Hey Andy, how much liquid do the drink mix packets at Philmont take? 16 oz or 32 oz? I typically take a 16 oz Gatorade for mixed drinks and a BeFree, a smart bottle, and a 2L CNOC bag for water.
We got both sizes, which was confusing to me. Some packets were for 16 oz. And others for 32. Why? I have no idea... I took the 20 oz bottle last time (instead of the 32) to save a fraction of an ounce and was frustrated with having to pour half a packet into my bottle and saving the rest for later... It was a bit of a pain... I started giving away the rest of the packet to my son... Your setup sounds really good and will serve you well. You can get by with the smaller one... But unless it's changed, you will get a few packets (not every day) for 32 oz of water...
I just went back through my info on the drink mixes form 2019 and the lemon lime and fruit gatorades served at lunch were the "32 oz" versions. I think it was done to add lightweight (yet empty) calories to the lunches. I am keto and took all my own food including my own electrolyte additive (Mio) so the Scouts ended up adding my gatorade to their bottles for that extra sickly sweet punch of flavor! Philmont hasn't posted their menus for 2021 yet but I would assume there will be both sizes again. If you end up with a smaller bottle like I did, you can use a gallon zip lock to mix the whole drink in too!
Great video and outstanding suggestions. My Philmont water kit: 3x 1L smart water bottles - one with colored tape around it to indicate it is my smellables bottle. 1x 1L Platypus bag with a drinking tube attached. I carry 2x bottles in the left side lower pocket on my pack, and the other bottle + platy bag in the right lower pocket on my pack. All 4L of water are visible so I can either look back to see how much I have consumed and how much is left... or I can ask the person behind me to tell me. Then I've got a few sizes of Platy bags in the crew water filtration kit. I use both 2L and 4L dirty water bags with the platy gravityworks filter. Those double as our untreated water storage for dry camps. And since they are so light, I toss in a MSR Dromidary bag or two for emergency capacity. I know some folks LOVE the bomb-proof nalgene bottles. And ToTT has a massive Nalgene tree in the store to show off all of the cool bottle designs. But Nalgene's are past their prime. I know people who carried the same smartwater bottles for the entire AT. That is almost 40 times the distance of a Philmont trek. I'm not worried about a smartwater bottle breaking. If it does, I've got the Drom and platy bags in the crew water kit.
Sounds like a great setup. I have become a big fan of the collapsible bags for extra storage for both personal and crew gear. The smartwater and the Gatorade bottles are a cheaper and lighter replacement to the nalgene bottles... They are just a better option... IMHO...
you definitely want a separate secondary bottle , one specific to mixing drinks on. I personally have had issues with single use bottles being repurposed as a trekking bottle on the durability factor.
It's definitely not essential. But it may be worth having one per crew. Most camps have great water options that only need tablets. We came across one camp with an empty water Buffalo and just a muddy creek. So we filtered there. But otherwise we really didn't need it. I definitely wouldn't recommend a bunch per crew...
Collapsable bottles are horrible. They can collapse with pressure change from elevation and open up on your gear and drain out. I use the 1L smart water bottles. For filtering, I went with the Pure Clear Life Survival Straw combined with a CNOC 3 Liter bag with a 28MM opening. This filter can filter out viruses and everything else so there is no need to use those tablets other than having them as a backup. I can use the CNOC 3 Liters for additional water storage to take to a dry camp in combination with my 1L bottles. I went with this because the Katadyn and Sawyer do not do viruses. They specifically state it on their site. Your only options for getting a filter that does is the Pure Clear Life Survival Straw or the Grayl water bottles. I use a squeeze top on my smellable bottle and use a hydration tube on my drinking water bottle. I keep my spare bottles just for storage of water until needed. The hydration tube makes it so that I don't have to reach under a pack cover to get to my water. This is my first trek and I have done a lot of research so far and trials on shakedowns. If someone more experienced has better options, I am all ears, but this is what I have found works best so far from shakedowns. Link to the Pure clear: www.pureclearfilters.co.uk/bottles/pure-clear-life-filter/ Link to the CNOC 28MM bag: cnocoutdoors.com/collections/collecting/products/28mm-vectox-water-container Link to the Hydration tube: www.amazon.com/Srempeom-Hydration-Drinking-Tube-Reservoir/dp/B0CRZDSLS7/ref=sr_1_1?crid=37416H227APJZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hqpt2XembPz4Ga97OmXiXdILvXI4nLUKxc-GOhqq69ILGEiLSo6lCt4CVybd5eQVDJ-8Apw4KG43IGGIafvMiRxNz4W-vp1hkIaG6bkC1Ltr6eYY1QhcC0JaTJRcO4eMZrsw2NLkCgLxDCUiRo1eacYa_Ox1mDXF9Onuo1xsCwzZD9Sgkof1mowCYu9vbkVQZD6WYVJKHQJ97jYQvZobQQsqxTp5cdqeoo5ItNGSnbm8Kpm36OEUBklT9QY-pNwdJvUqY-EcHQTFSGE8Ui4rjYXqy1ch-5qfELAGxqoETjk.AihNeOuRiNLvEU3LoKa13UonyKMIwgyxd92-0tdGDgg&dib_tag=se&keywords=srempeom+hydration+drinking+tube&qid=1713899195&sprefix=srempeom+hydration+drinking+tube%2Caps%2C119&sr=8-1
I think what you have should be fine. I'm not sure that you'll need to worry about viruses as they aren't a common threat in the backcountry in the United States which is why you see so many Sawyers and katadyn filters sold here. They are an issue in many other parts of the world though. In the backcountry, The big issues are going to be Giardia, cryptosporidium, and some bacterias like E coli. What collapsible bottles have you used that are so horrible? I've used the befree from Katadyn as a filter and the hydrapak squeeze bottles for years without issues. I particularly like the hydrapak flask for smell able drink mixes so that it can easily pack down & fit into a bear bag in the evening.
We’re doing 3 liter bladders and the large smart water bottle with the sports top. Also carrying 2 extra liters of collapsible bottles for dry camp days.
@@AndyParrishOutdoors and And now we’re bringing Gatorade bottles for the mix. Will keep a small smartwater for water only at camp after the bear bags get hung. Thanks for your tips!
@@frostriver4547 It worked out well for me. Just make sure you label them so you can tell them apart. I hope you all have an awesome trek. When are you there?
We never needed more than 2 quarts at Philmont and a water filter. There are plenty of water sources around the ranch except on the Tooth of Time. Pack some extra on that climb.
We had one boy go through more than 3 liters between water stops... I refilled him when he ran out out, from my personal supply... Also, I'm guessing you didn't have any dry camps? We had to haul a bunch for that...
Another drawback can be refilling the bladder. I've ran internal bladders, but when I have a full pack, I prefer to throw my camelbak over the outside of my pack.
We are headed there this summer and I hate the taste of the Katadyn tablets so much that I worry I won’t stay hydrated. Do they allow other purification methods? Won’t have time to boil water, steripens are expensive. Aquamira is the liquid version and takes another 5 minutes of sit time. Am I missing another one? If so LMK. Otherwise I will try a steripen but I worry it won’t work well with my Smart bottle. I will bring a Squeeze as well. TIA
The simple solution is use the tablets & bring drink mixes. Gatorade, lemonade, mio's, etc... Anything to mask the flavor. I like the Gatorade zeros, all the sodium & potassium (electrolytes) and they leave out the weight of the sugar so they weigh only 3g per packet. Another option is to look at the aquamira drops... 5 minutes to mix the solution. And then treatment time. Now here is the tip: normal doses kills bacteria in 15 minutes but can take up to 4 hours with cryptosporidium (giardia less), but a double does cuts the time to under 10 minutes for bacteria and 45 minutes for the harder to kill stuff... It is still a safe dosage but you have to see if you can tell a difference with the tablets...
Nice video. That is basically what I've done @ Philmont in years past. I did alter it somewhat in 2019. Instead of the 2L Platypus container, I had two 1-L bottles and used 2-2L Cnoc containers (1 blue & 1 orange) and used them in conjunction w/gravity feed filter w/ a Sawyer Squeeze and the Sawyer coupler. The dirty water went in the orange bag & the clean water went into the blue bag. We set up the system when we got to camp. While we did set up camp, the water was filtered. Periodically, we pour the clean water into our other clean water reservoirs. We had extra Sawyer dirty water bags among the crew that we kept refilling the orange Cnoc bag. Worked like a champ! With this set up, there is no squeezing, pumping, or having to use tablets if you didn't want to do so.
Great info Andy! Are you going in 2021? I already had planned on smart water bottles, 2 liter cnoc and a power aid bottle as my smellable bottle. (I like the shape better than the gateraid bottle.) But since our 2020 trek didn't happen, I might have to get one of the tubes too for 2022.
Got my tube today for the smart water bottles, can't wait to try it out. Quick question, are you seeing any issues with the bite valve? I was thing of modifications like adding the valve they offer or possibly replacing the bite valve with something else with a valve, adding a sternum clip, etc.
Thanks Andy. All very good advice. Proper water planning at Philmont cab be a tricky thing. Platypus also offers a tube that screws on a smartwater bottle, which is what I used on my trek. As for a smellable bottle, I used a 16oz gatorade bottle as it worked better for the drink mix size. One thing that is important to remember is to coordinate your bottle type with your water purification method. If you are using a steripen, you really need to have a nalgene bottle for the pen to fit into the water. Lastly, you should be prepared for extended water carries. On our trek we had two dry camps. One of them unplanned due to a water source being dry when we were there. We had to be able to carry 6plus liters of water to have enough to stay hydrated and cook dinners. It was a good exercise for the Crew Leader to analyze the camps, the mileage, and the meal plan to be able to tell his crew how much water they should plan on. Thanks again for a great video. I really hope that this season at Philmont happens. It would be great to spend some time on trail there with son who just made Eagle and will be going off to college in the fall. In any event, all great info! Be Well Grateful
Thanks for watching and for dropping a comment. I've seen the Platypus tube. I've just not tried it yet. I used the smaller Gatorade bottle as well. I did get some drink mix packets for 16 fl oz and some for a larger size (32 oz I think). Also I liked that the larger bottles could be paired with the water purification tablets if needed (1 tablet per 1 liter). I think both can work very well.
@@AndyParrishOutdoors yes, for philmont only, I have lots of people telling me different things so I would just like someone to clear it up and also tell me about their experience and how you filtered your water.
One oversight perhaps is that none of the alternatives to the nalgene bottle fit with the standard water filter/pump. It's super easy to have it fit right into users nalgenes and pump away.
Canister stoves can work and I understand that they are now carrying some extra fuel for sale in the backcountry stores... Many crews have used the MSR whisperlite stoves (amzn.to/3K2JtqV) as we did on or last trek, but there is a learning curve if you haven't had much experience with white gas... their wide base works well on the larger Philmont pot... if that is what you'll use...
@@AndyParrishOutdoors thank you! I just got voted as my crew’s Youth Advisor, so I’ve got a lot to do now. I plan on looking at the rest of your channel to gain more info, and try to help my crew.
Congrats. After you look through the videos... if you have any questions, let me know. Also there is a great resource on Facebook for youth and adults. facebook.com/groups/455632648316853/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT There are tons of suggestions, we do livestreams too... Lots of experienced Philmont veteran Hikers sharing their knowledge... Check it out and share all of these with your crew... 💪
![[ TEASER ] เงาะป่า - วงL.กฮ. | TMG RECORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M4ObdFfcPww/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Andy, how much liquid do the drink mix packets at Philmont take? 16 oz or 32 oz? I typically take a 16 oz Gatorade for mixed drinks and a BeFree, a smart bottle, and a 2L CNOC bag for water.
We got both sizes, which was confusing to me. Some packets were for 16 oz. And others for 32. Why? I have no idea... I took the 20 oz bottle last time (instead of the 32) to save a fraction of an ounce and was frustrated with having to pour half a packet into my bottle and saving the rest for later... It was a bit of a pain... I started giving away the rest of the packet to my son... Your setup sounds really good and will serve you well. You can get by with the smaller one... But unless it's changed, you will get a few packets (not every day) for 32 oz of water...
I just went back through my info on the drink mixes form 2019 and the lemon lime and fruit gatorades served at lunch were the "32 oz" versions. I think it was done to add lightweight (yet empty) calories to the lunches. I am keto and took all my own food including my own electrolyte additive (Mio) so the Scouts ended up adding my gatorade to their bottles for that extra sickly sweet punch of flavor! Philmont hasn't posted their menus for 2021 yet but I would assume there will be both sizes again. If you end up with a smaller bottle like I did, you can use a gallon zip lock to mix the whole drink in too!
@@gratefulhikes Thanks! I don't mind tossing in a 32 oz lightweight widemouth...I'll plan on it!
@@gratefulhikes Can you share some of you keto food options at Philmont?? Considering keto at Philmont this summer... Thanks.
Great video and outstanding suggestions.
My Philmont water kit:
3x 1L smart water bottles - one with colored tape around it to indicate it is my smellables bottle.
1x 1L Platypus bag with a drinking tube attached.
I carry 2x bottles in the left side lower pocket on my pack, and the other bottle + platy bag in the right lower pocket on my pack.
All 4L of water are visible so I can either look back to see how much I have consumed and how much is left... or I can ask the person behind me to tell me.
Then I've got a few sizes of Platy bags in the crew water filtration kit. I use both 2L and 4L dirty water bags with the platy gravityworks filter. Those double as our untreated water storage for dry camps.
And since they are so light, I toss in a MSR Dromidary bag or two for emergency capacity.
I know some folks LOVE the bomb-proof nalgene bottles. And ToTT has a massive Nalgene tree in the store to show off all of the cool bottle designs. But Nalgene's are past their prime. I know people who carried the same smartwater bottles for the entire AT. That is almost 40 times the distance of a Philmont trek. I'm not worried about a smartwater bottle breaking. If it does, I've got the Drom and platy bags in the crew water kit.
Sounds like a great setup.
I have become a big fan of the collapsible bags for extra storage for both personal and crew gear. The smartwater and the Gatorade bottles are a cheaper and lighter replacement to the nalgene bottles... They are just a better option... IMHO...
I carry 2 1L smart water bottles with sport caps and a 2L CNOC (dirty water) bladder.
That's a great combo set!!!
you definitely want a separate secondary bottle , one specific to mixing drinks on. I personally have had issues with single use bottles being repurposed as a trekking bottle on the durability factor.
I know they issue the tablets for the water but do you think we need a screw on water filter also?
It's definitely not essential. But it may be worth having one per crew. Most camps have great water options that only need tablets. We came across one camp with an empty water Buffalo and just a muddy creek. So we filtered there. But otherwise we really didn't need it. I definitely wouldn't recommend a bunch per crew...
@@AndyParrishOutdoors ok. Thx 🏕️
Collapsable bottles are horrible. They can collapse with pressure change from elevation and open up on your gear and drain out. I use the 1L smart water bottles.
For filtering, I went with the Pure Clear Life Survival Straw combined with a CNOC 3 Liter bag with a 28MM opening. This filter can filter out viruses and everything else so there is no need to use those tablets other than having them as a backup. I can use the CNOC 3 Liters for additional water storage to take to a dry camp in combination with my 1L bottles. I went with this because the Katadyn and Sawyer do not do viruses. They specifically state it on their site. Your only options for getting a filter that does is the Pure Clear Life Survival Straw or the Grayl water bottles.
I use a squeeze top on my smellable bottle and use a hydration tube on my drinking water bottle. I keep my spare bottles just for storage of water until needed. The hydration tube makes it so that I don't have to reach under a pack cover to get to my water.
This is my first trek and I have done a lot of research so far and trials on shakedowns. If someone more experienced has better options, I am all ears, but this is what I have found works best so far from shakedowns.
Link to the Pure clear: www.pureclearfilters.co.uk/bottles/pure-clear-life-filter/
Link to the CNOC 28MM bag: cnocoutdoors.com/collections/collecting/products/28mm-vectox-water-container
Link to the Hydration tube: www.amazon.com/Srempeom-Hydration-Drinking-Tube-Reservoir/dp/B0CRZDSLS7/ref=sr_1_1?crid=37416H227APJZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hqpt2XembPz4Ga97OmXiXdILvXI4nLUKxc-GOhqq69ILGEiLSo6lCt4CVybd5eQVDJ-8Apw4KG43IGGIafvMiRxNz4W-vp1hkIaG6bkC1Ltr6eYY1QhcC0JaTJRcO4eMZrsw2NLkCgLxDCUiRo1eacYa_Ox1mDXF9Onuo1xsCwzZD9Sgkof1mowCYu9vbkVQZD6WYVJKHQJ97jYQvZobQQsqxTp5cdqeoo5ItNGSnbm8Kpm36OEUBklT9QY-pNwdJvUqY-EcHQTFSGE8Ui4rjYXqy1ch-5qfELAGxqoETjk.AihNeOuRiNLvEU3LoKa13UonyKMIwgyxd92-0tdGDgg&dib_tag=se&keywords=srempeom+hydration+drinking+tube&qid=1713899195&sprefix=srempeom+hydration+drinking+tube%2Caps%2C119&sr=8-1
I think what you have should be fine. I'm not sure that you'll need to worry about viruses as they aren't a common threat in the backcountry in the United States which is why you see so many Sawyers and katadyn filters sold here. They are an issue in many other parts of the world though. In the backcountry, The big issues are going to be Giardia, cryptosporidium, and some bacterias like E coli.
What collapsible bottles have you used that are so horrible? I've used the befree from Katadyn as a filter and the hydrapak squeeze bottles for years without issues. I particularly like the hydrapak flask for smell able drink mixes so that it can easily pack down & fit into a bear bag in the evening.
We’re doing 3 liter bladders and the large smart water bottle with the sports top. Also carrying 2 extra liters of collapsible bottles for dry camp days.
That sounds like a pretty sweet setup, if I do say so myself! 👏👏👏
@@AndyParrishOutdoors and And now we’re bringing Gatorade bottles for the mix. Will keep a small smartwater for water only at camp after the bear bags get hung. Thanks for your tips!
@@frostriver4547 It worked out well for me. Just make sure you label them so you can tell them apart.
I hope you all have an awesome trek. When are you there?
@@AndyParrishOutdoors 7/13 - 7/25. Got a great 68 mile trek through most of the major peaks and Ute Park Pass 👍🏼 Baldy, ToT etc
Sounds awesome. Have a great time!
We never needed more than 2 quarts at Philmont and a water filter. There are plenty of water sources around the ranch except on the Tooth of Time. Pack some extra on that climb.
We had one boy go through more than 3 liters between water stops... I refilled him when he ran out out, from my personal supply... Also, I'm guessing you didn't have any dry camps? We had to haul a bunch for that...
Another drawback can be refilling the bladder. I've ran internal bladders, but when I have a full pack, I prefer to throw my camelbak over the outside of my pack.
So True... Refiling is such a pain on trail that we usually only do that in camp before heading out...
We are headed there this summer and I hate the taste of the Katadyn tablets so much that I worry I won’t stay hydrated. Do they allow other purification methods? Won’t have time to boil water, steripens are expensive. Aquamira is the liquid version and takes another 5 minutes of sit time. Am I missing another one? If so LMK. Otherwise I will try a steripen but I worry it won’t work well with my Smart bottle. I will bring a Squeeze as well. TIA
The simple solution is use the tablets & bring drink mixes. Gatorade, lemonade, mio's, etc... Anything to mask the flavor. I like the Gatorade zeros, all the sodium & potassium (electrolytes) and they leave out the weight of the sugar so they weigh only 3g per packet. Another option is to look at the aquamira drops... 5 minutes to mix the solution. And then treatment time. Now here is the tip: normal doses kills bacteria in 15 minutes but can take up to 4 hours with cryptosporidium (giardia less), but a double does cuts the time to under 10 minutes for bacteria and 45 minutes for the harder to kill stuff... It is still a safe dosage but you have to see if you can tell a difference with the tablets...
Nice video. That is basically what I've done @ Philmont in years past. I did alter it somewhat in 2019. Instead of the 2L Platypus container, I had two 1-L bottles and used 2-2L Cnoc containers (1 blue & 1 orange) and used them in conjunction w/gravity feed filter w/ a Sawyer Squeeze and the Sawyer coupler. The dirty water went in the orange bag & the clean water went into the blue bag. We set up the system when we got to camp. While we did set up camp, the water was filtered. Periodically, we pour the clean water into our other clean water reservoirs. We had extra Sawyer dirty water bags among the crew that we kept refilling the orange Cnoc bag. Worked like a champ! With this set up, there is no squeezing, pumping, or having to use tablets if you didn't want to do so.
That is a pretty solid setup. Super easy and convenient to use!
Great info Andy! Are you going in 2021?
I already had planned on smart water bottles, 2 liter cnoc and a power aid bottle as my smellable bottle. (I like the shape better than the gateraid bottle.) But since our 2020 trek didn't happen, I might have to get one of the tubes too for 2022.
In 21 we are headed to Bechtel. I like the shape of the Powerade bottle as well.
Got my tube today for the smart water bottles, can't wait to try it out. Quick question, are you seeing any issues with the bite valve? I was thing of modifications like adding the valve they offer or possibly replacing the bite valve with something else with a valve, adding a sternum clip, etc.
Thanks Andy. All very good advice. Proper water planning at Philmont cab be a tricky thing.
Platypus also offers a tube that screws on a smartwater bottle, which is what I used on my trek. As for a smellable bottle, I used a 16oz gatorade bottle as it worked better for the drink mix size.
One thing that is important to remember is to coordinate your bottle type with your water purification method. If you are using a steripen, you really need to have a nalgene bottle for the pen to fit into the water.
Lastly, you should be prepared for extended water carries. On our trek we had two dry camps. One of them unplanned due to a water source being dry when we were there. We had to be able to carry 6plus liters of water to have enough to stay hydrated and cook dinners. It was a good exercise for the Crew Leader to analyze the camps, the mileage, and the meal plan to be able to tell his crew how much water they should plan on.
Thanks again for a great video. I really hope that this season at Philmont happens. It would be great to spend some time on trail there with son who just made Eagle and will be going off to college in the fall. In any event, all great info!
Be Well
Grateful
Thanks for watching and for dropping a comment. I've seen the Platypus tube. I've just not tried it yet. I used the smaller Gatorade bottle as well. I did get some drink mix packets for 16 fl oz and some for a larger size (32 oz I think). Also I liked that the larger bottles could be paired with the water purification tablets if needed (1 tablet per 1 liter). I think both can work very well.
Could you maybe do a filter video?
Just talking about the different options?
@@AndyParrishOutdoors yes, for philmont only, I have lots of people telling me different things so I would just like someone to clear it up and also tell me about their experience and how you filtered your water.
One oversight perhaps is that none of the alternatives to the nalgene bottle fit with the standard water filter/pump. It's super easy to have it fit right into users nalgenes and pump away.
Chris, Which pump do you use that fits on to the Nalgenes?
a lot of msr pumps do that. we used them backin my troop. @@AndyParrishOutdoors
Wonderful video! Heading to Philmont Summer of 2022. You have certainly given me something to think about. Thank you!
Glad I could help get the wheels turning... 😉
Hi, Andy, do you have recommended stove for Philmont? I have canister stove, but not sure how many canisters will be needed. Thank you 😊
Canister stoves can work and I understand that they are now carrying some extra fuel for sale in the backcountry stores... Many crews have used the MSR whisperlite stoves (amzn.to/3K2JtqV) as we did on or last trek, but there is a learning curve if you haven't had much experience with white gas... their wide base works well on the larger Philmont pot... if that is what you'll use...
Good stuff Andy
Thanks for watching! Was there anything new in these ideas that might Influence your water kit setup?
1 liter nalgene bottles don't fit in any Atmos style osprey backpack side pouches
good info. thanks for watching!
Bro I go to Philmont in a month, and we haven’t talked about that yet. Thank you for going over this
I hope it gave you something to consider... Have a great Trek!
@@AndyParrishOutdoors thank you! I just got voted as my crew’s Youth Advisor, so I’ve got a lot to do now. I plan on looking at the rest of your channel to gain more info, and try to help my crew.
Congrats. After you look through the videos... if you have any questions, let me know.
Also there is a great resource on Facebook for youth and adults.
facebook.com/groups/455632648316853/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT
There are tons of suggestions, we do livestreams too... Lots of experienced Philmont veteran Hikers sharing their knowledge... Check it out and share all of these with your crew... 💪