My guess is the bosses have different behavior depending on if your solo or a trio. Thus they'd have to make another version of every fight to accomodate duos.
I dont see why fromsoft wwouldn't make this change before release. If they don't, its probably due to some feeling that it will heavily compromise their vision for this game (which I can understand but at the same time, doesn't mean I agree with their decision). Anyaway if they ultimately decide against 2 player.... Seamless coop mod for nightreign when?😁
Because the bosses and the skills of the characters will be designed around the concept of 3 players and how to deal with that specific amount. The Cerberus is a good example, it will probably just be a normal boss for a player that plays solo, but it will divide into 3 when you are doing coop. Making all bosses work both in "lore" (Meaning that the make sense, because a Cerberus should not divide into 2 or 4 different creatures, for example) and making them work as a challenge would require a lot of time. So they just give 1 possible co-op option that they balanced.
@@Voduke789 You didn't. You just talked about scaling of the bosses, not about mechanics or the bosses making sense. You just said "there is no way that makes sense". There is a lots of way that could make sense. If someone has a skill that created wind, other player has a skill that creates fire, they combine both to create a fire tornado (with the boss being weak to that element) and other player repeats the damage of that combo, that would create a strategy that would only work with 3 people, you could think about a lot of possibilitties, and you just said "nah there is no way something like that would be possible"
@ Okay, I think I see what you mean. You are saying that designs like this can only work with 3 players, making the 3 player design worth it. My video asks, "Why design it around 3 people specifically?" after making the argument that people would prefer having the 2-player option. The reason why I said that my video already addressed your comment is because I was looking for a reason why such design is worth it at the cost of a 2 player coop option. I hope that clears things up.
@@Voduke789 Probably because of some random good ideas they had around 3 players, they just decided to use that as the base for the entire game. I honestly don't care that much because I'll probably just play it solo, but even If i understand why some people may be angry at this, I really think that using the cool ideas the may have for 3-coop boss batters is the best option. If the bosses end up not being like this, then it was just a random bad choice by Fromsoft.
I don't if that is good or not, anyway enjoy your trip through RPG experiencia, the miyazaki fanbase awaits and beware with the acid mouth arpies (toxic fandom)
My guess is this is probably a mistranslation, because only having 1 or 3 player modes is so absurd it doesn't sound like something anyone would actually do
I feel like it’s way too early for this criticism There is a reason there is a open beta. I think we need to actually try the game and see whether having duo would break the flow of the game or not. I’m not saying that the current rule of only 3 or solo is great or good but we still didn’t try the game to judge it either
There should just be an option to que up with your friend and a random person or two random people even if you solo qeue. Seems like such an obvious game design choice that it'd be almost amateuristic and crazy if not added.
The harm is that the bosses will be not that balanced for arbitrary amount of players. The wolf from the trailer is the best example. It's not MMO. I aspect some interesting 1v3 combat.
@@alanklm From already has a formula for buffing bosses with multiple players on the field. I don’t know why the game that’s made of reused assets couldn’t just use that formula instead of dismissing bosses as being "imbalanced." Also, enabling 2 players wouldn’t be arbitrary; I’d argue focusing on 3 players instead of 2 is more arbitrary.
@@Voduke789 with all do respect to froms that formula sucks. ER/DS with 1 and many players on the field are 2 completely different games. I could pay 2 times more for the first variant and wouldn't buy the second variant even for 10$.
@ Yeah, I agree. An improved formula would be vastly preferred. That being said, what I meant was that they have the framework already existing to make this happen, so it's not like they NEED to make it 1 or 3 players only.
2:18 Cave of the dead, Iron Passage and the frozen outskirts, were all meant to be a challenge for multiplayer were they could summon in the beginning, and so those are pretty hard being scaled up, yet they are also one of the most hated areas by the community, mainly because people do them solo, sadly, even though what people say about souls players, being too difficult is a deal breaker for most players
I don't see why they would come to the conclusion that exclusively restricting 2 player gameplay is a good idea. When have you ever played a cooperative game that forced you to either play with four/three people or just by yourself? When it comes to multiplayer, Fromsoft just always seems to make weird decisions, man.
My preferred way of playing coop games is with one friend, so this decision will make it a lot more difficult for me to enjoy chill nights of gaming when i have to think of finding a third person who just so happened to have bought the game as well.
Wait what. What possible reason is this necessary? Do they not have scaling for 2 players, are the boss mechanics only made for specifically 3 players? From a game design perspective this is odd and from a marketing perspective this is horrible most people when talking about co op are talking about with one friend this will alienate a lot of people. At least someone will probably mod this out. Fromsoft does not have a good reputation with doing online play/coop.
Btw, souls games being hard (or a lot of things in this games, in general, like the lore) create a lot of comments like the ones you showed in the video Fromsoft won't care that less people buy a game if it still has enough income to make the spent time worth it and if they are doing something that actually shows their vision.
It's strange to hear that game mode forces three players to be here. Why no allow parties of two or four people? That's really strange, especially when coop games have solo play option, where you don't miss on as much content
"1 or 3 players, but not 2 players" is so bizarre
No way its the guy that made pvz videos and i watched them a few years ago
@@tritonwe8937 yeah you wouldnt believe but hes still very active in this community specifcally abd sone others too
I assume it has something to do with how they've scaled the bosses. For example the cerberus boss in the trailer
My guess is the bosses have different behavior depending on if your solo or a trio. Thus they'd have to make another version of every fight to accomodate duos.
but like just make it solo/duo instead of solo/trio?
@Vit-Pokorny A bit late for that.
I think it's funny enough that they should never add the 2 player option.
@@royaloreo1275 Chaotic Evil
I’m pretty sure they said you can play online 3 player with Randoms, so maybe you can do a 2-Man with a random?
tbh that sucks
Would still be better than nothing
id rather duo
I dont see why fromsoft wwouldn't make this change before release. If they don't, its probably due to some feeling that it will heavily compromise their vision for this game (which I can understand but at the same time, doesn't mean I agree with their decision).
Anyaway if they ultimately decide against 2 player.... Seamless coop mod for nightreign when?😁
@@MilkyJoe73 If we have to rely on mods to make the game into what we want, Fromsoftware is going to turn into the next Bethesda!
@@Voduke789 Yh idk if i'd go THAT far LMAOO.
eeshh Starfeild certainly was the game of all time 💀
Because the bosses and the skills of the characters will be designed around the concept of 3 players and how to deal with that specific amount. The Cerberus is a good example, it will probably just be a normal boss for a player that plays solo, but it will divide into 3 when you are doing coop. Making all bosses work both in "lore" (Meaning that the make sense, because a Cerberus should not divide into 2 or 4 different creatures, for example) and making them work as a challenge would require a lot of time. So they just give 1 possible co-op option that they balanced.
Yes, this is a counterargument that I already refuted in the video
@@Voduke789 You didn't. You just talked about scaling of the bosses, not about mechanics or the bosses making sense. You just said "there is no way that makes sense". There is a lots of way that could make sense.
If someone has a skill that created wind, other player has a skill that creates fire, they combine both to create a fire tornado (with the boss being weak to that element) and other player repeats the damage of that combo, that would create a strategy that would only work with 3 people, you could think about a lot of possibilitties, and you just said "nah there is no way something like that would be possible"
@ Okay, I think I see what you mean. You are saying that designs like this can only work with 3 players, making the 3 player design worth it. My video asks, "Why design it around 3 people specifically?" after making the argument that people would prefer having the 2-player option. The reason why I said that my video already addressed your comment is because I was looking for a reason why such design is worth it at the cost of a 2 player coop option. I hope that clears things up.
@@Voduke789 Probably because of some random good ideas they had around 3 players, they just decided to use that as the base for the entire game. I honestly don't care that much because I'll probably just play it solo, but even If i understand why some people may be angry at this, I really think that using the cool ideas the may have for 3-coop boss batters is the best option. If the bosses end up not being like this, then it was just a random bad choice by Fromsoft.
I was not aware that Voduke knew that there are more games than Kingdom Rush. 😮
@sila_asib It's my (early) new years resolution to not be so married to Kingdom Rush anymore ^^
@@Voduke789Dark Souls playthrough when?
I don't if that is good or not, anyway enjoy your trip through RPG experiencia, the miyazaki fanbase awaits and beware with the acid mouth arpies (toxic fandom)
My guess is this is probably a mistranslation, because only having 1 or 3 player modes is so absurd it doesn't sound like something anyone would actually do
I am holding out hope that they have a good reason for the three player co-op
It’s just such a baffling choice
I feel like it’s way too early for this criticism
There is a reason there is a open beta.
I think we need to actually try the game and see whether having duo would break the flow of the game or not.
I’m not saying that the current rule of only 3 or solo is great or good but we still didn’t try the game to judge it either
which kr mod is this?
Even find 1 player already hard and about 2 other that would be insane for me. 😂
There should just be an option to que up with your friend and a random person or two random people even if you solo qeue. Seems like such an obvious game design choice that it'd be almost amateuristic and crazy if not added.
The harm is that the bosses will be not that balanced for arbitrary amount of players. The wolf from the trailer is the best example. It's not MMO. I aspect some interesting 1v3 combat.
@@alanklm From already has a formula for buffing bosses with multiple players on the field. I don’t know why the game that’s made of reused assets couldn’t just use that formula instead of dismissing bosses as being "imbalanced." Also, enabling 2 players wouldn’t be arbitrary; I’d argue focusing on 3 players instead of 2 is more arbitrary.
@@Voduke789 with all do respect to froms that formula sucks. ER/DS with 1 and many players on the field are 2 completely different games. I could pay 2 times more for the first variant and wouldn't buy the second variant even for 10$.
@ Yeah, I agree. An improved formula would be vastly preferred. That being said, what I meant was that they have the framework already existing to make this happen, so it's not like they NEED to make it 1 or 3 players only.
@@Voduke789 I still hope that this will not be a formula, but a boss design as a whole.
2:18 Cave of the dead, Iron Passage and the frozen outskirts, were all meant to be a challenge for multiplayer were they could summon in the beginning, and so those are pretty hard being scaled up, yet they are also one of the most hated areas by the community, mainly because people do them solo, sadly, even though what people say about souls players, being too difficult is a deal breaker for most players
I don't see why they would come to the conclusion that exclusively restricting 2 player gameplay is a good idea. When have you ever played a cooperative game that forced you to either play with four/three people or just by yourself? When it comes to multiplayer, Fromsoft just always seems to make weird decisions, man.
My preferred way of playing coop games is with one friend, so this decision will make it a lot more difficult for me to enjoy chill nights of gaming when i have to think of finding a third person who just so happened to have bought the game as well.
Time to make a new friend
4:00 massive?
you know what else is massive?
@@Blugus1Your mom?
I paint my ship red, but I don't use paint.
Wait what. What possible reason is this necessary? Do they not have scaling for 2 players, are the boss mechanics only made for specifically 3 players? From a game design perspective this is odd and from a marketing perspective this is horrible most people when talking about co op are talking about with one friend this will alienate a lot of people. At least someone will probably mod this out. Fromsoft does not have a good reputation with doing online play/coop.
Are you gonna make more videos about other games or is this like a one time special video only?
Btw, souls games being hard (or a lot of things in this games, in general, like the lore) create a lot of comments like the ones you showed in the video
Fromsoft won't care that less people buy a game if it still has enough income to make the spent time worth it and if they are doing something that actually shows their vision.
Singleplayer it is
My first thought was that there should be the ability to play as pairs
It's strange to hear that game mode forces three players to be here. Why no allow parties of two or four people? That's really strange, especially when coop games have solo play option, where you don't miss on as much content
Wait elder scrolls has multiplayer?
As a mod I know of its presence in both Morrowind and Skyrim. Obviously there’s eso but that’s different
@ThoseOtherJeremysLie and what does it have to do with dark souls
Buddy acting like we souls fans have friends.
Speak for yourself!
Its so peak
ok? and?