The People Who Run Harley Davidson Are Idiots - The Revolution Max Sportster S Is NOT A Sportster!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- HD has tried to replace the traditional XL Sportster a few times in recent years, but now they are finally dropping the ax after 65 years of continuous production.
The new Sportster and it's Revolution Max engine may in fact be better in every way than the original, but it doesn't have any of the qualities that made the XL Sporty the timeless, iconic living classic that it is today.
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Harley has a long history of idiocy in the top management. There's still enough of us old school guys and aftermarket parts support to keep Sportys on the road for generations to come, but it's sad to see the factory kill a classic.
True. Their marketing seems to try to expand their marketshare by offending their base. Idiots.
Holy shit I went to my local dealer that normally has a few of each Sportster model… My local dealer has over 20 Sportsters on their showroom floor! Literally flooding the place! Seems like a cheap stunt to sell a bike that has been the same since the Evo Sportster came out in 85/86! $14,995?!? Fuck you Harley-Davidson we’re not all stupid! I’m not bailing you out!
I have no idea how anyone enjoyed riding the sportsters before they dampened the vibrations. I road a buddies and couldn’t wait to give it back to him. In general, the sportsters are too small for me, but I do enjoy my Road Glide Special with the M8.
@@Dave-sw2dm well good for you newbie! I’ve owned 5 Sportsters in my lifetime and comfort is an afterthought as it was for people who wanted a basic and reliable motorcycle. Listen to the man on the video.
I’ve been across this country on the Sportsters I previously owned and they are bullet proof. Sportsters can suit any riding need but as is with most bikes you have a level of discomfort but that bike will get you anywhere!
That fugly new thing they slapped the Sportster name on is probably a stunt to destroy for all we know. So instead of wrenches you can belly up to the H-D dealership plug it in because it needs a port in case something goes wrong. With a Sportster it’s an easy fix on the side of the road. So get used to the dealerships if you’re brave to actually travel! Good luck! 👍
@@mcdgtodd , think the new sportsters are to meet euro regulations, and they probably sell many sportsters overseas. My first bike was a 1977 Yamaha XS750 with full frame mounted fairing, saddlebags, etc. to make it a great and smooth touring bike. I don’t let marketing affect my buying decisions.
Pretty sure harley-davidson is just a tee shirt company anymore anyway.
10 year old comment..
@Brian MacLennan: To match 10 y.o. product from "the Motor Company."
And even those are overpriced
Last years technology at tomorrows prices.
Buy a $30,000 t-shirt and H-D will give you a free bike!
I have a 1999 883 Sportster with almost 400,000 miles on the original engine. I've replaced belt drive three times gone through 40 rear tires and 20 front tires brake pads countless oil and filter changes and the bike is like the Energizer Bunny it just keeps running and running and running. It's reliability has been phenomenal much greater than I expected. The bike may not be worth anything monetarily but as my first Harley and a bike I've owned for over 20 years it means a lot to me.
I still have my 72 xlch has 327,000 miles. Bought it in 74. But she still ran strong when I parked her in my garage 5 years ago. My grandson asked me a couple weeks ago if I would let him restore it. But you take care of those bikes and she'll run. I wasn't ever into going fast
Some of us bought Sportsters because we wanted a good bike...but not just any good bike.
You are right, but Harley screwed up long ago with that bike. When they folded Buell they should have taken the old 1200XL Sport and updated the lineup with all the Buell performance parts re finished in chrome and black. 80-100hp Sportsters right off the showroom floor at reasonable prices. It was already engineered. Big screw up.
They did. It was the XR. Problem was, it was ahead of its time.
Fender did the same. I have a pre 84 for sale
As someone who works in marketing, I can assure you that "heritage" and "legacy" mean no more than reusing a name and banking on it. Executives and advertising people are happy to cash in on nostalgia for long-gone brands. It was the same thing when Chevy brought back the Blazer name a few years back. The people making the decisions don't care about the customer, and they especially don't care about the product. They care about and want the sales numbers!
Interesting you brought up the Blazer, that was the first thing I thought of also. They kept the name, but the S10 model was never a Blazer. In my eyes, they foolishly killed the Blazer.
Most people running companies have degrees but zero common sense. They want to maximize profits, instead of being happy with a good profit. As a result they ruin companies.
I can't name any truly improved products in many years. Companies ideas of improvement are finding a way to cheapen the product and lower production costs. Even computers are no longer improved; they are just changed because people in charge of designing them have to keep maing changes in order to keep their jobs. I had a 2006 Macbook Pro with a 2012 operating system that would run rings around anything similar today.
We would be better off to go back 15 to 50 or 60 years and remake the good stuff.
Fender and Gibson are making bank on that
I want to study marketing one day more in depth than my uneducated brain can comprehend currently. It seems like an intriguing field to work in.
I think the Blazer thing was more for the social media numbers than anything else. No one who wants a FWD crossover cares about the K5 or S10 Blazers and no one who likes the K5 or S10 Blazers cares about a FWD crossover. They gained a LOT of hate comments online from what they did though and that amount of activity causes the various social media algorithms to push those posts to more people.
I wish they still made an s10
Harley Davidson didn’t just “look a gifted horse in the mouth”, they took it behind the barn and shot it!
You know the saying "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" is advising you don't look at the horse's teeth and realize it is old, tired and almost dead.
The horse is being gifted to you because the owner no longer wants it and can't sell it to anyone.
Maybe there's important wisdom in that old saying for Harley.
@@scot6089 yes exactly.
Like it is bad manners to look under a lady's china to see it's value.
It is bad to online or store check the price of a gift to see if she gave you more or less than you gave her.
It is bad for a new fiancé to have her ring appraised.
You can see an old horse at an auction by checking length of teeth, condition of gums, number of teeth. And that brings us back to Harleys...which use 1950s technology to convert copious volumes of gasoline into noise....and some horsepower.
Then necrophiled it.
@@STho205
Don’t be an idiot...go look under your own china sometime!
We've know they were idiots for years, Uncle Tony...
🙄😂
In my youth, I thought they were just shit-heads. I wiped up the oil and all that entailed and it was forty years later they began to reduce the drippage.
😂
The only one I'd ever want is an xr750,at least it's got power and it's a real bike.
I was tempted to go riding with a Harley buddy on my Yamaha wr250 but we would leave em in the dust on the backroads around here.
No truer words were ever spoken
I've owned my '06 Sportster XL 1200 C (rubbermount) since '08. Never had ANY problems. 4 sets of tires, so far, regular maintenance, replaced the worthless HD rear shocks, and taller handlebars. An easy to work on motorcycle and like you said, "You can make it from an off-road to a full-on custom, the aftermarket is there". Great review!!
My first HD was an 883 Sportster. First street bike actually. It was what I could afford at the time, It was about 7 years old with only 1,200 miles. The owner was an absolute pay attention to detail mechanical and clean neat freaky neighbor dude. Months after I bought it from him I got caught in the rain on the way home. He took one look at his previously spotless show room new bike and had a melt down on me. So much he detailed her up for me for free!!! I eventually sold it to a guy at work. I really did enjoy that MC. Enough that I'd have another if the price was right.
@@larryspiller6633 I'm at 38000 miles now and still going. Sportsters are the most modified and individualized motorcycles of all time!
I bought my 2005 1200 Roadster new, put 50K miles on it in the first three years, and currently have 83k on it. When the drive belt broke at 74k miles I replaced it myself in about one hour.
@@spaceflight1019 Never had HD work on any of mine either. I couldn't afford the outrageous prices. Not saying I've never had a different shop work on them before. Like you, normal maintenance, parts and pieces are done at home. I got lucky when my first drive belt failed, I was still in my driveway heading out for the day. Isn't much different than putting a chain on a dirt bike. Live and learn. Peace.
My Buddy works at Harley, he says this isn’t true. They’re just trolling uncle Tony in hopes of a free turkey.
😆
🦃🦃🦃🦃
🤣🤣🤣😂👆
If it's free it's definitely worth saving up for!
Ha ha
I put 96K miles on my 2006 Electra Glide. Also rode the heck out of my 1984 Sportster Roadster when I was younger.
Never a mechanical issue or leak with either one.
I’ve owned many other bikes from different makers over the years. No real issues with any of them.
My '86 sportster was like a 318 mopar.....
It ran forever with no problems! 😎 💯 😎
H-D management made their biggest mistake years ago by requiring dealers, some of which had been around since the beginning, to either invest huge amounts of money into enlarging their shops or, lose their franchise. They wanted to bring in more "upscale" clientele but, essentially abandoned their core consumers.
It's so quiet at one of our local dealers ,the employees go and move their cars around the parking lot every 2 hours or so to make it look like it's busy 😄
I have to agree with this. One of my local dealers did great business. Harley came along and wanted him to either build a new building, or give up his franchise. He was at retirement age, so he opted out, selling his franchise to someone who built a huge new shop. You go there now? Crickets. Harley opted to produce bikes that were on the floor, ready to go, for the basic weekend warrior. My belief is their HUGEST mistake was when you had to place an order for the bike then wait for it to arrive. When they went from that, to being able to walk into a showroom and buy a new one off the floor, the writing was on the wall. One could order a new Harley, wait for it, then sell it for 4-5k more than what they paid for it. It happened for years here in my neck of the woods. The dealers took over from the resellers, and god bless them, it worked for a period of 20 years or so. But now? Crickets. There are fewer new riders, and us old guys aren’t getting any younger. Harley trying an electric bike? Fail. Harley trying a sport bike (V-Rod)? That didn’t last either. I don’t know what their next step in their Evolution (see what I did there?) is. But they better figure out their next business plan, or they’re in trouble. Just my two pennies.
In my area they closed 2 Beautiful new shops, from what i was told: They want there shops just off the Interstate. Both the dealers were a few miles off the highway. Just Sayin!
@@rossilake218 I've heard the same thing. Harley was making their older dealers jump through hoops to maintain their franchise. It was bullshit, if you ask me. There's one that got a pass about 45-50 miles from me. Neidengards HD in Wintersville, OH. Unless that's changed too since I was down there 7 years ago.
My Sportster is a 02 model 1200 Xl had it for 20 years. It is modded and I love it. It has 45,000 miles on it and still runs strong.
By strong do you mean it's still a heavy slow vibrating pile of garbage?
@@skipads8784 No. that would be a discription of you. Except I would change the word garbage to Sh-t
Uncle Tony is a Man among men. He understands stuff.
You're right about parts. I built my 73 ironhead junk into a close to stock machine that starts and runs great. I love the way it handles with Baha tires on the dirt roads. My first Harley was a 76 xl that I bought brand new. They are excellent handling , heavy duty motorcycles and more fun than the bigger bikes except on long trips.
UT, I live up here by HD.
I can tell you they have gotten on board with modern large corp methods. What I mean is, they have brought in the young "educated" business people and they all sat down in iimportant meetings and discussed "what HD means as a brand." Emphasis on Brand. You know what I mean, we have all seen this.
HD has gone down the path where the product is not what people identify as HD. The corp wanted people to recognize the name HD itself as some kind of entity with whatever social/economic/financial associations came with it. And THAT is what they have focused on. Clothes, stickers, slapping their name on ANYTHING to "get the brand out there".
The product, the actual bikes..... well those are important, but only because that is what people will ultimately aspire to buy because of the brand.
This has changed the core market, the target market, and the entire scope of the company. They built an very, very, VERY fancy factory...... well let me clarify, the part of the factory you get to go on tour and see. They treat the freegin tour like a product. It is HD entertainment.
The company does some good things. I don;t mean to totally bash it. but they have moved away from bikes and embraced modern branding. it's like they think the brand itself could survive if they completely stopped making bikes. They partner with all kinds of people to slap their logo on stuff. HD F150? Because people think of trucks when they think HD right? No, but they think HD when they get into the truck then. Orange and black is almost as important as two wheels to them.
Once you understand this approach and how insane it is compared to traditional manufacturing and brand recognition and loyalty, it makes what is happening with their bikes understandable. Not normal or even logical, but understandable.
I have an 06 883 and I love how it looks and sounds and handles. It is insane to get rid of the Sportster. Thank you for your work
Yepp 100%. I agree. In the late 60's you could build your own car like that. From a six cyl 3 spd to full on drag package. Color, trims,wheels Oh the good Ol days.
today you buy packages they want , it's not about what you want these days
@@imarobot3757 Yet today, you can literally buy a factory 8 second street car!!
@@Anarchy-Is-Liberty sure I see the results in bone yards
Big bike Harley riders would look down on Sportster riders. Sportster 1200 riders would look down on 883 riders. I used to own a 883 and the amount of crap I would get from Harley guys who owned the big bikes was insane. I always thought Sportsters and especially the 883 got a bad rap. I'm not sure if the brand killed it or if the sales guys killed it. When I bought mine they said things like, every guy who buys a sportster is back in here 2 months later to trade it in towards this model (point at some 16k+ softail)
I bought a 2010 883 used, rebuilt title, on a whim and that bike was surprisingly better than I could have expected. 👍
I’m not a motorcycle guy but have always heard 883’s were “girl bikes” which I always thought was idiotic. Its like those dudes had justify a massive bike payment by knocking on a lesser priced bike. Meanwhile the 883 guys (or girls) ride theirs and the big bike guys trailer theirs. Lol
My first Harley was a '99 883, now I own a 75 XLH 1000, my youngest son owns a 2008 1200n. I've ridden his 1200 a few thousand miles, my old 883 was a lot more comfortable, was faster and handled a lot better. Comfort may be age related, I was 24 and 185lbs when I had my 883, I'm 40 now and weigh a bit more. But the 1200 starts sounding like crap at 75mph, my old 883 would hit 90mph easy and ran like a raped ape.
The 883 was just a branding exercise. The natural size for the engine is a 1200. But you can get 883s quite cheap (low mileage too, because owners get pressured into 'upgrading') and a bolt on 1275 kit for $700 from Hammer. I sold my 2005 883 to a mate, and have a 95 bobbed 883, which I will never sell. probably put the big bore kit on it though!
The thing that Tony didn't address is, looking down the road, Harley is in trouble. Their traditional buyer is getting too old to ride or dying off. They've been trying to find ways to attract younger buyers and, so far, have been unsuccessful. This is an attempt to cash in on the Sportster name. Maybe it'll work. Mind you, they could call the original something like the Sportster Classic and sell them side-by-side like New Coke and Coke Classic.
Should of never been involved with Ford
@@Drmcclung they killed Buell BECAUSE nobody bought them. Just like the V-Rod, the other bike that was supposed to be for under-50 dudes. The only reason the V-Rod lasted 10 years is because they were under contract with Porsche to produce them for that long. Who would kill off models that are in demand?
The air cooled Sportster won't pass emissions, so they don't have much of a choice.
@@Drmcclung Buell did NOT sell like crazy, they didn't even break even and it cost the motor company a fortune to get the machining and gear setup for the bikes. They got rid of Buell because it wasn't a good business choice and the world was at the start of the biggest recession we have ever seen lol. There was only 135 000 Buells sold worldwide in their entire lifetime. That's less than most companies sell in a year. That being said, they should have kept them around as build to order bikes or something along those lines.
@@Drmcclung LOL yah, I'm well aware of who and what Erik Buell was to HD, Yes, I know the whole story. I'm a huge Buell fan, that doesn't make what you are saying true. They got a brand new motor from Rotax that they never recouped the money from either. Harley Davidson doesn't do stuff like that unless it benefits them financially. 2009 was the year that all the car companies needed to be bailed out, but you think an off brand bike that was meant for a small niche market was doing well enough to survive? You are wrong, and you are the one that doesn't have a clue. How can you say they ran it into the ground when the best Buells built were built after 2003? What a silly comment lol HD is actually doing just fine if you paid any attention to their quarterly earnings and stats. The new Sportster S, Nighster and Pan America are selling like hot cakes, and no the recession that is about to hit is nowhere near that of 09,but sure... 😂 Buell as it is today is not doing "just fine" and Erik isn't even involved in it. They make build to order bikes out of a small warehouse nowadays, they aren't doing "just fine" 😂
Uncle Tony’s channel is 💯 legit , from lawnmower cold starts , junk cam shafts , hot rod builds and motorcycle info . Keep up the great content Uncle , maybe one day he can do a how to smoke a Turkey video .
Cheers
He needs to build a lawnmower,I did and it's the biggest hoot I ever had.
You ain't lived until you swapped out an anemic 12hp for a 30, and regeared it to do 35.
It'll scare the crap out of you like a bucking bronco, speed wheelies at 20mph and donuts all day.
My 1st bike was an 85 Honda Sabre v65. It was rated at 121hp, they made 100-105hp at the wheel. In the right hands, they would run mid to low 11's in the 1/4. I made one quarter mile pass on mine 11.88 @118mph. 1st time I rode a 1200 sportster, I was terribly disappointed. They do look cool tho.
I was 13 and got my hands on a 50$ 78 kz650 4 cylinder.
Cleaned the carbs,ripped the fenders and lights off and even found a knobby in dad's old stash.
From what I found ,they ran low 13s or so.
What a hoot on the old railroad bed,where I could hit like 95-100 and leave my buddies with the modern 2 strokes in the dust.
I worked for my bikes ,my buddies got new ones for Christmas.
I'd say I had just as much fun.
Man, I LOVE Royal Enfield - what they have done. Quality up 200%....
RE’s extra parts like seats and tanks are very reasonable also.
A lot of people were looking for a cheap 650 they could work easily on themselves and RE came up with the goods. I never owned a harley but have always hankered after the smaller Sportster but they've always been too pricey here in the uk. I guess I'm from an era when 7 or 800 cc was considered a big engine. I love the bike in this video, I'll get one one day if I don't run out of time! Great video, good clear information. 👍.
40 years ago I had a 1974 XLH the engine was stroked, balanced/blueprinted, it had handground linewebber cams, an S&S carb with an external accelerator pump added.
Custom paint, California 4" over springer front end and gold anodized aluminum double spoked rims.
The sporsters could be anything you wanted them to be for half the price of a "big bike"
👍
You were living the dream.
@@raybrensike42
Yup, 17yrs old, just out of highschool, no major bills or responsibilities, and I took full advantage of that situation. 👍😁
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a "hell raiser" I worked hard and played harder, but was never out to hurt anyone or anything while I was enjoying life.
👍
HD hasn't appreciated the Sportster for decades. They've assumed that nobody really likes the Sportster; that its buyers really want a big twin but aren't ready for one yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if this latest dumb move is what finally kills Harley. And you know what? I don't care. I've got my Sporty, and if they're not gonna build them anymore, then I'm no longer a potential customer.
That would be so damn cool if they did a genuine dealer build-your-own experience!
Bet if a company did that these days with the unique experience - and made it similar in price it would be a billion dollor idea. think build a bear .
@@Joebauers2505 Build-A-Bobber……….
I agree completely with your statements. For years and years so many people who wanted their first Harley would start on a Sporty! In 1983 my first was a 78 XLH. Unfortunately, as you said, the new breed at HD aren't thinking of history or lineage. It's really sad.
I'm perfectly happy on my 92 Softail Custom......long live the Evo!! Great video brother!
They're not real biker guys at Harley like they used to be.
Same bike as me! 1995 Softail Custom
The Harley mystique. I know a guy who's 6'3" and rides a Sportster 48. I asked him why he didn't get a bagger. One of the things he told me is that when he and his riding buddies stop somewhere, his 48 is the bike people want to check out.
Around 2008 my bosses and their buddies had expensive Harleys. Stock 65hp deals to 110+HP hotrods. I had a junky 86 Yamaha FJ1200, used $100 header/exhaust, modded airbox, and I jetted the carbs. 99.8hp at the wheel. Slaughtered every Harley that would run me, and never got asked to ride with them again
..and their's looked better standing still than yours. Not everyone buys a bike for speed
@@tking7513 Without a doubt, they had some cool looking Harleys. On the "Not everyone buys a bike for speed", maybe. The enormous Harley aftermarket/hotrod parts industry seems to indicate folks spend lots of $ making pigs fly.
Yamaha wasn't fucking around those years.
Besides declining sales and emission regs, much of the machining equipment/tooling used to make the sportster engine were at end of life.
I bought a 2000 sportster this year because it was a price I couldn't pass up. These are the entry level harley, I worked a t a dealership in 73, for a year, sweeping and mopping, wiping the oil drips up before a customer came through the door, and I've had half a dozen since then. Harley has been slow to keep up with anything, and it's been their downfall. A good friend, way younger, is taking the sportster off my hands, the main reason I bought it. Tony, you got it right.
I'm confused - You're saying being slow to keep up is their downfall in response to a video about the new whiz-bang liquid cooled overhead cam Sporty being the cause of their impending downfall.
I always liked the flatt tracker look on those bikes , but I started on dirt bikes and my first rides on street bikes where on fast bikes of the time gpz 750 turbos , ninja 1000s vfr 750s and on and on so from there every Harley just felt old and slow with scary brakes and handling.
i had that kawasaki gpz 750 turbo ,, super fast for the age it came out , i also had a vf100r , it looked cool and was pretty fast when it would run but it had poor wiring and it finally died
Uncle Tony, I had a '62 Sportster with a Ceriani front end and a Joe Hunt Magneto-stock from the factory. The bike weighed 325 lbs dry and really accelerated! Back in the day, you could stroke the bike out to + 150 cc's by using a KH 900cc lower end. I believe this made for a 4 9/16 inch stroke. The K model ignition system moved opposite of the sportster, so the ignition systems weren't interchangable. Not a problem for me though. I used a KH Joe hunt Magneto on my '47 Indian Chief! Of course the Chief is a 42.5 degree V twin vs the 45 degree Harley but what the hell, it was close enough! Thanks for the video...I'm used to seeing you play with Mopar units! You brought tears to this old Biker's eyes! Back then, we built our own parts or modified existing hardware. My uncle was an old (WW2) Biker who worked at the Indian Factory for many years before and after the war, and closed the factory down in 1953. Cheers!
Im not a bike guy, but I always thought these were pretty cool with that throwback 1970s race bike look.
Got the same bike, he’s standing behind, gets a lot of compliments, flat track colors.
Pretty much nailed it, except for the last bit, due to the cost of labor.
When it comes to machinery like the Sportster, you, I and many others aren’t looking for transportation, it’s much more than that!
From a manufacturer perspective, the the multi piece, roller bearing crank and gear driven, 4 cam valve train are expensive to produce and don’t deliver the performance of the modern VVT valve-trains; although for many, it’s not about maximum Performance.
The right hand shift is likely best suited for the flat track, but in ‘75 the US DOT mandated standardizing the motorcycle controls, as well as daytime headlights.
FWIW, my first new machine was a ‘73 CH, which was produced before 1-1-73, so it did not come with turn signals, or the current “pig nose” tail lamp. The early ‘73 Sportsters came with the -55 style tail lamp.
1990 and earlier 4-speed Sportsters were equipped with essentially the same transmission as the K-model machines. Jacking the output of these machines into the stratosphere would often result in countershaft 3rd gear exiting the trans housing in front of the rear engine mount; the 5-speed is bulletproof.
Sportster was as close as you could get to a vintage Harley and have modern reliability. I have an 2018 Iron 1200 “Bobber.” The bike has soul, compared to modern bikes.
I've had a few bikes from a supermoto to a 1 of 765 triumph Daytona. I still miss my sporty. That bike did everything I asked of it so well and never complained.
So true... I only hope the availability of aftermarket parts will not decline too much now. Gotta keep my Sporty dragbike for another 25 years!
Ive got an 87 sporty XLH, bought it from my uncle who'd had it for over 20 years. just over 8k miles and aside from forward controls, bone stock. Its actually kinda nice, all Ive done is drill out the baffles, but its just a pleasant normal bike.
The designers wear skinny jeans, drive Tesla's and get their coffee at Starbucks. The EPA is also to blame. Did I mention manbuns?
To be fair, keeping this old design alive also means it still has to pass 2023 emissions, 2023 safety standards, etc... Is it the engineers or is it govt. mandates once again ruining everything that was once good? On the plus side, at least it's not an EV with a speaker that makes fake Harley engine sounds...yet.
Harley sells accessories and t-shirts, bikes not so much. Unfortunately, younger folks are afraid of their own shadow, many won't drive a car, must less a bike. All the motorcycle companies are having trouble attracting new riders.
I heard about the Sportster. Personally I don't think anything was a true Harley after they started the Evolution engines but it is sad to see the Sportster be dropped. I only ride my ironhead 1000. I'd never buy a new Harley Davidson motorcycle. Could buy a beautiful car for the price of a new bike.
You'd be happy to know that the "Evo" engine in the XL sportsters is just an old Ironhead with different heads and displacement.
@@PotatoeJoe69 I don't hate them. They were just too refined to be a real Harley. Once they didn't leak oil anymore they were too nice. I'd rather have a Japanese bike. Evos are good engines
I ride an 81 ironhead
@@joewilley7776 I have a 74 XLCH. Love the old iron
@@joewilley7776 I really miss my 81. My 80 amf not so much. And I love my 97 evo even though she hates sharing the garage with my 2022 Yamaha mt 07.
One of the biggest problems HD faces is this attitude. He says they've been making this bike for 65 years, like that's a good thing.
The book "Well made in America" is about HD in the late 80s, and it describes the same issues. When a new CEO walked into the boardroom in his motorcycle gear all the suits stared at him in shock. He convinced them all to try riding a Harley, something they'd never done before 😆
I had a '65 Sportster 900 cc. Chopped, bigger cams, etc. in the mid '70s Those were the days when Easy Rider magazine was starting out. I was young and heavy into biking. Wish I still had it.
They're moving to a different demographic. I think the emissions regs are strangling them too. BTW the bathtub chambers were a big part of the Evo improvements. The iron head hemi chambers didn't work well cuz of valve angle and no sqiish.
Tonys 883 has a hemispherical chamber. The 1200 has the bathtub chamber. If you do a basic 883 to 1200 conversation using the 883 heads the larger bore with the small diameter chamber gives you a nice squish band.
@@davidleonard8369 I think one or 2 years had the bathtub shape. I think they went hemi to lower compression. Not sure. The guys racing the 883s wanted the squish heads.
I would almost bet money the changes have something to do with epa regs
@@juliogonzo2718 euro 5 regulations.
@@juliogonzo2718 air cooled motors struggle with lean burn
My 1st bike was a 1983 sporty XLX 61! God I miss that little 1000! Black , drag bars! Good days. Sorry to see my 1st love go.
One of the major things that made them big was having owner maintenance friendly bikes that brought dudes into the gear head culture. Now bikes are so full of electronics that us/those guys are cut out. Sadly, many HD service techs struggle with all of the new tech as well. I have heard too many stories about the new bikes cutting out or having some other issue that they just can’t figure out.
The guys with oil and gas stained jeans have been tossed aside for dudes that wear a Rolex. I’ll keep my oily jeans thank you.
Low tech, carbureted EVO/Shovel forever.
2 biggest evolutionary changes: frame in 70's, EVO engine in '86. BUT what about the rubber-mounted frame in '04, and then FI in '07 which means your H-D now is computer-controlled. Then in 2022, the modern, actual power-making OHC liquid cooled Revolution Max. All part of the story. Also, they have not (yet) killed the Sporty we all love. You can still get a 900 (883) and 1200 brand new for '23. My 2003 is in my will and will never leave my possession until the original keys go into the grave with me. When I'm too old to ride it, I'll just look at it and listen to it idle.
I never have liked air cooled motorcycles, except dirt bikes. The nightster is one of the first harleys i have ever seen that I would debate buying.
the XR 1200 was the only harley i was ever really interested in.too bad it didnt last long enough to work out its issues.it shouldve been fairly easy for them to do.
Yep totally agree. HD has been really stupid since 2017. That's why I own a 17 fxdwg and 19 xl1200xs. And I am sick of apologists crying "it's due to emission standards" which is BS. Harley didn't cancel big twins when the epa got tight. No they reinvented the engine for the next tier. We got the Evo, Twincam, and M8 all engines that adapted to the newest standards. So why couldn't they make a new vtwin for the sportster that met emissions? Because they didn't WANT TO. Screw Harley. Baby with the bathwater is totally right.
Correct. they didn't want to.
My First Harley was a 1980 Sportster. Did many trips from NAS Whidbey Island to Forest Grove, Oregon. When I got Transferred to Squadron on USS Midway. So there bought a 1983 FXWG thru Military Sales. Still ride the FXWG today
want to play a game ? there is no winners dr falcun
My first bike was an 79 AMF 1000!!! I miss that bike - well I don't miss the oil leaks but it was cool!!!
Hope it has the factory flames
@@jimoinsolvay It was Candy Apple Red with bar & shield. The 80 a friend had was flames.
"nothing stays stagnant for 60 years".... Except the power output of these dinosaurs. Harley has always impressed me. Impressed me with how little power they manage to make with such large engines.
When I was researching for my first motorcycle purchase (last year) I think I remember coming to the same conclusion. I wanted to like Harley but just couldn't justify it for the expense and inconsistent reviews.
I dig the rumble and old styling but the thing barely justifies all the noise it makes. Now I love classic cars for the same reason but part of their charm comes from actually being old.. not pretending to be.
Alas it came down to naked sport bikes and dual sports lol.. dual sports it is and no regrets!
I laugh when I see them rated at 3600 rpms.
Just like a lawnmower 😄
It isn't about insane horsepower. It is about good low RPM torque.
@@michaelbenardo5695 true enough. My dad has an early 2000's Harley dyna that he's pretty much never used. Been tempted to see what it's all about. Clutch is insane heavy and rubber is dried out though 😬
@@gabrieltiso8537 Get it out and get it running!
The next step in the sportster line should have been new 6 speed over drive trans 4 valve heads and 80ci evo sportster engine. Now that would sell. This is coming from a H-D Master Tech up in OHIO
The biggest problem with the OG aircooled V-twin is, it doesn't meet any of the current regulations. And due to the design characteristics, it can't even be modified to do so without seriously compromizing performance and reliability. Polaris with Indian showed them at flat track, how badly their engine is trailing behind. Hopefully the new engine is up to date's standards, with at least some sort of reliability, otherwise it's over for them. As Tony said, literally everything else out there is a better option. Also the customizable product is something every motorcycle manufacturer should take note. It's just better business to sell five different bikes than one bike with five sets of wheels and tins, while those five bikes outperform the all-rounder in every way.
Great video! I love the idea of a bespoke Sportster. Guitarists pay a premium to get Custom Shop guitars that have cool stuff. Bespoke is cool. Bikes are no different. HD should make a killing with that idea. Good stuff UT! I like the way you think.
Love my 2001 Sportster 1200S. It's stock and I'm happy for it to say that way. No vibes up to 80mph, handles and stops great. Lovely punchy low down torque, it red lines at 5500rpm. My kind of bike.
I have an '01 1200 also. Bought it new in December '00. It's a great bike, very cool looking even now, and I still ride it all the time! The old Evo rigid mount sportsters like these are great, solid motorcycles that will last a lifetime.
My 2014 1200 will max out a little over 6300 rpm. But that's because I tuned the ecm. Factory tune was too lean and robbing me of 1k rpm. 21.5k miles strong.
The 1200 c with the screaming eagle kit scared the hell outta me! what a hotrod!
Had my 05 1200R for 15 years until it broke beyond feasible repair. I won't be right until I have another. My super glide is sweet but it still ain't the Roadster. You got it right sir.
I still have my first Sportster, a 1971 XLH. If you wanted to go with better handling I also have a 2002 Buell M2 Cyclone which Harley Davidson also killed. I love my old Ironhead Sportster. The old Sportster can be a bit scary when the frame is flexing as you put it through the twisties. My riding ability is more than the Sportster can do. The Buell can perform better than my riding ability so it's much faster through the twisties. Slow ill handling torque is still more fun. I broke the frame twice on my Sportster and rebuilt the engine countless times but still it is my favorite.
about a 150hp 1340 in a cyclone or firebolt would be great.
I just read a story in which HD is embracing the Work From Home concept and is looking to "repurpose" its main headquarters building. All I can say is this: any job that can be done from home can be done from home in a low-wage country. Harley has ties in India and China, so when the axe falls don't say I didn't warn you.
I’ve been calling it Hardly Davidson for a while myself!
And that Uncle Tony is why I still have my 1998 XL1200S "Sport" model Sporty. I love to just stand there and admire those lovely lines.
Nothing else on Earth NEEDS the aftermarket as much as a Sportster. 😂
It's amazing how many people buy one, take it home and proceed to rip off 1/2 of the factory stuff and go aftermarket.
Like it's not even good enough to ride in stock form 😂
The aftermarket will miss the Sportster.
I have a 1976 Liberty Edition Harley Sportster xlh. It's pretty much my daily driver and my drag bike it runs like crazy and makes lots of power sounds great looks great I just love it
If Harley made an airplane, would you fly in it?
I won't even ride one of their motorcycles. Are you kidding, LMAO?!
There was a HD powered airplane and yes I would fly in it.
Hell yeah!
@jittychitty....not on my life!
My sportster flies.
I totally agree with you. However, EVERYONE HATED the FXR when it came out too. They all said Harley committed suicide when they introduced it. Now they're one of the hottest and most sought after Harley's. Yeah, the new "sportster" is hideous but maybe we should wait and see how it plays out.
At the end of the day it's an entry level bike and that's it people get them because they are cheap enough to finance then flip through the catalog or browse evil Bay and Amazon and "build it" the way they want. You get the Harley badge and an excuse to go out and buy a new wardrobe lol. 2021 was the last year for the Softail deluxe too. The iron seems to be selling quite a bit though.
Recently I was at Orlando Harley Davidson and a sales rep told me that the Sportster was discontinued because it could not meet the new 2023 emission standards.
I've had 6 Harleys over the years since 89. My first was an 86 1100 sportster. Should have kept it, they didn't make the 1100 very long, 2 years. But sportsters are too small, they are good for dirt bike conversions, but too small for me. Now I have a newer Softail I don't like. Going to sell it and get an old school AMF era road glide. Kept getting newer and newer bikes and now I want an old one.
AMF was the worst years for hd. The evolution years were the best. I've had good luck out of my 2013 flhx aka streetglide but anything newer it went to pure Chinese shit
@@davidroberts8410 That's the common thought, that the AMF years sucked .. but the reality is the bikes weren't bad, the manufacturing process was. They were rushed to make as many as possible as fast as possible. I have a few friends with AMF bikes.. once all the gaskets, motor mounts and carb are replaced they are great bikes. They have that early 70s charm. I will wait til I find a Road Glide. Nothing else looks like that.
You have a good idea, one of the many problems would be the emission certification, required for every variation. The cost would put them out of business. Good idea though.
Old sportster Iron was my favorite Harley. Had a few models, moved away from them after they became so Corporate. Kawasaki has been my favorite for awhile. I really love what they are doing lately too. EFI on the KLR, different models and bump up in cc's for KLX. And keeping the price the same!
Love the comparison to the Hemi! I've been saying that for years... Had a few arguments about who had it first too LOL 👍 I also have one of those first year Evos, an '86 883. Bought it for $1700 back in '16 for my wife. Not sure what's been done to it but that little bastard runs strong!
You don't buy a Harley because you want a "good motorcycle" period.
Picked up my first bike this summer. '02 sportster custom 1200 xl. Upgraded to stage 1 and I love it. So many custom things to do. Going to be a fun project next summer taking it to stage 2. Learning how to work on it myself has been part of the fun.
Could it be that Harley-Davidson is pulling a marketing scam on the public, ala New Coke? Perhaps they figure that we motorcycle consumers won't realize that we want the Sportster until we can't get it anymore. Three years or so from now, after hearing the "public outcry", they can reintroduce the XL to great fanfare and heightened sales. Hey, it could happen.
Not only possible, but likely. (Plot twist: Tony's even in on it all. Yes. "It could happen".)
I had an 883 Iron. LOVED IT!!!!! First v-twin. The torque is what made it fun!!!
You have the only Harley I would want to own right there. And totally agree with the video.
I would take pretty much any carbureted Harley with bright shiny paint and lots of chrome.
i have 3 Harleys and i love my 1988 XLH1200 i had it over 3 years and i'm still doing a lot to it..great video as always 👍
They have great suspension and great brakes handle great in the twisties. Excellent value . 👍🏻👍🏻
Love my 92 1200 xlh, but naa its not a handling stopping machine at all, rs250 is tho
Imagine if Harley had made an Evel Knievel replica street bike. And that would be cool even now, especially for commuters who like to ride wheelies to work. And Evel got the publicity for his jumps, of course, but he was incredible at wheelies, seated and standing on the saddle, when I saw him perform as the opening act at the NASCAR race at Ontario Motor Speedway in '71. Thanks, Evel, and thanks, Harley, for making that cool flat track bike.
Now, the aftermarket is really going to expand, for machines like this...
My only problem with my sportster is it doesn't have a sixth gear.
To be honest, 99% of people buy motorcycles because of how they look. And love makes people blind, meaning they do not care about the flaws of the Sportster. To bad the management does not have the same feel.
Bikes can't corner as hard as a car, but boy is it a blast to rip one thru a corner really hard.
Can't do that on a hog,I'll be ripping all kinds of stuff off when I do that 😄
Tony, you are one of the few that not only get the bike, but it's history of what it's supposed to be as competition to the British bikes. I have an '04 Roadster in the competition red (orange, lol) that's the cousin to your 883r. I have much better, but I just adore that bike and won't ever sell it. Agree that the new ones miss the mark of a retro standard for sure.
I love sportys. I have 4. One stock, 3 choppers, my father has a buell powered trike.
Harley can kiss my ass after this
It is a fun blank slate, the XL120CR, the Euro one is the best start. But the EU5 emissions killed it. His build by parts is a good idea. Mean time, my Z1000 is paid for. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
Harley Davidson is the quintessential mirror of most Americans, Fat, Loud and Slow.
When you build motorcycles two words you don't want to lose is compact and lightweight. Many Harley riders didn't understand the Sportster and I didn't understand their hogs.
I bought a new XLCH back in '79. That same year I got rear ended at a stop light one evening. My back hit the sissy bar and then I flew over the handlebars and rolled into the middle of the intersection. The bike was still upright with the rear fender sticking through his radiator.
So I took the insurance money and cut the frame at the rear over the oil tank, bent it down and had it welded, so a rigid style seat combination would fit on it, which provided a lot of lower back support. The fenders were bobbed, and a new round cylindrical shape oil tank was made for it. I gave it a cheap but OK looking black paint job, got an axed Harley tank, which was made from two Sportster tanks and had the gas cap on the right side, providing the much-needed gas range I wanted. Nice looking tank with a bit of a ridge in the center of the tank which tapered down to nothing at the rear.
This lowered the seat height a lot and it cornered much better. 4" over on the fork tubes and front pegs, and I had a nice-looking bobber. Nothing really wrong with that AMF bike. It never leaked oil and nothing ever vibrated loose like everyone said it was supposed to do. It always ran great.
Harley Davidson, pioneers of the "Winter Teardown"
Sorry to see this icon cancelled.
My friend had an 82.
That was the year for an all new frame with larger diameter tubes and all welded with a massive plate steel steering head. Yet it looked essentially the same theme as the original K model.
The bike was a dream to ride both straight and in the twisties.
Sounds like a bean counter decision.
It's an NWO decision. Discontinuation of parts as well means there will be less of them to try to track after shtf
I'd say you're 95% wrong. In the last 25 years people only buy Sportsters because they're the cheapest Harley you can buy.
I have a 2002 883 converted into a Hammer 1250. It is the best of the Sportsters. The one thing Harley SHOULD have done was add a real oil cooler to the basic bike. They could have passed emissions another 5 years with that one mod. But seriously, before axing the XL, Harley should have taken one more run at it with a re-issue of the original 1957 Sportster. HD could have easily dressed up a current model to emulate the original and it would be the biggest selling retro bike and an instant collectable. Just look up pictures of a 1957 Sportster and see for yourself. HD would not be able to build enough of them! (My bike) th-cam.com/video/7I3QNmwkkSA/w-d-xo.html
Have a 1971 XLCH, 900 . My Dad bought it in 1973 chopped it. Had to sell it in 1980, I found it as a basket case in 2004. The springer was gone put on a 14 over girder. Still changing things like my Dad did in the 70s.
Let's not forget the AMF years
Let’s not forget that even though they had serious quality control issues AMF saved Harley Davidson. Hell the evolution engine was designed during the AMF years.
Everyone used to know what AMF H-D meant back then 😆. My brother had a Buell years ago. Sounded great, shook like a paint mixer.
I'm sad there is no "love" button for this video. My sportster engine was Built by Tom Reiser. 1550 cc. 12.5/1 compression. Compression releases to start it. 155 hp. On an 883 frame. It's called the rocket ship. It's fatal flaw is breaking belts and throwing them backwards like a flying cobra. I "fixed" it by putting taller shocks from a T Sport on it. This also helped control the wheelies better
Like Ford trying to replace the mustang every 5 min. AKA the ford probe!
Hey, don't say bad stuff about the Probe. 2 of them ran great!
Hey!!!! the Probe I got for my was great...the body only oil canned a LITTLE!!!