Edit: Veezara protected Astrid from Cicero. Also, this is Dagoth Ur's divine opinion. Mine is different, I personally would give the Dark Brotherhood Questline a B in Skyrim, but I am a mere mortal in the shadow of Dagoth Ur. Check out the Podcast for my own opinions: th-cam.com/play/PLZScuW2uZm0mTP6VwtLkLNaMDM7xRHS4O.html Discord: discord.com/invite/3W35yN6Qe8 Patreon: www.patreon.com/zakeandzach Twitch: www.twitch.tv/zakeandzach Instagram: instagram.com/zakeandzach/
The real plot hole is why Bethesda keeps putting the Dark Brotherhood in their games when the Morag Tong, a proper Dunmer organization that honors the Sixth House and the Tribe Unmourned, only shows up once.
Actually, the Morag Tong have had a presence in both Oblivion and Skyrim, but only in DLC additions. Oblivion had a Morag Tong assassin appear in the "Unearthing Mehrunes Razor" Quest who is locked in a jail cell in the quest's dungeon. You can choose to free him, he'll skulk off to carry out his mission, to assassinate the Dunmer that is trying to find Mehrunes Razor. Personally, I kill him when I free him just to get his unique gear. The Morag Tong has a presence in Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC, where they've been hired by the remnants of House Hlaalu to get revenge on Chancellor Morvane for having one of their family executed. You go into a house, find proof of their being assassins and go into a fort filled with them.
@@meleefox3218Not to mention Teldrin Sero, who can be a follower and is implied to have been a Morag Tong member. (I probably spelled his name wrong.)
@@ozfifer7392if you do the thieves guild side missions enough, a dark elf joins the guild who says he used to be Morag Tong. He also mentions he’s trying to avoid detection from the Dark Brotherhood.
A plot hole I've always been annoyed by that no one ever seems to address deals with the fact that Delphine somehow managed to get her hand on the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller but the entire dungeon revolves around the fact that you need the ability to shout to even get through it. So much so that one of the doors requires that you have WHIRLWIND SPRINT in order to get through it. Also, nevermind how most of the enemies are still alive throughout the dungeon and she couldn't have gone through the back because that was hidden and sealed. This plot hole only really gets resolved if Delphine ALSO has the ability to shout, which isn't likely. Don't even get me started on the MASSIVE plot hole of her knowing that the Greybeards were sending us there in the first place because they're "predictable". Predictable how, Delphine? These clowns weren't born for the last Dragonborn! HOW COULD YOU HAVE GUESSED THEY'D SEND US TO GET THAT HORN!?
@highlordlaughterofcanada8685 That's the thing, no matter what speculation I came to, what she did would make zero sense because of too many factors, like how all the enemies are still alive, like how Delphine didn't get killed by the floor that spews fire, like how Delphine got past the gate that only stays open for as long as the stones are lit and those stones are only lit for a second-- Reminder this woman supposedly couldn't even get the damn Dragonstone in Bleak Falls (for whatever reason) yet we're expected to believe she KNEW where the Greybeards would send us, could GET THROUGH the shout-based puzzles and traps, grab the horn, ALL WITHOUT RUNNING INTO ANY ENEMIES
@@BlueOtakuDemon Sneaking is a skill and Blades had to sneak during spywork. It's actually pretty simple to figure out how she got in and out without killing. The player is capable of sneaking through entire dungeons in game, why can't she. As for the gate puzzle, all she had to do was activate each gate one at a time and temporarily jam them open, and that's the only shout related puzzle in the entire ruin. As for how she even guessed you would have been sent there? Remember that Ustengrav is where they send all their aspirants, not just the Dragonborn. She just has do research on the Greybeards and she'd could put two and two together. She used to be a spy, information gathering is something she'll be very good at. As well as getting into a location, getting what she is after and leaving without leaving a trace. To survive the Thalmor this long, she must be good at doing these things.
First time my dragonborn was kidnnaped I killed Astrid without second tought. The second time I hear the full dialogue, then I killed her again. I hate the Skyrim Dark Brotherhood quest.
What sucks the most is that they added a option to literally wipe out the dark brotherhood and it’s just one quest and you get just a few bits of gold for it. Like why add the option at all then ? I will say I do love the conspiracy theory that the emperor was the one who contracted the hit on himself to make himself a martyr which is honestly the only thing IMHO that slightly redeems the dark brotherhood in skyrim.
@@ForestX77 for my mental healt I explainig to my self that dark brotherhood and even deadric princes fall like peoples dont give a tham asrtid is a perfec examlpe she was just making her own policy an if not a cicero all of tradision of nigth moder and all would be forget like the power of them disaperd
Literally only did it for the 20,000 for killing the emperor... ...then I went and blew it on the dawnstar sanctuary...thinking I could recruit followers in the same vein as the blades. Delvin ripped me fucking off. I couldn't even spare the Uderfreykte
Allowing the Emperor to come to Solitude even if the Stormcloaks win kinda makes sense actually. Like I doubt they're wanting to further antagonize the Empire after just winning their independence. Letting the Emperor visit for a wedding is the least of their concerns right now and Ulfric isn't stupid. He even refuses to attack Solitude if the Emperor is there.
I love wiping the DB out, unless I'm specifically going down that path of the assassin, too bad you cant di the same in riften. Aslo I dont like to kill the emperor, that Voice of the N'wah greater ability really works and I don't want to do it.
I mean they technically aren’t the dark brotherhood they just stole they image and live off the reputation that they still exist. no black hand no brotherhood If you were the oblivion brotherhood they would be given rite of purification even if they were recognized
When Maro revealed that someone from the Brotherhood tipped him off to our assasination plot in return for leaving sanctuary alone, I was like: "Bruh, we killed his son and dragged his reputation through mud! Who was dumb enough to think he would let it slide?" - and then when Astrid confessed, I was like: "Figures. From blocking me to go to Amaund, to go full 'this is all thanks to you, my Listener', I was already suspicious.' She would never willingly relinquish her power to some newbie. Or anyone. She made that crystal clear."
Yes, but at the same time it's lazy to explain everything as "She's just stupid." The Dragonborn is less of a threat to her than Maro, who has a personal and political vendetta against her with the backing of the Empire.
By his leather jacket, Trogg Howard has long since given up on honoring the Sixth House and the Tribe unmourned. May Lord Dagoth be in our hearts till his Divinity is recognized by all in these forsaken lands.
09:31 had me wheezing🤣 Side note: if you do the Spiced Wine quest in Solitude, before interacting with Vittoria, she says something like "everyone says I'm lucky to have the emperor for a cousin but he sent word that he won't make it for my wedding. he'll only come for my funeral to save face" and that's why you have no option but to kill her to get him to come to Solitude.
Whilst Lord Dagoth-Ur's word is law, at least Skyrim isn't as choppy as Starfield, Starfield is a glorified fetch quest. Not even a mention of the Sixth House or the Tribe Unmourned in that game, pitiful.
The thing that annoyed me the most is without the night mother any black sacrament goes unheard yet their active. I wouldn't mind if you saw the rest of the DB around the cities the same way you can spot Deacon from Fallout 4 before meeting the Railroad. The fact that Aventius can be in his house calling the sacrament for months if my Dragonborn doesn't want to get involved and no one hears about it means most contracts are going unanswered BUT! as soon as I kill Grelod Astrid knows about it and can break into wherever I chose to sleep and drag me back to her shack. Astrid, send your dumbass guild out of the cave and have and agent in each city collecting rumors. It would be way more immersive and cool to see them in plain clothes around towns or maybe even stumble into seeing them mid assassination. But no, they all need to be in the cave so they can play out that cringe sitcom skit. "Would the sweetie like a sweetie?!" *everyone dies of laughter except me, I died of cringe* is this truly how Emil Pagzajoilo honors the 6th house and Tribe Unmourned.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that Skyrim's DB wasn't actually answering the Black Sacrament. They were, instead, just functioning like any other assassins' guild, contacted by usual means. Not that it excuses Emil Pagliacci's bad writing, of course. Also, guards and innkeepers seem to know that Aventus is doing the Black Sacrament.
@@Digger_TN When asking Astrid at the start of the DB quest she says something along the lines of "People who want us use the Black Sacrament to try and contact us, normally the listener would hear their call and dispatch a speaker to arrange the contract but that was years ago and people don't know we don't have a listener anymore so when people want us we eventually hear about it" This makes Astrid seem extra incompetent because you are 1000% correct when Innkeepers and city guards know the Aventius boy has been crying out to the DB for who knows how long and Astrid doesn't act on the opportunity to take a new contract. What also makes this worse is when you need to sell that council jewel Astrid reveals that she has ties to the Thieves Guild! Why is she not paying Delvin to collect rumors of assassinations around Riften? Sure Aventus is in Windhelm doing the Sacrament but all the other orphans knew he was going to try to contact the DB. When you kill Grelod they all go "No way Aventus actually contacted the DB!" and Maven's enforcer Maul also knows that Aventus wanted to kill her through the DB. The Grelod hit was common knowledge to the people of Riften and Windhelm and Astrid's intelligence network is too incompetent to pick it up.
@@admiralalyssa Either that or she did know about it but decided it wasn't worth it since Arentino has no money and the heirloom he gives you is worthless
@@whensomethingcriesagain That is possible but wouldn't Astrid still need to send a speaker to see what Aventius had to offer? We know his heirloom is worthless as game knowledge but from a worldbuilding perspective, Astrid has no idea if he has some secret chest of gold hidden by his parents or if his mom has some jewelry of worth. Maybe after a month of in-game time, you talk to the boy and he tells you the dark brotherhood came and declined the hit but he still wants someone to kill Grelod and the Dragonborn can help or refuse the contract.
I'll be honest, there should be a video detailing the plot holes of the Dragonborn DLC. Would it not make more sense for Miraak to join forces with the Dragonborn to defeat old Hema Mora? Would the Dragonborn really turn down an ally so powerful, with literal lifetimes of knowledge prescient to only a Dragonborn? Why not break the chains of the Daedra and the Divine to become your own divinity? This is without mentioning why Neloth would even help the Dragonborn? What actual incentive does Neloth have as a several thousand year old Telvanni Wizard? Then there is some Dawnguard content, (if I'm not mistaken) where you traipse around dwemer ruins to get Aetherium and make something from it. If the Aetherium was so important to the dwarves, why was it never mentioned in any previous titles? Why is there not more items made of Aetherium just out in the world waiting to be found? Not even mentioning the fact that the dwemer are long gone but somehow, people can still forge equipment made of dwemer metals and it still has the same quality and look if forged yesterday as it does when you find a supposed "ancient" relic in the ruins that was made by the actual dwemer while they were still around. This is also another gripe I have with the whole Elder Scrolls as a whole, why does the "fantasy" equipment have to be so impractical? Sure, spikey bits on a daedric weapon are cool, but good luck actually hitting anything without hurting yourself in the process, the same goes with armor. Not only the quests have plot holes, but the entire design ethos has plot holes for pretty much anything in the game. I was also promised a sims emulator in Skyrim via the Heathfire DLC. Why can I not actually place the furniture where I want and why do I have to adopt some random kid as the Dragonborn? Is the Dragonborn infertile? If so, then how was there an entire line of "Dragonborn" Emperors? Why was our Dragonborn not vying for the Imperial Throne? Why does Emil have us do a 180 on Brothurnax, just because he is a dragon and not have the option to tell Delphine and Esbern to pound that Hammerfell sand because they are supposed to follow your orders, noth the other way around? Man, ain't design documents just a bitch when the fans hold you (not Dagoth and friends, but Bethesduh) accountable? Thank you for coming to my Hrothgar Talk and tasting of my voice.
My Dragonborn is a Dunmer. I always picked Dunmer, even before I heard of Lord Dagoth. Oblivion? Dunmer. Skyrim? Dunmer. Blades (for the few minutes I played it)? Dunmer. Then finally Morrowind. Damned right I'm picking Dunmer again for that masterpiece. A nord or imperial Nerevarine just wouldn't feel right.
@@ZakeandZachI have ESO, but I can't play it without buying an XBOX Live Gold Membership for online play. But if I did have that, I'd still pick Dunmer.
The worst crime the writer did with the Dark Brotherhood is not allow us to marry Gabriella. How can you have someone as beautiful and sophisticated as Gabriella and not have her as marriage partner option? What a grand and intoxicating innocence! How could the writer be so naive?
There are also theories that the DRAGONBORN himself is the contract. And considering that you can be attacked by a Dark Brotherhood Assassin immediately after Helgen it is possible. And the assassin will have a letter on him stating that the Dragonborn, By Name has a contact on him. This means there is a contract on the Dragonborn before the game even starts. And the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood is a masterwork of joy and fun. Best Dark Brotherhood questline ever. And what are you talking about? Cicero DOES attack Astrid. When you catch him at the other sanctuary he even says "I attacked the strumpet Astrid I did, and I'd do it again. Anything for our mother." Get your lore in order before you attack the story. It has become fashionable to attack Emil these days but I think Mob mentality is beginning to set in. It's group think gone mad. People are talking shit without even doing their own research or even knowing what they are really talking about. I suggest anyone who wants to attack Emil first watch the video about all this Emil hate done recently by NeverKnowsBest. I don't really care about Emil or what people think about him but I do get aggravated every time I see a video get posted criticizing something and then within the next few weeks after that you see dozens of youtubers dog pile on top and spew the same negativity for the sake of VIEWS! Puking opinions that are not even their own making videos on topics that they never even considered making before it became the hot topic of the moment.
"There's a conspiracy against the Emperor by the local Dark Brotherhood group what should we do!" - The Emperor's elite bodyguards "lol idk lets stay here and put him and ourselves at risk instead of heading back to Cyrodill" - Idiot leader of the Penitus Oculatus who would rather get revenge for his son over making sure the FUCKING EMPEROR is safe.
tbf, they thought they were all eradicated at that point. motierre says so when talking to him in whiterun, and if you talk to maro before you kill him, he's surprised you're still alive
The only point I disagree with is how Astrid gets to be leader: she pretty much kept mostly people loyal to her as members, and she uses her cuckold husband to strongarm everyone into submission.
The real problem with Bethesda is that they make games for Todd, not for the fans. Bethesda is the rich kids mom who sells the poor family her sons used toys, chips and all at full price, and expects to be praised for even letting us play with the rich kids toys in the first place.
It is funny to me that these Dagoth Ur meme videos, sermons, etc. Made me get the Morrowind Game on steam and even tho i am a Skyrim fanboy, i greatly enjoy Morrowind. Oh and obviously my first Morrowind charackter is obviously a Dunmer, just to honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned.
The Dark Brotherhood was never a faction that interested me in either Oblivion or Skyrim, but I know my older brother completed it in Skyrim so I knew the gist of all that happened, but to actually be told about it in a more clear manner (many thanks to you for that Zake, Zach, and Dagoth) makes me glad I never bothered with their quest in Skyrim and infact would probably just wipe them out now if there wasn't anything worthwhile to get from actually joining it, heck Shadowmere, the only reward from the DB questline I currently know of, would have been a tempting reason, but then with Dawnguard added you get a horse you can literally summon wherever whenever from completing it making Shadowmere far less valuable, it's still cool looking, but now that's nearly all it has going for it..
Funny thing about Astrid kidnapping us? She can do so even on Solstheim. That just adds another layer of madness to her dragging a likely walking tank to the middle of nowhere.
Lord Dagoth, you now have a new N'wah follower ... he diligently writes on the parchmint as your divine self instructed and have been a fervent listener of your sermons for a while now ... praise he who preaches the sixth house and the tribe unmourned and bow to his will! Content is simply captivating 👍🏻
If only there was a Sixth House faction you could join. Perhaps Vhardenfell could be ruled by Sixth House worship, so the Dragonborn could worship a true God, Dagoth Ur.
About the Grelond the Kind contract. My theory is that Astrid was secretly watching and getting her sick jollies as the boy was suffering and trying to get Dark Sacrament going. It's also how she knew the Dragonborn was involved. Also Cicero went crae-crae when he was bruried under a collapsed Brotherhood bulding that was attcked and razed by the Empire a few decades before the events of the game.
Cicero went crazy because no matter what he did, the Night Mother wouldn't speak to him despite caring for her as her Keeper. He eventually adopts the Jester gimic after being ordered to kill one, for one last contract, as a mental defense mechanism to cope with the Night Mother's constant silence as time passed, creating the Cicero we know and are annoyed by. It's written in his damn journals so I can't understand why people always get this wrong.
@@highlordlaughterofcanada8685 I've read the journals, and I personally agree. However, from another angle, he would still not abandon the Night Mother.
It just feels wrong playing the DB and thieves guild questlines after playing the ones from Oblivions, like i get it in Skyrim it's supposed to be the "dark ages" of Tamriel but my lord both of them feel so flanderized compared with what we had Dark brotherhood doesn't follow the 5 tenets and doesn't feel like a cult of assassins, Thieves guild doesn't even care about the poor and works for Maven out of all people
Pretty sure Astrid is straight up lying to you and all three of them are innocent, the whole contract ruse is just there to give you a pretext to kill one of them
@@highlordlaughterofcanada8685I was certain he was guilty as Farmtools usually are of any crime but I also killed the other 2 just out of the principle of ensuring no one tells the Mongrel Dogs of the Empire about how my Modded level 5000 dragon born got kidnapped by a girlboss who needs to wait for half of Tamriel gossiping about how a kid is doing the black sacrament before starting a contract.
My very first playthrough, my son speedran me through the Civil War and I was a Stormcloak. I asked the very question at the moment: Why did the Emporer show up to Stormcloak controled Solitude??? Also his distant cousin got assassinated? That's a Tuesday. Why would he care?
Please have Dagoth give his opinion on the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood quest line and lore changes. I want to hear how terribly Emil dishonored the sixth house.
"Was Astrid just intended to be an idiot" I mean, she literally defied the god of her little murder cult and thought that was going to end well for her. She expected a man whose son she ordered killed (and whose job description included hunting down her murder cult) to let bygones be bygones and just sort of leave the rest of the dark brotherhood alone if they gave him the one who personally killed said son and pinky promised to stop trying to kill the emperor. I am pretty sure she was indeed intended to be a total idiot so as to justify the PC taking her job as faction head. Edit: Also, technically she was indeed asking you for the sweet release of the void when she used the black sacrament to put a hit out on herself.
@@ZakeandZach I can understand the viewpoint that it was too much. But given how tumultuous things have been in Skyrim lately, I could see an idiot like Astrid managing to fall into the cracks by sheer luck after she became head of the Skyrim chapter of the Brotherhood. Both sides of the civil war just had way bigger fish to fry then the pathetic backwater remnants of the Dark Brotherhood's sole surviving chapter so they stayed afloat despite Astrid being an idiot. Then they took a swing at the emperor, became a priority problem to be solved, and pretty quickly went up in flames under her leadership pretty much the instant resources were put into wiping them out.
Something "funny" about the quest where you kill Commander Maro's son is that he will at one point pass through multiple Stormcloak-occupied cities (assuming you haven't completed the Civil War questline by siding with the empire yet). So you can kill the son of an influential Imperial military officer in a Stormcloak city and... It has absolutely _no_ effect on the rest of the story. The Stormcloaks don't get blamed for the murder, this doesn't give you any unique dialogue even. It's just inconsequential. As if he just dropped dead and just ceased to exist, disappearing from memory entirely.
10:14 "Elisif would be joining Torygg in Sovngarde..." wait Lord Dagoth, I though that N'wah afterlife of Sovngarde accepts only valiant into their ranks. Are you trying to say that mongrel-she-dog Elisif, licking boots of both mongrel-dogs of the Empire and mongrel-dogs of the Thalmor, is valiant? That's an oxymoron!
yeah when you really think about it, why do they need to hide who the contract was? Wouldn't it be even more damning proof that you're willing to do her bidding if they provided you with a single victim who has a chance to try and defend themselves and makes a solid case that they're actually innocent, but you're told to kill them anyways?
What I don’t get is how Maro knew where the brotherhood sanctuary is, what the password was, and why they wait so long to actually do anything about them. Even if we go with “they weren’t a threat until they began trying to assassinate the emperor”, there was plenty of time after the db assassinated both the emperor’s cousin (along with a very obvious brotherhood member there) and Maro’s son to consider them a potential threat. Instead they waited until the db got close enough to assassinate the emperor himself (and may have only failed because Astrid warned them). Can’t even say Maro found out because of Astrid’s betrayal, because Maro sends you to kill the rest of the brotherhood if you kill Astrid in that cabin. As a random thought, how much better would it have been if they attacked sooner such as when the db was busy finding Cicero? With the db returning while it was happening to save the day like the original plot. Maybe even throw in a subplot about rooting out whoever told Maro where to find the sanctuary.
Lord dagoth ur forgive me for I have recently finished the main quest of morrowind the azura mommy huggies and nix hound nuggies were to tempting, I am not worthy of your mercy
Elder Scrolls lore, storylines and quest writing took a hit when Micael Kirkbride left BGS. As for the hack Emil, when he said we don't know what it takes to develop games and to basically STFU, that doesn't nagate my opinion. I don't need to be a chef to know the awful plater you just served me tasted like shit....
Damn right we don't need to be chefs. What's extra stupid though is he acts like writers in general can't give feedback because "Videogame different!" too. Bruh, it's not that different to a novel.
Is it me or does Lord Dagoth sound extra... snarky this sermon. Perhaps these plotholes dishonor the Sixth House and the Tribe Unmourned too much for even a god to remain completely cool-headed, especially if that intervention break was any indication.
My counter point is that you're never intended to be the dragonborn during side quests, only in the main questline and Dragonborn DLC. Dawnguard is just confusing if you're dragonborn or not because of the implications of your soul and blood. Sure the undead dragon bro will acknowledge you as dragonborn if you've slain Alduin beforehand, but that doesn't quite explain how Serana was able to partially soul trap you, the reason the dragon was cursed with undeath was because his soul couldn't be claimed by the Ideal Masters, which means yours can't be either, or at least, it shouldn't be possible, and if you chose to be a vampire, that would imply that Molag has claim on your soul, which wouldn't be possible for a dragonborn because Akatosh still gets first dibs on a dragon soul, and no daedra screws with Akatosh. Kind of funny how when trying to explain a plot hole I ended up bringing up more anyway, gotta love Elder Scrolls
To be fair, none of the faction quests are guaranteed to be canonically completed by the Dragonborn. I think the rule of thumb is ‘player character definitely completed the main quests of each game and each dlc. But it’s questionable whether they complete the faction quests or not’ These quests do happen still, but if you don’t do them, canonically someone else does
In the shack only the dragonborn had a contract as you can be attempted assasinated from the start of the game. Dragonborn was most likely caught leaving skyrim because of this contract. Astrid has you kill an innocence not for any reasons given but because when a contracted person kills an innocent person they may be allowed in to the brotherhood. A npc from oblivian explains this happening to themselves in the brotherhood in that game. Tldr you had the cont4act and kill8ng a random person was to allow you to remove your contract and 3nter the brotherhood and not a test in the way its commonly seen
Emil Pagliatelle is a very underrated creative. His writing is so far ahead that most people lack the mental capacity to really appreciate it. Maybe when TES6 releases, people will finally understand the pure genius of his K.I.S.S principle.
kiss shouldnt apply to literally everything otherwise nothing is complex including your stories which is a dumb idea. sure you can apply it to coding practises so that its easier to read and maintain or work habits, but narrative stories and deep lore should specifically be complex otherwise its not interesting...
I thank lord Dagoth Ur for exposing this cheap knockoff of assassins. And I can't wait for him to roast the entire College of Winterhold! Especially the fact that literally no one do a damn thing or a magic lesson properly (aside that one in the beginning, but that was more like of an introduction rather then proper lesson)! Yay!
Stealth is for Elf cowards a REAL NORD charges his enemies with a great axe! I was a battle mage in my first ever serous play through. Full ebon mail with conjured weapons and spell breaker. Switched to great sword spell after one handed was 100 for Dawnbreaker for undead killing
It seems to me that Astrid loved the power to decide who live and who died. If she was the one who confirmed the Black Sacrament then the arrival of The Night Mother would take her place in handing out assignments, and thus would be a challenge to Astrid. Mind you, this was never stated in the script. So if it is true then Emil Pandabear has another fail to his discredit.
I had some time off to play Oblivion recently, but when I heard Emil talking about the dark brotherhood writing, I didn't even install it. He fucking wrecked everything.
What I don’t get is how the brotherhood functions and stays in business. Like so you have preform the black sacrament for the nightmother to hear your job, then she passed it to the listener, the listener passes it to one of the four speakers, then one of those speakers pass it to one of the brotherhood sanctuary’s leaders, then the sanctuary’s leader then gives it to one of the assassins to fulfill. You are really telling me that jobs comes from one person for who then passes it and passes it along to a assassin in ONE OF THE 9 OF THE 10 PROVENANCES IN ALL OF TAMRIEL ! Sorry no that is highly insufficient to have all your job come through one person only after someone preforms a ritual and if they still take contracts from a regular means like being hired directly then why go through the black sacrament at all. If the black sacrament is the only means of hiring the dark brotherhood then they shouldn’t be as big or as lucrative as they are, and if you can just hire them directly then why do the spooky ritual at all. What do they do both and those who do the black sacrament get priority or something?
They need the money? Plus, those who want revenge for a death can get a body to do the sacrament for free like the aventus kid that didn't want to go to the orphanage from Annie the musical, although I don't think his mother was murdered, just dead.
I despise Emil, this pathetic n'wah continues to glorify this band of psychotic murderers when the Marog Tong exists. In my opinion, the canon path is the Dragonborn killing Astrid. He cannot even read and would immediately lash out if he was kidnapped.
i disagree with a couple of these plot holes 1) astrid is written to be an idiot and a fool. she says as much while dying when talking about how she shouldn't have trusted maro or the PO, and how she shouldn't have opposed the old ways of the DB. 2) cicero tried and failed to murder everyone in the sanctuary and had to flee ASAP. he barely made it out with his own life, let alone a giant metal coffin. 3) yes, titus mede ii wanted to die. he knows he's hated because he signed the concordat, and knows that as long as he lives he won't be able to unite the empire against the dominion for the next great war. he hopes his death will allow for a new emperor to take the throne and do just that. that's why he lets you kill him. the real plot hole is how arnbjorn made it back to the other side of skyrim when bleeding out in dawnstar lmao. that plot hole does not honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned.
Another plot hole is the complete absence of the blades in doing anything to prevent the emperor from being assassinated. Delphine should at least be aware of the plot.
I always play a Dunmer in TES games and had her destroy the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim like any proud Dunmer would. I mean, just out of respect for the Morag Tong, of course.
My opinion on skyrim is the whole story plot line was dog water but still put in over thousand hours in the game cause I more found love in exploring the world ... ofc nodded. There is no reason to play the game in vanilla form
Skyrim dark brotherhood is place of good assasins but aatrid and his husband are ultimate morons we have a vampire eternal kid farm tool raised to be asasin and sasy redgard the rest I only remeber a reject from that magic school
Finally, Dagoth Ur in his infinite wisdom has corroborated something that I felt was almost unbearably bad about the skyrim dark brotherhood. If anything, it simply proves Sithis is a false God who does not honor the Sixth House and the tribe unmourned and same goes for the N'wah who wrote his dumbass tamrielic representation in the form of the shart dookiehood.
True words Lord Dagoth. Can't wait for them to return again in the 6th main line game, instead of a unique equivalent of assassins from the region. 😅 Just copy and paste most guilds in TES 6. 🙃
Edit: Veezara protected Astrid from Cicero.
Also, this is Dagoth Ur's divine opinion. Mine is different, I personally would give the Dark Brotherhood Questline a B in Skyrim, but I am a mere mortal in the shadow of Dagoth Ur. Check out the Podcast for my own opinions: th-cam.com/play/PLZScuW2uZm0mTP6VwtLkLNaMDM7xRHS4O.html
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The real plot hole is why Bethesda keeps putting the Dark Brotherhood in their games when the Morag Tong, a proper Dunmer organization that honors the Sixth House and the Tribe Unmourned, only shows up once.
Actually, the Morag Tong have had a presence in both Oblivion and Skyrim, but only in DLC additions. Oblivion had a Morag Tong assassin appear in the "Unearthing Mehrunes Razor" Quest who is locked in a jail cell in the quest's dungeon. You can choose to free him, he'll skulk off to carry out his mission, to assassinate the Dunmer that is trying to find Mehrunes Razor. Personally, I kill him when I free him just to get his unique gear.
The Morag Tong has a presence in Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC, where they've been hired by the remnants of House Hlaalu to get revenge on Chancellor Morvane for having one of their family executed. You go into a house, find proof of their being assassins and go into a fort filled with them.
This is all true.
@@meleefox3218Not to mention Teldrin Sero, who can be a follower and is implied to have been a Morag Tong member. (I probably spelled his name wrong.)
@@ozfifer7392if you do the thieves guild side missions enough, a dark elf joins the guild who says he used to be Morag Tong. He also mentions he’s trying to avoid detection from the Dark Brotherhood.
@fireblast133 Neat, did not know that, I usually slack on the Thieves Guild missions.
A plot hole I've always been annoyed by that no one ever seems to address deals with the fact that Delphine somehow managed to get her hand on the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller but the entire dungeon revolves around the fact that you need the ability to shout to even get through it. So much so that one of the doors requires that you have WHIRLWIND SPRINT in order to get through it.
Also, nevermind how most of the enemies are still alive throughout the dungeon and she couldn't have gone through the back because that was hidden and sealed. This plot hole only really gets resolved if Delphine ALSO has the ability to shout, which isn't likely. Don't even get me started on the MASSIVE plot hole of her knowing that the Greybeards were sending us there in the first place because they're "predictable". Predictable how, Delphine? These clowns weren't born for the last Dragonborn! HOW COULD YOU HAVE GUESSED THEY'D SEND US TO GET THAT HORN!?
I, tragically, brute forced the dungeon without shouting. This does not excuse Delphine, however.
Yeah this always bugged me too. I always figured she just found a way to jam the gates temporarily, but that's just speculation on my part
@highlordlaughterofcanada8685 That's the thing, no matter what speculation I came to, what she did would make zero sense because of too many factors, like how all the enemies are still alive, like how Delphine didn't get killed by the floor that spews fire, like how Delphine got past the gate that only stays open for as long as the stones are lit and those stones are only lit for a second--
Reminder this woman supposedly couldn't even get the damn Dragonstone in Bleak Falls (for whatever reason) yet we're expected to believe she KNEW where the Greybeards would send us, could GET THROUGH the shout-based puzzles and traps, grab the horn, ALL WITHOUT RUNNING INTO ANY ENEMIES
@@BlueOtakuDemon Sneaking is a skill and Blades had to sneak during spywork. It's actually pretty simple to figure out how she got in and out without killing. The player is capable of sneaking through entire dungeons in game, why can't she. As for the gate puzzle, all she had to do was activate each gate one at a time and temporarily jam them open, and that's the only shout related puzzle in the entire ruin. As for how she even guessed you would have been sent there? Remember that Ustengrav is where they send all their aspirants, not just the Dragonborn. She just has do research on the Greybeards and she'd could put two and two together. She used to be a spy, information gathering is something she'll be very good at. As well as getting into a location, getting what she is after and leaving without leaving a trace. To survive the Thalmor this long, she must be good at doing these things.
like all they had to do was like put a rope above where the horn is, and imply she bypassed it by climbing in from the ceiling.
First time my dragonborn was kidnnaped I killed Astrid without second tought. The second time I hear the full dialogue, then I killed her again.
I hate the Skyrim Dark Brotherhood quest.
she said you had to only kill one.. she's one... they're three.. ? it's the most sensible choice if you ask me :)
What sucks the most is that they added a option to literally wipe out the dark brotherhood and it’s just one quest and you get just a few bits of gold for it. Like why add the option at all then ?
I will say I do love the conspiracy theory that the emperor was the one who contracted the hit on himself to make himself a martyr which is honestly the only thing IMHO that slightly redeems the dark brotherhood in skyrim.
@@ForestX77 for my mental healt I explainig to my self that dark brotherhood and even deadric princes fall like peoples dont give a tham asrtid is a perfec examlpe she was just making her own policy an if not a cicero all of tradision of nigth moder and all would be forget like the power of them disaperd
Literally only did it for the 20,000 for killing the emperor...
...then I went and blew it on the dawnstar sanctuary...thinking I could recruit followers in the same vein as the blades.
Delvin ripped me fucking off. I couldn't even spare the Uderfreykte
Chad Lucian Lachance:
*Waits for you to wake up
*Compliments your sleep
*"Here you go my knife go kill Raper"
*Leaves in invis"
I actually yelled at my screen when I got back to Applewatch too late.
Allowing the Emperor to come to Solitude even if the Stormcloaks win kinda makes sense actually. Like I doubt they're wanting to further antagonize the Empire after just winning their independence. Letting the Emperor visit for a wedding is the least of their concerns right now and Ulfric isn't stupid. He even refuses to attack Solitude if the Emperor is there.
For me, the canon path is the one where the Dragonborn kills the Dark Brotherhood. Makes more sense than the rest of the quest line.
I love wiping the DB out, unless I'm specifically going down that path of the assassin, too bad you cant di the same in riften. Aslo I dont like to kill the emperor, that Voice of the N'wah greater ability really works and I don't want to do it.
I mean they technically aren’t the dark brotherhood they just stole they image and live off the reputation that they still exist.
no black hand no brotherhood
If you were the oblivion brotherhood they would be given rite of purification even if they were recognized
When Maro revealed that someone from the Brotherhood tipped him off to our assasination plot in return for leaving sanctuary alone, I was like: "Bruh, we killed his son and dragged his reputation through mud! Who was dumb enough to think he would let it slide?" - and then when Astrid confessed, I was like: "Figures. From blocking me to go to Amaund, to go full 'this is all thanks to you, my Listener', I was already suspicious.' She would never willingly relinquish her power to some newbie. Or anyone. She made that crystal clear."
Yes, but at the same time it's lazy to explain everything as "She's just stupid." The Dragonborn is less of a threat to her than Maro, who has a personal and political vendetta against her with the backing of the Empire.
Minor correction on Cicero wounding the Argonian. He actually tried to kill Astred but Venzera got in the way.
Oh true.
3:45 so you never used the clairvoyance spell when picking your victim? What a grand and intoxicating innocence!
By his leather jacket, Trogg Howard has long since given up on honoring the Sixth House and the Tribe unmourned.
May Lord Dagoth be in our hearts till his Divinity is recognized by all in these forsaken lands.
09:31 had me wheezing🤣 Side note: if you do the Spiced Wine quest in Solitude, before interacting with Vittoria, she says something like "everyone says I'm lucky to have the emperor for a cousin but he sent word that he won't make it for my wedding. he'll only come for my funeral to save face" and that's why you have no option but to kill her to get him to come to Solitude.
Whilst Lord Dagoth-Ur's word is law, at least Skyrim isn't as choppy as Starfield, Starfield is a glorified fetch quest.
Not even a mention of the Sixth House or the Tribe Unmourned in that game, pitiful.
Wrong... starfield is a loading screen simulator
The thing that annoyed me the most is without the night mother any black sacrament goes unheard yet their active. I wouldn't mind if you saw the rest of the DB around the cities the same way you can spot Deacon from Fallout 4 before meeting the Railroad. The fact that Aventius can be in his house calling the sacrament for months if my Dragonborn doesn't want to get involved and no one hears about it means most contracts are going unanswered BUT! as soon as I kill Grelod Astrid knows about it and can break into wherever I chose to sleep and drag me back to her shack.
Astrid, send your dumbass guild out of the cave and have and agent in each city collecting rumors. It would be way more immersive and cool to see them in plain clothes around towns or maybe even stumble into seeing them mid assassination. But no, they all need to be in the cave so they can play out that cringe sitcom skit. "Would the sweetie like a sweetie?!" *everyone dies of laughter except me, I died of cringe* is this truly how Emil Pagzajoilo honors the 6th house and Tribe Unmourned.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that Skyrim's DB wasn't actually answering the Black Sacrament. They were, instead, just functioning like any other assassins' guild, contacted by usual means.
Not that it excuses Emil Pagliacci's bad writing, of course.
Also, guards and innkeepers seem to know that Aventus is doing the Black Sacrament.
@@Digger_TN When asking Astrid at the start of the DB quest she says something along the lines of "People who want us use the Black Sacrament to try and contact us, normally the listener would hear their call and dispatch a speaker to arrange the contract but that was years ago and people don't know we don't have a listener anymore so when people want us we eventually hear about it"
This makes Astrid seem extra incompetent because you are 1000% correct when Innkeepers and city guards know the Aventius boy has been crying out to the DB for who knows how long and Astrid doesn't act on the opportunity to take a new contract. What also makes this worse is when you need to sell that council jewel Astrid reveals that she has ties to the Thieves Guild! Why is she not paying Delvin to collect rumors of assassinations around Riften? Sure Aventus is in Windhelm doing the Sacrament but all the other orphans knew he was going to try to contact the DB. When you kill Grelod they all go "No way Aventus actually contacted the DB!" and Maven's enforcer Maul also knows that Aventus wanted to kill her through the DB.
The Grelod hit was common knowledge to the people of Riften and Windhelm and Astrid's intelligence network is too incompetent to pick it up.
@@admiralalyssa Either that or she did know about it but decided it wasn't worth it since Arentino has no money and the heirloom he gives you is worthless
@@whensomethingcriesagain That is possible but wouldn't Astrid still need to send a speaker to see what Aventius had to offer? We know his heirloom is worthless as game knowledge but from a worldbuilding perspective, Astrid has no idea if he has some secret chest of gold hidden by his parents or if his mom has some jewelry of worth. Maybe after a month of in-game time, you talk to the boy and he tells you the dark brotherhood came and declined the hit but he still wants someone to kill Grelod and the Dragonborn can help or refuse the contract.
Emil is finally getting dog-piled by the community and I am LOVING it.
By Dagoth 🤣
I read "dog-pilled". Thanks for the disturbing image.
@@Digger_TN based and dog-pilled lol
Emil should be relegated to farmtool status, by Dagoth !
I'll be honest, there should be a video detailing the plot holes of the Dragonborn DLC. Would it not make more sense for Miraak to join forces with the Dragonborn to defeat old Hema Mora? Would the Dragonborn really turn down an ally so powerful, with literal lifetimes of knowledge prescient to only a Dragonborn? Why not break the chains of the Daedra and the Divine to become your own divinity? This is without mentioning why Neloth would even help the Dragonborn? What actual incentive does Neloth have as a several thousand year old Telvanni Wizard?
Then there is some Dawnguard content, (if I'm not mistaken) where you traipse around dwemer ruins to get Aetherium and make something from it. If the Aetherium was so important to the dwarves, why was it never mentioned in any previous titles? Why is there not more items made of Aetherium just out in the world waiting to be found? Not even mentioning the fact that the dwemer are long gone but somehow, people can still forge equipment made of dwemer metals and it still has the same quality and look if forged yesterday as it does when you find a supposed "ancient" relic in the ruins that was made by the actual dwemer while they were still around.
This is also another gripe I have with the whole Elder Scrolls as a whole, why does the "fantasy" equipment have to be so impractical? Sure, spikey bits on a daedric weapon are cool, but good luck actually hitting anything without hurting yourself in the process, the same goes with armor.
Not only the quests have plot holes, but the entire design ethos has plot holes for pretty much anything in the game.
I was also promised a sims emulator in Skyrim via the Heathfire DLC. Why can I not actually place the furniture where I want and why do I have to adopt some random kid as the Dragonborn? Is the Dragonborn infertile? If so, then how was there an entire line of "Dragonborn" Emperors? Why was our Dragonborn not vying for the Imperial Throne? Why does Emil have us do a 180 on Brothurnax, just because he is a dragon and not have the option to tell Delphine and Esbern to pound that Hammerfell sand because they are supposed to follow your orders, noth the other way around?
Man, ain't design documents just a bitch when the fans hold you (not Dagoth and friends, but Bethesduh) accountable?
Thank you for coming to my Hrothgar Talk and tasting of my voice.
Those are planned!
I can't wait to hear about Lord Dagoth Ur's opinion on the Dark Brotherhood quest line in Oblivion.
I can't imagine the amount of suffering it takes to go through all of Emil's plot holes and then make a video about it.
7:18 i think cicero himself says that "the lizard got in the way" so he was trying to attack her
My Dragonborn is a Dunmer. I always picked Dunmer, even before I heard of Lord Dagoth.
Oblivion? Dunmer.
Skyrim? Dunmer.
Blades (for the few minutes I played it)? Dunmer.
Then finally Morrowind. Damned right I'm picking Dunmer again for that masterpiece. A nord or imperial Nerevarine just wouldn't feel right.
Online?
@@ZakeandZachI have ESO, but I can't play it without buying an XBOX Live Gold Membership for online play. But if I did have that, I'd still pick Dunmer.
The worst crime the writer did with the Dark Brotherhood is not allow us to marry Gabriella. How can you have someone as beautiful and sophisticated as Gabriella and not have her as marriage partner option? What a grand and intoxicating innocence! How could the writer be so naive?
There are also theories that the DRAGONBORN himself is the contract. And considering that you can be attacked by a Dark Brotherhood Assassin immediately after Helgen it is possible. And the assassin will have a letter on him stating that the Dragonborn, By Name has a contact on him. This means there is a contract on the Dragonborn before the game even starts. And the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood is a masterwork of joy and fun. Best Dark Brotherhood questline ever. And what are you talking about? Cicero DOES attack Astrid. When you catch him at the other sanctuary he even says "I attacked the strumpet Astrid I did, and I'd do it again. Anything for our mother." Get your lore in order before you attack the story. It has become fashionable to attack Emil these days but I think Mob mentality is beginning to set in. It's group think gone mad. People are talking shit without even doing their own research or even knowing what they are really talking about. I suggest anyone who wants to attack Emil first watch the video about all this Emil hate done recently by NeverKnowsBest. I don't really care about Emil or what people think about him but I do get aggravated every time I see a video get posted criticizing something and then within the next few weeks after that you see dozens of youtubers dog pile on top and spew the same negativity for the sake of VIEWS! Puking opinions that are not even their own making videos on topics that they never even considered making before it became the hot topic of the moment.
"There's a conspiracy against the Emperor by the local Dark Brotherhood group what should we do!" - The Emperor's elite bodyguards
"lol idk lets stay here and put him and ourselves at risk instead of heading back to Cyrodill" - Idiot leader of the Penitus Oculatus who would rather get revenge for his son over making sure the FUCKING EMPEROR is safe.
tbf, they thought they were all eradicated at that point. motierre says so when talking to him in whiterun, and if you talk to maro before you kill him, he's surprised you're still alive
The only point I disagree with is how Astrid gets to be leader: she pretty much kept mostly people loyal to her as members, and she uses her cuckold husband to strongarm everyone into submission.
The real problem with Bethesda is that they make games for Todd, not for the fans. Bethesda is the rich kids mom who sells the poor family her sons used toys, chips and all at full price, and expects to be praised for even letting us play with the rich kids toys in the first place.
It is funny to me that these Dagoth Ur meme videos, sermons, etc. Made me get the Morrowind Game on steam and even tho i am a Skyrim fanboy, i greatly enjoy Morrowind. Oh and obviously my first Morrowind charackter is obviously a Dunmer, just to honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned.
The Dark Brotherhood was never a faction that interested me in either Oblivion or Skyrim, but I know my older brother completed it in Skyrim so I knew the gist of all that happened, but to actually be told about it in a more clear manner (many thanks to you for that Zake, Zach, and Dagoth) makes me glad I never bothered with their quest in Skyrim and infact would probably just wipe them out now if there wasn't anything worthwhile to get from actually joining it, heck Shadowmere, the only reward from the DB questline I currently know of, would have been a tempting reason, but then with Dawnguard added you get a horse you can literally summon wherever whenever from completing it making Shadowmere far less valuable, it's still cool looking, but now that's nearly all it has going for it..
Funny thing about Astrid kidnapping us? She can do so even on Solstheim. That just adds another layer of madness to her dragging a likely walking tank to the middle of nowhere.
Babette: Watcha got there?
Astrid *dragging the Dragonborn while sipping on Sujama*: A Sujama!
"Heavily inspired by Harry Potter." Now that was low :D
Working on that vid
Lord Dagoth, you now have a new N'wah follower ... he diligently writes on the parchmint as your divine self instructed and have been a fervent listener of your sermons for a while now ... praise he who preaches the sixth house and the tribe unmourned and bow to his will!
Content is simply captivating 👍🏻
This biggest plot hole is how no one ever notices the big demonic doors that are just a one minute walk away from the towns.
The ability to just destroy the Brotherhood outright is probably the best part of the questline. Good job Emil Provolone!
If only there was a Sixth House faction you could join. Perhaps Vhardenfell could be ruled by Sixth House worship, so the Dragonborn could worship a true God, Dagoth Ur.
About the Grelond the Kind contract. My theory is that Astrid was secretly watching and getting her sick jollies as the boy was suffering and trying to get Dark Sacrament going. It's also how she knew the Dragonborn was involved.
Also Cicero went crae-crae when he was bruried under a collapsed Brotherhood bulding that was attcked and razed by the Empire a few decades before the events of the game.
Also maybe the rumors kept The Brotherhood relevant
Cicero went crazy because no matter what he did, the Night Mother wouldn't speak to him despite caring for her as her Keeper. He eventually adopts the Jester gimic after being ordered to kill one, for one last contract, as a mental defense mechanism to cope with the Night Mother's constant silence as time passed, creating the Cicero we know and are annoyed by. It's written in his damn journals so I can't understand why people always get this wrong.
@@highlordlaughterofcanada8685 I've read the journals, and I personally agree. However, from another angle, he would still not abandon the Night Mother.
@@ZakeandZach Oh no, I agree with you on that 100%, I was just correcting the initial comment about what made him crazy, not you.
I know it's a stretch for Astrid to be the contract, but it still bothers me that she says "well done" when you kill her.
Where do you find these unintentionally hilarious screenshots to use as background footage. Miraaks skeleton is busy😂
I've been a part of the community for too long
I like the way they worked around the AI being unable to tackle the silent G in Pagliarulo by ad libbing it with other Italian stuff. That was clever
Do we not know that the dragonborn had a contract on him all along?
Haven't watched yet and already know it's a banger
It just feels wrong playing the DB and thieves guild questlines after playing the ones from Oblivions, like i get it in Skyrim it's supposed to be the "dark ages" of Tamriel but my lord both of them feel so flanderized compared with what we had
Dark brotherhood doesn't follow the 5 tenets and doesn't feel like a cult of assassins, Thieves guild doesn't even care about the poor and works for Maven out of all people
I don't understand how anyone could expect better from a man who embraced his ancestral birthright as "The Fool," seeing as he is a Paglliaco.
In all realism playing a game religiously just means you should be able to point out the parts you think could have been better
Pretty sure Astrid is straight up lying to you and all three of them are innocent, the whole contract ruse is just there to give you a pretext to kill one of them
Good point
I mean, I doubt the Farmtool gangster is innocent
If you use the Clairvoyance spell, it will show you which one is guilty.
@@chadharger9323 No it doesn't. When there are multiple quest targets, it goes to which ever one is closest.
@@highlordlaughterofcanada8685I was certain he was guilty as Farmtools usually are of any crime but I also killed the other 2 just out of the principle of ensuring no one tells the Mongrel Dogs of the Empire about how my Modded level 5000 dragon born got kidnapped by a girlboss who needs to wait for half of Tamriel gossiping about how a kid is doing the black sacrament before starting a contract.
I assume Shadowmere helped carry you to the secret cabin.
3:05 you can use clairvoyance as the screenshot shows but it doesn’t change anything
I absolutely love how you refused to say pigudrillio name properly
My very first playthrough, my son speedran me through the Civil War and I was a Stormcloak.
I asked the very question at the moment: Why did the Emporer show up to Stormcloak controled Solitude???
Also his distant cousin got assassinated? That's a Tuesday. Why would he care?
Please have Dagoth give his opinion on the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood quest line and lore changes. I want to hear how terribly Emil dishonored the sixth house.
I 100% agree with Dagoth. Wax Astrid immediately and download any penitus oculatus mod
Thats a thing??
"Was Astrid just intended to be an idiot"
I mean, she literally defied the god of her little murder cult and thought that was going to end well for her. She expected a man whose son she ordered killed (and whose job description included hunting down her murder cult) to let bygones be bygones and just sort of leave the rest of the dark brotherhood alone if they gave him the one who personally killed said son and pinky promised to stop trying to kill the emperor. I am pretty sure she was indeed intended to be a total idiot so as to justify the PC taking her job as faction head.
Edit: Also, technically she was indeed asking you for the sweet release of the void when she used the black sacrament to put a hit out on herself.
I see that she was intended to be idiotic, but part of it is a bit too much.
@@ZakeandZach I can understand the viewpoint that it was too much. But given how tumultuous things have been in Skyrim lately, I could see an idiot like Astrid managing to fall into the cracks by sheer luck after she became head of the Skyrim chapter of the Brotherhood. Both sides of the civil war just had way bigger fish to fry then the pathetic backwater remnants of the Dark Brotherhood's sole surviving chapter so they stayed afloat despite Astrid being an idiot. Then they took a swing at the emperor, became a priority problem to be solved, and pretty quickly went up in flames under her leadership pretty much the instant resources were put into wiping them out.
"The Sixth House is risen and lord Dagoth is its glory!"
Clairvoyance spell tells you who has a contract in the Shack.
missed opportunity to call Arentino a "mongrel pup" instead of mongrel dog
Something "funny" about the quest where you kill Commander Maro's son is that he will at one point pass through multiple Stormcloak-occupied cities (assuming you haven't completed the Civil War questline by siding with the empire yet). So you can kill the son of an influential Imperial military officer in a Stormcloak city and... It has absolutely _no_ effect on the rest of the story. The Stormcloaks don't get blamed for the murder, this doesn't give you any unique dialogue even. It's just inconsequential. As if he just dropped dead and just ceased to exist, disappearing from memory entirely.
Emil paguninina does not honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned
10:14 "Elisif would be joining Torygg in Sovngarde..." wait Lord Dagoth, I though that N'wah afterlife of Sovngarde accepts only valiant into their ranks. Are you trying to say that mongrel-she-dog Elisif, licking boots of both mongrel-dogs of the Empire and mongrel-dogs of the Thalmor, is valiant? That's an oxymoron!
2:54 use that spell to find that way and keep saving and you'll ne pointed at any one of them and kill her and she'll say "good job"
yeah when you really think about it, why do they need to hide who the contract was? Wouldn't it be even more damning proof that you're willing to do her bidding if they provided you with a single victim who has a chance to try and defend themselves and makes a solid case that they're actually innocent, but you're told to kill them anyways?
"Nord himbo"
Can we get an oblivion db analysis asap? Thx
What I don’t get is how Maro knew where the brotherhood sanctuary is, what the password was, and why they wait so long to actually do anything about them.
Even if we go with “they weren’t a threat until they began trying to assassinate the emperor”, there was plenty of time after the db assassinated both the emperor’s cousin (along with a very obvious brotherhood member there) and Maro’s son to consider them a potential threat. Instead they waited until the db got close enough to assassinate the emperor himself (and may have only failed because Astrid warned them).
Can’t even say Maro found out because of Astrid’s betrayal, because Maro sends you to kill the rest of the brotherhood if you kill Astrid in that cabin.
As a random thought, how much better would it have been if they attacked sooner such as when the db was busy finding Cicero? With the db returning while it was happening to save the day like the original plot. Maybe even throw in a subplot about rooting out whoever told Maro where to find the sanctuary.
Lord dagoth ur forgive me for I have recently finished the main quest of morrowind the azura mommy huggies and nix hound nuggies were to tempting, I am not worthy of your mercy
1:43 severals times after completing imperial quests for the war i sleep in a fort still get kidnapped
Eel Spaghetti... Todd's very own farmtool.
1:09 why doesn't the solitude guard/imperial soldiers/stormcloaks raid the shack when Astrid is in there its that close to solitude
I sadly have to go through the dark brother hood quest because of Legacy of the dragonborn mod.
Elder Scrolls lore, storylines and quest writing took a hit when Micael Kirkbride left BGS. As for the hack Emil, when he said we don't know what it takes to develop games and to basically STFU, that doesn't nagate my opinion. I don't need to be a chef to know the awful plater you just served me tasted like shit....
Damn right we don't need to be chefs. What's extra stupid though is he acts like writers in general can't give feedback because "Videogame different!" too. Bruh, it's not that different to a novel.
Is it me or does Lord Dagoth sound extra... snarky this sermon. Perhaps these plotholes dishonor the Sixth House and the Tribe Unmourned too much for even a god to remain completely cool-headed, especially if that intervention break was any indication.
My counter point is that you're never intended to be the dragonborn during side quests, only in the main questline and Dragonborn DLC. Dawnguard is just confusing if you're dragonborn or not because of the implications of your soul and blood.
Sure the undead dragon bro will acknowledge you as dragonborn if you've slain Alduin beforehand, but that doesn't quite explain how Serana was able to partially soul trap you, the reason the dragon was cursed with undeath was because his soul couldn't be claimed by the Ideal Masters, which means yours can't be either, or at least, it shouldn't be possible, and if you chose to be a vampire, that would imply that Molag has claim on your soul, which wouldn't be possible for a dragonborn because Akatosh still gets first dibs on a dragon soul, and no daedra screws with Akatosh.
Kind of funny how when trying to explain a plot hole I ended up bringing up more anyway, gotta love Elder Scrolls
To be fair, none of the faction quests are guaranteed to be canonically completed by the Dragonborn.
I think the rule of thumb is ‘player character definitely completed the main quests of each game and each dlc. But it’s questionable whether they complete the faction quests or not’
These quests do happen still, but if you don’t do them, canonically someone else does
In the shack only the dragonborn had a contract as you can be attempted assasinated from the start of the game. Dragonborn was most likely caught leaving skyrim because of this contract.
Astrid has you kill an innocence not for any reasons given but because when a contracted person kills an innocent person they may be allowed in to the brotherhood. A npc from oblivian explains this happening to themselves in the brotherhood in that game. Tldr you had the cont4act and kill8ng a random person was to allow you to remove your contract and 3nter the brotherhood and not a test in the way its commonly seen
Emil Pagliatelle is a very underrated creative. His writing is so far ahead that most people lack the mental capacity to really appreciate it. Maybe when TES6 releases, people will finally understand the pure genius of his K.I.S.S principle.
He's "keeping it Simple" 🤣
kiss shouldnt apply to literally everything otherwise nothing is complex including your stories which is a dumb idea. sure you can apply it to coding practises so that its easier to read and maintain or work habits, but narrative stories and deep lore should specifically be complex otherwise its not interesting...
1:22 is that... Is that Orcrist? Where can i get one
Technically everyone in the shack had a contract on them. If you kill Astrid she says good job before she dies.
Bla bla clervoiance bla bla the farm tool was the real contract
I thank lord Dagoth Ur for exposing this cheap knockoff of assassins.
And I can't wait for him to roast the entire College of Winterhold! Especially the fact that literally no one do a damn thing or a magic lesson properly (aside that one in the beginning, but that was more like of an introduction rather then proper lesson)! Yay!
Stealth is for Elf cowards a REAL NORD charges his enemies with a great axe! I was a battle mage in my first ever serous play through. Full ebon mail with conjured weapons and spell breaker. Switched to great sword spell after one handed was 100 for Dawnbreaker for undead killing
It seems to me that Astrid loved the power to decide who live and who died. If she was the one who confirmed the Black Sacrament then the arrival of The Night Mother would take her place in handing out assignments, and thus would be a challenge to Astrid. Mind you, this was never stated in the script. So if it is true then Emil Pandabear has another fail to his discredit.
I had some time off to play Oblivion recently, but when I heard Emil talking about the dark brotherhood writing, I didn't even install it. He fucking wrecked everything.
What I don’t get is how the brotherhood functions and stays in business. Like so you have preform the black sacrament for the nightmother to hear your job, then she passed it to the listener, the listener passes it to one of the four speakers, then one of those speakers pass it to one of the brotherhood sanctuary’s leaders, then the sanctuary’s leader then gives it to one of the assassins to fulfill.
You are really telling me that jobs comes from one person for who then passes it and passes it along to a assassin in ONE OF THE 9 OF THE 10 PROVENANCES IN ALL OF TAMRIEL ! Sorry no that is highly insufficient to have all your job come through one person only after someone preforms a ritual and if they still take contracts from a regular means like being hired directly then why go through the black sacrament at all.
If the black sacrament is the only means of hiring the dark brotherhood then they shouldn’t be as big or as lucrative as they are, and if you can just hire them directly then why do the spooky ritual at all. What do they do both and those who do the black sacrament get priority or something?
They need the money? Plus, those who want revenge for a death can get a body to do the sacrament for free like the aventus kid that didn't want to go to the orphanage from Annie the musical, although I don't think his mother was murdered, just dead.
I despise Emil, this pathetic n'wah continues to glorify this band of psychotic murderers when the Marog Tong exists. In my opinion, the canon path is the Dragonborn killing Astrid. He cannot even read and would immediately lash out if he was kidnapped.
i disagree with a couple of these plot holes
1) astrid is written to be an idiot and a fool. she says as much while dying when talking about how she shouldn't have trusted maro or the PO, and how she shouldn't have opposed the old ways of the DB.
2) cicero tried and failed to murder everyone in the sanctuary and had to flee ASAP. he barely made it out with his own life, let alone a giant metal coffin.
3) yes, titus mede ii wanted to die. he knows he's hated because he signed the concordat, and knows that as long as he lives he won't be able to unite the empire against the dominion for the next great war. he hopes his death will allow for a new emperor to take the throne and do just that. that's why he lets you kill him.
the real plot hole is how arnbjorn made it back to the other side of skyrim when bleeding out in dawnstar lmao. that plot hole does not honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned.
... I'd love to see the Companions plotholes
Ah yes, Titus Mead-Ay. Love that guy :D
Another plot hole is the complete absence of the blades in doing anything to prevent the emperor from being assassinated. Delphine should at least be aware of the plot.
More plot holes.
I always play a Dunmer in TES games and had her destroy the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim like any proud Dunmer would. I mean, just out of respect for the Morag Tong, of course.
Michael Kirkbride needs to come back for TES VII. He was just better than Emil Panini.
My opinion on skyrim is the whole story plot line was dog water but still put in over thousand hours in the game cause I more found love in exploring the world ... ofc nodded. There is no reason to play the game in vanilla form
Emil Pagliaccio does not honor the Sixth House and the Tribe Unmourned
Skyrim dark brotherhood is place of good assasins but aatrid and his husband are ultimate morons we have a vampire eternal kid farm tool raised to be asasin and sasy redgard the rest I only remeber a reject from that magic school
How is the Dunmer the only one you forgot
@@calebbonney4193 becose the dunnmer didn't honored the six houses
I don't support the bullying of panciarullo, but it's a fun roasting
Dagoth is only roasting his name + writing style
The worst part is that you have ZERO connection to the characters and Astrid is an ass. Like why would you stay?
Exactly
Finally, Dagoth Ur in his infinite wisdom has corroborated something that I felt was almost unbearably bad about the skyrim dark brotherhood. If anything, it simply proves Sithis is a false God who does not honor the Sixth House and the tribe unmourned and same goes for the N'wah who wrote his dumbass tamrielic representation in the form of the shart dookiehood.
True words Lord Dagoth. Can't wait for them to return again in the 6th main line game, instead of a unique equivalent of assassins from the region. 😅
Just copy and paste most guilds in TES 6. 🙃
The best Dark Brotherhood ? The Daggerfall one or Morrowind One.
Emil Penguin
5:52😂😂😂😂
what's that anime
I wish I could marry Grelod the Kind
Gross
You have committed crimes against Skyrim....
@@ZakeandZach When you are an assassin who murdered the emperor but your worst crime is love
Wow how lucky to be here early
Come, Vatican, come!