Cerebus: Church And State (Issues 51-112/113)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 79

  • @otaconpunished
    @otaconpunished 2 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    This is fascinating, I don't think anyone has covered this with such depth.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I do believe you are correct.

    • @scottwarren3948
      @scottwarren3948 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@StrangeBrainParts have you checked out Sanctuary Of Reality’s issue by issue summary episodes?

  • @TheSkaOreo
    @TheSkaOreo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Damn pushing these out like a mother! Can’t wait to watch!

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      I'm doing my best to give this channel some forward momentum. Mind you, covering Cerebus isn't exactly the way. But, you know, I do what I can. Now to start editing that sixteen part series about the X-Men...

    • @zackeryparkerson
      @zackeryparkerson 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@StrangeBrainParts Like…ALL of X-Men?

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Hah! No, probably not. The X-Men is difficult to tackle because just about everyone has a gajillion videos about the title. I've nothing to add to that discussion.

  • @samwill7259
    @samwill7259 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Isn't it tragic when you're learning about a story like this
    A one of a kind masterpiece, something that changed independent comics forever and would be spoken of in hallowed hall forever...
    Save that we already know it ends in a misogynistic meltdown?

    • @polaris_draws
      @polaris_draws 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Parts of Cerebus do deserve that hallowed treatment, on a purely technical level you could argue the entire series could. But there's just so much poison attached to the whole project, and since it is (or at least presents as) on continus narrative, it's hard to separate the components

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      That is the self-awareness that pervades each video...the knowledge that is undermines itself and its potential legacy at a certain point.

    • @polaris_draws
      @polaris_draws 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@StrangeBrainParts You're awareness of this in all of your Cerebus video's, but specifically these arc by arc breakdowns, is what makes them special. One thing I've noticed is how in each of these arcs you point out flaws that continue throughout the series. Specifically in High society where there's a sense Sim decided the story would run 24 issues and crammed the last bits of the story in there to fit that count. The last 3rd of the series has something of the opposite problem

    • @choosecarefully408
      @choosecarefully408 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That right there expresses an ironic expectation. Sim's real life behavior is stuff we would easily recognize as being those of a villain in _any_ fiction. What do *we do* when Real Life doesn't live down to our fictional or childish expectations of it?
      Blame the victim.
      It's _extraordinary_ how consistent this is. Joss Whedon, Dan Harmon, even Harvey _Weinstein_ is supposed to evoke shock or horror? & then, so what?
      Well, y'all don't get over it but also y'all don't want to fully _acknowledge that_ anyone you ever elevated to any status emotionally can be just human. But the tension this creates within us needs an outlet, so we forgive the perpetrators.
      Which *_requires_* blaming the victim. The higher we mentally elevate the person, the more quickly this turnabout plays out. So it's quickest with politicians.
      No matter how much I warn people in advance how the following *will* affect them they all always end up turning on me thus proving my point, but every time, people can't stop themselves. You all *know* lobbying would be made illegal if it already wasn't, & you all know why: once can't first _take_ these amounts of $ from any corporation allaregreen.us/ then side against it. If the Guest Star in a police drama played a person in authority doing this, you would know immediately how the episode would end. But in real life...
      Y'all would rather bury Maddie's th-cam.com/video/1CE0fMdXjYM/w-d-xo.html entire family alive than deal with the real life consequences/abandon one's infantile beliefs in politicians as Our Protectors. Thus perpetuating this Rule By Corporate Greed ensuring that the villains win every time.

  • @Triple_R_93
    @Triple_R_93 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Thank you for taking on this very daunting task on analyzing the entirety of Cerebus. I like that you touch on both the contraversy of Dave Sim, but also addressing what is on the page. Cerebus is one of the most complicated and important works. The influence it had on comics and art are important, and the art is of course gorgeous, but Sim especially losing his mind and burning his own series to the ground ruins it all. As you mentioned the series and character both die alone and unmourned

  • @KalleVilenius
    @KalleVilenius 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Thanks for reminding me how beautiful a book Cerebus is. Also nice to hear about Jim Shooter doing something positive.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I'm not one who thinks Mr. Shooter is the evil entity he's made out to be. Then again, I never worked for him. :)

  • @MagusX1
    @MagusX1 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I am very very picky about what channels I watch on TH-cam. I find most comic book TH-camrs to be just not informative and focus on why their opinion matters with out any substance. You on the other hand are to me the Best TH-cam Channel period on Comic Books. Your videos have an intelligence and love for the medium that excels over many TH-camrs or even comic book media in general. Your thoughtful dissection of Cerebus is one of the many examples why I absolutely adore this channel. In ways you remind me of Jeremy Parish’s channel who does the same thoughtful and intelligent discussion except on Retro Videogames. Again my props to you, your channel is fantastic to say the least.

  • @dinkydotzero
    @dinkydotzero 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    one of the very best comic shows on the facetube

  • @newsrim
    @newsrim 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Thanks so much for this. The visual storytelling of the Sim/Gerhard team needs to be talked up for the benefit of every comics artist who hasn't seen it. So much creativity, so much technique. The neglect of Cerebus may be understandable but it's the medium's loss.

  • @KulchurKat
    @KulchurKat 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Probably your best Cerebus episode to date. Pretty encyclopaedic in covering all the angles of the work and its production. Great stuff!

  • @morockapdx7174
    @morockapdx7174 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Man. If you keep bringing up Cerberus, I am going to have to go out and buy it. And I am not ready for that kind of commitment. Good work. Keep it up, and thank you.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      The good news is you don't have to commit to the entire series. In fact, once I get to that point, I will recommend skipping all of the text pieces in Reads and then stopping at issue 200. Which is the volume titled Minds.

  • @seedhillbruisermusic7939
    @seedhillbruisermusic7939 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I first bought a Cerebus comic from my comic store aged 14 and I fell in love with it. It was from the early part of Church & State when Weisshaupt first shows Cerebus the cannons. I bought further issues when I could but I gave up during Jakas Story. Much later I ended up buying all the big books when they were released. Got to be honest I didn't like a lot of it, though I'm glad I got the whole collection, but Church & State is definitely my favourite run of the story, it's Cerebus at its best.

  • @zackeryparkerson
    @zackeryparkerson 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    These have been such interesting and insightful deep dives. Thanks for doing these.

  • @GalacticGoober
    @GalacticGoober 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The pain of having to hold myself back from watching these newer Cerebus vids cuz I'll be starting a first read-through soon is VERY strong lol

    • @GalacticGoober
      @GalacticGoober ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Alright I can finally watch this one now

  • @maniezoalex
    @maniezoalex 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    To me is hell getting my hands on cerebus volumes here in Brazil, so your videos are gold for me

  • @residentgrigo4701
    @residentgrigo4701 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    It's easy to forget how good the art was when Cerberus was on top.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Mr. Sim made it easy to forget during Reads. :)

  • @ZillMob
    @ZillMob ปีที่แล้ว

    15:50 hey Gerhard is wearing my shirt! One of my favorites despite never getting any comments... someday

    • @ZillMob
      @ZillMob ปีที่แล้ว

      19:31 there it is again

  • @beeache4895
    @beeache4895 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It's here! Every new Cerebus video you make is like Christmas morning for me. Excellent analysis as always :)

  • @WalterLiddy
    @WalterLiddy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's amazing that you're able to continue to produce high quality videos that are consistently worthwhile, given your limited audience. This should be THE go-to source for comics fans who want to learn more about their favorite titles and creators, or the history of the medium and its content. Thank you for your continued efforts. I know there's negligible financial reward in it. People who can offer the insights you do are rare, and we fans appreciate your willingness to share.

  • @fl8m76
    @fl8m76 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm very glad you are making this series. I found Cerebus randomly many years ago and eventually collected it all. It was a strange journey into a man's mind through the medium of comics. By the end I no longer enjoyed it and didn't care for the creator but had to respect the work. Learning far more detail about the story and Dave Sim is very interesting indeed. I'm looking forward to the rest of this series.

  • @gereadmcdonald2632
    @gereadmcdonald2632 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Loving this series of videos, recently got into the series (read through High Society and Church and State) and felt frustrated that there's not a lot of videos that go in depth about the plot itself rather than the later views of the writer. My biggest artistic gribe with Church and State personally wasn't the photocopied art but the zig zag panneling that occured a lot throughout the story (specifically in the Astoria trial scene), it works for me in moments but I found it to be a slightly lazy way to handle page space and it looked especially off to me in the phone book.

  • @markfalko3343
    @markfalko3343 ปีที่แล้ว

    You're videos are great! Cerebus is one of my favorite comics, thank you for your videos on it 🙂🙂

  • @benrobinson9366
    @benrobinson9366 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Hell, yes! Cannot wait!

  • @PERart6231
    @PERart6231 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great work Master Video !!!

  • @enocescalona
    @enocescalona ปีที่แล้ว +1

    hey i found out Cerebus is actually back, with the Cerebus in Hell and Cerebus 1# comics. did you see them?

  • @bingolingo7021
    @bingolingo7021 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I didn't even know about the controversy, until you talked about it.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Really, it's all anyone talks about...if the subject is ever broached. And for good reason.

  • @paulnash9851
    @paulnash9851 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    These are brilliant video essays.
    This channel is very, very good.

  • @boazdror
    @boazdror 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This was a wonderful video, thank you so much for the in depth analysis and for bringing back my teenage years reading this series... Wondering if you've taken a look at Eric Hoffman's "Cerebus the Barbarian Messiah," which collects essays on the comic. You might get a kick out of it.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Oh! I've never heard of that. I might have to look that up. Thank you for the suggestion!

    • @boazdror
      @boazdror 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@StrangeBrainParts You're welcome! Thank you again for your astute and carefully-thought-out analysis!

  • @emanuelcruzcarrasco4277
    @emanuelcruzcarrasco4277 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Will you cover miracleman the silver age when is finished?

  • @laemotica8405
    @laemotica8405 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a great video. You put a lot of thought into it. I think you correctly identify the flaws. I think the flaws kill the story, though. Characters have no consistency and stuff just happens. It’s not a very engaging read. A lot of it just reads like a drunk college student giving their opinions on government and religion.

  • @joedent3323
    @joedent3323 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is the meaning of this visual at 22:47 , please? I am confused.
    Cheers!
    "LiL'JpD."

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's a page from issue 112/113. Cerebus is sitting in the ruins after returning from the moon.

  • @MrChristopherMolloy
    @MrChristopherMolloy 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Were these insights into series evolve over decades of rereading or were they immediately apparent?

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I don't consider anything especially insightful. :) But some aspects were immediately obvious, while others revealed themselves over time. Especially panel construction. That's more subtle when you're simply reading the story. It influences the pace and tone (etcetera) and becomes more apparent when you sit and analyze how it's influencing the reading experience.

    • @MrChristopherMolloy
      @MrChristopherMolloy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@StrangeBrainParts Thanks again.

  • @juanchangkane
    @juanchangkane 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As always, another great analysis from Cerebus. It is evident that the further you go through these videos, it is harder to separate the work from the artist. Obviously, this is because Sim's worldview is increasingly radical, myopic, and horrible.
    In short: Cerebus has horrible content, but on a visual and compositional level, it's beautiful.

  • @elextrano7597
    @elextrano7597 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This was the Berserk the eclipse before berserk

  • @joedent3323
    @joedent3323 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love your CeReBuS videos. They are easily the best on TH-cam.
    Can I ask when you think the next one will be out? Im hungry for it/and I don't want to miss it!
    Cheers for the good work;
    "LiL'JpD."

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm still polishing the script for the next video. So, it may be a while. But it could be next week. It all depends on when I feel satisfied that I've covered all that needs to be covered concerning the topic at hand.

  • @penelopegreene
    @penelopegreene 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Love for SBP, hope Sims' faith will return him to popular art.

    • @polaris_draws
      @polaris_draws 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      As fascinating as that would be to watch... I really really really don't see that happening. Sim just... I don't see a route that exist in the popular comic's scene and a route that Sim would want to take. Again, I would be fascinated to be wrong, but I'd also be very very surprised

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I don't see that happening. Nor is that my intent with these videos.

    • @DefNotTy2
      @DefNotTy2 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@StrangeBrainParts he was supposed to take over writing duties on Ethan Van Scivers Cyberfrog a few yrs back. Then EVS caught hell bc of the Sim / female / minors stories. Sim was promptly dropped. Haven't heard much about him since.
      Fantastic vids, glad you're back.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      That's what I read, too. Mr. Sim, with others, completed The Strange Death Of Alex Raymond last year. I've not gotten a copy, though.

    • @penelopegreene
      @penelopegreene 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@StrangeBrainParts Alas, one hopes for the best, but naturally expects the worst. Can't tell you how much the more thoughtful young guys collecting when I was a kid were intrigued by the first half of the series.

  • @blastman2761
    @blastman2761 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Comparing the artistic merit of Cerebus to Akira. Is a big stretch.

  • @ANIpJs
    @ANIpJs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Honestly, while I respect what Cerebus is on a conceptual level and even see the artistic merits of it. I am one who I'd genuinely offended by most of Dave Sims views and opinions. And the man's personal views are so repugnant to me that I have a hard time engaging with it. The women hating, the Fox News world view of a "liberal" society of sodomy and decay. Contrary to what you might think by this post, I'm not some hyper triggered snowflake that has a hard time with edgy content. Ffs I own psychical copies of Garth Ennis's Crossed, as well as all of the Absolute Preacher books. I live off edgy transgressive stuff. But the way Sim's goes about expressing himself is just ugly, nakedly hateful and not completely ration either in prose or actual content. Have had bad breakups with crazy bitches. Didn't make me fundamentally hate all women.
    I've tried with Cerebus, a few times and I just have a hard time separating the artist from the art.
    So I appreciate more analytical overviews. Summarizing of the story and a more educational view on the subject. Because in spite of the ego involved. Cerebus is a important work in the medium and should be understood and studied. It just sucks that the creator behind it has gone out of his way to be unlikable.
    It's actually quite impressive, normally I can still enjoy works by people I disagree with or who use story telling devises that I personally fine distasteful. Alan Moore, for example. I don't think I've read a single story by him that didn't include r*pe, a topic which. I do think should be handled with a bit more care than it usually sees. The only story I can think of is maybe a Superman one. But that's probably because he never got the chance to.
    Hell I still consider myself a Warren Ellis fan, granted there's a asterix by that with anyone in the know about comics. But I just can't get past Sims.

    • @StrangeBrainParts
      @StrangeBrainParts  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This is a very fair perspective and accurately describes my own attempt to objectively evaluate the material. However, we are rapidly approaching the point where that objectivity is impossible to maintain. At which point, I have no intention of proceeding further and attempting to find merit in the work. There's only so much reconciliation possible.

  • @meowco69
    @meowco69 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great art. Story wise? Zzzz....

  • @joedent3323
    @joedent3323 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice :)