Very true, and that's a terrific detector and vision tool. But again come midgame, the opponent has at least a few missileturrets if they're smart, preventing you from getting to places you need to see. Not to even mention pros have settings (as this game illustrates easily) to see invisible units easily if you're looking for them. Comsats allow you to see Anywhere, Anytime, with a wide range and into the dozens if you've been smart and made enough orbitals. Observers = good. Coms = Better
Nah, keep the scans as detection, but not vision. So they can see cloaked/burrowed/hallucinated units where the Terran has vision, but do not supply vision at all. Also make loading Medivacs work one-at-a-time like unloading does. While we're at it, make marines unable to shoot air, and give that ability to marauders.
I didn't say MULEs were OP. For their town hall, Toss gets Chronoboost, which is faster production. Zerg gets Inject, which is faster production, and Terran gets MULEs, which are faster production (more minerals = more production). However, these things all don't matter when both armies are maxed out, and the player is just pooling resources. Terrans get to switch their respective production bonus to unlimited vision and detection. Zerg and Protoss can't do that.
if you look at that aspect only, yes. but this is a game with a lot of depth, therefore toss has free life(shields) and zerg has free units etc. all in all its fair, if you use your advantages you dont have to complain about the others..
I didn't say anything about scanning in the early game. Just the late game. Apparently Photon Overcharge doesn't provide detection. I could have sworn it did, but I'm a Zerg, and there's not much point in burrowing units that close to a Nexus, so it doesn't really matter for me.
Pretty sure Queens and Nexi don't have detection abilities. Photon Overcharge is a Mothership Core ability, not Nexus ability, in case you want to argue that. For detection, Toss has cannons (immobile), Observers (fragile), Oracles (expensive and not full-time), and Photon Overcharge (very long cooldown). Zerg has Overseers (really good, but expensive), and Spores (semi-immobile). Terran gets turrets (immobile), Ravens (costly), and scans (INFINITE RANGE, HUGE AREA, FREE, UNDESTROYABLE). Hmmm...
I meant to say that mules are necessary to a terran's economy as injects are necessary to the economy of a zerg. So scans are not free AT ALL, if anything they're more expensive than 240 minerals as scanning twice in a row in the early game can cost you a game at high levels. And since that's the only alternative terran has to a super expensive raven, I would not define it op. I didn't know that photon overcharge granted detection, are you sure?
HTs AND infestors. And mutas can't clump when HTs are around, as well as marines/zerglings when banelings are present... and we get to see brilliant splitting.
Widow Mines are OP, the next patch nearly halves the splash radius. As for beating Zerg without them, tanks can take out banelings like nobody's business. It's extremely hard for a Zerg to get to Hive tech in a ZvT, so Vipers wouldn't come out for a long time, if ever. If you're really afraid of Vipers abducting your tanks, though, mix a few Ghosts in with your army. Why do people think "Oh it's in the game, so it must be balanced"? Might I remind you that Warhounds were in the game?
No, Terran is not OP, but I will admit the numerous and wide vision from scans from even the middle of the game onward can be a bit of an advantage. Every other race puts something at risk to see that much that quickly. When you have that many orbitals, it really does become unlimited at some point.
HT/Colossi combo is even with Ghost/Viking combo. It's all about who has the better micro. The Ghosts cannot approach the HT with the range 9 Colossi protecting them, and if Vikings get too close, Storm eats them up. And Ghosts are the ONLY Terran unit that is good vs mass HTs.
yes he is..there were so many times where he could have attacked much earlier and prob won the game, but for some reason he just lets taeja get more expands and map control =/
"It used to be in Starcraft 1 that you could combine two high templar to make an archon. And now in Starcraft II you can combine a high templar and a dark templar to make an archon (which really should not be possible because dark templar do not have psionic energy/power) but in the future you will be able to combine a high templar with a ghost." WHAATT??!!! is that in multi-player HD? and what exactly would you call that? A superhuman?
Again with the early game. I'm talking about the late game. If you want to talk about the early game, Terran is completely balanced economically, and scans aren't any problem. Early game Terran is OP because of the marines. Ever seen Bomber kill a Zerg's third, then kill some drones at the natural with just a handful of marines? Double that many Lings couldn't do that (same price), not even triple, or in fact any amount at all, seeing as the Terran just presses L and his CC is invincible to them
Terran is OP, don't deny it. Next patch nerfs the Widow Mine hard, significantly buffs DT speed, and increases burrowed Roach speed, too. It'll make Terran worse and Toss and Zerg better, which is something we need. You can see it on the SC2 forum. Scans don't cost 240 minerals, the Orbital is like "Would you like 240 minerals BEYOND what your opponent can get by this time, or vision and detection anywhere on the map BEYOND what your opponent can get?" It's a choice, not a price.
+ he lost cause he was unable to defend the drops, he should have left mother core at main and army at 3rd to photon drops in main while warping for defense.
That's the point: to force micro instead of clumping clumping clumping. HTs aren't already able to clump because of EMP, so why should the rest of the spellcasters?
Protoss player should have build some Tempest ... maybe then he could deal with the nukes as well (killing the ghosts quick enough) and therefore haven't lost his 3rd Nexus several times in a row.. Great cast, great Game *Thumbs Up* :)
I feel like HD is one of the best casters considering that hes got more emotion in his voice. I dislike Husky for that since hes totally emotionless when the battle begin. He just becomes so fucking fast that i dont understand jack shit of what hes saying and it doesn't build up that climax-ish emotion. But i really like some of his jokes and his series like BLH, IMBA leagues. Their all fun to watch and I love that part of him.
A nexus never becomes a planetary lol, it's more of a photon cannon. And you have medivacs to heal and transport marines etc. Also you can fly your rax to a better position if walking bothers you :P Not sure who you're ranting to, but isn't the best thing about SC2 that those races are so mechanically different?
Scans op in the late game? Zerg can get a changeling in a terran's base for free whenever they want and overseers are cheap as hell in the late game. Protoss has cheap invisible flying detection to any part of the map except maybe the main base of the terran if he has enough turrets, but in the late game that's irrelevant. Marines op? Bomber can kill a hatch with marines because he's GOOD. Since zerg has the most mobile army in the game, with enough skill they can stop any attack to a hatch.
maybe it is a little bit, but to say that its oh so unfair isnt true. if you play 5% better than your enemy you still gonna win. also you can counter everything terran does, even when its a little harder. a LITTLE. i you get into a game already raging just because your enemy is terran its clear that you gonna have a bad time. just focus on yourself and use the things YOU have.
Yeah, Bomber's one of the best in the world, but marines shouldn't be capable of that, regardless of who's controlling them. Zerg doesn't have the most mobile army, bio is more mobile than pure Muta. You can see cloaked units shimmer, and pro Terrans scan and snipe Observers. Changelings are a joke in the pro scene. They get killed as soon as they get within range of a unit. You can't kill a scan without taking out a base.
MULEs aren't necessary at all. They let Terrans keep 20-30 SCVs less than they need to keep up with the other races economically. And when both players have 5000k minerals or more and are maxed out, MULEs, injects, and Chronos all become absolutely useless, because you don't need more mining and can't use production. A scan is at the cost of a MULE. When MULEs are worthless, scans cost a worthless unit. Like trading dirt for diamonds, when your maxed out, scans are free.
NO tempest would have been a waste of resources, he had no air upgrades vikings would have sniped him before tempest could have DPS down a ghost. That game was lost as soon as the Terran got over 15 Ghosts and 12 vikings. no amount of Templar could have defended that unless Terran mis micros.
they really need to nerf orbital command. they need to give terran a cheap form of mobile detection similar to the observer or overseer. the scans are just retarded. never at any time did taeja not know where rains army was or its positioning cause he would just spam scan over the whole map. really not fair that terran get easy mode button, while toss and zerg actually have to spend money and micro on detection.
Zerg is OP vs zerg banelings are to strong protoss are OP vs zerg force fields storms collosus, terran is OP vs protoss vikings shut down collosus ghost vs zelot archons and high templar.. oh yeah everything is balanced since everything is OP
lol ! your reasoning falls easily for its own argument. What about chrono then, would you like 50% MORE UNITPRODUCTION or 50% MORE PROBEPRODUCTION, "beyond what your opponent can get"? And how about instantly turning your nexus into a PLANETARY, for free? And why cant marines and marrauders burrow to heal them selves??? Or at least recover some shields or something.. Or just spawn from a supply depot ANYWHERE on the map instead of having the long walk from the base... "IT'S SO OP!!!"
Let me recap: protoss can chrono boost probes to get MORE than terran in the early game. zerg with larva inject can make 8-9 drones at a time in the early game. how the heck is terran supposed to keep up in worker count in the early game? MULES! before you answer this comment read it CAREFULLY
I haven't watch a starcraft cast in 2 days!!! thank youuu
25 scvs gone but the mules make up for it no problem
Very true, and that's a terrific detector and vision tool. But again come midgame, the opponent has at least a few missileturrets if they're smart, preventing you from getting to places you need to see. Not to even mention pros have settings (as this game illustrates easily) to see invisible units easily if you're looking for them. Comsats allow you to see Anywhere, Anytime, with a wide range and into the dozens if you've been smart and made enough orbitals. Observers = good. Coms = Better
Nah, keep the scans as detection, but not vision. So they can see cloaked/burrowed/hallucinated units where the Terran has vision, but do not supply vision at all. Also make loading Medivacs work one-at-a-time like unloading does. While we're at it, make marines unable to shoot air, and give that ability to marauders.
I didn't say MULEs were OP. For their town hall, Toss gets Chronoboost, which is faster production. Zerg gets Inject, which is faster production, and Terran gets MULEs, which are faster production (more minerals = more production). However, these things all don't matter when both armies are maxed out, and the player is just pooling resources. Terrans get to switch their respective production bonus to unlimited vision and detection. Zerg and Protoss can't do that.
if you look at that aspect only, yes. but this is a game with a lot of depth, therefore toss has free life(shields) and zerg has free units etc. all in all its fair, if you use your advantages you dont have to complain about the others..
I didn't say anything about scanning in the early game. Just the late game.
Apparently Photon Overcharge doesn't provide detection. I could have sworn it did, but I'm a Zerg, and there's not much point in burrowing units that close to a Nexus, so it doesn't really matter for me.
Pretty sure Queens and Nexi don't have detection abilities. Photon Overcharge is a Mothership Core ability, not Nexus ability, in case you want to argue that. For detection, Toss has cannons (immobile), Observers (fragile), Oracles (expensive and not full-time), and Photon Overcharge (very long cooldown). Zerg has Overseers (really good, but expensive), and Spores (semi-immobile). Terran gets turrets (immobile), Ravens (costly), and scans (INFINITE RANGE, HUGE AREA, FREE, UNDESTROYABLE). Hmmm...
I meant to say that mules are necessary to a terran's economy as injects are necessary to the economy of a zerg. So scans are not free AT ALL, if anything they're more expensive than 240 minerals as scanning twice in a row in the early game can cost you a game at high levels. And since that's the only alternative terran has to a super expensive raven, I would not define it op.
I didn't know that photon overcharge granted detection, are you sure?
"Two are better than one"
Well according to the Archon... one is better than two.
HTs AND infestors.
And mutas can't clump when HTs are around, as well as marines/zerglings when banelings are present... and we get to see brilliant splitting.
This game was awsome bro!!!!!!
Widow Mines are OP, the next patch nearly halves the splash radius.
As for beating Zerg without them, tanks can take out banelings like nobody's business. It's extremely hard for a Zerg to get to Hive tech in a ZvT, so Vipers wouldn't come out for a long time, if ever. If you're really afraid of Vipers abducting your tanks, though, mix a few Ghosts in with your army.
Why do people think "Oh it's in the game, so it must be balanced"? Might I remind you that Warhounds were in the game?
Feedback needs to be area and have the same area dimensions as EMP, to force ghosts to stay far apart.
HD was wondering why Rain pulled back his motherSC at the start of the game, he did
that because he didnt want to loose it to an early viking.
No, Terran is not OP, but I will admit the numerous and wide vision from scans from even the middle of the game onward can be a bit of an advantage. Every other race puts something at risk to see that much that quickly. When you have that many orbitals, it really does become unlimited at some point.
HT/Colossi combo is even with Ghost/Viking combo. It's all about who has the better micro. The Ghosts cannot approach the HT with the range 9 Colossi protecting them, and if Vikings get too close, Storm eats them up. And Ghosts are the ONLY Terran unit that is good vs mass HTs.
amazing PvT. worth a watch
Toss's whole deathball is the easy mode button
Have a good next game!!!!!&have a awsome time!!!!
yes he is..there were so many times where he could have attacked much earlier and prob won the game, but for some reason he just lets taeja get more expands and map control =/
"It used to be in Starcraft 1 that you could combine two high templar to make an archon. And now in Starcraft II you can combine a high templar and a dark templar to make an archon (which really should not be possible because dark templar do not have psionic energy/power) but in the future you will be able to combine a high templar with a ghost." WHAATT??!!! is that in multi-player HD? and what exactly would you call that? A superhuman?
Again with the early game. I'm talking about the late game. If you want to talk about the early game, Terran is completely balanced economically, and scans aren't any problem. Early game Terran is OP because of the marines. Ever seen Bomber kill a Zerg's third, then kill some drones at the natural with just a handful of marines? Double that many Lings couldn't do that (same price), not even triple, or in fact any amount at all, seeing as the Terran just presses L and his CC is invincible to them
Terran is OP, don't deny it. Next patch nerfs the Widow Mine hard, significantly buffs DT speed, and increases burrowed Roach speed, too. It'll make Terran worse and Toss and Zerg better, which is something we need. You can see it on the SC2 forum.
Scans don't cost 240 minerals, the Orbital is like "Would you like 240 minerals BEYOND what your opponent can get by this time, or vision and detection anywhere on the map BEYOND what your opponent can get?" It's a choice, not a price.
+ he lost cause he was unable to defend the drops, he should have left mother core at main and army at 3rd to photon drops in main while warping for defense.
That's the point: to force micro instead of clumping clumping clumping. HTs aren't already able to clump because of EMP, so why should the rest of the spellcasters?
Protoss player should have build some Tempest ... maybe then he could deal with the nukes as well (killing the ghosts quick enough) and therefore haven't lost his 3rd Nexus several times in a row..
Great cast, great Game
*Thumbs Up* :)
I feel like HD is one of the best casters considering that hes got more emotion in his voice. I dislike Husky for that since hes totally emotionless when the battle begin. He just becomes so fucking fast that i dont understand jack shit of what hes saying and it doesn't build up that climax-ish emotion. But i really like some of his jokes and his series like BLH, IMBA leagues. Their all fun to watch and I love that part of him.
Not to mention a scan has a theoretical cost of 240 minerals.
25:02 that for some reason sounds more painful than it should...
How can you possibly win this as a protoss?
Methinks Taeja wants to turn this Rain into precipitation! ;)
To those who don't get this: search "LeVar Burtoncruiser."
A nexus never becomes a planetary lol, it's more of a photon cannon. And you have medivacs to heal and transport marines etc. Also you can fly your rax to a better position if walking bothers you :P
Not sure who you're ranting to, but isn't the best thing about SC2 that those races are so mechanically different?
I think you kind of missed the entire point - Rain GG'd because he lacked detection.
i gotta like paul newmans comments
What a constructive comment.
i don't understand why did rain has to wait and until taeja take the high ground then fight?
27:38 final battle.... which is also the only battle.
yea protoss did not make one zealot after the 3 minute mark.
23:20 High Templar + Ghost? HD, that's a sin! You speak dangerous words. What would our parents think??
I completely agree
observers are mobile, fast, invisible, small, cheap and has an upgrade to become faster.
Blizzard just finished testing one and rejected it. Instead they chose to give it tiered damage, decreasing outwards. Still in testing though.
you mean you would have to make a good mixture of hellbats and marines? it's called army composition... Welcome to zerg!
550 minerals for an occasional 10-15 second scan is free?
Scans op in the late game? Zerg can get a changeling in a terran's base for free whenever they want and overseers are cheap as hell in the late game. Protoss has cheap invisible flying detection to any part of the map except maybe the main base of the terran if he has enough turrets, but in the late game that's irrelevant. Marines op? Bomber can kill a hatch with marines because he's GOOD. Since zerg has the most mobile army in the game, with enough skill they can stop any attack to a hatch.
maybe it is a little bit, but to say that its oh so unfair isnt true. if you play 5% better than your enemy you still gonna win. also you can counter everything terran does, even when its a little harder. a LITTLE. i you get into a game already raging just because your enemy is terran its clear that you gonna have a bad time. just focus on yourself and use the things YOU have.
you say it.
it is funny that terran can just use tier one units all game and still slap the piss out of anything
Pretty much.
Yeah, Bomber's one of the best in the world, but marines shouldn't be capable of that, regardless of who's controlling them. Zerg doesn't have the most mobile army, bio is more mobile than pure Muta. You can see cloaked units shimmer, and pro Terrans scan and snipe Observers. Changelings are a joke in the pro scene. They get killed as soon as they get within range of a unit. You can't kill a scan without taking out a base.
How do youv even be thst good bro
technically you only lose income not actual minerals
EIGHTHD!!!!!
Comsats are so annoying that if Teaja was playing beside me, I would punch his face out of frustration. Guy never lets you come from the weak side.
Terran is op against zerg, Widow mines destroy zerg like it's nothing TvZ is MMW, TvP is fine, Taeja got too many ghost's for Rain to deal with.
MULEs aren't necessary at all. They let Terrans keep 20-30 SCVs less than they need to keep up with the other races economically. And when both players have 5000k minerals or more and are maxed out, MULEs, injects, and Chronos all become absolutely useless, because you don't need more mining and can't use production. A scan is at the cost of a MULE. When MULEs are worthless, scans cost a worthless unit. Like trading dirt for diamonds, when your maxed out, scans are free.
please..please!!..give the toss a repear function ^^ bet most of the fans would oversuse it and have no cash left for a army the first times
I'm getting deju vu watching this... is this an old game?
NO tempest would have been a waste of resources, he had no air upgrades vikings would have sniped him before tempest could have DPS down a ghost.
That game was lost as soon as the Terran got over 15 Ghosts and 12 vikings.
no amount of Templar could have defended that unless Terran mis micros.
23:54 cool moment
I am countying on you to have a good game
FOOOOOOR!!
emp is overpowered...
they really need to nerf orbital command. they need to give terran a cheap form of mobile detection similar to the observer or overseer. the scans are just retarded. never at any time did taeja not know where rains army was or its positioning cause he would just spam scan over the whole map. really not fair that terran get easy mode button, while toss and zerg actually have to spend money and micro on detection.
C'mon... They are counters...
Zerg is OP vs zerg banelings are to strong protoss are OP vs zerg force fields storms collosus, terran is OP vs protoss vikings shut down collosus ghost vs zelot archons and high templar.. oh yeah everything is balanced since everything is OP
Rain is such a frustrating player to watch...
SIDTHXX!!
Personel cloakning
TUURRRDD!!
Starcraft becoming more liberal! Queen and Queen, Zealot and Zergling, Templar and Ghost. Spread the message guys
Ok ur next.
Taeja wins
Haha GG!!
FIVDFTH!!!!
Lol not everything is op, mines just made TvZ one sided.
FUUURST!
SECUND!!!
lol ! your reasoning falls easily for its own argument. What about chrono then, would you like 50% MORE UNITPRODUCTION or 50% MORE PROBEPRODUCTION, "beyond what your opponent can get"? And how about instantly turning your nexus into a PLANETARY, for free? And why cant marines and marrauders burrow to heal them selves??? Or at least recover some shields or something.. Or just spawn from a supply depot ANYWHERE on the map instead of having the long walk from the base... "IT'S SO OP!!!"
Let me recap: protoss can chrono boost probes to get MORE than terran in the early game. zerg with larva inject can make 8-9 drones at a time in the early game. how the heck is terran supposed to keep up in worker count in the early game? MULES!
before you answer this comment read it CAREFULLY
Spoiler alert!!
umad noob?
AIFTHD
Stop terran 'reproduction' lol. 25:02
Oh look... the boring 200 vs 200 Protoss Terran dance.... Seriously Blizzard, seriously...
rain sucks..
it was so booring game