please don't sleep with my cousin 😳 r/AITA 1 800 Drama Podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2024
- 1 800 Drama Episode 18 is live! In this week's r/AITA deep dive, we discuss celibacy, the nightmare return of a school girl, and what to do when your phobe of a friend gets a bit too much ... 👀 Grab a cuppa and let’s go fishing 🎣
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Apparently both marmite and vegemite contain no animal products, and are basically the same thing, but the veg in vegemite comes from the added vegetable flavors of celery, onion, and other spices.
As an American, I get weird looks for liking and eating, no matter which one I go with.
Also, the little jars are great gifts for my vegan & vegetarian friends.
I just found a gluten free vegemite!
Ann Reardon from How To Cook That has made a whole video about vegemite where she goes over the history of how it was developed to replace marmite (that wasn't available in Australia) and then tries to make her own. I can warmly recommend checking that out if anyone wants to understand what marmite and vegemite really are.
(Personally I can't stand marmite, although on first taste it was actually fine, but very soon my body started telling me not to touch that by refusing to taste the saltiness and only highlighting the bitterness. That sort of thing happens to me a lot though, I rarely get used to new flavours, much more likely to go completely off even ones I've liked for years.)
I'm Australian and grew up eating Vegemite on toast and in sandwiches, I love it so much! I've tried Marmite once and nearly threw up, it tasted stale and off, genuinely one of the worst things I've ever tasted. Those flavours and spices make a huge difference.. xD
I just want to reiterate to anyone who needs to hear it
The silent treatment is a massive red flag. If someone is ignoring you as punishment then you do not want them in your life.
Sincerely, someone who didn't recognise it as a red flag for far too long.
Agreed so much! Not talking to someone for a bit in order to calm down is one thing (sometimes we need to calm down before being able to talk about something, which can sometimes takes 2-3 days), but refusing to talk to someone as a punishment is not okay at all. It is manipulative and can even be emotional and/or mental abusive.
Eh I have used the silent treatment in the past towards my emotionally/physically abusive parents when I felt they had done something unforgivable
@@jess-mx Yeah, but that's a VERY different situation. Giving the silent treatment to abusers is very different than giving the silent treatment to someone who annoyed you or made a mistake they are willing to owe up to.
Ya, i sometimes need to take a day or so to get my thoughts in order to be able to talk about something, but for the love of chinchillas tell the other person that you just need a moment/a day. Dont just ghost.
As an asexual person, it feels bad to me to have a sexual status shared by someone else, especially at the start of a friendship/relationship. I think it was definitely wrong to share it and cousin is justifiably upset. When and how to reveal your sexual status is often talked about in the community and there isn't one right answer. Celibacy is not the same as asexual, but there are similarities and overlap.
Exactly! A part of that overlap is the agency to have a sexual experience if it feels right. It sucks that OP stepped in and basically took away his cousin's right to say yes or no
I would want to know sooner as early as possible tbh
I'm also ace and I get that, but also sharing a marginalized identity and sharing a religious stance are very different things.
It's not JUST sexual status. It has more to do with the fundamentalist views at play I think.
Fundies do make a big show of "purity" when engaging in celibacy, so it's complicated to know what is and isn't okay to discuss with outsiders.
I'm not saying what op did was okay, but I think it's not as clear cut as I'd like regardless of my feelings
@@cofeejoe2882 It might, but it's an assumption that it's only due to religious beliefs and that those beliefs come from a fundamentalist perspective.
I’m ace too and while I do agree, I also know some people who are very open about waiting for marriage and it’s something they are proud about. So I could see if the cousin thought that was the case that they wouldn’t think it was a very personal thing to share.
jamie’s metaphor moment needs to be a regular segment that was so fabulous
As a fellow adhd gabber who's mouth starts before my brain: get used to saying "sorry please continue" the SECOND you realize you have started talking over someone. It isnt a 100% solution but it helps to keep people from outright hating you.
Also I say that OP is not the ahole but JUST because the only way I have seen people actually try to make change on their overtalking habit is to snap at them/someone doing it while they are watching. Seeing my coworkers get frustrated at an overtalking fellow coworker was what made me realize I do it to and I committed to stop.
I struggle so hard with this and I really try not to do it, and I have pretty bad trauma from the way I've been treated over it too.
@@vcutler4735See I disagree with snapping at someone for interrupting/overtalking especially if it’s like an ADHD thing and they genuinely aren’t doing it intentionally. In my opinion that just causes hurt , insecurity, and other issues that can cause a person to withdraw and/or make things worse. There’s a way to handle it that’s helpful not hurtful. If it’s just a blow hard jerk, that’s different and snap away if it’s a continuous issue.
@@Just_Reading_Comments snapping shouldn't be the first option someone takes, I mean it can be useful if like we're talking multiple times or constantly doing it. If a person, adhd or not, isn't picking up the hints or gentle redirects then a harsher retort once can make the difference.
As most of my conversations are online now, if I’m talking to more than one person sometimes if I have a thought while someone else is speaking I write it down. That way I know I can still share that thought but it stops me from interrupting them. This doesn’t always work but… I’m trying.
For the first story: I'm not celibate by choice, but I am asexual, and the implication in the first comment you read about the cousin 'lying' to OP's friend really rubbed me the wrong way. Sure, it's fair for sex to be important to people, but I would still have felt really unsafe if someone shared with a potential romantic interest that I didn't have sex: I'd prefer to share and explain that myself, and some people really see 'no sex' as a challenge, so it could potentially turn dangerous. I don't think OP tried to harm their cousin in any way, but I fully agree with you both that they shouldn't have shared such personal information. Nuances and explanations are really important when it comes to someone's attitude towards sex, and the cousin should have had a chance to explain that for herself.
Exactly - by sharing that information OP stripped cousin of narrative control over her own experiences and identity.
that last aita hit really close to home where I've had multiple conversations with my dad about how some of the phrases and things he says are racist and/or microaggressions and he hasn't got my point, so I sent him a video of a black woman explaining it in a non-confrontational easy to understand way, which led him to block me as he says he doesn't deserve to be called racist
which is also making some conversations with my siblings awkward as they know that my dad isn't talking to me and they've heard him ranting about me, so they feel awkward bringing him up or talking about events where he was there. What I've learnt is that sometimes these people are just very difficult/ impossible to get through to and there has to be a point where you let them go for your own sake.
I've got ADHD and I really didn't get those vibes from Jenny? Limited context since it's one Reddit post and I am of course not the ultimate ADHD authority lol, but generally for me, if I interrupt people, I make sure to apologise and ask them what they were going to say. Also, I'm assuming that when OP said she was the same as she used to be, they meant that she still argued with people as well. With that context, it makes the interrupting sound more like Jenny was cutting people off deliberately when they tried to disagree with her or just talk with her in general.
always appreciate your insights into these discussions, they provide a different perspective to my own, which is always helpful! :)
27:34 the thing is OP already asked her to stop interrupting, so I was baffled when she was confused by OPs face. Like, girl! How clueless are you? Read the damn room!
I say this as someone who interrupts people when I’m nervous or excited. There’s no way I’d lack the self awareness to know why I was getting looks, especially after being told to stop interrupting before. My anxiety could never
This! OP did bring it up politely before snapping and also didn’t outright say something but made a face, which should also be a sign to Jenny.
I also don’t think we should assume Jenny is neurodivergent or had ADHD. There is no indication of it in the story and we cannot assume things into it.
I squealed when I saw this had been uploaded. My dad looked at me very strangely
😂 hope the episode is worth it! x
@@shaaba Always! 💛🩷
@@shaabaI really like you Shaaba you’re my best friend ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
@@shaabayou’re very pretty
Recently learned beavers keep a little pantry of food in their dens and when they build dams, it's to disrupt any flooding to "the dam fridge" lolv
"Gertrude has been a shit." is such a beautiful sentence.
48:56 I felt this so hard. I was in a situation where someone who I used to consider a friend was extremely transphobic, and racist to me to the point where I needed to block them. We were in a common group chat and I tried to keep it civil but they started spreading rumors about me and kept misgendering and dead naming me. At that point was when I blew up and "spilled the tea" because before I didn't want to say something shitty and make them lose their friends. By the end they lost all of our common friends and still didn't apologize to me at all. I felt bad at first but then I realized that if I didn't do what I did, they were going to keep trying to bully me. All this to say is that Birdie you are ABSOLUTELY not the drama. You were very civil and kind considering the situation.
Story 1: I can easily see ap conversation where OP says "well, she's really dedicated to her religion, so much so that she's saving herself for marriage." That makes a lot more sense as to how it came up, especially if he knows his friend is not religious, even anti-religion.
One neuro-spicy brain (AuDHD) to another (🥔🔆💿🎙🍑
But how would the cousin know those details? Thats weirdt
@@HighAsHeckPriestess Depends on how close the cousins are. I grew up absolute best friends with my cousin and we talked about religion, relationships, and boundaries many times.
@@HighAsHeckPriestessthey read a reply from OP on the post where OP says the cousin is very open about their religion!
@@HighAsHeckPriestess it's an interesting question 🤔 in my experience, my mum's side of the family - including cousins roughly my age - are Catholic and they do practice their religion. They preach a lot about their values and are very vocal about those. It's pretty normal in Italy to have relatives like that. I have also known my cousins' friend to have the same value, my female friends in that group (I am a woman) would openly say they were waiting for marriage when we were in high school. Then again, I never had a direct conversation with my cousins on the topic without their parents being presents and one of my cousins ended up getting his girlfriend (now wife) pregnant before marriage. So I don't think it's weird at all to know, but at the same time I guess it can be a very superficial knowledge of the facts 🤔
@alexhika i also grew up with religious friends. Most were Mormon & I would often go to church events/camp with them. We lived in a small farming/dam community with very little to do.
My undiagnosed AuDHD kept me from absorbing most of the teachings there, but I did have a lot of religious discussions with my friends about more controversial topics (ex: black members & the belief that the "mark of Cain" was black skin) that also deeply ingrained atheism, although I did pick up on the "atheists are monsters" bias without realizing that's what I was 😅.
I think I only talked about premarital sex with one friend, who I typically had the more sensitive conversations with. With all the other friends, it was just a given. However, when I moved to a city, the mormon girl I knew was already sexually active, but also didn't take her religion very seriously.
I think if I was the friend (being bi & all) & interested in OP's cousin, I would absolutely want to know if she is religious, which religion, & how dedicated she is to her faith, especially since it sounds like she's fundamentalist from the celibacy part. I see sex as part of a healthy relationship similar to living together, introducing pets to your partner, sharing a bed, etc. So often, religious girls are told that sex is a sin & then when they get married they're supposed to suddenly ignore all that? Definitely not someone I'd want to date!
I love the rainbow microphone :D
The thing with interrupting is, you can usually tell when someone is doing it maliciously.
Like, I used to interrupt people a lot... when I was 10 years old. The thing is, I learned to correct myself when it happened, and my impulse control grew naturally as I aged. If you're in your 20s and still interrupting people multiple times, no apology or change of behavior, you're probably at least somewhat cognizant of what you're doing. And if not, well honestly maybe you need a wakeup call.
Perhaps it could've been phrased better, but to put it bluntly, you shouldn't need to baby someone who is a full adult. The time for being gentle was approximately a thousand interruptions ago.
OP is NTA.
That last story resonates with me WAY more than it should. I had a “friend” who was very similar to Gertrude; she was overly demanding, disrespected very important boundaries I had set in our friendship, and would constantly say bigoted things toward marginalized people (specifically nonbinary folks). I tried again and again to educate her, but for the 4 years we knew each other, she refused to change. After a while, I realized I had enough and blocked her because I knew that no matter what I did, she wouldn’t listen and would continue to hurt me for as long as we were “friends”. Recently I heard from one of our mutuals that they broke it off with her too… She apparently fell down the pipeline and became a Zionist and transmed.
My point in saying all this is that so many kids subject themselves to toxic people because they’d feel guilty over whatever outcome, whether it’s from the other person threatening to hurt themself or inching down a bad rabbit hole. Some people just won’t let you help them, and it’s NEVER your responsibility to “fix” a person who’s hurting you.
Yeah, you can only help someone who wants to be helped.
I also have ADHD and spent my whole childhood being told I interrupted all the time but I didn’t under what they meant because I was under the impression that I was participating in the conversation in part because I couldn’t discern how others communicated and partly because if I wait the idea won’t return to me so I can’t participate and also because I wanted to show I was attentive and partly because if I don’t people ask if I’m upset or ill because I’m too quiet. So what do I do with that? I was constantly getting scolded and sometimes yelled at for it at home, I also have autism which adds a whole other layer to not understanding the cues. I acknowledge that it’s annoying, it’s been long enough and I’ve experienced enough other people doing the same to me in ways that are annoying to me for me to understand a little bit of my own behavior. I try to be more mindful of it and at least tell others to call me out if it’s over the top and that I’m not being rude on purpose I’m just engaging in the conversation actively out of respect.
When I speak to others who have adhd and autism, especially AFAB people, it’s absolutely wild and often really fun and those without adhd/ASD see this happen and just stand back unable to contribute because they get lost so quickly, ironically that’s how I feel in group conversations because I can’t follow that many people at once as quickly as I need to be then get laughed at for responding to a topic they left behind ten or more minutes ago because my mind circles around and around and around before landing on what it thinks is the current topic. It’s also hard to tell what is a pause in someone’s speech and what is them finishing their part.
Some of it is also that if I didn’t do things like “mm” “mhm” “yeah” etc… I would get in trouble for supposedly not paying attention to my dad when I was naturally a quiet person who would observe and listen silently but trauma like this has permanently keyed me up so I interrupt and make more noise than I want to.
My mum is a Gertrude. 3 weeks of silent treatment followed by a 'you're abusing me'
My mum has undiagnosed ADHD, and I think if anyone told her not to interrupt and she did again, she wouldn't ask about the look. Like, someone asked you not to interrupt them, just be a little bit more careful. I think Jenny is either interrupting on purpose, or has no concern for others. Being called annoying isn't the worst thing in the world, especially if you WERE being annoying
Edit: Shaaba made some good points, I think I'm reconsidering my stance. That's why I watch these videos ❤
Yay.
I love watching for that reason too. Sometimes these videos really get me thinking and I hope I’m expanding my mindset.
Jenny was already told twice that she is interrupting, she definitely should understand the look
I think in story 1 if OP KNOWS that cousin is for sure "nothing before marriage" and that friend would not be down for that THEN its an appropriate heads up to give. The same way you might mention "ah I dont think it would work since cousin is only into girls/guys/something the friend isnt". Or similarly if cousin is vegan and friend is omnivore. It wasnt a full dissuading but it is a heads up. Same way friends who have tried to set me up with potential dates have done me a solid by disclosing I am ace ahead of time.
And the thwarted, specifically, makes me think cousin is hoping that she can get whatever partner to a sunk cost fallacy point before revealing the celibate thing. Now that I am older I have found hitting the deal breaker topics super early in dating/before going on a first date even helps save a lot of trouble. I had waaaay too many guys who just assumed kids would happen and when I said I am childfree tried to "persuade" me so the childfree and ace discussions are ones I hit EARLY.
I have kids. I'm a single mom. I find ways to mention that pretty early. Like "Hey good morning. How are you doing?" "Oh I'm good. Just got the kids on the bus." And if sex topics come up and it's potentially a serious relationship and not just a hookup or something similar, I mention that there are going to be times where it's common and others where I'm focused on doing what I'm doing and I say "You know where the drawer is, go f**** yourself." While I point to it and contently and happily keep doing what I am doing. And if you press me about it I will get angry. Like cornered animal angry. Like that's something big to tell guys if it could be anything serious.
Honestly, this is how I was reading it. If OP knows that their friend is super sexually active or that this friend puts a lot of emphasis on the sexual portion of any romantic relationship, I would've warned that friend about the celibacy too. Heck, as a fairly sexual person myself, had I been getting interested in someone, I would've very much appreciated being warned ahead of time that they were asexual or celibate. And I could flip it the other way, too- if someone ace was interested in me, I'd want them to be warned that I'm not the same. We'd need to have a very serious talk about that before getting into a relationship, if we even thought it was worth a try at that point.
All that said, the friend is the AH here for not at least contacting the cousin like he said he would, even if just to say "hey, sorry, not really interested now that I've had time to think about it."
21:13 it’s not for OP to decide based on what they think makes them incompatible. It’s likely after a few Meetings they would figure it out for themselves. You only get involved and voice when remaining silent one of them in jeopardy.
For the 1st story I have been the cousin. Religious, didn't want to engage in premarital sex. I would have been upset. I wouldn't mind saying i am religious, or my faith is important to me. Along with the no premarital sex often comes along with a lot of discomfort around sex and having someone discuss my sex life would have been very uncomfortable. I am still a virgin, but I am much more open-minded now. I still don't think i would want that information shared. Never drop someone else's sexual info.
I agree. For me, I'd say that being celibate is in a similar ballpark as being asexual. If someone is asexual or celibate, it's not anyone else's place to share such personal info, except the person themselves. I'm demisexual and I would not want anyone to disclose that to another person. If I'm talking to someone and there's a possibility of dating, I have my way of talking about things that I'm comfortable with. Asexuality is a spectrum and there are so many misconceptions. People often don't fully understand it. If someone told the person that expressed an interest in me and said the wrong thing about my asexuality, they could ruin the possibility of that person being interested in getting to know me, which isn't fair at all.
Thank you for commenting and adding to the conversation. I think you’ve confirmed for me that OP crossed the line. I was thinking how much it is ok to share for others and you’ve solidified for me that this was over the line.
@@twinning1944 I get not a lot of people would understand why it would matter that much. Shaming a woman for too many partners is more common than for being a virgin (though people shame for that too. We can never please everyone). The relationship with many religious people and sex can be a very sensitive one though. I am glad if my perspective can help people understand each other more.
Thank you for sharing this. I have been the cousin too. When I met my now fiance I was a devout Christian and was thinking about saving myself for marriage, but wasn't sure yet. Telling him about my religion was one of the first things I did when we started talking. I would have hated for anyone to tell him those detais about me before I could and I don't know what would have happened if because of that, his idea of me was already formed in his head by what another person said about me. I hope this makes sense. We are 7,5 years together now❤
@@eline6731 congratulations.
Highschool freshmen are usually 14/15 in 'Murica. I was 14-17 in HS, a little younger than average due to my summrr birthday.
That's so interesting because I also have a summer birthday but I was older than almost everyone in my grade. I was always either the 2nd or 3rd oldest person in my entire grade.
On Gertie and the silent treatment: I think a lot of people think I give them the silent treatment because when my battery runs low, I just have to put down the phone and leave it, sometimes for days, so I don't get too worked up from drama. I'm not trying to punish anyone, I just can't deal with their business right now without derailing my life, and I don't have the energy to explain that every single time. I think it's possible (from my perspective at the beginning of the story) that Gertrude might be coming from the same angle. Especially as Birdy sounds very high energy so it is possible that Gertie gets wiped out quickly and has to tune out for her own mentsl health, not as a punishment.
Edit - Gertrude seems to have energy for being narrow minded. I retract my sympathy but am leaving the comment for the algorithm.
I actually really appreciate your comment (even though it doesn't apply to Gertrude), because a lot of people said the silent treatment is always a red flag etc. And I often feel the same as you
Regarding the interrupter story:
As someone with ADHD, I both interrupt people a lot and I don't get it when people imply "politely". If I'm into a story I just can't see if other people are interested or annoyed unless they specifically say it. I can absolutely understand how this girl just didn't feel the "vibes" of the room and kept going. People like that need direct and open communication, or else we just don't see it and don't understand why people are mean to us.
About the first one - in my opinion both things were not OPs place to tell. As a person with faith - I do feel like this is a very personal thing that I would want to share and explain / show myself to a person I a interested in and learn to know. In my experience people sometimes have very strange ideas, what "being religious" contains.
If some person I am friends with answered the question: "What is she like?" - With: "She is religious" - I would feel hurt, that I am reduced to this one aspect of my life and that there is nothing else to tell about me. OP did not want this relationship to happen - She judged: They are not compatible. - It was not their place to judge. She could have said: I like her. Find more out for yourself.
On the other hand. The friend was scared of by OPs words and did not find out who cousin really is for themselves.
While I agree that mostly someone's religious belief should be theirs to share as they see fit, if I had friendA who was interested in another friendB and I knew friendB was very devout and friendA was critical of religion or even put off by religion I would tell friendA that friendB has religion in their life. I wouldn't say to what extent but just saying "Oh they are lovely and they have a similar hobby to you, but just so you know they do hold religious beliefs." is not reducing a person to just their religion. Its sharing an important aspect that can, unfortunately, be a deal breaker for some people. If I know friendA has this as a deal breaker I would save their time and inform them at least on a surface level of that deal breaker being in play.
I'm loving the little inserts: "Oh yes", "Mmmm Danone", "Jamie's Metaphor Moments"!!!! Always makes my Monday
I'm really self conscious about unintentionally interrupting people. I'm AuDHD, and I know this is something that I do a lot in conversations. The reason for it is that I have trouble interpreting people's pauses, if they're finished with a statement, or just taking a breath in the middle of a statement. I really try hard not to interrupt, but it happens, and I always apologize and back off when it does. I do the best I can to mitigate this, and there have been people who have literally told me my best isn't enough, and it has really hurt. So I feel really bad for "Jenny" in this story.
It sounds like you’ve had to put a lot of effort into suppressing your impulse to interrupt and as an ADHD’er who has had to do the same, I know that it’s far from easy.
A perspective that really helped me though is realising that being interrupted made me feel disrespected and I never wanted to do that to anyone else. That’s also why I feel that it’s unfair to shield Jenny from criticism, just because we’ve collectively decided that she might be neurodivergent: even if she was, that doesn’t mean she has the right to treat OP in a way they don’t want to be treated. OP might be neurodivergent as well, which could be the reason for the sensitivity to interruptions, but that’s not mentioned by anyone. I don’t think it’s fair to ‘side’ with Jenny, just because we identify with her more. OP expressed a real issue with how he experienced their interactions and we’re all saying “maybe she can’t help it, maybe she’s neurodivergent!” That wouldn’t excuse her from being rude and disruptive, imo.
By the way: I’ve also realised that being upfront about your flaws/quirks works best. I always say that I can be very direct and that I may interrupt occasionally, but that they can always tell me when I’m doing it and I’ll adjust. That gives them the agency to dictate how they want to be treated and it gives me the peace of mind that they would’ve said something it something was wrong.
Hmm, maybe it’s because I’m from a more religiously conservative area, but I didn’t really feel like the first OP was doing anything wrong by sharing that. From my experience, it’s pretty common for people to take ‘purity pledges’ and have that be a known thing amongst their family and close circle. If OP knew that that wasn’t the kind of relationship their friend was looking for, I feel like it would make the most sense to just tell him and let him come to his own decision about that. Anyways, love the video!
I get that when something is common, it can feel less personal when shared without permission with others. But this is partly the problem with purity culture - the idea that sex lives, particularly for women, aren’t considered to be solely the choices and concerns of the person in question. Maybe OP didn’t feel like it was a secret, but expected or not, it’s the cousin’s business.
Purity culture puts such judgement and pressure on people, again particularly women, to feel their sex lives are not their own. And OP’s decision to share that the cousin is celibate, while no where near the same scale, echos that same assumption that it’s not personal information that’s just the cousin’s to share.
Yeah in families and communities where purity pledges and purity balls are common. (Purity balls, for those that don't know, those are basically a faux wedding ceremony where daughters spiritually marry their fathers and promise their virginity to them until they're married. Fundie Fridays, a professional amd licensed therapist that has both personal and professional experience specializing on Deconstruction, just did a good video the other day on them.) It is very common tobbe very vocal and loud about it. While it doesn't sound like cousin is quite like this I know quite a few where if asked the top t things about them that would number 2. Umber one amd number 3 would be about theor religious beliefs amd practices. But even just purity pledges in general te very loud. Like girls acting better and insulting other girls for not doing one (even if the girl they're insulting hadn't even stared dating yet.) Like it's such a stereotype about it being well known there are parody songs about it.
If it isnt too personal to assume she's most likely sexually active, it isnt too personal to say she isnt.She's still allowed to choose and make that choice. She's not being "outed". @@katieowlpower
@@Insertia_Nameia again, common doesn’t translate to free to spill. OP could have easily mentioned she was strongly religious and left her celibacy implied. Sex shouldn’t be a taboo subject, but it also has to be balanced with respect for individual choices. And part of that respect comes in letting that person be the one to bring up their own sex life. “Justified” or not, it’s clearly important to the cousin that she be the one to tell about her celibacy. It’s not outing per se, as that focuses on was it known. But that’s not a green light to talk about it without care for the party being discussed.
@@katieowlpowerI was kind of on the fence about this one, as I too am from a very religious area where celibacy is the norm, and I didn't quite see the big deal about disclosing that she's presumably acting within this purity culture framework herself.
I just want you to know that something clicked with your comment and I think I might adjust how I would talk about someone's religious practices in this sort of situation going forward.
Out of curiosity, do you agree or disagree with disclosing the religion aspect of things? I'm much less on the fence about that one, as I think the religion someone belongs to can have a lot of say in a person's value system, and that value systems can say a lot about long term compatibility of two people. But I've also seen comments saying that it still should have been hers to disclose and explain, and that people can have weird or misguided ideas about religion as a whole, which also gives me a bit of pause, as when I was religious (and sometimes even now) I certainly felt that to be true.
I'm wicked close with my cousin, we're more like long-distance friends, so having that info doesn't seem weird to me, bc usually you know what's going on in your besties' sex lives. If you have something controversial about yourself that impacts your in such a big way, you gotta just put it all out there. You don't want someone learning something later, when you've already caught feelings, and it hurting you if they leave. That's why I don't hide anything about myself, so people can sift me out in the early rounds.
25:53 I have ADHD but that’s actually the reason that I’ve learned to stop interrupting people. Because that same ADHD means that when ever I’m interrupted, I completely lose my train of thought. Obviously I’ve felt the impulse to interrupt or speak over someone, but I genuinely believe that while neurospiciness might make it more difficult to control that impulse, it doesn’t excuse me from respecting the other persons story and realising that their struggle to tell a story might be just as strong as my impulse to interrupt it.
I definitely would want to know if someone I was pursuing was wrapped up in purity culture. From personal experience, there’s so much trauma to unpack even once you start having sex. It bleeds in to other areas of life as well.
I think I would have blocked Gertrude that last time she gave the silent treatment.
Blocked her from me, not the entire group chat.
I grew up in a very religious world where we had it hounded into us that sex before marriage was never okay, and anyone who knew me growing up would have known that was a big part of my life. Like, a huge deal. The world I grew up in had purity pledges, balls to celebrate purity pledges, entire songs written about purity pledges... like. Fanatical devotion to sexual "purity." It wasn't anything secret, lol. It wouldn't be accurate for someone to represent me that way now, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me in the least if someone I grew up with thought it was an important thing to share to a potential romantic partner who hadn't been exposed to that world before.
I absolutely want to know if they have kids either on the first date or prior to it. I'm not against kids but I need to KNOW that first and foremost if we're going to try for a relationship. Having children involved makes the stakes more important and if you don't tell me right away I will assume you are hiding it for a reason and that doesn't sit right with me. I reconnected with a friend a few years back who I only found out was married because HIS friend mentioned it and it was MONTHS before I found out he had a 3 year old and a newborn. I'm sorry but it's weird that he never mentioned his kids once in front of me until we'd been chatting for nearly 4 months.
Espically because not everyone wants kids. If kids are a deal breaker for someone then it's better to have that conversation sooner rather than later. its the same reason I think discussion of long term life goals such as having kids, getting married, ect should occur in the first few dates at least to some extent.
Yeah deal breakers like that need to be shared ASAP. It's like the people who wait until they've been on several dates and then drop the "BTW I'm polyamorous you should meet my wife". There's no problem with people living their lives how they want, but if you're inviting someone into your life by dating them, you can't hide important stuff until they're emotionally invested. That's gross regardless if it's kids, religion, anything.
Exactly. I'm a single mom. When I date, I mention it pretty early on. Like say they say good morning and ask how I'm doing. I might casually mention I got them on the bus and now I'm doing whatever it is I'm doing. That usually happened within the first couple days of talking. Or if the topic of what we are looking for comes up first, I'll usually drop it there. If they mention hey are looking for a serious relationship and don't want kids or only want a couple of their own bios kids I just say oh okay. Understandable. I hope you have a great life and find what you're looking for. Good luck. It's that simple.
35:38 is not child OPs job to moderate, mediate, educate, and empathize with Jenny's trauma or whatever caused her to act out in school. Her behaviour caused child OP trauma. They're 100% entitled to call her out and it is STILL not adult OPs job to prioritise Jenny's possible trauma over theirs.
Shaaba, your hair here is positively GORGEOUS💕✨
Second story: ESH, this was definitely not the first time Jenny had been asked not to interrupt, especially if she's been that way since High School. If she hasn't found ways of not interrupting when asked not to or at the very least apologising when she realises she's doing it then she is just rude and an AH. However, telling someone to their face that they are annoying is also very rude. Op isn't an AH for being irratated or showing that irratation on their face but they could have said something else instead of an insult. Even a passive aggressive 'you haven't changed much since High School' would have been better than just 'you're annoying'.
2nd story: OP is definitely not the drama, I know people like Jenny (*cough* my nan *cough) who just DO NOT stop talking for the life of them. Even when they can clearly see that you are saying something they always feel the need to take over the conversation and are not sorry about interrupting. It's infuriating.
I'm AuDHD and listening/watching you two have a discussion about anything is like a personification of the two sometimes harmonic, sometimes antagonistic parts of my brain. It's oddly exciting, entertaining and calming at the same time. I love the dynamics between you and while I also enjoy the seperate videos you make, the combination of your vibes is where the magic happens imo. I'm happy your paths crossed and continue to entertwine and thank you for sharing that with us. It's stuff like this and people like you who help me heal some wounds and be nicer to myself.
I would absolutely want to know if someone has kids on the first date. That’s a dealbreaker for me and I don’t want develop feelings and vice versa for someone I am not going to be fundamentally compatible with.
Same, not because it is a dealbreaker but because it is a major thing in someone’s life. It was actually one of the things I would ask early on when dating. I actually had someone tell me he doesn’t have a child and then later (once we were properly dating) tell me he does have a son, which really annoyed me because of the lying. I’d have been okay with him having a kid from the start, but lying about something so big is unacceptable.
With that last one my mom uses the same tactic of saying "I just don't understand" to make you eventually angry. No matter how many different ways you explain it or try to show them something about it or what have you, they don't Want to understand so explanation is entirely useless. She actually did that recently when she found out I'm nonbinary, (I didn't tell my parents bc I just don't give a crap about their opinion) and all she would say is she just "doesn't understand" and I said "you don't need to, bc I knew you two would never do it (use my pronouns) so I don't care what you do" and then she went off on a transphobic rant. It may seem like these people actually want to learn but they just want to say their "opinion" as loudly as possible.
Her celibacy is no one's information to disclose except hers. No one's sexual preferences are anyone else's business. I'm surprised you both gave the badges you did! Previously this topic has yielded different results.
Agreed. Even if someone is open to their friends about something that doesn't mean someone wants people in that group to go around just telling people who ask what they're like. I'm open about being autistic but I don't want other people telling someone that when it's something I want to bring up with someone myself
I think that in future videos you guys should try to unpack “some kind of way” when discussing people’s feelings. You tend to use it to imply generally negative emotions, but I think looking at the *specific* emotions you’re implying could deepen the discussion. When you say that someone is feeling “some kind of way”, are you saying (in that specific scenario) that they felt hurt? Combative? Embarrassed? Disappointed? Getting more specific might reveal more nuance in some of the stories, which could make your analysis even more interesting.
I agree. In general, there's so much care and attention paid to talking about things clearly and plainly, but the amount the phrase "feeling some kind of way" is used, feels like a cut corner.
My autism and alexithymia appreciate this comment greatly 😂
If someone didn't disclose they had kids before dating it would be a red flag for me. Its a totally different relationship to be starting with someone who has kids already than one of someone without kids. I'd want to know that before even agreeing to see them 🤷🏻♀️ so for me it's similar to the information of is someone is very religious, it's a big thing to consider before you date the person
Agreed. I would definitely want to know if someone has children or if they are very religious asap if considering dating them. I don’t think mentioning someone is strongly religious when asked “what are they like” is overstepping.
I lowkey think the brother is the drama for not stepping in and mediating for the sister and girlfriend 😂
You're the link dude it falls on your shoulders!!
I also have adhd and tend to talk over people and spent most of my teen years being called annoying. so that story made me feel a little uncomfortable too. but honestly somebody just telling me calmly 'hey you're being a bit too much' i would quiet down. I wonder if she fell back into old habits partly because it was a stressful environment of meeting a bunch of new people, and maybe noticing someone from her past that didn't like her. i also probably wouldn't call out someone giving me a facial expression but that's partly because of my rejection sensitivity i would take it as 'i'm being a problem and people hate me again' and most likely go find a quiet corner with a pet to hang out with.
I have ADHD and Autism, so I can't read the room and tell when am interrupting too much and being annoying, but if someone told me I was interrupting and asked me to stop I would rather stop talking entirely than risk doing it again, like jenny was directly told.
Got home from the beach and immediately had the "what do I listen to to occupy my mind so I don't accidentally sit in the tub for an hour?" debate in my head, and then I remembered, "It's Shaaba day!"
To the second story: I do think that OP shower civility at first, he asked her to stop interrupting TWICE. At that point, if someone is still doing it, after they're well aware that it's bothering someone, they deserve someone to be more blunt with them after that. If you continue to be too understanding, you cause people to walk all over you
For me, the reason I sometimes accidentally interrupt is because I'm just so terrible at reading people. I genuinely often can't tell if someone is done or not. My brain decides they are stopping when they are just taking a breath.
As a religious lady who Saved Myself for Marriage™, I actually always made sure that everyone I dated knew that IT wasn't going to happen. Sadly, most of the guys I dated still pestered me for it anyway. 🙄
The first one, I feel like OP is the Ahole. Because if you take it away from religion but change it to, for example sexuality, I wouldn't want a friend/family member telling someone that I'm asexual and probably won't be interested in sex if someone expresses they are interested in me. That's my information to share. I understand that sexuality can be more loaded but I feel like it could be a good comparison and just not necesarry to share. If the cousin had a certain kink it wouldn't be okay either . That's not your info to share. The way information like this is shared is so important. plus I kind of want to say 'stay in your lane', but maybe that's me being too harsh. Bringing up that they are religious is fine I think (but I don't have experience with that myself so find it more difficult to judge, so feel free to educate me) but the celibacy thing feels weird for someone else to bring up.
Edit, I don't think OP is a bad person, I just personally think they are the drama for disclosing the celibacy of someone else.
I totally disagree. Okay, admittedly I am not sure if I am demi or ace, but if my sister had a friend that would like to pursue me and she knew that said friend was for example hypersexual, I would be relieved if she told them that. This way we can both save the time of gtting to know each other and the following disappointment when the topic comes up in conversation later. Because for many people sex isn’t a thing that they discuss very early.
Agreed, it's something that can be different for each person, and is something that needs context and personality and communication around the subject
@@jassychanVO i can see this, but wouldn't you because of that bring it up yourself quite early on when starting to date/get to know someone romantically? I know a lot of people won't be a good match for me because of me being ace so it's something I bring up very early on (similar as not wanting children. It's important I'm on the same page as the person I'm potentially interested in and I don't want to waste either persons time) but I'd still want to be the person telling them and having that discussion with them so you can properly discuss it. If they are hypersexual, cool we are not a romantic match but there is so much more Grey area between that I would want to have that conversation myself. But obviously your opinion is valid.
@@jassychanVO Exactly! If someone asked after me, I'd want them to know I'm queer right off the bat (not that they'd have to ask after seeing me lol), if one of my guy friends asked after MY cousin, I'd let them know she usually doesn't go for dudes, and she'd probably be fine with it. Anyone who's out is out, you can't expect the info to stay confined, it's who you are.
The last story oof. I feel like I'm experiencing some of that growing apart as friends and I've been having such a hard time figuring out how to move forward. This person victimizes themselves at the first sign of any confrontation so there isn't really any way to have productive conversations, similar to how OPs ex friend just stonewalled instead of being an adult about it. Its tough, adult friendships are tough.
Yes Beavers do fell trees (to eat the underbark) and sometimes the felled tree is used in their dam. But unlike concrete, manmade dams, beavers don't _stop_ the flow, they slow it and spread it out, creating a more interesting river. Like adding footnotes and explanations to an interesting point. I think someone coming along and damming a river to send it down their channel or pump it all out on their fields is a cleaner metaphor for the unShaabaly type of interruption.
Shaaba: bubbly, fun-loving, cute, quirky in the best way, loving & caring.
Jammi: quiet, gentle, easily embarrassed, quite fun, very caring.
You're both delightful souls & I love that xxx And you also go so well together
For the interrupting story, I’m getting non-ADHD having autistic person meets ADHDer vibes. 😅 that’s been a lot of my experience in life. Heck, I’m married to someone who also is auDHD but had parents who were verbally and emotionally abusive, and who had very strict conversational boundaries and gave him a lot of flak for interrupting, whereas in my family everyone kind of talks over each other to a certain extent in a friendly ADHD way. Sometimes it gets overwhelming and they’re not listening, but I don’t get offended at my family doing that-but my husband does. We’ve even had many tense discussions about interruptions. In the end, we’ve had to adapt a “Well, Mull is not trying to be rude, in fact they’re trying to participate in the conversation in an encouraging way, but Mr Mull is struggling with feeling like his words aren’t being taken seriously because he reads that as interruption” so we both tread carefully.
But also Jamie gives autistic vibes to me (in a “feels like friend” autistic-dar kind of way) with his precision and sensory issues and trying very hard to figure out a way for things to logically make sense. Even the way he expresses his discomfort feels very familiar to my autistic brain. ❤
And the point of me saying that is that usually when it triggers your own sensory issues, stuff like the popcorn throwing episode or this one just feels very autistic frustration to me. 😅 forgive me, I’m not online diagnosing anyone. Just seeing very familiar things in this fun parasocial relationship.
With empathy that doesn't necessarily mean that a person also has compassion towards things - you can understand how someone is feeling but also simultaneously not care (people can also use this knowledge of knowing to actually manipulate too). Though it is hard to say if she doesn't understand or just doesn't care to
I was feeling some serious secondhand frustration over the post about constant interruptions. I have ADHD. But even before I had even heard the term I was putting effort into not interrupting people when they spoke, unless it was someone I knew very well and who understood my "personality". If someone interrupts me once, I will politely wait for them to say what they want to say, then I'll continue with whatever I was saying. If they interrupt me a second time, I will be polite but quite firm about the interruption. If it happens a third time, I'm going to be downright blunt and brutal and am not going to give one single damn about their feelings because they will have proven themselves to be utterly disrespectful and inconsiderate. I can appreciate that if someone is a teenager/child, self-control can be tricky. However, this person is now an adult. I'm sure that dinner was not the first time someone chastised her about her behaviour. The fact she continues to behave the way she does shows she has no interest in working on said behaviour and showing more respect to people around her. Frankly I'm entirely on OP's side. I am kind, to a point. After that boundary has been crossed, kindness is no longer on offer.
I completely agree. Jenny sounds seriously annoying and OP did address her interruption politely before getting annoyed.
I also wonder why the brother is not mitigating. He most know about OP having had an issue with Jenny in the past, so why didn’t he talk to both of them prior in order to avoid issues at the family meeting.
For the first one, I think it is also a factor if OP’s friend is the kind of person who is very open about always having sex with their new partners pretty early on in the relationship. I don’t necessarily think that would make what OP shared the absolute right thing to do, but I could see how knowing something like this could cause OP to see their cousin’s celibacy as something their friend would need to know if they planned to date. I agree with NAH on this one.
The friend didn’t contact the cousin anymore after finding out she is religious and celibate, so I feel like OP actually might have know his friend well and been trying to protect his cousin from disappointment. At the end of the day the friend is the one who decided not to even call the cousin.
Yeah, but even then the OP could have been more vague, like "she isn't like the girls you usually date" and even warned their cousin about the mismatch in their relationship goals.
@@soundlessbee “she isn’t like the girls you usually date” is so vague and tbh I would be frustrated to get such a vague answer when asking a friend a question. What is meant by her not being like the other girls? Is she a psychopath? Is she a flat earther? Does she have a prosthetic leg? Is she really nerdy? Is she very sporty and Friend is not? Is she a couch potato and Friend likes sporty ladies?
@@s.a.4358 It is better than starting with something very private and if prosthetic legs are a deal breaker to the friend, he can ask directly.
Someone who has known a person for their entire life, probably knows more about them than they wish any new acquaintances to know. I don't think any friend of a friend is entitled to that information just because they might want to date such person. I'd think everyone has people around them, who know some details that they wouldn't want shared to others.
This is an interesting point that's raising a question for me: if OP had told their cousin "oh (friend) is great but he's really into sex early into the relationship", would that be a violation in the same way that it was the other way around?
Which then leads to like. How is "so and so doesn't want to have sex until marriage" different from "so and so is SUCH a player, they'll hook up with you immediately!!!" which is a pretty normal thing to warn someone about? Are they both violations of the other person's privacy? Is one more ok than the other? I am very autistic and do not. Know the answer to this one. But it's interesting to me that having a lot of sex is seen as ok to gossip about but from what I'm seeing choosing to not have sex is a "private decision", when really I think that they should both be A: destigmatized, but also B: none of anybody else's business lol. So I'm not sure.
I realized I haven't really had to think about the contents of the first story yet, which made me reach out to a friend of mine who has similar values. I made it clear that she only has to engage with this conversation with me if she's comfortable, because it's not her responsibility to educate me, but yeah, thanks for doing this podcast so I could learn more about the people around me and other people's perspectives✌️
wake up babes shaaba posted!! :3
I can see why the cousin was upset in the celibacy story. My husband's best friend is also very openly religious and celibate, and his fiancee is not. She had some apprehension about the relationship at first because of that, but they were able to compromise and work out something between them that worked for both parties and theyre very happy together. Cousin didn't even have an opportunity to build that relationship to a point where they could have that conversation because friend just assumed it wouldn't work.
It’s like people who see letters in specific colors. Seeing an “o” as a blue letter. Then with the downward stroke of a pen that letter “o” becomes a “d” which is a pink letter. Or by moving the downward stroke a little farther down what was a letter “o” has now become a letter “q” which is an orange letter! (On how someone can offer a perfectly valid explanation that no one else is able to understand.)
Synaesthesia?
I really appreciate how nice you are Shaaba. Often you make me realise that there are other ways to phrase things that I didn't even consider that are more constructive. Sometimes there are situations where being nice isn't really helpful anymore because sadly some people you will never reach and I think that's where I disagree with you the most. But it is worth trying in a lot of situations and I really appreciate hearing your perspective because mine is often a little different than yours (usually more aligned with Jamie, although not always). Really love that about this format!
Asking a teacher a lot of questions could be a sign that the person really wants to understand the material or are engaging in critical thinking.
I want to share my perspective on the religious cousin story as somebody who, when I met my now fiance, was very religious and at the time also celibate. I would have hated anyone telling details about my sex life or lack thereof and my religion to him back when we started talking. I never made a secret of it and it was important for me to tell him that I went to church so I told him in the first week after we met. But both the sex thing and the religion thing we MINE to tell. Someone else sharing that could have caused him to subconciously form an image of me in his head rather than me telling and explaining the details of it myself. OP should have just given him the number and if cousin and friend were not compatible, they would have found out soon enough.
I HATE GERTRUDES LIKE THAT
And it's always this type of person who starts a 'discussion' without taking in any explanation you provide and then they proceed to alienate you and make you feel bad for not agreeing with them 💀
I'm neurodivergent and I noticed sometimes the interruption thing can also be a predictive interruption, like you know what the person is about to say and you say it first not meaning to just bc it floods to the surface quicker than the other person can get it out
I feel like OP was overstepping a bit in the first story. I'm someone who is both religious and waiting. I, however, am extremely leftist as well, and when discussing religion I would be able to tell more about my beliefs and clarify some things. It just seems rude to talk about something that feels that private, but that's my personal opinion as someone in a similar situation to the cousin
We don't know the friend's views on religion or celibacy but I'm coming from the opposite side as you. I am pretty against all religions and any sort of magical thinking, and I don't want to wait until I'm legally bound to someone to see if we're sexually compatible. Those are deal breakers for me. If I was interested in someone, I would appreciate a heads-up that our values don't align so I don't get emotionally involved with someone who I will never have a future with, even if that heads-up comes from someone else.
I can understand feeling like OP crossed a line but the cousin's response that op "thwarted" their relationship makes me think that the cousin wasn't planning on disclosing her celibacy until the friend was emotionally invested, trying to play on the sunk cost fallacy, or in some way planning to try to convince him to pursue a relationship that maybe isnt the type of relationship he wants (since if it wasn't a big deal for the friend, he would have reached out to her anyway).
@violet7773 that's totally fair. I was coming from my view, where I know I would disclose those things quickly to make sure that the relationship would work out and we were both on the same page
Info on the Jenny story, Did OP ever try to communicate with Jenny about how disruptive her behavior is? Ask her why, back in high school? Jenny's interruption is objectively annoying, bur OP's frustration is his own problem. And it sounds like he took no steps to try and solve the problem, just ran away from the confrontation and held onto resentment which he later launched at Jenny. His annoyance isn't wrong, but his communication is just as bad as Jenny's. He made no efforts to understand or give grace, and just projected his emotions at Jenny. He could've pulled her aside or at least said without insults that her interruptions have been really frustrating and detract from your ability to be excited for her and your brother. If not for her, for the relationship you have with your brother and for your own growth OP.
Story #1. I'm asexual and formerly religious, so I feel like I have a lot of stake in this question. I'm celibate both by choice and because that's how my asexuality manifests. 0 interest in sex.
Before realizing I was asexual and then leaving religion, I was planning to be celibate until marriage. When my religion and celibacy aligned, I wouldn't have had a problem with friends or family sharing either of those very related facts with others. Now that I am celibate because I am living true to my sexual orientation and not for religious reasons, I would be uncomfortable with someone sharing it.
I don't want to diminish other people coming out. However one thing that is unique to coming out as asexual is people immediately feeling entitled to ask you invasive questions about your sex life. I'm sure Jamie has experienced something similar with strangers wanting to know the details of his medical transition.
I really struggle with coming out because in certain circles, having sex is seen as a sign of maturity or being a "true adult". In my small work cohort, for example, I am fairly certain that all of my co-workers are currently or have regularly been in sexual relationships. They could see this as a challenge to "hook me up" with someone or maybe even see me as less effective in my job since I don't have the "life experience" to inform me.
I feel like in some areas of society (I'm in Canada) we've achieved a certain level of comfort with same sex relationships. However the idea of someone rejecting sex entirely is still quite radical whether it is for religious, sexuality, or other reasons.
Back to the post. I agree with "no drama here". However, if aspects of the cousin's life and belief system had changed, the one sharing outdated information definitely would have been the drama.
Just my 2¢.
The river rapid, beaver metaphor! I’m dying😂
Yeah, I know what you mean Shaaba. My year 7 teacher took me through long division with at least 4 problems and my brain still didn’t get it
My colleague and I have become better at explaining stuff to people who don’t understand after having to explain things to non-English speakers for years but man it’s a skill
Wheee! Haven't had a new video since last month! 😁
Thank you for the deep dive, peach potato!
😂😂 manifesting positivity for your September! x
I actually really enjoyed Jamie's lazy river/beaver dam metaphor. I might use that in the future. XD
Also: Shaaba's hair and outfit (from what we can see of it), so on point today!
31:00 this convo is so golden
10:39 if someone was hooking me up with their friend but didn’t notify me they were overly religious I’d be kinda put off. I am very very not religious and it is a quick no from me I’d want to know before I wasted my time.
Shaaba, your hair is STUNNING todayyyy
the last story really helped me realise that growing in a different direction with someone who used to be your friend is ok. I was one of those people who really hoped everything could go back to how it was with this one friend, but this made me realise it's not my duty to get them to change if they don't want to😭 I feel more at peace with that situation now
I have quite the history with being talked over, so I get what it's like to be primed for anger when you're in a social situation when you're fairly certain it will happen. I don't trust myself to say something in response, so I usually end up shutting down when it happens and I don't think I'm very good at hiding my emotions in those circumstances. It's often when I'm with a group of people, both familiar and strangers, which is why I can't prefer being in small groups or one-on-one. I also have ADHD, so I have a very deliberate way of speaking, and because I'm an introvert I have a hard time getting a word in anyway, so interrupting me makes me feel like I just shouldn't speak up.
I do think OP should apologize for insulting the gal (as it was an insult), but I feel her frustration is totally justified.
Some people with ADHD really struggle with introception. So it's very possible that the brother's girlfriend not only doesn't know that she has ADHD but is completely unaware of her interruptions, especially if no one has sat her down and explained to her what she's doing, bluntly but with kindness. I had this issue in my early 20's. My best friend explained how my actions were afeecting people and then became my alarm for when I was overdoing it. I slowly learned from her what the cues were to look for, and how long to wait after someone poke to insert my part of the conversation. It was really helpful.
Re: interrupting, as someone neurodivergent myself, a similar thing has happened many times where I've been called out, not for actively interrupting, but for just talking way too much, for way too long, and way too loudly. It's the kind of thing I literally do not realize in the moment until someone else calls me out on it. You know what happens next? I tend to go *very* quiet, to the point where I often get told I'm overcorrecting. But then of course I would be; I'm embarrassed over what just happened. So... doing it a third time in the same conversation after having been called out twice? Bad form. Incredibly bad form. At that point you *deserve* to be called out overtly.
...On another note I have been called out for "interrupting"... in situations where it sounded to me like someone else was done talking and then they just keep going. I try my damnedest to *not* interrupt people unless they are just outright monologuing, because personally I really can't stand not being allowed to even finish a single sentence. Like so often people will try to respond to my point *before I've made it, and by so doing often responding to something entirely different from the point I was actually getting at.* ...Though I also admittedly struggle with brevity. Like, a lot.
The adhd math Shaaba, yes! I was told I was advanced until 8th grade where I moved and struggled a lot, then a teacher my sophomore year took the 1-on-1 minute to show me and it made sense. Not trying to ever take calculus though. Still always have and will have directional problems but that's another story.
45:40 👏🏽 yes Jamie exactly this! As a POC I appreciate this view. She doesn't want to listen or learn from a person living the experience. It's not an issue of understanding. Bigots do not care.
Regarding Birdie's situation - I've been in something similar where I had to cut ties with an emotionally manipulative person (K) for my own mental health but we had a shared group of people. I wanted to take the high road and not make our mutuals uncomfy so I said only that I was no longer in contact with K and didn't want folks to feel like they needed to take sides. I ended up losing the whole group of people because K told blatant lies and blamed me for our falling out - that was the only side of the story the group heard so they believed it. Years later I spoke to one of them and had to opportunity to tell my side, before that I hadn't known why I was cut off. When the group heard my side of things I was believed by most of them but by then we had missed out on years of connecting.
All that is to say that while Birdie not spreading gossip about Gertrude seems like the right course it could actually cause more problems in the group long term if Gertrude's side of things is the only one being told. At this point it's safe to assume bad faith on Gertrude's part after years of emotional manipulation and now outright bigotry. She deserves the consequences of that and sometimes that means people knowing what she's done and responding accordingly.
OMG, that last one, when they started down the road of if you just keep repeating the exact same thing I didn't understand the first time, I'm not going to understand it the 100th time, I could feel all the tension happening in my body. It reminded me of an incident I had many years ago that was so frustrating for me, and I just fully feel all that frustration again.
Oh, this is definitely TMI and Too Long, so Don't Read.
Many years ago, I had a coworker friend and we were assigned to work on a project together where we had to meet on site, away from our office, but he was definitely in charge. And I'm fuzzy about details now, but I guess there was some conversation or negotiation about when to meet, or maybe our boss brought up more issues affecting the plan. And my best guess (because I never did figure out why he reacted like this) is maybe he thought I was trying to assert power or something, and he definitely thought I was faking my lack of comprehension.
So when the schedule seemed set I said, okay, please confirm the day and time we're meeting. And he said "the invitation stands." And I was like which, invitation, the original time and day or this other one that you emailed later? "The invitation stands." So this first time and day? "The invitation stands." The second time and day?" "The invitation stands." Look, I clearly don't know which day and time you mean, so please just tell me the one you want. "The invitation stands." Okay, I guess I did something to offend you? But if I was anyone else in this office asking you to please just tell me the day and time, you would, so please stop repeating those exact words and just tell me the day and time so I can show up? "The invitation stands."
I stopped trying and after work he texted me something that was not the exact same words, but it still wasn't the actual day or time, so I was still unsure. So it kind of started up again a little, except by text. But I think he finally realized I was truly not comprehending and not faking it at all, and eventually he just gave me the time and day.
He stayed super angry at me though, and days we were at that site together felt tense. We still work together, but since covid we only go to the office one day a week now, and we hardly ever work together just the two of us anymore. I think on his end he's probably actively (but quietly) avoiding working with me. But it doesn't seem to impact my place in the office, so it mostly doesn't affect me at all now.
I think after that project was over when I asked him, he said something like he felt "the invitation stands" was clear enough, and I should have been able to understand that. If I had some diagnosis of neurodivergence interfering with my ability to understand, I would have to tell him, and then he would have rephrased, but he felt having to say any thing additional would be an accommodation and he's not required to do that if I don't have a diagnosis.
The thing is, maybe I am neurodivergent, but I've never been diagnosed, so I don't know. I don't have any work accommodations, and I don't think asking for a day and time would count as an accommodation. But even if I did have a diagnosis and accommodations, I don't think that I have to disclose the diagnosis to a same level coworker.
With the interrupter, I do agree that you should let someone know that them interrupting you is a problem before going straight to being not nice to them. However, as someone with ADHD, if I interrupt someone I always make sure to say ‘sorry what were you saying before?’ to make sure they’re still able to finish their point because I know I’m never going to stop interrupting accidentally as that is how I just converse. Luckily, I have some fellow ADHD friends who does the same as me so we’re constantly going on side tangents so I can be myself and not feel as bad around them.
I see so many commenters on here like this, & like me when I was younger. I'm autistic (diagnosed at 27) & had NO CLUE what interrupting even was, except something my father would accuse me of CONSTANTLY. I was just trying to join in the conversation, but didn't have the slightest clue how. It took me a LONG time to learn when to put my point & when not to. Even now I'll say a couple of leading words & if I notice the other person's point is still continuing I'll let them, as they now know I have something to add, but am willing to wait & listen.
The point is, even when I was still learning & there was no father around, when somebody told me to please not interrupt, or got angry at me, my first thought wouldn't be like Jenny ie: I wouldn't be angry & upset; I'd be, "oh, sorry, I just want to add to the conversation, I didn't know you weren't done with your piece yet" kind of thing. I might even be embarrassed, & would certainly seek education, especially knowing it was a weakness of mine.
THIS, Jenny's attitude to being called out, is what makes her the drama, not taking longer than usual to learn how to social. Being willing to learn goes a heck of a long way. Jenny has clearly shown she can't learn, & likely doesn't want to
love these videos!
1st story: I think it's fair for celibacy to be an issue when getting into a relationship, but I don't think it was cousin's place to share. They can discuss that themselves so that the friend can see her full perspective on it.
2nd story: Whether or not she has ADHD, she should be apologizing after interrupting and trying to correct the behavior. Not apologizing makes it seem like she doesn't really care.
I wonder if Jenny, The Interrupter, was manipulating OP and the situation to her benefit.
After interrupting OP and getting called out for it _twice,_ Jenny had the temerity to ask OP about their facial expression. She _had_ to be socially aware enough to recognize that OP wasn't thrilled with yet another interruption. Otherwise, she wouldn't have "asked what that look was for" ( 25:20 ). OP's face obvious wasn't wreathed in smiles.
Jenny _knew_ the response to her query would be negative. Still, she asked OP about their expression in front of people she was supposedly trying to impress. The most reasonable explanation for this that I can come up with is that she saw an opportunity to look like the victim, despite her rude behavior, and she took it.
I can empathize with OP for calling Jenny annoying.
I agree telling someone info like celibacy without express permission isn’t good because it’s a very personal thing that might change, the cousin might not want to be celibate anymore or just want to have the control of telling the potential parter in their own.
ALSO OP’s cousin should have contacted the friend for themself instead of keeping OP in the middle. “Hey OP I hit it off with your friend can you ask them if they’re interested in getting my phone number/insta/snap?”
ALSO I just remembered that some friends of mine used to express religious beliefs publicly that they don’t actually believe privately because they needed to protect themselves from their family who would give them crap for “straying from the path” and becoming a pariah.
Love this podcast so much!! I look forward to the aita every monday especially when its with Jamie ❤️
this is so sweet! Happy Monday, hope you like the episode x
@@shaaba OMG - YOU ACTUALLY RESPONDED!!
@@ThePokemonPrinceYT *Squeee* Senpai noticed me too! What an awesome start to the day, week, and month!
The OP who told their brother's girlfriend that she was annoying sounds to me like they still hold a grudge for what happened in high school. I agree they can tell her she's being rude, but the way they tells her is SO uncalled for. He's the drama.
I think something that can be compared to the first story's "secret" isn't if someone has kids but maybe if someone can't have kids for some reason. THAT is personal info that should be shared with prospective partners by the person and not by anyone else, even if the whole family knows. If OP's friend was a straight woman and cousin a straight man and the cousin had had a visectomy (is that the spelling in english?), would he tell the friend that info as well or would he think it is too private?
For the first one, I had cousins like that and would absolutely share the information. They are homophobic, transphobic and I would absolutely tell any potential people wanting to date them about that and there strict dating rules, such as not even holding hands. I would not want them to hurt my friend, if no sex before marriage is a no go for my friend, than I rather they step back now vs in a month of dating. I could end up being blamed by either of them. I think being informed is best. But that's just me.
That second one is honestly a Hallmark movie! Don't worry, just play it in reverse and everything will be okay.
I interupt people sometimes when they're almost done speaking, because I was the youngest at home and if I didn't do that as a kid, I just wouldn't ever get a chance to say anything... 😅 Now I know that I sometimes do this and when I hear myself do it again I stop and say: "Sorry! You weren't done." I also try to notice when someone is trying to say something and keeps getting interupted by someone else, I give them a chance by asking them what they wanted to say.
my favorite memory of marmite is a vicar of dibley episode where mrs cropley bakes a cake with what looks like chocolate frosting but it's actually marmite, I laugh every time 😂