A Reflection on Western Manga
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- 0:00 Intro
0:33 Whyt Manga/Apple Black
1:15 DD Mark/Ruthless Render
1:55 Lucas Brother/Project Divider
2:32 Viable Paths
3:42 Koffee's Messaging
6:07 "Manca"
6:33 Outro
A reflection on my interview with @muzisensei3493
indie, independent, western, manga, mangaka, whyt, manga, apple black, ddmark, ruthless render, lucas, project divider, eric july, youngrippa, isom, rdc, world, dark lights, manaa, manaaka, koffee, comics, muzi sensei, interview, discussion, anime, manga, fight, write, story, video, art, recap, songs, amv, characters, react, reaction, analysis
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Small correction: Winning first on Manga Plus =/= Gold Award. That's completely separate for some reason. However, Ruthless Render won Bronze once in Oct 2022, which should pay 100k yen according to the site, but he said he's made nothing from his work.
I remember asking him if he made money in his Instagram and he said yes, I think waht he meant is after his first win, he didn't get money anymore even if he did win some others time. I don't understand how the judging system works, but if you win bronze awards many times, it won't guarantee you money in mangaplus.
What would a manga from England be called?.
@@brendoncameron8757mangla
@@brendoncameron8757 “Menga” sounds good. (M-ENG-A.)
@@brendoncameron8757 a manga
As a fan of coffeee he did help wake me up in some regards but his tone isn't helping the goal of developing an industry that help foster new opportunities for western manga artists. We should be building communities and helping each other so that our dreams can become reality.
I agree
Yeah coffee's kind of narrow-minded in some of those attempts I mean the guy literally say one piece doesn't extrapolate from reality. Oh well at least the other people in a Subaru goes seem to be doing that
Here’s the thing, you have to realize that manga is a long standing industry. So called “western” manga (western is about cowboys) is still really new comparatively. Also, there are legends who struggled on their come up. Didn’t Toriyama live with his parents while he was in his early 20s getting one shots rejected? There are also legendary mangaka who will speak about how they had really low lows in their careers. So, I still stand to the position that Muzi is a disgruntled artist who projects his insecurities and biases onto others.
Yes please talk more about the successful indie artists out there who have made it to be sustainable. Talk about their strategies, failures, successes, etc...
Hahahaha Well they only getting started
As a “Westerner” It’s my whole dream to create a manga/comic one day, I probably won’t be heavy on the art side but the story is going crazy.
keep pushing bro you got it
You ain't alone
ditto but as an African
You can't compare the state of western manga to japanese manga, the industries are in two very different places. In japan theres 100s of publishers for new talent to break out in, not to mention even more digital platforms. What does Western Manga have besides a handful (i'd argue less than 5) of publishers? The digital platforms arent any better seeing as they all take the outdated models of the late 00s and just have people upload their content for free on sites (I.e Manga Plus/Global Comix). The reality is Western Manga, in particular, American Manga is still recovering from the damage that Tokyopop did to the viability of that industry during the early to mid 00s. It left such a negative stigma on what use to be called OEL manga, that most people refused to give a chance due to poor quality standards as well as artists having brutally unfair contracts. What I personally don't like about Koffee is that he is no better in skill, in execution, finance, or popularity than the artists (DD Mark, Whyt, Draper-ivey) he criticizes and yet presents himself as an authority on the matter, (despite never selling a fraction that guys like Whyt have) even worse, hes convinced a bunch of gullible people that he is.
If the western industry is truly to change it needs to address its three biggest issues, number 1 issue its lack of audience, American Manga needs to offer something that Japanese Manga doesnt. It can't just be Western Bleach or Western Dragon ball. Now perhaps we'll see a break away IP within the decade that would change that course, Similar to how Fist of the north star adapting elements of Mad Maxx did for the Japanese. But artists in that space need to find a Niche that isnt being filled on a quantative level on the japanese side and fill it. We saw how popular Ruri was in Shonen Jump, it goes to show that the manga audience is dying for new stories and not really craving any more of the Naruto or One Piece type stories. And Number 2, with that audience, there needs to be more publishers, now i dont agree with the whole Manaa movement (since it seems more like a cop out of skill than it is an actual diversion of artstyle) but the fact that new smaller publishers like OGO are popping is better for the space as a whole.
I hope we get 10 more new publishers before the end of the decade. And finally the last big issue is that the western space is filled with such petty shit flinging drama, there is no reason why videos on these dramas or hit pieces should be the things getting more attention than the actual work. it paints the industry and the people inside it as petty man children which makes it not only unattractive to a potential audience but potential business sponsorships/collabs, which further kneecaps the industry as a whole.
I don't know anything about what Tokyopop did, but I don't think Koffee needs to be better in skill or popularity in order to present himself as authority on the matter. When it comes to the business side, which is mostly what he talks about, all he needs is to have logical advice for business. He doesn't need to be the best or most popular artist to give advice on how Western manga can change.
"We saw how popular Ruri was in Shonen Jump, it goes to show that the manga audience is dying for new stories and not really craving any more of the Naruto or One Piece type stories." I don't agree with this. If people were "tired" of battle manga, then manga like Demon Slayer, JJK, and Chainsaw Man wouldn't still be selling insanely well, along with all the other established titles.
I also don't know if quantity in publishers is more important than quality. I believe that if there was at least one publisher that western manga artists could work for and make a decent living, the industry would be far better, but I don't plan on waiting for that and believe independence is a viable option.
I agree that the petty mudslinging isn't really helping the community, which is why I suggested that Koffee should focus on constructive and polite criticism to uplift those around him rather than hit pieces to tear them down.
Well said. A lot of these people who claim they want to be artists, seem to do mostly drama content and they do comics on the side.
Potential investors will see that as a red flag and move on, the really reputable ones at least.
However, I understand why they do it. They seem to be frustrated with their own progress, as many of them are arguably not close to mainstream industry level. SO, they lash out at others. It seems like a big cry for attention. Especially when you claim you are the one to rally behind as you “lead the front” while taking disparaging public shots at those who ACTUALLY have a platform, experience and connections. People who you could actually share your concerns with and potentially network. Nikolas Draper-Ivey, despite the criticism a certain individual wishes to throw at him, actually has books published and a connect to DC.
The narcissism of some of these folks is unreal at times.
You should read up on the OEL movement of the early 2000s. That is part of why western manga has a bad rep. You perhaps are too young to know about it or haven’t looked into it.
In any case, Koffee doesn’t use sound logic. He also shifts goal posts to appease his own bias. He claimed manga plus creators was a “scam” and nobody looks at it outside of other creators, but DD Mark is getting a deal with Dark Horse Comics who also publish Berserk, Blade of the Immortal, Ghost in the Shell, etc. Guess what? Dark Horse and articles made mention that DD Mark had over 11 million views online. SO, if a “scam” like manga plus creators leads to getting published, then maybe more people need to get scammed out here 🤷♂️.
Koffee claimed there was a “Big 3” in American comics naming DC, Marvel and Image comics lol 😂. Bro, he would have been laughed out of any convo with some degree of knowledge and credibility. That is the thing, is the credibility. It’s not because he doesn’t personally demonstrate achievements, which would be the experience, books, deals, or awards. He doesn’t have those, but I won’t say you need them to have an opinion. It’s that he says things that are wrong, like including Image in the same consideration as Marvel or DC. Marvel and DC dwarf Image. Marvel is like half the industry alone and DC is like 30%. Image is maybe 10%…maybe. So he doesn’t even speak the language of comics. That’s like trying to talk about what football players should do in a game and you don’t even know the positions on the field.
Koffee is just the loudest in the room, and you probably know how the saying goes about the loudest person in the room.
It was good to hear you two talk shop, I think getting the knowledge out there and explicating different routes creators may want to pursue for sustainability is a net good. The online publishing model can be viable if you're able to build an audience. The webmanga and comics titles Carciphona, Devil's Candy (this one actually got published under Viz), and Unsounded all have patreon accounts and things like merch. Of those three I only really read Unsounded, but artwise the other two are solid enough; and I've seen other webcomic artists use a similar strategy. Your amazon strategy is like the middle ground between the full online and the kickstarter/indiegogo publishing strategy a lot of indie comic artists seem to favor. On the note of Viz, they do actually have an open submission portal for manga to be reviewed by editors which may be a route some may want to try depending on the copyright ownership conditions they offer.
Capitalism and creativity don’t mix, that why many comic/manga artist do more than just draw comics as sources of income. The do commissions, conventions, and work on other comics/manga for other publishers. So this idea is living off your manga alone is crazy to me. In Japan they have an infrastructure built for Mangaka to live off of,but none of those Mangakas own their IPs. One piece and Naruto’s are billion dollar IPa but both creators are no where near billionaires. I do agree with you on the path of becoming an influencer to build and push an audience to your manga/comic. I’m doing that same with my TH-cam rn. Good luck on your journey man.
That's why I would never recommend anyone to give up their day job in this pursuit. It's all gamble.
he claims to be the crucible against demoralization and yet he's the biggest source of demoralization in the indie manga space
Firstly, I want to say that I think this was a very mature and well constructed response. I think it goes to show that with people like you at its back, the "Manca" industry still has some legs.
With that said. I'm American, and I'm a comic artist. I don't say this with an argumentative spirit, but rather with a desire to understand. Manga? Comics? I feel like Americans are the only ones struggling with this. Why differentiate? What is the ultimate goal? I'm looking through your channel now and there are definitely some other videos of yours that I'm going to watch but if this isn't something you've already addressed, I'd love to hear your take.
I personally don't care too much what they're called, but the differences are mostly in the culture and conventions. Both are pictures on paper, but the differences are within the execution. For example, people that call themselves "western manga artists" probably draw in black and white, use halftones, draw on b4 sized paper, tell stories that are more anime/manga-like, and might even draw their comics left to right. Manga and Comics have different visual and story styles, but its not like that's a requirement of their medium. It's just tradition. So Western Manga is just a subset of comics for people that enjoy the manga art and story style.
I really like your point about koffee softening his edges.
He has a video where he has conversation with another creator on his channel who asks and makes the same point. ( video: koffee comics vs comiken )
If i remember correctly, Koffee's response was that it's effective in live conversations but because it's online, he doesn't have the time to do that to that degree.
If the listener is offended, they're too soft and needs to toughen up.
I could be wrong, but I got the sense that koffee believes that if he were to be less harsh, his message won't have the impact it needs to have to inspire action in his listeners.
I really enjoyed your interview (gonna go like and comment there as well) and great reflection video
To that, I say you can inspire action in people without being harsh and turning away a potential audience. You can put fire and passion behind your message w/o adding brutality. It takes more effort, but it reaps more rewards.
It also seems like coffee can't handle the same type of criticism he dishes out to others. Cause yes I'm sure there are people disliking his series because he's him but there are legitimate criticisms with his story and I remember someone who criticized him even insulting his arm but not being mean about it coffee went off on him calling him a zombie hunchback all of that stuff
@@kingj9664 Koffee is really impolite, nonchalant, arrogant, conceited and too prideful. It might cause his failure if he's careless. But he doesn't know.
Ypu know way top much...
"I have to break your neck"
- Thanos -
(not ironically, this overwhelming knowledge of yours is very rewarding)
What might work is doing something akin to what Avatar did. Avatar has a very anime style and takes a lot of inspiration from anime, but it's still technically considered a western cartoon. Thus, instead of trying to get on Toonami, it got onto Nickelodeon. Something similar can be done with western manga. It can have a very manga style and take a lot of inspiration from manga, but instead of trying to get published by Viz or Saturday AM, it gets published by Image, IDW, Vertigo, or maybe Dark Horse because even though it's very manga-like, it's technically a western comic and not a manga
Exactly well said even in thé tezuka tournament they said that people need to be more original ect
Best comment but Forget about saturday am
I used to respect koffee but now I dont anymore after the latest video he made about DD mark, that video just really showed me how deranged and narcissistic he is and that he should not be taken too seriously, I think he is right about standards though
🍿🥤
Loved thé vidéo, will you do vidéos like this in thé future?
Manca definitely sounds better. 🤔
What about the Radiant manga? Its not american yes, but its by a french author/artist, (Tony Valente), therefore a western manga. Its popular enough to get an anime adaption with two seasons in both sub and english dub. Aside from that I thought it was pretty solid and had potential. Though I have not heard much from it in a while. Yet compared to these examples it's already more successful in comparison.
I love Radiant, but discussing it isn't helpful imo. Radiant is published by Ankama, a French entertainment company that makes manga. We don't have an American manga publisher that's actually solid and established, so what can we really learn from it? That's like looking at Japan and using Shonen Jump as an example. We don't have an equivalent, so what do we gain by trying to follow a path like that?
Funny you should bring that up because coffee actually made a video about radiant. Where he gives his dance on why he thought the series fail, Needless to say it's very opinionated and really get some stuff wrong
@@YumesukeSutashikajust keep your eye on shrine comics, a lot is going to be happening with it.
@@dragfang3723 None of them are "solid and established" like Ankama or Shonen Jump. Tony Valente can be a full time artist by working for Ankama. Can anyone be a full time artist working for Shrine or any of the other magazines you mentioned? Whyt Manga was SatAM's biggest artist, but even he couldn't be full time with Apple Black.
@@dragfang3723did thé game change then?
Just found your channel today looks really good, I got my issues with coffee and I'm glad you're pointing them out. Maybe I'm reading too much interest but it feels like coffee has kind of softened his edges on certain stuff, The reason I say that is if you go on a surugo you'll see a series called soul Ace one of the main characters is design a way that if you go on coffee's channel he's not a big fan of but he hasn't said anything about it, Which I find kinda weird. Anyway like your channel and maybe be prepare for when coffee responds to this video
It sounds like he picks and chooses when to "politic." If just politicked more often, or at least when it matters, I fell like he could accomplish much more.
@@YumesukeSutashika Finally saw the interview you did with him and as usual it's a mixed bag when it comes to coffee. Some things he said are right and some things not so much. Like say what you want about AM and whyt but him adding black people to his story does not feel forced. By the way have you read bloody hell? If you read bloody hell rather on webtoons or on a surrogate you'll see it's basically the same as every other shown in series he's been criticizing it relies on blood and it's not very inspirational. Sorry this was long just want to get my thoughts out
@@kingj9664I looked through the art, but I didn't actually read it. From what I've seen, I don't agree w/ a lot of his writing takes, but the reason I don't bring it up is because I'm more concerned with the business side when it comes to western manga, not the writing side.
@@kingj9664I think what he means by forced is if you been following whyt apple black the original OG volumes 1 & 2 and all his previous videos of characters background etc etc didn’t have the black female main in the story or the one black guy in it(I wanna say he changed one the dark lords to black character also).
I’ve had the og volumes since 2014(maybe or even longer) and was following whyt wayyy back when the he 1st started his TH-cam channel…
Now I have no problem with adding characters changing some and developing the story differently then before personally but it had got rebooted
I want to say it happened twice!!(when I say reboot I mean re releasing the 1st two volumes after a few years)
To me that was what kinda slowed the momentum down a tab bit of what it could of been…. (but who knows what would of happen it could of been bigger or maybe not. That reality didn’t happen we are here on this path of reality now)
Over the years I kinda lost touch with Sat Am and whyt so when I tap back in years later I seen what was happening the books was being re released I was lost because I was thinking by now it would of been about 4 to 5 volumes out by now and this was years ago..
Sat am had rebranded they added a lot of new titles like Paradise Down soul beat hammer but I seen that apple black would be missing out of some of the Sat Am volumes!! It made me sad because Apple Black was the reason I started really messing with Sat Am( don’t get me wrong I found a lot of cool titles on there like I previously stated) but it made me kinda sit back and wait then I lost touch again tbh
Then maybe like 2 and a half years ago I randomly got back on TH-cam and ppl I was subbed to years ago and seen that apple black was remastered a 2nd time with these new characters with the 1st 2 volumes out again.
I tap back in and found out that he was finally gettin to volume 3 & 4 which came out last year I was happy because after all these years got to finally see what was going to happen. But since I’ve been tapped back in I see my other favorite paradise down is rebooted again 🥹 and I really love that one. So I’ve been being hopeful
But Im basically saying/writing all that to say this
If he would of keep going from the original time he started it might have been a lot more impactful
And I hope if anyone is reading this I’m saying this wit no disrespect to whyt or SatAm at all I still will support. Heck I got all 4 volumes now.
But imagine the fans that been waiting just as or even longer than me how they might feel about it. I think that’s what koffee probably meant.
But if you look at it from a different perspective it is never to late!!! Everyday new fans are finding out about apple black so it’s new to some people so that’s all that matters this is their way of being introduced to it so we all gotta look from a positive aspect and sometimes from the opposite point of view all sides of the spectrum
Dude you’re spitting
Of course
My plan is to make chapters of my Magical Girl Series & after I have completed enough going to Japanese Publishers with my work while making more product. How funny would it be to see 60+ Page Chapters released on a weekly basis because I finish the series before it even starts printing. I'm making a series that could potentially pass as either Shonen or Shojo & my goal isn't to get animated or to make massive money amounts. I care more about making a series that calls back to the 90s & early 2000s & having pretty girls be able to surpass Shonen Protagonists in strength.
Dd Mark just got a book deal off of independently publishing on Manga Plus, so I guess Koffee was cooking nothing that whole time
Not talking about ddmari but if you think mangspluscreators is a good site, then it’s because guys like you that are ruining everything. Mangspluscreators is garbage
The thing about manga japanese have their own culture . Me as a mexican we have our own and i could potentially bring a new era in manga . Do you know how much that can change the game in manga? Japanese will be invested because this is something new
Just do your culture there is no other way
It is hard when you have to work 2 jobs. You have to be successful in other mediums for people to even give your manga a change, which is already extremely hard. You can't share it on manga sites cause they only allow pure Japanese blood manga, etc etc...
Im mangaplus creators and i made a oneshot comic to pass the time
I got two ongoing comics i havent updated since 2023...
Im working on my burnout but im trying my best to go through and draw and publish
I dont be going through shit again where i cabt finish something and abandon it ...ill go back to it but yeah pushing through and growing your audience is important
I don't think Mangaplus is the way
@@YumesukeSutashika I can build my website on wix, its the only place I use for now
@@YumesukeSutashikaFacts
@@YumesukeSutashikaFacts
@@maymay5600 yeah
Coffee’s polarizing approach is actually what I think will keep him at the top. It’s something similar to Trump. 10 extremely passionate fans who drop thousands of dollars to support you are better than a million people who find you acceptable but wouldn’t pay a dollar to move you forward.
I partially agree. I think the polarization makes him as an individual stand out and build an audience, but it doesn't help the industry as a whole, just him. If the top creators are all beefing with each other instead of working together to grow the young industry, then the industry will slow down in progress.
There’s only one thing I actually disagree with that you said in this video, and that is the statement that he is spear heading ManaA/Onsoru go. Believe it or not he’s actually relatively new to the OGO team. While they just had a soft relaunch recently OGO has been around for a few years now, and their following/fan base has nothing to do with him specifically. I worked along side Seji for years as he built Ogo with his team of creators. While I’m not apart of Ogo myself I can respect sejis grind. Also I’m pretty sure Seji has a way larger following than he does as well.
Interesting. I never heard of OGO or Manaa before Koffee, and I don't think I ever would've heard of it if it wasn't for him. So that's why to me, it looks like he's spearheading the movement. But it's definitely interesting to learn that he inherited the Manaa following.
@@YumesukeSutashika that’s probably because he’s the only one talking about it on TH-cam, but the rest of the Ogo team has been pushing ManaA just as long as he has. I’m personally not apart of Ogo myself, but I’ve known Seji and a few of the other creators within for years.
Plus the fact that Muzi takes pot shots at your company, artists and products.
He tells Inuupen to leave. Criticizes and mocks Shrine’s direction as a company, and spoke on how one of the creators interacts with his son.
I would think you would find a lot to disagree with bro on. Idk how everyone else operates, but you don’t have say too much for me to see we aren’t on the same frequency.
You can’t target my affiliates and be neutral with me. Doesn’t work that way. Never will. But to each their own.
Muzi is the vocal face and speaks the loudest in the room. He free spits so much that even all of his negative assertions and claims (ex: discrediting the validity of autism) will become attached to OGO, as he is a member.
He wants his ego to be validated so much that he will actually speak to the detriment of the brand. Which for Seji, I have no idea how that is a desirable business model. Unless you want publicity built from antagonism and propaganda. See how efficient that model is. But I won’t drop too many business gems.
People think they are smarter than what they really are, and it shows that his brand of “coffee” will never be a Starbucks or even Tim Horton’s lol. It will sit on the table of the cold and bitter.
What is Western manga meant to be?
I'm unsure if the influencer route is sustainable. I mean I think you can if you know how to market yourself. And understand your nieche audience and create hype and less about spoiling your own work.
Good video, why you talkin like robot though
What you got against robots?
RDC world have connections and they are rich. No hate to them but I wouldn't follow their path.
That's fair, but from what I know, their money goes into getting the manga made. I can write and draw, so I don't need their amount of money. What I'd be trying to imitate is the amount of fans they acquired through their videos.
@@YumesukeSutashika same but I honestly think the thing that will take western manga to the next level is being greenlit by a large company like Netflix, hulu, or Amazon prime and im not talking about that stuff made by lesean thomas because he fumbled hard
RDC is only getting an anime because of their reputation not because their manga is any good their manga can suck and they will still anime
At what point in this video or the interview did I bring up quality? I'm only talking about the business side.
Kind of weird you brought up RDC and not Eric as well. Plus have you read their manga? I've read it it seems all right
@@kingj9664 I don't read comic book so I didn't bring it up. Also rdc's manga is mostly about people fighting and street beefs and superpower so what's the story with no substance theme or messaging is not trying to say anything.
@@bearbros6385 OK then and I'm not so sure about that I feel like once we get later on in the story we'll find that there is a message and some kind of theme to it. Cause that's looks like what it is maybe about the dangers of gang violence or protecting coming to go to protect our communities.
@@kingj9664 I mean that PREMISE has been overdone and only further illustrate the point that Koffee made about the unfair advantage of popularity and pay-to-win discoverability. Do we have a platform that pushes quality of the craft with proportionate reward? That's the crux of the criticism.
The idea of 'western manga' is sort of a dumb concept when you know it technically doesn't exist nor a market. The only reason it even works in Japan in the first place, because that's their equivalent of comics industry in the west anyway. Also, Shonen Jump is huge conglomerate which manages the most of the marketing and distribution rights of the IPs created under their umbrella. It's basically the equivalent of working for Marvel, DC or Image Comics.
That's why most 'western' manga fail. They don't have the presence nor the push to even compare. Also, a lot of creators don't know the reality of a lot of our mangaka. In order to be one, you sort of have no have a life outside your primary work. The industry is notorious for inhumane work conditions and it's ingrained into Japanese culture. So, honestly most western manga artists will never compare to the greats anyway, because their work ethic isn't abnormal, like the Japanese.
Maybe, you can do monthly manga, but even that's time consuming itself to get most illustrations on to the page. Another reason why western manga will never take off comes down to one reason. Who's genuinely the market?
I'm not talking about just people who love manga, why would anyone read western manga over the preestablished Japanese stuff, which has been ingrained into mainstream culture for a long time? Not to mention, the only reference most artists have is what gets localised over here? That's why most of western manga is pretty similar as they only follow the most popular examples in their wake. It's that limited exposure to the medium and surface level understanding of what made it great to read. At the end of the day, they are stories. It's the job of the mangaka to tell us the story they want to tell.
I don't get such thing from western manga. Most times, it comes across they just anime fans who want to be like their idols which isn't bad. Then, they realise they have to tell an actual story which most aren't capable of doing. Mangakas aren't just artists they are also writers aswell, they do manuscripts and many other things before they do anything. Western manga artists are just artists who just want to replicate what they seen. Most I don't think want to tell a story. Just want something to look cool.
A lot of you are trying to appeal to a market which technically doesn't exist and it will continue to be foolish errand to continue to do so. I wish I was wrong, but it's a waste of energy when most people will go for the superior Japanese examples at the end of the day.
I had asked a question a few years ago on another youtuber's video whether western made manga (or oel manga what it used be called) would have better chance now since manga/anime are super popular than it was in the mid 2000s. Today you answered that question, thank you very much.
"Who's genuinely the market? why would anyone read western manga over the preestablished Japanese stuff?" I don't think you realize that comics aren't "substitute products." If I buy Coke, I'm not buying Pepsi because they are substitute products. If I buy a Batman comic, I can still buy a Superman comic, a Spiderman comic, and a DBZ comic. That's because comics aren't substitutes. So arguing that Japanese manga means there's no room for Western manga is ignorant.
@@cookietoonam116 Don't listen to this person. He doesn't seem to know basic economics.
@@YumesukeSutashika That's the thing, japanese manga encompasses an whole industry, as I said. That's basically the their version of comics. While, western manga is imitation of that industry without full understanding of why that works. It's almost a completely different demographic. While, I understand the sentiment.
Western manga is probably more comparable to how light novels and webtoons started out. But, even then this industry doesn't have foundation to go beyond just a niche for some artists. Even then, they would need a bigger entity to push them into the mainstream. Saturday AM only failed because it's too niche and there's not much of audience for it, outside for some youtubers.
Even as a follower of the scene here and there. From the looks of it, the whole genre was never going to take off. As now, it's only appealing to one type of shonen series, action oriented ones. When shonen is much more than just action. Combined with most artists in the western scene only know the most popular types of anime series as their inspiration. There's no wonder. Most creators are just anime fans tbh. They don't seem to have much interests outside that.
@@YumesukeSutashika But he is telling the truth. I have encounter many manga readers who have said manga from Japan is better and that oel manga isn't as good. people who reads manga knows the difference.