If one of the "women" is so strong and so much taller and with far longer arms that they might kill the other woman? What about a "woman" groping a breast? What about patting her on the back after groping her and making her cry from the embarrassment of the groping?
When they were deciding to drop the cheek-swab test as standard, the onus was on the IOC to prove male DSD athletes wouldn't have male advantage in the female category. But they went ahead with the policy change anyway because they don't actually care about fairness for women in sport. Plus ça change.
I was life-banned from Twitter for standing up for this issue, but have started up on Threads. I've taken extraordinary abuse there, if anyone fancies giving me an auld follow there. Thank you to Graham, Helen and Arty. X
We went through all this in the 70s...it's why sex and hormone testing was introduced. Incidentally...those East German actual woman who took hormones suffered appalling health issues in much later life....take note of this....
Ask them (assume they are female) if they would fight a man. Fight to win not a spar. All out. If they believe it’s fair, they would. Then find yourself new friends, they seem like lost losers. Sorry but you are clearly worth more than them.
Me too.. Cousins kids call me transphobic and nasty over the "trans" issue, and now this DSD issue etc, as if they are such "kind" people, but they can't seem to see how awful these men are to actual women, and the harm being caused to our sports, our lives, prisons, Rape Crisis Centres etc..
I had a big pile on towards me on Facebook when I said this was like watching domestic violence as a spectator sport. One man said I was out of order as this was a female who had never lived as a male, I made a remark as to the irony of a man asking me to accept male on female violence. I mentioned his chromosomes, but I was shouted down. For god’s sake what in the world are we expected to accept. 😞😞😕
I kept going on this with people I know irl as long as I could but head/brick wall. Taking a mental health break ! Thank goodness for the amazing people I can reach out to! ❤
It is a LITTLE more complicated than that, because CAIS women don't experience a male puberty but have XY chromosomes. Calling them men is insane. This is why we need to draw the line at anyone who experiences a male puberty or who is doping with testosterone.
@@happynjoyousnfree then why aren’t they transparent enough to say this individual has a rare genetic abnormality, Swyer syndrome? Concept creep with term intersex as well. These are very rare conditions & are being misrepresented.
I thought this would have been the turning point, a man beating up women in front of millions of viewers, but going on Reddit, I can't believe the trans activists on there arguing for this using all the arguments you present here like it's a Russian propaganda effort and so on. It almost makes you lose all hope in humanity. I can't believe the times I'm living through. It's like something right out of Monty Python.
I feet exactly the same. The hatred for women, the hatred for Jews. People denying reality. It is depressing in the extreme. I don’t have a hope for the future
I think a lot of that is about the gatekeeping on Reddit, period. The mods there tend to be left-wing activists. I was banned for being "xenophobic" by suggesting that maybe my city should put our existing homeless population in housing or motels instead of prioritizing migrants. I have been homeless (toxic family as a kid) and had an uncle with PTSD from Vietnam War service who was homeless off and on for years. I think it's a valid question, esp because many times the American homeless have been taxpayers here in the past and funded services - but for reddit mods it's easier to just shut down anyone who disagrees with them.
Arty, you made me think of a convo I was having with one of my friend's kids, about how in the past cos we only had three TV channels in the UK, we all watched and loved the same things. Certain comedies we all knew the catchlines and the jokes, and in a sense, we were all steeped in the same culture. All that has gone now, we've all fractured into smaller tribes, become a low trust society. It's one of the many ways in which the internet has led to mass isolation and derangement.
Good point. However imagine how we would all be subject to the BBC propaganda good and proper if we only had three channels BBC1 and BBC2 being two of them. We would never find out the truth about anything important so long as their little woke employees were filtering the content.
Anna Slatz of Reduxx also submitted a very good twitter X column (under: 'pagliacci the hated' on Aug.2nd). And then there's a YT clip from last year concerning the IOC's deceitfulness on all this (Linda Blade, the History of Women's Sport Policy). As always - thankyou all for the excellent discussion & the articles. They may've suffered from a rare condition, but it doesn't give them the right to abuse, demean or endanger women. They do not qualify to compete in the women's category yet the IOC deliberately went out of it's way to make it happen.
I don’t think it’s that. Women have a range of testosterone naturally. My sister was a great shot putter, when she married and was trying to conceive she discovered she had high testosterone and that’s why it was harder for she and her husband. But my sister is identifiable as a woman: she has the hips of a woman, she has breasts, her shoulders aren’t as broad as a man’s etc. Like there’s a natural range and some women will have more T and develop bigger muscles than others. But they’re still clearly women. This is just a grift, this is clearly something happening under the guise of sport not as a legit sport.
Yes very sad, but once puberty hit, he would've known he wasn't female. No period, no development of breasts, tall, lean male physique and male strength and power... 🙄 Once tested, and XY make chromosomes were found, he knows he should stop punching XX females in the head... But both of these men have chosen money, over the safety of females... #TruthMatters #NoXYInXXSports #CheatingMen #
@@helenablavatsky9136it's called Swyer syndrome, she doesn't have male anatomy. She has a uterus, she get pregnant..Jamie Lee curtis also has it. Her levels would be about the same has Senera Williams she has polyovian cystic.
What about the women? What about those among us who have suffered male violence and rape? We are supposed to sit by and watch this and applaud these 'stunning and brave' fake women. Seeing women get beaten by people who have obviously gone through male puberty is bad enough but to see people, incuding my friends, applaud it is absolutely sickening.
Is there an inherent misogyny here in where a baby boy with a DSD can be called female - ie that the apparent absence of a (normal) penis = oh well must be a vagina then. But DSD males don't have a vagina! Female genitalia isn't just "something that's not a penis", Our parts aren't an anomaly or a deviation from the norm. Not sure if I'm expressing that well! Anyway if there is any doubt or question around whether an individual may or may not be male they shouldn't be allowed to box a woman. Safety first not ideology.
Islamic 'culture' has always decreed any boy born with whats NOW called DSD will be 'labeled' female . The LESSER sex in the religion . Alpha male attitude . Mysongenistic solution. This aspect of this farce has recieved very little investigation, and neither has the matter of the BORAT style 2018 birth cert !
Some males with DSDs have something called sex reversal in their development in utero. Meaning that because there's something wrong with their y chromosome or they have an insensitivity to androgens, they develop something of a vagina, uterus and fallopian tubes. This applies to e.g. Swyer and CAIS, which is why males with these conditions are often labeled as female because grouping them with other males doesn't make any sense as they resemble females more than they do males. Often they might not even know they have a DSD until they're teenagers and don't menstruate. I honestly don't know where they should be placed when it comes to sports. The definition of male and female depends on the potential development of gametes, but it might be fair to make an exception for the rare case of males who have a sexual reversal in their development as they never masculinize as other males do.
Putting my hand up. Reading the letters section of the Sydney Morning Herald today regarding this boxer and from the number of published letters confidently commenting on 'intersex' I don't think the general public is going to catch up any time soon.
There was an editorial in the Sydney Morning Herald on Saturday that explained the boxing controversy really clearly. And another 2 pages in the front of the paper about it. I was heartened to see it in the mainstream media here in Oz.
That editorial referred to Khelif as a woman throughout. It was at least honest enough to acknowledge that the 'IOC has a lower threshold of gender eligibility than the IBA'.
If he really thought he was a women he'd have a DNA test and publish the results. He isn't threatening to sue any one who keeps saying he's a man. I don't think he'll ever have a test because the money would stop for him and his family.
I believe he was tested by the Russians one time, and was disqualified because his chromosomes are xy. I'm not stating categorically that this occurred, but I've heard that it did.
That’s what had been widely reported and why he (and the other male athlete) were banned from competing in the world boxing championships. So it’s not as if they don’t know that they are biological males.
Ross Tucker of The Real Science of Sport is one of the greatest advocates for women in sports, and for fairness in sport in every sense. Great ethics meets great science.
Like Helen and the punishment issue, a ridiculous man on X tried to say JK R was a man to me in a long argument because she was tweeting about the boxers. It’s absolutely batshit crazy.
Yes, a female acquaintance said she hadn't been tested so for all she knew she could be male and so could I... I mentioned the small matter that we've both given birth...😊
Graham, Helen, Arty. Your discussion is extremely important. You all contribute so much to raising awareness on these issues. May I make a suggestion to easily improve your audio, which currently is quite poor. An inexpensive microphone that plugs into your computer, that can be placed near your mouth, will improve the audio a great deal. Arty's headset has a mic near his mouth and his audio is better. But an inexpensive mic placed closer to your voice will improve all your quality. Your excellent content deserves better audio.
@@sandramunroe5073 democrats win on a huge array of topics, but if we just narrow down to women's rights they have abortion and the republicans don't. So it's not even clear on just women's rights who wins. And outside of women's rights it's *laughable* to vote republican
I've been called a man too for expressing my opinion on this. Apparently, I have a square jaw. And I was told Khelif was born a cis woman - an adult human female who identifies with her sex. How ridiculous. As if a 1 day old infant could identify with one's sex.
Everybody can tell the difference between a man and a woman, only fanatical idealogy, deliberate unpleasantness or maybe a tragic head condition, would make anybody unable to, and sadly its never easy to tell which is the case for extreme gender idealogues.
I'm sick to death of the purported adults in the room thinking that it's acceptable to compensate for a lack of understanding with sympathy or pity. It ultimately throws everyone else under the bus in the name of others who cannot accept that their lot in life means they are NOT what they think, believe, or have deluded themselves into believing they are. Reality--effing deal with it.
As always, good stuff from the start. Thanks, sincerely. If it wasn't for a few people around the world--- you all among them--- I'd think I was completely alone on The Planet of the Insane.
Except he’s totally wrong about the Red Hand flag. It’s not a terrorist symbol, it’s the official Northern Ireland flag! That’s the Red Hand of Ulster and it’s a heraldic symbol, not “a symbol of murdered innocent Catholics” as Graham so insultingly puts it.
Reading comments on social media about this, what i find the most depressing is that it's women defending it whilst men are calling it crazy. Mostly middle class white women are the ones getting really angry defending it. Women are destroy women's rights - not men
Women have always been groomed to oppose their own interests. Many women opposed the suffragettes. Liberal feminism is a classic example of a belief system that is the exact opposite of what it claims to be and you’re ostracized if you oppose it as a woman. The feminine conditioning of ‘be kind’ and ‘be ladylike,’ plus the society at large being officially woke, it’s not hard to understand why women do this. I feel like a lot of men say this because they think women are feeble minded and dumb; they just don’t want to say it out loud.
The fallout on Twitter has been nothing like anything I've ever seen since I started terfing seven years ago. Just the absolute relentless avalance of falsehoods about this MAN is quite astounding to witness.
Men used to have to pick one woman and marry her and publicly pretend that they're privately not doing what this guy gets to do in a ring in public with multiple partners brought to him. Nothing new under the sun.
Women in sports injured by this insanity should lawyer up. That athlete needs to sue the Olympic committee. Lawsuits are the only thing that will end this.
Oh my God this has been so fraught. I posted an article about it on Facebook and 285 post later I’ve been called a hateful bigot so many times I can’t count. All I want is the rights of women to be protected and women’s safe spaces and protection in women’s sports. This discussion totally repeats all my talking point. I love you guys!
Arty’s final comment goes beyond gender ideology and is a deep and brilliant reflection on the risks democratic societies face in the information era. Thank you.
The Red Hand is just a general symbol associated with Ulster, it's on the coat of arms of the O'Neills and a lot of other families. Nothing to do with terrorism per se.
12:52 Apparently Princess Anne didn’t have to undergo sex testing when she competed at the Olympics in the 70s. That could be an apocryphal tale, of course.
The best book on corruption within the Olympics was written by Investigative journalist, Andrew Jennings who died a few years ago but still highly relevant.. Called 'The Lords of the Rings' and 'The New Lords of the Rings
Thanks, I'm going to read that. I only found out this weekend about the debacle of the 2016 Rio Women's 800m - all medals going to biological (XY) males, Caster Semenya taking Gold! Women losing their rightful prizes - it's terribly wrong.
I just went to see the TERF play. Really good and not at all detrimental towards our side. No unrest! But maybe when the trans supporters get wind off the sentiment it will be sabotaged. I would criticise the sound and my friend agreed it was difficult to make out everything that was said - need to slow down, speak up and enunciate better. But worth a watch.
As a young amateur boxer I was often accused of 'fighting like a girl.' It never occurred to me all those years ago that one day in the future we'd be allowed to. With real girls.
He was a comedian I think in Canada but lost all his friends and job opportunities for speaking up in the gay community in Tranada. ( I may have imagined all that but someone may come along and correct me!)
The hips. Men don’t have hips. Men also have longer arms than women (you can tell by the sleeves on mens/women’s clothing), which comes in very useful in a boxing match!
Trump is probably the best president in the last century. Seriously. I say this as someone who hated his guts in 2016 (before I woke up and realised the MSM is corrupt af).
This is huge issue that should unite people... all people, but sticking to hard line leftists beliefs only alienates people. Some of the comments made about Trump which are made here are false... just generalities and no substance... but the right wing are far more on your side than than the people that some of you believe in and attacking the right is not going to bring people together. BTW I am not a great fan of Trump but I see him as more of an ally to this cause than I hear from you all. It is a bad position to be in.... to be a die hard leftist and turn your back on, or attack, those who are on your side. This whole mess, this whole issue, is caused by leftists and left wing thinking... and we would not be in this position, regarding this serious issue, if the left were not feeding the beast.
This is a bit more complicated than the usual transgender bollocks, there just isn't much information out there. If this person is a genetically a man then they should not be fighting (no one knows). If the person is genetically neither male or female (its rare but biologically they should be considered neither sex but socially and legally outside sport whatever is the closest ) then I don't think they should be in the ring either. If they are genetically a woman but has some strange development mutation (like having testes) then I'm not sure and this should have been properly investigated before the the games
It’s already out there. He has a condition where the external male genitalia do not form properly. So no dick, no testes, but internally he is all male. Therefore his hormonal makeup put him through male puberty, giving him the upper body strength of a man. This is a clear-cut case.
Oh Melissa. Tell that to the families of the Manchester bombing victims or the Rochdale grooming gangs who DELIBERATELY TARGETED white working class girls who they regarded as sub-human. How many more children have to be harmed by immigrants before people like you wake up? Practically every case you see of a wild unprovoked murderer spree is by an immigrant. Valdo Calocane stabbing those 3 people to death. The guy stabbing the 3 children at the Taylor Swift event. The acid attack on the mother and child. The stabbing of a 12 year old girl in Leicester Square yesterday. All immigrants. We are importing damaged people who don’t abide by our way of life and see white Britons as lesser beings. What happens if your child is next?
Can someone please clarify. When Helen states her son says " ... well, you know, it's the Russian thing ... " I have no idea what he means. I am well across the history of Soviet Olympic testosterone, drug enhanced performances etc, and the like which has nothing in common with the current instance. So what am I missing in his statement? What does he mean? TIA
The IOC is trying to spin this story as deliberate Russian interference because their boxer lost to Khelif or the other one at the World Championships and that they then used the issue to get his gold cancelled so the Russian could be first. The guy who first shared the fact the swabs showed XY was Russian. However the fact is that the swab WAS XY so it’s irrelevant that it was the Russians who asked for the test because the test proved the boxing match was unfair and should be disallowed. But of course lots of people have clung to the Russian part of the story and say that it’s Putin pulling the strings.
@@BlytheInBlack How you explain that russian IBA did test in 2022 and didn't mind that it turned out to be XY? They didn't care. Out of a sudden they started to care in 2023. It started be a soviet tool to unscrew western IOC when russians were denied to start under their national flag and IBA did sustain support from Gazprom (russian of course). IOC organizers team explaination are idiotic but they are under pressure now. And russian try to spoil the fun for kids who don't want to play with them and the advertise their own "Friendship Games" which is meant to be russian alternative to Olimpic Games. XY may result in DSD. I don't say this should be allowed into a woman sports but this doesn't deny that russian plot in this. However odd this sounds to you.
I was very anti-Trump when he got in and when he left. But since then I’ve done a lot of homework and like all of us have been through a lot of ups and downs. He’s the best of the bad lot. In an ideal world, that wouldn’t be good enough, but I’m afraid it’s all we’ve got.
@@kerryAZ24 Kamala Harris is terrifying. This is a woman who covered up Planned Parenthood selling the body parts of aborted babies and brought the full force of the law down on the investigative journalist who was looking into their malpractice. All because PP are her big donors. That woman is evil.
@@take5breaths It smacks of Orwellian irony that the Democrats persist in calling themselves “democrats” when in the last year alone they’ve 1) Tried to take the opposition candidate off the ballot paper 2) Rallied corrupt DAs to pursue bogus charges with handpicked juries against said opposition candidate 3) Covered up the severe mental decline of their leader until the truth no longer can be hidden, only then to stage a coup to replace that candidate with someone with no democratic mandate even from her own party 4) Overseen the biggest failure of Secret Service ever seen in US history to their political opposition and created the conditions for a assassination attempt …. Written down altogether it really is mindblowing how shameless and openly corrupt they are. Sickening.
There is an old saying that fits here: “If you aren’t a Democrat when you’re young, you don’t have a heart; and if you aren’t a Republican when you’re old, you don’t have a brain.”
Boxing but I read it was a Person with an intersex condition. All the childhood pictures were showing a girl so this boxer grew up socially as a female and not trans female. But nonetheless it might be unfair if someone has more testosterone or shoulders like a man because of Chromosomes. It is not juicing or Doping but it is an advantage because of hormones so there should be a rule for that as well in my opinion.
@@bsrfuchs55 Intersex is a very offensive term to people with DSds. They are not 'between' two sexes they are still either men or women, but with sexual disorders, such as undescended testes, but there are many variations. In certain countries they are brought up as women, or claim to be for a variety of reasons, not least increasingly as a sports advantage. Men still go through puberty with all the advantages.
London has had countless anti-Israel marches for months now. Including ones where Muslim men holding ISIS flags chant “Death to Jews” and “Intifada” and there’s been assaults on Jews too. This is a growing problem
If you are so much fir truth then do try to find out before speaking. In short; under the sha Iranians werenot even treated as guests in their own country. Foreign playboys were allwed to do whatever they liked in Iran, buy whatever resources they liked in Iran, allowed squeeze out Iranians from any business and so on. Iranians rightly rose up for democracy and social democracy. Well they called themselves communists but didn't have a cummunist program. At the moment when they won, old religious power structures took over, stole the revolution they had not worked for, and made Iran a religious state.
Despite many people peaking and despite evidence to the contrary, the T issue is here to stay. I'm very pessimistic about our overcoming it and turning things around.
Almost 10 years down this rabbit hole and no-one has ever explained why the onus of proof should be on the women.
If one of the "women" is so strong and so much taller and with far longer arms that they might kill the other woman? What about a "woman" groping a breast? What about patting her on the back after groping her and making her cry from the embarrassment of the groping?
@@kiskakuznetsova503very imaginative! But gross
To do that you'd have to believe in explaining and justifying yourself.
@@lindarushton6502 He did that to her. I have screenshots.
@@somerandomhomeboy Because everything is always on us.🙁
When they were deciding to drop the cheek-swab test as standard, the onus was on the IOC to prove male DSD athletes wouldn't have male advantage in the female category. But they went ahead with the policy change anyway because they don't actually care about fairness for women in sport. Plus ça change.
Bullseye.
Exactly.
They are terrified of the media and online activsts.The opening ceremony showed how woke they are
I was life-banned from Twitter for standing up for this issue, but have started up on Threads. I've taken extraordinary abuse there, if anyone fancies giving me an auld follow there. Thank you to Graham, Helen and Arty. X
Social media is toxic
I thought musk was allowing free speech?
I will! Twitter is a cesspool. xxoo
@@helendancelothe is and does. There must have been some reason for the ban. You'll get no freedom of speech on threads.
Well I certainly hope that's the case, and Twitter isn't disappearing up its own troon-hole again.
Disqualify him and ban him from all sporting events. He's not an athlete. He's a bully.
Ok, IS he man or is he a woman taking testosteron?
Exactly. He’s been through male puberty.. he knows he’s a man, he knows what he’s doing.
We went through all this in the 70s...it's why sex and hormone testing was introduced.
Incidentally...those East German actual woman who took hormones suffered appalling health issues in much later life....take note of this....
Marion Johnston wasn't it?
you've got a point
Very true. I remember. The women went through appaling stuff.
That is a dead give away.
This issue has caused a big argument between my friends and me and I’m really upset. So glad to see you had a show xx
Sorry to say that if your friends think this is fair, then you may need to change your friends.
Ask them (assume they are female) if they would fight a man. Fight to win not a spar. All out. If they believe it’s fair, they would. Then find yourself new friends, they seem like lost losers. Sorry but you are clearly worth more than them.
Are they on the other side out of compassion for DSDs?
Me too.. Cousins kids call me transphobic and nasty over the "trans" issue, and now this DSD issue etc, as if they are such "kind" people, but they can't seem to see how awful these men are to actual women, and the harm being caused to our sports, our lives, prisons, Rape Crisis Centres etc..
Your friends are in the right. I hope you realise this quickly before you end up as a weird shut-in freak like Graham Linehan.
I had a big pile on towards me on Facebook when I said this was like watching domestic violence as a spectator sport. One man said I was out of order as this was a female who had never lived as a male, I made a remark as to the irony of a man asking me to accept male on female violence. I mentioned his chromosomes, but I was shouted down. For god’s sake what in the world are we expected to accept. 😞😞😕
Hope you didn't back down.
@@AndraMikkelsen no way.
@@hangingaround2954 : Inspiring!
I kept going on this with people I know irl as long as I could but head/brick wall. Taking a mental health break ! Thank goodness for the amazing people I can reach out to! ❤
its like a parallel dimension of insanity. It's very simple - is the boxer XY or XX, yet they won't even entertain the question!!
They won't entertain that question, because the answer is not what they want to hear.
It is a LITTLE more complicated than that, because CAIS women don't experience a male puberty but have XY chromosomes. Calling them men is insane. This is why we need to draw the line at anyone who experiences a male puberty or who is doping with testosterone.
@@happynjoyousnfree then why aren’t they transparent enough to say this individual has a rare genetic abnormality, Swyer syndrome?
Concept creep with term intersex as well.
These are very rare conditions & are being misrepresented.
I thought this would have been the turning point, a man beating up women in front of millions of viewers, but going on Reddit, I can't believe the trans activists on there arguing for this using all the arguments you present here like it's a Russian propaganda effort and so on. It almost makes you lose all hope in humanity. I can't believe the times I'm living through. It's like something right out of Monty Python.
I feet exactly the same. The hatred for women, the hatred for Jews. People denying reality. It is depressing in the extreme. I don’t have a hope for the future
I think a lot of that is about the gatekeeping on Reddit, period. The mods there tend to be left-wing activists. I was banned for being "xenophobic" by suggesting that maybe my city should put our existing homeless population in housing or motels instead of prioritizing migrants. I have been homeless (toxic family as a kid) and had an uncle with PTSD from Vietnam War service who was homeless off and on for years. I think it's a valid question, esp because many times the American homeless have been taxpayers here in the past and funded services - but for reddit mods it's easier to just shut down anyone who disagrees with them.
I really think you shouldn't be thinking something will be a turning point that's already happened, and wasn't a turning point them.
I really think you shouldn't be thinking something will be a turning point that's already happened, and wasn't a turning point then.
Did we forget Fallon Fox?
Arty, you made me think of a convo I was having with one of my friend's kids, about how in the past cos we only had three TV channels in the UK, we all watched and loved the same things. Certain comedies we all knew the catchlines and the jokes, and in a sense, we were all steeped in the same culture. All that has gone now, we've all fractured into smaller tribes, become a low trust society. It's one of the many ways in which the internet has led to mass isolation and derangement.
Good point. However imagine how we would all be subject to the BBC propaganda good and proper if we only had three channels BBC1 and BBC2 being two of them. We would never find out the truth about anything important so long as their little woke employees were filtering the content.
Anna Slatz of Reduxx also submitted a very good twitter X column (under: 'pagliacci the hated' on Aug.2nd).
And then there's a YT clip from last year concerning the IOC's deceitfulness on all this (Linda Blade, the History of Women's Sport Policy).
As always - thankyou all for the excellent discussion & the articles.
They may've suffered from a rare condition, but it doesn't give them the right to abuse, demean or endanger women. They do not qualify to compete in the women's category yet the IOC deliberately went out of it's way to make it happen.
The IOC has very determinedly enabled this for years now.
As Kalife and Ting entered puberty they knew they were not developing as a female, yet they CHOSE to compete in women's boxing!
It's too bad that the two XY boxers aren't going to be fighting each other, that would have been so perfectly farcical.
had the men been the same weight category they could’ve been in final together , it would have brought even more attention to how unfair this is
This is more farcical, if they both beat the others in their weight class and become the two female world champions.
It’s bad luck and terribly sad when one is born with a birth defect. But it is what it is. Life isn’t fair.
I don’t think it’s that. Women have a range of testosterone naturally. My sister was a great shot putter, when she married and was trying to conceive she discovered she had high testosterone and that’s why it was harder for she and her husband. But my sister is identifiable as a woman: she has the hips of a woman, she has breasts, her shoulders aren’t as broad as a man’s etc. Like there’s a natural range and some women will have more T and develop bigger muscles than others. But they’re still clearly women.
This is just a grift, this is clearly something happening under the guise of sport not as a legit sport.
@@rebekah7635 but no where near the testosterone level of a biological male.
Yes very sad, but once puberty hit, he would've known he wasn't female. No period, no development of breasts, tall, lean male physique and male strength and power... 🙄 Once tested, and XY make chromosomes were found, he knows he should stop punching XX females in the head... But both of these men have chosen money, over the safety of females...
#TruthMatters
#NoXYInXXSports #CheatingMen #
@@rettahbful Yes exactly
@@helenablavatsky9136it's called Swyer syndrome, she doesn't have male anatomy. She has a uterus, she get pregnant..Jamie Lee curtis also has it. Her levels would be about the same has Senera Williams she has polyovian cystic.
What about the women? What about those among us who have suffered male violence and rape? We are supposed to sit by and watch this and applaud these 'stunning and brave' fake women. Seeing women get beaten by people who have obviously gone through male puberty is bad enough but to see people, incuding my friends, applaud it is absolutely sickening.
Is there an inherent misogyny here in where a baby boy with a DSD can be called female - ie that the apparent absence of a (normal) penis = oh well must be a vagina then. But DSD males don't have a vagina! Female genitalia isn't just "something that's not a penis", Our parts aren't an anomaly or a deviation from the norm. Not sure if I'm expressing that well! Anyway if there is any doubt or question around whether an individual may or may not be male they shouldn't be allowed to box a woman. Safety first not ideology.
They shouldn't be in women anything, spaces, prisons, changing rooms, toilets.
Islamic 'culture' has always decreed any boy born with whats NOW called DSD will be 'labeled' female . The LESSER sex in the religion . Alpha male attitude . Mysongenistic solution. This aspect of this farce has recieved very little investigation, and neither has the matter of the BORAT style 2018 birth cert !
Some males with DSDs have something called sex reversal in their development in utero. Meaning that because there's something wrong with their y chromosome or they have an insensitivity to androgens, they develop something of a vagina, uterus and fallopian tubes. This applies to e.g. Swyer and CAIS, which is why males with these conditions are often labeled as female because grouping them with other males doesn't make any sense as they resemble females more than they do males. Often they might not even know they have a DSD until they're teenagers and don't menstruate. I honestly don't know where they should be placed when it comes to sports. The definition of male and female depends on the potential development of gametes, but it might be fair to make an exception for the rare case of males who have a sexual reversal in their development as they never masculinize as other males do.
The underdeveloped male genitalia can form as folds of skin, and superficially might look like female genitalia.
Who else knew nothing about it a few years ago but now thinks you wouldn’t disgrace yourself on Mastermind with DSDs as the specialist category? 😏
Putting my hand up. Reading the letters section of the Sydney Morning Herald today regarding this boxer and from the number of published letters confidently commenting on 'intersex' I don't think the general public is going to catch up any time soon.
I'm a biology teacher with a special interest in this area, and even I've increased my knowledge to the power of n squared.
I don't think I'm that good but certainly expert enough to explain reality to f***wits on twitter.
Hey IOC... down with this sort of thing!
😂😂😂
There was an editorial in the Sydney Morning Herald on Saturday that explained the boxing controversy really clearly. And another 2 pages in the front of the paper about it. I was heartened to see it in the mainstream media here in Oz.
That editorial referred to Khelif as a woman throughout. It was at least honest enough to acknowledge that the 'IOC has a lower threshold of gender eligibility than the IBA'.
If he really thought he was a women he'd have a DNA test and publish the results. He isn't threatening to sue any one who keeps saying he's a man. I don't think he'll ever have a test because the money would stop for him and his family.
I believe he was tested by the Russians one time, and was disqualified because his chromosomes are xy.
I'm not stating categorically that this occurred, but I've heard that it did.
@@merineyit Aye those notoriously trustworthy Russians.
That’s what had been widely reported and why he (and the other male athlete) were banned from competing in the world boxing championships. So it’s not as if they don’t know that they are biological males.
According to reports, the Algerian and the person from Taiwan were tested in India and came up XY.
The IBA did a test and both these supposed women boxers failed. They were banned by the IBA but the Olympics wont accept the ban.
Ross Tucker of The Real Science of Sport is one of the greatest advocates for women in sports, and for fairness in sport in every sense. Great ethics meets great science.
Not only normalizing lying, Helen, normalizing everything bad.
Like Helen and the punishment issue, a ridiculous man on X tried to say JK R was a man to me in a long argument because she was tweeting about the boxers. It’s absolutely batshit crazy.
Yes, a female acquaintance said she hadn't been tested so for all she knew she could be male and so could I... I mentioned the small matter that we've both given birth...😊
It is not her chromosomes that need testing. Typical female, caring adult. We have to be kind.
Graham, Helen, Arty. Your discussion is extremely important. You all contribute so much to raising awareness on these issues. May I make a suggestion to easily improve your audio, which currently is quite poor. An inexpensive microphone that plugs into your computer, that can be placed near your mouth, will improve the audio a great deal. Arty's headset has a mic near his mouth and his audio is better. But an inexpensive mic placed closer to your voice will improve all your quality. Your excellent content deserves better audio.
Yeti nano is a great inexpensive microphone. It's what I use and I'm cheap af
always enjoy your shows ❤
Who would have thought that I'd be looking to Graham Lineham for a sane view of the world.
I mean he basically implies he would vote for Donald Trump in this one haha. At least the other two shut him down.
@@Eoaiyer21987rhei I don't think he said that. I think he said they were both equally awful.
@@annal2740 he said the democrats scrapped roe v Wade and other things that were objectively bollocks. But like I say they both shut him down
Look at the alternative to Donald Trump. I don't think the US have a choice do they?
@@sandramunroe5073 democrats win on a huge array of topics, but if we just narrow down to women's rights they have abortion and the republicans don't. So it's not even clear on just women's rights who wins. And outside of women's rights it's *laughable* to vote republican
Men with DSDs in poor countries without screening may be assigned female at birth by a doctor. They develop into men but some cannot accept the fact.
He doesn't want to get tested bcs he knows what the results will be. Me thinks HE doth protest too much.
The IBA tested them. They were both xy and gort banned.
@@cyberleaderandy1 Yes I know, that was my point
I was appalled by that boxing match. The Italian female was being pummelled by a person who is patently male! Which way is ‘up’ nowadays?
So you love a bad acting of Italian scuba divers team.
What a -wonderful- world.
I'm melting!
It's not a blind spot. Everyone knows these are men competing against women.
I've been called a man too for expressing my opinion on this. Apparently, I have a square jaw. And I was told Khelif was born a cis woman - an adult human female who identifies with her sex. How ridiculous. As if a 1 day old infant could identify with one's sex.
Everybody can tell the difference between a man and a woman, only fanatical idealogy, deliberate unpleasantness or maybe a tragic head condition, would make anybody unable to, and sadly its never easy to tell which is the case for extreme gender idealogues.
I'm sick to death of the purported adults in the room thinking that it's acceptable to compensate for a lack of understanding with sympathy or pity. It ultimately throws everyone else under the bus in the name of others who cannot accept that their lot in life means they are NOT what they think, believe, or have deluded themselves into believing they are. Reality--effing deal with it.
I have yet to plough through all the Comments but since when did a passport define gender --- according to the IOC ?
I am utterly gobsmacked to hear that Castor Semenya has fathered two children.
As always, good stuff from the start. Thanks, sincerely. If it wasn't for a few people around the world--- you all among them--- I'd think I was completely alone on The Planet of the Insane.
The whole faux left west spends its days infantilizing Muslims and catastrophizing TQUIA2S cross dressers. It's a nursey school for Crazytown all day.
Totally agree with you on what happened in N. Ireland, Graham. It was good to see you tweet about this.
Handful of Dublin racists join loyalist protest in Belfast. " Not a popular one , Joe".
Except he’s totally wrong about the Red Hand flag. It’s not a terrorist symbol, it’s the official Northern Ireland flag! That’s the Red Hand of Ulster and it’s a heraldic symbol, not “a symbol of murdered innocent Catholics” as Graham so insultingly puts it.
I've been waiting for this particular show all week.
Stop paying the licence fee. That's the way forward.
Reading comments on social media about this, what i find the most depressing is that it's women defending it whilst men are calling it crazy. Mostly middle class white women are the ones getting really angry defending it. Women are destroy women's rights - not men
Mark Adams isn’t a woman - nor are the others on the Olympic boxing committee
Mostly men I hear defending it.
On the contrary, it seems to me it is mostly men defending this, and the whole "trans women are women" claim
Women have always been groomed to oppose their own interests. Many women opposed the suffragettes. Liberal feminism is a classic example of a belief system that is the exact opposite of what it claims to be and you’re ostracized if you oppose it as a woman. The feminine conditioning of ‘be kind’ and ‘be ladylike,’ plus the society at large being officially woke, it’s not hard to understand why women do this. I feel like a lot of men say this because they think women are feeble minded and dumb; they just don’t want to say it out loud.
The fallout on Twitter has been nothing like anything I've ever seen since I started terfing seven years ago. Just the absolute relentless avalance of falsehoods about this MAN is quite astounding to witness.
We're going to have to figure out how to put the genie back into the bottle or womens rights, sports, private spaces, etc are done.
Men used to have to pick one woman and marry her and publicly pretend that they're privately not doing what this guy gets to do in a ring in public with multiple partners brought to him. Nothing new under the sun.
What???
Can you look in to the recent BMA push back against CASS and the ban on puberty blockers- who is driving this in the BMA - is it captured?
Please buy some proper mics! Love the show but the sound quality is so bad.
Women in sports injured by this insanity should lawyer up. That athlete needs to sue the Olympic committee. Lawsuits are the only thing that will end this.
Oh my God this has been so fraught. I posted an article about it on Facebook and 285 post later I’ve been called a hateful bigot so many times I can’t count. All I want is the rights of women to be protected and women’s safe spaces and protection in women’s sports. This discussion totally repeats all my talking point. I love you guys!
Elite crowd who mix in same circles - they have lost all connection to reality! 🤷♀️
Fantastic Graham!!❤
Kier Starmer “it should not be said”… same nonsense!
What if you identify as a different weight class? Scales are fatphobic. Weight is a social construction.
Arty’s final comment goes beyond gender ideology and is a deep and brilliant reflection on the risks democratic societies face in the information era. Thank you.
I like the XX finger symbol.
2:13 One of the things that blows my mind about this, is the influence that the LGBT staff group has on the BBC’s output. 🤯
The Red Hand is just a general symbol associated with Ulster, it's on the coat of arms of the O'Neills and a lot of other families. Nothing to do with terrorism per se.
Quite common in heraldry in general.
Exactly, was pretty shocked at Graham’s comment there. The Red Hand of Ulster is our flag, it’s not a terrorist symbol at all.
Graham and Helen were talking about 2 different women in the beginning - about what they were saying while in the ring.
Thanks you 3 lovelies, love your work!
The Internet: You're a bloke.
Athlete: No I'm not.
The Internet: Prove it.
Athlete: .... (radio silence) ....
12:52 Apparently Princess Anne didn’t have to undergo sex testing when she competed at the Olympics in the 70s.
That could be an apocryphal tale, of course.
The best book on corruption within the Olympics was written by Investigative journalist, Andrew Jennings who died a few years ago but still highly relevant..
Called 'The Lords of the Rings' and 'The New Lords of the Rings
Thanks, I'm going to read that. I only found out this weekend about the debacle of the 2016 Rio Women's 800m - all medals going to biological (XY) males, Caster Semenya taking Gold! Women losing their rightful prizes - it's terribly wrong.
Was he taken out?
I just went to see the TERF play. Really good and not at all detrimental towards our side. No unrest! But maybe when the trans supporters get wind off the sentiment it will be sabotaged. I would criticise the sound and my friend agreed it was difficult to make out everything that was said - need to slow down, speak up and enunciate better. But worth a watch.
As a young amateur boxer I was often accused of 'fighting like a girl.' It never occurred to me all those years ago that one day in the future we'd be allowed to. With real girls.
ArtyMort I don't know who you are but yer fkn awesome!
Agree. And he doesn't get enough credit.
He was a comedian I think in Canada but lost all his friends and job opportunities for speaking up in the gay community in Tranada. ( I may have imagined all that but someone may come along and correct me!)
He has a wonderful way of explaining things in ways I hadn't thought of, often highly enlightening.
The face and hands always give it away. All you need to do is look. He's a bloke. No doubt.
The hips. Men don’t have hips. Men also have longer arms than women (you can tell by the sleeves on mens/women’s clothing), which comes in very useful in a boxing match!
Maddening :(
Thanks for all you have done and keep doing
Why aren’t they listening?! :(
Uuggghhhhhh
Same prob in the U.S. no coverage on MSM. Nothing in the NY times today.
As an American, the choice between presidential candidates is like choosing between eating chocolate covered shit or shit covered chocolate
Trump is probably the best president in the last century. Seriously. I say this as someone who hated his guts in 2016 (before I woke up and realised the MSM is corrupt af).
Tracking media edits to push situations to the right or left is a fun scrolling game to play on your phone
Great discussion. Biological blindspots causing biology blindness. Questions that throw the discussion away.
Mama Mia! That’s a creeeeeaaaaammmy carbonara!
This is huge issue that should unite people... all people, but sticking to hard line leftists beliefs only alienates people. Some of the comments made about Trump which are made here are false... just generalities and no substance... but the right wing are far more on your side than than the people that some of you believe in and attacking the right is not going to bring people together. BTW I am not a great fan of Trump but I see him as more of an ally to this cause than I hear from you all. It is a bad position to be in.... to be a die hard leftist and turn your back on, or attack, those who are on your side. This whole mess, this whole issue, is caused by leftists and left wing thinking... and we would not be in this position, regarding this serious issue, if the left were not feeding the beast.
they can see it. they don’t CARE.
Great discussion and made the point! Thank you
Thank you very much for this episode.
brilliant!
This is a bit more complicated than the usual transgender bollocks, there just isn't much information out there. If this person is a genetically a man then they should not be fighting (no one knows). If the person is genetically neither male or female (its rare but biologically they should be considered neither sex but socially and legally outside sport whatever is the closest ) then I don't think they should be in the ring either. If they are genetically a woman but has some strange development mutation (like having testes) then I'm not sure and this should have been properly investigated before the the games
It’s already out there. He has a condition where the external male genitalia do not form properly. So no dick, no testes, but internally he is all male. Therefore his hormonal makeup put him through male puberty, giving him the upper body strength of a man. This is a clear-cut case.
Oh Graham. This violence has not been triggered by asylum seekers of any religion. Please don't go down that rabbit hole. x
Oh Melissa. Tell that to the families of the Manchester bombing victims or the Rochdale grooming gangs who DELIBERATELY TARGETED white working class girls who they regarded as sub-human. How many more children have to be harmed by immigrants before people like you wake up? Practically every case you see of a wild unprovoked murderer spree is by an immigrant. Valdo Calocane stabbing those 3 people to death. The guy stabbing the 3 children at the Taylor Swift event. The acid attack on the mother and child. The stabbing of a 12 year old girl in Leicester Square yesterday. All immigrants. We are importing damaged people who don’t abide by our way of life and see white Britons as lesser beings. What happens if your child is next?
Can someone please clarify. When Helen states her son says " ... well, you know, it's the Russian thing ... " I have no idea what he means. I am well across the history of Soviet Olympic testosterone, drug enhanced performances etc, and the like which has nothing in common with the current instance. So what am I missing in his statement? What does he mean? TIA
The IOC is trying to spin this story as deliberate Russian interference because their boxer lost to Khelif or the other one at the World Championships and that they then used the issue to get his gold cancelled so the Russian could be first. The guy who first shared the fact the swabs showed XY was Russian.
However the fact is that the swab WAS XY so it’s irrelevant that it was the Russians who asked for the test because the test proved the boxing match was unfair and should be disallowed.
But of course lots of people have clung to the Russian part of the story and say that it’s Putin pulling the strings.
@@BlytheInBlack Ta.
@@BlytheInBlack How you explain that russian IBA did test in 2022 and didn't mind that it turned out to be XY? They didn't care. Out of a sudden they started to care in 2023. It started be a soviet tool to unscrew western IOC when russians were denied to start under their national flag and IBA did sustain support from Gazprom (russian of course).
IOC organizers team explaination are idiotic but they are under pressure now. And russian try to spoil the fun for kids who don't want to play with them and the advertise their own "Friendship Games" which is meant to be russian alternative to Olimpic Games.
XY may result in DSD. I don't say this should be allowed into a woman sports but this doesn't deny that russian plot in this. However odd this sounds to you.
This is brilliant!
It's fascinating to watch Graham's Trump Derangement Syndrome being cured in real time.
I think what is happening in the UK right now is speeding that up.
34:25 Totally agree Arty!
I was very anti-Trump when he got in and when he left. But since then I’ve done a lot of homework and like all of us have been through a lot of ups and downs. He’s the best of the bad lot.
In an ideal world, that wouldn’t be good enough, but I’m afraid it’s all we’ve got.
It's frightening that that's where we are 😮
@@kerryAZ24agreed. That people would embrace bald faced authoritarianism over democracy is heartbreaking.
@@kerryAZ24 Kamala Harris is terrifying. This is a woman who covered up Planned Parenthood selling the body parts of aborted babies and brought the full force of the law down on the investigative journalist who was looking into their malpractice. All because PP are her big donors. That woman is evil.
@@take5breaths It smacks of Orwellian irony that the Democrats persist in calling themselves “democrats” when in the last year alone they’ve 1) Tried to take the opposition candidate off the ballot paper 2) Rallied corrupt DAs to pursue bogus charges with handpicked juries against said opposition candidate 3) Covered up the severe mental decline of their leader until the truth no longer can be hidden, only then to stage a coup to replace that candidate with someone with no democratic mandate even from her own party 4) Overseen the biggest failure of Secret Service ever seen in US history to their political opposition and created the conditions for a assassination attempt …. Written down altogether it really is mindblowing how shameless and openly corrupt they are. Sickening.
3:34 they're not big, and they're not in the middle of your vision
they're small, and they're in the periphery of your field of view
wait, maybe it is in the middle
but it's not big
What's now happening to Musk and JK is funnier than anything Glinner has written in at least a decade =D
3:54 so why doesn’t the brain fill in the big black blind spot caused by macular degeneration?
I`ve become more conservative as i get older
That's perfectly normal. As we age we gain wisdom and no longer believe the lies fed to us in our youth.
There is an old saying that fits here: “If you aren’t a Democrat when you’re young, you don’t have a heart; and if you aren’t a Republican when you’re old, you don’t have a brain.”
@@DeniseMe64 I`m Aussie mate which is a different story
There was no Russian interference in 2016?
No, it's not a bloke.
Mark Adams is WEF
Also there's no advantage to male puberty but it must also be stopped with puberty blockers because it's so harmful to potential transwomen.
😆😆😆
Why is Imane Khelif wearing a male groin guard?
Both male and female boxers are required to wear groin guards.
@@pollyparrot9447 exactly, but clem dane won’t care they’re ignorant
@@docgonzales @clemdane is spot on. Khalif is wearing a male groin guard which is different to the female groin guard. Very valid point.
This all comes from postmodernism.
To the tune of Baby Shark:
He's a bloke (dude dude dude dude dude dude)
He's a bloke (dude dude dude dude dude dude)
He's a bloke (dude dude dude dude dude dude)
He's a bloke.... 🎶
What woman are you talking about that happened today, whats her name?
What sport?
We have to keep on top of how many there are.
So frustrating
Boxing but I read it was a Person with an intersex condition. All the childhood pictures were showing a girl so this boxer grew up socially as a female and not trans female. But nonetheless it might be unfair if someone has more testosterone or shoulders like a man because of Chromosomes. It is not juicing or Doping but it is an advantage because of hormones so there should be a rule for that as well in my opinion.
@@bsrfuchs55 Intersex is a very offensive term to people with DSds.
They are not 'between' two sexes they are still either men or women, but with sexual disorders, such as undescended testes, but there are many variations.
In certain countries they are brought up as women, or claim to be for a variety of reasons, not least increasingly as a sports advantage.
Men still go through puberty with all the advantages.
Is it though? They're saying its XX online?
Im a bit dubious about this "anti israel" march and nazi salutes. Where was this? Belfast? London? Elsewhere?
London has had countless anti-Israel marches for months now. Including ones where Muslim men holding ISIS flags chant “Death to Jews” and “Intifada” and there’s been assaults on Jews too. This is a growing problem
If you are so much fir truth then do try to find out before speaking. In short; under the sha Iranians werenot even treated as guests in their own country. Foreign playboys were allwed to do whatever they liked in Iran, buy whatever resources they liked in Iran, allowed squeeze out Iranians from any business and so on. Iranians rightly rose up for democracy and social democracy. Well they called themselves communists but didn't have a cummunist program. At the moment when they won, old religious power structures took over, stole the revolution they had not worked for, and made Iran a religious state.
I’m sorry, I’m not listening to this anti Trump tirade.
❤🇬🇧
Despite many people peaking and despite evidence to the contrary, the T issue is here to stay. I'm very pessimistic about our overcoming it and turning things around.