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Real Talk: FFXIV Dawntrail & Looking Ahead [No Spoilers]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2024
- 𝗛𝗘𝗟𝗣 𝗠𝗘 𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗧𝗘 𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗘 𝗙𝗢𝗥 𝗬𝗢𝗨. 𝗦𝗨𝗣𝗣𝗢𝗥𝗧 𝗢𝗡 𝗣𝗔𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗢𝗡: / quazii
We need to talk about FFXIV Dawntrail and my thoughts on the road ahead
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𝐓𝐀𝐋𝐊 𝐓𝐎 𝐌𝐄 𝐎𝐍 𝐒𝐎𝐂𝐈𝐀𝐋𝐒
Twitter: / imquazii
Instagram: / imquazii
Discord Community: / discord
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00:00 Moving on from Dawntrail
1:38 Endwalker into Dawntrail
4:13 So where should lore of FFXIV go after Dawntrail
6:14 The MMORPG Landscape is Changing
8:39 The future of combat and End-Game PVE
11:16 Housing needs to be looked at
14:22 New Leaders in CS3
15:22 The Trickiest Puzzle in Next 10 Years
Just realized that we didn’t get a free adventure glam outfit before entering dawntrail ._.
We also didn't get one entering sharlayan, however. We got a traveling outfit, the "Wayfarer" on Newfound Adventure patch, 6.1
I believe we did. Tataru gave you one at the end of endwalker I believe right before Wuk Lamat shows up.
@@JinxyoutoheavenThe backpack yeah
Yeah :/ we got the winter coat and ancients robe in Endwalker
We should have gotten beach outfit, smh maybe next patch
I think the expansion MSQ would've been better if we traveled with Estinien on his random side quests instead of Wuk Lamat. Estinien looked like he had much more fun than I did in the MSQ.
YES
Estinian was the only character who got the “this expansion is a summer vacation” memo, and he seemingly had a blast.
Yes! Thank you. From his cool intro in the trailer I was expecting an exciting side adventure with him. But no he just said 2 lines and bye bye. At least he had his vacation
just delete wuk lamat and we help koana instead haha
That would have been so much better! The twins could have babysat Wuk just fine.
A lot of people seem to have a hard time putting it into words but I think the frustration is a culmination of things. She was introduced in 6.55 at a half patch and was the entire focus of the story in the game after that. Historically 14 has had more of a slow burn when it comes to character introductions. They get introduced early on and you get to know them a bit before they have a focus in the story like Yugiri, Aymeric, G'raha, etc. and even then they don't dominate the screen time but add to scenes and plot points as needed. Tonally it was a little jarring when compared to previous entries.
As a result because of that she didn't really feel like part of the team yet, just someone you're working with. During the early parts of the game it feels like you're doing tasks to help her fulfill her objectives but that she (for the most part) didn't earn what was being given to her leading her towards a role she shouldn't have. Avoiding spoilers as best as possible but the 6th test stands out as glaringly bad personally. All that kind of compounded player frustrations to be a little adverse to her presence. While most people felt like the second half of the game was a breath of fresh air, the issue was only worsened by her still being there constantly giving little breathing room to the rest of the new (and old) cast and I think people resent the fact that there was solid story happening in the second half but we kept having to be reminded of her presence. Her power scaling was also questionable with her background and everything we had been shown.
In closing, there was some really good stuff this expansion and I think frustrated players felt like she constantly got in the way of that. If you like her character a lot though and are just living in the moment scene to scene then you probably enjoyed it and that's fine too.
Yeah, here is a thought experiment, take Wuk out of the expansion completely and have the WoL travel to the new world the same as Estinien... what would that change in the story... the answer is little.
The only real difference would be ... well ... huh, Catboy wins the competition, Two head gets humbled by either the Scions guarding him or the WoL, the Firebird becomes a fun chance to cut loose for the WoL like with the spar with Twinhead daddy... im... not seeing any negatives...
@@MasterLittica I can definitely see the point that your making, but I do disagree with it. The narrative focus of the story changes and so does the role of the PC. For me, I did enjoy the WOL's switch from central focus to mentor (with a pretty heavy focus). Because at some point it had to happen. And since growing the twins would cause half the fanbase to demand ritual sacrifices, a new char was needed for that. And the new opening was imo the best time to do it. As the OP said, it really hinges on your enjoyment of the Wuk character or not.
I think it would be better if she was introduced duing 6.0 even though the final days did not hit that cotenant yet. sharlayan was still gathering people of the star. she could have been one of the chosen and was taking to old sharlayan. her not being of the main msq but could be part of a filler mission looking at the refugees there. as a result of the final days being adverted she is stuck in sharlayan til everything Suttles down in shipping and we get to know about the character doing 6.x series and do much needed character development on her. then she gets a message that the competition is back on
also just abit 2 much focus on her and her plot line. like when we go to cowboy land with Erenville. we thought we where going to follow his plot line. 30 min later it instantly turned into wuks again.
@@jtwhat3004 Maybe, hard to say. Could be done well or wrong both ways. For instance that could be too soonand by the time we get to 7.0 anything "new" that is found out about her as a character gets even more scrutiny. Not to mention we would have to venture into her relationship with Erenville sooner, which means learning more about him sooner, and shift narrative timelines into the 6.x patches taht are far different in tone and focus. This is not the first time doing this, I recall us knowing very little of Lady Iceheart prior to later 2.X. But she was heavily focused on in Heavensward. Not as much a Wuk granted, but being that Heavensward was 1st exapac the WOL still needed more presence. I also think that development of her character prior to Dawntrail would have been destructive for that narrative. But maybe rather than development as I am thinking of it, you may be speaking of just establishing her and who she is?
@minaeru Calling her power scaling "questionable" is quite the understatement. She does more damage than the entire party combined and uses several LB3s in a row. In fact, she is supposedly so powerful and inspiring that she is the first character to give YOU a buff instead of the other way around. At that point in time she is a full blown mary sue.
Overall, I enjoyed DT, but I also understand the negative sentiment. But more than the complaints about the NPCs, my biggest complaint would be our WoL's lack of reaction time. We can survive/defend against world ending attacks, but we can't react to something happening 2 ft in front of us. Surely we have grown enough to not just sit and stare at what is happening in front of us.
I generally liked the themes, zones and overall plot of the MSQ. I agree the writing and pacing could have been better overall though. Hopefully, Ishikawa gets more involved with the writing process. I feel like we aren't getting enough of her writing as she had more of a supervisor role for the story in DT.
No way she supervised this garbage.
@@XPhobic76Indeed she did. And the two of the main msq writers where responsible for well liked storylines in the game. One of them did the Four Lords from SB and Werlyt from ShB. The other did the dwarven and pixie storylines for ShB.
Y'all really are viciously angry about Dawntrail lmfao jesus
I'm sure Ishikawa would love to hear that
New chapters don't exist, if its opening episode isn't just as epic and wild as the finale of the last season, the new season is garbage, this is the rule (apparently)
Dialogue is very bad, and childish. Pacing and quests are dull and boring at times. I still have enjoyed the msq. And i'm not finished yet. At the lvl 96 at the moment.
@@TheCallOfTheValkyrie For some people it's hard to accept that someone else might not like something they liked, so they belittle the other person's negative feedback and use logical fallacies to attack it. Not everyone who hates DT was naive enough to think it was going to be as good as EW. Most of us realize that the awful voice acting and the constant forcing of an annoying tropey character is the real problem with DT. There's also all the important NPCs we actually like being given sidequest-esque cutscenes and no fleshing out. We watched the trailer for DT and thought "oh wow cool, we get to learn more about Krile and Erinville", and instead we got "HAY TACOS AND FRIENDSHIP AM I RIGHT GUYS?!"
My problem is how Krile whole story was just sidelined. There should have been some time in the story early where we helped her. Too much focus on Wuk Lamat.
Yeah Krile got her origin backstory, and she experienced some level of closure regarding her parents but that was kinda it? Feels like there wasn't a whole lot for her.
Kryle along with tartaru were 2 of the worst written characters in the game, lala have to be comic relief, which makes it really hard to appreciate any kind of depth to their stories. TLDR All lala are poorly written.
Oh shut the heck up!! U r very racist, hating character cuz they are lala, the lalafells in ff14 carries the stories, like the Scions won't function without tataru, if it wasn't for tataru ur balky character won't have anything ever, u r nothing without her. @@dewindae3059
Housing has always been an interesting conundrum, but I don't think we will ever see instanced housing. I point out that the Islands are set up as hangout spots, but nearly nobody uses them for social events.
I think the issue there is you can only have up to 16 players. I think it should be as many as the game allows into houses, if not more, so you can set up some actual events with other people.
The current housing won't disappear because it's already had too much investment from players who have one, and giving everyone their own actual house now would require throwing that away and reusing the server resources.
Instanced housing is basically apartments. That's what exists for that. I'll keep saying that apartments should have been expanded on instead. The ward housing should have been kept for companies only and more focus placed on social events there.
Islands clearly exist more for solo hangouts or small groups of friends, rather than large events.
@@temisu_namisu Understandable but to be honest as someone who owns a medium size lot, I would not mind if the whole housing system got demolished and replaced with instance housing. To me, I feel it just will alleviate a lot of server room and allow these instances to not be constantly loaded all the time. Like it'll suck that players like myself who own a home and had investments in them would lose what we have, but I feel it'll be worth it becuase no longer will we have to keep paying a sub to prevent our lots from being demolished. Personally I don't see server resources being reallocated being a bad thing, because the gain would be a system that just doesn't limit players accessiblity to a certain feature of the game vs a feature that creates a constraint on a finite resource that further gatekeep by how people will own multiple lots through exploits.
I finally got a house but I'm still not a big fan of the system. And I specifically talk about forcing you to regularly pay your sub only to keep it which is greedy as hell, honestly. There's no real reason to keep doing this, yoshi-p. Talk again about taking a break eh?
Also i think to keep it a bit more fair Appartements should get an upgrade. Like that We can choose how many rooms and maybe even a small balcony or any outdoor area for gardening. I wouldn't even mind paying housing price as long as the house STAYS MINE.
You remember telling your non XIV friend that the game is great, but ARR is a little slow? I feel like that's been totally flipped on it's head. "Okay now when you finish Endwalker, please temper expectations." That said, the new jobs/duties/Extremes/zones are great.
Is it though. People need to understand that a new story is being told so that there's a bit of time needed to introduce new characters' new plots, which is why arr felt so long.
As if people didn't already say that about Stormblood. By the time new players finish Heavensward, theyre usually invested enough to get through Stormblood. This will be the same thing. As long as future expansions can match HW/ShB/EW
Except people who tell you that are right. I am not disappointed as I am good at having reasonable expectations. I knew about what I was getting and that's what I got
@@blairbryan4040 that's all well and good but they have nearly a 50 hour runtime to do that and there wasn't even much of a set-up, every major plot device they could've set up for was resolved in the same arc they started in
for reference, the lord of the rings audiobooks are also about 50 hours
if we compare only the story runtime, dawntrail has roughly 22 hours of just cutscenes
fullmetal alchemist brotherhood in it's entirety is 26 hours
needing that much runtime to set things up is just silly and there's no excuse for it
@elpanchou a realm reborn how long did it take for people to get invested into it. People tlneed to stop trying to compare it to endwalker and compare it to a realm reborn since there's more similarities in that. Endwalker was 10 years to get there not a fair comparison
I am the WoL, Wuk Lamats trusted purse chihuahua.
You are dumb, I'm sorry for you.
You were EMet Selch and Venat's chihuahua and you didn't complain.
You were Lyse and Zenos chihuahua and you didn't complain.
You were Aymeric's and everyone in HW chihuahua and you didn't complain.
NOW that we have a trans latinamerican VA somehow not being the "main character" is an issue.... yeah bro, cope harder.
It was... obviously not written by Ishikawa. There were very few characters that had much depth, frequently being reduced to the one-dimensional anime characters that swore me off that medium. The story was extremely softball. Most of the harder edges weren't explored for as long as you would see in quests as early as ARR. The mid-game chorus was jarring, like crowbarring in 500lbs of sugar and corn syrup. It honestly made me laugh. Hopefully they put Ishikawa back in the spotlight, because Dawntrail was a Dawntrial for me to get through.
People don't understand that Ishikawa's writing wasn't good because of the overall plot, but because she was so good at characterization and wasn't afraid to put controversial stuff in. The little moments in the story were cute and endearing, while in dawntrail they were...bland.
You know, stuff like Alisaie giving her pickles to G'Raha because she doesn't like them or Y'shtola acting like a mother or her Froth and Foam moment. Or Estinien confusing Alisaie for Alphinaud. When in Dawntrail, they couldn't even be bothered to let us watch Wuk Lamat struggle with capturing an Alpaca for comedic relief.
@@LittleSparklingStarsIshikawa isn't credited for all the MSQ moments you mentioned except the pickles lol. Since ShB, 5.0, 5.3, 6.0 MSQs are credited to her.
The froth and foam thing? That was already under the new Lead Scenario guy
I understand and partly agree with you, but your examples aren't completely true.
this is good tho bc she's definitely writing ff17
It was written by the guy who wrote the Bard quests... which were boring as hell
I may be too harsh. And Yoshi P did say the direction of the story would depend on player feedbacks. But the quality of the story and the direction of the story are two different things. A terribly written story is a terribly written story, no matter what direction it’s going towards. I think the execution here is the main problem, not the direction.
Agreed. Till now the stories in ff14 were well written. But this time it was full of holes. Plus very badly written character development. Although the second half of msq was better it was full of lost promising ideas. It felt like oh yeah we know the previous part is not that good so let's try to fill in as much as we can into the last part. And it backfired anyway.
THANK YOU.
I've been trying to explain this to people who are getting all pissy 'cause I said the story was not well executed.
The amount of strawman arguments and projection being thrown at me for merely daring to say "it wasn't a well presented story" is amazing.
Though... maybe it shouldn't be. FFXIV has always had these people in its community who won't tolerate *any* criticism of it.
@@twocatsyelling723 I guess I can understand when people just don’t want others to say anything bad about what they love. But in my opinion, those people are not doing themselves any favors. The more SE thinks the player base would eat up whatever sh*t they feed them, the less likely we are gonna get good quality content going forward. Constructional criticism is very important.
@@lynxlynx8125 Exactly. For example, one could argue that Stormblood was not a gripping story. But even then, you could tell the thoughts and efforts being put into it. You could tell they really tried to make the best content they could with the limited amount of resources (if that makes sense). But it was the other way around in DT. You could see the potentials in the story, but the thoughtfulness was just not there. And this lack of thoughtfulness actually bled into the design of gameplay a little bit too. For example, they could’ve added more engaging quests into the part with all the trails. But instead, the quests were all go here, talk to Wuk Lamat. It was like they didn’t think a lot of the things through.
@@smellybearc7411 Stormblood was my first expansion to wait for. And I loved it. It was fun, colorful and entertaining. The pacing was slow and you could see the change when it was Ishikawa to tell the story. But 7.0 msq left me with a bad feeling for the future.
Wuk Lamat has more lines of dialogue than the *entire* rest of the cast combined. Most Scions have less dialogue than new minor side characters. I'm not kidding, someone did the math.
And her voice actress is absolutely awful on top of this. So many flat or cringe deliveries. They need to give her the Lyse treatment ASAP.
@@desaranfenrir9295nope it’s in line with Koana and bakool ja j
@@desaranfenrir9295I agree on the delivery bit. There were so many times I expected more emotion from line but instead got flat delivery. Biggest example I can think of being the final trial where she’s just talking normally? Like where was the emotion? The resolve?
@@desaranfenrir9295 Agreed. This is why I changed the voice-overs from English to Japanese.
She's the hero you're adopting
Went to sleep as the Warrior of Light, Savior of the Realm, God of the Land, Liberator of the Oppressed to waking up feeling like an NPC or sidekick character.
Now that I’m in the endgame loop the game feels fine. Maybe give an option to skip the MSQ. Once you hit level 100 (from leveling other ways) talk to an NPC and unlock everything. The MSQ used to be fine to play through, this wasn’t for me.
Mandatory, forced MSQ is what made me quit FF14 as well. There are so many better things to do with my time...
I think if we had more Erenville there would be much fewer complaints. His story had a ton of nuance and I loved seeing bits of him shine through as we explored the new continent. Sadly his character development felt super overshadowed by Wuk Lamat. When she took a backseat in the final zones I really did enjoy it.
I think we had a perfect amount of Erenville. What I wish we had more was Krile. Also, in second act of MSQ, G'raha would make an intereseting persepctive that could both teach Wuk Lamat something that adventuring with WoL could not and show differences beetwen Spheen and Crystal Exarch, considering that both of them faced a dying world as leaders forced to endure apocalypse and afterefects.
They did Krile so dirty, it made me angry at the climax of her story.
Most of the complaints are just super dumb in general, I don't know why people try to validate every single complaint about DT as if all have a valid point, some bring valid points like not enough voiced cutscenes for example, but some others are incredibly dumb, like the people who expected that the we should've carried Wuk Lamat on out back through the entire Rite of Succession by doing everything by ourselves, expecting that Wuk Lamat would send us to do chores while she would be just sitting around doing nothing to earn her title and to those players that would've been "a good story" which is such an idiotic thing to even say.
@@BaghNakh1 I will say, I enjoyed first part of MSQ. There was enough lore, character building and alowing both 2nd and 3rd Promises to grow. On the other hand it was very slow. Second part was faster, had more interesting concepts but it juggled them worse and all problems with characters that were present in first part became too much in second.
Also I like the idea of WoL becoming a mentor to Wuk Lamat. I don't like the execution because outside of one talk at coffe table, there was not a lot of chalenging her belives or capabilities. I don't say "Let WoL do it", I say "Ley WoL chalange her so she can grow". And by WoL I would extend it to scions. 2nd promise was made better in that regard.
@@BaghNakh1 Literally no one is saying we should've done everything for Wuk Lamat, you are just trying to strawman people who point out that it's pretty dumb for us to be standing off to the side basically the entire time when Bakool Ja Ja is attempting to thwart her at every turn and we always let him walk off whenever he wants never getting involved. And then also doing the exact same thing again after Zoraal Ja murders their father and then threatens to destroy the entire city and kill everyone in it just because 'She has to face him herself'. Then finally after sitting through this continuously for an entire expansion about her your character is given their one and only moment to shine and but aren't allowed to because she has to swoop in and take that as well.
I disagree that instanced housing will create more social events. I just think of Garrisons from WoW.
Players have way more ways to interact in these instanced spaces than in WoW.
I prefer world bosses like in GW2
@@King-2077 We have those in our own way, they're called S Rank Hunts
I think looking at a failure from another game and assuming you can do it better is a dangerous game. And once you open up instanced housing, there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.
There are still completely vacant wards in Dynamis. If people want a house, they can get it.
@@OldManInternetohh that's cool, gonna get me a house.
Oh wait... I dont play on dynamis...
If it was summer vacation why was there no Y'shtola in a swimsuit?
Level her Trust to 100 and she gets one.
Taking 1 shot every time Wuk Lamat said she will be THE Dawnservant and protect her people.
I'm drunk af. I want Lyse back.
Also "peace and happiness". I rolled my eyes all the way back by the time we reach story lv 94 😅
Also her seasickness, motion sickness and fear of heights destroyed me every time. Uh no more please!
@@tjongdavid1921 thats kinda the point though. Like, half the point of the whole first arc was "a lot of young people have never ever had to deal with the danger and horror of war and it makes them real fucking flippant about it"
@@midgetsnowman Oh I assure you the point doesn't escape me at all. What I'm criticizing is Wuk keeps saying the same thing over and over again every 5 dialogs that she turns into a broken record. I want Wuk to speak less about it and more about something else. Maybe explain more that with peace comes stability, and stability leads to thriving economy, or something else. Literally there's a scene in the later part of the competition where the elector asked her "What solution can you provide for this issue?", she responded with "With friendship and kindness". I cringed out so much I wanted to stop playing the msq. Not to mention prior to the question being asked, Wuk and us have found a solution. So instead of answering the question with the solution we came up, she replied with that cringe? Those kind of dialogs make me wonder if their writing is aimed towards us older player who I believe make up the majority of the player base, or high schooler? Cause those are the things that got me hyped way back when (I'm 32 this year. I grew up with Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, etc)
Ngl I feel like at some point someone in the writing team fell in love with Wuk Lamat and it shows when an opinion of an explanation revolves around "if you like this character or not" then they have essentially over exposed said character
Are you stupid? You were hired by her wtf did you think the story was going to be about?
whoever it was needs to already be out of a job.
@@zeehero7280 honestly hope it makes you stop playing the game
@@shado3768 it's totally okay to have 0 standard and be a spineless consumer, chill.
It's the same writer who wrote Zero. I think we can tell he has no ability to write multiple characters at once and his oneitis is usually misplaced. He also can't write coherent scenarios if he tried. So much A leads to C, B doesn't matter.
I did enjoy my time with the MSQ, but I absolutely agree with some of the negative sentiments. What I'm wishing for in the MSQ moving forward:
More Erenville, more focus on the Warrior of Light (as in, I want to be actively involved and not just stand there on the sidelines and then still getting praise for no reason), I would LOVE LOVE LOVE more Azem lore! And looking at the "Key", that might be a realistic wish. And I want to see the "constant" threat we will be facing and finding out about going forward, something that gives us things to look forward to and a sense of mystery.
You will definitely get your wish ;). They don't put Azem's symbol above mysterious portal bending objects just to forget about it later! I'm looking forward to it also.
Great point! Would love more azem lore in endwalker emet really pushed new possibilities as/with azem
You get praised for acting as a mentor. Wuk Lamat's journey is a reflection of our time in ARR. There will certainly be more about azem, but we're embodying his legacy in this expansion, and that's not a bad thing.
It doesn't compete with endwalker or shadow bringers for me, but people are very negative about DT for pretty.. bad reasons.
@@ninjaone1From what I've seen, people are rightfully upset about the pacing and writing in Dawntrail. And again, I said I had a good time; doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the flaws in the writing. Imagine how much better the experience could have been even for people who enjoyed it.
They're telling us we're a mentor, but actively we're just a bystander. I would have LOVED to actually mentor Wuk Lamat besides the very vew dialogue options we were given, but our mentor role was heavily underutilized. We didn't even get to train her in combat, she just randomly got stronger. Even in an MMO context there would have been cool options to "show not tell", but that didn't happen. It's important to give that feedback.
I just want to say I’m glad you enjoyed it and thank you for trying to see the point of view of those that didn’t.
The experience really is made worse by die hard “fans” that can’t be happy with just their own enjoyment, they have to FORCE everyone else to also like it or throw all sorts of “arguments” as to why liking it is the only valid opinion and no you’re wrong if you don’t.
A number of the side quests and side characters had some good writing to them so even though I could not finish MSQ fast enough (that last trial, that one scene.. omfg) I do have hope that the patches can still be better.
I’m struggling to get through the MSQ. I’ve started skipping and I’m still bored to death. I’d rather play something else but I’m trying to get through it so I can level my crafter and gatherers then other jobs. It’s a struggle.
It has always been a struggle, throughout the all expansions imo. Like a shitty anime one forces oneself to watch for whatever reasons.
Same. I'm still not done with it. Wuk Lamat is so boring and the VA is just awful. It's painful
@@Saint_Cuthbert I hope you are at least using Japanese voices for your own sanity =)
If the game is mechanically at its best, both in game systems and server stability, a mediocre story can be overlooked up to a point.
From what I gather, we have another case of Stormblood and Lyse. Stormblood's post release story was some of the best imo, so hopefully they will repeat that.
I'm gonna go find Lyse in-game and beg her for forgiveness after the grief I gave her, she's no where near as pointless and annoying.
I will be pleasantly surprised if they manage to write patches on the level of SB. Alas, I don't think modern ffxiv has the balls for it anymore
@@xviii5780
"Modern FFXIV"?
It's the same team that made Endwalker two years ago...
@@Seedmember CBU3 should rename themselves, including Yoshi NB3 at this rate. No Balls 3
@@pastaboy1338
Wow, edgy much?
I didn't have enough time to beat the Elden Ring DLC :(
skill issue
I don't even care about the bad character wuk, i just want my character to do more then nod head and fist punch.
So true,
There's [Not the main character] (this is okay)
and then there's [Irrelevant to the plot] (this is not okay)
DT felt like the latter with how there was barely any impactful/engaging things for us to do -- i feel you could've swapped some random NPC with WoL and the plot would barely change; that's how insignificant our role ended up being.
Some folks are saying our role is her 'mentor'??
But all the nodding, smiling and (forced) dialogues just felt like coddling a spoiled toddler 🙄
From what i gathered from all social media and streams and content creators
DAWNTRAIL: STORY it depends if you like Wuk lamat you gona enjoy it if you dont you gona hate it intil you hit the second part . and they did the same with LYSE BTW WUKLAMAT is not special for getting haters and people get anoyed by her
DAWNTRAIL: DUNGEONS / TRAILS / EXTREMS every one is enjoying them and they said they never been happier with the battle content and they cant wait to do Savage .
Battle Content is the best it's ever been. All of the zones and 90% of the music are good. MSQ is the absolute worst I've ever seen. I have never skipped a cutscene in my life until this expansion. And now I've been skipping left and right just to get this annoying, Mary Sue Cat off of my screen.
Agree. The Story is... bad. Or... not for me (and others). But the dungeons etc? Brilliant. Even pvp is fun atm.
to be honest even if you like wuk lamat there's a few things that may come out disappointing, such as the sheer lack of chances you get to play as her. There's many moments in the story where she does things off-screen, or on autopilot in a cutscene where all you do is watch. Videogames are not like movies or TV shows where you just watch. There's an interactive element involved as well and the lack of interaction can work against the game.
Yeah I had my problems with the story (I do like Wuk Lamar though) but dungeon designs, animations, music, and more are still phenominal
Even the second part was too much, Wuk lamat was kind of cute and entertaining on the first arc but on the second arc when we should have focused on Krile, Erenville and maybe even Koana, nope, there she is again with us.
Whatever your opinions are on the MSQ is one thing but we can all agree the music and fights were pretty enjoyable right?
I agree on the fights and on most of the ambient music, but there's not a single memorable vocal song throughout the entire thing except for Smile. Every expansion had at least one big trial song at launch, but not DT.
@@Chaoskoch Yeah I agree.
The music was weak this time around. It had none of the usual Soken charm.
The fights is by far the best thing in dawntrail so far. The MSQ isnt bad, its a bit draggy but expected. Most of these negative comments are about the Wuk Lamat's VA and the baby inc. They were bomb with negative rating because of these. Really not fair and I hope SE doesnt take this rating too badly. They did a good job this expansion.
@@ChaoskochI loved Alexandrian dungeon music and The Queen Eternal music. It was fun and memorable
"Mixed" is the best way to describe Dawntrail. There are things that I like about it (maps, combat, dungeons, new lore) but there are also as many things I hate about it. I hope the post-DT content will make up for the disappointment just as StB was.
One of the beauties of ffxiv is that theres virtually nothing you can't do if you pickup a job. They won't do this "only 10 people on your server can craft this thing" It goes against the system they've built
Agreed. Artificial scarcity in a video game is a dark road to go down and I don't like its implications. Like, what if the 10 people simply can't be online? What if they make a cartel? There's no realistic way here without doing some kind of hackneyed system. Instead, skill should be the determinant, and if there's 2000 people on a server with said skill? So be it. That being said, with optimizations leaking in from the community, it started getting harder to keep important things limited. Expert crafting is fun, but it's also a 'solvable' thing.
What's the solution? Not sure, but I know the roads that have been traveled in the past and where they lead.
That being said, I totally agree that housing should probably be instanced at this point.
Reminds me of fictional mmos where only the main character gets such and such story quests or unique items or abilities. For example Legendary Moonlight Sculptor or Sword Art Online.
Who would want to play an mmo where if you join late you miss out on all the good stuff?
@@JO_______ Scarcity can be good too though, as it will help shape economies in videogames that will then drive different forms of activity.
@GoatOfWar the pros don't outweigh the cons. We still have rare drops but nothing insane thankfully
@@FF-tp7qs Difference beteween SAO and regular mmos is, its a VRMMO, the first one ever made when it first launched if I remember correctly, so naturally game mechanics are gonna be different than what the usual mmo viewer are used to seeing. Somehow, people don't seem to grasp that before going into the show. Plus the creators purpose of it was to make it an actual world, so the scarcity of some items makes a bit more sense.
I can't get over how they saw the reception to Lyse and thought "yeah, let's do that again... but even more... but also slower. A lot slower."
Looking at the PVE content so far I'm largely not that concerned with the current end-game, I think they're on a good path and will cover that element well.
For me the biggest concerns for my long-term enjoyment of the game comes down to, a) the mog station and account management/payment handling, and b) the continuous neglect of the early game.
A) The first point just comes down to the issues that came from region locking and how hostile the payment processor became recently, with no solution or little communication in sight for those of us that ever moved or those in unsupported regions. I just finished 7.0's msq and really enjoyed myself and was feeling hyped to continue, but in 6 months my card expires and its up in the air for me if I can even keep my account subscribed, leading me to second-guess what, if any, long term goal or grinding I want to commit to... I hope this all won't bite Arthars or Zepla in the butt as well, who are two prime examples of people in tricky situations like this.
B) It's very difficult in a game like this, especially this old, to keep maintenance on the early game. We're level 100 now, and unfortunately a natural consequence of our toolkits being developed and balanced around an increasing cap means you have to prune and pay a lot of attention to balancing at cap, which means that toolkit gets spread more thinly over more levels. That said, a lot of people still play fairly casually and do roulettes and we spend a LOT of time synced to lower levels, and the low level gameplay has suffered for a very long time now. I'm also not convinced this makes it as exciting as can be for new players considering how much content they need to work through, especially with how trivialized it has become.
They need to shuffle some actions around to make lower level play somewhat more engaging, there's no reason we shouldn't all have at least one AOE ability by the first dungeons let alone leave Dragoon and Ninja without aoe gcds by 38 and 40. Jobs at 50 should also be resembling their higher level versions much more closely, while ofc making sure that it's not overwhelming.
And the mechanics of lower level duties probably don't need to change much, but they also need to not feel like *suggestions* just because all they do is tickle you for the most part. Remember what level of skill we're expecting of players by 70 and above, we should be doing better at training them and make it so that less people need to be hard carried in the later game.
Im surprised no one has brought up the laziness on the devs behalf when it comes to armor designs. There are SO many armor recolors from ShB and EW this expansion. Not to mention they introduce a two dye system for armors and theres still dungeon gear that isn't even dyeable.
It's even more frustrating when Yoshi P keeps turning down removing glamor restrictions for NON-AF gear because he fears it might confuse players. 🤦
It was not a summer vacation, we got stuck babysitting. I also think people saying "We're supposed to be a mentor" is kinda a cope since we hardly do any actual teaching and just reassure sometimes bad decisions.
Thank you for this. Like the solo duty with wuk would feel much better if we had like a sparring session, or instruction hunt (not just comic relief one) or something before it happened. So far the most recent thing was "rely on other people" which she then... doesnt do.
The whole "mentor" thing is a perfect case of people just completely ignoring what actually happened in the story just to parrot what YoshiP told them the story is supposed to be about. At no point in the story did we act as a proper mentor figure, we were just a background character.
@@cassiusbright1062Yet another thing they advertised that we didn't actually get in the end 🙈
I think we don't exactly need another massive story arc. Even though I enjoy them. Personally, i've had the most impactful story experiences when it came down to smaller and more compact, but rich story beats. Stories like Tsuyu/Yotsuyu and exploring the idea of what makes someone responsible for their actions, justice, and what it means to have real retribution. Themes that really ask the player to think about what's right, human thoughts that really have no real answer.
I think of themes like in portions of endwalker delving into the thought of what it means to suffer, to struggle, and what comes out of it. Whether struggle is necessary in all life lest the door opens to apathy and complacency for the joy of life itself. While Endwalker's whole narrative point was to close up the Zodiark/Hydaelyn era and the story of the ancients, themes like those are FAR more impactful than large set pieces of long standing villains or narrative conclusion fights.
People loved Heavensward for its theme beyond simply the tale of dragons. Dragons are a dime a dozen in fantasy media, but exploring the consequences and the sins of the father in relation to the son, the cycle of vengeance and betrayal, that's what makes it more than simply about dragons. That's all the game really needs for its story. Focus on a theme or an area that a theme can be taken from. Build one for the other. Hell, even executing a common theme with the aide of set pieces in game would still be fantastic.
Most stories have been told in some way or form already, but FFXIV has the power to execute a story in a unique way with its own settings.
Had Wuk Lamat been anything less than 99% of the screentime of the MSQ, perhaps things would have been better.
About content, Trials were really fun, so are Extremes, dungeon bosses were fun enough compared to other dungeons, but the biggest flaw imo was the pulls, having so many packs of 2-3 mobs or super tanky enemies that would take you forever to kill felt pretty underwhelming and disappointing, I don't think there were big pulls in general, and as a tank is pretty sad =(
Music was simply godly as usual. I cant stop listening to the last boss theme.
I personally enjoyed the MSQ a lot, yeah it started extremely slow but I liked it in general, thank god I play with japanese voices, I feel like that was a big reason why some people hated Wuk Lamat or the story lol.
SPOILER: The last map had me in tears because of the theme that was present, having that short time to say goodbye to your loved ones is something I bet a lot of people would appreciate a ton.
Honestly they should have done away with the random mobs in Dungeons when they consolidated the Xp you gain in them to the Bosses
personally i wish they did more with dungeons. they're ALL the same layout basically. 2 packs of mobs and then a boss. repeat for EVERY dungeon in then game. not to mention every dunegon is basically 3 bosses. it gets realllly boring
I certainly feel mixed. About the job design, the story, the characters, the voicing. almost every aspect of the expansion so far. I don't hate any of it, but none of it hits like Shadowbringers (especially) or Endwalker. I am hopeful going forward though.
I am very curious what your take is Quazzi on the MSQ. Any plans to drop one of those videos in the near future? Love the content, thanks!
How do you follow up a story conclusion of the caliber of ShB and EW? You write a strong well written slice of life, more character focused intimate story, which is not what happened with DT as far as im concerned. I just find it so incredibly obnoxious and lazy that people dismiss the legitimate criticisms of DTs msq with suggesting its only disliked because it wasnt as epic because its a new start. A great story is not predicated on stakes or scope and this game is not exempt from that fact. DTs msq narrative was found weak by many for reasons entirely taken in isolation.
It's more of using "gender identity" of a voice actress to dismiss legitimate concerns&issues with the MSQ. That also includes the voice acting.
Dawntrail was a great change of pace.
Isnt that what DT was? Character focused intimate story about wuk lamat?lmao. I dont like wuk lamat as a character, but everything you mentioned is what’s DT already. As for the story, it wasn’t bad, the pacing at first was just bad and boring but I understand the build up to learn the tribes.
@King-2077 I was thinking the same thing, didn't it have all that? I agree that some of the characters fall flat in a lot of areas and the last half of the game, even though it has my favorite zone, was the weakest part of the whole expansion while the first half was the strongest.
The writing for the “real evil guy” was just atrocious.. no understandable motivation.. this felt like story writing for games from the 90s
My biggest gripe with the story wasn't Wuk Lamat at all. Like yeah, she's had to do ARR Alphinaud levels of character growth in 1 base expansion story, same as Lyse, which doesn't lend itself to realistic growth and definitely doesn't make it easier to grow fond of her as a character. However my main gripe with Dawntrail's story was the lack of combat. They did such a good job with the dungeons, the trials, and the scenarios, that it kind've makes me sad they didn't include a lot more combat in the MSQ. In the first 8-ish hours of story you maybe fight a monster once, twice at a stretch. I understand FFXIV's levelling isn't a combat-heavy affair, hasn't been so for quite a while now, but the amount of combat we got to do this time around was tragically low. In a story like ShB and EW where the stakes are almost always high, that's not that big a problem, but when the stakes are as low as they are, a little bit of combat to break up the monotony would've been welcome.
The latter half of the MSQ kind've redeems the dreadfully boring first half though.
Yes, this I can agree with. I have thoroughly enjoyed DT as a whole and I absolutely love Wuk Lamat. And I really enjoyed the story, the lore, and the exploration. Sure, the writing could be better at times, but personally it was a great expansion for me. The one issue I have is the quest design. It felt very sluggish and very unnecessary at times. More combat would probably alleviate it a bit. at least you'll catch a little break from reading. It's almost as if you have to do things ONLY so that you have to spend time doing it, not for any particular story reason which is not very enjoyable.
@piicii86 I'm of the same mind. I am loving even about the expansion so far, but feel there's too little combat to break up the walking and talking parts.
The lack of combat was big, even at this point I'd appreciate some generic get 4 hooves quests. The expansion has kept me on a reasonable sleep schedule through a vacation because it makes me sleepy.
Then the dialogue was formulaic and boring on top of that. I was never excited to go to a new zone because the quests and format are identical to the one before it. What're we gonna do here folks? May I guess talk to 3 people to get a feel for their culture then have a cutscene of them dryly explaining the same thing they just explained in the previous dialogue? Then a 15 minute cutscene to explain a fetch quest then another 15 minute cutscene to re-present the culture beats they had already explained twice over.
@@piicii86 Yeah I was kinda sad about the lack of combat
Can we get a spoiler version of like your final thoughts on the base Dawntrail expansion?
Would love to hear your thoughts but 3 hours is intimidating, and while first reactions are nice I also like collected thoughts.
While I enjoyed the expansion, I felt like there were points in it that were weak especially in the second part of it. It had it's highs and lows which is fine but my main issue is quests that feel like padding, and I did feel more of that in places here than I have felt in a little while in this game. They left a good framework and things to build off of in the story, and I hope to see more of what they can accomplish with what they have set up. I have other issues but that leads into spoiler territory and this ain't the chat for that lol.
I'm just not feeling this xpac. I've played the game since ARR only dipping out a few times when I feel like the content or story are not really keeping me engaged and this is one of those times.
After seeing the entire MSQ, I have a few thoughts. I'll keep it spoiler free.
Yes, after Endwalker I was expecting a lower stakes story. What I got was a lower quality one. Not just a little bit lower either. I was actually suffering through a lot of this story. I could feel myself turning into a blasphemy in real time. It feels like it was written by a 4th grader. It actually seemed like the writers WANT us to hate Wuk Lamat. Well, they succeeded in spectacular fashion. I do hate her, very much. Also, take a shot every time the game asks you to "talk to three people and then speak to Wuk Lamat" (Don't actually do that, you'll die).
As far as voice acting goes, yes, this game has some amazing VAs, and some less good VAs. Most of the time though, those less good VAs have little screen time, so it doesn't matter as much. (Athena comes to mind here.) Wuk Lamat on the other hand, has some of the worst VA I've heard in this game since ARR, and she has a TON of screen time. WAY too fucking much. Dawntrail has some truly epic moments, every expansion does. Of course it does. But even those moments were soured by Wuk Lamat's screeching. I never want to hear that character speak ever again. I hope they Lyse her. ASAP. It's a shame too, because the other new character's VAs killed it. Bakool JaJa and Koana both are fucking amazing. Sphene too! But their performances get stifled time and again by Wuk Lamat, and how shit that VA is.
All that being said though, the actual battle content seems S tier. All of the dungeons and trial bosses looked great. No complaints there.
100% agreed.
Couldn't have put it better myself
Very much looking forward to the msq review. :)
I think the reaction to Wuk Lamat was warranted. Wuk Lamant's VA was passable, but there a few moments where it was supposed to be epic and... it was not as strong/good as it could have been. Great example is the final trail phase 2.
I would like to see an expansion focusing on the WOL, and that might be the next one considering everyones reaction of DT.
Been playing for 10 years. I just want a good story, good written characters and emotional connections. Not contrived and on the nose forced narratives. Not the characters we all love act like random npcs. Not using cheap shonen tricks without any substance.
This is the first expansion where I feel like the ideas for the MSQ story was only great on paper but failed in many ways on execution. To me it felt like a quality control issue from little things in the writing to big things in the writing. I could go into detail but there would be 100% spoilers. The essence of it though to me is that the writing quality is nowhere close to style I have come to expect from CBU3. It's almost like the writing was done by a completely different team.
Outside of the story, everything is S tier which is usually the opposite. All in all, Dawntrail is a very strange a confusing expansion.
I wonder what the next expansions are gunna be and how long they gunna take
The only issue I see going forward with personal housing is the same issue with island sanctuary. If everyone has an island, no one visits each other's island. Having a space in the game that is available to anyone in limited quantity creates the value of people wanting to see what others have done with them. I would have never have spent hour going through houses and seeing what they looked like if everyone had one
Dawntrail's issue wasn't the story as much the writing quality. The plot made sense and could have been great if not for the poor execution - even taking into account that a lower key storyline is much harder to write for.
YES this is what the vast majority of players mean when they voice mountains of complaint posts, on both NA and JP. it's not the story layout its how its written, its not because it's not Ishikawa, this is objectively terrible writing at places and you don't need to be Ishikawa to do much better.
Whats lower key storyline when Amaurot 2.0 was a world ending threat again
The whole Wuk Lamat story should had finished at lvl 92-93. But unfortenately that's half of the game, and that's crazy. Dialogue is childish too. Pacing is terrible. But it's still pretty good imho. It's not trash, like some haters are saying. And it's not woke lol.
@@zeehero7280 most people nowadays don't have a standard or understanding about writing/narration. They also don't understand nuance. They auto pilot the MSQ and think their 'feedback' as in 'i love DT story Wuk Lamak cute yay!' should be taken seriously.
This, so much. Even Wuk Lamat could have been a good character, one we root for and one we're truly proud of, but they were so scared to give her real flaws to grow from that she fell completely flat as a character. And because of that, the race to the throne fell flat as well, because god forbid she gets meaningful dialogue, especially with other characters...
I liked the story overall. Didn't love it, but i liked it. I'd say it's on par for like Stormblood.
That being said, a big part of why i didn't love it is that we sacrificed 90% of the usual character moments with people we care about (or newly care about, i like Bakool and Koana a lot). In exchange, it was all given to Wuk Lamat. I think she is fine, but not a strong enough character to hold the vast majority of the narrative and emotional beats on her shoulders.
I feel like we had basically no emotional heart to heart scenes with any of the Scions despite the fact Krile is supposed to be a big focus in the expansion.
I'd either have liked less Wuk Lamat or more of other characters.
I mean, I figured the last expansion would be the end of the game given that almost all the story lines came to a conclusion and that they would just announce a new MMO or one final expansion to tie-up the lose ends. We are also at the point where our level cap is getting high. Also, the villains kind of lose their threatening aspect when we have literally slain The Twelve, Hydaelyn, Zodiark (even if it wasn't at full power), Endsinger, and all the primals of note. What can honestly pose a threat to the hero when at this point killing gods is just another Tuesday? The only reason we even have to do trials in Dawtrail instead of just slapping everything is because of game mechanics. They blew the scope of the world and power fantasy to the point that you can't really do much else now. The dungeons/trials are enjoyable, but none of the MSQ really felt all that engaging, not to mention, kind of cheating to hire a literal god slayer to fight on your side in a competition for the crown. Outside of a new MMO, I have no idea how you even make anything a realistic challenge for our players. Limited housing is idiotic and they should have fixed this awhile ago. I'd much rather have all housing instanced than the limited housing we have now, which only made the meaningless Island Sanctuary feel even more like a slap in the face.
Thanks! I always enjoy what you have to say. I haven’t gotten very far into dawntrail yet, but I think one thing that unites all FF titles is the ability to put you into a story and break your heart. We need to get to know a character as a friend and then lose them. Characters that are introduced only to be killed shortly thereafter are cheap shots, and those lost only to be resurrected ten minutes later have their sacrifices cheapened. I think the expansions that are best loved are the ones that feature true and lasting sacrifice that mark a real before and after. Also, the twins have to grow up sometime!!! Maybe there has to be a point where your WOL has advanced into the future enough that certain quests are no longer unlockable due to story NPCs no longer being in the right place. I believe that these limited-time side quests were present in older titles like FF7.
The biggest flaw with the MSQ is Wuk Lamat and the inability to do anything wrong for the right reasons. She's written like a self-insert character; not a Mary Sue, but forcibly liked to the point where she becomes more annoying the more forced our WoL responds with "You can do this!" and "Show them who's boss, Head of Resolve!". She got overexposed while other characters that served to support the story were underexposed and given very little depth. Bakool Ja Ja's dilemma didn't come to light until the very end of the Rite and did a complete turnabout that would make Phoenix Wright blush with envy, Zarool Ja's dilemma didn't actually generate any sympathy UNTIL HE WAS ON HIS DEATHBED, and Koana's was the only one who got any amount of screentime to improve at a decent rate because he supported Wuk Lamat in general. She's a golden child furball and does not want to pry herself away from us and I feel betrayed by the writing team.
I think you said the key phase "Golden Child".
The story was written in such a way that she could do no wrong.
Also I disagree slightly, if you do the Mary Sue 10 point test, she scores a 9.
The whole thing through, I kept thinking she had that "Modern Day Girlboss" vibe. She couldn't fail, and even when she did, it was a nothingburger that she overcame with no problem a few quests later. Stated to be pretty weak early on, and then mysteriously stronger than actual battle-hardened (often male) characters with little effort like an hour later. I entirely think she fits the Mary Sue title.
Yeah I couldn't have said it better myself. Wuk Lamat had potential but it was all squandered with the poor forced writing. Also we weren't able to even steer her in the right direction at all, even when it would 100% be totally in our character to do. Theres so much wrong with DT MSQ, While it had some good parts its a net negative, and I pray we see ZERO of the same cringe in the future starting NOW. or a lot of people will be seriously considering an unsub uninstall.
I have never even remotely thought of that or thought I would think of that. the entire game up until this point has been fantastic. Dawntrail is the first MSQ I can describe as actually bad.
@@SageTigerStar Whoever did the writing, needs to go. Immediately. Replace them NOW to save the games story for the future.
Our character the whole story be like: 😊 "you got this girlboss" always smiling, nothing to do really. Scions even more bad lol. They have no purpose, like zero meaning to be in there in the first place lol.
Without spoiling anything. I feel like the missed some story marks that could've made Wuk lamat more fleshed out.
Also, it feels like the individual who voiced wuk Lamat had a bad voice direction, or was incapable of showing a wide range of emotions. I'll see if the JP voice actors sounded the same with a specific story beats, as the English ones.
Spoilers for the msq!!!
My biggest question after finishing the msq is how the relic relates to Azem.
Since their symbol appeared on the relic, its safe to say that azem at least has something to do with it. but why would they need a tool to travel to other worlds when the reflections did not exist yet when azem was around? Does that mean it allow travel to even more distant worlds? Are there more than one "Source"? this is what i hope to have answered in the future. Because it could open up so many more story oportunities, and opportunities to see more stuff from other ff games.
well.. there is also the question why the ascien regarded azem as a traitor. as far as we know, azem stayed out of the whole Hydalyn-Zodiark..disagreement. So maybe something happened with azem AFTER the sundering. Who said they didnt try to "ascend" a shard of azems soul like they did with fanny-danny and the others?
there is also the implication that azem had time-travel-powers considering that Themis during the raidseries said that "azem told him of the coming of their guiding star" i.e. the WoL. But how/why did azem knew that we would again travel to elpis? sure Venat could've told her about us but how did azem know we would return?
I'm hoping this is the case and Y'stola can finally link the first and the source for travel. This also is very plausible as there is a airship area in the first but it isn't operational
I’m a break taker and coming back and trying to learn how to play has been a learning curve for me. But I dove into the MSQ thinking ehh I’ll pick up my rotation while leveling. I’m two zones into the Wuk Lamat escort and I have fought a total of ten mobs. The back and forth quests have always been a thing in FF14 but DT has made the questing experience a walking simulator
I was really hoping for a Heavensward style adventure focused on one area and its people, and I only got a little bit of that. Everything feels so disjointed and poorly executed overall despite some great concepts, which is shocking coming from CS3. I really didn't expect to prefer the Zero arc to a full expansion, but here we are.
It was pretty clear it would not have been that. The premise was around a nation and continent with myriad people who were brought together. It was fairly plain to see it would involve multiple different peoples.
HW really wasn't much different, though. Sure, the primary focus was on Ishgard, but you also had different groups: the Vanu, the Moogles, the dragons, the Vath. Really, each expansion has always been about that sort of thing.
@@temisu_namisu I think you're taking me a little too literally. I of course knew that it would be a myriad of cultures, but they are still all the "people" of one nation.
Also they were testing with cloud servers so probably in the near future they will migrate to that, this could be a really cool thing because in the housing situation they mentioned that they have servers just for housing so with cloud servers it will be more easy to create servers and probably the housing situation will be solved.
I’m a 5.3 free trial sprout and I took an extended break after 6.4 cos the 6.4 msq felt like a bit uninspired and rushed? Sure there were cool lore bits but in terms of the villain, as of 6.4 Golbez felt like another unbroken Ascian?
But I decided to play Star Rail instead and it was refreshing, with its own Heavensward, Stormblood and Shadowbringer esque arcs but with their own spin. If anything, now I’m looking forward to starting 6.5 and 7.0. Even if the story is meh, it’s fun to come back to this world again. Played a run of Copied Factory last night and it was a blast!
The overall consesus seems to always been the same for tje absolut majority of reviews & ratings from everyone.
Expansion had great content (dungeons, trials & solo duties, zones) with great music. The story idea, story theme & message were really promising & solid.
The weak part however was the execution on the msq as it dropped the ball several times despite laying itself a solid foundation in a lot of moments!
Furthermore the new characters stared of strong and well but ended up becoming stale in the second half of the story, which only hurt more as we as the WoL took an a permanent side character role throughout the expansion.
Side character is being generous WoL got turned into a glorified towel boy. Bruh I could not wait for to be over and then finally trial now made me hate Wuk Lamat bruh she is the WoL.
Ok, so the WoL is a side character in somebody else's story. But you don't explain why this is bad.
@@Dharengo Because this has been done to much greater effect before, i.e. Heavensward.
@@Dharengo A spoiler following here so be aware if you aren't done with msq.
It's mostly in regards to the rest of the Expansion. There are moments where it feels like "okay hell yeah now is our time to shine" but it is suddenly undermined by a different character taking the reigns. The WoL is taking on this mentor role in the first half of the story which is fine, but as soon as we go our own way and the second Part is beginning we briefly have our own agenda before being thrown back into the background. This is emphasized further by literally becoming a very dangerous threat to not just tural but eorzea at some point witb zoraal ja wanting to conquer the world. This is no longer just wuk lamats business but begins to become WoL business. Yet we remain in the background. It even goes further to becoming a "world ending threat" when sphene plans to fuse worlds.
We are never in the foreground and even in the final trial, it is sphenes decision to face us by removing krile, wuk lamat & alisae from the battlefield.
This would be our moment to be the decisive factor in saving the world, yet it is underminded by wuk lamat swooping by and "saving/supporting us". We are the WoL who faced the literal end and saved the universe, yet we require the help of wuk lamat for some reason.
Dont get ne wrong i absolutely loved wuk lamat in the First half and thought it great that we were mentoring her, but i feel the second half of the msq should have put more emphasize on the WoL as the main character as this was more of a "the gloves are off" moment and we're going into serious business here.
@@Chaoskoch That means there's no inherent problem with being a side character. Therefore the problem someone might be having is something else.
My complaint about Dawntrail isn't that the story is bad or the content isn't fun or Wuk Lamat is a bad character.
It's that Wuk Lamat is the ONLY character.
I could forgive most other issues with the character if they hadn't given the shaft to the entire rest of the cast. Every single party member in Dawntrail, including yourself, exist solely to nod in approval whenever Wuk Lamat opens her mouth. Dawntrail is unrelenting in its attempts to forcefeed this character to its audience.
It feels like they finished the script, and then everyone sat down, poured over every line, and asked the question "can we have Wuk Lamat say this line instead of [Other Character]?"
You know I think you may have hit something on th head here, take the last zone when you turn off the Endless 'towers' ... it actually took me a bit aback that it was Wuk who was going it not the MC
I agree with this somewhat. I came into the expansion knowing we'd be helping Wuk Lamat, but I didn't realize it was going to be my character just serving as her yes-man and fighting a bunch of her battles for her while everyone praises her for being so brave and strong. I thought we'd get more time to explore Krile's story but even she takes a backseat for most of it. Erenville's bad attitude up til 2 minutes before *spoiler* and having a sudden change of heart for no reason kinda ruined the immersion for me as well. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was Wuk's interference with a certain battle. I'm workin my 4SS off and she just hops in out of nowhere and steals the show because they had to find a way to insert her. it's lazy and made no sense in the situation. Also the Scions had no business being there, we literally could have swapped them for new characters and it would have been fine. Let the Scions pop up once in a while in their own little story bubble later on, or brought in for their expertise on something (like a certain 2 who didn't show up til way later than anticipated) rather than shoe-horning them in for cameo's sake.
I would agree with this it does feel like the Wuk Lamat show feat. everyone else.
the reviews have started coming out. They should have named this one Midtrail. FFXIV is HARD slipping
doesn't help that Wuk Lamat's dub va is very subpar. It's like theyve never raised their voice once in their life. Really ruined the vibe for me on the final boss during the mid cutscene. Almost sounded like it was phoned in.
Just finished the MSQ myself. Overall I had fun BUT compared to the last 2 expansions, I wasn't as emotionally invested at the end. I'd say emotionally wise it's comparable with my experience with the end of the original 2.0 ARR.
For Wuk Lamat, I like the character enough, but I felt she belonged more to a Hildibrand quest line rather than be a main character in the MSQ. She's likable but not someone I can take seriously.
There's lots of little things that could improve upon that could have a significant collective impact on the game. Quite a few things feel slightly off to me of how certain jobs play at the moment. Things that wouldn't take full reworks to fix. Some jobs even already have some of the stuff I'm thinking would be a solution so why are others just feeling not up to date? It is refreshing to have several dungeon encounters that I actually have to think about a bit, and not all of them are just knowing where a hidden aoe is about to pop so I'm really happy with that. There're a few things in the story that have me a little concerned, but I have faith we'll see a bit more of that get addressed in patch content.
As someone who doesn't like the Zero arc... Is it worse?
@@katniss5052 Zero had more substance than DT's MC.
@@pastaboy1338 I liked Zero, but she was the main character and not the WoL. People say Wuk Lamat has now main character syndrom.
@@katniss5052 if you thought Zero's screen time was bad, you would not like WL. She's the epitome of a Mary-Sue lead character or 'I can do no wrong' if that makes sense.
Far worse. And I do not like Zero either. Wuk Lamat is a lot like ARR Alphinaud, except she never fails. The universe conspires to help her every step of the way. And she literally has more lines than every other character in DT combined, or so I heard.
@@TheWickedWizardOfOz1 So more than Krile and Erenville? Oh boy..
Dawntrail was great for about 85% of my run with it. That last 15% however really, really upset me.
Same, the illogical stupidity of Wuk simply calling out somehow being able to undo Shene memories being DELETED and overwritten was complete and utter BS
ah you speak of the CRINGE that just entirely ruins it
Thats the one part where i got annoyed, wuk lamat seemed to stop being naive, only to in the last zone revert to full on naive. its as if whoever wrote the last part only got told how she is supposed to be as a character but didn't get told about the developments before that section
Good summary. Just one thing: I think having an island sanctuary home kind of solved the housing issue for me because I now have a personal space to use. However, I think there needs to be way more options to implement new housing items to make it more personal. So here is my suggestion: Why not having an additional land plot in the Island Sanctuary area where you have your personal house? You should obviously be able to beam there from wherever you are or any big city. But why not use something we already have implemented in the game?
I still hold out hope that we may one day get Burmecians as a race. I can dream
we probablly will lots of references to ff9 in this game expansion and the upcoming fft. Fully expect something around 1 year from now.
Nah, Yoshi-P said no more new races after the femhroth
regarding player housing, instanced housing is probably going to feel so much lacking. not being able to see your neighbor and your own house alongside others hits different than the opposite. ESO and Runescape does this and everyone's houses look pretty much the same and boring too. in runescape, you get inside a portal where everyone also is hanging around afk to go to their instanced housing
Honestly they need to fix both instanced housing (APT/FC rooms) and physical wards. They need to figure out a way to get rid of the workshop from housing and put it somewhere else. Instanced housing would be a great addition but not a replacement for physical wards. It would be great to have for people who want a house and don't want to fight with the housing market or the demo timer. It will never replace the physical wards but it would be something.
How many times have you ever seen neighbors speak to each other even once? What if your neighbor has an ugly/unfurnished house you *don't* want to live next to? Neighborhoods are overrated by people who both don't live in them, and don't consider the multitudes of people who have lost housing lottery over lottery because in the current system, of course they would want a certain plot or place to live in.
@@ralphbeez1411 i never thought about this at all. im playing on JP and rarely you see people's houses have unfurnished lawns, usually it's minimal but that's it. maybe it's a largely NA issue
Wild Star managed the trick. No reason this game couldn't have neighborhoods as well.
Whenever instanced housing discussion rears its head, I just think its funny that even on populated worlds, a solid number of instanced apartments are always available and never taken.
Because a room is not the same thing as a house. You can't decorate the outside.
Instanced housing would be kinda lame thh. I personally love the fact that everybody can see each others houses naturally. Obviously we have different wards so not everyone is in the same neighborhood but nevertheless instanced housing would take that away no?
o/ I did enjoy the overall themes of Dawntrail MSQ but I didn't like the execution at all ! Feels like a lot of wasted potencial, at least for me this felt like the weakest story expansion so far, but when it comes to actual battle content I rank it very high, been having a blast learning the new Extreme Trials ❤❤❤❤❤
It felt less like a ff14 xpac then a wow xpac , where instead of being the hero im a side character to events.
The mixed reception has been awesome. No queue times to get the real work done.
I think we have seen hints of Beast master prospects in the story! I would love if Erenville became a Beastmaster through some type of old magic!
Being on this game since 3.0 Era of Heavensward. I've enjoyed this game. But after EW base story. I've been laxed on coming back. New major number patch comes I do the content and buzzed off for a bit, unless a seasonal event comes. Other than that another number patch comes, rinse n repeat. I haven't bought DT yet. So weird for once in my 14 Career. Seeing none of expansion upgraded things on UI. Since lot of my friends have come back either just seeing how things are or playing the new expansion might drive me to come back. I just have to finish Growing Light Part 2 to get caught up to DT time.
The new revamp/rework/change on Jobs I find interesting on its own. Astro being my 2nd Healer job beside Scholar as my main healer. Surprised on its changes. Being with that class for so long being a PITA on so many changes. I think this is Change #5? I wanna say that job felt better with the revamped card system.
Monk I was enjoying in SB era the most. Granted hell no, not a pro at it. But enjoyed it a lot in that time. But after SB. I haven't played it much due how felt since then. This rework. I felt lot of good changes and kind of Stupid proofed it a bit since I was horrible keeping my stacks/buffs/timing on the job. But something doesn't feel fully right on the flow to me. yeah, I see the beast system n all and how my combos are highlighted what's next n all. But something feels bit off to me. Dunno what.
Dragoon wasn't into that job. Personally, it's my worst job I play and least liked. Telling my friend how they changed Blood of Life. Honestly, I think that's good since it was horrible to get that 1st Burst window for DPS wise in the job.
Still testing the other jobs and see what's changed and how they feel on gameplay or insight what endgame would feel like for them. Might get DT some point if more of my friends get on and want to start doing "Da thing" we used to be on this game.
I haven't finished the story yet but we already choose the Dawnservant, and till this moment I don't feel the money I invested in the expansion was worth the money:(
At least you get new gear, lvl 100, 2 new jobs, new zones and dungeons :)
Honestly I wish they would take resources used to make the msq and explore other avenues. I am totally fine with there not being an msq, leave the story bits for other content like the raids, exploration content etc etc.
The msq honestly is the biggest drag of the mmo and it already told its grand story. Dude even shadowbringers and endwalker dragged super hard. It had big highs but way more drag.
Voice acting is a challenging art form, and different listeners may have varying preferences or reactions to a particular performance. Adjusting to new voices and characters can take time, especially in an established game world.
Most of us are used to higher pitch voices due to anime influences. Naruto, Luffy. etc. are by female VO. Even in English dubs,
I really enjoyed dawntrail had that same feel of ff9 and ffx. The sense of going on new adventures on the new continent with a whole new story that wasnt just ascions again was refreashing after thwir story wrapped up. If dawntrail was a beach episode between major sagas i had fun or if its a stepping point for chapter one of a new saga i look forward to what comes next. Yeah there was some parts that wasnt top tier but from what ive seen ff14 do before by improving on what isnt the best to bring that up to par with thing. I had good fun being more of a passanger for someone elses story and learning the past of krile hopethey they continue hers in the next expansion to reveal more.
MSQ doesn't really bother me, it's a one and done thing, but I'm ready for the real content. The raids, the bozja/eureka like zones, etc.
I'll be really blunt on instanced housing. I am not remotely interested. No one goes to people's island sanctuary's outside of maybe streamers. No one would come visit your instanced house, and I have no drive to decorate things that no one else will ever see - I want something that someone might stumble onto and enjoy, if even for a moment. If that won't happen, then it might as well be a trash can for the random housing items I find. I would hate to never get a new housing district in lieu of instanced housing - which may be the sacrifice we'd be making to have them add a new system like that. That said, yes, I know it's not all about me, but I really question whether there would be any stickiness to the system if it was instanced.
Now, I would *love* to see them rip houses away from people who have claimed entire districts and such. I want everyone who wants a house to be able to have one, but I just don't think ripping community out of the system for individual instances is the way to do it.
That said, if we were *going* to go down this route, don't make it individual. Make it FC based. Make a housing district that an FC can put all their houses in and people can look up those FC districts (and sub districts for larger ones) and visit. In any case we are talking about additional server space and infrastructure, might as well do it right.
Did creative business unit change their name?
yes NB3. No Balls 3.
quazii, i love your point of view here. you're the man. keep doing what you doing.
I always expected a mixed reception. Let's face it . . . The combo hit of Shadowbringers and Endwalker is a HARD act to follow. That aside, having played through the Dawn Trail MSQ . . . Yeah. I agree. It's a mixed bag. The first half was kinda boring and the writing felt kinda lazy while the 2nd half was pretty damned good. I wouldn't have written it like they did. The first half of the game I wanted a swash-buckling adventure and a neck for neck friendly rivalry. I wanted Goonies and Uncharted. Instead I got a one dimensional hero, a cultural lesson, and a conclusion that was so damned obvious I thought for sure they would NEVER actually do it. The second half of the MSQ was much . . . Much better. But I still would have written a few moments a bit differently. Ishikawa stepped aside as lead writer and boy can you feel it.
I'm the opposite I felt the first half of the story was a well paced adventure with characters that took themselves seriously but not end of the world stuff. It's the second part of the story that suffers because the stuff in it requires a full expansion to be fully fleshed out but instead it blows by in less than a half of an expansion and in a rather somber unsatisfying way. For an expansion focused on adventure the first part nailed it, the second part felt like something out of Endwalker.
@@PayAttEx This could be also the way the decide to take the story, depending on which part more of the community liked better. Do we want to make a more light hearted story? Or Do we want to explore darker and deeper subject matters? I personally feel we need to get rid of the scions in the story. Endwalker should have been the end of our adventures with them. I honestly felt they weren't needed at all in this expansion and kinda put them there as a safety net.
@@Timealude39 I'm gonna be honest, I'm tired of the darker tone. I would much rather go Wuk Lamat style but I think I'm in the minority on this one. We've already gone through some pretty dark stuff and I want these games to uplift me, not make me feel like shit.
@@PayAttExBoth are good, I think what the story needs is balance. They have to be able to balance their stories in such a way where there is light in the darkness and darkness in the light.
The real issue is the focus. It’s historically been really bad to have the WoL take a backseat for storytelling purposes even if it’s in effort of setting us up for the future. Storm blood set up the two best expacs ever released. But it also had an extensive non focus on us, the main characters.
@@QuestionQuestionMarkI'll offer a short rebuttal: who was it that Zenos, the main antagonist of Stormblood, was obsessed with? Lyse, or the Warrior of Light?
Who was it that Grynewaht wanted to beat into a pulp the most? Did Fordola only ever interact with Lyse? Did Yotsuyu only ever interact with Gosetsu?
And did Zoraal Ja ever even once speak to or acknowledge the existence of the player character?
I did not like the MSQ they treated Wuk Lamat as if she is the WoL. Center of attention she has cameras on her most of the time. Why was our presence or the scions presence even needed? I held out hope that we get the later half of DT without her and nope…luckily the new trails and dungeons are banger MSQ is only once. However I will never preorder again.
We were sold the idea that it’s grand new adventure for us and enjoy our vacay. Nope this is Wuk Lamar’s grand new adventure. And she will steal the spot light.
It’s sad there were so much potential here…
what i want fixed more than everything is snappier combat - i HATE the server tick. This is the only game i've played that there's such a lag between seeing attacks go off and them actually hitting you. Were so many expansions deep and the devs can't figure out a way to fix this? They were able to fix shields, so I don't think it's such a big lift from this.
I’m looking forward to new story expansions that deal with zeros world, or other sources others plotting things on other worlds, can’t forget Y’shtola is still trying to find a way to traverse to the first 😊
All of the other expansions have felt like they succeeded in giving us a final fantasy theme park. Dawntrail felt like I was tagging along to the theme park to just be left holding the bags while someone else went on all the rides for me.
I hate thinking SE will take away all the wrong lessons from DT criticism instead of understanding nuanced points like this. The very nature of making Wuk Lamat the protagonist of the story and turning the WoL into an ancillary background figure completely mucked up the feel of the narrative.
Without spoiling, I thoroughly enjoyed the expansion. Took my sweet sweet time immersing myself into each zone doing side quest, exploring, doing fates, taking pictures, reading NPC chat bubbles/interacting with NPCs, talking to the cast there around the next quest marker or spread across the land. Truly playing it as I would an FF title of old. That being said, there were very few moments I wish there was a bit more....passion? from a VA & In some points of the writing. BUT, all in all they did a good job as there were other moments you could feel they were passionate towards the given lines.
Minor Spoiler? Below
I went into this expecting to be a Mentor/Adventurer and that's exactly what I got out of it, so I am happy.
I share the same opinions!!
This. I feel like the people who didn't like this expansion's story went into it with the wrong expectations. The WoL is taking a backseat now, it's Wuk Lamat's turn to learn and grow just as we did. We're just there to tip the scales when it's needed.
I also blindly share the same opinion. I think the haters are just completely wrong and should self-delete.
Only TRUE FF fans will appreciate the masterpiece this expansion is.
Until I get my next firmware update indicating what my opinion should be, this expansion is a 24.7/10.
@@MellowFungus You know what's funny? Mocking the opposing argument doesn't disprove them or prove you right. It just makes you look like a jerk.
@@Naoto-kun1085 You clearly aren't picking up half of my criticism here...
Yet I'm supposed to be nice? I genuinely think I'm communicating with someone that's IQ deficient.
But sure, you keep pretending like the FF community isn't "Toxic Positive"
My issue with the MSQ is they just gave us the D team. Every character we actually care about was sidelined or just didnt show up until the ending part. I couldnt bring myself to care about Krile's part because she didnt feel like a part of the story.
Thank you patreons
They did a great job on every aspect except the story. I'm still gonna play, but whether I buy the next expansion hinges on whether or not they acknowledge the feedback about the subpar voice acting and writing.
In my experience the writing is subjective. I've enjoyed myself a lot with it. I know other people who had as well.
I also know people who didn't like it as much.
The voice acting, well I play in Japanese so I wouldn't know.
Let’s be honest lads. In this expansion we really felt like a background character. Not much mentoring going on. Most of the time we just stood there like an extra. And also please explain to me how no one in Tural seems to talk about the final days? Did we not just save the entire world or did we just save everyone except people in Tural?
I think it's good just mid the ideal relaxing adventure really getting know world out side what normal vantasic but need more emotions behide it world build beside it in this case but I'm sure there lot more to come so not to worried
I liked it but I would place it around stromblood. I typically go in games starting at zero with very little expecations. I also knew this was a new arc I curtailed my hype in a massive way. However only big lore people will appreciate where we could be heading to next. Player hosuing would be cool with instance but I want it similar to Island but on a larger scale so you can have a massive house or small with furniture ect
To be honest, Dawntrail is the only expansion that I feel buyer's remorse. You have to inhale a lot of copium just to get through the MSQ.
Without getting into spoiler territory, I thought the story was alright. The pacing early on was rough, and I feel they gave a lot of screen time to my least favorite characters (new and old) while leaving me wanting more time with the characters I enjoy (new and old). But I did find myself generally enjoying it more as it went along.
Personally I'm looking forward to seeing where things go from here. I felt like this was a decent palette cleanser from the old arc, and I'm curious to see where things go from here. The speculation in my FF14 FC discord has been wild.
In regard to battle content, Dawntrail was mostly a win IMO. I dislike a few of the job changes, but for the most part I found jobs I enjoy, and the boss fight design has been great. Healing has felt more engaging, and playing melee in a lot of these fights feel more hectic than similar content from older expansions. Looking forward to this kind of content more than the story this time around.
But perhaps most importantly of all, now that I'm caught up in FF14, I'm free to start my 2nd playthrough of Elden Ring DLC!
for the success of FFXIV they work under budget. It's the cash-cow for Square Enix. But we got extended time between patches. We get "we change this (prev. the trust system, now the gear) ... but only patch by patch). Remembering they said about that hildibrand is cost intense - stuff like that - should not be even said when the game is so successfull ...
My only complaint theres not enough voice over scenes in the story
I actually liked the this as I didn't have to hear Wuk Lamat's terrible VA as much
Thr VA is really bad yea and the English script to is also bad I'm pissed about it I actually finish it and I'm trigger how they did this script of wuk lamat this girl is bad compare to thr new cast
Wuk Lamat was generic Shonen protagonist #infinity, she did grow, but in the end everyone just falls all over her because she has a big heart. I mean, seriously, I didn't hate her, but I was fine leaving her behind when we finished her story, but no, you are promised your own adventure, then you get 1 zone before you are babysitting her again. She was not good enough to justify the sheer amount of her that we had to deal with.
Also her power scaling was just stupid. Even living in a world where determination power ups are cannon, the escalation if her personal fighting ability was just too abrupt and large, even for a Shonen protagonist style character. She gets WAY too strong WAY too fast.
Not to mention we were promised competition with our fellow scions, we got 1 dungeon where they do one thing to obstruct you, then it just becomes a generic they are helping your rival without any direct conflict, it was a wasted opportunity.