inch to get a wire through.
Digital Psychomotor $85.00? YIKES!
Why not just buy a remote temperature sensor and assigned it on the app of the thermostat to read the temperature only from the remote sensor, Then placed it away from the wall and air vents? Now days most new thermostat have those remote temperature sensors.
Why could you just not seal the hole where the thermostat cable comes out and make stand-offs for the the thermostat. So, now it will no longer be in contact will the wall. That small air gap would do the same thing.
That would work, however this is much more simple.
My thermostat is mounted on the return duct near the grills, so it sees the house air temp on the way to the return and the wall temp should we neutral too.
The nest thermostats kinda suck.
the measures used here feel extreme and defeat the big advantage of a smart thermostat: remote sensors. I place them on open surfaces near where i sleep and watch tv and always have a consistent feel for a given set temperature.
The symptom your describing with thermostat picking up additional heat is most common on exterior walls.
If your hous real shitty you can also pick up heat from the attic. I live in Florida and its rare.
What are your HVAC credentials? Are you even a tech?? Or just pumping out BS energy improvement videos on TH-cam?
I am honestly curious.
Curious why you're attacking free advice without any product sales? Try attacking the testing methods if you have a problem.
All of our team members are HVAC technicians working for licensed HVAC companies. In order to get more accurate readings, the air inside the wall cavity should be shielded from the thermostat to prevent air movement. Air movement is mainly caused by temperature differences. Hot air seeks cold air or cold air seeks hot air. Or, by other factor, like Wind Washing Effect and many more...
HVAC companies deal with this issue frequently. They use everything from Cork tape to caulking etc..
Its looks ugly
We only trimmed the gasket on the Ecobee and we left the rest of the gaskets behind the thermostats for visual. We would recommend those gaskets to be trimmed by scissors or razors
People need to stop taking everything for fact from uneducated TH-cam people.
How would "people" verify the education of "TH-cam people"? Wouldn't you also be a YT person?