This is where Cerebus' storytelling achieves literary qualities that very few comics ever have been able to produce. Definitely a "King of the World" moment for Dave & Gerhard.
The Library by my house had the Cerebus Phone books and I read through them while I was recovering from getting my wisdom teeth taken out. Jaka's Story is a high light of the series for sure.
7:30 I'm pretty sure it was Jaka's real childhood nurse in the next cell, the nurse starts singing a song and asks Jaka if she recognizes it, she does and remembers it was sung to her every night as a child, especially during a severe injury
200 is kind of the climax of the story. The last hundred issues are sort of an extended denouement that becomes increasingly slow, depressing, and didactic. Dave Sim himself has said that the main story basically ends at 200.
What @harrybehemoth2751 said. The narrative focus changes dramatically in the final 100 issues. As I will explain in the Mothers & Daughters video, Sim ties up all the narrative threads that began with High Society by the end of issue #200. Issue #201 forwards uses the setting previously established, but it becomes a different comic altogether.
It's always a good day when SBP inches ever closer to the Shark Jump of Cerebus. PS. The existence of the Tavern Keep Pud in this comic unnerves me. Frankly glad he was shot. A stain on the name.
I do realize now with cerebus being in the future nursery could also reflect on the fact that since he'll never grow and change he is essentially an overgrown child. He lashes out at those around him and when doesn't get what he wants, has simplistic needs and wants. He doesn't grow and change and see complexity of things. He just wants to fight the final boss and get the treasure/empire that he can rule over forever.
I read it, issue by issue as they came out (of course, I got the t-shirt afterwards). It's pace was a pain after the high of Church & State, but Sim's graphic storytelling really was at a peak. Haven't read it since, but maybe I should give it a re-read and just endure the harsh bi-taste that comes with reading the last two thirds of the Cerebus run.
@@StrangeBrainParts I believe it was "Listen kid, Cerebus is in love with your wife" I remember getting questions about the shirt, but man - how do you explain something like that?
@astromus You're right! I remembered it wrong. I don't think I was ever asked about the shirt. And, honestly, I'm not sure how I would have replied if I was!
I suspect it's a different reading experience as a whole collection than it was issue by issue. I've some issues (as I can find 'em in dollar bins) but have mostly read the phonebooks.
Cerebus issues 1-200: every issue better than the last. Cerebus issues 201-300: every issue worse than the last. Jaka's Story was great but there were still good things in the tank for a while yet.
Welp. Looks like I have to reread this again - it's been a minute. Just a comment of thanks for continuing to break down this series and to do it so well. ☮️
I've read it, although it's probably been 25+ years since I read it from beginning to end. I started reading Cerebus when I was 13. My first issue was partway through Melmoth, but I somehow kept buying it, all the way to 300. It may have helped that, when I started, Cerebus Bi-Weekly was also reprinting the early chapters of Church & State, including those Roach as Wolverine covers that almost got Sim a lawsuit. Do you think Sim's weird attitude and lifestyle changes in the mid-90's are related to the LSD-induced breakdown he had around 1980? I think he certainly has some type of untreated personality disorder.
The public library near my neighborhood when I was in high school had most of the original issues of Jaka's Story available for 10 cents each. Never got the entire series, but read everything I had plus several sporadic issues and later the Church & State phone books. Pity Sim lost his damn mind.
Right now, Melmoth is written and Mothers & Daughters is about 70% complete. Beyond that, it's unlikely I will continue. The reason being is it's difficult to review without seeing the agenda in the material and being able to objectively assess it on its own merits. I'll like elaborate on that point for clarity during the Mothers & Daughters video.
The fact that the narrative in Jaka's Story is just allowed to *breathe* always stood out to me. So many other comics and graphic novels do the equivalent of quick-cuts, throwing so much at you in as rapid a pace as possible that it is hard to keep track. Jaka's story is just allowed to be -- we get to sit with the characters and wait with them. How many other authors would take that kind of risk?
It's good to see someone is reading Cerebus after issue 200. You read those phonebooks twice so I guess you're at least partially appreciating them. Rick's Story is great, isn't it? And what about the final part of Form and Void? Isn't that the most depressing thing ever? Some people change getting old. It's not usual to see that in comic books, but Sim did that. I think Jaka's depiction in Going Home is sad but not unrealistic.
I did read these, as I read about the first 200 issues or more, until it got too surreal to follow. But I have to confess that I have no recollection of this story at all, even afte watching the video. Though I do remember that, at its best, Cerebus was one of the finest comics I read.
Excellent work. I’d love to hear your thoughts on Melmoth. It’s always been near the top of my list of favourite comic storytelling ever. Also, if I finally manage to sign up for Patreon, would you make my decade and cover CONCRETE, quite possibly the greatest comic ever... ??? Love your work, always an absolute pleasure.
Thank you very much! I don't promise a video about Concrete in exchange for joining Patreon, but I will say it's something I have picked away at from time to time. When I'll be done is another matter entirely.
Yes to all this. Really enjoyed all the Cerebus videos and Melmoth would be quite something. It feels like a very natural continuation from Jaka and yet at the same time the first time the series departs from be a story of Cerebus to a story indulging what's interesting Dave Sim with Cerebus cranked in. I mean its brilliant and I love it, but its no Jaka's Story. Oh and definitely a Concrete video would be fantastic. One of the very few series that gets close to first 200 issues Cerebus.
Sim is a master of the art, his lows surpass the highs from many of his industry peers. I'm not even sure it is fair to call many other writer/artists Dave Sim's peer because of what he was able to do independently in the art form. The Cerebus run was truly unprecedented despite its flaws. It still makes me sad knowing the most money Sim ever made from his work was from that Spawn comic, but also thrilled he was able to make what he did and get that wider exposure. Although I'm not sure how many hard core Cerebus readers came from the Spawn fandom, but there had to be a few I suppose. Like 5 or so. Ok, maybe 5 is being a little too generous or fanciful, but I'm sure there was a couple.
@@StrangeBrainParts I don't know how I forgot the TMNT crossover, but I'm sure it could only have been a fraction of those crazy Spawn dollars. I've never been a huge fan of McFarlane, but what he did at the time for so many of the best voices in the industry that had never seen the financial success that the Image founders enjoyed was so very commendable.
I know of at least two people who became Cerebus readers thanks to his Spawn appearance. I was one of them (I was aware of Cerebus before that Spawn issue though - I already had the TMNT issue and I'd picked up a random issue of Cerebus just to see what all the fuss was about, but my twelve year old self found it to be too wordy, boring and confusing). I was already planning to drop Spawn and the rest of the Image books before the Cerebus issue, but something about that issue piqued my curiosity and made me give Cerebus a second look, and I never looked back. The other person I know of who discovered Cerebus through Spawn is Ed Piskor of Cartoonist Kayfabe fame. He's told the story a couple of times on that channel about how that Spawn issue made him go out and get all the Cerebus phonebooks that had been released so far.
@@carlgibson285 As in most cases, Ed is good company to be in. That is probably the largest case because I was in a similar boat but with the Turtles and Spawn around the same time. I had seen some Cerebus as just one of the things young kids in comic shops comes across and shrugs until picking up the newest X book in the 90s. I, thankfully, was always more into back issues and learning the history of characters while building collections than chasing down all the latest gimmicks when I was a kid. During my Turtle craze I knew there was a role playing game, which I promptly picked up and started playing a few years before I'd touch D&D as well as the OG Turtle comics. I had to save for weeks and weeks of allowance plus holiday or birthday money and probably some begging and pleading to get some issues back then, the Cerebus issue of TMNT was one of them. I picked up a couple issues at a flea market at some point of time that ended up on the "I'll read this someday pile/box" then the Spawn came out and I dug those out and it as still a little ahead of what I was reading due to my age, but I'd start grabbing cheap back issues here and there because I really liked the art. Eventually the story got its hooks in me, but without the Spawn idk if I would have ever went back to those issues, even if that book was mostly hot garbage. So we only need a couple more and we'll know all the people that started reading it due to Spawn, lol. In all seriousness I guarantee Dave probably got a decent little chunk of lifetime readers from that. Even it was 100 people, that 100 people probably really mattered to Sim over the long run.
One of the things I love about Cerebus is that it isn't always about Cerebus. I appreciate the stories that focus on other characters and build out the world. That's one of the aspects I'd like to bring into my own stories. I want to build a world that can work with or without the ostensible main/titular character.
I've got all volumes, the ones with all the text, I basically skipped those. Tell me if I missed out on the overall story. Big elephant, I'm thinking nervous breakdown, maybe schizophrenia, a wasted opportunity that could have been one of the most outstanding works in comic book history. The way it evolved from its first rough issues to the amazing artwork by these two talented guys until the end is beyond perfection. The story on the other hand veers from perfection to wtf is going on with the writer? Its probably been a good two decades since I've read the whole thing, I'm going to watch more videos and see if they might get me motivated to read them again
Exactly like Oscar Wilde, Dave Sim mistook himself for God's gift and had a long, long way to fall. (Ironic, considering he never left Kitchener. I grew up there and can affirm that its heights are not exactly dizzying.) However, I think a lot of people overreact to Sim's self-immolation. Primo: He was _always_ an arse. Segundo: That did not prevent him from making _High Society,_ _Church & State,_ _Jaka's Story,_ and _Melmoth._ From his writings, it seems to me that in early life, he was traumatized by cold, dragonish, WASP women, with anger issues. (cf, Mrs Henrot-Gutch, Cirin, and Thatcher.) Well, I can certainly relate. There were an awful lot of those about in Kitchener - from the 1960s up until the late 1990s. And a great many of them became teachers and childcare workers, for reasons of necessity rather than choice, I don't doubt. Furthermore, it seems he became one of those Brando-like men, who prized the opportunity to sow wild oats above all other pleasures. And resented the social constructs (to which women faced far more pressure to adhere) that favoured monogamy and family. Fair enough. We have examples of rebels who never married - Al Pacino - and those who married constantly - Tony Curtis. If Dave had lived in Los Angeles, New York, or even Toronto, his life might have been very different. But Kitchener is a small and conservative little burg, whose people never had much ambition to buck the status quo. _Siddown and stop tryin' ta act like yer somethin' special,_ they used to tell me all the time. Add to this the fact that at least some part of his outsize audience hero-worshipped him. And that he was under unrelenting pressure to produce *_original content_* for a good 40 years, and it's easy to imagine how he might have nursed a small handful of personal grievances into a fractured cosmology. One that is perhaps unforgivable. But then, it was us, the fans, who were begging him - month after month - to entertain us, with whatever happened to be passing through his mind. And it's not as if he had an editorial committee to talk him off the ledge. Or some other writers on the team to take the lead for a while, when things all got a bit much for him. To top it all, he's probably got one of those personalities that doubles down, whenever he feels his back's against the wall. Certainly, we've known more and more people like that, especially since 2017. In the end, we're all flawed, weak, egocentric, and mortal humans. With more to recommend against us than for us. Dave Sim happens to be the creator of a handful of visual marvels. That doesn't mean he's a nice person. Or even a good one. Like Jim Morrison, he pursued his individual djinn until she led him off the deep end. He left behind some diamonds. Scattered amongst the tedious, droning, and vaguely misogynistric blues melodies. Which we may choose to forgive him, because of gems like _Riders on the Storm._ Or _High Society._ *Final Note:* I ain't sayin' he ain't no misogynist. The armchair psychologist in me finds it interesting that Cerebus treats the rather traditionally womanly Red Sophia as contemptable and ugly. Whilst the female characters he seems intrigued by - Jaka, Astoria, The Regency Elf, Theresa, and The Countess - all have short hair or boyish bangs, and rather un-curvy physiques. (Mind you: It was the early 1980s. Princess Di, and Patrick Nagel, and all that. So maybe he was just a fashion victim.)
I think the thing which imo makes the later half of cerebus work is jakas discussion with thatcher. Of course in this story we are meant to sympathize with Jaka but she never really refutes thatchy. Ultimately as much as Jakas dancing is an art its also her trying seduce and capture the male attention she previously lacked. As much as Sim liked Jaka he could have had her be 100% in the right but its the fundamental truth of thatchy which makes the story into a real work of art and not just propaganda and it does wonders later in going home as I dont think the Jaka shown here is all that different from the one shown later. The difference is that Dave Sim has just shifted perspective. Feminist dave sim rendered the fantasy male hero archetype ij its true form as a literal disgusting pig and anti-feminist dave sim renders the princess whore archetype (see Mary Jane and Jean Grey) in its true form as a self obsessed neurotic. (Ill note that im not defending dave sim in his takes on women generally he quite simply hates the entire gender of women to an insane degree to a point far beyond not liking feminism as much as he likes go claim otherwise)
"Ultimately as much as Jakas dancing is an art its also her trying seduce and capture the male attention she previously lacked." are you saying that it is because Sim thought this and expressed these ideas through Thatcher, that is "which makes the story into a real work of art and not just propaganda"?
@@ytubeanon Im saying to a degree both sides are right. Which is what makes the conflict compelling. If jaka was 100% in the right and everyone else in the wrong the story would lack any long term impact. You cant deny that jakas art is just her titillating men you also cant deny it has an aesthetic and awe inspiring impact on those who view it. There is truth in both perspectives which is fitting for a story about perspective and subjectivity of truth.
@@FemboyCatGaming I guess I don't agree it's titillating men, it might be if she were a stripper... Thatcher causing Rick to hit Jaka, while she didn't get to speak, that wasn't 2 sides of a story. I know Mr. Withers, the innkeeper, wrote lustful things in his journal about her, but is that her fault? isn't it the same as putting the responsibility on women to not excite men because they can't control themselves... I noticed a letter in Cerberus #151 in 1991 by someone named Connie saying the same thing I'm writing here lol
Generally agree with your sentiments on the story, sir. I would say the diary section of Reads - with the Hemingway hunting trip - would give Jaka's Story a run for its money in the storytelling department, but it isn't quite as resonant emotionally. I've said it before... Cerebus contains some of the best comics I've ever read and some of the worst comics I've ever read. Nobody puts pages together like Sim, before or since, and it's downright criminal that the cluttered, dank chambers of his Rupert-Murdoch-addled mind keep those pages from being studied by practitioners of the craft. All that brilliance, completely wasted.
Its that dave sim veiwed Oscar Wilde as two separate people: one was a pretentious, self obsessed party animal who is seen in Jakas story, the other was the man who wrote the portrait of dorian grey a novel Dave liked who is seen in melmoth. Dave Sim viewed oscar wilde as a genius writer who blew all his potential being a public facing ass hat who partied all the time. This led Dave to say quite prophetically that hes rather be a grouchy old man everyone hated as long as it meant he created his masterpiece.
Also, a lot of the side characters are based on celebrities or famous fictional characters. This includes Groucho Marx, Margaret Thatcher, Mick Jagger & Keith Richards, Yosemite Sam & Elric Of Melnibone (those are combined into one character). The Roach character was used to parody Captain America, Moon Knight, Wolverine, The Sandman, The Punisher, and other comic book characters.
Cerebus after Melmoth became a story about Dave Sims reaction to life and women , it just became uninteresting and kinda sad …….Sim and Gerhard were so dynamic and talented, Jakas Story was the Apex and it was down hill for me from here …. I’d been reading from about issue 30 or so and it was really depressing seeing how the series eventually continued and ended. It’s even more depressing seeing how he continued to publish more and more irrelevant cut and paste Cerebus stories over the last 6 years ……at his best Dave Sim was probably one of the great comic creators ever and that’s not at all hot air , just go back and read High Society, Church and State and Jakas Story!
I've actually always wanted to attempt to devour one of the "phone books" as the fat Cerebus collections were refered to by Wizard magazine in the 90s. Would it be fair to say that Cerebus was kinda like a serialized story which George RR Martin might have created if he had been working on the staff of Mad magazine?
Not really it's more like it starts as a parody of conan, becomes a sort of parodic political thriller, and eventually becomes the vehicle for a very weird guy to talk about whatever he wants to talk about/
I would say it's pretty amusing for about the first 50 issues. After that, the humour falls off and is used sparingly. Once you hit issue 100, the humour seems a bit out of place and the tone is pretty serious.
@@StrangeBrainParts And the evolution of the art from cartoony to elegant and technical is also pretty distinctive. I'm going to dive in. Is "Women" the one with the Rolling Stones in it?
Please, do that to yourself. Best comicbook ever. And the last 100 issues are good too. It's just that they are sad, disappointing, frustrating and not funny, not that they are not masterful.
He was doing lots of touring circuits, but he wouldn't do original work until judenhauss, galmorpuss, and the strange death of alex raymond after Cerebus.
Cerebus is definitely his main work. He spent 27 years writing, drawing, and publishing it; mostly on a monthly basis. He didn't have time to create much else until it was completed. And by that time he had burned most of his bridges in the comics industry.
@@StrangeBrainParts I just tried that in the various (wonderful by the way!) videos on Cerebus storylines and it doesn't say what the music is. :-( I am really sorry to bother you.
Yo fully subbed, bell ringed, and fairly immediate channel watcher here (and big cerebus fan [neither here nor there]). I got no notification for this at all. Saw it in recommended vids on my TV Roku this morning. Just data to add to your channel algorithm studies.
Thank you for the information! This seems to be a common thing for my channel. Now, if I could only get some information as to *why* the algorithm specifically dislikes this channel. Anyone at TH-cam wanna help me out with this one? Anyone? :)
@@StrangeBrainPartscan’t wait to hear your take on Brought To Light. Maybe you can do a segments on Brought To Light, Joyce Brabner and The Two issues of Real War Stories she edited.
I Thi-i-i-ink I read some of this when it came out. The book had gone from a brilliant political comedy to a dragging screed, and I think I was looking at issues by rote by then. The anticlimaxes were huge. And I know I gave up when his misogyny was so rampant and toxic. At some point I’ll need to find my back issues and see what was happening. Thanks for this, and shining some light on his later work.
The hardcore misogyny was still about 4 years down the road when Jaka's Story came out, although there were some complaints about a particular scene in Church & State: Volume 2.
Having watched Strange Brain Parts other videos on Cerebus, I know it it’s very unlikely, but does anyone else feel Dave Sim’s downward spiral is some kind of Andy Kauffman-esque performance art piece to parallel the “die alone and unloved” end of Cerebus? Because it’s so baffling that it all went down the way it did. Then again, lots of creative people who make great works end up either becoming a shit head or revealing themselves to have always been shit heads.
To paraphrase myself (from one of the videos I made...I can't remember which one) I think it was ego that led to the downfall. He inserted himself into the comic at a time when it was a critical darling and he was getting a lot of attention for his views of the comic book industry. While I can't pretend to know the mind of Mr. Sim, it seems that he didn't think there would be such an outrage that his career would effectively be over. Certainly, he expected to piss a fair amount of people off. That's given. But not to the extent that he did. Since then, it appears he's doubled and tripled down on that position. So, no...I don't think it's a long term, Kaufman-esque performance piece.
@@StrangeBrainParts Ah man. That seems to have happened to a lot of creatives over the last few years. It’s a weird phenomenon to say the least. Thanks for taking a moment of your time to answer my question 👍
@@TheBeirdDuring the early years of Cerebus, Sim was said to show symptoms of schizophrenia when he was hospitalized after doing a lot of LSD. I don’t know what Sim would be diagnosed as to having, but that anecdote and, his heavy former drug use, explains to me why he acts the way he does.
That's why you have the separation between Dave Sim the writer and Dave Sim the person. Also... if you ever followed Cerebus from the beginning, you'd see Dave Sim changing over the years. Heh he was married to (Denni, I think?) he was very different and Cerebus was also a very different comic.
@@redherringoffshoot2341 Apparently. Don't know the guy, so... all I can infer from what he posted publicly over the years is available for anyone to see for themselves.
Hmmm, this is quite a turn. Correct me if I've got it wrong but aren't you the same one who complained about text heavy comics? When I first became interested in CEREBUS I dived into JAKA's STORY! Clueless about what Sim was going for, I felt the combo of full text pages and comics was too schizophrenic for my taste; 6 issues later, I surrendered! When occasionally peeking inside an issue here and there years later, it seemed to me that Sim was committed to this approach, while I wasn't interested at all! His text pages were dry to me; reflecting little of the wit in his dialogue! Did I want Stan Lee type melodrama? No, more like the literary "Chopin" of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing or Kirby's Wagnerian power found in his Fourth World captions! When it comes to reading prose, I want the sizzle included with my steak but didn't hear it in Sim's text pages.
It was acknowledged in passing within the video. I've covered the controversy in detail in the past and it wasn't relevant to the discussion at this time.
There are dozens of critiques of Dave Sim and his beliefs in Cerebus. However there is value in presenting a basis for viewers to make their own judgements. When that is no basis to judge, all that's left is a predetermined judgement for the viewer to adapt. Even the initial reason for a collective judgement is lost in repeat parroting.
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This is where Cerebus' storytelling achieves literary qualities that very few comics ever have been able to produce. Definitely a "King of the World" moment for Dave & Gerhard.
The Library by my house had the Cerebus Phone books and I read through them while I was recovering from getting my wisdom teeth taken out. Jaka's Story is a high light of the series for sure.
7:30 I'm pretty sure it was Jaka's real childhood nurse in the next cell, the nurse starts singing a song and asks Jaka if she recognizes it, she does and remembers it was sung to her every night as a child, especially during a severe injury
Cerebus is such an amazing story both on the page and off. It's really tragic how things spiraled into the ground
I always tell people they should read it but stop at issue 200.
@@harrybehemoth2751 What happens after issue 200?
@@JairBPena classic dave sim shenanigans
200 is kind of the climax of the story. The last hundred issues are sort of an extended denouement that becomes increasingly slow, depressing, and didactic. Dave Sim himself has said that the main story basically ends at 200.
What @harrybehemoth2751 said. The narrative focus changes dramatically in the final 100 issues. As I will explain in the Mothers & Daughters video, Sim ties up all the narrative threads that began with High Society by the end of issue #200. Issue #201 forwards uses the setting previously established, but it becomes a different comic altogether.
The drama around Sims purged all but Church and State from my mind. I read these issues but what I saw might as well be new info. It´s that gone.
Nothing about Cerebus is more tragic than comparing this story with what came after it.
Indeed!
Another wonderful Dissection.
I've finally tracked down all 13 Cerebus phone books. I can't wait to dive right in after I finish Love and Rockets.
What's love and rockets?
What’s your icon pic?
@@ataraxia7439 Vertigo Jam issue 1, painted by Glenn Fabry. One of the few images that have all of the original Vertigo characters pictured together.
@lpj2216 An alternative comic by brothers Gilbert and Jaime Hernandez. Super influential, and one of my favorite comics ever.
It's always a good day when SBP inches ever closer to the Shark Jump of Cerebus.
PS. The existence of the Tavern Keep Pud in this comic unnerves me. Frankly glad he was shot. A stain on the name.
Ha ha ha! Yeah, I didn't get into the slang definition of "pud," by the way. It kind of didn't fit into the examination.
I don't think I love any work of art as much as you seem to love Cerebus. Great video.
I do realize now with cerebus being in the future nursery could also reflect on the fact that since he'll never grow and change he is essentially an overgrown child. He lashes out at those around him and when doesn't get what he wants, has simplistic needs and wants. He doesn't grow and change and see complexity of things. He just wants to fight the final boss and get the treasure/empire that he can rule over forever.
I read it, issue by issue as they came out (of course, I got the t-shirt afterwards). It's pace was a pain after the high of Church & State, but Sim's graphic storytelling really was at a peak. Haven't read it since, but maybe I should give it a re-read and just endure the harsh bi-taste that comes with reading the last two thirds of the Cerebus run.
You know what? I had the T-Shirt too. "Fred loves your wife."
@@StrangeBrainPartsThat’s cool. I picked up a Cerebus Campaign ‘93 shirt this year. “Oh, Yeah? Well, Cerebus has never heard of you either.”
@@StrangeBrainParts I believe it was "Listen kid, Cerebus is in love with your wife" I remember getting questions about the shirt, but man - how do you explain something like that?
@astromus You're right! I remembered it wrong. I don't think I was ever asked about the shirt. And, honestly, I'm not sure how I would have replied if I was!
I suspect it's a different reading experience as a whole collection than it was issue by issue. I've some issues (as I can find 'em in dollar bins) but have mostly read the phonebooks.
I do love your Cerebus videos. Glad you got around to this, Jaka’s Story is one of the high points of comic art!! ‘Nuff said!
Cerebus issues 1-200: every issue better than the last. Cerebus issues 201-300: every issue worse than the last.
Jaka's Story was great but there were still good things in the tank for a while yet.
Oooh what I surprise. I really should sit down to read this
Welp. Looks like I have to reread this again - it's been a minute. Just a comment of thanks for continuing to break down this series and to do it so well. ☮️
I've read it, although it's probably been 25+ years since I read it from beginning to end.
I started reading Cerebus when I was 13. My first issue was partway through Melmoth, but I somehow kept buying it, all the way to 300. It may have helped that, when I started, Cerebus Bi-Weekly was also reprinting the early chapters of Church & State, including those Roach as Wolverine covers that almost got Sim a lawsuit.
Do you think Sim's weird attitude and lifestyle changes in the mid-90's are related to the LSD-induced breakdown he had around 1980? I think he certainly has some type of untreated personality disorder.
I can feel the visual metaphor in Oscar's panels expanding but didn't quite realize it until you said it. Now that I reflect upon it, I agree.
Thank you for reviewing this storyline. First graphic story I purchased from the Cerebus series. Love it!
The public library near my neighborhood when I was in high school had most of the original issues of Jaka's Story available for 10 cents each. Never got the entire series, but read everything I had plus several sporadic issues and later the Church & State phone books. Pity Sim lost his damn mind.
I love your Cerebus stuff! I hope you continue through to the end 😁👍🙏
Right now, Melmoth is written and Mothers & Daughters is about 70% complete. Beyond that, it's unlikely I will continue. The reason being is it's difficult to review without seeing the agenda in the material and being able to objectively assess it on its own merits. I'll like elaborate on that point for clarity during the Mothers & Daughters video.
@StrangeBrainParts I see I see. Well I'm at least glad that you covered a good portion of the series!! Thank you👍
How funny I was just watching other videos of yours thinking I wonder when the next cerebus would be. And there it was waiting for me
The fact that the narrative in Jaka's Story is just allowed to *breathe* always stood out to me. So many other comics and graphic novels do the equivalent of quick-cuts, throwing so much at you in as rapid a pace as possible that it is hard to keep track. Jaka's story is just allowed to be -- we get to sit with the characters and wait with them. How many other authors would take that kind of risk?
I’ve read the series twice EXCEPT for the last phone book. No grand plan, it just happened that way.
It's a slog.
It's good to see someone is reading Cerebus after issue 200. You read those phonebooks twice so I guess you're at least partially appreciating them. Rick's Story is great, isn't it? And what about the final part of Form and Void? Isn't that the most depressing thing ever?
Some people change getting old. It's not usual to see that in comic books, but Sim did that. I think Jaka's depiction in Going Home is sad but not unrealistic.
I did read these, as I read about the first 200 issues or more, until it got too surreal to follow. But I have to confess that I have no recollection of this story at all, even afte watching the video. Though I do remember that, at its best, Cerebus was one of the finest comics I read.
Always fascinating to hear about Cerebus. I wish they would reprint the series for posterity already. Speaking as a fan of the medium.
Sim has suffered for his art in so many ways. Wonderful channel. Subbed.
Bravo! Looking forward to seeing this analysis into the middle and latter volumes of Cerebus. Hoping you will take it past issue 200 ; )
I sold my collection of Cerebus phone books years ago, the only one I'd to still like to have a reading copy of is Jaka's Story.
Great episode as always.
Thank you!
Excellent work.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on Melmoth.
It’s always been near the top of my list of favourite comic storytelling ever.
Also, if I finally manage to sign up for Patreon, would you make my decade and cover CONCRETE, quite possibly the greatest comic ever... ???
Love your work, always an absolute pleasure.
Thank you very much! I don't promise a video about Concrete in exchange for joining Patreon, but I will say it's something I have picked away at from time to time. When I'll be done is another matter entirely.
@@StrangeBrainPartsI too would love a vid on Concrete. It was one of the first comics to expand my mind as to what’s possible in the medium.
Yes to all this. Really enjoyed all the Cerebus videos and Melmoth would be quite something. It feels like a very natural continuation from Jaka and yet at the same time the first time the series departs from be a story of Cerebus to a story indulging what's interesting Dave Sim with Cerebus cranked in. I mean its brilliant and I love it, but its no Jaka's Story.
Oh and definitely a Concrete video would be fantastic. One of the very few series that gets close to first 200 issues Cerebus.
Gonna chime in with the Concrete love. Easily the series I looked forward to the most in the ago of the 80s.
Sim is a master of the art, his lows surpass the highs from many of his industry peers. I'm not even sure it is fair to call many other writer/artists Dave Sim's peer because of what he was able to do independently in the art form. The Cerebus run was truly unprecedented despite its flaws. It still makes me sad knowing the most money Sim ever made from his work was from that Spawn comic, but also thrilled he was able to make what he did and get that wider exposure. Although I'm not sure how many hard core Cerebus readers came from the Spawn fandom, but there had to be a few I suppose. Like 5 or so. Ok, maybe 5 is being a little too generous or fanciful, but I'm sure there was a couple.
I think he also did well with the TMNT crossover too. But I have no information to back that up. Although, upfront, Spawn paid a *whole* lot better.
@@StrangeBrainParts I don't know how I forgot the TMNT crossover, but I'm sure it could only have been a fraction of those crazy Spawn dollars.
I've never been a huge fan of McFarlane, but what he did at the time for so many of the best voices in the industry that had never seen the financial success that the Image founders enjoyed was so very commendable.
I know of at least two people who became Cerebus readers thanks to his Spawn appearance. I was one of them (I was aware of Cerebus before that Spawn issue though - I already had the TMNT issue and I'd picked up a random issue of Cerebus just to see what all the fuss was about, but my twelve year old self found it to be too wordy, boring and confusing). I was already planning to drop Spawn and the rest of the Image books before the Cerebus issue, but something about that issue piqued my curiosity and made me give Cerebus a second look, and I never looked back.
The other person I know of who discovered Cerebus through Spawn is Ed Piskor of Cartoonist Kayfabe fame. He's told the story a couple of times on that channel about how that Spawn issue made him go out and get all the Cerebus phonebooks that had been released so far.
@@carlgibson285 As in most cases, Ed is good company to be in. That is probably the largest case because I was in a similar boat but with the Turtles and Spawn around the same time. I had seen some Cerebus as just one of the things young kids in comic shops comes across and shrugs until picking up the newest X book in the 90s. I, thankfully, was always more into back issues and learning the history of characters while building collections than chasing down all the latest gimmicks when I was a kid. During my Turtle craze I knew there was a role playing game, which I promptly picked up and started playing a few years before I'd touch D&D as well as the OG Turtle comics. I had to save for weeks and weeks of allowance plus holiday or birthday money and probably some begging and pleading to get some issues back then, the Cerebus issue of TMNT was one of them. I picked up a couple issues at a flea market at some point of time that ended up on the "I'll read this someday pile/box" then the Spawn came out and I dug those out and it as still a little ahead of what I was reading due to my age, but I'd start grabbing cheap back issues here and there because I really liked the art. Eventually the story got its hooks in me, but without the Spawn idk if I would have ever went back to those issues, even if that book was mostly hot garbage.
So we only need a couple more and we'll know all the people that started reading it due to Spawn, lol. In all seriousness I guarantee Dave probably got a decent little chunk of lifetime readers from that. Even it was 100 people, that 100 people probably really mattered to Sim over the long run.
Isn't it ironic that Cerebus's best arc nearly involves Cereus himself?
He's even less active in Melmoth, at least until the final chapter.
Indeed! Cerebus is functionally inactive during Melmoth. He literally sits in a chair and does nothing until the final issue.
One of the things I love about Cerebus is that it isn't always about Cerebus. I appreciate the stories that focus on other characters and build out the world. That's one of the aspects I'd like to bring into my own stories. I want to build a world that can work with or without the ostensible main/titular character.
I've got all volumes, the ones with all the text, I basically skipped those.
Tell me if I missed out on the overall story.
Big elephant, I'm thinking nervous breakdown, maybe schizophrenia, a wasted opportunity that could have been one of the most outstanding works in comic book history.
The way it evolved from its first rough issues to the amazing artwork by these two talented guys until the end is beyond perfection.
The story on the other hand veers from perfection to wtf is going on with the writer?
Its probably been a good two decades since I've read the whole thing, I'm going to watch more videos and see if they might get me motivated to read them again
Exactly like Oscar Wilde, Dave Sim mistook himself for God's gift and had a long, long way to fall. (Ironic, considering he never left Kitchener. I grew up there and can affirm that its heights are not exactly dizzying.)
However, I think a lot of people overreact to Sim's self-immolation. Primo: He was _always_ an arse. Segundo: That did not prevent him from making _High Society,_ _Church & State,_ _Jaka's Story,_ and _Melmoth._
From his writings, it seems to me that in early life, he was traumatized by cold, dragonish, WASP women, with anger issues. (cf, Mrs Henrot-Gutch, Cirin, and Thatcher.) Well, I can certainly relate. There were an awful lot of those about in Kitchener - from the 1960s up until the late 1990s. And a great many of them became teachers and childcare workers, for reasons of necessity rather than choice, I don't doubt.
Furthermore, it seems he became one of those Brando-like men, who prized the opportunity to sow wild oats above all other pleasures. And resented the social constructs (to which women faced far more pressure to adhere) that favoured monogamy and family. Fair enough. We have examples of rebels who never married - Al Pacino - and those who married constantly - Tony Curtis. If Dave had lived in Los Angeles, New York, or even Toronto, his life might have been very different. But Kitchener is a small and conservative little burg, whose people never had much ambition to buck the status quo. _Siddown and stop tryin' ta act like yer somethin' special,_ they used to tell me all the time.
Add to this the fact that at least some part of his outsize audience hero-worshipped him. And that he was under unrelenting pressure to produce *_original content_* for a good 40 years, and it's easy to imagine how he might have nursed a small handful of personal grievances into a fractured cosmology. One that is perhaps unforgivable. But then, it was us, the fans, who were begging him - month after month - to entertain us, with whatever happened to be passing through his mind. And it's not as if he had an editorial committee to talk him off the ledge. Or some other writers on the team to take the lead for a while, when things all got a bit much for him.
To top it all, he's probably got one of those personalities that doubles down, whenever he feels his back's against the wall. Certainly, we've known more and more people like that, especially since 2017.
In the end, we're all flawed, weak, egocentric, and mortal humans. With more to recommend against us than for us. Dave Sim happens to be the creator of a handful of visual marvels. That doesn't mean he's a nice person. Or even a good one. Like Jim Morrison, he pursued his individual djinn until she led him off the deep end. He left behind some diamonds. Scattered amongst the tedious, droning, and vaguely misogynistric blues melodies. Which we may choose to forgive him, because of gems like _Riders on the Storm._ Or _High Society._
*Final Note:* I ain't sayin' he ain't no misogynist. The armchair psychologist in me finds it interesting that Cerebus treats the rather traditionally womanly Red Sophia as contemptable and ugly. Whilst the female characters he seems intrigued by - Jaka, Astoria, The Regency Elf, Theresa, and The Countess - all have short hair or boyish bangs, and rather un-curvy physiques. (Mind you: It was the early 1980s. Princess Di, and Patrick Nagel, and all that. So maybe he was just a fashion victim.)
Fantastic job. Cerebus is one of the best, well crafted, artistic works that will ever be 😂
First like makes right
I think the thing which imo makes the later half of cerebus work is jakas discussion with thatcher. Of course in this story we are meant to sympathize with Jaka but she never really refutes thatchy. Ultimately as much as Jakas dancing is an art its also her trying seduce and capture the male attention she previously lacked. As much as Sim liked Jaka he could have had her be 100% in the right but its the fundamental truth of thatchy which makes the story into a real work of art and not just propaganda and it does wonders later in going home as I dont think the Jaka shown here is all that different from the one shown later. The difference is that Dave Sim has just shifted perspective. Feminist dave sim rendered the fantasy male hero archetype ij its true form as a literal disgusting pig and anti-feminist dave sim renders the princess whore archetype (see Mary Jane and Jean Grey) in its true form as a self obsessed neurotic. (Ill note that im not defending dave sim in his takes on women generally he quite simply hates the entire gender of women to an insane degree to a point far beyond not liking feminism as much as he likes go claim otherwise)
"Ultimately as much as Jakas dancing is an art its also her trying seduce and capture the male attention she previously lacked."
are you saying that it is because Sim thought this and expressed these ideas through Thatcher, that is "which makes the story into a real work of art and not just propaganda"?
@@ytubeanon Im saying to a degree both sides are right. Which is what makes the conflict compelling. If jaka was 100% in the right and everyone else in the wrong the story would lack any long term impact. You cant deny that jakas art is just her titillating men you also cant deny it has an aesthetic and awe inspiring impact on those who view it. There is truth in both perspectives which is fitting for a story about perspective and subjectivity of truth.
@@FemboyCatGaming I guess I don't agree it's titillating men, it might be if she were a stripper... Thatcher causing Rick to hit Jaka, while she didn't get to speak, that wasn't 2 sides of a story. I know Mr. Withers, the innkeeper, wrote lustful things in his journal about her, but is that her fault? isn't it the same as putting the responsibility on women to not excite men because they can't control themselves...
I noticed a letter in Cerberus #151 in 1991 by someone named Connie saying the same thing I'm writing here lol
Really lovely breakdown
I remember when this was being discussed by all the dudes into comics.
Generally agree with your sentiments on the story, sir. I would say the diary section of Reads - with the Hemingway hunting trip - would give Jaka's Story a run for its money in the storytelling department, but it isn't quite as resonant emotionally.
I've said it before... Cerebus contains some of the best comics I've ever read and some of the worst comics I've ever read. Nobody puts pages together like Sim, before or since, and it's downright criminal that the cluttered, dank chambers of his Rupert-Murdoch-addled mind keep those pages from being studied by practitioners of the craft. All that brilliance, completely wasted.
what is the significance of Oscar the Writer being an Oscar Wilde doppelganger?
Its that dave sim veiwed Oscar Wilde as two separate people: one was a pretentious, self obsessed party animal who is seen in Jakas story, the other was the man who wrote the portrait of dorian grey a novel Dave liked who is seen in melmoth. Dave Sim viewed oscar wilde as a genius writer who blew all his potential being a public facing ass hat who partied all the time. This led Dave to say quite prophetically that hes rather be a grouchy old man everyone hated as long as it meant he created his masterpiece.
Also, a lot of the side characters are based on celebrities or famous fictional characters. This includes Groucho Marx, Margaret Thatcher, Mick Jagger & Keith Richards, Yosemite Sam & Elric Of Melnibone (those are combined into one character). The Roach character was used to parody Captain America, Moon Knight, Wolverine, The Sandman, The Punisher, and other comic book characters.
Interesting
Cerebus after Melmoth became a story about Dave Sims reaction to life and women , it just became uninteresting and kinda sad …….Sim and Gerhard were so dynamic and talented, Jakas Story was the Apex and it was down hill for me from here …. I’d been reading from about issue 30 or so and it was really depressing seeing how the series eventually continued and ended. It’s even more depressing seeing how he continued to publish more and more irrelevant cut and paste Cerebus stories over the last 6 years ……at his best Dave Sim was probably one of the great comic creators ever and that’s not at all hot air , just go back and read High Society, Church and State and Jakas Story!
Greatest comics series of all time, except that 5 yr period where that took place in a bar
Lol. That's this book and the next one.
I've actually always wanted to attempt to devour one of the "phone books" as the fat Cerebus collections were refered to by Wizard magazine in the 90s. Would it be fair to say that Cerebus was kinda like a serialized story which George RR Martin might have created if he had been working on the staff of Mad magazine?
Maybe at the beginning. The humor gradually fades into the background as the years pass.
Not really it's more like it starts as a parody of conan, becomes a sort of parodic political thriller, and eventually becomes the vehicle for a very weird guy to talk about whatever he wants to talk about/
I would say it's pretty amusing for about the first 50 issues. After that, the humour falls off and is used sparingly. Once you hit issue 100, the humour seems a bit out of place and the tone is pretty serious.
@@StrangeBrainParts And the evolution of the art from cartoony to elegant and technical is also pretty distinctive. I'm going to dive in. Is "Women" the one with the Rolling Stones in it?
I should check this series out
Please, do that to yourself. Best comicbook ever. And the last 100 issues are good too. It's just that they are sad, disappointing, frustrating and not funny, not that they are not masterful.
So, pardon my ignorance, but I live in Europe.... how can I buy cerebus?
Is Cerebus' Dave Sim's main work, did he create any other big projects in his time?
He was doing lots of touring circuits, but he wouldn't do original work until judenhauss, galmorpuss, and the strange death of alex raymond after Cerebus.
Cerebus is definitely his main work. He spent 27 years writing, drawing, and publishing it; mostly on a monthly basis. He didn't have time to create much else until it was completed. And by that time he had burned most of his bridges in the comics industry.
Cerebus was Sim's *only* work during this time. He wouldn't do anything else until it concluded in 2004.
Cerebus is the most comic book ever
What was the tune in the openings of the earlier videos? It sounds so familiar and beautiful...
The music is credited in the description. So, just expand the details and there's the full credit.
@@StrangeBrainParts I just tried that in the various (wonderful by the way!) videos on Cerebus storylines and it doesn't say what the music is. :-( I am really sorry to bother you.
Oh, it's no bother at all! The opening music I used on earlier video was Abbey Cadence (Sting) by Twin Musicom.
@@StrangeBrainParts Yaaay! Much obliged! :-)
Yo fully subbed, bell ringed, and fairly immediate channel watcher here (and big cerebus fan [neither here nor there]). I got no notification for this at all. Saw it in recommended vids on my TV Roku this morning.
Just data to add to your channel algorithm studies.
Thank you for the information! This seems to be a common thing for my channel. Now, if I could only get some information as to *why* the algorithm specifically dislikes this channel. Anyone at TH-cam wanna help me out with this one? Anyone? :)
do you plan to cover alan moore brought to light at somepoint.
Quite likely, yes. As part of the Obscure Moore series.
@@StrangeBrainPartscan’t wait to hear your take on Brought To Light. Maybe you can do a segments on Brought To Light, Joyce Brabner and The Two issues of Real War Stories she edited.
I Thi-i-i-ink I read some of this when it came out. The book had gone from a brilliant political comedy to a dragging screed, and I think I was looking at issues by rote by then. The anticlimaxes were huge. And I know I gave up when his misogyny was so rampant and toxic. At some point I’ll need to find my back issues and see what was happening. Thanks for this, and shining some light on his later work.
The hardcore misogyny was still about 4 years down the road when Jaka's Story came out, although there were some complaints about a particular scene in Church & State: Volume 2.
I don't think you read any of this.
Having watched Strange Brain Parts other videos on Cerebus, I know it it’s very unlikely, but does anyone else feel Dave Sim’s downward spiral is some kind of Andy Kauffman-esque performance art piece to parallel the “die alone and unloved” end of Cerebus?
Because it’s so baffling that it all went down the way it did. Then again, lots of creative people who make great works end up either becoming a shit head or revealing themselves to have always been shit heads.
To paraphrase myself (from one of the videos I made...I can't remember which one) I think it was ego that led to the downfall. He inserted himself into the comic at a time when it was a critical darling and he was getting a lot of attention for his views of the comic book industry. While I can't pretend to know the mind of Mr. Sim, it seems that he didn't think there would be such an outrage that his career would effectively be over. Certainly, he expected to piss a fair amount of people off. That's given. But not to the extent that he did.
Since then, it appears he's doubled and tripled down on that position. So, no...I don't think it's a long term, Kaufman-esque performance piece.
@@StrangeBrainParts Ah man. That seems to have happened to a lot of creatives over the last few years. It’s a weird phenomenon to say the least.
Thanks for taking a moment of your time to answer my question 👍
@@TheBeirdDuring the early years of Cerebus, Sim was said to show symptoms of schizophrenia when he was hospitalized after doing a lot of LSD. I don’t know what Sim would be diagnosed as to having, but that anecdote and, his heavy former drug use, explains to me why he acts the way he does.
@@jikorijo4516 Thanks for the info.
@@TheBeird No problem.👍
Oscar's character design reminds me of Stephen Fry.
Having such a compelling female-lead story is very ironic when you consider Dave Sim's views on women.
That's why you have the separation between Dave Sim the writer and Dave Sim the person.
Also... if you ever followed Cerebus from the beginning, you'd see Dave Sim changing over the years. Heh he was married to (Denni, I think?) he was very different and Cerebus was also a very different comic.
@@thetabletopskirmisher so I’m other words, he used to be a better person than he is now
@@redherringoffshoot2341 Apparently. Don't know the guy, so... all I can infer from what he posted publicly over the years is available for anyone to see for themselves.
holy sh!t, is it mandatory to be a cringy zoomer in order to be a comic fan?
@@candide1065that's most of the fans of any entertainment medium nowadays
Didn't Cerebus end up on *Europa after 'Church and State'?
Hmmm, this is quite a turn. Correct me if I've got it wrong but aren't you the same one who complained about text heavy comics? When I first became interested in CEREBUS I dived into JAKA's STORY! Clueless about what Sim was going for, I felt the combo of full text pages and comics was too schizophrenic for my taste; 6 issues later, I surrendered!
When occasionally peeking inside an issue here and there years later, it seemed to me that Sim was committed to this approach, while I wasn't interested at all! His text pages were dry to me; reflecting little of the wit in his dialogue! Did I want Stan Lee type melodrama? No, more like the literary "Chopin" of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing or Kirby's Wagnerian power found in his Fourth World captions! When it comes to reading prose, I want the sizzle included with my steak but didn't hear it in Sim's text pages.
Wow. I amazed that you didn't devote a huge portion to Dave Sim controversy.
It was acknowledged in passing within the video. I've covered the controversy in detail in the past and it wasn't relevant to the discussion at this time.
@@StrangeBrainParts💯 - no point in rehashing it now.
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Pretty interesting
Come on bro a centrist "separating the art from the artist" take on Dave Sims is absolutely not it
Do they do this here?
Is it centrist or objective? U decide. Although, you apparently have already.
@joshakazamo Another country heard from 🤦🏼♂️
There are dozens of critiques of Dave Sim and his beliefs in Cerebus. However there is value in presenting a basis for viewers to make their own judgements. When that is no basis to judge, all that's left is a predetermined judgement for the viewer to adapt. Even the initial reason for a collective judgement is lost in repeat parroting.