God given laws sometimes feel oppressive because we can't meet them on our own. But God-given laws also come with God-given help, and that's a crucial difference.
This is 100% true. I had an interim pastor and she (yes, she) said all this. That Jesus is more of an example, that "sin" is just forgetting how loved we are, she LOVED Richard Rohr, she was a universalist, and as you can imagine, was super progressive on every social and political issue. Just like Alisa said, she would occasionally overtly deny Christian theology, but more frequently, she would use Christian language to make questionable claims, and it was unclear what she meant by them. It was her insidious way of casting doubt upon the faith. Now, our Church has a permutant pastor and he seems orthodox, but there are individuals in the Church who still are progressive. I love Alisa Childers because she understand progressive Christianity better than most evangelicals. Thank you, Alisa, for exposing the dangers of it!
Having journeyed a path from absolute veracity of the orthodox Christian faith and sliding through the emerging church and their apologists, and recovering a biblically grounded belief, and re-embracing the truth and the key fundamental doctrines essential to the faith, I found this episode very good and it articulated my journey quite well. Thank you for posting this interview and for the great content from Dr. Kruger. I so appreciate this.
Thank you for articulating what I've been observing among my progressive Christian friends. The saddest part is watching those who were (or are) in Christian ministry lead others off the train tracks with them. Everything you discussed herein made SO much sense. Keep up the great - and unique - work! The Body of Christ needs you.
Thanks Alisa. As a survivor of Progressive Christianity in Australia, you have answered many questions for me. Thanks also for the info on R. Rohr, who frequents our district and speaks at one of our sister Churches. Some of our congregations are battling to survive against this (UCA Australia) Just been through a really tough few months of criticism for being too fundamentalist and not preaching nice sermons, They played the wounded party while being the attackers, portraying me as being overly dogmatic. They insisted their take on the Bible was right and went after my character. it was as if you were describing my Church. Blessings Peter
Ignor the attacks and tread on in bibical truth. Paul had worse things done to him by the judaizers and heretics within. Cull them from your church before the disassembly begins. I was asked to leave a church for asking questions. The last question was why he allowed a women to preach to the congregation in his many absences. That was the straw that broke their back because their progressive theology can't be questioned. I was culled.
www.youetube.com/watch?V=YjrxHqNy5CQ&t=66c The resurrection account harmonizes perfectly. The question is, why is it important for you to disprove something you don't believe in? My book can put JESUS on the cross to the day and hour saying "it is finished" 483 years (69 weeks) after the decree in Dan. 9:25 was issued by using NASA 5 millennium lunar eclipses. This was supernaturally confirmed to me with my wife the witness to the verification. So if you think a cut and past job from an antichrist 10 dollar novel that you base your GOD view on is going to shake my confidence your greatly mistaken. Good day✝❤
AMEN sister Alisa Childers Progressive Christianity isn't true it's dangerous as it skirts The Law and The Gospels to create a self righteous, hypocritical man centered Scripturally inaccurate view of God's Word, Character and Will for having created us in His own Image and likeness. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't. I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict. Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers. Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word. Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
Thank you for your podcasts. They’re so helpful for me. I prayed for you this morning, that the Lord would continue to make you “bold and stouthearted” (Ps 138:3), especially as your book is launched soon.
In the Church of England (C of E) the label they use to differentiate between the ‘progressive’ church and the church that follows traditional Christian doctrines is the term ‘inclusive’. I think they mean to say “we love everybody” when they claim to be inclusive. Having listened to this programme I realise there is a lot more implied when they use that term.
Pharisees ultimate problem Jesus was trying to reveal to them was their unbelief and not wanting Jesus as Savior or Lord. They were looking for a king to deliver them from Rome. Similar to progressive thinkers. I agree with your podcast.
I think Mike Winger was spot on with his analysis. He said the progressives are much closer to the sadducees than pharisees. Jesus agreed with thr pharisees on basic doctrine, but disagreed on their application and interpretation. Whereas the sadducees would come up with trick questions to disprove the doctrine altogether much like how the progressives find a "flaw" in the Bible and use that to discredit it altogether.
STRAIGHT FACTS HE'S A REAL ONE FOR THAT 👊😂. AMEN sister Alisa Childers Progressive Christianity isn't true it's dangerous as it skirts The Law and The Gospels to create a self righteous, hypocritical man centered Scripturally inaccurate view of God's Word, Character and Will for having created us in His own Image and likeness. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't. I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict. Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers. Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word. Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
That's a fascinating idea about original sin and the claims about us simply being separated by shame. Interestingly enough, we are full of shame and feel unworthy to stand in the presence of God. Shame affects everything we do. However, the reason we are full of shame isn't because we invented it arbitrarily but because it entered into us after original sin. Shame exists as a side effect of our poor choices and fallen nature.
I dislike the commercial side of the activity of a lot of Christians who oppose the dangerous cult of "progressive Christianity" (all the merch, the books, the promotion of each other's seminars and blogs and podcasts), and especially the softness with which they handle some bad actors which at some point they were close to... But these conversations, the discussions promoted by Alisa, Kruger et all are very important to help Christians at large understand the type of games being played by the deconstructers and progressives. Great, great conversation. Both of you and very much up to date 4 years later.
Would you consider JH to be saved. Can she be saved and still change her stance on what she believes?I'm a little confused about this. Thank you in advance.
from what I read the Pharisee Theology was not the problem and it was not something Jesus was concerned about. Paul himself said that he was a pharisee. You don't see Jesus chasing Sadducee saying that your theology is wrong . Rather Jesus was concerned of how they conducted themselves in the day to day living. The do set in the seat of Moses so listen to them but don't do what they do. Enjoyed the talk it was great.
The scripture that comes to mind when I read this question is 2 Pe 2:22 "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. " The idea here isn't that they engaged in the exact same behavior as before, although some certainly have, but that the focus of their life has become the same worldly appeasements and values as before they met Christ. Others probably were never saved.
Speaking of deconversions, Alisa, have you ever heard of Julie Anne Smith and her blog Spiritual Sounding Board? I can't recall which denomination or sect she left, but she had made claims of church abuse in the past. The web address is: www.spiritualsoundingboard.com. An affiliated site is: www.thewartburgwatch.com.
I remember this site during the #metoo era as they were posting numerous accusations. While some abuses may be true, there was a sense of giddiness every time an accusation was made regardless of evidence. The comment section was "Fundie this" and "Fundies that." The animosity was strong. What irked me, was seeing otherwise orthodox Christians use it as a source. "Fundies" are fun to hate. Certainly their are legalistic and abusive churches, but they get lumped in with true churches that adhere to biblical standards of morality. As a pastor once observed, one of the most common reasons college students abandon the faith of their families is to live a life of licentuousness. If there is no God or His words are not accurately recorded, we become our own lawmakers and gods.
The doctrine of original sin is not essential. All ppl except 1 will have sinned. That is all that is necessary. federal headship does not convey full, ontologically robust culpability like the mere fact that I sin and that is why I am guilty. This also removes the mystery around first sin, whether human or angelic. We also do not have to (avoid) consigning infants and fetuses to hell on this view, it seems to me.
'Original sin' wasnt mentioned in the gospel,and the jews who wrote the old testament had no conception of original sin,and didnt see the creation story this way.Original sin was a much later doctrine,in vented by Augustine. We arent responsible for the sins of Adam or others,we are responsible for OUR sins.
Almost. Second temple Jews certainly saw things like I'll health and misfortune to be somewhat attributed to the sins of your father etc. So there is a link there. And the letters certainly give credence to the parallel between Adam and jesus 'from one man sin entered the world and brought death and then from one man (jesus) death was defeated.
It was invented much later? Where are you getting this from??? First off, Jews absolutely had a conception of inherited sin. This is why Jeremiah prophesied that the Messiah would relinquish us from the sins of our fathers. In Genesis 3, God tells Adam that man now knows of good and evil. The Bible literally teaches that Adam and Even brought this knowledge of good and evil to all men. Then in Romans, Paul teaches: *Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned* _Romans 5:12_ Death came to all because all sin. But all sin traces back to the act that let sin enter the world. Again, that is the doctrine right there in the Biblical text. And even IF you reject all of that, the book of Esdras (used by the early church) clearly reveals that the doctrine of original sin predates Augustine by centuries. *For the first Adam, burdened with an evil heart, transgressed and was overcome, as were also all who were descended from him. Thus the disease became permanent; the law was in the hearts of the people along with the evil root; but what was good departed, and the evil remained.* _2 Esdras __3:21__-22_
Dismaying how the guest conflates the doctrine of original sin with individual guilt for sin, as if to deny corporate guilt in Adam means all of our individual sins will have never occurred. Otherwise, many good points.
I think his point is that they reject original sin to deny the idea that humans are fundamentally bad, not good. Original sin isn't so much about Adam's sin as much as it's about the idea that we are born with knowledge of and a propensity to sin. That second part is what progressives reject which makes salvation unimportant.
I give up on god , if he cant make his wishes better known, so people get the one message and not all mixed up . For someone so powerful ,he has made right mess.
I understand where you are coming from but, I think you can not blanket progressive christianity. Just like you don’t want them to blanket all fundamentalism. I reject a lot of what I was taught growing up, but I had to because I’ve always had same sex attraction. So I had to think about myself and circumstances differently from an early age. It didn’t add up what I was being taught. My church was not kind to people with same sex attractions. Preacher called them faggots from the pulpit. But despite all of this debate and judgement on both sides, I still believe in Jesus death and resurrection for our sins. I feel his presence, and I know I am saved. It think you can have extremes on both sides between fundamentalism and progressive christianity. Not everyone is going to believe like you. Remember you are thinking about these things from the lens you developed growing up. I just pray for everyone and that they find their way to Jesus. You can not force your beliefs on to people and calling them crazy doesn’t help!
It is possible to have the Right Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in tongues) and the RIGHT doctrine AT THE SAME TIME ! Ask me any question any time concerning this. I will be glad to prove it to you with Gods own standard of proof. By the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established. Unless of course you are a sensor like the leftists are?
In Christianity I found too many mysteries. I think is very reasonable if Pastors are Agnostic. The second return of Jesus will clarifies all the doubts
AMEN sister Alisa Childers Progressive Christianity isn't true it's dangerous as it skirts The Law and The Gospels to create a self righteous, hypocritical man centered Scripturally inaccurate view of God's Word, Character and Will for having created us in His own Image and likeness. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't. I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict. Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers. Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word. Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
What a shame that the church should argue so much and have this ‘ us and them ‘ look at the galaxy and the universe, do you think that the God who created this wants us to spend so much time analysing our ‘ beliefs ‘ we should be united in acceptance of each other what a waste of time
Interesting comment...I have a huge burden for Catholics, and this states their assumption exactly: The Catholic Church was handed down to Peter by Christ Himself, and IS that orthodox church. On the other hand, attacking this assumption is usually a mistake. Catholics carry a love for God that is self-encompassing, and that is also usually conflated with a love of the Church. I've found that simply asking a Catholic if they'd like to talk to God directly has a huge impact. Their priest will usually say that a person's prayers carry much less weight if done without the intercession of Mary or this saint/that saint.
@@brianetheredge7323 the realization that the church is invisible, and therefore every saved believer is the original church is sometimes hard for people to understand, but it's an epiphany.
If you were a progressive you should know they dont call it deconversion , thats atheism. Deconstruction is the proper term. Either this is dishonesty or thats youre experience
Abortion is interfering with the birth process designed by Jesus Christ. The birth process originated with Jesus Christ; it was designed by Him! Interfering with it at any point goes against that God given design and terminates a soul for Him. Psalms 139: You have Searched Me and Know Me …12 Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You. 13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.… Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5 King James Version There is nothing reproductive in abortion! “Pro-Choice is Pro-Abortion!!!!!” Those that are for abortion are already here. - Ronald Reagan Apparently, their mothers didn't believe in it. Abortion is not healthcare when one of the persons involved ends up dead. Terminating a baby in the womb is eliminating a child of God. MARRIAGE ACCORDING TO JESUS Christ 1 Man + 1 Woman = 1 Flesh = Marriage 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have, ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For, this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. - Matthew 19:4-6 KJV For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor 5: 10 KJV
Original sin is not from Jesus. Every child was born sinless. I spoke with Rabbi, they say disagree with the stupid doctrine. God is merciful. If Jesus die for our sin, all Christians would have bad personal or become criminals, because the sin has been paid by Jesus.
Was David wrong to say that he was "brought forth in iniquity" and that "there is none who does good"? Was Paul also wrong to teach the depravity of man?
Since AC clearly doesn’t understand progressive Christianity here is a summary A few years ago, the Barna Research Group conducted a study of young people asking them what they think of when they hear the word “Christian.” The top three answers were, “anti-gay,” “exclusive,” and “judgmental.” If that’s what Christianity were all about, I wouldn’t want any part of it either. Happily, it isn’t. Over the past 20 years, there has been a growing movement to reclaim Christianity from those who’ve distorted it into something that Jesus and his earliest followers wouldn’t easily recognize - conservative evangelicalism and fundamentalism. The movement has emerged on two fronts, roughly simultaneously. One wing comes from the mainline Protestant and Catholic Churches that, due to the shift from modern era mindsets into postmodern ones, have shifted from liberal theology to “progressive” Christianity. The other wing comes from young people within the Evangelical communities who are questioning and redefining their tradition and is known as “emergent” Christianity. Combined, these movements are a new Reformation. Scholar Dr. Phyllis Tickle asserts that every 500 years, Christianity has experienced such renewal movements. We’re due for another one - and it’s happening now. Emergent Christian pastor and author Doug Pagitt suggests that human society is now entering the “Inventive Age” and this correlates with reformation in the religious realms. I’m a part of this reformation. As a proponent of progressive Christianity I’ve come to question some of the things that have been written about it. The description of progressive Christianity on the website Religioustolerance.org conveys several misnomers. It begins by stating, “progressive Christianity represents the most liberal wing of Christianity, just as fundamentalist Christianity is the most conservative.” I challenge that statement in two ways. Progressive Christianity is influenced by a postmodern mindset and liberal Christianity is a product of the modern era. Progressive Christianity is a post-liberal phenomenon. Moreover, people are increasingly not seeking to be convinced by logical or rhetorical evidence in order to come to Christ. They sense that faith isn’t something that one comes to through debate, data, or arguments. Instead, they realize that faith comes by noticing the lives of people who have faith and then living into it themselves. Today’s generation embraces a more nuanced, experiential, paradoxical, mystical, and relational approach to faith and spirituality. We like it relevant, down-to-earth, and real. This is the same approach that the early Christians experienced and understood. What’s referred to as “progressive Christianity” isn’t really new. It’s a reformation of the Church to its earlier, pre-modernist and pre-Constantinian roots. Rather than focusing on exclusion, judging, and damning, progressive Christians reclaim our original values of inclusion, grace, acceptance, and unconditional love. In reality, it is progressive Christianity that is conservative - conserving what made Christianity such a beautiful gift to the world in the first place. Progressive and emergent Christianities are trees that have been growing parallel to each other - largely without much awareness or inter-action. It may be fair to say that progressive Christians are more unanimously pro-LGBTQI while emergents are of mixed minds on those matters. However, we’re now in a “mash-up” culture where the lines are increasingly being blurred and emergent Christian writer Brian McLaren appears to now be identifying as a progressive Christian. The recent Wild Goose Festival held in North Carolina was a national gathering bringing together leaders and participants from both traditions.
How do you reconcile your "reform" movement with St. Jude's command to "contend for the faith once for all delivered unto the saints?" Also, I would argue that we are not by any means in a "post modern" era but merely a Late Modern era that began in the 1960s. The only difference I can see between "progressive" or "post modern" Christianity and the Modernism that split apart so many Protestant denominations 100 years ago approximately is the same difference that exists between the secular liberalism of a hundred years ago and the secular liberalism or "progressivism" of today. This is just Christians assimilating to the dominant secular culture, much as the Jews were assimilating to pagan Greek culture in Maccabean times. In both cases, cultural assimilation serves as a stepping stone to total apostasy.
People you must have the old also. The new brings in the old. Early christianity is this meaning former or ancient which is the old. Written the old testament. What is written does not ask of YOUR testament. What is written is the testimony of Jesus Christ. Still in desolation you are so far from God.
It’s hilarious to hear these people go on about logic considering how illogical Christianity really is. 2 plus 2 equals 4 they say, but Jesus could be a man and a god at the same time when the OT clearly says God in NOT A MAN! But the Bible is without errors, huh???
If god is the ultimate expression of love......why did he murder hundreds of thousands of people? Or....was he not always the ultimate expression of love...but now he is?
God said do not make graven images. Then commands the making of the covenant box, with Images of creatures on the lid. God said thou shall not kill, the later commanded his Israelites massacre their neighbors. And he applies death as penalty for so many "sins". God said thou shall not steal. then tells his people to "Plunder" their Canaanite neighbors. So what's the point of obeying laws that are not even followed by the ones who write them?
John 1:1-14. 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. 9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. The Word, which was God, and was in the beginning with God, became flesh and dwelt among us. Here John describes Jesus as God, and he even records Jesus’s claim of Godhood later on in John 8:58. Jesus says to the Jews “before Abraham was, I am.” Not “I was,” “I am.”
*And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”* _Mark 14:62_ Anyone who has ever read the Old Testament knows that these are divine titles in Jewish... hence why the Priest accuses Jesus of blasphemy and has him sentenced to death.
Also, the church fathers knew this was confusing and made it stupid clear in their letters. *There is ONE Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; GOD EXISTING IN FLESH; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible - even Jesus Christ our Lord.* _The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians: Chapter 7. Beware of false teachers_ Ignatius tells us that God is One, and Jesus is simultaneously of God and God in flesh. This is literally the doctrine of the trinity written 200 years before the Council of Nicea.
Prove it because The Gospels clearly state that Jesus The Christ of Nazareth (Yeshua Hamashiac in Hebrew) is GOD ALMIGHTY MANIFEST IN FLESH TO OFFER HIMSELF FOR OUR SINS To REPAYMENT.
Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” - St. John 20:28 - 29 If you read the Ante Nicene fathers, you will see that they explicitly affirm the deity of Christ, so clearly this doctrine did not begin at the First Ecumenical Council! Indeed, that council was only called because the priest (English for presbyter) Arius of Alexandria had begun teaching that Christ was a created being rather than coequal in divinity with the Father. Thus, it was Arius who had DEmoted Christ, and THAT was the source of controversy that led to the Council. The Latin word Trinity (Trinitas) also appears in a written document of Tertullian in the late second century, and at least 20 years earlier, Patriarch St. Theophilus of Antioch, writing in Greek, used the word Trias. Furthermore, every feature of the Trinitarian dogma ("teaching") can be found in the canonical scriptures, just not all gathered into a single sentence or paragraph.
How is he a liar? You state something as fact but you don't have any proof. Anyone can claim a person is liar. We are living in a culture of finger wagging and name calling without any substance to the claim.
God given laws sometimes feel oppressive because we can't meet them on our own. But God-given laws also come with God-given help, and that's a crucial difference.
This is 100% true. I had an interim pastor and she (yes, she) said all this. That Jesus is more of an example, that "sin" is just forgetting how loved we are, she LOVED Richard Rohr, she was a universalist, and as you can imagine, was super progressive on every social and political issue. Just like Alisa said, she would occasionally overtly deny Christian theology, but more frequently, she would use Christian language to make questionable claims, and it was unclear what she meant by them. It was her insidious way of casting doubt upon the faith. Now, our Church has a permutant pastor and he seems orthodox, but there are individuals in the Church who still are progressive. I love Alisa Childers because she understand progressive Christianity better than most evangelicals. Thank you, Alisa, for exposing the dangers of it!
My question would be why did you stay in a church with a female pastor?
@@deborahparrish2201 we no longer do, she was temporary. My church is split between biblical and liberal and I want to stay and fight, not flee
Having journeyed a path from absolute veracity of the orthodox Christian faith and sliding through the emerging church and their apologists, and recovering a biblically grounded belief, and re-embracing the truth and the key fundamental doctrines essential to the faith, I found this episode very good and it articulated my journey quite well. Thank you for posting this interview and for the great content from Dr. Kruger. I so appreciate this.
Thank you for articulating what I've been observing among my progressive Christian friends. The saddest part is watching those who were (or are) in Christian ministry lead others off the train tracks with them. Everything you discussed herein made SO much sense. Keep up the great - and unique - work! The Body of Christ needs you.
I've been listening to a few of your videos lately and I want to commend you for doing a fine job of presenting Christianity.
Thanks Alisa. As a survivor of Progressive Christianity in Australia, you have answered many questions for me. Thanks also for the info on R. Rohr, who frequents our district and speaks at one of our sister Churches. Some of our congregations are battling to survive against this (UCA Australia) Just been through a really tough few months of criticism for being too fundamentalist and not preaching nice sermons, They played the wounded party while being the attackers, portraying me as being overly dogmatic. They insisted their take on the Bible was right and went after my character. it was as if you were describing my Church. Blessings Peter
Ignor the attacks and tread on in bibical truth. Paul had worse things done to him by the judaizers and heretics within. Cull them from your church before the disassembly begins. I was asked to leave a church for asking questions. The last question was why he allowed a women to preach to the congregation in his many absences. That was the straw that broke their back because their progressive theology can't be questioned. I was culled.
www.youetube.com/watch?V=YjrxHqNy5CQ&t=66c
The resurrection account harmonizes perfectly. The question is, why is it important for you to disprove something you don't believe in?
My book can put JESUS on the cross to the day and hour saying "it is finished" 483 years (69 weeks) after the decree in Dan. 9:25 was issued by using NASA 5 millennium lunar eclipses.
This was supernaturally confirmed to me with my wife the witness to the verification.
So if you think a cut and past job from an antichrist 10 dollar novel that you base your GOD view on is going to shake my confidence your greatly mistaken.
Good day✝❤
@Noel Hausler What time is your recruitment office open?
Oh, Peter, I’m so sorry. God be with you, sir.
AMEN sister Alisa Childers Progressive Christianity isn't true it's dangerous as it skirts The Law and The Gospels to create a self righteous, hypocritical man centered Scripturally inaccurate view of God's Word, Character and Will for having created us in His own Image and likeness. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
Thank you for your podcasts. They’re so helpful for me. I prayed for you this morning, that the Lord would continue to make you “bold and stouthearted” (Ps 138:3), especially as your book is launched soon.
In the Church of England (C of E) the label they use to differentiate between the ‘progressive’ church and the church that follows traditional Christian doctrines is the term ‘inclusive’. I think they mean to say “we love everybody” when they claim to be inclusive. Having listened to this programme I realise there is a lot more implied when they use that term.
Pharisees ultimate problem Jesus was trying to reveal to them was their unbelief and not wanting Jesus as Savior or Lord. They were looking for a king to deliver them from Rome. Similar to progressive thinkers. I agree with your podcast.
I think Mike Winger was spot on with his analysis. He said the progressives are much closer to the sadducees than pharisees. Jesus agreed with thr pharisees on basic doctrine, but disagreed on their application and interpretation. Whereas the sadducees would come up with trick questions to disprove the doctrine altogether much like how the progressives find a "flaw" in the Bible and use that to discredit it altogether.
Dr. Kruger sounds like Jeff Goldblum. I just had to chime in with this very important comment.
Oh, you are so right. LOL
Wow. He does!
STRAIGHT FACTS HE'S A REAL ONE FOR THAT 👊😂. AMEN sister Alisa Childers Progressive Christianity isn't true it's dangerous as it skirts The Law and The Gospels to create a self righteous, hypocritical man centered Scripturally inaccurate view of God's Word, Character and Will for having created us in His own Image and likeness. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
One word, - Excellent!
Progressive Christians are SURE that the Kingdom of God is the heart of the gospel.
Alisa, thank you so much for this podcast! It is incredibly helpful. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
The key is whether you find peace in what you believe. Finding fault with others doesn't do that but it may seem to.
That's a fascinating idea about original sin and the claims about us simply being separated by shame. Interestingly enough, we are full of shame and feel unworthy to stand in the presence of God. Shame affects everything we do. However, the reason we are full of shame isn't because we invented it arbitrarily but because it entered into us after original sin. Shame exists as a side effect of our poor choices and fallen nature.
As Greg Koukl says in his book, “The Story of Reality”.... the reason we feel so guilty is because we are.
So incredibly helpful - ordered the book - and so true - thank you
Christianity doesn't progress. God is the same today, yesterday, and forever! The word of our God will stand FOREVER!
This sounds like the stories my friends who are decieved.
I dislike the commercial side of the activity of a lot of Christians who oppose the dangerous cult of "progressive Christianity" (all the merch, the books, the promotion of each other's seminars and blogs and podcasts), and especially the softness with which they handle some bad actors which at some point they were close to...
But these conversations, the discussions promoted by Alisa, Kruger et all are very important to help Christians at large understand the type of games being played by the deconstructers and progressives.
Great, great conversation. Both of you and very much up to date 4 years later.
How do you have good behavior without right believing?
God bless this ministry 🙏🙏🙏
Would you consider JH to be saved. Can she be saved and still change her stance on what she believes?I'm a little confused about this. Thank you in advance.
I am sad that I am just now listening to this!
Great warning. I just got the book for my son
Great talk. I have learned so much. ⚘
from what I read the Pharisee Theology was not the problem and it was not something Jesus was concerned about. Paul himself said that he was a pharisee. You don't see Jesus chasing Sadducee saying that your theology is wrong . Rather Jesus was concerned of how they conducted themselves in the day to day living. The do set in the seat of Moses so listen to them but don't do what they do.
Enjoyed the talk it was great.
Thank you so much!
24:50 - "Who do you say that I am?" ( Mic drop)
You have expressed into words my thinking about deconversion.
if someone turns to Progressive Christanty out of Historic Christianty, would they ever have really been saved?
The scripture that comes to mind when I read this question is 2 Pe 2:22 "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. " The idea here isn't that they engaged in the exact same behavior as before, although some certainly have, but that the focus of their life has become the same worldly appeasements and values as before they met Christ. Others probably were never saved.
I believe that is a real possibility. They have been led astray but they have not been lost from the Heavenly Fathers hand.
Did God really say that? It was meant to destroy the church from the beginning. Satan is always prowling.
Nailed it
Exactly...BE more like Jesus
Brokenness is a real thing. This is such nonsense, but like a car wreck...I can’t look/listen away.
Thank you!
Progressive Christianity is not Christianity
Love it, love it, love it! :)
G-d help us all in obeying All of G-d's commandments
Y is the o missing?
The lack of good theology is a big problem.
Speaking of deconversions, Alisa, have you ever heard of Julie Anne Smith and her blog Spiritual Sounding Board? I can't recall which denomination or sect she left, but she had made claims of church abuse in the past. The web address is: www.spiritualsoundingboard.com. An affiliated site is: www.thewartburgwatch.com.
I remember this site during the #metoo era as they were posting numerous accusations. While some abuses may be true, there was a sense of giddiness every time an accusation was made regardless of evidence. The comment section was "Fundie this" and "Fundies that." The animosity was strong. What irked me, was seeing otherwise orthodox Christians use it as a source.
"Fundies" are fun to hate. Certainly their are legalistic and abusive churches, but they get lumped in with true churches that adhere to biblical standards of morality. As a pastor once observed, one of the most common reasons college students abandon the faith of their families is to live a life of licentuousness. If there is no God or His words are not accurately recorded, we become our own lawmakers and gods.
The doctrine of original sin is not essential. All ppl except 1 will have sinned. That is all that is necessary. federal headship does not convey full, ontologically robust culpability like the mere fact that I sin and that is why I am guilty. This also removes the mystery around first sin, whether human or angelic. We also do not have to (avoid) consigning infants and fetuses to hell on this view, it seems to me.
'Original sin' wasnt mentioned in the gospel,and the jews who wrote the old testament had no conception of original sin,and didnt see the creation story this way.Original sin was a much later doctrine,in vented by Augustine.
We arent responsible for the sins of Adam or others,we are responsible for OUR sins.
Almost. Second temple Jews certainly saw things like I'll health and misfortune to be somewhat attributed to the sins of your father etc. So there is a link there. And the letters certainly give credence to the parallel between Adam and jesus 'from one man sin entered the world and brought death and then from one man (jesus) death was defeated.
It was invented much later? Where are you getting this from???
First off, Jews absolutely had a conception of inherited sin. This is why Jeremiah prophesied that the Messiah would relinquish us from the sins of our fathers.
In Genesis 3, God tells Adam that man now knows of good and evil. The Bible literally teaches that Adam and Even brought this knowledge of good and evil to all men.
Then in Romans, Paul teaches:
*Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned* _Romans 5:12_
Death came to all because all sin. But all sin traces back to the act that let sin enter the world. Again, that is the doctrine right there in the Biblical text.
And even IF you reject all of that, the book of Esdras (used by the early church) clearly reveals that the doctrine of original sin predates Augustine by centuries.
*For the first Adam, burdened with an evil heart, transgressed and was overcome, as were also all who were descended from him. Thus the disease became permanent; the law was in the hearts of the people along with the evil root; but what was good departed, and the evil remained.* _2 Esdras __3:21__-22_
@@sivad1025 I'm saying that the Jews,the authors of the torah,did NOT have any conception of original sin.Most rabbis dont accept original sin.
@@keithrogers4170 What do you mean by original sin...?
@@bengough6772 That is not the same thing as "original sin." You don't understand the doctrine. No offense.
Dismaying how the guest conflates the doctrine of original sin with individual guilt for sin, as if to deny corporate guilt in Adam means all of our individual sins will have never occurred. Otherwise, many good points.
I think his point is that they reject original sin to deny the idea that humans are fundamentally bad, not good. Original sin isn't so much about Adam's sin as much as it's about the idea that we are born with knowledge of and a propensity to sin. That second part is what progressives reject which makes salvation unimportant.
I give up on god , if he cant make his wishes better known, so people get the one message and not all mixed up . For someone so powerful ,he has made right mess.
Great conversation! Background music... really distracting tho.
I understand where you are coming from but, I think you can not blanket progressive christianity. Just like you don’t want them to blanket all fundamentalism. I reject a lot of what I was taught growing up, but I had to because I’ve always had same sex attraction. So I had to think about myself and circumstances differently from an early age. It didn’t add up what I was being taught. My church was not kind to people with same sex attractions. Preacher called them faggots from the pulpit. But despite all of this debate and judgement on both sides, I still believe in Jesus death and resurrection for our sins. I feel his presence, and I know I am saved. It think you can have extremes on both sides between fundamentalism and progressive christianity. Not everyone is going to believe like you. Remember you are thinking about these things from the lens you developed growing up. I just pray for everyone and that they find their way to Jesus. You can not force your beliefs on to people and calling them crazy doesn’t help!
Deconversion? Thought that was called backsliding! This is the great falling away to another Jesus, another Spirit, another Gospel.
Have you in fact converted to Augustine Calvinism?
It is possible to have the Right Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in tongues) and the RIGHT doctrine AT THE SAME TIME
! Ask me any question any time concerning this. I will be glad to prove it to you with Gods own standard of proof. By the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established. Unless of course you are a sensor like the leftists are?
This is another gospel! So, they are not Christians and we have to snatch them from the fire!
Who is Hatmaker? Let’s get back to Spong. All of these people are evidently afraid to even go there.
In Christianity I found too many mysteries. I think is very reasonable if Pastors are Agnostic. The second return of Jesus will clarifies all the doubts
It should be "deeds AND creeds", not "deeds over creeds"! Orthodoxy AND orthopraxy"!
Goehly...? Who does he keep referring to?
AMEN sister Alisa Childers Progressive Christianity isn't true it's dangerous as it skirts The Law and The Gospels to create a self righteous, hypocritical man centered Scripturally inaccurate view of God's Word, Character and Will for having created us in His own Image and likeness. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
Why should I care what you say Michael...if you’re not God?
These are not commandments. These are philosophical statements. It would help to know the difference.
What a shame that the church should argue so much and have this ‘ us and them ‘ look at the galaxy and the universe, do you think that the God who created this wants us to spend so much time analysing our ‘ beliefs ‘ we should be united in acceptance of each other what a waste of time
"Can two walk together except they be agreed?" - Amos 3:3
:cough: Orthodoxy, the original church is still alive and well today. :cough:
Interesting comment...I have a huge burden for Catholics, and this states their assumption exactly: The Catholic Church was handed down to Peter by Christ Himself, and IS that orthodox church.
On the other hand, attacking this assumption is usually a mistake. Catholics carry a love for God that is self-encompassing, and that is also usually conflated with a love of the Church. I've found that simply asking a Catholic if they'd like to talk to God directly has a huge impact. Their priest will usually say that a person's prayers carry much less weight if done without the intercession of Mary or this saint/that saint.
@@brianetheredge7323 the realization that the church is invisible, and therefore every saved believer is the original church is sometimes hard for people to understand, but it's an epiphany.
The faith in Jesus, according to the Bible, is the original faith, and it is still alive today.
@@FalconOfStorms The invisible church is in heaven, the visible church is on earth.
@@michaels4255 non-believers aren't the body of Christ.
If you were a progressive you should know they dont call it deconversion , thats atheism. Deconstruction is the proper term. Either this is dishonesty or thats youre experience
I like Ham sandwiches!
Abortion is interfering with the birth process designed by Jesus Christ.
The birth process originated with Jesus Christ; it was designed by Him! Interfering with it at any point goes against that God given design and terminates a soul for Him.
Psalms 139: You have Searched Me and Know Me
…12 Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You. 13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.…
Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5 King James Version
There is nothing reproductive in abortion!
“Pro-Choice is Pro-Abortion!!!!!”
Those that are for abortion are already here. - Ronald Reagan
Apparently, their mothers didn't believe in it.
Abortion is not healthcare when one of the persons involved ends up dead.
Terminating a baby in the womb is eliminating a child of God.
MARRIAGE ACCORDING TO JESUS Christ 1 Man + 1 Woman = 1 Flesh = Marriage
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have, ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For, this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. - Matthew 19:4-6 KJV
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor 5: 10 KJV
Original sin is not from Jesus. Every child was born sinless. I spoke with Rabbi, they say disagree with the stupid doctrine.
God is merciful. If Jesus die for our sin, all Christians would have bad personal or become criminals, because the sin has been paid by Jesus.
Was David wrong to say that he was "brought forth in iniquity" and that "there is none who does good"? Was Paul also wrong to teach the depravity of man?
Since AC clearly doesn’t understand progressive Christianity here is a summary A few years ago, the Barna Research Group conducted a study of young people asking them what they think of when they hear the word “Christian.” The top three answers were, “anti-gay,” “exclusive,” and “judgmental.”
If that’s what Christianity were all about, I wouldn’t want any part of it either.
Happily, it isn’t. Over the past 20 years, there has been a growing movement to reclaim Christianity from those who’ve distorted it into something that Jesus and his earliest followers wouldn’t easily recognize - conservative evangelicalism and fundamentalism. The movement has emerged on two fronts, roughly simultaneously. One wing comes from the mainline Protestant and Catholic Churches that, due to the shift from modern era mindsets into postmodern ones, have shifted from liberal theology to “progressive” Christianity. The other wing comes from young people within the Evangelical communities who are questioning and redefining their tradition and is known as “emergent” Christianity. Combined, these movements are a new Reformation.
Scholar Dr. Phyllis Tickle asserts that every 500 years, Christianity has experienced such renewal movements. We’re due for another one - and it’s happening now. Emergent Christian pastor and author Doug Pagitt suggests that human society is now entering the “Inventive Age” and this correlates with reformation in the religious realms.
I’m a part of this reformation. As a proponent of progressive Christianity I’ve come to question some of the things that have been written about it. The description of progressive Christianity on the website Religioustolerance.org conveys several misnomers. It begins by stating, “progressive Christianity represents the most liberal wing of Christianity, just as fundamentalist Christianity is the most conservative.” I challenge that statement in two ways. Progressive Christianity is influenced by a postmodern mindset and liberal Christianity is a product of the modern era. Progressive Christianity is a post-liberal phenomenon.
Moreover, people are increasingly not seeking to be convinced by logical or rhetorical evidence in order to come to Christ. They sense that faith isn’t something that one comes to through debate, data, or arguments. Instead, they realize that faith comes by noticing the lives of people who have faith and then living into it themselves. Today’s generation embraces a more nuanced, experiential, paradoxical, mystical, and relational approach to faith and spirituality. We like it relevant, down-to-earth, and real. This is the same approach that the early Christians experienced and understood. What’s referred to as “progressive Christianity” isn’t really new. It’s a reformation of the Church to its earlier, pre-modernist and pre-Constantinian roots. Rather than focusing on exclusion, judging, and damning, progressive Christians reclaim our original values of inclusion, grace, acceptance, and unconditional love. In reality, it is progressive Christianity that is conservative - conserving what made Christianity such a beautiful gift to the world in the first place.
Progressive and emergent Christianities are trees that have been growing parallel to each other - largely without much awareness or inter-action. It may be fair to say that progressive Christians are more unanimously pro-LGBTQI while emergents are of mixed minds on those matters. However, we’re now in a “mash-up” culture where the lines are increasingly being blurred and emergent Christian writer Brian McLaren appears to now be identifying as a progressive Christian. The recent Wild Goose Festival held in North Carolina was a national gathering bringing together leaders and participants from both traditions.
How do you reconcile your "reform" movement with St. Jude's command to "contend for the faith once for all delivered unto the saints?" Also, I would argue that we are not by any means in a "post modern" era but merely a Late Modern era that began in the 1960s. The only difference I can see between "progressive" or "post modern" Christianity and the Modernism that split apart so many Protestant denominations 100 years ago approximately is the same difference that exists between the secular liberalism of a hundred years ago and the secular liberalism or "progressivism" of today. This is just Christians assimilating to the dominant secular culture, much as the Jews were assimilating to pagan Greek culture in Maccabean times. In both cases, cultural assimilation serves as a stepping stone to total apostasy.
People you must have the old also. The new brings in the old. Early christianity is this meaning former or ancient which is the old. Written the old testament.
What is written does not ask of YOUR testament. What is written is the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Still in desolation you are so far from God.
Did you know the Son of God is the Pineal Light?
Phil Langdon ...mystical gobbledygook
Alisa, sometimes when you read the steps, you read so fast that it's almost impossible to understand what you're saying. Slow down.
It’s hilarious to hear these people go on about logic considering how illogical Christianity really is. 2 plus 2 equals 4 they say, but Jesus could be a man and a god at the same time when the OT clearly says God in NOT A MAN! But the Bible is without errors, huh???
If god is the ultimate expression of love......why did he murder hundreds of thousands of people? Or....was he not always the ultimate expression of love...but now he is?
God said do not make graven images. Then commands the making of the covenant box, with Images of creatures on the lid. God said thou shall not kill, the later commanded his Israelites massacre their neighbors. And he applies death as penalty for so many "sins". God said thou shall not steal. then tells his people to "Plunder" their Canaanite neighbors. So what's the point of obeying laws that are not even followed by the ones who write them?
That's a very disingenuous statement you just made. Prove it because He only destroyed guilty sinners not innocent people
Progressive Christianity is a philosofical impossibility. Sorry.
These people are so arrogant and condescending.
This video is so braindead that it makes my head physically hurt
Still just sounds like the same old biblical scam with a different wrapper.
Jesus is not God. Jesus was promoted become God from Nicaea 325 AD.
John 1:1-14. 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.
8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The Word, which was God, and was in the beginning with God, became flesh and dwelt among us. Here John describes Jesus as God, and he even records Jesus’s claim of Godhood later on in John 8:58. Jesus says to the Jews “before Abraham was, I am.” Not “I was,” “I am.”
*And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”* _Mark 14:62_
Anyone who has ever read the Old Testament knows that these are divine titles in Jewish... hence why the Priest accuses Jesus of blasphemy and has him sentenced to death.
Also, the church fathers knew this was confusing and made it stupid clear in their letters.
*There is ONE Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; GOD EXISTING IN FLESH; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible - even Jesus Christ our Lord.* _The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians: Chapter 7. Beware of false teachers_
Ignatius tells us that God is One, and Jesus is simultaneously of God and God in flesh. This is literally the doctrine of the trinity written 200 years before the Council of Nicea.
Prove it because The Gospels clearly state that Jesus The Christ of Nazareth (Yeshua Hamashiac in Hebrew) is GOD ALMIGHTY MANIFEST IN FLESH TO OFFER HIMSELF FOR OUR SINS To REPAYMENT.
Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” - St. John 20:28 - 29
If you read the Ante Nicene fathers, you will see that they explicitly affirm the deity of Christ, so clearly this doctrine did not begin at the First Ecumenical Council! Indeed, that council was only called because the priest (English for presbyter) Arius of Alexandria had begun teaching that Christ was a created being rather than coequal in divinity with the Father. Thus, it was Arius who had DEmoted Christ, and THAT was the source of controversy that led to the Council. The Latin word Trinity (Trinitas) also appears in a written document of Tertullian in the late second century, and at least 20 years earlier, Patriarch St. Theophilus of Antioch, writing in Greek, used the word Trias. Furthermore, every feature of the Trinitarian dogma ("teaching") can be found in the canonical scriptures, just not all gathered into a single sentence or paragraph.
Michael Kruger is a liar and a second tier scholar...at best.
You say this because you disagree with him? Obviously, you consider yourself a first class one. Ha Ha!
How is he a liar? You state something as fact but you don't have any proof. Anyone can claim a person is liar. We are living in a culture of finger wagging and name calling without any substance to the claim.