I live in Florida I was lucky enough to get a contract to do some demolition work on an old farm that was built late 1800'si was also given the responsibility of disposing of all the items and trash in the home and told I could keep anything I found or wanted so the day before I brought in heavy equipment i spent time searching the house found old pots and pans as expected but then I found a cedar chest in the basement tons of old photos from the 20's and 30's then at the very bottom I found a wood box I opened it and inside there was 2 model 8 rifles in 35 rem cal completely covered in grease I still have them and use them to hunt the stocks have the old style brass tacks drove in them the initials J.M then a silver concho is attached to the forearm beautiful weapons that were way ahead of they're time
My great uncle had a Model 81 chambered in .35 Remington, and with a non detachable magazine. It took 6 round stripper clips to load it, and it was given to me this last Christmas as a late inheritance gift. Nobody in my family has ever had an issue with the rifle, and it's still in beautiful shape
That letter from Remington arguing that Model 81s would be ideal for defending against paratrooper assault amuses me greatly because it makes me think of a WWII Red Dawn scenario where somehow Ju-52s & the L2D (Japanese license-built copy of the DC-3) somehow manage to cross the ocean to drop at most a company of troops in the most densely populated parts of the US
The .35 Remington is a beast. My brother in law had a lever action in that caliber and I grew up hunting with it. It’s a super accurate pretty powerful round.
@@johndoe-td2xd Why would you reply to someone's comment about an old caliber/cartridge with "this new cartridge you weren't talking about is a ballistic twin of that old cartridge, there's nothing new under the sun"? Like yeah, that's kind of inherent in the term "ballistic twin"; nobody expects both calibers of a ballistically twinned pair to be just as new as each other.
Nice. The Model 8 was indeed used in limited numbers in WWI. I believe I have read for airplane use before machineguns were mounted. I've always been amused that Kalashnikov seems to have been "inspired" by John Browning's safety on these.
i also remember reading once that he got the idea for the long stroke piston from the m1 garand ( a bunch were sent to russia as aid suring ww2 ) it was on wikipedia in arabic so its probably not a reliable source but the similarity is clear, so the ak 47 is more of an american design than the ar 15 if you think about it since the ar 15 was inspired by the stg and ljungman 42 it just pisses me off that people still dont accept these two facts after everything Ian did about the stg and the ak and the ar and now this
The AR-15 has nothing to do with the Ljungman or StG; it borrows its rotating bolt from the M1941 Johnson rifle and its in line stock from the Johnson LMG, but it is otherwise a novel operating mechanism. The Ljungman uses a fixed piston system, which is considered more of a true direct impingement design, whereas the AR has an internal piston system that pushes the bolt carrier and breech apart to cycle the action. The only things the two guns have in common is that they both use a long gas tube and lack any kind of operating rod. The StG has an ejection port dust cover, and that's about it.
Gene Garren the AR-15 did not borrow the "in line stock" from the Johnson lmg. Johnson lmg didn't even have that. It basically had te action acting as a cheek rest if anything. The practice of putting the action in the STOCK was established by countless designs. Eugene stoner did it to save on weight, since the stock was gonna be plastic/fiberglass, it needed some strengthening structure, so why not just put an extension of the receiver in there? The bolt was "taken" from the Johnson rifle, but a multilug rotating bolt was not the important bit. The important deal was using a barrel extension exclusively as the locking area, for the sake of lightweight(Johnson did it because HIS rifle design was short recoil unlocking, but still made his receiver heavy).
Redneck Operations It depends on what I'd be using the rifle for, but if I wasn't using it as a marksman I would probably buy the .30 Remington version. The rifle has a lot of recoil and .30 Rem (like .30-30) is powerful enough and would make for a better weapon at close range. If a smaller caliber was available in the extended magazines I might even choose that for fast follow-up shots. These are rifle rounds more powerful than the typical anti-personnel police rifle cartridges of today. .35 Rem hits hard and is great for deer or elk hunting but it also hits back hard in this rifle.
Well I'd like to have the interchangeable magazines so if go with this, in .30 Remington. And whether or not I had to use it, I'd like to have the ability to fight heavily armed fugitives if necessary.
Clay3613 With that attitude you might as well stick with a rolling block single-shot. Police are justified in carrying Glocks and ARs with higher capacity magazines than the Remington 81 Special Police. At the time, it was the best thing available to keep you from getting plugged. If the local thugs just had revolvers and bolt-action rifles, that's no reason to not outgun them with a better rifle. Besides, there did exist police units armed to confront the most dangerous, submachine gun wielding criminals like the Dillinger gang. They needed to be heavily armed. But I'll also take the semi-auto long gun even for home defense, it'll give me a slight advantage against other weapons.
Will this be outlawed in California after 1/1/17 since it has removable magazine? Trivia: Frank Hamer, later in life, claimed he used a Model 81, with extended magazine, to shoot Bonnie & Clyde. Problem was Model 81 introduced AFTER Bonnie & Clyde were shot. The elderly Hamer confused it with the Model 8, that he did use. Excellent YT post on this subject.
@@dennisspencer1113 But the story and rifle that Hamer and his family point to as the Bonnie & Clyde gun is specifically a model and a modification from after the shootout, as well as photos taken right after of the posses guns piled on top of the car(not the guns of Bonnie and Clyde) not showing any sort of extended magazine but a standard Model 8 five shot.
Correction Frank Hamer's son claimed the use of a model 81. There is a picture of a model 8 on the top of Bonnie and Clyde's car at the scene of the ambush in 1934 it is equipped with a standard 5 round mag.
This gun was a lot more expensive than an AR-15 though. In a page from an old mail order catalog, I saw the price for the 'standard' Woodmaster Model 81 -- which was the very cheapest model -- listed at $76.60, which was the modern-day equivalent of over $1400 in 1936 (which was the year that Remington reintroduced the Model 8 as the Woodmaster Model 81). I also saw an old ad for a machine shop that would convert the fixed 5-round magazine to be detachable, charging $25 for the conversion, and $12.50 for each additional 5-round magazine. It was called a 'Krieger' conversion, after the shop in Mount Clemens, Michigan that seems to have originally done them. In 1936, that would have been equivalent to over $460 for the modification, and over $230 for each additional magazine. I can't imagine that it would have been much cheaper to get the 15-round POE magazines for the Model 8. That's a far cry from modern-day AR-15s that often go for less than $600 brand-new, with additional 30-round magazines only costing about $10 each. You can also find both of those items anyplace where guns are sold, which probably wasn't the case for this rifle. For instance, to get the Krieger conversion, you had to ship your entire rifle to them so they could custom-fit each magazine.
What I find fascinating is again you see hints of what could lead to a selective fire assault rifle in the same vein as the AK47 and STg44 many years before with the US. There were even cartridges like .32 Remington that with development could have been developed into something not unlike the later intermediate cartridges.
I like the fact that you tell the story, behind these firearms it reminds me of our heritage! This is priceless! My family came to this country in 1637. Two of my relatives fought in the American revolution. Firearms' hold a special place in my heart. The last time I saw my dad was when I was 4 years old in 1960. He bought me a toy gun that lookted like a Thompson machine gun, except it had a magazine turret on the top of the rifle. He never came back. To bad so sad. The only copy that is close to this model is the American 180 .
The magazines, the safety, the lower receiver the charging handle, even the front hand guard sort of look like the AK. I wonder if Kalashnikov ever saw or handled one of these before he designed the AK.
Jeronimo Murruni, Kalashnikov copied:1.Garand trigger mechanism exactly 2. Rem 8 safety 3. Sturmgewehr layout using: 4. Garand gas setup shortened turned it upside down so the recoil was more straight back. 5. Two lug Garand rotating bolt. 6. Cartridge case from the Manlicher Carcano and Schoenauer 6.5mm cartridges(both of which had the same head diameter) shortened and more tapered for feeding and extraction in extreme dirty conditions. 7. Sturmgewehr concept intermediate cartridge using full caliber but lightened bullet and lower velocity to reduce recoil and increase ammo carry. Whatever Kalashnikov said, the Russians had a lot of captured Sturmgewehrs, and they forced Hugo Schmeisser(Sturmgewehr designer) to help with the design of the AK. Still a great gun:). Even the AR15/M16/M4 family copied a lot of ideas from the Sturmgewehr.
Jeronimo Murruni Kalashnikov didn't design his gun in a vacuum. Of course he would have been exposed to and influenced by other guns of the time. I'm not sure if Kalashnikov would have seen the model 8 in particular, but I think that it is possible. I think that any good firearms designer would have to be familiar with many different firearms and operating systems. I think it would not be too much of a stretch to say that the soviets would have had knowledge of the model 8, especially since it had been around for awhile before WWII broke out. Also, I think it would behoove Kalashnikov and the Soviets to downplay the role and influence that foreigners and foreign guns had on the design of the AK. It would be better propaganda to say, "look at this humble soviet mechanic, he designed the AK all by himself without any foreign influence. Look at how innovative us Soviets are!". Also, it would diminish his prestige if he admitted to copying or adapting features of other guns into his gun, instead of coming up with them himself.
Jeronimo M Kalashnikov is full of shit then. He was a soviets hero, and because of that they pretend that a guy with 1 and a half Russian Luty's under his belt can design their best rifle "by accident." And amazingly, he never manages to design anything but more AKs. While EVERY other Soviet designer shows previous talent(not necessarily education, but talent yes), and continues to design new things, while Kalashnikov stays active, but can never design anything else.
How in the hell does Ians content get ANY dislikes ? I'd really like to know. He does his homework. He always says his opinion is his opinion. These must be other gun gurus.
If the la. Police department would have had these during the Hollywood bank robbery and shoot out in the 90s, they would have done much better stopping them.
I heard it was a regular Model 8 in .35 Rem. so it could punch through car's metal bodies. Model 81's came out in 1936, B&K killed in 1934. There are pictures taken directly after the action with all the guns on the roof of the death car, and you will notice it's a regular Model 8, 5+1 shot. They say the police model 81 was given to Frank at a later date, in the late 30's after he achieved the fame for killing B&K.
Neat. I love my 81a. In fact just yesterday I put up a shooting video with one of mine. The magazine version was also an FBI staple. In the book 'Thompson, The American Legend' on page 153 there is a photo of at least 11 of Model 81s in an FBI safe at the Quantico FBI Academy. They remained in FBI inventory until the 1960s. Most of the FBI variants were in caliber .30 Remington.
So, how many times would everyone have had to **reload** and empty their guns into the car? **167** bullets The Guns That Killed Bonnie and Clyde His men wielded **a .35-caliber Model 8, a Model 94 Winchester, a .25-caliber Model 8, and a BAR. Some of them were armed with Remington Model 11 shotguns.** And all of them carried handguns. Jun 6, 2019 The Guns of Bonnie and Clyde - Widener's www.wideners.com › blog › the-guns-of-bonnie-and-clyde Who was in the posse that killed Bonnie and Clyde? On May 23, 1934, Bonnie Elizabeth Parker and Clyde Chestnut Barrow, infamous criminal duo, were ambushed and brutally gunned down by a **posse of six police officers** on Gibsland Road just outside Bienville Parish, Louisiana.May 27, 2017 One of the men who killed Bonnie & Clyde was Bonnie's secret ... www.thevintagenews.com › 2017/05/27 › one-of-the-men-who-killed... How many bullets did Bonnie and Clyde get shot with? No less then **167** bullets were fired at the notorious outlaws, Bonnie and Clyde. Both men claim that they heard only two shots fired that morning! The Last Day for Bonnie & Clyde texashideout.tripod.com › Gibsland Search for: How many bullets did Bonnie and Clyde get shot with?
BAR, the same as Bonnie and Clyde used not the Remington model 8. Several factual TH-cam videos recreated about Bonnie and Clyde and thier shootouts that are worth watching.
They would probably have been much more popular if Remington had beefed up the tube spring so as to come out with a carbine version and made the optional peep sight a standard. :)
I own this same rifle. When my sister's husband died, she gave his rifle to me. It's in perfect working order, although the bluing is well worn. Mine is in 30 Remington. While the ammunition is obsolete, from time to time you can find that someone has done a production run of it. For example, Ventura Munitions will do a run on it but it's pretty expensive @ $2.50 per round. That's pretty much the going rate. I've never found it cheaper. $50 for 20 rounds. That's a lot of money for something that was designed to compete with and equals the performance of a 30-30 Winchester round. However, if you're a reloader, you can still get dies for this caliber and if you have brass you can reload using 30-30 data.
This reminds me of my fathers Savage version of a browning Auto 5 (Savage 720 maybe?). Of course his is a different beast being a 16ga shotgun rather than a .35 rifle, but the long recoil action looks very similar. Fun gun to shoot. Soft shooter and smooth. It makes me think this Model 8 would be a very nice to shoot.
There seems to be a fair amount of full metal jacket ammo in 35 Remington out in the market place from this era. Perhaps to be used as an anti vehicle round?
very cool. thanks for sharing. was not expecting one of these popping up. last time i saw one of these was in 1998 i was at this guys house to fix something.. and he was a doctor, and he was a trip. he was one of them who thought the world was coming to a end in 2000. anyhow, i remember walking into his kitchen.. and he tossed me a tommy gun. i was like.. wtf.. then we started talking and he started showing me his guns. very weird experience now i think about it all these years later
In the '80s a friend of mine in the National Guard was the armorer for LA county. When I got my Model 8 he gave me a couple of these mags he had found in the armory thinking that I may adapt them to my gun.
I’ve never seen this gun before it’s quite amazing. How in the world to disconnect to get militarize during World War II? it looks like it has at least a 20 to 30 round magazine our troops would’ve been we had had they had that kind of fire power.
nice review and own a Remington 11 circa 1932 that still shoots very well at the trap and skeet range, now i am very interested in the 8 and 81 to complete my collection of MR. Browning long arms. thanks again.
I got to handle LASD Gun number 78 at a Gun Store in Burbank, CA back in June of 2016. It was part of an estate collection which included an LASD marked 1892 Winchester!
As a former Missouri resident I knew about Hillyard but did not know about his other line. I think they are the number 1 company when it comes to products to care for wood floors in gyms and basketball courts. They make a bunch of janitorial products including a line called... Arsenal.
Great video as always Ian. Have you ever come across a lee Enfield no1 mk5 or mk6? I'm sure they are quite rare but it would be fascinating to see the evolutionary process to the no4 series of enfields. Keep up the good work!
I just watched the vid on the model 8 and now this model 81. what I noticed is that it says "the Woodsmaster". so this is where my 742 came from, cool.
This gun was originally manufactured in 1906 the neat safety bar Was copied by the AK and is proof that there is nothing new under the sun, with that extended mag it would have been a handy little home defence gun !
When I saw the thumbnail image I initially thought it was a Browning humpback 12gauge. I kinda wish Ian WOULD do a video on those, as I have one from 1923 that quit on me and I have no earthly idea why it won't fire. Got it for $125 at a local shop, according to the serial# it was originally US Army issue. Love to have it working again.
In 1974, just before I went in the United States Marine Corps I was on the Silver Bow County Sheriff's Department. In the trunk of every patrol car we had this very rifle, and if recollection serves me it was in 351 Winchester. Never had to use it oh, but they were sure fine looking rifles.
Funny thing is many of these Commentirs were in the U.S. Morines....You never hear about U.S. Paratroopers...they think for themselves.. And remain quiet after their tour of duty........
I wish one of you gun smiths would start modding Remington Model 8s and 81s into these again. I would order one. You could make some in 300 Savage too. 😉
I remember the time when my Dad had a government car from the Customs Service, they used to have the detachable flashing light which was wired to the car and when in use they would open the window and stick it on top of the roof of the car. I guess they had magnets which kept it there. Its a shame they didn't seem to bother to make this a security or civil defense rifle. I find the guns they issued during the war for second line forces to be interesting, especially the guards from the Civilian Auxiliary Military Police which was used to guard the factories during the war. I can never find much information on them other than some lawsuit after the war regarding them and the unions during the war.
@@justforever96 I think it was more along the lines of them either being older veterans or otherwise unable to serve due to age or some other issue. Keep in mind that for some people just being able to wear a uniform and shoulder a weapon can mean a lot for someone who the military won't take during a time of war even if all they do is guard some place that doesn't get attacked.
Well it does make sense to market them to law enforcement. I mean law enforcement officers were using the standard fix magazine version of this rifle. It seems they just got on it a bit too late to really catch on.
...Is it odd to anyone else that weapons this advanced were available, yet most major military rifles were still bolt action? Even the legendary M1 Garand isn't as advanced in its features as this, and it was the most advanced basic battle rifle in common use during WWII. The M1 had an 8 round clip, while this rifle could handle a modern 20 round "banana" magazine. Why didn't the U.S. military pick up this rifle and use it in the field, after some modifications to make it more rugged?
Back in the day they kept things like this for true emergencies, police have never been designed to be militaristic. Cops in a general sense were a lot more like Andy Taylor and a lot less like G.I. Joe
Were these made in .25 rem, plenty of gun for people and less kick. .35 rem is getting to be a short range elk or even moose gun with the right bullet.
Thanks Ian saw one for 600 with 1940s marks but with the mag going to get it next paycheck he had it for a few years now it in .25 so I'm saying that a good find
Why the fuck would you sell that thing???? I own one and it's a beauty. My papa was a WWII vetbin the South Pacific campaign. And after the war in 1954 I believe, he won it in a poker game. It is chambered in .300 savage and is an absolute monster of a gun. Fun fact, it was a highly preferred police weapon because it's very accurate, and .300 savage isn't something to fuck around with. And was as an infantry rifle in WW1 I don't think enough people have that much respect for old weapons.
Is there a mechanical reason the bolt catch/ release had to be removed, or was it just considered superfluous for a detachable magazine fed weapon and therefore removed to reduce cost? A modern shooter would probably consider it a useful function to speed up reloading like the way it is used on an AR15.
The bolt catch used to hold back the bolt so you could feed a stripper clip due to it having only a 5 round internal mag. So when you got done you hit the release and it would load a round Since you now have a detachable mag, there's not much point to having it than to have an AR style chamber using the release. So they dumped it because you'd judy drop a mag, put another in, and manually cycle the bolt. I can see the value of it still being able to hold and release the bolt but it probably did cut down on cost and was a bit redundant.
I believe at least one of these was issued to The US Marines. In a recent You Tube doc about the battle for Tinian, footage shows a Marine firing one from the shoulder. I replayed the video a number of times and STILL was unable to ID the weapon. I can't recall the content creator but it was a two part doc, and the scene I'm citing comes midway through part two.
I live in Europé, I don´t Think that gun would be leagal if i can´t find a sport where it´s useful or start colecting guns of the right kind. even then it can be hard.
I live in Florida I was lucky enough to get a contract to do some demolition work on an old farm that was built late 1800'si was also given the responsibility of disposing of all the items and trash in the home and told I could keep anything I found or wanted so the day before I brought in heavy equipment i spent time searching the house found old pots and pans as expected but then I found a cedar chest in the basement tons of old photos from the 20's and 30's then at the very bottom I found a wood box I opened it and inside there was 2 model 8 rifles in 35 rem cal completely covered in grease I still have them and use them to hunt the stocks have the old style brass tacks drove in them the initials J.M then a silver concho is attached to the forearm beautiful weapons that were way ahead of they're time
If that's a real story that is awesome!
their* they're is short for they are.
awesome story though!
@boogie Man - Lucky you!
My great uncle had a Model 81 chambered in .35 Remington, and with a non detachable magazine. It took 6 round stripper clips to load it, and it was given to me this last Christmas as a late inheritance gift. Nobody in my family has ever had an issue with the rifle, and it's still in beautiful shape
"covered in grease" I guess thats one way to preserve an item for a long time.
That letter from Remington arguing that Model 81s would be ideal for defending against paratrooper assault amuses me greatly because it makes me think of a WWII Red Dawn scenario where somehow Ju-52s & the L2D (Japanese license-built copy of the DC-3) somehow manage to cross the ocean to drop at most a company of troops in the most densely populated parts of the US
The .35 Remington is a beast. My brother in law had a lever action in that caliber and I grew up hunting with it. It’s a super accurate pretty powerful round.
350 legend is the ballistic clone of it (35 rem)... Nothing new under the sun.
@@johndoe-td2xd ok?
@@johndoe-td2xd L
⁰
@@johndoe-td2xd Why would you reply to someone's comment about an old caliber/cartridge with "this new cartridge you weren't talking about is a ballistic twin of that old cartridge, there's nothing new under the sun"? Like yeah, that's kind of inherent in the term "ballistic twin"; nobody expects both calibers of a ballistically twinned pair to be just as new as each other.
I love old guns. The machining, hand fitting and time it took makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
Nice. The Model 8 was indeed used in limited numbers in WWI. I believe I have read for airplane use before machineguns were mounted. I've always been amused that Kalashnikov seems to have been "inspired" by John Browning's safety on these.
Doby Pilgrim inspired indeed! The magazine is also similar albeit the catch is on the rifle in the ak 🍻
i also remember reading once that he got the idea for the long stroke piston from the m1 garand ( a bunch were sent to russia as aid suring ww2 ) it was on wikipedia in arabic so its probably not a reliable source but the similarity is clear, so the ak 47 is more of an american design than the ar 15 if you think about it since the ar 15 was inspired by the stg and ljungman 42 it just pisses me off that people still dont accept these two facts after everything Ian did about the stg and the ak and the ar and now this
The AR-15 has nothing to do with the Ljungman or StG; it borrows its rotating bolt from the M1941 Johnson rifle and its in line stock from the Johnson LMG, but it is otherwise a novel operating mechanism. The Ljungman uses a fixed piston system, which is considered more of a true direct impingement design, whereas the AR has an internal piston system that pushes the bolt carrier and breech apart to cycle the action. The only things the two guns have in common is that they both use a long gas tube and lack any kind of operating rod. The StG has an ejection port dust cover, and that's about it.
Doby Pilgrim The Russians always keep an eye on other nation's technologies. They are smart in that respect.
Gene Garren the AR-15 did not borrow the "in line stock" from the Johnson lmg.
Johnson lmg didn't even have that. It basically had te action acting as a cheek rest if anything.
The practice of putting the action in the STOCK was established by countless designs.
Eugene stoner did it to save on weight, since the stock was gonna be plastic/fiberglass, it needed some strengthening structure, so why not just put an extension of the receiver in there?
The bolt was "taken" from the Johnson rifle, but a multilug rotating bolt was not the important bit.
The important deal was using a barrel extension exclusively as the locking area, for the sake of lightweight(Johnson did it because HIS rifle design was short recoil unlocking, but still made his receiver heavy).
If I was a police officer in the early to mid 1900s, I'd buy this to use as a patrol rifle. Along with as many extra magazines I could find.
Redneck Operations It depends on what I'd be using the rifle for, but if I wasn't using it as a marksman I would probably buy the .30 Remington version. The rifle has a lot of recoil and .30 Rem (like .30-30) is powerful enough and would make for a better weapon at close range. If a smaller caliber was available in the extended magazines I might even choose that for fast follow-up shots. These are rifle rounds more powerful than the typical anti-personnel police rifle cartridges of today. .35 Rem hits hard and is great for deer or elk hunting but it also hits back hard in this rifle.
You'd probably never get a chance to use it though. Don't think you'd come across many heavily-armed fugitives. ;)
Well I'd like to have the interchangeable magazines so if go with this, in .30 Remington. And whether or not I had to use it, I'd like to have the ability to fight heavily armed fugitives if necessary.
Clay3613
With that attitude you might as well stick with a rolling block single-shot. Police are justified in carrying Glocks and ARs with higher capacity magazines than the Remington 81 Special Police. At the time, it was the best thing available to keep you from getting plugged. If the local thugs just had revolvers and bolt-action rifles, that's no reason to not outgun them with a better rifle. Besides, there did exist police units armed to confront the most dangerous, submachine gun wielding criminals like the Dillinger gang. They needed to be heavily armed. But I'll also take the semi-auto long gun even for home defense, it'll give me a slight advantage against other weapons.
The BAR was readily available, pre-dates this model and had twenty round mags. Heavy but more firepower.
Will this be outlawed in California after 1/1/17 since it has removable magazine?
Trivia: Frank Hamer, later in life, claimed he used a Model 81, with extended magazine, to shoot Bonnie & Clyde. Problem was Model 81 introduced AFTER Bonnie & Clyde were shot. The elderly Hamer confused it with the Model 8, that he did use. Excellent YT post on this subject.
Dor Aran yup, looks like an assault rifle.
There were other companies/gunsmiths who made extended mags for the mod 8 and 81.
@@dennisspencer1113 But the story and rifle that Hamer and his family point to as the Bonnie & Clyde gun is specifically a model and a modification from after the shootout, as well as photos taken right after of the posses guns piled on top of the car(not the guns of Bonnie and Clyde) not showing any sort of extended magazine but a standard Model 8 five shot.
Correction Frank Hamer's son claimed the use of a model 81. There is a picture of a model 8 on the top of Bonnie and Clyde's car at the scene of the ambush in 1934 it is equipped with a standard 5 round mag.
Guess the LA County Sheriff's Department was buying them in case the Japanese showed up...
Cheaper the Thompson, and a lot more effective on automotive sheet metal..
Ken ibn Anak
Could definitely shoot an A6M Zero out of the sky...
Or the Germans - the French issued them during WW1.
I think y'all are a war late
@@mikesuch9021 they didn't know there would be a stand down.
This gun is what an AR-15 is for the police departments today.
This gun was a lot more expensive than an AR-15 though. In a page from an old mail order catalog, I saw the price for the 'standard' Woodmaster Model 81 -- which was the very cheapest model -- listed at $76.60, which was the modern-day equivalent of over $1400 in 1936 (which was the year that Remington reintroduced the Model 8 as the Woodmaster Model 81).
I also saw an old ad for a machine shop that would convert the fixed 5-round magazine to be detachable, charging $25 for the conversion, and $12.50 for each additional 5-round magazine. It was called a 'Krieger' conversion, after the shop in Mount Clemens, Michigan that seems to have originally done them. In 1936, that would have been equivalent to over $460 for the modification, and over $230 for each additional magazine. I can't imagine that it would have been much cheaper to get the 15-round POE magazines for the Model 8.
That's a far cry from modern-day AR-15s that often go for less than $600 brand-new, with additional 30-round magazines only costing about $10 each. You can also find both of those items anyplace where guns are sold, which probably wasn't the case for this rifle. For instance, to get the Krieger conversion, you had to ship your entire rifle to them so they could custom-fit each magazine.
What I find fascinating is again you see hints of what could lead to a selective fire assault rifle in the same vein as the AK47 and STg44 many years before with the US. There were even cartridges like .32 Remington that with development could have been developed into something not unlike the later intermediate cartridges.
I like the fact that you tell the story, behind these firearms it reminds me of our heritage! This is priceless! My family came to this country in 1637. Two of my relatives fought in the American revolution. Firearms' hold a special place in my heart. The last time I saw my dad was when I was 4 years old in 1960. He bought me a toy gun that lookted like a Thompson machine gun, except it had a magazine turret on the top of the rifle. He never came back. To bad so sad. The only copy that is close to this model is the American 180 .
If the gun is labelled "Metropolis PD," does it shoot Kryptonite bullets?
Mine Does.
Simple, rustic and beautiful.
Don't you saw that ugly and complicated magazine?
Константин Тирский When the word "ugly" doesn't apply to guns.
PurpleStorm8 unless it's a hi point pistol
Just like it's Great grand son the AK
I love the painted in markings! This example has been well taken care of
go back to your old avatar. it looked way more insane.
mercoid I'm in a more chill zone right now, so I've got a more chill avatar.
You're not supposed to be chill, you're supposed to work at the next Plinkett review, hack fraud!
leonardo tavares dardenne I'm chill because I already finished it. It comes out tomorrow.
Does it really, though? RLM has said that a 1000 times already.
The magazines, the safety, the lower receiver the charging handle, even the front hand guard sort of look like the AK. I wonder if Kalashnikov ever saw or handled one of these before he designed the AK.
Jeronimo Murruni I mean, it's unlikely but how do you know that for sure? Did you know the man?
Jeronimo Murruni, Kalashnikov copied:1.Garand trigger mechanism exactly 2. Rem 8 safety 3. Sturmgewehr layout using: 4. Garand gas setup shortened turned it upside down so the recoil was more straight back. 5. Two lug Garand rotating bolt. 6. Cartridge case from the Manlicher Carcano and Schoenauer 6.5mm cartridges(both of which had the same head diameter) shortened and more tapered for feeding and extraction in extreme dirty conditions. 7. Sturmgewehr concept intermediate cartridge using full caliber but lightened bullet and lower velocity to reduce recoil and increase ammo carry. Whatever Kalashnikov said, the Russians had a lot of captured Sturmgewehrs, and they forced Hugo Schmeisser(Sturmgewehr designer) to help with the design of the AK. Still a great gun:). Even the AR15/M16/M4 family copied a lot of ideas from the Sturmgewehr.
Jeronimo Murruni Kalashnikov didn't design his gun in a vacuum. Of course he would have been exposed to and influenced by other guns of the time. I'm not sure if Kalashnikov would have seen the model 8 in particular, but I think that it is possible. I think that any good firearms designer would have to be familiar with many different firearms and operating systems. I think it would not be too much of a stretch to say that the soviets would have had knowledge of the model 8, especially since it had been around for awhile before WWII broke out. Also, I think it would behoove Kalashnikov and the Soviets to downplay the role and influence that foreigners and foreign guns had on the design of the AK. It would be better propaganda to say, "look at this humble soviet mechanic, he designed the AK all by himself without any foreign influence. Look at how innovative us Soviets are!". Also, it would diminish his prestige if he admitted to copying or adapting features of other guns into his gun, instead of coming up with them himself.
Jeronimo M Kalashnikov is full of shit then.
He was a soviets hero, and because of that they pretend that a guy with 1 and a half Russian Luty's under his belt can design their best rifle "by accident."
And amazingly, he never manages to design anything but more AKs.
While EVERY other Soviet designer shows previous talent(not necessarily education, but talent yes), and continues to design new things, while Kalashnikov stays active, but can never design anything else.
Not Pulverman he did designed the74 and worked on alot of other guns.
The great irony is that this rifle is illigal in california.
I cant tell if this is funny or painfull
First one, then the other.
It is pre ban
avshutsach Doesent matter, in the state of california its not transferable
What's even more ironic is that lowers for said assault weapons aren't banned in Cali
Andre Krumins California is gay
How in the hell does Ians content get ANY dislikes ?
I'd really like to know. He does his homework. He always says his opinion is his opinion. These must be other gun gurus.
Looks like a mag-fed Browning Auto-5
the same action
If the la. Police department would have had these during the Hollywood bank robbery and shoot out in the 90s, they would have done much better stopping them.
I don’t know if 35 Remington would go through body armor, but it would have hurt like hell getting hit.
@Khaki Shorts only after being disabled
Oh damn this has always been a bucket list gun for me, God as my witness I WILL own one someday. So badass!
Josh Callejas I'd make an effort to get this one...it appears pretty flawless and it's in a caliber you can still find. Good luck🍻
This one is for sale. All it takes is money
12345NoNamesLeft the one thing I don't have in surplus.
Josh Callejas Amen!
Lol I have one their pretty dop
Isn't that the gun Frank Hamer used when he shot Bonnie and Clyde? In .30 Remington though.
I heard it was a regular Model 8 in .35 Rem. so it could punch through car's metal bodies. Model 81's came out in 1936, B&K killed in 1934. There are pictures taken directly after the action with all the guns on the roof of the death car, and you will notice it's a regular Model 8, 5+1 shot. They say the police model 81 was given to Frank at a later date, in the late 30's after he achieved the fame for killing B&K.
The amount of peope asking why this haven't been adopted by the military without checking the original video is TOO DAMM HIGH!
Neat. I love my 81a. In fact just yesterday I put up a shooting video with one of mine. The magazine version was also an FBI staple. In the book 'Thompson, The American Legend' on page 153 there is a photo of at least 11 of Model 81s in an FBI safe at the Quantico FBI Academy. They remained in FBI inventory until the 1960s. Most of the FBI variants were in caliber .30 Remington.
As I recall one of the guns used to take down Bonnie and Clyde.
So, how many times would everyone have had to **reload** and empty their guns into the car?
**167** bullets
The Guns That Killed Bonnie and Clyde
His men wielded **a .35-caliber Model 8, a Model 94 Winchester, a .25-caliber Model 8, and a BAR. Some of them were armed with Remington Model 11 shotguns.** And all of them carried handguns. Jun 6, 2019
The Guns of Bonnie and Clyde - Widener's
www.wideners.com › blog › the-guns-of-bonnie-and-clyde
Who was in the posse that killed Bonnie and Clyde?
On May 23, 1934, Bonnie Elizabeth Parker and Clyde Chestnut Barrow, infamous criminal duo, were ambushed and brutally gunned down by a **posse of six police officers** on Gibsland Road just outside Bienville Parish, Louisiana.May 27, 2017
One of the men who killed Bonnie & Clyde was Bonnie's secret ...
www.thevintagenews.com › 2017/05/27 › one-of-the-men-who-killed...
How many bullets did Bonnie and Clyde get shot with?
No less then **167** bullets were fired at the notorious outlaws, Bonnie and Clyde. Both men claim that they heard only two shots fired that morning!
The Last Day for Bonnie & Clyde
texashideout.tripod.com › Gibsland
Search for: How many bullets did Bonnie and Clyde get shot with?
Frank Hamer used a model 8 model 81 did not come out till 1935 or later I think
BAR, the same as Bonnie and Clyde used not the Remington model 8. Several factual TH-cam videos recreated about Bonnie and Clyde and thier shootouts that are worth watching.
and o9ronaically, you can't buy the 15-round magazine in Los Angeles.
Never thought I would see the day that the 35 Remington would lose its popularity, a lot like the 16 gauge shotgun.
It looks Beautiful like a shot gun and rifle mixed together
There is a shotgun model that almost looks like the rifle's twin.
They would probably have been much more popular if Remington had beefed up the tube spring so as to come out with a carbine version and made the optional peep sight a standard. :)
I own this same rifle. When my sister's husband died, she gave his rifle to me. It's in perfect working order, although the bluing is well worn. Mine is in 30 Remington. While the ammunition is obsolete, from time to time you can find that someone has done a production run of it. For example, Ventura Munitions will do a run on it but it's pretty expensive @ $2.50 per round. That's pretty much the going rate. I've never found it cheaper. $50 for 20 rounds. That's a lot of money for something that was designed to compete with and equals the performance of a 30-30 Winchester round. However, if you're a reloader, you can still get dies for this caliber and if you have brass you can reload using 30-30 data.
I have Gramps model 8 in .35, I found a 'if lost return to owner note' ,from Gramps great uncle behind the butt plate.
This reminds me of my fathers Savage version of a browning Auto 5 (Savage 720 maybe?). Of course his is a different beast being a 16ga shotgun rather than a .35 rifle, but the long recoil action looks very similar. Fun gun to shoot. Soft shooter and smooth. It makes me think this Model 8 would be a very nice to shoot.
What i like the most of that rifle is how much it's lines look like the late 60s Browning A5 shotguns, that i love.
At first glance, that's what I thought it was.
My little collection has an 81 in .300 savage I found it in a pawn shop for 70 bucks. It's a very reliable gun
I've got two in 300 Savage.. grand father and father's rifles..
Shame they didn't sell loads. They look like pretty good rifles.
guess again - 35 Remington is still available.
Merle, Kuddles is speaking specifically of the rifle. Not sure how you missed that.
This rifle is like a spiritual precursor to the M14
And has much in common with Mossberg's 590M shotgun, especially the box magazine
There seems to be a fair amount of full metal jacket ammo in 35 Remington out in the market place from this era. Perhaps to be used as an anti vehicle round?
very cool. thanks for sharing. was not expecting one of these popping up. last time i saw one of these was in 1998 i was at this guys house to fix something.. and he was a doctor, and he was a trip. he was one of them who thought the world was coming to a end in 2000. anyhow, i remember walking into his kitchen.. and he tossed me a tommy gun. i was like.. wtf.. then we started talking and he started showing me his guns. very weird experience now i think about it all these years later
Which doomsday was it? The new ice age, global warming, or the three days of darkness?
In the '80s a friend of mine in the National Guard was the armorer for LA county. When I got my Model 8 he gave me a couple of these mags he had found in the armory thinking that I may adapt them to my gun.
Wanna sell one? Is the mags in .30 or .35?
Archangel (AKA, Promag) makes SKS detachable magazines like that, with the release lever on the mag.
I’ve never seen this gun before it’s quite amazing. How in the world to disconnect to get militarize during World War II? it looks like it has at least a 20 to 30 round magazine our troops would’ve been we had had they had that kind of fire power.
Too finicky and hard to maintain. You wouldn't want this as a soldier.
Really, they could have had this in WW1. Model 8 with a banana clip. The O.G. BAR.
nice review and own a Remington 11 circa 1932 that still shoots very well at the trap and skeet range, now i am very interested in the 8 and 81 to complete my collection of MR. Browning long arms. thanks again.
The Remington Model 8 was the rifle Frank Hamer used to kill Bonnie and Clyde.
Ian, you always parse your words, and this video is your most perfect example. I'm ESL, and good speech is not lost on me.
Another day, another beauty. Life is good.
I want one of these guns pretty bad
Me too. Have your gun smith buddy fabricate and mod Model 8s. I'll order 1 or 2 myself.
Its soo smooth looking I like it.
I live in St. Joseph, MO and didn’t know anything about this company. Have to look into it now and see if I can find anything cool.
Hillyard Inc is still around and headquartered in St. Joseph and was founded by the same guy. It's still ran by his descendents.
I got to handle LASD Gun number 78 at a Gun Store in Burbank, CA back in June of 2016. It was part of an estate collection which included an LASD marked 1892 Winchester!
Still a very viable hunting/self defense tool
The model 8 or 81 are still on my list of rifles to buy
What a beautiful piece!
I love the 8 and 81.
As a former Missouri resident I knew about Hillyard but did not know about his other line. I think they are the number 1 company when it comes to products to care for wood floors in gyms and basketball courts. They make a bunch of janitorial products including a line called... Arsenal.
Great video as always Ian. Have you ever come across a lee Enfield no1 mk5 or mk6? I'm sure they are quite rare but it would be fascinating to see the evolutionary process to the no4 series of enfields. Keep up the good work!
I meant to go to sleep an hour ago. now I'm here just watching all of your videos!
I just watched the vid on the model 8 and now this model 81. what I noticed is that it says "the Woodsmaster". so this is where my 742 came from, cool.
This gun was originally manufactured in 1906 the neat safety bar
Was copied by the AK and is proof that there is nothing new under the sun, with that extended mag it would have been a handy little home defence gun !
This rifle is another one on my wishlist. BTW, these were also used by the Canadian Mounties during the 20s and 30s.
When I saw the thumbnail image I initially thought it was a Browning humpback 12gauge. I kinda wish Ian WOULD do a video on those, as I have one from 1923 that quit on me and I have no earthly idea why it won't fire. Got it for $125 at a local shop, according to the serial# it was originally US Army issue. Love to have it working again.
They might have used your type of shotgun for training Ariel gunners in the earlier part of their shooting training.
I Love to hear about Men successfully starting companies & making money helping others, Its true Americana.!!!
i cant wait for the day where Ians like thanks for watching im not gonna tell you where you can bid cause im buying this i like it too much XD
Throw a rail for a dot and you'd have one helluva patrol rifle even today.
Beautiful condition!
That's a very nice looking rifle
I love the history.
In 1974, just before I went in the United States Marine Corps I was on the Silver Bow County Sheriff's Department. In the trunk of every patrol car we had this very rifle, and if recollection serves me it was in 351 Winchester. Never had to use it oh, but they were sure fine looking rifles.
.35 Rem
Funny thing is many of these Commentirs were in the U.S. Morines....You never hear about U.S. Paratroopers...they think for themselves..
And remain quiet after their tour of duty........
I'm serious
I wish one of you gun smiths would start modding Remington Model 8s and 81s into these again. I would order one. You could make some in 300 Savage too. 😉
Beautiful!
I remember the time when my Dad had a government car from the Customs Service, they used to have the detachable flashing light which was wired to the car and when in use they would open the window and stick it on top of the roof of the car. I guess they had magnets which kept it there. Its a shame they didn't seem to bother to make this a security or civil defense rifle. I find the guns they issued during the war for second line forces to be interesting, especially the guards from the Civilian Auxiliary Military Police which was used to guard the factories during the war. I can never find much information on them other than some lawsuit after the war regarding them and the unions during the war.
@@justforever96 I think it was more along the lines of them either being older veterans or otherwise unable to serve due to age or some other issue. Keep in mind that for some people just being able to wear a uniform and shoulder a weapon can mean a lot for someone who the military won't take during a time of war even if all they do is guard some place that doesn't get attacked.
Well it does make sense to market them to law enforcement. I mean law enforcement officers were using the standard fix magazine version of this rifle. It seems they just got on it a bit too late to really catch on.
...Is it odd to anyone else that weapons this advanced were available, yet most major military rifles were still bolt action? Even the legendary M1 Garand isn't as advanced in its features as this, and it was the most advanced basic battle rifle in common use during WWII. The M1 had an 8 round clip, while this rifle could handle a modern 20 round "banana" magazine. Why didn't the U.S. military pick up this rifle and use it in the field, after some modifications to make it more rugged?
Have you ever seen a model 8 get taken down? It's not particularly soldier friendly.
Love these history videos... Thanks again!!
Back in the day they kept things like this for true emergencies, police have never been designed to be militaristic. Cops in a general sense were a lot more like Andy Taylor and a lot less like G.I. Joe
"The sling swivel is on the barrel jacket" you mean the shoulder thing that goes up?
What a great little origin story.
Beautifully done markings
Which are the differences and similarities between this rifle and the ak47?
AK studied this design no doubt
Предохранитель-крышка и защёлка магазина явно позаимствована в автомате калашникова
5:52 "... sometimes it'd say like Metropolis P.D. ....." 😂
I have a Model 8 and it jams alllllll the time
Time to tune it up or use 150 grain! Mine has NEVER jammed. Average shooting around 30 rnds per year.
I bet the Metropolis PD ones go for a bomb at auction these days.
Were these made in .25 rem, plenty of gun for people and less kick. .35 rem is getting to be a short range elk or even moose gun with the right bullet.
Great video Ian
Ian, it is a pity, that you didn't present closely the operation of this long recoil system...
th-cam.com/video/XsQXksP-YhI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Ian saw one for 600 with 1940s marks but with the mag going to get it next paycheck he had it for a few years now it in .25 so I'm saying that a good find
Hey I lived there until a year ago so much history there like the peace company and the pony express but from a forgotten time
what guns did the perps have that made this such a viable solution in L.A.?
This seems like a great rifle? Extended, detachable magazine, auto-loading, full rifle rounds. No substantial issues. Seems very modern.
It's a Browning design. Means it'll work until we stop using bullets lol.
Why the fuck would you sell that thing???? I own one and it's a beauty.
My papa was a WWII vetbin the South Pacific campaign. And after the war in 1954 I believe, he won it in a poker game. It is chambered in .300 savage and is an absolute monster of a gun.
Fun fact, it was a highly preferred police weapon because it's very accurate, and .300 savage isn't something to fuck around with. And was as an infantry rifle in WW1
I don't think enough people have that much respect for old weapons.
ya blew it I didn't know they made them in 300 savage. Only heard of .30s and .35s.
Is there a mechanical reason the bolt catch/ release had to be removed, or was it just considered superfluous for a detachable magazine fed weapon and therefore removed to reduce cost? A modern shooter would probably consider it a useful function to speed up reloading like the way it is used on an AR15.
The bolt catch used to hold back the bolt so you could feed a stripper clip due to it having only a 5 round internal mag. So when you got done you hit the release and it would load a round
Since you now have a detachable mag, there's not much point to having it than to have an AR style chamber using the release. So they dumped it because you'd judy drop a mag, put another in, and manually cycle the bolt.
I can see the value of it still being able to hold and release the bolt but it probably did cut down on cost and was a bit redundant.
The recoil looks so smooth
it looks like the combat rifle from fallout 4
I believe at least one of these was issued to The US Marines. In a recent You Tube doc about the battle for Tinian, footage shows a Marine firing one from the shoulder. I replayed the video a number of times and STILL was unable to ID the weapon. I can't recall the content creator but it was a two part doc, and the scene I'm citing comes midway through part two.
Huh. I think this is what the combat rifle in fallout 4 is based on. Interesting.
Some Days I would loved to live in the US, and to be able to bid on guns. This is one of them.
You don't want to be here right now, trust me. This country lost its soul about 15 years ago.
Kinda depends on where this persons from. If he was from somewhere totally horrible, the US would still be way better.
I live in Europé, I don´t Think that gun would be leagal if i can´t find a sport where it´s useful or start colecting guns of the right kind. even then it can be hard.
what are you, a 90s kid?
Depends on where you live in Europe. Some countries are pretty good when it comes to owning guns.
Very much yes...
1934 Bonnie & Clyde were blown away...what was Frank Hamer's gun?? He carried a 38 super handgun.
That day he carried a .38 super and used a Remington Model 8. 😉
The gun that Texas lawman used to shoot Bonnie and Clyde
I had an opportunity to buy a 30 rem Model 8... basically mint for $800.
Then I looked up 30 remington ammo...
Ya, if you get one, get it in .35.