I like how there’s now a sitcom about people working in a big box retail store in an attempt to connect with the downwardly mobile American public who can’t even get office jobs anymore. 45 years from now I can’t wait to watch the sitcom about a bitcoin miner who never leaves his iso cube and the wacky antics he gets up to in the metaverse.
The UK Office was produced by two weirdos on a publicly funded channel. The US Office was produced by a subsidiary of General Electric and then Comcast. Of course the message was going to end up being something Peggy Noonan would be comfortable with. I’m baffled by how many Americans declare watching and rewatching that US version as a comfort thing. Stockholm Syndrome indeed.
She actually said you learn how to integrate with a diverse group of people? Offices preselect people based on similarity at the tail end of a process, education, that already pre-selects and routes people. Then it takes those pre-pre-selected people and compartmentalizes them into departments focused on one goal. The constituting of an office is a very explicit de-diversification process.
Like the star trek episodes where the Borg drone gets separated and experiences the existential horror of self realization and loneliness and wants back in.
Watching Patrice and Craig Robinson talk in the warehouse would’ve been a superior show. Imagine the meta of actual working class people bullying the upstairs English premise.
Peggy Noonan missed the whole point of The Office, Madmen and others. The characters were trapped in a corporate hellscape full of alienation, frustration and abuse. Any aware person having experienced this subculture does not find it endearing.
The only time you do envy office work is if you've only done retail and hospitality and you have wildly inconsistent shift work and never get weekends or agreed upon holidays like 'real jobs' do. The actual work nah probably not looks really boring
I literally went back to being a trash thrower. I’m autistic and the forced conversations in office life was just not doable. I even enjoyed the spreadsheets, but really didn’t enjoy the boss saying “that’s not how we do things here,” with that thing having the formula in a column of cells not reflect net but gross due to a pasting error who knows how long ago. I agree the weekends off were quite nice but I was miserable otherwise lol
This is true, lots of Americans would gladly trade for a boring upper middle class position. The left shouldn't forget how much work is done that sucks, often as an only resort for generally overqualified people in a crumbling economy
@@JStack I feel you, I'm not autistic like yourself but no conversation is forced it can feel like it but they get the hint that this is boring and you should piss off. It sucks you liked an aspect but a corporate stooge was overzealous over a job. If you're even marginally happier then it was worth leaving.
@@muscularclassrepresentativ5663 I get what our lovely Chapos mean but they may have just been out of standard employment where they forget that retail and hospitality can be as mentally crushing as a white collar job. I'm by no means an accelerationist but the sooner the economy collapses the better, a concept which functionally doesn't exist for anyone who has to work but strangely never gets to keep any of it.
I worked in an office (consultant lol) for a few years and felt like I was going to die. It was even more boring and pointless than school. I thankfully escaped to the trades and eventually ended up where I am now: city gardener. The money is peanuts but I get to spend my days outside doing actual work. Noonan is a delusional fool and a prime example of the dirty secret of office work: you have to be lazy as shit with no useful skills to like it.
I have two great concerns about Peggy Noonan : that she is having a nervous breakdown; and more importantly that she doesn't know how to watch television.
Demystify my home all you fucking want if I can spend 70% of my day watching cartoons for the same pay I was making going into the office 40 hours a week.
The idea that the end of the office might have meant that a show about offices… one that satirizes the stupidity and ridiculousness of OFFICES might not have happened… it’s too fucking good. This kind of circular reasoning is what makes offices so great.
One time someone stood in my cubicle with their ass to me while they talked to someone in the adjacent cubicle. Yadayada I was almost fired. I can't help but wonder what would Gladwell have done.
Another insidious part of working from home not discussed is that there is a lot more oversight to ensure people are filling their time. What was once the occasional head poking around a corner asking how things are going, is now a weekly email asking for a breakdown of activities/tasks. It's like a golden age for middle management. I've only ever worked white collar 2020 onward so I don't know what it was like pre-pandemic, but my colleagues have made it clear that they could get away with doing a lot less work before remote working.
Well this is probably dependent on the office culture, but generally speaking there is less oversight in most outfits in my estimation. However, I think that's just because WFH spy technology hasn't caught up yet and also the labor market favors workers currently. Those two things can change quickly and people could be facing (effectively) mandatory video monitoring and all kinds of intensive measurement of output. That's when middle management will really experience a boom, when they are greenlit to create all kinds of checklists and worksheets to gauge output/torture you because you can't easily quit and find another job.
Lol wtf are you talking about, there is way less micromanagement now. That's half the reason they want us back, grind us back under the heel of micromanagement.
I have an email job that pays very well. My life changed when we all went remote. I was an employee that didn't telework because I wasn't as productive and felt people were lazy. After going 100% remote, I wouldn't ever go back to the office. Ir made me realize that what I do is total bullshit and it's not worth investing my soul in. Remote work allows me to keep a distance and keep things in perspective.
One thing I getting from the Peggy Noonan article and this discussion and a few others, is that there is a general misunderstanding of what loneliness is. My view is that lack of offices make middle managers and upper management feel lonely, because they were getting a power rush from it.
As someone who was literally homeless until the november before last, living in a tent city - Why don't we turn all those "depressing" empty office buildings into affordable housing?
Genuine "devils-advocate" answer: because it would be WAY harder than it seems. Office buildings and apartment buildings, despite their similarities, are not built very similarly. All the plumbing is typically centralized into a single location on each floor. The bathrooms, water fountains, and kitchens tend to all be near each other, and stacked upon one another floor to floor, with no plumbing anywhere else. Far less windows. Double height drop ceilings make for awkward renovations since it's all currently built for ease of maintenance and use. Obviously it's a good idea and I hope it happens eventually, but it won't be as easy as you might imagine, just smacking up some more walls and doors where there used to be cubicles and desks
@@hu4d "All the plumbing is typically centralized into a single location on each floor. The bathrooms, water fountains, and kitchens tend to all be near each other, and stacked upon one another floor to floor, with no plumbing anywhere else. Far less windows. Double height drop ceilings make for awkward renovations since it's all currently built for ease of maintenance and use. " All of this still sounds WAY better than the 2 person tent I lived in during November in Ontario, Canada lol
@@TheLokiBizyou could have community showers and bathrooms, like a military squad bay. Then as soon as someone gets assaulted in one say goodbye to that.
@@itsAmeOFP Yeah, instead lets have private showers, like normal people get to have. The unhoused are human beings, and really deserve homes just like anyone else (and studies have shown that literally just giving them homes would be cheaper than the status quo). Homeless folk, I havent seen any stats showing they're any more like to be sexual predators (if anything, in my experience they're far more at risk of such things - especially female and queer homeless people). The military, on the other hand, happens to have a _lot_ of issues with such predators. So I don't know the relevance of the end bit....
I don't know who Peggy's been talking to, but my team has been 80% to 100% remote since the onset of the pandemic, and we're still an extremely cohesive and congenial group. In-office days have their charms, but I don't think anyone feels bereft when they WFH.
Its just strange to hear about since Ive never had a job that could even be accomplished "from home" so it all just seems like very first world problems to me. Be happy you have a job that can be done on a computer. During covid I was out working like normal because I had no choice.
“game of thrones was the last water cooler show” tell that to my coworkers who never stop blathering about stranger things and whatever else is in the netflix trough
I steered well clear of Stranger Things and every other gang-o-kids work made by people trying to convince me that The Goonies is the greatest film ever made.
Classic Lost syndrome. First season was made on a budget of like 50 bucks and a bushel of apples. So no one thought it would go past that. And when it blew up, the Duffer Bros immediately ran out of ideas so they figured louder and everyone yelling all the time was the way to go.
@@ChewyThomson You mean the TV series, Lost? Cos that pilot was a make or break moment for ABC and they spent an ungodly amount of money on the plane crash sequence.
@@PurushaDesa Yeah. It similarly did gangbusters when it first came out but as ths series went on, it was obvious that the showrunners had no idea what they were doing, had no overarching plan for the story and were making it up as they went along (unlike say, Mad Men, which had a very satisfying series arc and finish) and as a result, Lost is kind of a joke now. I feel the same about Stranger Things. Strong first season and now, subsequent seasons of nonsense. Well produced and fun nonsense but nonsense nonetheless.
Renting space in an office building must cost a significant amount. Larger companies must be spending a ton on it. Aren't they making a LOT more money not having to do that?
@@howilearned2stopworrying508 saw something about how Gen Z in Japan aren't drinking as much as their parents and how the Japanese government was actually pushing for more alcohol consumption, as they were hurting from falling tax revenue. How ghoulish is that?
Working in a building with people is supposed to feel shit. You are not designed to like strangers but the turmoil of interacting with them is definitely part of your conditioning. Just find ways to fuck with people but subtly/privately show them true compassion.
The people who don’t want “office life” to end are the same people who will drive 10 miles to stand in line for two hours because one particular Starbucks is giving out one free cup of coffee to all customers that day. That is their idea of fun. That, and watching Criminal Minds.
The idea that the end of the office might have meant that a show about offices… one that satirizes the stupidity and ridiculousness of OFFICES… it’s too fucking good. This kind of circular reasoning is what makes offices so great.
I love working from home. That being said I have a ton of friends outside of work, close to my family, and an awesome gf. My co worker is quite the opposite and feels incredibly alone and isolated. This shit would be awful if I didn’t live close to my college friends
Well, for those of us guys with weak bar game and social networks only sparsely populated with the opposite sex, the office environment was a goldmine for hookups and fraught romantic relationships. People who can't form their own intros could still get some. Go online yeah yeah but if you're over 30 is that the thing to do, really? The simultaneous dissolution of the office and accelerated growth of online dating will be, probably by far, the most impactful aspect of the WFH revolution.
What? Hooking up with coworkers is a fucking idiotic idea. If/when things go belly up, now you gotta see this person and potentially work on projects with them every day? Stupid.
I always think it's weird when he mispronounces words because he uses a lot of semi exotic ones, implying a large vocabulary/word smithiness. Maybe it's just a thing that happens when you read aloud. Then again I hear a lot of people mispronounce a lot of words in social media generally and I've always wondered what's up with that. Why are people intent on using words they have never uttered before?
Big difference between the brilliant The Office and the shitty US sitcom that also shares the same name, which is basically the puerile show “friends” set in an 0ffice 🦄
I like how there’s now a sitcom about people working in a big box retail store in an attempt to connect with the downwardly mobile American public who can’t even get office jobs anymore. 45 years from now I can’t wait to watch the sitcom about a bitcoin miner who never leaves his iso cube and the wacky antics he gets up to in the metaverse.
I mean that was sort of Ready Player One.
wacky metaverse antics is already its own extremely popular subgenre of anime
The next sitcoms will be about nearly or fully homeless delivery app drivers
I do remember being 23 smoking weed and enjoying that show because I *also* worked in retail. I liked the little customer transition scenes.
the me-too movement did a lot of damage to mentoring; these entitled millennials just don't want to sit on their boss's lap any more 🗽😢
“The Office gave itself Stockholm syndrome” is big brain content
It's true though
@@pr00de that’s why it’s big brain
The UK Office was produced by two weirdos on a publicly funded channel. The US Office was produced by a subsidiary of General Electric and then Comcast. Of course the message was going to end up being something Peggy Noonan would be comfortable with. I’m baffled by how many Americans declare watching and rewatching that US version as a comfort thing. Stockholm Syndrome indeed.
The Office evolved into the equivalent of a slice-of-life anime for middle class America. It is 100% parasocial comfort food
@@emmy8526 General Electric and then Comcast which is- a subsidiary of the Sheinhardt Wig Company.
She actually said you learn how to integrate with a diverse group of people? Offices preselect people based on similarity at the tail end of a process, education, that already pre-selects and routes people. Then it takes those pre-pre-selected people and compartmentalizes them into departments focused on one goal. The constituting of an office is a very explicit de-diversification process.
Like the star trek episodes where the Borg drone gets separated and experiences the existential horror of self realization and loneliness and wants back in.
🤣
Watching Patrice and Craig Robinson talk in the warehouse would’ve been a superior show. Imagine the meta of actual working class people bullying the upstairs English premise.
Write up a spinoff and send it to our beautiful small office workers at NBC.
@@spartan117q13 you can just animate O and A clips at your own discretion, peacock
I loved all the warehouse moments in The Office and the utter contempt they showed towards Michael and the office workers.
Peggy Noonan missed the whole point of The Office, Madmen and others. The characters were trapped in a corporate hellscape full of alienation, frustration and abuse. Any aware person having experienced this subculture does not find it endearing.
that jew guy that kills himself, although the office uk is more direct and consistent with the message
The only time you do envy office work is if you've only done retail and hospitality and you have wildly inconsistent shift work and never get weekends or agreed upon holidays like 'real jobs' do. The actual work nah probably not looks really boring
I literally went back to being a trash thrower. I’m autistic and the forced conversations in office life was just not doable. I even enjoyed the spreadsheets, but really didn’t enjoy the boss saying “that’s not how we do things here,” with that thing having the formula in a column of cells not reflect net but gross due to a pasting error who knows how long ago.
I agree the weekends off were quite nice but I was miserable otherwise lol
This is true, lots of Americans would gladly trade for a boring upper middle class position. The left shouldn't forget how much work is done that sucks, often as an only resort for generally overqualified people in a crumbling economy
@@JStack I feel you, I'm not autistic like yourself but no conversation is forced it can feel like it but they get the hint that this is boring and you should piss off. It sucks you liked an aspect but a corporate stooge was overzealous over a job. If you're even marginally happier then it was worth leaving.
@@muscularclassrepresentativ5663 I get what our lovely Chapos mean but they may have just been out of standard employment where they forget that retail and hospitality can be as mentally crushing as a white collar job. I'm by no means an accelerationist but the sooner the economy collapses the better, a concept which functionally doesn't exist for anyone who has to work but strangely never gets to keep any of it.
@@GrimReader sounds accelerationist to me, nothing wrong with that either
As an email employee that loves working from home, these articles give me second hand anxiety.
ur middle managers have a fake job to protect too, if they can't walk around making ppl uncomfortable then who are they?
I worked in an office (consultant lol) for a few years and felt like I was going to die. It was even more boring and pointless than school. I thankfully escaped to the trades and eventually ended up where I am now: city gardener. The money is peanuts but I get to spend my days outside doing actual work. Noonan is a delusional fool and a prime example of the dirty secret of office work: you have to be lazy as shit with no useful skills to like it.
This clip has made me realize that my AVP has CNBC on at her house at all times. Stop telling me being in the office makes me happier.
I have two great concerns about Peggy Noonan : that she is having a nervous breakdown; and more importantly that she doesn't know how to watch television.
Demystify my home all you fucking want if I can spend 70% of my day watching cartoons for the same pay I was making going into the office 40 hours a week.
Grindr just fired 50% of their staff for not returning to the office (and unionizing)
Disgusting. I mean the people using Grindr
The idea that the end of the office might have meant that a show about offices… one that satirizes the stupidity and ridiculousness of OFFICES might not have happened… it’s too fucking good.
This kind of circular reasoning is what makes offices so great.
Malcom Gladwell never worked a day in their lives. What the fuck do they know about office culture
they / them malcom gladwell
One time someone stood in my cubicle with their ass to me while they talked to someone in the adjacent cubicle. Yadayada I was almost fired. I can't help but wonder what would Gladwell have done.
Another insidious part of working from home not discussed is that there is a lot more oversight to ensure people are filling their time. What was once the occasional head poking around a corner asking how things are going, is now a weekly email asking for a breakdown of activities/tasks. It's like a golden age for middle management. I've only ever worked white collar 2020 onward so I don't know what it was like pre-pandemic, but my colleagues have made it clear that they could get away with doing a lot less work before remote working.
I am micromanaged less under WFH. On check in a week and nobody really cares
@@Sneezes_LoL consider yourself lucky . many wfh jobs are highly monitored
Well this is probably dependent on the office culture, but generally speaking there is less oversight in most outfits in my estimation. However, I think that's just because WFH spy technology hasn't caught up yet and also the labor market favors workers currently. Those two things can change quickly and people could be facing (effectively) mandatory video monitoring and all kinds of intensive measurement of output. That's when middle management will really experience a boom, when they are greenlit to create all kinds of checklists and worksheets to gauge output/torture you because you can't easily quit and find another job.
Lol wtf are you talking about, there is way less micromanagement now. That's half the reason they want us back, grind us back under the heel of micromanagement.
Some work from home jobs require you to be on camera the entire time too. It’s insane.
I have an email job that pays very well. My life changed when we all went remote. I was an employee that didn't telework because I wasn't as productive and felt people were lazy. After going 100% remote, I wouldn't ever go back to the office. Ir made me realize that what I do is total bullshit and it's not worth investing my soul in. Remote work allows me to keep a distance and keep things in perspective.
they’re calling it “quiet quitting” and i am “going to kill myself”
One thing I getting from the Peggy Noonan article and this discussion and a few others, is that there is a general misunderstanding of what loneliness is.
My view is that lack of offices make middle managers and upper management feel lonely, because they were getting a power rush from it.
All of my God given gifts are best realized from my couch in my underwear.
If they don't communicate with you face to face. You do not need to be there in person.
Go back and watch Mimosa Peggy and Tweety drooling over lil' Bush on the aircraft carrier and his pilot package. Television at it's very best.
As someone who was literally homeless until the november before last, living in a tent city - Why don't we turn all those "depressing" empty office buildings into affordable housing?
Genuine "devils-advocate" answer: because it would be WAY harder than it seems. Office buildings and apartment buildings, despite their similarities, are not built very similarly. All the plumbing is typically centralized into a single location on each floor. The bathrooms, water fountains, and kitchens tend to all be near each other, and stacked upon one another floor to floor, with no plumbing anywhere else. Far less windows. Double height drop ceilings make for awkward renovations since it's all currently built for ease of maintenance and use.
Obviously it's a good idea and I hope it happens eventually, but it won't be as easy as you might imagine, just smacking up some more walls and doors where there used to be cubicles and desks
@@hu4d "All the plumbing is typically centralized into a single location on each floor. The bathrooms, water fountains, and kitchens tend to all be near each other, and stacked upon one another floor to floor, with no plumbing anywhere else. Far less windows. Double height drop ceilings make for awkward renovations since it's all currently built for ease of maintenance and use. "
All of this still sounds WAY better than the 2 person tent I lived in during November in Ontario, Canada lol
To force people to work
@@TheLokiBizyou could have community showers and bathrooms, like a military squad bay. Then as soon as someone gets assaulted in one say goodbye to that.
@@itsAmeOFP Yeah, instead lets have private showers, like normal people get to have. The unhoused are human beings, and really deserve homes just like anyone else (and studies have shown that literally just giving them homes would be cheaper than the status quo). Homeless folk, I havent seen any stats showing they're any more like to be sexual predators (if anything, in my experience they're far more at risk of such things - especially female and queer homeless people). The military, on the other hand, happens to have a _lot_ of issues with such predators. So I don't know the relevance of the end bit....
pfft she would instantly become annoyed and pop her earbuds in if her co-workers started burbling
I don't know who Peggy's been talking to, but my team has been 80% to 100% remote since the onset of the pandemic, and we're still an extremely cohesive and congenial group. In-office days have their charms, but I don't think anyone feels bereft when they WFH.
better for ecosystem better for work system as long as the work load is the same
Its just strange to hear about since Ive never had a job that could even be accomplished "from home" so it all just seems like very first world problems to me. Be happy you have a job that can be done on a computer. During covid I was out working like normal because I had no choice.
The irony, of a journalist, a profession of people that have been working from home for 30 years, to write an article shitting on work from home.
26:56 *feel good*
Peggy is just mad that she hasn't been banged at an office party in over 3 years. 💃
Peace love and solidarity!
Good lord, there’s a $100 LEGO set of the US Office now...
“game of thrones was the last water cooler show” tell that to my coworkers who never stop blathering about stranger things and whatever else is in the netflix trough
I steered well clear of Stranger Things and every other gang-o-kids work made by people trying to convince me that The Goonies is the greatest film ever made.
Classic Lost syndrome. First season was made on a budget of like 50 bucks and a bushel of apples. So no one thought it would go past that. And when it blew up, the Duffer Bros immediately ran out of ideas so they figured louder and everyone yelling all the time was the way to go.
@@ChewyThomson
You mean the TV series, Lost? Cos that pilot was a make or break moment for ABC and they spent an ungodly amount of money on the plane crash sequence.
even that ended in 2015 when they did not adapt books 4 and 5
@@PurushaDesa Yeah. It similarly did gangbusters when it first came out but as ths series went on, it was obvious that the showrunners had no idea what they were doing, had no overarching plan for the story and were making it up as they went along (unlike say, Mad Men, which had a very satisfying series arc and finish) and as a result, Lost is kind of a joke now. I feel the same about Stranger Things. Strong first season and now, subsequent seasons of nonsense. Well produced and fun nonsense but nonsense nonetheless.
We need office workers to breed faster, they are practically an endangered species.
I got a body high just listening to this.
I got about 11% gayer. Love it!
Renting space in an office building must cost a significant amount. Larger companies must be spending a ton on it. Aren't they making a LOT more money not having to do that?
property values must increase because governments that depend on property taxes need more income to pay off and issue more debt
You clearly don't understand the concept of the money pit
@@howilearned2stopworrying508 saw something about how Gen Z in Japan aren't drinking as much as their parents and how the Japanese government was actually pushing for more alcohol consumption, as they were hurting from falling tax revenue. How ghoulish is that?
This is probably the worst Peggy Noonan take since she called The Rock a white supremacist.
Malcolm gladbad
Man I wish I was part of a burbling ecosystem.
Working in a building with people is supposed to feel shit. You are not designed to like strangers but the turmoil of interacting with them is definitely part of your conditioning. Just find ways to fuck with people but subtly/privately show them true compassion.
CIA jimification
The people who don’t want “office life” to end are the same people who will drive 10 miles to stand in line for two hours because one particular Starbucks is giving out one free cup of coffee to all customers that day.
That is their idea of fun. That, and watching Criminal Minds.
"Callum Borchers"
"OK"
I can't believe you've done this.
oh hell yeah ive been waiting for something like this.
we should sit around and make the morlocks do all the work
“One of my favorite authors, Malcom Gladwell” ☠️
The idea that the end of the office might have meant that a show about offices… one that satirizes the stupidity and ridiculousness of OFFICES… it’s too fucking good.
This kind of circular reasoning is what makes offices so great.
Was Elian Gonzales rescued by angel dolphins, or UNCLE dolphins? Makes you think.
“Ar-miss-tiss” “fin de seckle”
Haha yes
Idk if it’s me or has Chapo not uploaded to there Patreon in a month or so???
its you. try removing it from your app and get the rss off patreon again.
I love working from home. That being said I have a ton of friends outside of work, close to my family, and an awesome gf. My co worker is quite the opposite and feels incredibly alone and isolated. This shit would be awful if I didn’t live close to my college friends
The burble of Peggy Noonan’s blood as it exits every orifice of her body while seated at her desk in the office.
GAMBO IS COMING
Well, for those of us guys with weak bar game and social networks only sparsely populated with the opposite sex, the office environment was a goldmine for hookups and fraught romantic relationships. People who can't form their own intros could still get some. Go online yeah yeah but if you're over 30 is that the thing to do, really? The simultaneous dissolution of the office and accelerated growth of online dating will be, probably by far, the most impactful aspect of the WFH revolution.
What? Hooking up with coworkers is a fucking idiotic idea. If/when things go belly up, now you gotta see this person and potentially work on projects with them every day? Stupid.
I know constantly mispronouncing words is just what this show's about, but did Will really emphasize the mis in armistice?
I always think it's weird when he mispronounces words because he uses a lot of semi exotic ones, implying a large vocabulary/word smithiness. Maybe it's just a thing that happens when you read aloud. Then again I hear a lot of people mispronounce a lot of words in social media generally and I've always wondered what's up with that. Why are people intent on using words they have never uttered before?
He's employing the nookyaler option
Network television is low brow and beneath me.
I prefer a flan.
Am I the only one who hates Michael Scott?
He’s not supposed to be likable..
@@wl2486 That's not what the majority have came away with because its a bad show
He is my spirit animal. Pretentious prick… jk😉
I hate that whole show.
the ending KEKW
Big difference between the brilliant The Office and the shitty US sitcom that also shares the same name, which is basically the puerile show “friends” set in an 0ffice 🦄
it’s crazy that getting payed 80,000 a year to sit around and gossip/ send a few emails is labor exploitation to these people.
So funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣