Tesla Model 3 SR+ 60 kWh LFP cold battery charging test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2022
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How long has it been since you start this channel to educate people on EV? Even today, when EV is quite ubiquitous, you are still here educating us. Thank you, man!
true! thx@Bjørn:)
Great analysis Bjorn, the Model Y is looking to have a really versatile battery and definately an interesting car. It has certainly moved up my list when time comes to swap my Kia E Niro 64kWh. Keep up the wonderful work.
Great video, Graph 2 is very key to this as it shows that because the Model Y (Cold) has both a front and read motor (so two afterburners) it draws more energy to try to heat up the pack as much as possible as quickly as it can. This is "less efficient" but does mean a faster charge.
The SR+ with only one afterburner is slower to warm up hence slower charging but is more "consumption efficient"
Like most things, it is a compromise between speed and energy usage.
As Bjorn says - this is an edge case, and for me the speed of charge "to get back on the road" is more important in these situations to me.
Very interesting. It is great to see data on the actual performance of these different battery types and temperatures. Thanks Bjørn, you are the best with your careful test procedures and insightful analysis of the results. 🙂
So lesson is: always navigate to supercharger, no matter where you want to charge. I wish they would implement a setting to manually prepare the battery for charging.
You can also navigate to any other fast charger which is listed inside the Tesla.
Instead of button for manually preparing the batter in my opinion it would be better if Tesla would simply add all chargers listed on GMaps to the navigation system so that you can navigate to any fast charger and the car will preheat. Right now only a very small fraction is listed.
Amazing work! Thanks a lot also for the pragmatic, realistic conclusion.
LFP hot battery for the win!
LFP cold battery for the come back!
Excellent education for us. Thank you for bringing real data to life for us to understand our vehicles.
Very interesting, thanks for the data based videos
As always, great video Bjorn. I have only one suggestion/question, is it possible to add color coding to the spreadsheet? It would really make it easier to compare all the cars.
I finally got an answer to how long to charge an LFP model 3 in cold weather.... 10C.....now I would like very much if you could try it at -20C... I live in Canada it would be nice to know....while I am waiting for my Tesla Model 3 RWD with LFP....it's been 7 month and just got message it not coming till 2 to 3 more months... Canadian Winter will then be just around the corner. Thank you for an outstanding job 🙏🙏🙏
Amazing test conclusions. 👍
It would be nice to choose if you want to use the afterburner and save some energy if you have 5 min more time to charge.
Can you make another video where you count how many EVs there are on roads in Norway? The previous one it's almost 2 years old
If the SR+ driver is going to charge to around 90%, it only saves 14 minutes with a hot battery vs a cold battery.
So for the sake of just being able to go straight to the hotel in the evening, and not charging after a long drive when the battery is warm, it’s not too bad really. Just 14 minutes extra time required to charge to 90% if leaving it to the morning.
SR+ cold added 45 kWh in 50 minutes . Useable remaining is 6.2 kWh at 10:04 and after 20 minutes it is 18.1 kWh (added 11.9 kWh). After 30 minutes it is 30.7 kWh (added 24.5 kWh). After 40 minutes it is 43 kWh (added 36.8 kWh).
SR+ hot added 45 kWh in 36 minutes (14 minutes faster). Useable remaining is 5.7 kWh at 21:28 and after 20 minutes it is 38.4 kWh (added 32.7 kWh). After 30 minutes it is 46.9 kWh (added 41.2kWh). After 40 minutes it is 52.5 kWh (added 46.8 kWh).
YLR cold added 45 kWh in 33 minutes. Useable remaining is 7.1 kWh at 09:53 and after 20 minutes it is 36.6 kWh (added 29.5 kWh). After 30 minutes it is 48.7 kWh (added 41.6 kWh). After 40 minutes it is 58.2 kWh (added 51.1 kWh).
YLR hot added 45 kWh in 29 minutes. Useable remaining is 10.5 kWh at 23:01 and after 20 minutes it is 45.5 kWh (added 35 kWh). After 30 minutes it is 56.5 kWh (added 46 kWh). After 40 minutes it is 64.1 kWh (added 53.6 kWh).
(Ignore time stamps!)
Useful summary - thanks. A semicolon avoids software time stamp and can still be interpreted by humans.
At 11:00, we can trust the numbers from the chargers/Tesla. That is the energy withdrawn from the grid and the car only shows what goes in the car. The difference between what the charger displays is the efficiency of the charger (plus losses on the cable) and the difference between what car displays and the SMT is the losses in the car (cables, conversion if AC charged and warming/cooling). The higher the charging speed, the higher the losses on same temperature conditions - V2 charging I recorded about 8% losses (end to end losses car + charger) while on V3 was about 13%.
interesting video. im looking at buying a lfp model y. i guess as long as you drive 400km before dc charging it doesnt matter.
I think another option, if you have about 15% charge on a cold battery and you're going to need to rapid charge at the start of your journey, is to preconditioning the car from the app. In the Tesla app there will be an indicator to say that it's warming up the battery too.
It didn't used to be possible to pre-warm below 20% SOC but now the app just asks you to confirm you're aware of the low charge level.
Does that preheat the battery as well, not just the cabin?
@@2006craig Yes, when the battery is cold, a red "battery warming" icon appears when you're in the app.
This is only a mild preheat to prepare for driving. The battery preheat for supercharging is only possible when navigating to a supercharger while sitting in the car. Sad but true.
@@bastianm5478 Correct, it's only a mild preheat. But you're still going to get a faster Supercharger session (faster initial kW and subsequent ramp up) this way than if you plug in without the preheat. In the same way, with this mild preheat the car can start you off with a better regen power capability whereas with a cold battery you get the "limited regen" warning.
I think it would be good to also compare kWh added.
--Was this an old SR+ or a new one with Heatpump?-- Saw that it was an 2022 :)
Because the new ones heat up waaaaay quicker than the old ones as they also use the heatpump for heating up the battery. You can hear it ramping up from outside quite a lot. Typically it takes a 40min drive if the battery is at 5ish degrees with an fast charger as destination to get to full 170kW speed. The old SR+ without heat pump struggle a lot in winter sadly, they take more than a hour to heat up.
Do you mean a model 3 highland and do you mean 5 degrees Celcius? How about minus 5 degrees Celcius? About an hour in highland?
I mean the refresh, not the Highland. However Highland will behave exactly the same as the whole thermal management system is the same and the battery as well. So 40min is enough.
I mean 5 degrees, not minus 5. Getting the battery to a negative values needs quite a lot of time sitting outside. Even on -10°C ambient it will need 2-3days before you have -5 in the pack.@@bastianm5478
I would really like to get your opinion to the surprisingly flat charging curve on e-tron. Even with a huge buffer it feels like they ar burning the battery cells with that flat curve. What's your view?
Etron GT, the charging champion, also doesn't wanna be cold charged and it takes about 10min until it ramps up the power. At least it already starts at ~70kW, which is okay, but way less than what its supposed to charge (up to 270kW).
would be helpful to have a stopwatch graphic up.
Looking at the Model Y numbers here it seems unless you are using a v3 Supercharger pre-heating is not really of much benefit as it still pulls 100-120 kw when cold so using up 3-5% on a full preheat seems a little wasteful. Maybe Tesla could implement on non LFP batteries an algorithm where unless you are navigating to a 250kw charger or higher it doesn't bother pre-heating above 15 degrees or so? I'd be intrigued to know what your opinion is Bjorn. P.s thanks again for so many great videos, I've learned an incredible amount from your content. ;-)
Thanks Bjorn, I just ordered a TM3 with an LFP battery and I was very scared of how long the battery would warm up if I forgot to preheat it. The movie helped me a lot. You could do a cold LFP battery charging test e.g. at -5 or -10 degrees Celsius (winter in Poland)
I am using LFP Model 3 in Poland, no issues. Just don’t go below 10% in winter without charging.
@@nietypowy88 60 or 55 kWh?
@@piotreksz5713 60 kWh, zawsze ładuje na 100%. Auto idealne.
@@nietypowy88 jak złapać z Tobą kontakt? Mógłbyś coś więcej powiedzieć o aucie?
@@piotreksz5713 forum Elektrowóz
hi bjorn can you test the range of say tesla 3 sr with chill mode . What does chill mode do on a trip thks
th-cam.com/video/TDkE4Qx1nB0/w-d-xo.html
interesting,
it looks like it is not a big deal if you have time, it takes something like 15 min more to charge the battery up, and you probably save some juice during the travel without any preconditioning
Nice video Bjørn. I would love to see you make it standard to have a cold session in your charging videos as well.
For the LFP, I think I have never heard you comment on the shifting of the charging curve, when you plug in with say 40%. People are reporting that you get high speed and that the curve is just shifting to the right. Maybe that could also explain why the cold curve gets above the hot curve in your video. The slow charging in the beginning could resemble to plug it in with higher SoC. I think you should make a video about this shifting of the curve with the LFP.
The shifting to the right is really cool.
You can plug-in with more than 50% and will still get full speed. Extremely nice in case you need to go to the toilet or whatever and have a charger nearby.
This is a charging curve of my 55kWh LFP when plugged in with 52% at a 150kWh HPC: i.imgur.com/69gySiN.png
I'm not sure I understand this comment. Do you mean that it charges faster when over 50% state of charge, going against the usual learning of "the lower soc, the faster charging"?
so in 50kW land for LFP 22°C ambient or yoyo :D
The voltage on the LFP battery is weird. You would expect it to rise while charging. Instead the hot LFP goes down from 375V to 368V and the cold from 367V up to 373V before dropping back to 370V. Maybe it's a misreading by scan my tesla.
Please make more tests on kWh from charger vs. kWh to battery (vs. "kWh received" on Tesla screen). Discrepancy is very interesting. When Supercharging do you pay all kWh, or only kWh to battery, or "kWh added"?
All.
Fun stuff!
Seems like if you charge from a level near maybe 30% up to near 80% the average kWh/min will be very similar for all the cars?
I don't think so. If you have 30 % SoC with 10 °C battery and 30 % SoC with 30 °C battery, you still have a different charging speed. The charging speed is always relative to the temperature
Doesn't the new LFP have also the heat pump so it can give more bacon heat to the battery?
The Model Y may be apparently less efficient because it "burns" energy to heat up the battery with 2 motors instead of 1 ???
TL;DR always precondition LFP in cold weather
Fantastic interesting video. In 2021 I have made the same measurements on my SR + LFP (55 kWh) model with battery start temp. at 13°, 22°, 29° and 39° and start SOC on 10%. I achieved almost the same, but slightly worse results as the increase in battery temperature during charging was not nearly as great in my measurements. The explanation may lie in release versions and in a different battery size. The LFP battery is a robust battery with presumably long life, but - as Bjørn says - you have to know the disadvantage it has to be able to handle it.
Has your 2021 SR+ LFP already got the heatpump?
IN all my tests not the motor is used for heating up but the heat pump, so it makes sense that old cars without that heat upp way slower.
The sr+ is absolutely terrible in any kind of "cold" weather. It's 13degrees Celsius here tonight and I preheated the car for 40 mins on way to charger. Got here at 20% and it's pulling only 50kw!!! Shocking. Car is basically useless when it comes to charging in cold weather. Thank god I charge at home 99% of the time.
Also worth nothing in the 40minutes preheating it used 6% of the battery according to the energy app. 6%! That's crazy to then only charge at 50kw. Plus when u start charging its also heating up using more energy. Basically burning upwards of 10% to heat the battery. Crazy inefficient and costly
What about pre conditioning
I think that might be the point of this test - what happens if you don't.
Saves you time (if you start it early enough), but not money.
love sheets
Charging Li battery at near 60 Celsius is definitely hurting the battery, looks like Tesla is sacrificing battery life in exchange for charging speed (user experience).
I really don't understand why the "Hot" M3 charges slower than the "Cold" Model 3 after about 56%! I thought it was the battery of the "Hot" one that was too high in temperature, but it's not! Between 56 and 80% the two batteries are mostly at the same temperature, around 45°, that should be the optimal temperature, so then WHY DOES the one that starts with a hot battery charge slower at that point?????
Because the cooler kicks in. Too high AND too low temperatures are not going to let you fast charge
Idea for future clip: If you live close to a mountain pass or under-sea tunnel: do you save energy by navigate to supercharger / preheating battery to be able to use full regen the entire way downhill? (vs. not preheating and have limited regen - having to use breaks)
Finally a real world test, it only took 10 years 😆 Most people are quite spontaneous and does not preheat a car for 1h. +10 degrees is not even cold. Try -10. Always end your trip with fastcharging if you dont have destination charging.
This is not common case. I already mentioned it many times in the video. Consider it corner case. Unless you're totally clumsy. Then EV might not be for you.
@@bjornnyland or have kids that borrow the car every evening and return it with 5% charge, while living in an apartment without charging possibility 😆
I would love to see a real world useage test of the teslas. Charge to 100% and drive 4x10km per day for a few days (without charging inbetween) and se how far you get. It will show actual energy useage and efficiency. Much more common than 1000km nonstop i would say.
Anyway, keep up the awesome work 💪👍
Educate the kids about good charging habits.
@@bjornnyland it may be a corner case but it happens. My Ioniq was outside in -20 for three days when it waited for a replacement of the rear bumper. Should you avoid LFP if those scenarios cannot be avoided?
@@robertjohansson3182 The big picture here is that you may want to add 10 minutes to your charging session estimate with LFP if you plan to leave at around 50 percent charge. If leaving at >80 percent charge it's a wash because LFP has a better sustained charge curve than NMC in that scenario.
Might exacerbate things at -20, so lets just say 15 more minutes to 90 percent for now, until someone tests something that extreme to get more specific numbers.