I like Morthal being this creepy high level area. When out in the bog at night you can be torn apart vampires and werewolves alike, but when out in the city you purchase the most unique and powerful things from other cultures. A Khajit katana, Dummer spell book of levitation, antique orc armor, etc.
I was just telling my wife last night they needed to lean harder into the haunted forest thing around morthal. Give me a whispering trees vibe, play with the lighting through the trees to make me think someone's following me granted this doesn't work with the compass and map but it would be awesome to have an area that disoriented you so bad you kept getting lost until it was night fall and now you're in danger.
Maybe the Agronians that live there planted a Hist sappling in the swamp. The Dunmer could be at odds with the Agonians as well about the Hist and want revenge for the invasion of Morrowwind. The Nords under Ravencone could act as a neutral barely keeping a lid on violence not taking sides. This also saves the Nords vs Dunmer stuff in Windhelm from be rehashed.
Yes please. I know it's been 10 month, but this was so good. Maybe when all of the ideal Skyrim videos will be done, FudgeMuppet could do a "Ideal Morrowind" video and a "Ideal Oblivion" video. That would be great
With your point about how in game the Nords primarily worship the Imperial pantheon, it would be cool if in Windhelm there's a nordic version of the Temple of the Divines, to counter the one in Solitude, further showing tensions.
@@younggrasshopper3531 That's a shrine to a single deity, I'm talking having a temple dedicated to multiple nordic deities such as: Kyne, Shor, Alduin, etc.
@Rose's Zen Garden I think that's the point. The Nordic Pantheon is largely underutilized and simply reduced to "imperial pantheon but with a few extra blokes" in the actual game
I was just as disappointed when Oblivion took the Vvardenfell Imperial cult, which lore SAID wasn't a thing that was present in Cyrodiil, the Divines' faithful usually splinter into factions and each county had their own chapel and culture... And then come Oblivion, not even 10 years later, and the only conflict there is is that one lady who wrote the books being all superior about her deity's city, and that is IT. Where's the cults? Why couldn't I get MORE about the Eight-And-One from the Knights of the Nine, again??? like c'mon, Todd, your lore sucks, leave the lore to the big boys like MK or the Battlespire main dev/programmer or go back to filing off the D&D serial numbers, don't make it GENERIC high fantasy!
@@neoqwerty Yes, generic is a great way to describe the overall lore presentation. Specific on present. Books and statues are filled to the brim but the WORLD is empty
@@neoqwerty You do know they brought MK back for KotN, right? He was part of the creative process, blame him for not writing more about the Eight and One
There's one thing missing that I think is important for this video as it's trying its best to stick to the lore and immersion: Cult of St. Martin. The man saved Tamriel from Dagon, with proof of the petrified Avatar of Akatosh on the Temple District. Some Imperials should care about him more than other gods, especially with the way you shorten the gap between Oblivion and Skyrim. With the Thalmor making claims that they saved Tamriel multiple times from many invasion, this cult can go both New Imperialist or Stormcloak. Also, by proxy of making the gap shorter, there should be some Oblivion Gate ruins (no active ones) in Skyrim. It doesn't have to be like Oblivion, we just need some to remind us of how catastrophic the end of the Third Era was. I suppose there should be a cult of Nerevarine as well for the Dunmers, but I don't think that it should be as prominent as Martin's cult. I just want some lore continuity, you know. The five games are rather close to each other timeline-wise, their effects should be visible on each installments.
Honestly while I doubt there would be any oblivion gate ruins it would be cool to have like a family heirloom of someone's be like the orb you have to retrieve to shut the gates, tie it in with oblivion a bit. And maybe also use it as a reason why the nords hated the ban of Talos worship as it was a Septim that stopped the oblivion gate crisis. I wouldn't necessarily say that the cult would be that present in skyrim thiight
@@fumarc4501 Of course, but some Imperial soldiers are from Cyrodiil (especially the higher-ups) and so at least some of them should be venerating The Last Septim as much as the Nine Divines, if not more. Also, by making the gap shorter there should be living veterans/witnesses of the Oblivion Crisis.
I just wish we had more Falmer ruins and Lore. If *Spears* were added, imagine a quest where we take Gelebor across Skyrim over to Solthsiem so we could retrieve the *Snow Prince's Armor and Spear* together?
Gelebor was a missed opportunity to have a unique follower. Not only in the fact that he was a snow elf, but also that he was a paladin, so restoration/warrior badass with master level skills. Make him as lively as Serana as well, moreso actually. It would also be interesting to see his commentary on how things have changed since the Nords took over. What would his reaction to the persecution of the Nords by way of the Thalmor be? Would it be contempt/schadenfreude? Or would it be regret/empathy with him seeing it as history repeating itself, only to end tragically? The quest for the Spear and Armor could've been a quest on its own like the Deathbrand Armor.
@@lazilycatharticone4191 Yeah, Gelebor was a huge missed opportunity. Yeah, I know he has his duty to the wayshrine and to protect the Chantry, but surely we could find a way to have something as important as the Snow Prince's belongings or other Falmer relics that would peak his interest. Plus, he now has the ultimate protection, a Dragonborn and a pure blooded vampire, so very little chance of getting killed and being the last of his race to die and render them Extinct.
@@perverse_ince Argonian invasion happens in the 6th year of the 4th era. The events of Skyrim happen in the 201st year. That is 195 year difference. Now that I think about it even the Napoleonic Wars are too recent an example.
@Sanguine You don't need new tech to rebuild. It makes sense that Merish reproductive rates would slow the process, and probably means Elves are doomed as a species. And good point about real wolrd ethnicities not recovering aswell, I'd say that is due to modernity overlapping with passed events. Like the population of Ireland never recovered after the Famine because by that time modernity reduced birth rates.
Making Balgruuf convincible to join the Stormcloaks should be like a hidden thing. If you took time to get to know Balgruuf and garner his trust it should be revealed as a possible dialogue. That way returning players get some cool thing they hadn't noticed before.
@@randyjax09 Balgruuf’s best friend/housecarl, Irileth, is a dark elf and stormcloaks hate elves. Even if he still worships Talos, Alvor (the riverwood blacksmith) mentioned that before the rebellion started the Talos worship ban wasn’t really enforced so siding with the empire was probably an easy choice for Balgruuf
@@lizziekiser6218 correction, Ulfric does not hate elves, he distrusts them. Why would he trust someone that never did anything to gain his trust. Heck, its like expecting Balgruuf to allow the Alik'r warriors in the town to "not be racist". Plus, I doubt Ulfric cares about what the other jarls bring to their court. As far as I remember the steward in Falkreath is an elf regardless of allegiance. Edit: Upon rereading the lore, Nenya was ex-steward, before she left Dengeir for Siddgeir. It was Malur Seloth that was steward in Winterhold under Stormcloaks.
I really like the point on Woad - seeing unarmoured combat make a comeback would be excellent and I especially like the idea of the animal symbols being painted on for particular attributes
This is why I never play without Ordinator- unarmed damage is increased based on your stamina and light armor skill, and since you basically get to 200hp and then pump stam for carry weight, an average person's build naturally would hit like a TRUCK unarmed.
I think you could keep the Dragon Cult stuff without having it dominate Nordic culture if you made it a lost century kind of thing. Like in Ysgramor's time Nordic religion was a bunch rival totem cults fighting over influence who were eventually subjugated by the dragon cult. Then after the Dragon Wars the Hawk (Kyne) Cult becomes the new head priesthood and erased all evidence of Dragon rule, changing history to say they united the cults and wiped out the dragons. That way then the dragons and a more active dragon cult return no one understands what it means and the player has to do a lot more investigating to find out the truth.
Thats a pretty good idea. As much as I like Fudgemuppet's video, I feel like taking out the dragons would hurt skyrim a bit. idk. Its been so long since skyrim was released that to imagine skyrim without dragons feels crazy
@@323starlight Oh yes, in the based game is just a little thing in the background as some dungeon have dragonic theme but then you have a whole DLC when this is the whole deal.
I am literally rewatching this and my fucking god you are a brilliant story teller. I loved Zaric's, "What if Skyrim was good?" Series, but this is just beautifully done.
@@Lady_Amelia-Eloise It is good, that's why it won GoTY 2011, but Zaric's a pretentious snob. I don't even know why he posts TES videos when he thinks the series peaked with Daggerfall.
Yes. If I want to be a be-ringed noble, flaunting my wealth with armor, unique sword, and blindingly dazzling set of rings….. Godd Howard says absolutely not!
The “grey quarter”is pretty much indistinguishable from every other grey quarter of the city of windhelm I totally agree that a city of more color would be a needed change
I know the Nords are primarily inspired by the Vikings, but Ireland had a Companions-like organizations in myth and folklore called the Fianna, bands of young landless hunter-warriors. Under the Gaelic Order, kingdoms were organised into tuatha (tribes or communities) that were fairly autonomous, not unlike Skyrim's Holds. The Fianna would live in the border regions between Tuaths, technically making them outside the law (not criminals though). Depending on the stories, they could be mercenaries, a group that trained men into kings for their own tuath some day, they could be bandits, or they could serve at the behest of the High King (or got to war against the High King if he's a dick). Also, I think Markarth should look less run down. If the Nords, Reachmen and other people have started living there for hundreds of years, they should be some of the best stonemasons in Skyrim, and certainly should have a city that doesn't look like it's starting to collapse in on itself. I'd also say that as part of the Hearthfire DLC, since you're already building your own house, why not put in a questline where you're rebuilding Winterhold, or even the cities after sieges
This Fianna thing sounds like something shared by many Indo European cultures, and reflected in their folklore: the Koryos. A ritual where young men of the tribe were sent out to be raiders and warriors attacking rival tribes and settlements, often painting their bodies black, white, or in other colors, and wearing animal furs, mainly wolves or dogs. It was a coming of age ceremony, and may have contributed to the spread of Indo European language and culture and genetics throughout Eurasia as these warriors settled in the lands they were raiding to create their own new tribes. The koryos is reflected in the Berserkers of the Norse and Germanic tribes, the Ephebos and Kryteria of the Athenians, the Norati of Armenia, raider groups dedicated to wolf gods in Vedic and Ossetic traditions, and more.
@@levongevorgyan6789 Could be. There are some parts of different cultures that are very similar, despite being separated by thousands of miles and years. Using Ireland as an example again, because of the huge taboo around hospitality, if you wanted to protest an injustice against you, you can go on a hunger strike outside their home. Something similar might've happened in India as well until it was illegal in 1861, which shows there was a practice, or at least knowledge, of it
I think having a Hist tree growing in the bogs of Morthal would add some interesting lore, and provide for some good quests and other activities making Morthal as well as making Morthal a hot spot for Argonian's who would be at home in the swamps in the north of Morthal you could even have an Argonian district that is located within the swamp. Additionally, the swamp may provide for a good fishing industry which I am sure the Argonian's would be excelling at with their natural abilities.
Would also provide the Argonian refugees an Alternative to Windhelm where they aren't even allowed in the city. Kinda surprised the Argonians were mentioned in the video.
Having more reasons for Argonians to be in Skyrim would have been nice. They seem to be doing alright for themselves atm. Repulsed a Daedra invasion, occupying swaths of southern Morrowind, and successfully seceded from the Empire. Maybe some quests involving the Hist trying to expand their influence? They knew the Dragons were returning and wanted to take advantage of the chaos? Maybe a reason why Argonians are displaced is because they were forces from their homes for being too “Imperial” by the An-Xileel’s standards. In the novel “Infernal City,”one was a-okay with purging “assimilated Argonians” from Black Marsh with the help of a “rogue” Hist. Otherwise I don’t think Hist go out of their way to wipe out their own people/servants/children(?).
@@fumarc4501 Whats interesting about the Infernal City is that Bethesda, intentionally using Ysolda in Whiterun, alluded to the "Sleeping Tree" being a spore that "fell off a floating island from the sky years ago". Its possible that the tree producing "Sleeping tree sap" is a Daedric Hist tree, and so much more could've been done with it. Tbh, the Infernal City sounds like a much more interesting main plot for a game than "Alduin the World eater", in my opinion.
I think people forget how big of a deal it was that dragons weren’t just “boss battles” when Skyrim came out. The first one was, but the rest were just out there, flying around and a natural part of the world. People loved this at the time, but now that we are 10 years in the novelty has worn off and people want the dragons to feel “special” again. It’s weird how time affects our perception of this game. It’s very important to try to recognize what is can be actually improved vs what we want to change just because we are so used to it.
Yeah, but it's more like smoke and mirrors. It may be visually and thematically impressive, but the dragons were basically a nuisance not really a threat.
I actually found the un-scripted dragon battles to be fairly repetitive and boring in 2011. Dragons are not mooks. They should not become throw-a-way monsters
@@krim7 I think they were made as random encounters to make you feel like badass who can take down a dragon whenever needed. If they just stuck to the couple dragons that show up during the story you wouldn't have felt the sensation of becoming more powerful over time that you have as you kill the randomly encountered dragons. However I do agree that they made dragons feel less special.
@@discordedwhoofs7873 Watch Gopher's play-through of Skyrim Special Edition. He has a mod that makes every dragon battle epic and difficult. His Lenny can only deal with them if he has half an army to assist him, like at the Western Watch Tower. Even then the casualties in Solitude were staggering - hardly a guard left alive and several merchants dead.
We absolutely need the Fudgemuppet team to write the script for a modded "Skyrim Reborn" project made by a team of modders who know what they're doing. This is too important to ignore.
The most interesting part of this for me was seeing how past games portrayed the Nords and skyrim compared to what we see today. I never really played any Elder Scrolls before Skyrim so the history lesson is always fun.
Yeah, for me after playing Skyrim I got into Oblivion & Morrowind aswell, wherein they portrayed it as so much cooler & more violent than it actually is. It’s like the boss as an enemy vs when you unlock him as a character lul
Oblivion and Morrowinds Nord and Skyrim Lore will always be more compelling than what we actually got in Skyrim, just like how Morrowinds description of Cyrodiils Geography will always be far more interesting than what we got in Oblivion
In the civil war mod, where you can side with the Thalmor, I feel it explains the high elves best with this one line a Thalmor agent says in regards to Talos. “It can’t be possible for a human to become a divine when it’s never happened to a high elf.” I mean, that’s all you ever need to know about those bastards.
@themanwithtomanyeyes8282 Talos wasn't a god like the Divines though, pretending he was is nonsense. He was no different than the Tribunal or Dagoth Ur. Also what OP said is bs anyway, all the Elven gods are believed to be Elves who ascended from a previous kalpa. So the Thalmor (and most High Elves) view the Divines as their ancestors. Therefore, the 'quote' OP used to summarize them isn't remotely the case in universe.
@@LordVader1094 Well, some of the Elven Divines were also Aldmer who ascended in this current Kalpa. Like Syrabane and Phynaster Some like Xarxes are debated, was he an Aldmeri shopkeeper who attained divinity, or was he always an Et'Ada, always at Auriel's side since the Dawn of the Aurbis.
@@LordVader1094 somebody clearly didn't play the Knights of the Nine DLC for Oblivion. In order to progress thru the quest u need blessings from all the aedra/nine divines which includes Talos
@@danielbob2628 Auri-El was always a god in their eyes. The high elves also believed they were all originally gods, who were turned mortal by being trapped on Mundus by Lorkhan. So when they say “hasn’t happened to a high elf,” they mean they haven’t returned to divinity.
I really loved seeing something as simple as a netch in the Grey Quarter. I loved a lot of these changes. So how do we get modders together to create “Fudge-rim”? Also, yeah you gotta do a video where you write what the story would be.
Markarth being a fertile land recently given over to mining could provide a very interesting new dynamic. The region could be struggling with a recent move into mining. The mass influx of mostly young men from the farms and villages of the Reach would lead to slums on the outside of Markarth, organised into various groups. The Reachmen, Redguards, Bretons, Imperials, Nords and even other groups should all be living in slums while the established families and bourgeoisie live inside the city walls. The mines could be organised by families amongst the Reachmen but also by certain ethnic groups doing certain roles. Meanwhile, the Forsworn could be the rural Reachmen resisting the move of their youngfolk to city, infiltrating the Reachmen population of the city. Dealing with this industrialisation, the motives for migration, and the tensions related would be interesting. This could also be a useful comparison to Windhelm, with the more marketised and cosmopolitan Markarth being better at integrating in some ways but worse in others. The exploration of a class system and the tensions between cosmopolitanism and social mobility could be very interesting. After all, you could help the established order, help the downtrodden, or try and bring them together in some way.
You’ve taken the disillusionment I felt after seeing Skyrim portrayed in Project Tamriel and turned it into an hour and a half of indulging in what could have been. It’s managed to capture all the grievances I had with how TESV left prior lore behind and make something productive from it. Thank you for this.
I absolutely love your idealization of this setting and it's almost painful that I couldn't be able to play it. Now what I want to hear you go into is about the dwemer politics of Skyrim in this idealized setting in the fallout with the falmer. I really do want to listen to you describe the plot of this ideal Skyrim.
I love Morthal in part because Idgrod is my favorite jarl. I love your ideas for the city! It would be cool, imo, if we had a more in-depth quest that deals with the mystical side of the Jarl's family.
As someone who has written an epic poem/song about the Dragon War, entirely in the dragon language, I'm hesitant to accept a timeline that erases the dragon war. Like, yes, it was shoehorned in and doesn't add much to the plot except for holding up the entire plot of Skyrim, but still! My saga of the three Nord heroes banishing Alduin to the future was so cool!
Wouldn’t Stormcloaks take some exception to the College of Winterhold having a Thalmor agent in their walls? Wouldn’t that cause serious tension between the College, Town, & Stormcloaks? Though I do like the idea of Dunmer being sent their to help, but maybe one or more would be offered a place with the College if their talents lie away from manual labor… but that would probably also be another point of contention between the College and Ulfric.
I imagine Ancano in this new Skyrim is just as much a haughty agent of the Thalmor as in the original, but he is ostracized and avoided because of the college’s traditionalist veil. And it’s getting to him. He holds up well on the surface and understands the skin-deep nature of the religion, but studious players can see the signs. At other Thalmor locations, you find messages and reports from Ancano, and they are unremarkable. He is prim, proper, and to the point, his words even lacking the usual drips of disdain for those he deals with. These are from before he arrived at the College, before his promotion after a previous successful mission. Within the Thalmor Embassy, in a locked room you can easily miss entirely, you find a set of reports similar to the ones on Esbern and Ulfric, detailing many more people the Thalmor are watching. The section devoted to the College is lacking, seemingly half-finished as they await Ancano’s reports. What few are there are distinctly different from prior writings. He is still proper, but he clearly dislikes those he’s reporting on. In the college itself, the signs are easier to spot. His quarters are at the end of a hallway, past several unoccupied rooms. Students and teachers are programmed to not sit directly next to him and some of the Nords will even cease conversation and remain silent when he comes near, waiting for him to get a certain distance away before resuming. As for the mer himself, he is a mess. He’s visibly aged despite being fairly young (and an elf), he keeps three daggers on himself for fear of attack, and Drevis Neloren is wearing his boots. He talks to few people, mainly Tolfdir and what few teachers will have him, but even they seem distant. He keeps strange hours, sleeping for only 2 or 3 hours at a time on a slightly randomized schedule. He can often be found alone in the library or on the roof stargazing. Talking to him nets you a cordial, if slightly stilted, greeting and a polite reminder that he is a busy man. Asking what he is doing here, what he is studying, and what he thinks of the school all net you simple, clearly rehearsed responses. The only way you get him to open up is asking about Summerset, which prompts a short reverie over his home before he regains his composure. If you stay hidden, you’ll hear him mumbling about dreams and magic, or repeating what sound like lines from an instruction manual or tutor he once learned from. Other than that, he mentions “showing these weaklings true magic” and “proving myself to her”, among other things. Standing outside his door or remaining hidden in his room will reveal he talks to himself constantly as he writes, only stopping when he eats, reads, or sleeps. His quarters are heavily secured. His door has two locks, one a standard door lock and the other a deadbolt he bars the door with whenever he is inside. The security doesn’t end there, as a tripwire just past the door will lift the cover off of a soul gem trap if tripped. Alternatively, his window can be opened from outside with some deft platforming (and perhaps levitation magic). The room is a mess of old papers and strewn books. He is clearly eating meals in here frequently and the focus of the room, his desk, is a morass of scribblings and notes. These are his reports, prior to edits and formatting that clean up the ones Elenwen receives. The vitriol is palpable, and a few notes were seemingly so unhinged he scribbled them out. A lit candle on a plate covered in ash suggests what he does when his anger gets the better of his writing. A few people have specific views on Ancano. Tolfdir (now archmage-equivalent) will remark that he provides a unique viewpoint, being from the opposite side of the map. Urag gro-Shub is cautiously dismissive of him, calling him "too young for his station, too dumb for his knowledge". Overall, most of students seem uninterested or amused by Ancano, although a few are fearful of what he represents. I've already rambled far longer than I intended to. TL;DR- Ancano is cracking under the college's ostracism and has become paranoid. He subconsciously seeks to prove himself to the students and teachers, even as they fear, despise, or laugh at him. He subconsciously seeks to prove himself to the college, even to the detriment of his mission there, and has become his own worst enemy.
@@pretzelbomb6105 It is pretty interesting, if they give us the chance to side with the Thalmor or at least with Ancano it can be even more interesting.
I like your idea of the companions not being able to be ignored by the Jarl of Whiterun. They are the most skilled warriors with armed with the greatest weapons and armors. It is suicidal to make them mad at you.
If this was the case, I could actually see why people support the Stormcloaks, and it would actually be hard for me to decide lol. Dude I need to hear more, please make a part two with the main quests, I absolutely love these types of videos, they are not only some of my favorites from this channel but TH-cam as a whole
I like the idea of Dunmer representative telling the council of the stormcloaks that they are nords up against nords and how their clevermen would be useless and that his people will bring Red mountain Fire to his enemies in exchange for equal rights of course.
So, I'm absolutely for this, just about everything here... except for the complete removal of dragons from the game. I would rather keep them as an element, but maybe more in that animal of reverence role that the Nordic pantheon is all about.
Yeah, it certainly seems like there would be a way to keep the monster in the game without the lore of "They're returning because Alduin is trying to destroy the world." That dragons are returning is very cool. I want a better reason for it than that, however.
@@BillWiltfong(Note that this is written before finishing the video, I might mention something already said) Imagine if you will, Delphine was already suspicious of Thalmor agents being behind the return of the dragons. She seemed convinced. What if, considering the Thalmor-centric plotline proposed, Delphine is still a large character in the game. She simply plucks you out of the crowd after you defeat Mirmulnir, and recruits your help to discover if/how the Thalmor are doing this. The Blades will reform to assume their role again as dragonslayers, but also with a small scale team you work with. This would include Delphine and Esbern, working to cut off the branch of Thalmor responsible for the Dragons. This would give the player the option of stopping the wild dragon encounters by completing this line of quests and vanquishing this group.
The Companions as an Order of Knight “Barbarians” without the Werewolves would have been more interesting. At least, not to the extent that it went to the corruption of the organization.
I’d like the Companions split three ways. The main faction of knight barbarians, the off shoot that fancies themselves werewolves, and the silverhand which is a splinter of the main faction that feel it is their duty to take out their misguided werewolf brethren, and all sides would be joinable.
@@Etticos. Counter proposal: you can't actually join the knight barbarians because they're veterans and high ranking, but depending on who you join and what choices you make you can end up becoming a part of them
As someone from there I suspect some of the inspiration for Hjaalmarch came from the region of the Fens in East England. Historically the marshy area was avoided and the people were subject to much superstition. People told stories of how the locals had webbed feet, and how monsters like willow the wisps would lure you into the marsh to drown. The thorough network of inland waterways and flooded land offered prospects in the form of Eel fishing, fertile seasonally flooded pasture and wealthy ascetic island monasteries. However it also made the region vulnerable to Viking raids and disease. It was a region that land based campaigns always avoided; the monastic island city of Ely was the last place to be captured by the Normans. It took five years to be conquered after Harold, the last Anglo Saxon King, was killed in the decisive battle of Hastings. As the doorstep to Solitude in the civil war questline Hjaalmarch should probably be a lot more difficult to invade with all the terrain and attrition; it would probably justify some sort of shallow hulled boat naval battle to take it. Building off that stuff would be the way I would suggest that you could make morthal feel less one dimensional than a boggy back end of nowhere town.
I’d just like to say, well done. I didn’t expect it to, but just seeing the bigger cities and more established setting with real variety to each of these locations captivated me fully. I *need* to play this Skyrim, I want to see the depth and conflict and immersion that comes from all of the improvements and changes that you suggested. With a properly built world that really goes deep on the conflict between the Empire and the old Nordic way of life, Skyrim feels *so* much more alive to me, I could almost feel myself playing this version of Skyrim as you talked about it. This is an excellent video, and all I can hope for now is that a team builds a mod that makes Skyrim into this version, your version, that it always should have been. Excellent video!
I think the division of Skyrim within the civil war needs a tweak. There's a reason real civil wars are typically north/south. East/west cultures (within their own civilizations) tend to be relatively similar due to similar environments and climates. So instead of splitting Skyrim between east and west, it should be north and south. Southern Skyrim would be more imperialised, due to proximity to Cyrodiil whereas northern Skyrim would be more nationalistic and independent from Cyrodiil.
West Skyrim is also on the border of high rock, which is much more imperialised compared to morrowind in the East. it would make a lot of sense if riften, falkreath, markarth and solitude were Imperial; Windhelm, winterhold, and dawnstar were stormcloaks; and whiterun and morthal were both neutral
What? The English Civil War wasn't north vs. south. None of Rome's many, many civil wars were north vs. south. There are innumerable cases of civil wars breaking out in states that were so small that any climate difference between north and south was negligible. This is a ridiculous assertion.
@@tbotalpha8133 war of the roses, north & south England were generally divided on who they supported from what I remember. Rome was a massive, whole other beast & had unique circumstances for their civil wars which is the exception, not the rule (with many of their civil wars being somewhat north/south based, that or the two factions so far away they might as well be north & south). Generally speaking almost every civil war throughout history where the warring sides weren’t divided by water or other lands was north & south based. All of yours & my reasons for why other civil wars aren’t between north & south do not apply to Skyrim, & as such proposing that it should be so is a perfectly fine assessment.
@@cykasoviet831 I am looking through Wikipedia's list of civil wars as I type this. So, so many of these wars were not north vs. south. Many of them didn't even have a clear axis, but instead multiple competing groups fighting in all directions. And even in the cases that they were north vs. south, many of them were happening in countries that were so small that there was no real difference in climate between the north and the south. And therefore no climate-driven difference in culture between the two regions. Furthermore, actually reading the listed causes of said wars, most of them were caused by political elites revolting against their overlords. Not because of cultural differences, but because of dynastic squabbling, legal disputes and succession crises. Your north/south climate-culture position is nonsense.
Amazing video. One of the best things about this channel compared to many other ES channels is that you guys criticize in a extreme respectful way and I feel like Bethesda will be much more flexible and comprehensive to these criticism
My change - make destruction magic have actual damage scaling instead of just having perks increase the damage by fifty percent. It is tedious to try to kill enemies with it on legendary difficulty. I want my spellblade build to include more spells and less axe, more like 50/50 axe-to-magic than the 70/30 it actually is. At least I use my healing spells alot... I agree on everything you said, either way.
This is exactly what I commented on yesterday's podcast. Skill levels should be for scaling, and perks should be for augmenting playstyle. None of this "10% better deals" or "fear spells work on higher level enemies" bull crap. If I have 100 in Destruction then my flames spell should reflect that, not that I bought the requisite perks. Leave stuff like bribing guards, ice spells causing paralysis, stealth rolling, and axes causing bleed to the perks.
Honestly, I think a lot of the upsides of this setting aren’t incompatible with a more restrained use of the dragon lore. Trying to merge both lore versions of the Voice could actually prove very interesting. A fun watch, thank you! :)
I like the idea of the Dunmer Stormcloak Soldiers, I imagine them with bonemold armor but of poorer quality, bone colored instead of the bright yellow of traditional dunmer armor because of the lack of materials, plus a kind of syncretism, making bonemold helmets but in the style of the Norse helmets (like the iron one, but without horns and much tighter) accompanied by quintin boots and gauntlets made of Chaurus (The falmer use them to build a lot of things, I would not see it so strange that some dunmer use them as substitutes). And then when you travel in the DLC to Solstheim you will see the contrast with the traditional dunmer armor and the "nordic" ones and see how despite the difficulties and the nordic influence they have kept their traditions as best they can.
After playing ESO over the years, I have notice the lore being changed was not really the problem. The problem i found with the game has been the writing, not lore writing but dialogue writing not just for Npcs but for the player as well. I think that is what New Vegas did right, It had good writing for npcs and the player and allowed you to change the story via speechcraft and other stats.
Though I recognize they are 2 different games I think they should REALLY take some inspo from Dragon Age as well. The thing those game really nails downs is characters. Characters you love, characters you hate, character you hate AND love. Characters that you mourn for, characters that make you cry. Just characters, characters, characters. In the end the best thing about any story is people (and animals heh), so if they continue fleshing out companions and other characters like they did in Fallout 4 I think they can get a real good game. I mean just imagine how much more fun it would be to explore caves if your companions not only commented more on things you do, but interacted with it. Got excited when you neared a cave. You bring a hunter companion and they give tips on tracks to a potential bear cave nearby. A thief companion points out targets that "for sure are carrying around a lot of septims". A bard or scholar excitedly writing down things you come across. There is SO much potential
@@Ghilannugs Better writing in dialogue/conversations can sell an otherwise poor story/bad retconed lore becasue they sell it to you in a way that makes you buy it. Bethesda however only have quest/level designers acting as writers. back in daggerfall and morrowind they had writers as desginers. Thats why they had the best stories.
@@Ghilannugs dragon age, and to an extent the current ESO made me hate skyrim's dragons. The dragons in ESO are way bigger than what they were in Skyrim, and while I don't think they need to be as big as what was in dragon age, it would have made one hell of a fight.
@@dfg3179 Imagine if we had to go to every region in Skyrim to fight different elemental dragons. In the swampy lands between Riften and Windhelm we fight a lightning dragon that electrifies any water you stand in, paralyzing and damaging you. High on top of a mountain covered in snow you walk towards what you think is just a bunch of snow covered rocks, but then you see just the slightest movement. "Who dares walk upon my mountain? Answer fast or become a part of my ice statues"
I agree, and at the same time I find it so strange. I remember when I was young playing Oblivion, one of the loading screens was a shrine to Peryite (I think, if I am remembering correctly), though I didn’t know it at the time and I thought it was a real dragon, and thought dragons were just super rare in the game, perhaps there was only one. So I would adventure, exploring all the caves and ruins thinking to myself that one day I’d finally find the hidden dragon and battle it. Eventually I found out that there were no dragons, and when I first saw the preview for Skyrim I was so excited for it.
@@Etticos. In the lore prior to _Skyrim's_ release, dragons had not gone extinct and were still around. In fact, in _Redguard_ (a game that came out in between _Daggerfall_ and _Morrowind,_ and was Todd Howard's first Elder Scrolls game as lead) the player, Cyrus, confronts Nafaalilargus, a red dragon that served Tiber Septim. And the Dragon Cult did exist in a sense, but really in the way it is depicted in _Skyrim._ Dragons were revered in the Nords' earlier, more animalistic and totemic religious expression still preserved by the Skaal. The dragons were understood as representative of Alduin, who _was_ the Nordic aspect of Akatosh.
A long dead secret society of Dragon Worshippers living among the people of Skyrim from AFTER the times of Ysgramor would have made them far more interesting. Placing the interred bodies of Dragon Priest in ancient Nord crypts in secret, recruiting new cultists by taking advantage of the recent civil war unrest. All this in preparations for the return of the Dragons. Maybe a good mix of the Mythic Dawn fanatics in Oblivion and the Dreamers thralled by the Blight from House Dagoth in Morrowind. Would have been way more interesting. Even if they were un-joinable.
@@Etticos. I think dragons would be more epic in Skyrim if we only encountered the named Dragons like Alduin and Parthunax rather than dozens of nameless dragons that interrupt our adventuring.
Aight, so I know this might be asking too early, but can you guys do an ideal elder Scrolls IV oblivion as well? I think that would be really cool. Also, who misses the old morrowind and redguard Dunmer voices, or the old morrowind nord/orc voices? "Seen any elves? HAHAHA"
Oblivion should have stuck to the old Imperial lore of Cyrodiil being a jungle and showcasing the Imperials cultural diversity a lot more. Have the Colovian estates in north western be like the cyrodiil we got with the cosmopolitan Europe feel while further south along the Nibin we see the more pagenistic and reclusive culture of the Nibinese. North Western Cyrodiil should have felt wealthy, technologically advanced and cosmopolitan. There we would clearly see the divide between the wealthy and the poor and we could see what the flow of information between the provinces has done for the development of new technology. There in north western Cyrodiil we can find steam engines, black powder weapons and a heavy focus on science and the arts. Basically, North western Cyrodiil should feel like renaissance Europe with the problems that come with it. To the south along the Nibine is where we get the more ancient, magical feel that shows us what the ancient Imperials were/are like. Here, people are still using things from the 1st era like hoplite shields, spears and more primitive style weapons. They have a deep fascination for the stars like their Nedic ancestors and actually are able to construct the starlight wells the Aylids invented. However the people of this land are much poorer and highly xenophobic towards non-humans. The dense jungles of this part of Cyrodiil make it much harder to create the complex societies then further north, meaning the people here are isolated and poorer, generally sticking to semi-autonomous lordships instead of the central Imperial government.
Wouldn't it be cool if in the Midden, underneath the college, you had some master necromancer, perhaps a high-level veteran from the Order of the Black Worm (which would make sense now with your time crunch) trying to recreate the Black Worm cult? Perhaps you could expose him to the college or Jarl and have them defeated or you could join them in secret and pursue a mini questline in which you gain the powers of lichdom.
This video made me go Hollow, like, I love Skyrim, I have a painfully high amount of hours payed since the game came out, but like, god damn do I wish this was how it was
Been watching y’all for a while now, your storytelling is incredible. The lore brought to light completely changes and enhances the experience of the games. The emotion and character of your builds make them feel relatable(I saw so much of myself in the Divine Crusader) much love and respect gentlemen.
Something I always thought of in Skyrim was, they could just be like: "Yup, we won't worship Talos anymore, all these Temples of Talos are now Temples to Shor"
Shor or his more common name Lorkhan are not necessarily Talos right? The Cyrodilic Pantheon had a representation of him in the traditional pantheon which was the 9th divine or the "missing god" how they called him.. Talos technically would be the 10th divine by that logic because he is weird combination of the demi-god Ysmir Wulfharth, Hjalti Early-Beard and Surin Arctus Or am I wrong here? I always thought what Talos did to him was similiar as to what Sheogorath did to Jyggalag.. He stilll exists, he is just a shell of what he used to be..
The Aldmeri Dominion ain’t keen on Shor worship either. Shor and Talos are just two sides of the same coin that is Lorkhan-which the Aldmeri Dominion see as the original enemy to all Elvenkind.
I disagree with the banning Shor over Talos part. Lore-wise, the elves would hate Talos way more. The elves already dealt with Shor/Lorkhan by keeping him out of the mainstream imperial pantheon + perpetuating Lorkhan was a trickster. Talos’s memory is more recent. He destroyed the elves homes and forced them to join his empire. He has essentially replaced Shor as the “anti-elves” god.
I really hope the Skyrim Main Quest Remastered mod changes a lot of what you've mentioned. It has a lot of potential, and may ultimately make the stories even better than the original....though thats not too difficult. I also wish people would mention the Umbriel Crisis more. The proposed timeline would've taken place very shortly after it.
I’d keep dragons as well. But I’d make one change. I’d make the Thu’um and Shouts an invention of the Atmorens, however you spell the original name of the Nords. Because let’s face it, until the Dragon War dragons didn’t need 3-4 word shouts. They could just speak a sentence and breath fire or frost or whatever. And learning the dragon language is instinctive for them. Non-dragons on the other hand have to actively practice and meditate on a single word just to use it in a shout. So why wouldn’t the rebels have invented the Thu’um.
Thu’um as an imitation of Dragon Speak would be a cool way to distinguish the two from standard magic. Would make using the Thu’um less impactful, but the Greybeards would be the experts to tell who is and who isn’t the True Dragonborn.
I think you could merge them. Don't the Thalmor want a perfect, formless world? Alduin is the destroyer of worlds so that a new one can be created. Perhaps the Thalmor try to summon (perhaps succeed) im summoning Alduin and try to make him eat the world so their perfect world can come to pass. An epic battle with Alduin could still be the final battle in this case.
If the raids of Dawnstar happened, if they take port at Windhelm I wonder how the Dunmer AND Argonians there would react to recognizable artifacts, items, general plunder from there?
This new and improved Dawnstar could even have a call back quest to the elder scrolls travels Dawnstar where we go dungeon delving in ice caves one more time!
This reminds me a lot of Zaric Zhakaron's series where he, too, went through and corrected a lot of Skyrim in accordance with the lore that had already been established prior to Skyrim's release. I would absolutely love a Skyrim remake with both of you at the helm, because I love a lot of the ideas both of you bring to the table. Those ideas could be boiled down to these two statements, which I fully endorse: (1) Respect and incorporate the lore that has come before; (2) things should make sense both in their setting and according to real-world logistics (i.e., everything should feel real and be believable).
Something that could still work, is Miraak. Instead of the First Dragonborn, he would be the First Tongue. The first who learned the powers of the Voice, who learned it beyond all others. And that led him to the 'Demon of Knowledge', Herma Mora. Who promised him knowledge even further than what he could learn, and thus he thought to make himself a ruler, and was fought to a standstill by Vahlok the Jailer. And his powers could include ones you can't get at all, perhaps instead of only Dragon Aspect, but every animal of the Nordic Gods, like an Eagle, a Snake, a Bear, etc. Thus making him a threat to every type of player. He's ungodly strong already, but his Voice allows him to achieve a strength so great and a true final boss. This also ties him better into the Skaal. He would be seen as corrupting the old gods, twisting what they stand for into gaining power. Thus if you side with them, they would teach you how to counter and nullify the powers he has gained. I don't know if you meant to imply that we'd still have the Voice in the game. Thus perhaps we could choose between the College of the Voice, the Tongues, or Graybeards. And each gaining different levels of strength depending on how far you go and what side you pick. Plus you might lose something if you're not a Nord, as a non-Nord, you'd be limited regardless of anything else you do.
I wish ESO was just a bit better man. I want to like the game so much but I just can't. The rewriting of the lore and additions that were never mentioned in previous games feels like fan fiction and I can't get used to the way the game plays
@@sandoh me too, I really do. Elder Scrolls is probably my favorite fictional world, so the idea of being able to travel Tamriel with my brother and friends was always a dream to me. But I can’t stand how World of Warcraft it is.
@@Etticos. honestly at this point I wouldn't mind if it played like world of warcraft because then it'd actually have a direction instead of this awkward catch all that doesnt really excel at anything. I like MMOs and I like single player RPGs. I feel ESO tries to do both at the same time and makes it feel kinda mediocre all around.
@@sandoh one of the things I really dislike about ESO is the way the skills work. Like having a bar of various skills really annoys me for some reason especially with the amount of extra icons it adds to the screen, where as with Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, etc there a minimal HUD. I don’t know, that may be a stupid opinion. Additionally to how I dislike how the skills look, I also dislike the function. For some reason the implementation of the skills just really kills immersion for me and makes it feel too “game-y”. Ugh, I could go all day with the issues I have with ESO.
So I’ve been in the process of moving, the tear down & re-assembly of my family’s house has meant my gaming systems have been packed up for nearly a month now. Watching videos that are current and re-watching so many others has made me long for playing Skyrim. Thank you for the time & effort you put into this project. I look forward to watching more videos in the future. Until Valhalla
I think even just a small change like making Jarl Ulfric more concerned with protecting the traditions of his people and less of... An ass. Ulfric was so hard for me to be sympathetic with.
Yea when taking into account the lore from the Thalmor, Sybille talking about how the king was a huge fan of Ulfric and would have listened to him seriously, and just his behavior as Jarl… He is just so unlikable for me. I know he’s a war hero, not meant to be particularly likable, instead respectable but… even that can only go so far.
i think this was intentional - if their leader wasn’t an asshat, i think most players would side with the stormcloaks as good rebels vs big empire is something that most people seem to enjoy
I mean if you'd have went through the stuff that he's went through in his life prior to the beginning of the game you'd probably be more of an asshole I mean I know my bias is to the stormcloaks but man he went through a lot
You know, another twist I would suggest for the civil war is that Talos is outward, like cannon, but as a way to get back at the Elves, they instead push Shor to be the new Ninth Divine while making Kyne more in line with Kynerath. Stating it was the powers of Shor that allow Talos to make the Empire, and Mead is finally acknowledging it instead of pretending a man is a god. In the canon timeline, it was stated that Skyrim came in the time of need for the Empire and help win the final battle of the war. So let's say Mead was not as much an idiot when he realizes taking Talos out would cause problems. Therefore, he would try to make stronger allies by pushing Nord gods to replace some of the Imperial Divine, along with trying to weaken the Septim dynasty by suggesting they are not as divine. Something easy to do considering the number of times they damage or hurt the Empire in civil wars and such, along with times their line split from the first Emperor. Not to mention it would allow him to build stronger ties to other provinces into the Empire if he even expand the Divines to more than 9 to include others from other religions like the Bretons, Redguard, and maybe even the more tolerable Deadra as champions of mortals. However, it did create tension in Skyrim for several reasons. First, let's say, at the time, many Nords were abandoning their old gods in favor of news Imperial Gods. How would they take it being told that their conversion was for not going to take it, not well I think? Second, many would be angry with the whole idea of the Emperor being divine, especially in areas he is so revered like the Reach, Solitude, Whiterun, Falkreath, and so on. Third, even some of the more traditional Nords may not like Shor being made an Imperial God, especially if they change him like Kynerath. And n if Mead does expand the pantheon, how many Nords would like to acknowledge a Breton or Redguard god Ebonarm, or a Deadra like Malacath or Azura. Finally, it set up a different type of rebellion where instead of East verse West, it's a Northern West territory that is in rebellion, while the Southern East are loyal. As it makes the Rebellion seem more plausible as it is easier for the rebels to hold out against invading armies from the South due to the smaller border with only one direction of incursion instead of several seen in cannon. Especially if Falkreath and the Pale were made into a constant flip state like Romania during Vlad the Impaler's time. Not to mention it makes the rebellion more widespread to explain why the Empire is so thin, for it's not just a rebellion in Skyrim, but High Rock and Crydil itself, combined with the Thalmor supplying said rebels to weaken the Empire as they recover their strength.
I also think that the cleverman of the college of winterhold being the most that remember and teach how to enchant ice into stalrim would be very critical to Nord culture.
I feel like Dawnstar should also have had stuff showing the Vigil of Stendarr, less brutish Vikings looking to fight demons instead of villagers would join there to get their honor and treasure
I loved the Elder Scrolls RPG you guys did a few years back - I think a really detailed setting like this with so much thought behind it would be a prime opportunity for another RPG series! I think FoundryVTT even lets you run an elder scrolls RPG. Anyway, just food for thought 😊
Dragons had superficial, and albeit awesome at times (and with certain mods) epic-ness while the Thalmor would've lent DEPTH to the game and overall plot. They also could have spawned off-shoot side quests and such. I am certainly one that wondered what the point of introducing them was considering how little they were involved and affected overall in game. Unless it was only an intro so that TES 6 could focus on them, but that may be giving too much credit.
The thalmor were the real enemies no matter who you sided with stormcloaks or empire, heck even the dragons weren't as big of a threat overall. If it wasn't for all the random crap missions delphine makes you do the dragon threat could be handled in maybe 3 hours. The blades being dragon hunters was cool but at the same time doesn't make sense, the empire isn't based in skyrim so how did the blades magically become the bodyguards of the emperor?
Honestky there should have been two main plots one being the civil war quest line that had the thalmor be the actual antagonist and depending who you side with you either straight up attack the embassy or you sneak in under the guide of an ambassador. And then you keep the dragon quest line of defeating alduin along with the dragon cult stuff as Imo the dragon cult isn't that bad of a "retcon" or break the lore as I see it they came over after the eradication of the snow elves and perhaps where only there a short time as people may have been getting fed up before the move from atmora, and then the dragon cult is sort of then forgotten about as all the other historical stuff happens, like it's history stuff like that just gets forgotten about
The issue with modern bethesda is that they have always had difficulty understanding anything when it comes to 'time'... mostly because they don't generally give a damn. The best example would be the Fallout Series; the most infamous being a Ghoul Child, who has been stuck in a fridge for over 210 years, has neither suffered from a lack of food/water (despite Ghouls needing to eat/drink, as established in previous games), and their body didn't atrophy from being stuck in a fridge... for over 210 years, with very little in terms of possible limb movement. Then there is the fact that, in Fallout 3, people are somehow surviving on simply raiding stores and so forth in a wasteland... despite being over 200 years since the bombs drop, where the food would have either outright decayed or become too poisonous to consume, or would have otherwise been eaten by humans or otherwise... yet they are still treated like they are scavenging food from a supposed 'recent' nuclear apocalypse, despite being over 200 years ago. Whilst Obsidian for example took a more reasonable approach by showing varying towns make use of their own farmsteads to survive and have a means to get food, whilst towns such as Megaton have nothing established to give a reason as to how they can properly survive without scavenging/hunting in any reasonable fashion... even though if the majority of plants have died out, then there wouldn't be enough herbivores (if any) to survive, and a place that is just full of carnivores is at best a feebly structured ecosystem that would be on the brink of collapse... despite the player being able to get Squirrels on a Stick as a form of food. Amongst other things.
It’s that they don’t seem to know their own lore as well. They need to look at the wikis for their own games more because they either get different writers in who are completely oblivious to the lore previously established or they simply just forget.
So, here's the thing for your Fallout 3 criticisms. Lorewise, the food not having decayed makes sense. It makes little sense that you'd miss that, considering the level of esoteric knowledge you display on the topic. And due to the overwhelming stockpile of such resources we see present, along with the extremely low population of the Capital Wasteland, it makes sense for most of it to remain unscavenged. The population of the Wasteland seems to be several hundred individuals, maybe a bit over a thousand tops. In an area that was stocked to provide for the potential wants of a metropolitan area whose population would be nearly (if not over) a million people at the time the bombs fell. Not necessities, their wants. This, in terms of foodstuffs, means the amount in stock would be dramatically higher than necessary to fulfill the needs of the populace. Not only that, it's also implied (possible directly stated, not sure about that one) that hunting is a fundamental part of fulfilling the food requirements of various settlements. So it's not *just* the scavenged pre-war food that is sustaining them. You mentioned the "too poisoned to consume" idea for food, yet don't bother to consider the notion that this could affect the way vermin and predators interact with that "food"... that is to say, it's likely they wouldn't even register it as food the way a human would. A plastic box with weird markings on it says food to us because we can read, to an animal it doesn't look like food unless someone teaches them to associate this non-food item with food. And the smells coming from something "too poisonous to consume", or just containing such powerful preservatives as to allow them to last 200+ years, would not indicate food to them either. Not only that, there are *heavy* implications in Fallout 3 itself that the food and water both make people sick on a regular basis. While you might be right in the most general sense with those criticisms, the Capital Wasteland is uniquely positioned to create a realistically functioning society based on abnormal survival methods, which directly contradicts the conclusions you reach and the logic used to reach them. Life does what it can to survive, and the Wasteland makes scavenging not only a legitimate plan for survival, but a predominate strategy.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 Gonna make this as quick as possible. A) Food as expiration dates. Even cans in Tin, which are capable of being 'consumable' for 100 years, are still both less nutritious/healthy than their newer counterparts, and after 200 years those tin cans are going to be even worse. B) Capital Wasteland was hit by a large sum of nukes, more so (accordingly to the lore) than most of the USA. The majority of food would have not only been destroyed/melted by nuclear bombs, which have such a high intense heat and explosion that they can melt a majority of structures (much less food), but any other food that exists is going to become extremely toxic due to the radiation. C) The added time of 200 years and radiation/intense burning fire is going to damage anything that was held as food hard. Even if the radiation has 'lessened', anything that was contaminated by it such as Food is going to still be extremely toxic as a whole. Tin, much less wrappings and cardboard, are not going to do much of anything to stop radiation from toxifying the food. D) The majority of vegetation is dead, and the few that exists such as from Herbly the Not-Ghoul is a relatively rescent addition to the Mojave wasteland, which has not shown any herbivoric critters taking residence on the small island of green. Many predators, especially the bears, massive scorpions, deathclaws, and so forth can not live off of just Nake Mole Rats. Nake Mole Rats that, due to their size, would require a LOT of food just to live, and they are at least 5 times larger than regular Mole Rats (and the Real Life ones can consume kilometers worth of roots; the Giant Mole Rats would have killed off any surviving vegetation due to their increased need of consumption). At that point, the eco-system would result primarily large/mega-fauna, with the smallest being Dogs (who are also carnivores). The only ones that don't, the two-headed cows, would not have any vegetation to LIVE off of to begin with.
@@Khotgor A) Some. There are foods with indefinite shelf lives that maintain both flavor and nutrition. There are some with indefinite shelf lives that foul in flavor but won't make you sick and still maintain their nutritional value. You speak out of ignorance here. B) The level of destruction we see is inconsistent with your conclusions. This is likely due to the obvious fact that people with a baked in cultural fear of nuclear war would probably have, at a societal level, simply accepted many changes in lifestyle to directly reduce the impact of that most fearsome event. In fact, it would make no sense for them not to, considering the time period we're talking about lasted for half of this fictional United States' lifespan. 300 years, and for almost half of it the fear of a nuclear apocalypse dominated their society. How can you even argue that this wouldn't have shaped their decisions? C) The thing about radiation is that, by its nature, time lessens its effect. This argument runs counter to your point. D) Your point about the vegetation isn't exactly... accurate. Dead trees, especially such small ones, wouldn't be left standing for hundreds of years. Perhaps they're not trees as we know them, but the sheer timescale tells us that those shriveled brown things are alive in some capacity. We also do see very clearly that there are grasses and bushes that very much still live. You're a bit incoherent with your thoughts on this point, but it should be fair enough to disregard most of it by simply countering the premise as I have here.
There is no evidence the ghoul child has been in the fridge since before the war, more likely a result of the attack on Quincy given his proximity. The world of fallout seems to include a civilization that has mastered preservation of both food and structures, it's plausible their food can maintain nutrition well over 100+ years. I agree with you on the strange state of Fallout 3s capital wasteland. When you consider Bethesda originally meant the game to take place only 50+ years after the bombs dropped makes the world's look make more sense. Bethesda really needs to tread old ground with Fallout
I disagree with Scott's No Dragon Cult/Last Dragonborn plot retrorecision ... but everything else presented in the video, IMO is dead-spot-on. I would LOVE to play that game.
For some reason, this makes me want to see more TTRPG of Elder Scrolls with you all. Ideally with Zaric as GM, playing in a 'corrected' version of 4th era Tamriel. I think the timing is right for those kind of videos to get lots of views. TTRPG channels are much more popular than when you did it last time.
It bothers me that Bethesda would remove spears when they were, literally, one of the most dominate weapons in history even late into the modern era. Ever heard of the Winged Hussars? Polish madlads who dominated battlefields with little more than lances and plate armor well into the 18th century. The removal of pole arms is just laziness.
@@kyliec0yote Try making your own universe with the things that inspire you about game literature and game lore then bro I've started work on projects to hopefully tell a story fully imagined and properly realised in a game for the player to explore, as everyone here can agree needs to happen for TES' potential vs its reality
Great video, reminded me a bit of Zarics a while back. Forgot about the orcs tho lol. Personally I'd like to see them paralleling the Eastmarch Dunmer, with influxes of refugees fleeing the destruction of Orsinium into the reach. They could clash with the nords and reachmen, and try to earn there place by mining and joining the legion. The strongholds should still be kept as well, just improved a bit and tied into the rest of the world. They could be struggling to stay out of the war, and recruiting individual strongholds or sacking them could be part of the Civil War questline.
Yep, Orcs would probably be the third largest group along side Redgaurds and Bretons in Markarth behind the Nord and Reachmen majority. The Orcs have lived in the Reach just as long as the Reachmen have and have warred with each other in the past and both races have been looked down upon by others to. So thier would be a interesting dynamic between them and the Reachmen. Some Orcs might be sympathetic to them, being fellow outcasts, while other might still hold grudges against them for the wars they have fought in the past for the Reach.
I think all of this would be an absolutely wonderful addition to the game. Ultimately a lot of it particularly involving the Thanes, comes down to the issue of size of the map. Skyrim should have been four times the size it was.
Almost the entire map of Skyrim is empty space, devoid of anything meaningful. Being 4x longer would only pad out the game time, and make trekking across the place even more tedious than it already is.
This is very well done! I feel like there is such great lore in TES that it is a shame they seemed to have not explored it as well in Skyrim as they did in past titles. Thanks for all the thought and work you put into this vision.
Amazing breakdown. I didn't realize just how inconsistent with the original lore skyrim was, same can be said about oblivion. I love both those games, but they retcon so much to make them work. This version of skyrim would've proved much more interesting to explore and experience.
I know you won’t see this, as this is an older video, but thank you so much for this. My biggest commendation is definitely on the timeline. When you suggested the changes, my first thought was “It isn’t already like this?” A suggestion I have is maybe doing a video on how you would improve all of the daedric quests, they were super lackluster in game. Regardless, youve reinvigorated my love of the elder scrolls universe, thank you!
@@miniespeon158 yes let's add underwater enemies that we can't fight ! seriously slaughterfish have such an annoying AI, wouldn't be an issue with underwater combat
I feel like Dawnguard is mostly “fine”, in terms of fitting into this new version of Skyrim. Other than a few minor things with the Snow Elves maybe. Hearthfire is fine too imo, it’s not that deep. Maybe an option to actually build your own settlements as opposed to just houses would be cool. Dragonborn is obviously a much bigger challenge given the integral nature of dragons and dragonborns. I really like the presence of Mora throughout the players story even before the DLC, and how he influences you into becoming his champion. It’s really cool imo and I’d be sorry to see it go. It could obviously be reworked into him using you for another purpose but idk. I guess the story of the DLC could be more about the refugee Dunmer aspect and really delve into their relationship with the Nords. You could have Nord sympathetic dunmer and maybe ones that are borderline nearing “rebelling” against them. It’s tricky, I like this new version of Skyrim but I also love how Dragonborn executes some of the dragon lore.
The war paint substitute for armor would actually be interesting. Maybe it could be "equipped" taking up an armor slot like any other piece of clothing. An explanation could be that it needs to be uncovered to work, forcing the shirtless barbarian aesthetic. As bodypaint it would have low weight and could be some hard to get item to balance this. I can imagine a questline where you have to go through ancient nord ruins to recover old, more powerful "motivs" (runes? symbols?) that grant more armor rating and magical effects than the standard paint. It could be about the nords, in their effort to become independent from the empire, reclaiming their ancient ways and customs. Ancient wisdom which had been lost through the empire forcing it’s way of life upon the "savages" and their "silly superstitions."
You put so much thought into this, and these changes make the world so much more alive and a lot of things make a bit more sense from a story perspective. I can't imagine how many hours went into this, but I really appreciate the great work!
I like Morthal being this creepy high level area. When out in the bog at night you can be torn apart vampires and werewolves alike, but when out in the city you purchase the most unique and powerful things from other cultures. A Khajit katana, Dummer spell book of levitation, antique orc armor, etc.
I like that
I was just telling my wife last night they needed to lean harder into the haunted forest thing around morthal. Give me a whispering trees vibe, play with the lighting through the trees to make me think someone's following me granted this doesn't work with the compass and map but it would be awesome to have an area that disoriented you so bad you kept getting lost until it was night fall and now you're in danger.
Maybe the Agronians that live there planted a Hist sappling in the swamp. The Dunmer could be at odds with the Agonians as well about the Hist and want revenge for the invasion of Morrowwind. The Nords under Ravencone could act as a neutral barely keeping a lid on violence not taking sides. This also saves the Nords vs Dunmer stuff in Windhelm from be rehashed.
@@chaosspartan4417 That be so cool
You say vampires tearing you apart, i say sanguine vampirus farming location
"If people really want me to, I can write a whole story for this setting"
*Do it*
Yes please. I know it's been 10 month, but this was so good.
Maybe when all of the ideal Skyrim videos will be done, FudgeMuppet could do a "Ideal Morrowind" video and a "Ideal Oblivion" video. That would be great
Dew it
I'm planning on doing just that.
@@fumarc4501 where is it
@@ximthedespot4673 Keep us posted on the progress.
With your point about how in game the Nords primarily worship the Imperial pantheon, it would be cool if in Windhelm there's a nordic version of the Temple of the Divines, to counter the one in Solitude, further showing tensions.
A shrine to talos is outside the city
@@younggrasshopper3531 That's a shrine to a single deity, I'm talking having a temple dedicated to multiple nordic deities such as: Kyne, Shor, Alduin, etc.
@Rose's Zen Garden I feel like that's Bethesda's fault as they in general underused the nordic pantheon.
@Rose's Zen Garden I think that's the point. The Nordic Pantheon is largely underutilized and simply reduced to "imperial pantheon but with a few extra blokes" in the actual game
@Bloo Berri talos is an imperial diety and not of Nordic origin specifically
I was gutted when i moved from oblivion to Skyrim and realised the Nordic pantheon basically had no presence in the game about nords
I was just as disappointed when Oblivion took the Vvardenfell Imperial cult, which lore SAID wasn't a thing that was present in Cyrodiil, the Divines' faithful usually splinter into factions and each county had their own chapel and culture...
And then come Oblivion, not even 10 years later, and the only conflict there is is that one lady who wrote the books being all superior about her deity's city, and that is IT. Where's the cults? Why couldn't I get MORE about the Eight-And-One from the Knights of the Nine, again??? like c'mon, Todd, your lore sucks, leave the lore to the big boys like MK or the Battlespire main dev/programmer or go back to filing off the D&D serial numbers, don't make it GENERIC high fantasy!
@@neoqwerty hit the nail on the head there, Todd just sucks and should let the real storytellers do their thing
@@neoqwerty Yes, generic is a great way to describe the overall lore presentation. Specific on present. Books and statues are filled to the brim but the WORLD is empty
Many of them are the divines by different names
@@neoqwerty You do know they brought MK back for KotN, right? He was part of the creative process, blame him for not writing more about the Eight and One
There's one thing missing that I think is important for this video as it's trying its best to stick to the lore and immersion:
Cult of St. Martin.
The man saved Tamriel from Dagon, with proof of the petrified Avatar of Akatosh on the Temple District. Some Imperials should care about him more than other gods, especially with the way you shorten the gap between Oblivion and Skyrim. With the Thalmor making claims that they saved Tamriel multiple times from many invasion, this cult can go both New Imperialist or Stormcloak. Also, by proxy of making the gap shorter, there should be some Oblivion Gate ruins (no active ones) in Skyrim. It doesn't have to be like Oblivion, we just need some to remind us of how catastrophic the end of the Third Era was.
I suppose there should be a cult of Nerevarine as well for the Dunmers, but I don't think that it should be as prominent as Martin's cult.
I just want some lore continuity, you know. The five games are rather close to each other timeline-wise, their effects should be visible on each installments.
Honestly while I doubt there would be any oblivion gate ruins it would be cool to have like a family heirloom of someone's be like the orb you have to retrieve to shut the gates, tie it in with oblivion a bit. And maybe also use it as a reason why the nords hated the ban of Talos worship as it was a Septim that stopped the oblivion gate crisis. I wouldn't necessarily say that the cult would be that present in skyrim thiight
Bet that would have more of a presence in Cyradiil
@@fumarc4501
Of course, but some Imperial soldiers are from Cyrodiil (especially the higher-ups) and so at least some of them should be venerating The Last Septim as much as the Nine Divines, if not more. Also, by making the gap shorter there should be living veterans/witnesses of the Oblivion Crisis.
Carful what you ask for we might get Skyrim 2. I'd love to see what cyrodiil looks like during the events of skyrim.
@@SuperHigh09
I don't have to be careful about that, I know we will.
I just wish we had more Falmer ruins and Lore. If *Spears* were added, imagine a quest where we take Gelebor across Skyrim over to Solthsiem so we could retrieve the *Snow Prince's Armor and Spear* together?
Gelebor was a missed opportunity to have a unique follower. Not only in the fact that he was a snow elf, but also that he was a paladin, so restoration/warrior badass with master level skills. Make him as lively as Serana as well, moreso actually. It would also be interesting to see his commentary on how things have changed since the Nords took over. What would his reaction to the persecution of the Nords by way of the Thalmor be? Would it be contempt/schadenfreude? Or would it be regret/empathy with him seeing it as history repeating itself, only to end tragically?
The quest for the Spear and Armor could've been a quest on its own like the Deathbrand Armor.
@@lazilycatharticone4191
Yeah, Gelebor was a huge missed opportunity.
Yeah, I know he has his duty to the wayshrine and to protect the Chantry, but surely we could find a way to have something as important as the Snow Prince's belongings or other Falmer relics that would peak his interest. Plus, he now has the ultimate protection, a Dragonborn and a pure blooded vampire, so very little chance of getting killed and being the last of his race to die and render them Extinct.
These are quest items in the Legacy of the Dragonborn mod
@@jaketaz2848
Really? Is it on Xbox? Is it a good mod? Like, the spear mechanics, are they good?
The Nereverine has the Snow Princes armour.
Please let this be a challenge for modders so that the next 5 years of playing Skyrim until ES6 are awesome
5 years? How I wish I had your optimism.
Trust me i take notes on these kinds of videos
As if modders haven't been doing this since Adam. Where tf have you been? Lmfao.
all modders are busy with Beyond Skyrim
You are very optimistic. I really like following the Beyond Skyrim teams.
The Dunmer still being affected by Red Mountain & the Argonian invasion is like Europe still reeling from the Napoleonic wars today.
they live a long live. for them time has another scale (badumtss)
More like WW1, which is more than 100 years ago. And its consequences have ruined Europe and gave China and America a chance at being a world power
@@perverse_ince Argonian invasion happens in the 6th year of the 4th era.
The events of Skyrim happen in the 201st year. That is 195 year difference. Now that I think about it even the Napoleonic Wars are too recent an example.
@Sanguine You don't need new tech to rebuild. It makes sense that Merish reproductive rates would slow the process, and probably means Elves are doomed as a species. And good point about real wolrd ethnicities not recovering aswell, I'd say that is due to modernity overlapping with passed events. Like the population of Ireland never recovered after the Famine because by that time modernity reduced birth rates.
Well we do. Napoleon rewrote the map of Europe.
Making Balgruuf convincible to join the Stormcloaks should be like a hidden thing. If you took time to get to know Balgruuf and garner his trust it should be revealed as a possible dialogue. That way returning players get some cool thing they hadn't noticed before.
That’s actually a great suggestion. I found it kind of baffling that he would side with the Imperials over the Stormcloaks.
Why do that when Ulfric will attack Whiterun anyways to get war control zones
@@randyjax09 he's not racists it's that easy everyone
@@randyjax09 Balgruuf’s best friend/housecarl, Irileth, is a dark elf and stormcloaks hate elves. Even if he still worships Talos, Alvor (the riverwood blacksmith) mentioned that before the rebellion started the Talos worship ban wasn’t really enforced so siding with the empire was probably an easy choice for Balgruuf
@@lizziekiser6218 correction, Ulfric does not hate elves, he distrusts them. Why would he trust someone that never did anything to gain his trust. Heck, its like expecting Balgruuf to allow the Alik'r warriors in the town to "not be racist".
Plus, I doubt Ulfric cares about what the other jarls bring to their court. As far as I remember the steward in Falkreath is an elf regardless of allegiance.
Edit: Upon rereading the lore, Nenya was ex-steward, before she left Dengeir for Siddgeir. It was Malur Seloth that was steward in Winterhold under Stormcloaks.
I really like the point on Woad - seeing unarmoured combat make a comeback would be excellent and I especially like the idea of the animal symbols being painted on for particular attributes
Seconded. Bring back half naked Barbarian berserkers!
This is why I never play without Ordinator- unarmed damage is increased based on your stamina and light armor skill, and since you basically get to 200hp and then pump stam for carry weight, an average person's build naturally would hit like a TRUCK unarmed.
I think you could keep the Dragon Cult stuff without having it dominate Nordic culture if you made it a lost century kind of thing. Like in Ysgramor's time Nordic religion was a bunch rival totem cults fighting over influence who were eventually subjugated by the dragon cult. Then after the Dragon Wars the Hawk (Kyne) Cult becomes the new head priesthood and erased all evidence of Dragon rule, changing history to say they united the cults and wiped out the dragons. That way then the dragons and a more active dragon cult return no one understands what it means and the player has to do a lot more investigating to find out the truth.
It is a good idea. I like the basics of the Dragon Cult just the execution is very very bad in the game.
Thats a pretty good idea. As much as I like Fudgemuppet's video, I feel like taking out the dragons would hurt skyrim a bit. idk. Its been so long since skyrim was released that to imagine skyrim without dragons feels crazy
@@323starlight It can be done, but I don't know why it have to entirly, maybe making them a smaller part of the narrative a good idea.
@@varisugocsay1152 Maybe as DLC. Make the Dragonborn DLC all about the rise of the dragon cult and their goal of resurrecting the dragons
@@323starlight Oh yes, in the based game is just a little thing in the background as some dungeon have dragonic theme but then you have a whole DLC when this is the whole deal.
I am literally rewatching this and my fucking god you are a brilliant story teller.
I loved Zaric's, "What if Skyrim was good?" Series, but this is just beautifully done.
A new challenger appears!
Skyrim is good though?
@@Lady_Amelia-Eloise It’s not bad it’s just not as good as it could be.
@Steele D then you've come to the wrong place ;-P
@@Lady_Amelia-Eloise It is good, that's why it won GoTY 2011, but Zaric's a pretentious snob. I don't even know why he posts TES videos when he thinks the series peaked with Daggerfall.
I wish that they had more armor slots than just 'outfit-shoes-gloves/bracers-hat- one ring- necklace-mask
Yes. If I want to be a be-ringed noble, flaunting my wealth with armor, unique sword, and blindingly dazzling set of rings….. Godd Howard says absolutely not!
Yeah, I would be happy with the Morrowind armor and clothing system in Skyrim. Amulet, two rings, clothes, several armor pieces, AND a robe.
@Fudgy nuggets you sort of can, but you can only do it with fur armor and ragged trousers.
@@DelinquentChibi Exactly!
@@sostrongineedmoreofyourmon974 Exactly!
The “grey quarter”is pretty much indistinguishable from every other grey quarter of the city of windhelm I totally agree that a city of more color would be a needed change
I know the Nords are primarily inspired by the Vikings, but Ireland had a Companions-like organizations in myth and folklore called the Fianna, bands of young landless hunter-warriors. Under the Gaelic Order, kingdoms were organised into tuatha (tribes or communities) that were fairly autonomous, not unlike Skyrim's Holds. The Fianna would live in the border regions between Tuaths, technically making them outside the law (not criminals though). Depending on the stories, they could be mercenaries, a group that trained men into kings for their own tuath some day, they could be bandits, or they could serve at the behest of the High King (or got to war against the High King if he's a dick).
Also, I think Markarth should look less run down. If the Nords, Reachmen and other people have started living there for hundreds of years, they should be some of the best stonemasons in Skyrim, and certainly should have a city that doesn't look like it's starting to collapse in on itself.
I'd also say that as part of the Hearthfire DLC, since you're already building your own house, why not put in a questline where you're rebuilding Winterhold, or even the cities after sieges
Shame AAA companies dont have soul. All this money just to make half assed research for even more half assed unfinished games
This Fianna thing sounds like something shared by many Indo European cultures, and reflected in their folklore: the Koryos. A ritual where young men of the tribe were sent out to be raiders and warriors attacking rival tribes and settlements, often painting their bodies black, white, or in other colors, and wearing animal furs, mainly wolves or dogs. It was a coming of age ceremony, and may have contributed to the spread of Indo European language and culture and genetics throughout Eurasia as these warriors settled in the lands they were raiding to create their own new tribes. The koryos is reflected in the Berserkers of the Norse and Germanic tribes, the Ephebos and Kryteria of the Athenians, the Norati of Armenia, raider groups dedicated to wolf gods in Vedic and Ossetic traditions, and more.
@@levongevorgyan6789
There are no wolf gods in the vedic pantheon.
@@levongevorgyan6789 Could be. There are some parts of different cultures that are very similar, despite being separated by thousands of miles and years. Using Ireland as an example again, because of the huge taboo around hospitality, if you wanted to protest an injustice against you, you can go on a hunger strike outside their home. Something similar might've happened in India as well until it was illegal in 1861, which shows there was a practice, or at least knowledge, of it
Yesss I want to rebuild as well hate it being ugly
I think having a Hist tree growing in the bogs of Morthal would add some interesting lore, and provide for some good quests and other activities making Morthal as well as making Morthal a hot spot for Argonian's who would be at home in the swamps in the north of Morthal you could even have an Argonian district that is located within the swamp. Additionally, the swamp may provide for a good fishing industry which I am sure the Argonian's would be excelling at with their natural abilities.
Would also provide the Argonian refugees an Alternative to Windhelm where they aren't even allowed in the city. Kinda surprised the Argonians were mentioned in the video.
@@JoeTheCynic well of course Scott would talk about Argonians, they're the best Dunmer gardening tools.
Having more reasons for Argonians to be in Skyrim would have been nice. They seem to be doing alright for themselves atm. Repulsed a Daedra invasion, occupying swaths of southern Morrowind, and successfully seceded from the Empire.
Maybe some quests involving the Hist trying to expand their influence? They knew the Dragons were returning and wanted to take advantage of the chaos? Maybe a reason why Argonians are displaced is because they were forces from their homes for being too “Imperial” by the An-Xileel’s standards. In the novel “Infernal City,”one was a-okay with purging “assimilated Argonians” from Black Marsh with the help of a “rogue” Hist. Otherwise I don’t think Hist go out of their way to wipe out their own people/servants/children(?).
@@fumarc4501 Whats interesting about the Infernal City is that Bethesda, intentionally using Ysolda in Whiterun, alluded to the "Sleeping Tree" being a spore that "fell off a floating island from the sky years ago". Its possible that the tree producing "Sleeping tree sap" is a Daedric Hist tree, and so much more could've been done with it.
Tbh, the Infernal City sounds like a much more interesting main plot for a game than "Alduin the World eater", in my opinion.
im biased, but i want this love for my marsh brothers and sisters. all we got was a hole in the wall
I think people forget how big of a deal it was that dragons weren’t just “boss battles” when Skyrim came out. The first one was, but the rest were just out there, flying around and a natural part of the world. People loved this at the time, but now that we are 10 years in the novelty has worn off and people want the dragons to feel “special” again. It’s weird how time affects our perception of this game. It’s very important to try to recognize what is can be actually improved vs what we want to change just because we are so used to it.
Yeah, but it's more like smoke and mirrors. It may be visually and thematically impressive, but the dragons were basically a nuisance not really a threat.
I actually found the un-scripted dragon battles to be fairly repetitive and boring in 2011.
Dragons are not mooks. They should not become throw-a-way monsters
@@krim7 I think they were made as random encounters to make you feel like badass who can take down a dragon whenever needed. If they just stuck to the couple dragons that show up during the story you wouldn't have felt the sensation of becoming more powerful over time that you have as you kill the randomly encountered dragons.
However I do agree that they made dragons feel less special.
Amen 🙌
@@discordedwhoofs7873 Watch Gopher's play-through of Skyrim Special Edition. He has a mod that makes every dragon battle epic and difficult. His Lenny can only deal with them if he has half an army to assist him, like at the Western Watch Tower. Even then the casualties in Solitude were staggering - hardly a guard left alive and several merchants dead.
We absolutely need the Fudgemuppet team to write the script for a modded "Skyrim Reborn" project made by a team of modders who know what they're doing. This is too important to ignore.
The most interesting part of this for me was seeing how past games portrayed the Nords and skyrim compared to what we see today. I never really played any Elder Scrolls before Skyrim so the history lesson is always fun.
Yeah, for me after playing Skyrim I got into Oblivion & Morrowind aswell, wherein they portrayed it as so much cooler & more violent than it actually is. It’s like the boss as an enemy vs when you unlock him as a character lul
Oblivion and Morrowinds Nord and Skyrim Lore will always be more compelling than what we actually got in Skyrim, just like how Morrowinds description of Cyrodiils Geography will always be far more interesting than what we got in Oblivion
@@jaydenlobbe7911 Back when it was more like Ancient China’s geography?
In the civil war mod, where you can side with the Thalmor, I feel it explains the high elves best with this one line a Thalmor agent says in regards to Talos.
“It can’t be possible for a human to become a divine when it’s never happened to a high elf.”
I mean, that’s all you ever need to know about those bastards.
@themanwithtomanyeyes8282 Talos wasn't a god like the Divines though, pretending he was is nonsense. He was no different than the Tribunal or Dagoth Ur.
Also what OP said is bs anyway, all the Elven gods are believed to be Elves who ascended from a previous kalpa. So the Thalmor (and most High Elves) view the Divines as their ancestors.
Therefore, the 'quote' OP used to summarize them isn't remotely the case in universe.
@@LordVader1094
Well, some of the Elven Divines were also Aldmer who ascended in this current Kalpa. Like Syrabane and Phynaster
Some like Xarxes are debated, was he an Aldmeri shopkeeper who attained divinity, or was he always an Et'Ada, always at Auriel's side since the Dawn of the Aurbis.
@@LordVader1094 somebody clearly didn't play the Knights of the Nine DLC for Oblivion. In order to progress thru the quest u need blessings from all the aedra/nine divines which includes Talos
But don't they believe that it happened to Auri'El, a high elf?
@@danielbob2628 Auri-El was always a god in their eyes. The high elves also believed they were all originally gods, who were turned mortal by being trapped on Mundus by Lorkhan. So when they say “hasn’t happened to a high elf,” they mean they haven’t returned to divinity.
I really loved seeing something as simple as a netch in the Grey Quarter. I loved a lot of these changes.
So how do we get modders together to create “Fudge-rim”? Also, yeah you gotta do a video where you write what the story would be.
THE TRIBUNAL OF LORE HAVED RETURNED TO BLESS US WITH A 1 HOUR BANGER
Markarth being a fertile land recently given over to mining could provide a very interesting new dynamic. The region could be struggling with a recent move into mining. The mass influx of mostly young men from the farms and villages of the Reach would lead to slums on the outside of Markarth, organised into various groups. The Reachmen, Redguards, Bretons, Imperials, Nords and even other groups should all be living in slums while the established families and bourgeoisie live inside the city walls. The mines could be organised by families amongst the Reachmen but also by certain ethnic groups doing certain roles. Meanwhile,
the Forsworn could be the rural Reachmen resisting the move of their youngfolk to city, infiltrating the Reachmen population of the city. Dealing with this industrialisation, the motives for migration, and the tensions related would be interesting. This could also be a useful comparison to Windhelm, with the more marketised and cosmopolitan Markarth being better at integrating in some ways but worse in others. The exploration of a class system and the tensions between cosmopolitanism and social mobility could be very interesting. After all, you could help the established order, help the downtrodden, or try and bring them together in some way.
You’ve taken the disillusionment I felt after seeing Skyrim portrayed in Project Tamriel and turned it into an hour and a half of indulging in what could have been. It’s managed to capture all the grievances I had with how TESV left prior lore behind and make something productive from it. Thank you for this.
I absolutely love your idealization of this setting and it's almost painful that I couldn't be able to play it. Now what I want to hear you go into is about the dwemer politics of Skyrim in this idealized setting in the fallout with the falmer. I really do want to listen to you describe the plot of this ideal Skyrim.
I really hope at least one person that works at Bethesda watches Fudgemuppet. They could learn a lot.
Sanguine classic Todd & Pete Hines .
A lot of garbage lmao
@@henrycrabs3497 You don't think FudgeMuppet's ideas are very good?
@@General12th no
@@henrycrabs3497 So what are you doing here? Just leaving a negative comment, then disappearing into the night?
It’s my sleepover I get to choose the movie
I vote for fudgemuppet to do this with all previous Elder Scrolls games 🤚😆
i'm seconding this. the games are classics but they're obviously not perfect
This must be done.
If I could have Morrowind but with Skyrim's gameplay and dungeons I'd explode with joy.
I think the point of this was that Skyrim was the one that needed the most lore changes.
@@wolfgangspiper no the only good thing abt morrowind is the unique gameplay features
I love Morthal in part because Idgrod is my favorite jarl. I love your ideas for the city! It would be cool, imo, if we had a more in-depth quest that deals with the mystical side of the Jarl's family.
why is some senile old bat with dementia your favorite when Jarl's like Jarl Ballin exists?
why is some senile old woman with dementia your favorite when Jarl's like Jarl Ballin exists?
@@GenericUsername-qp1wwL take
As someone who has written an epic poem/song about the Dragon War, entirely in the dragon language, I'm hesitant to accept a timeline that erases the dragon war. Like, yes, it was shoehorned in and doesn't add much to the plot except for holding up the entire plot of Skyrim, but still! My saga of the three Nord heroes banishing Alduin to the future was so cool!
Wouldn’t Stormcloaks take some exception to the College of Winterhold having a Thalmor agent in their walls? Wouldn’t that cause serious tension between the College, Town, & Stormcloaks?
Though I do like the idea of Dunmer being sent their to help, but maybe one or more would be offered a place with the College if their talents lie away from manual labor… but that would probably also be another point of contention between the College and Ulfric.
I imagine Ancano in this new Skyrim is just as much a haughty agent of the Thalmor as in the original, but he is ostracized and avoided because of the college’s traditionalist veil. And it’s getting to him. He holds up well on the surface and understands the skin-deep nature of the religion, but studious players can see the signs.
At other Thalmor locations, you find messages and reports from Ancano, and they are unremarkable. He is prim, proper, and to the point, his words even lacking the usual drips of disdain for those he deals with. These are from before he arrived at the College, before his promotion after a previous successful mission.
Within the Thalmor Embassy, in a locked room you can easily miss entirely, you find a set of reports similar to the ones on Esbern and Ulfric, detailing many more people the Thalmor are watching. The section devoted to the College is lacking, seemingly half-finished as they await Ancano’s reports. What few are there are distinctly different from prior writings. He is still proper, but he clearly dislikes those he’s reporting on.
In the college itself, the signs are easier to spot. His quarters are at the end of a hallway, past several unoccupied rooms. Students and teachers are programmed to not sit directly next to him and some of the Nords will even cease conversation and remain silent when he comes near, waiting for him to get a certain distance away before resuming.
As for the mer himself, he is a mess. He’s visibly aged despite being fairly young (and an elf), he keeps three daggers on himself for fear of attack, and Drevis Neloren is wearing his boots. He talks to few people, mainly Tolfdir and what few teachers will have him, but even they seem distant. He keeps strange hours, sleeping for only 2 or 3 hours at a time on a slightly randomized schedule. He can often be found alone in the library or on the roof stargazing.
Talking to him nets you a cordial, if slightly stilted, greeting and a polite reminder that he is a busy man. Asking what he is doing here, what he is studying, and what he thinks of the school all net you simple, clearly rehearsed responses. The only way you get him to open up is asking about Summerset, which prompts a short reverie over his home before he regains his composure.
If you stay hidden, you’ll hear him mumbling about dreams and magic, or repeating what sound like lines from an instruction manual or tutor he once learned from. Other than that, he mentions “showing these weaklings true magic” and “proving myself to her”, among other things. Standing outside his door or remaining hidden in his room will reveal he talks to himself constantly as he writes, only stopping when he eats, reads, or sleeps.
His quarters are heavily secured. His door has two locks, one a standard door lock and the other a deadbolt he bars the door with whenever he is inside. The security doesn’t end there, as a tripwire just past the door will lift the cover off of a soul gem trap if tripped. Alternatively, his window can be opened from outside with some deft platforming (and perhaps levitation magic).
The room is a mess of old papers and strewn books. He is clearly eating meals in here frequently and the focus of the room, his desk, is a morass of scribblings and notes. These are his reports, prior to edits and formatting that clean up the ones Elenwen receives. The vitriol is palpable, and a few notes were seemingly so unhinged he scribbled them out. A lit candle on a plate covered in ash suggests what he does when his anger gets the better of his writing.
A few people have specific views on Ancano. Tolfdir (now archmage-equivalent) will remark that he provides a unique viewpoint, being from the opposite side of the map. Urag gro-Shub is cautiously dismissive of him, calling him "too young for his station, too dumb for his knowledge". Overall, most of students seem uninterested or amused by Ancano, although a few are fearful of what he represents.
I've already rambled far longer than I intended to. TL;DR- Ancano is cracking under the college's ostracism and has become paranoid. He subconsciously seeks to prove himself to the students and teachers, even as they fear, despise, or laugh at him. He subconsciously seeks to prove himself to the college, even to the detriment of his mission there, and has become his own worst enemy.
@@pretzelbomb6105 It is pretty interesting, if they give us the chance to side with the Thalmor or at least with Ancano it can be even more interesting.
@@pretzelbomb6105 ok
I like your idea of the companions not being able to be ignored by the Jarl of Whiterun. They are the most skilled warriors with armed with the greatest weapons and armors. It is suicidal to make them mad at you.
If this was the case, I could actually see why people support the Stormcloaks, and it would actually be hard for me to decide lol. Dude I need to hear more, please make a part two with the main quests, I absolutely love these types of videos, they are not only some of my favorites from this channel but TH-cam as a whole
I like the idea of Dunmer representative telling the council of the stormcloaks that they are nords up against nords and how their clevermen would be useless and that his people will bring Red mountain Fire to his enemies in exchange for equal rights of course.
So, I'm absolutely for this, just about everything here... except for the complete removal of dragons from the game. I would rather keep them as an element, but maybe more in that animal of reverence role that the Nordic pantheon is all about.
YES!
Yeah, it certainly seems like there would be a way to keep the monster in the game without the lore of "They're returning because Alduin is trying to destroy the world." That dragons are returning is very cool. I want a better reason for it than that, however.
@@BillWiltfong(Note that this is written before finishing the video, I might mention something already said)
Imagine if you will, Delphine was already suspicious of Thalmor agents being behind the return of the dragons. She seemed convinced. What if, considering the Thalmor-centric plotline proposed, Delphine is still a large character in the game. She simply plucks you out of the crowd after you defeat Mirmulnir, and recruits your help to discover if/how the Thalmor are doing this. The Blades will reform to assume their role again as dragonslayers, but also with a small scale team you work with. This would include Delphine and Esbern, working to cut off the branch of Thalmor responsible for the Dragons. This would give the player the option of stopping the wild dragon encounters by completing this line of quests and vanquishing this group.
This reminds me of zaric zhakaron’s series years ago, good shit
Still good.
i listen to it to help me fall asleep i love it
Considering it is almost the same story in the beginning they should have credited him..
"What if Skyrim was Good?" if anyone wanted to search the video.
Way better though. A lot of Zhakaron's ideas were really gimmicy.
The Companions as an Order of Knight “Barbarians” without the Werewolves would have been more interesting. At least, not to the extent that it went to the corruption of the organization.
I’d like the Companions split three ways. The main faction of knight barbarians, the off shoot that fancies themselves werewolves, and the silverhand which is a splinter of the main faction that feel it is their duty to take out their misguided werewolf brethren, and all sides would be joinable.
@@Etticos. you… you I like.
@@Etticos.
Now this.
This, I can get behind.
@@Etticos. Counter proposal: you can't actually join the knight barbarians because they're veterans and high ranking, but depending on who you join and what choices you make you can end up becoming a part of them
@@Ghilannugs Like a Vikings Swiss Guard?
As someone from there I suspect some of the inspiration for Hjaalmarch came from the region of the Fens in East England. Historically the marshy area was avoided and the people were subject to much superstition. People told stories of how the locals had webbed feet, and how monsters like willow the wisps would lure you into the marsh to drown.
The thorough network of inland waterways and flooded land offered prospects in the form of Eel fishing, fertile seasonally flooded pasture and wealthy ascetic island monasteries. However it also made the region vulnerable to Viking raids and disease. It was a region that land based campaigns always avoided; the monastic island city of Ely was the last place to be captured by the Normans. It took five years to be conquered after Harold, the last Anglo Saxon King, was killed in the decisive battle of Hastings. As the doorstep to Solitude in the civil war questline Hjaalmarch should probably be a lot more difficult to invade with all the terrain and attrition; it would probably justify some sort of shallow hulled boat naval battle to take it.
Building off that stuff would be the way I would suggest that you could make morthal feel less one dimensional than a boggy back end of nowhere town.
I’d just like to say, well done. I didn’t expect it to, but just seeing the bigger cities and more established setting with real variety to each of these locations captivated me fully. I *need* to play this Skyrim, I want to see the depth and conflict and immersion that comes from all of the improvements and changes that you suggested. With a properly built world that really goes deep on the conflict between the Empire and the old Nordic way of life, Skyrim feels *so* much more alive to me, I could almost feel myself playing this version of Skyrim as you talked about it. This is an excellent video, and all I can hope for now is that a team builds a mod that makes Skyrim into this version, your version, that it always should have been. Excellent video!
I think the division of Skyrim within the civil war needs a tweak.
There's a reason real civil wars are typically north/south. East/west cultures (within their own civilizations) tend to be relatively similar due to similar environments and climates.
So instead of splitting Skyrim between east and west, it should be north and south. Southern Skyrim would be more imperialised, due to proximity to Cyrodiil whereas northern Skyrim would be more nationalistic and independent from Cyrodiil.
West Skyrim is also on the border of high rock, which is much more imperialised compared to morrowind in the East. it would make a lot of sense if riften, falkreath, markarth and solitude were Imperial; Windhelm, winterhold, and dawnstar were stormcloaks; and whiterun and morthal were both neutral
@@SA_Caine
What would someone be if they considered Winterhold the true, _true_ capital?
What? The English Civil War wasn't north vs. south. None of Rome's many, many civil wars were north vs. south. There are innumerable cases of civil wars breaking out in states that were so small that any climate difference between north and south was negligible. This is a ridiculous assertion.
@@tbotalpha8133 war of the roses, north & south England were generally divided on who they supported from what I remember. Rome was a massive, whole other beast & had unique circumstances for their civil wars which is the exception, not the rule (with many of their civil wars being somewhat north/south based, that or the two factions so far away they might as well be north & south). Generally speaking almost every civil war throughout history where the warring sides weren’t divided by water or other lands was north & south based. All of yours & my reasons for why other civil wars aren’t between north & south do not apply to Skyrim, & as such proposing that it should be so is a perfectly fine assessment.
@@cykasoviet831 I am looking through Wikipedia's list of civil wars as I type this. So, so many of these wars were not north vs. south. Many of them didn't even have a clear axis, but instead multiple competing groups fighting in all directions. And even in the cases that they were north vs. south, many of them were happening in countries that were so small that there was no real difference in climate between the north and the south. And therefore no climate-driven difference in culture between the two regions.
Furthermore, actually reading the listed causes of said wars, most of them were caused by political elites revolting against their overlords. Not because of cultural differences, but because of dynastic squabbling, legal disputes and succession crises.
Your north/south climate-culture position is nonsense.
Amazing video. One of the best things about this channel compared to many other ES channels is that you guys criticize in a extreme respectful way and I feel like Bethesda will be much more flexible and comprehensive to these criticism
I just hope Bethesda actually watches these things man 😅
My change - make destruction magic have actual damage scaling instead of just having perks increase the damage by fifty percent. It is tedious to try to kill enemies with it on legendary difficulty.
I want my spellblade build to include more spells and less axe, more like 50/50 axe-to-magic than the
70/30 it actually is. At least I use my healing spells alot...
I agree on everything you said, either way.
Ordinator Perks of skyrim.
In the beginning it looks bloated and exaggerated. However it feels so right in game
This is exactly what I commented on yesterday's podcast. Skill levels should be for scaling, and perks should be for augmenting playstyle. None of this "10% better deals" or "fear spells work on higher level enemies" bull crap. If I have 100 in Destruction then my flames spell should reflect that, not that I bought the requisite perks. Leave stuff like bribing guards, ice spells causing paralysis, stealth rolling, and axes causing bleed to the perks.
Well enai mods already do this
If that annoys you Skyrim Requiem may be for you
@@alexjones2004 I'm on PS4, though.
"the lore was changed" is sadly a phrase that comes up often when discussing the elder scrolls.
Honestly, I think a lot of the upsides of this setting aren’t incompatible with a more restrained use of the dragon lore. Trying to merge both lore versions of the Voice could actually prove very interesting.
A fun watch, thank you! :)
I like the idea of the Dunmer Stormcloak Soldiers, I imagine them with bonemold armor but of poorer quality, bone colored instead of the bright yellow of traditional dunmer armor because of the lack of materials, plus a kind of syncretism, making bonemold helmets but in the style of the Norse helmets (like the iron one, but without horns and much tighter) accompanied by quintin boots and gauntlets made of Chaurus (The falmer use them to build a lot of things, I would not see it so strange that some dunmer use them as substitutes). And then when you travel in the DLC to Solstheim you will see the contrast with the traditional dunmer armor and the "nordic" ones and see how despite the difficulties and the nordic influence they have kept their traditions as best they can.
After playing ESO over the years, I have notice the lore being changed was not really the problem. The problem i found with the game has been the writing, not lore writing but dialogue writing not just for Npcs but for the player as well. I think that is what New Vegas did right, It had good writing for npcs and the player and allowed you to change the story via speechcraft and other stats.
Though I recognize they are 2 different games I think they should REALLY take some inspo from Dragon Age as well. The thing those game really nails downs is characters. Characters you love, characters you hate, character you hate AND love. Characters that you mourn for, characters that make you cry. Just characters, characters, characters. In the end the best thing about any story is people (and animals heh), so if they continue fleshing out companions and other characters like they did in Fallout 4 I think they can get a real good game.
I mean just imagine how much more fun it would be to explore caves if your companions not only commented more on things you do, but interacted with it. Got excited when you neared a cave. You bring a hunter companion and they give tips on tracks to a potential bear cave nearby. A thief companion points out targets that "for sure are carrying around a lot of septims". A bard or scholar excitedly writing down things you come across. There is SO much potential
@@Ghilannugs Better writing in dialogue/conversations can sell an otherwise poor story/bad retconed lore becasue they sell it to you in a way that makes you buy it. Bethesda however only have quest/level designers acting as writers. back in daggerfall and morrowind they had writers as desginers. Thats why they had the best stories.
I think the dialogue in ESO is way better than Skyrim’s. But then it’s easier to do more with an online game.
@@Ghilannugs dragon age, and to an extent the current ESO made me hate skyrim's dragons. The dragons in ESO are way bigger than what they were in Skyrim, and while I don't think they need to be as big as what was in dragon age, it would have made one hell of a fight.
@@dfg3179 Imagine if we had to go to every region in Skyrim to fight different elemental dragons. In the swampy lands between Riften and Windhelm we fight a lightning dragon that electrifies any water you stand in, paralyzing and damaging you. High on top of a mountain covered in snow you walk towards what you think is just a bunch of snow covered rocks, but then you see just the slightest movement. "Who dares walk upon my mountain? Answer fast or become a part of my ice statues"
"Just dragonspeak" I think we've just grown really numb to the concept of dragons.
I agree, and at the same time I find it so strange. I remember when I was young playing Oblivion, one of the loading screens was a shrine to Peryite (I think, if I am remembering correctly), though I didn’t know it at the time and I thought it was a real dragon, and thought dragons were just super rare in the game, perhaps there was only one. So I would adventure, exploring all the caves and ruins thinking to myself that one day I’d finally find the hidden dragon and battle it. Eventually I found out that there were no dragons, and when I first saw the preview for Skyrim I was so excited for it.
@@Etticos. In the lore prior to _Skyrim's_ release, dragons had not gone extinct and were still around. In fact, in _Redguard_ (a game that came out in between _Daggerfall_ and _Morrowind,_ and was Todd Howard's first Elder Scrolls game as lead) the player, Cyrus, confronts Nafaalilargus, a red dragon that served Tiber Septim.
And the Dragon Cult did exist in a sense, but really in the way it is depicted in _Skyrim._ Dragons were revered in the Nords' earlier, more animalistic and totemic religious expression still preserved by the Skaal. The dragons were understood as representative of Alduin, who _was_ the Nordic aspect of Akatosh.
A long dead secret society of Dragon Worshippers living among the people of Skyrim from AFTER the times of Ysgramor would have made them far more interesting. Placing the interred bodies of Dragon Priest in ancient Nord crypts in secret, recruiting new cultists by taking advantage of the recent civil war unrest. All this in preparations for the return of the Dragons.
Maybe a good mix of the Mythic Dawn fanatics in Oblivion and the Dreamers thralled by the Blight from House Dagoth in Morrowind.
Would have been way more interesting. Even if they were un-joinable.
@@fumarc4501 Could even use the assets for Miraak's Cultists for the Dragon Cult.
@@Etticos. I think dragons would be more epic in Skyrim if we only encountered the named Dragons like Alduin and Parthunax rather than dozens of nameless dragons that interrupt our adventuring.
Aight, so I know this might be asking too early, but can you guys do an ideal elder Scrolls IV oblivion as well? I think that would be really cool. Also, who misses the old morrowind and redguard Dunmer voices, or the old morrowind nord/orc voices? "Seen any elves? HAHAHA"
Coming back to this vid again, I now wish this was the Skyrim game, it's sooooo much more interesting than the one we got. Oh well
Check out Zhakaron's "what if oblivion was good"
@@Tbonedoesfsx I did, thanks for the recommendation. Was a great video
Oblivion should have stuck to the old Imperial lore of Cyrodiil being a jungle and showcasing the Imperials cultural diversity a lot more. Have the Colovian estates in north western be like the cyrodiil we got with the cosmopolitan Europe feel while further south along the Nibin we see the more pagenistic and reclusive culture of the Nibinese.
North Western Cyrodiil should have felt wealthy, technologically advanced and cosmopolitan. There we would clearly see the divide between the wealthy and the poor and we could see what the flow of information between the provinces has done for the development of new technology. There in north western Cyrodiil we can find steam engines, black powder weapons and a heavy focus on science and the arts. Basically, North western Cyrodiil should feel like renaissance Europe with the problems that come with it.
To the south along the Nibine is where we get the more ancient, magical feel that shows us what the ancient Imperials were/are like. Here, people are still using things from the 1st era like hoplite shields, spears and more primitive style weapons. They have a deep fascination for the stars like their Nedic ancestors and actually are able to construct the starlight wells the Aylids invented. However the people of this land are much poorer and highly xenophobic towards non-humans. The dense jungles of this part of Cyrodiil make it much harder to create the complex societies then further north, meaning the people here are isolated and poorer, generally sticking to semi-autonomous lordships instead of the central Imperial government.
Wouldn't it be cool if in the Midden, underneath the college, you had some master necromancer, perhaps a high-level veteran from the Order of the Black Worm (which would make sense now with your time crunch) trying to recreate the Black Worm cult? Perhaps you could expose him to the college or Jarl and have them defeated or you could join them in secret and pursue a mini questline in which you gain the powers of lichdom.
This video made me go Hollow, like, I love Skyrim, I have a painfully high amount of hours payed since the game came out, but like, god damn do I wish this was how it was
Been watching y’all for a while now, your storytelling is incredible. The lore brought to light completely changes and enhances the experience of the games. The emotion and character of your builds make them feel relatable(I saw so much of myself in the Divine Crusader) much love and respect gentlemen.
This entire video was basically a copypasta from other Lore videos..
I'm only 28 minutes in and already thinking you need to make this whole thing into a mod.
Unfortunately you’d have to almost make a brand new game for most of this stuff.
Well, of anyone needs mediocre va work i'm available
Last time I was this early Tiber Septim was still Hjalti-Early Beard
I salute you first commenter
Would be interesting if the West tried to emphasize Talos to try and alleviate the loss of Shor
Personally I like the idea of the 'main' plot being essentially Dawnguard's plot line instead of dragons
So vampires?
I mean thats one elderscroll far to being canon
Something I always thought of in Skyrim was, they could just be like: "Yup, we won't worship Talos anymore, all these Temples of Talos are now Temples to Shor"
Shor or his more common name Lorkhan are not necessarily Talos right? The Cyrodilic Pantheon had a representation of him in the traditional pantheon which was the 9th divine or the "missing god" how they called him.. Talos technically would be the 10th divine by that logic because he is weird combination of the demi-god Ysmir Wulfharth, Hjalti Early-Beard and Surin Arctus
Or am I wrong here? I always thought what Talos did to him was similiar as to what Sheogorath did to Jyggalag.. He stilll exists, he is just a shell of what he used to be..
Or even Ysmir lmao.
Nords: k we will worship Shor instead.
The Thalmor: H A L T
@@martijnkwant5314 i thought that talos had mantled lorkhan correct me if i'm wrong
The Aldmeri Dominion ain’t keen on Shor worship either. Shor and Talos are just two sides of the same coin that is Lorkhan-which the Aldmeri Dominion see as the original enemy to all Elvenkind.
I disagree with the banning Shor over Talos part. Lore-wise, the elves would hate Talos way more. The elves already dealt with Shor/Lorkhan by keeping him out of the mainstream imperial pantheon + perpetuating Lorkhan was a trickster. Talos’s memory is more recent. He destroyed the elves homes and forced them to join his empire. He has essentially replaced Shor as the “anti-elves” god.
I agree 100%
Talos is the empire god, not the main nord god
@@travus111 The nords think talos is of nordic orignin, so they see him as the nord ruler of tamriel...
@@jesse2535 because of skyrim retcon lore
@@travus111 yep and what's wrong with that? this series is full of retcones in every game one way or another.
I really hope the Skyrim Main Quest Remastered mod changes a lot of what you've mentioned. It has a lot of potential, and may ultimately make the stories even better than the original....though thats not too difficult.
I also wish people would mention the Umbriel Crisis more. The proposed timeline would've taken place very shortly after it.
I strongly disagree with getting rid of the dragons, but maybe making there a “secondary main quest” revolving the Thalmor after you beat Alduin
I’d keep dragons as well. But I’d make one change. I’d make the Thu’um and Shouts an invention of the Atmorens, however you spell the original name of the Nords. Because let’s face it, until the Dragon War dragons didn’t need 3-4 word shouts. They could just speak a sentence and breath fire or frost or whatever. And learning the dragon language is instinctive for them.
Non-dragons on the other hand have to actively practice and meditate on a single word just to use it in a shout. So why wouldn’t the rebels have invented the Thu’um.
Thu’um as an imitation of Dragon Speak would be a cool way to distinguish the two from standard magic.
Would make using the Thu’um less impactful, but the Greybeards would be the experts to tell who is and who isn’t the True Dragonborn.
I think you could merge them. Don't the Thalmor want a perfect, formless world? Alduin is the destroyer of worlds so that a new one can be created. Perhaps the Thalmor try to summon (perhaps succeed) im summoning Alduin and try to make him eat the world so their perfect world can come to pass. An epic battle with Alduin could still be the final battle in this case.
If the raids of Dawnstar happened, if they take port at Windhelm I wonder how the Dunmer AND Argonians there would react to recognizable artifacts, items, general plunder from there?
AND how would the Jarl of Dawnstar express his opinions of Windhelm taking in refugees?
I would love a part 2 of this discussing the plot and maybe a deeper dive into the factions
This new and improved Dawnstar could even have a call back quest to the elder scrolls travels Dawnstar where we go dungeon delving in ice caves one more time!
This reminds me a lot of Zaric Zhakaron's series where he, too, went through and corrected a lot of Skyrim in accordance with the lore that had already been established prior to Skyrim's release.
I would absolutely love a Skyrim remake with both of you at the helm, because I love a lot of the ideas both of you bring to the table.
Those ideas could be boiled down to these two statements, which I fully endorse: (1) Respect and incorporate the lore that has come before; (2) things should make sense both in their setting and according to real-world logistics (i.e., everything should feel real and be believable).
In academia we would call this plagiarism ;)
I would love to hear more about your perfect Skyrim setting! Hope there is more in the works on this
Something that could still work, is Miraak. Instead of the First Dragonborn, he would be the First Tongue. The first who learned the powers of the Voice, who learned it beyond all others. And that led him to the 'Demon of Knowledge', Herma Mora. Who promised him knowledge even further than what he could learn, and thus he thought to make himself a ruler, and was fought to a standstill by Vahlok the Jailer.
And his powers could include ones you can't get at all, perhaps instead of only Dragon Aspect, but every animal of the Nordic Gods, like an Eagle, a Snake, a Bear, etc. Thus making him a threat to every type of player. He's ungodly strong already, but his Voice allows him to achieve a strength so great and a true final boss.
This also ties him better into the Skaal. He would be seen as corrupting the old gods, twisting what they stand for into gaining power. Thus if you side with them, they would teach you how to counter and nullify the powers he has gained.
I don't know if you meant to imply that we'd still have the Voice in the game. Thus perhaps we could choose between the College of the Voice, the Tongues, or Graybeards. And each gaining different levels of strength depending on how far you go and what side you pick. Plus you might lose something if you're not a Nord, as a non-Nord, you'd be limited regardless of anything else you do.
I would love for this to be a new series. Next up should definitely be oblivion and then eso.
Definitely ESO.
I wish ESO was just a bit better man. I want to like the game so much but I just can't. The rewriting of the lore and additions that were never mentioned in previous games feels like fan fiction and I can't get used to the way the game plays
@@sandoh me too, I really do. Elder Scrolls is probably my favorite fictional world, so the idea of being able to travel Tamriel with my brother and friends was always a dream to me. But I can’t stand how World of Warcraft it is.
@@Etticos. honestly at this point I wouldn't mind if it played like world of warcraft because then it'd actually have a direction instead of this awkward catch all that doesnt really excel at anything. I like MMOs and I like single player RPGs. I feel ESO tries to do both at the same time and makes it feel kinda mediocre all around.
@@sandoh one of the things I really dislike about ESO is the way the skills work. Like having a bar of various skills really annoys me for some reason especially with the amount of extra icons it adds to the screen, where as with Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, etc there a minimal HUD. I don’t know, that may be a stupid opinion. Additionally to how I dislike how the skills look, I also dislike the function. For some reason the implementation of the skills just really kills immersion for me and makes it feel too “game-y”. Ugh, I could go all day with the issues I have with ESO.
Key Takeaway: Nordic and other racial tradition should be far more prominent.
For a game whose entire core conflict is based on racial tensions, yes.
So I’ve been in the process of moving, the tear down & re-assembly of my family’s house has meant my gaming systems have been packed up for nearly a month now. Watching videos that are current and re-watching so many others has made me long for playing Skyrim. Thank you for the time & effort you put into this project. I look forward to watching more videos in the future.
Until Valhalla
I think even just a small change like making Jarl Ulfric more concerned with protecting the traditions of his people and less of... An ass. Ulfric was so hard for me to be sympathetic with.
Yea when taking into account the lore from the Thalmor, Sybille talking about how the king was a huge fan of Ulfric and would have listened to him seriously, and just his behavior as Jarl… He is just so unlikable for me. I know he’s a war hero, not meant to be particularly likable, instead respectable but… even that can only go so far.
@@queennamirivythorn2040 Tullius isn't that likable but he's far less of a piece of shit. Ulfric has too much of an ego to be respectable.
i think this was intentional - if their leader wasn’t an asshat, i think most players would side with the stormcloaks as good rebels vs big empire is something that most people seem to enjoy
@@iampfaff especially with the whole imperials try to kill you at the start of the game thing.
I mean if you'd have went through the stuff that he's went through in his life prior to the beginning of the game you'd probably be more of an asshole I mean I know my bias is to the stormcloaks but man he went through a lot
You know, another twist I would suggest for the civil war is that Talos is outward, like cannon, but as a way to get back at the Elves, they instead push Shor to be the new Ninth Divine while making Kyne more in line with Kynerath. Stating it was the powers of Shor that allow Talos to make the Empire, and Mead is finally acknowledging it instead of pretending a man is a god.
In the canon timeline, it was stated that Skyrim came in the time of need for the Empire and help win the final battle of the war. So let's say Mead was not as much an idiot when he realizes taking Talos out would cause problems. Therefore, he would try to make stronger allies by pushing Nord gods to replace some of the Imperial Divine, along with trying to weaken the Septim dynasty by suggesting they are not as divine. Something easy to do considering the number of times they damage or hurt the Empire in civil wars and such, along with times their line split from the first Emperor. Not to mention it would allow him to build stronger ties to other provinces into the Empire if he even expand the Divines to more than 9 to include others from other religions like the Bretons, Redguard, and maybe even the more tolerable Deadra as champions of mortals.
However, it did create tension in Skyrim for several reasons. First, let's say, at the time, many Nords were abandoning their old gods in favor of news Imperial Gods. How would they take it being told that their conversion was for not going to take it, not well I think? Second, many would be angry with the whole idea of the Emperor being divine, especially in areas he is so revered like the Reach, Solitude, Whiterun, Falkreath, and so on. Third, even some of the more traditional Nords may not like Shor being made an Imperial God, especially if they change him like Kynerath. And n if Mead does expand the pantheon, how many Nords would like to acknowledge a Breton or Redguard god Ebonarm, or a Deadra like Malacath or Azura.
Finally, it set up a different type of rebellion where instead of East verse West, it's a Northern West territory that is in rebellion, while the Southern East are loyal. As it makes the Rebellion seem more plausible as it is easier for the rebels to hold out against invading armies from the South due to the smaller border with only one direction of incursion instead of several seen in cannon. Especially if Falkreath and the Pale were made into a constant flip state like Romania during Vlad the Impaler's time. Not to mention it makes the rebellion more widespread to explain why the Empire is so thin, for it's not just a rebellion in Skyrim, but High Rock and Crydil itself, combined with the Thalmor supplying said rebels to weaken the Empire as they recover their strength.
I would love to see an 'Ideal Skyrim Factions' series, like what you hinted at with the College section!
I also think that the cleverman of the college of winterhold being the most that remember and teach how to enchant ice into stalrim would be very critical to Nord culture.
Fudgemuppet: "Ysgramor and the companions were all dragons"
also Fudgemuppet: "we don't do that here"
This was just a theory vid
Maybe if some had the Thu’um?
I feel like Dawnstar should also have had stuff showing the Vigil of Stendarr, less brutish Vikings looking to fight demons instead of villagers would join there to get their honor and treasure
I loved the Elder Scrolls RPG you guys did a few years back - I think a really detailed setting like this with so much thought behind it would be a prime opportunity for another RPG series! I think FoundryVTT even lets you run an elder scrolls RPG. Anyway, just food for thought 😊
Dragons had superficial, and albeit awesome at times (and with certain mods) epic-ness while the Thalmor would've lent DEPTH to the game and overall plot. They also could have spawned off-shoot side quests and such.
I am certainly one that wondered what the point of introducing them was considering how little they were involved and affected overall in game. Unless it was only an intro so that TES 6 could focus on them, but that may be giving too much credit.
The thalmor were the real enemies no matter who you sided with stormcloaks or empire, heck even the dragons weren't as big of a threat overall. If it wasn't for all the random crap missions delphine makes you do the dragon threat could be handled in maybe 3 hours. The blades being dragon hunters was cool but at the same time doesn't make sense, the empire isn't based in skyrim so how did the blades magically become the bodyguards of the emperor?
Honestky there should have been two main plots one being the civil war quest line that had the thalmor be the actual antagonist and depending who you side with you either straight up attack the embassy or you sneak in under the guide of an ambassador. And then you keep the dragon quest line of defeating alduin along with the dragon cult stuff as Imo the dragon cult isn't that bad of a "retcon" or break the lore as I see it they came over after the eradication of the snow elves and perhaps where only there a short time as people may have been getting fed up before the move from atmora, and then the dragon cult is sort of then forgotten about as all the other historical stuff happens, like it's history stuff like that just gets forgotten about
Two mornings in a row now. Best way to start the day
The issue with modern bethesda is that they have always had difficulty understanding anything when it comes to 'time'... mostly because they don't generally give a damn.
The best example would be the Fallout Series; the most infamous being a Ghoul Child, who has been stuck in a fridge for over 210 years, has neither suffered from a lack of food/water (despite Ghouls needing to eat/drink, as established in previous games), and their body didn't atrophy from being stuck in a fridge... for over 210 years, with very little in terms of possible limb movement.
Then there is the fact that, in Fallout 3, people are somehow surviving on simply raiding stores and so forth in a wasteland... despite being over 200 years since the bombs drop, where the food would have either outright decayed or become too poisonous to consume, or would have otherwise been eaten by humans or otherwise... yet they are still treated like they are scavenging food from a supposed 'recent' nuclear apocalypse, despite being over 200 years ago. Whilst Obsidian for example took a more reasonable approach by showing varying towns make use of their own farmsteads to survive and have a means to get food, whilst towns such as Megaton have nothing established to give a reason as to how they can properly survive without scavenging/hunting in any reasonable fashion... even though if the majority of plants have died out, then there wouldn't be enough herbivores (if any) to survive, and a place that is just full of carnivores is at best a feebly structured ecosystem that would be on the brink of collapse... despite the player being able to get Squirrels on a Stick as a form of food.
Amongst other things.
It’s that they don’t seem to know their own lore as well. They need to look at the wikis for their own games more because they either get different writers in who are completely oblivious to the lore previously established or they simply just forget.
So, here's the thing for your Fallout 3 criticisms. Lorewise, the food not having decayed makes sense. It makes little sense that you'd miss that, considering the level of esoteric knowledge you display on the topic. And due to the overwhelming stockpile of such resources we see present, along with the extremely low population of the Capital Wasteland, it makes sense for most of it to remain unscavenged. The population of the Wasteland seems to be several hundred individuals, maybe a bit over a thousand tops. In an area that was stocked to provide for the potential wants of a metropolitan area whose population would be nearly (if not over) a million people at the time the bombs fell. Not necessities, their wants. This, in terms of foodstuffs, means the amount in stock would be dramatically higher than necessary to fulfill the needs of the populace. Not only that, it's also implied (possible directly stated, not sure about that one) that hunting is a fundamental part of fulfilling the food requirements of various settlements. So it's not *just* the scavenged pre-war food that is sustaining them.
You mentioned the "too poisoned to consume" idea for food, yet don't bother to consider the notion that this could affect the way vermin and predators interact with that "food"... that is to say, it's likely they wouldn't even register it as food the way a human would. A plastic box with weird markings on it says food to us because we can read, to an animal it doesn't look like food unless someone teaches them to associate this non-food item with food. And the smells coming from something "too poisonous to consume", or just containing such powerful preservatives as to allow them to last 200+ years, would not indicate food to them either. Not only that, there are *heavy* implications in Fallout 3 itself that the food and water both make people sick on a regular basis.
While you might be right in the most general sense with those criticisms, the Capital Wasteland is uniquely positioned to create a realistically functioning society based on abnormal survival methods, which directly contradicts the conclusions you reach and the logic used to reach them. Life does what it can to survive, and the Wasteland makes scavenging not only a legitimate plan for survival, but a predominate strategy.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 Gonna make this as quick as possible.
A) Food as expiration dates. Even cans in Tin, which are capable of being 'consumable' for 100 years, are still both less nutritious/healthy than their newer counterparts, and after 200 years those tin cans are going to be even worse.
B) Capital Wasteland was hit by a large sum of nukes, more so (accordingly to the lore) than most of the USA. The majority of food would have not only been destroyed/melted by nuclear bombs, which have such a high intense heat and explosion that they can melt a majority of structures (much less food), but any other food that exists is going to become extremely toxic due to the radiation.
C) The added time of 200 years and radiation/intense burning fire is going to damage anything that was held as food hard. Even if the radiation has 'lessened', anything that was contaminated by it such as Food is going to still be extremely toxic as a whole. Tin, much less wrappings and cardboard, are not going to do much of anything to stop radiation from toxifying the food.
D) The majority of vegetation is dead, and the few that exists such as from Herbly the Not-Ghoul is a relatively rescent addition to the Mojave wasteland, which has not shown any herbivoric critters taking residence on the small island of green. Many predators, especially the bears, massive scorpions, deathclaws, and so forth can not live off of just Nake Mole Rats. Nake Mole Rats that, due to their size, would require a LOT of food just to live, and they are at least 5 times larger than regular Mole Rats (and the Real Life ones can consume kilometers worth of roots; the Giant Mole Rats would have killed off any surviving vegetation due to their increased need of consumption). At that point, the eco-system would result primarily large/mega-fauna, with the smallest being Dogs (who are also carnivores). The only ones that don't, the two-headed cows, would not have any vegetation to LIVE off of to begin with.
@@Khotgor A) Some. There are foods with indefinite shelf lives that maintain both flavor and nutrition. There are some with indefinite shelf lives that foul in flavor but won't make you sick and still maintain their nutritional value. You speak out of ignorance here.
B) The level of destruction we see is inconsistent with your conclusions. This is likely due to the obvious fact that people with a baked in cultural fear of nuclear war would probably have, at a societal level, simply accepted many changes in lifestyle to directly reduce the impact of that most fearsome event. In fact, it would make no sense for them not to, considering the time period we're talking about lasted for half of this fictional United States' lifespan. 300 years, and for almost half of it the fear of a nuclear apocalypse dominated their society. How can you even argue that this wouldn't have shaped their decisions?
C) The thing about radiation is that, by its nature, time lessens its effect. This argument runs counter to your point.
D) Your point about the vegetation isn't exactly... accurate. Dead trees, especially such small ones, wouldn't be left standing for hundreds of years. Perhaps they're not trees as we know them, but the sheer timescale tells us that those shriveled brown things are alive in some capacity. We also do see very clearly that there are grasses and bushes that very much still live. You're a bit incoherent with your thoughts on this point, but it should be fair enough to disregard most of it by simply countering the premise as I have here.
There is no evidence the ghoul child has been in the fridge since before the war, more likely a result of the attack on Quincy given his proximity.
The world of fallout seems to include a civilization that has mastered preservation of both food and structures, it's plausible their food can maintain nutrition well over 100+ years.
I agree with you on the strange state of Fallout 3s capital wasteland. When you consider Bethesda originally meant the game to take place only 50+ years after the bombs dropped makes the world's look make more sense. Bethesda really needs to tread old ground with Fallout
I disagree with Scott's No Dragon Cult/Last Dragonborn plot retrorecision ... but everything else presented in the video, IMO is dead-spot-on. I would LOVE to play that game.
i am in LOVE with every single one of these concepts, PLEASE write a story for this setting!! i wish we could get a skyrim remake like this.
For some reason, this makes me want to see more TTRPG of Elder Scrolls with you all. Ideally with Zaric as GM, playing in a 'corrected' version of 4th era Tamriel. I think the timing is right for those kind of videos to get lots of views. TTRPG channels are much more popular than when you did it last time.
That is exactly what this video made me want to do. I’m wrapping up my latest campaign soon, and this is something that I found really inspiring.
i also want more titty rpg
Boy, I can't wait for city modders to gain inspiration and ideas from this video. That would be fantastic!
It bothers me that Bethesda would remove spears when they were, literally, one of the most dominate weapons in history even late into the modern era. Ever heard of the Winged Hussars? Polish madlads who dominated battlefields with little more than lances and plate armor well into the 18th century. The removal of pole arms is just laziness.
sadly polearms and spear seems under appreciated
I would watch a 5 hour version of this and watch every second. Really cool video!
Fudgemuppet are bonafide troopers. Coming up with new videos while waiting a decade for ES6 to provide new material takes some serious creativity.
Honestly the way they let every game down with the scale of what they *could* do with what they *actually* do is just infuriatingly heartbreaking
Yeah, my enjoyment of Skyrim was more about what it could be and how it ignited my imagination than what it was.
Maybe they should just make smaller games with smaller scopes so they can focus more and disappoint less. Glad they're taking their time with ES6.
@@kevgmei Cope harder, bethesda haven't made a single good game for 10 years. What makes you think this time will be any different?
@@odiihinia So you mean their last good game was Skyrim lol?
@@kyliec0yote Try making your own universe with the things that inspire you about game literature and game lore then bro
I've started work on projects to hopefully tell a story fully imagined and properly realised in a game for the player to explore, as everyone here can agree needs to happen for TES' potential vs its reality
Great video, reminded me a bit of Zarics a while back.
Forgot about the orcs tho lol. Personally I'd like to see them paralleling the Eastmarch Dunmer, with influxes of refugees fleeing the destruction of Orsinium into the reach. They could clash with the nords and reachmen, and try to earn there place by mining and joining the legion. The strongholds should still be kept as well, just improved a bit and tied into the rest of the world. They could be struggling to stay out of the war, and recruiting individual strongholds or sacking them could be part of the Civil War questline.
Yep, Orcs would probably be the third largest group along side Redgaurds and Bretons in Markarth behind the Nord and Reachmen majority. The Orcs have lived in the Reach just as long as the Reachmen have and have warred with each other in the past and both races have been looked down upon by others to. So thier would be a interesting dynamic between them and the Reachmen. Some Orcs might be sympathetic to them, being fellow outcasts, while other might still hold grudges against them for the wars they have fought in the past for the Reach.
I think all of this would be an absolutely wonderful addition to the game. Ultimately a lot of it particularly involving the Thanes, comes down to the issue of size of the map. Skyrim should have been four times the size it was.
Almost the entire map of Skyrim is empty space, devoid of anything meaningful. Being 4x longer would only pad out the game time, and make trekking across the place even more tedious than it already is.
This was fantastic, and I’d certainly love to see a part two about the new plot
This is very well done! I feel like there is such great lore in TES that it is a shame they seemed to have not explored it as well in Skyrim as they did in past titles. Thanks for all the thought and work you put into this vision.
I really hope you do end up making a part 2 to this. A video based on changing Oblivion would be great too.
I am loving it! Honestly, there should be a mod, or multiple mods to implement these things.
Would definitely love a part 2 for the story and plot!
Amazing breakdown. I didn't realize just how inconsistent with the original lore skyrim was, same can be said about oblivion. I love both those games, but they retcon so much to make them work. This version of skyrim would've proved much more interesting to explore and experience.
I know you won’t see this, as this is an older video, but thank you so much for this. My biggest commendation is definitely on the timeline. When you suggested the changes, my first thought was “It isn’t already like this?” A suggestion I have is maybe doing a video on how you would improve all of the daedric quests, they were super lackluster in game. Regardless, youve reinvigorated my love of the elder scrolls universe, thank you!
Yall killed this. Great video. SOLID story building and lore consistency.
I would have liked to have seen more things in the water. More boats you could travel with, and definitely more underwater enemies and locations.
Yess!! The underwater life was so lacking, like a ghost town, just barren
@@miniespeon158 yes let's add underwater enemies that we can't fight ! seriously slaughterfish have such an annoying AI, wouldn't be an issue with underwater combat
"The Pirates of Tamriel". 🔥
Wow awesome!
Do you plan on covering what Dawnguard, Hearthfire, and Dragonborn could have been as well?
I’d enjoy those as well.
Hearthfire needed Preston Garvey.
I feel like Dawnguard is mostly “fine”, in terms of fitting into this new version of Skyrim. Other than a few minor things with the Snow Elves maybe. Hearthfire is fine too imo, it’s not that deep. Maybe an option to actually build your own settlements as opposed to just houses would be cool.
Dragonborn is obviously a much bigger challenge given the integral nature of dragons and dragonborns. I really like the presence of Mora throughout the players story even before the DLC, and how he influences you into becoming his champion. It’s really cool imo and I’d be sorry to see it go. It could obviously be reworked into him using you for another purpose but idk. I guess the story of the DLC could be more about the refugee Dunmer aspect and really delve into their relationship with the Nords. You could have Nord sympathetic dunmer and maybe ones that are borderline nearing “rebelling” against them. It’s tricky, I like this new version of Skyrim but I also love how Dragonborn executes some of the dragon lore.
The war paint substitute for armor would actually be interesting. Maybe it could be "equipped" taking up an armor slot like any other piece of clothing. An explanation could be that it needs to be uncovered to work, forcing the shirtless barbarian aesthetic. As bodypaint it would have low weight and could be some hard to get item to balance this.
I can imagine a questline where you have to go through ancient nord ruins to recover old, more powerful "motivs" (runes? symbols?) that grant more armor rating and magical effects than the standard paint. It could be about the nords, in their effort to become independent from the empire, reclaiming their ancient ways and customs. Ancient wisdom which had been lost through the empire forcing it’s way of life upon the "savages" and their "silly superstitions."
You put so much thought into this, and these changes make the world so much more alive and a lot of things make a bit more sense from a story perspective. I can't imagine how many hours went into this, but I really appreciate the great work!
I had to watch this twice cause of the ASMR. Fell asleep at 5 minutes both times.
If you need a sleep aid, this video is it.