"We are always trying to compare things instead of appreciating things for what they are" this needs to be said more. I cant stand to be part of the anime community that much because people just want to say that manga X is better than manga Y because of reasons.
Seinen elitists having an identity crisis after reading Chainsaw Man. Fellas, I meant CM is typically enjoyed by seinen fans so it gives them a crisis since it's still categorically shonen. I never said it's closer in tone to a seinen or better than other shonen series.
I think it’s still okay to say “I prefer Seinen to Shounen” or vise versa. You just have to understand you’re saying “you prefer manga target at an older audience”
Also to let you know, many manga are classified as Seinen because of the characters that they use is hard for younger readers to read. I don’t know Japanese, but that’s likely why stuff like K-On and Kaguya-Sama are classified as Seinen. So you might not be experiencing a mature story, but a story that just uses challenging words for a specifically Japanese audience.
But it kinda doesn't make sense to say (or mean) "i prefer manga target at an older audience", because this does not actually describes your preferences, since there are seinens that have nothing in common, while there are dozens of seinens and shonens that have much in common.
Nah, the terms shounen and seinen never meant anything to me. Great arts are the same to me. Just like classic Spongeboob and Breaking Bad, both are amazing art for different reason, and I feel stupid if I tried to compare them.
I used to be a Seinen Elitist but now I opened up to Shounen shows/mangas and found them to be unique and interesting *in their own way.* People need to stop having comparing contests and just enjoy them
@@novakiceya but he just started shonen same could be said for me i was a big shonen elitist but 2 years ago when i discovered senien it felt unique and interesting.
Great Teacher Onizuka is a shonen yet it had brought up many important and debatable topics into its series while still being a comedy centred manga which many seinen didn't even thought of talking even nowadays. The demographic matters very little as long as the author fully utilizes the medium he's given
This is truly an eye opener for both shonen and seinen demographics. I remember reading Aot and CSM for the first time and I was like " how the hell are these shonen? Then I eventually read Kaguya sama and found out it was a seinen manga and I got confused. This just explains the fact there's little to no line between manga demographics so instead just look at the manga for what it is and if you like then you like it. Great video Masked man👍🏼
@@samueloak1600It shouldn't be. I l don't understand how the editors at WSJ, a very family friendly magazine, allowed for Fujimoto to include an actual lesbian orgy panel in his manga. 13 year old children don't to need be exposed to that kind of explicit stuff.
I'm so glad you mentioned josei in this video because out of the four main manga demographics (five if you count kodomo), josei is easily the most unknown one. The fact that josei is so obscure makes me interested in reading mangas that fall under that demographic and it doesn't seem to ever get much love.
To be honest this video really opened my eyes alot, I was victim of the shonen and seinen comparison but after this video especially that final quote bit I will view things in a better light.
Thank you for this wonderful video😁👍 I have observed the past year that people love comparing two different movies/shows/anime/manga or any entertainment source and boast about the show they like and critize the show they think is inverior to an extreme degree when most of the time i love both of the anime/manga etc Some people forget that we are consuming them for entertainment purposes and to enjoy and cherish them, not compare them so much that some people do not want to consume something because of the amount of hate that anime/manga gets even when that series is good And hate on a popular series because of the amount of love it gets or they want to separate themself from the crowd
I find it funny that Shojo & Josei dont have this problem, from what I've seen at least, since they're targeted for teenage girls (shojo) & young women or older women (josei) Speaking of shojo & josei, I highly recommend reading nana, its considered a "shojo" but is more like a "josei" I believe you'll love it
Nana is only considered a shojo because it is published in a shojo magazine. It's like saying Fire Punch is considered a "shonen" but is more like a "seinen."
@@AbstractInhuman I can't understand how someone can watch a bloody video on the subject , read comments talking about it and still not get it through their skulls. Shonen and Seinan mostly mean anything other than which demographic it's targeting. They are not genres and moreso superfluous. If you stay attached to this definition because you somehow think reading Seinan manga makes you look more mature and adult, I hate to say it but just read an actual book like Blood Meridian or Kafka on the Shore.
Glad to see you doing a remaster! Revisiting past perspectives can be very important, especially for someone like you who's fresh out of publishing his own manga. Im sure it'll be interesting looking back for you in the future. On another note, a great video as always. Comparisons like these are certainly interesting, especially in our modern environment where more varied stories seem to gain a lot more track. I'll be looking forward to your next upload, so keep at it!
There's a reason why Shonen jump speaks to SO MANY of us. And from so many different cultures. So To write it off as it were nothing is annoying. Bleach is a series that can glide from Shonen to seinen.
As a someone who have read both berserk and one piece many many times i can confirm that i am into fantasy adventure action and mystery. I already stopped choosing series by shonnen shojo or senin after the revel of doffy and vilot relationship in one piece and berserk suddenly showing alot of fantasy type world building and mysteries.
It's interesting to see how the masked man's vision and perspective bout mangas changed and evolved a lot overtime and how different it is from the masked from back 3 years ago "who used to be that typical asshole of seinen elitist" XD (of course I'm exaggerating), everyone has done mistakes, but not everyone can accept them to grow. That being said. Great video as usual, masked.
I think the biggest thing is that Shounen often portrays it's themes through lense of a teenager whilst sienen does so through the lense of an adult, regardless of genre. I think a good example is how sexuality is portrayed, where shounen often shows it as something desirable but tabboo and mysterious, seinen won't shy away from outright showing sex since it's such a regular part of adult life. Character arcs in seinen are often coming of age stories whilst seinen character arcs often more exisitential, akin to the experience a young adult goes through. An argument can be made that younger/older audience demographics are formed by the perspectives of it's protagonists and the fundamental ideas portrayed within the narrative. Yes you can easily make a categorization based on which magazine it was published in but, I think if you broke down the age demographics of each manga/anime you'll see a much more accurate result on whether it falls within seinen or shounen.
a lot of the most popular shonen appeal to basically everyone i watched one piece at 3 and im sure imma gonna be watching it well into my 20s, depending how long it goes on.
Bocchi The Rock is a seinen manga (along with a lot of other cute girls do cute things manga). Funny thing is one of the dudes from the Trash Taste podcast went to a Bocchi The Rock themed cafe in Japan and majority of the people there were adult men in suits, reflecting the manga's target demographic. Ironically he also said that when he went to a Berserk themed cafe it was majority girls lol.
Personally, I’m more into shonen, as I find that’s often what attracts me the most. I’ve noticed how most of my favorites list compose of shonen. However, seinen definitely surpasses most shonen manga, and its chock full of the best manga/anime I’ve read like Berserk, Vagabond, Vinland Saga, Punpun, Monster, Pluto, Jojo’s, Holyland, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun (I’m pretty sure it’s a seinen), but even shonen has some of the best imo like GTO, Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk, D. Gray-Man, One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, Yu Yu Hakusho, Mob Psycho, Bleach, etc. Honestly, it’s an annoying comparison. They each have strengths and flaws, but they’re each enjoyable in their own way. Just have fun reading and watching what you like.
Those categorizations are demographic terms, but they are categorizations of MAGAZINES too. Japan have, or have had, a prominent magazine/publisher-dominated culture. Certain manga magazine cultivates certain kind of content, just like Japanese literary magazines share new award-winners like sharing a gold mine. So when we talk about Shonen, Shojo, Seinen and Josei, we're talking about the field magazines operate. The weekly-magazine-reading habitus is really not like how we read manga online these days. And I think, aesthetically speaking, Shonen "field" is the most balanced one. Shojo is largely pattern and repeat, and Seinen and Josei are very creative and largely don't follow tropes. Shonen has the creativity and patterned tropes. That's part of why wide anime media is dominated by Shonen. The other part is selling point. The selling point of Shojo is the character design. Seinen and Josei are closer to traditional storytelling than the others. But Shonen? Shonen's selling point is hype. So when it comes down to marketing, Shojo are consumed by audience and that's probably the end of it, unless you're counting BL. Seinen and Josei are as hard (or easy) as traditional literature to sell, and not everyone is Shakespeare. And when someone fucked up their story? Normies might say it's author's fault, but otakus often say it's editors' fault: we can talk about and compare these fields, because they are actual process of making manga media, editors have weekly meeting discussing which or what kind of manga would be published. Editors only have two jobs: make authors' stories become good (selling) stories, and make them serialized non-stop (unless you're Oda and you're making One Piece, then you should really stop the serialization sometime soon). So when a certain kind of magazines produce a certain kind of stories? That's publishers' manipulation showing up. That's the production of "genre". I guess it might be too hard for someone who don't read manga magazines to understand this, but it's true. Or at the very least, it's true for Japanese and Taiwanese readers.
So, Elitist vs Power scalers competing to see who’s the most annoying to deal with. They’re demographics and within said demographics there exists a variety of works of varying quality.
Delinquent Manga Reccomendation: Crows, Worst, Out, Clover, Rokudenashi Blues, Kyou kara ore wa, Sun Ken Rock, GTO, A-bout, Change Guy, QP, Drop, Bouncer, Sugarless etc
The reason why ppl confuse shounen and Seinen is because the most popular shounen manga in the West is from shounen jump, which mainly mainly makes action comedy series. Which is why when shounen jump produces works outside said genre like death note, promised neverland, and chainsaw man they are seen as “unusual” for shounen manga. Same with other shounen manga like attack on titan which is published in Shōnen magazine who normally publishes more diverse works like sports, romance, comedy, and thriller on top of action
You literally changed my perspective dude, even tho I've never been an elitist and I enjoyed both shonen-seinen anime, it's not that I prefer seinen, it's just that seinen tend to have themes of my interest more.
I look at how entertaining the seires is regardless of the good writing or category the series belong. That is why for me series like One Punch Man and Prison School is up there with PunPun and berserk as they all achieve greatness in their category and are great medium of entertainment
I've been saying the same thing for YEARS about In N Out vs Whataburger. The two literally have nothing in common. In N Out is a classic burger joint with a simplistic menu that does a very good job at one thing. Whataburger has a large complex menu with new/seasonal menu items with an overall goal of competing as a modern-day fast-food restaurant. I swear every time I say to someone "I love In N Out" they almost always say "I prefer Whataburger" or "Which do you like better? Whata or In N Out?" To which I say, "I PREFER RED LOBSTER TO IN N OUT BUT WE"RE TALKING ABOUT OLD FASHIONED BURGER CHAINS" Thanks for the video Masked, I'm glad to know I'm not alone in my plight.
I think a part of it is that at least when it comes to things like specifically battle shounen, they tend to share tropes and conventions, so people end looking at it as a genre cuz it kinda ends up feeling like one. I even remember one guy saying something along the lines of "shonen is a demographic; battle shonen is a genre" which is certainly an interesting take. You also end up with terms like "battle shonen adjacent" for none battle series that end up feeling very similar to battle shonen like Food Wars or Dr. Stone. To add to the point of the video, UQ Holder is a shonen and has 3 full blown sex scenes within the span of like 5-7 chapters. Tsugumomo is a seinen that's straight-up softcore hentai, but otherwise feels like a typical battle shonen. Then there's Bungo Stray Dogs, which is the most battle shonen ass seinen I've ever seen.
@@samueloak1600 What about them? Never seen Dr, Slump, so I have 0 opinions on that. Death Note however, I remember EyepatchWolf and pthers saying something about it like "non battle-battle manga", so essentially, I guess that'd be battle shonen adjacent too. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean. That Death Note feels like a seinen? I guess, but I was just naming a few noteworthy (and extreme) examples off the top of my head.
@@s3studios597 oh nah, Death Note doesn't really feel like a seinen imo, I just meant that many shōnen series deviate a lot in tone from the standard typically associated with the "genre", even if they are about confrontation like Death Note
I'll always remember the reaction of my friend when I told her that Kaguya sama and My Dress up Darling were a seinen and other anime and manga like Banana Fish, Claymore, Devilman, etc. wasn't
The fandoms that compete or argue over whether Shounen or Seinen is better is why I do not converse with others often, you ruin discussions or communities because of childish bickering. Then there are Seinen readers like Berserk that make their fandom insufferable to interact with. I enjoy both manga genres but shift more toward Shounen.
It never comes to my mind if it's Senin or Shonen when reading the manga or watching the anime. It's just about the quality and genre i want to enjoy at the time.
My favorites type of manga are mostly original/dark shonens (hxh, Aot, CSM, JJk...) And dark and psychological seinen (berserk, gantz, Oyasumi punpun, Takopii no genzai...) But I'll never look down on ppl who like classic shonen, Josei, shojos, It's called taste
I hate how most seinen fanboys are hypocrites, they act like a character being a good guy is boring and trash but when thorfinn does it its peak fiction? Get outta here
Lmao kinda true tbf Edit: however Thorfinn deserves it. Well for mostly Farm Arc. His execution is well done. The themes of pacifism are well done here. Until he needs 100 punches or stops a duel because a girl hits his Thorkell away. The themes get cheesed there
I don't think that comparing different genres and titles is a bad thing at all. In the same way, comparing different players with different styles in football can give you a different perspective of the way the game is played, comparing how different authors approach the same topic in different ways can give you different perspectives on the same problem without actually taking away the credit these authors deserve in the first place.
@@rakhatthenut3815No, Seinen and shonen explore the same subject for different ages which still makes my comment valid taking into account that they would explore the topic with distinct approaches.
The obvious must be said again and again,as new people enter this hobby of watching anime. Don't feel frustrated,is just what happens as new people come in,it just means the fandom is getting bigger.
I just hate these terms so much. When people are talking about “Shonen” when they are literally just referring to battle manga. And when they are referring to Seinen they think historical fiction and dark fantasy. We should stop using these terms to categorize manga. Not to mention that a lot of Seinen get categorized in that demographic because it uses more complex symbols that only adults can read.
My personal favorites are scattered all over places. There are shonen, seinen and shojo (haven't found something in josei yet, but it's only a matter of time). I love something when it's well done. The intended demographic doesn't really matter.
I often stick in the shounen demographic mainly because that's what is readily available to me. I'm a casual of casuals, and I don't necessarily have the time to delve into the annals of manga to find enjoyable stories. But I have explored a few Seinen. Mostly, I'm a meat head (blame it on DBZ), so if fists are flying or weaponry is involved, I'll probably enjoy it.
Yeah, I used to have the misconception of Shonen, Seinen, etc. being a genre rather than a target demographic because of how the term is being used as if it were a genre, but now I understand it's just that a large portion of Shonen and Seinen have similar themes or story structures that some classify it as a shounen/seinen genre, making it confusing to others.
Now that I think about it, most of my favorite anime/manga are shounen. Gintama, Hunter X Hunter, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Jojo's Bizarre adventure, Death Note, Slam Dunk, Hajime no Ippo, Dragon Ball, Cromartie High School, One Piece, Mob Psycho, Detective Conan, School Rumble, Bleach, Nurarihyon no Mago, D-Grey Man, Yu Yu Hakusho, Naruto, Jujutsu Kaisen, Frieren, Great Teacher Onizuka, Kyou Kara Ore Wa, Rookies, Crows, Claymore, My Hero Academia, Angel Densetsu, Fist of the North Star, Rokudenashi Blues, etc.
This video is 90% redundant. It could be summed up by saying people who “like seinen” instead like themes more often appreciated by a seinen or mature male audience and conversely for shonen. I guess he need video length for add revenue, I respect it.
I’ve always looked at the target audience part of the Manga and anime classifications as something very weird and not always lining up with the actual audience or even who’s being targeted. Claymore is an example of a well known seinen manga that ran weekly in shonen jump while K-on doesn’t strike anyone as seinen and is classified as such because that’s simply the magazine that it ran in. I always tend to at least attempt to divide what I read and watch by what kind of subject matter it covers and make that my dividing line between seinen, shonen, shojo, and josei. It makes for a better system to me because the darker and more mature the subject matter like Claymore, Dark Gathering, Frieren, and even JJK tend to make for better classification in seinen than shonen. Then again that’s all just me
still dont get why shonen and seinen fans constantly argue with it each, cuz u dont really see shoujo and josei fans doing that and they tend to like both
It’s really a pointless argument that has more to do with personal taste than objective quality, you can even find manga that would be considered Seinen being released by Shonen Jump anyway, so arguing about which is better is a waste of time.
yeah its just unfortunate that most people don't even try to branch out to new genres and demographics in the first place and a majority of the community just talk about the same anime over and over again
Well, My Favorite Mangas are literally the combination of Shonen and Seinen My Top 15 rn 15. Baki Series 14. Tekken Chinmi 13. Gamaran 12. Clover 11. Bleach 10. Hajime no Ippo 9. Toriko 8. Attack on Titan 7. Naruto 6. Magi+Sinbad 5. Vagabond 4. Crows+Worst series 3. 20th+21st Century Boys 2. One Piece 1. Berserk and Kingdom
Masked Man Ik you’ve made a video about Naruto twice, but plz do a video of Naruto main theme, I’ve seen nobody make video about it, it’s not the cycle of pain, but a WORLD THAT CANT ESCAPE FATE, trust me once u see Naruto in this way it’s everywhere
The main take away is that shounen fans and seinen fans will always be in a competitio to see whos more annoying
On a more positive note, there are some competitions where everyone is the winner :)
@@goggles8691 i like the ones where everyone can lose
(they're the same)
Seinen fans take the cake here ngl
I have no enemies...
[Proceeds to spam "I have no enemies" everywhere]
"We are always trying to compare things instead of appreciating things for what they are" this needs to be said more. I cant stand to be part of the anime community that much because people just want to say that manga X is better than manga Y because of reasons.
One Piece Fans need to hear that
@@loganstaark9411 they are too biased to
without comparison and competition we will never grace great things so it is necessary
@@gnrsamir it is necessary. the problem is the argumentation is often: Manga X is better than manga y because manga y isnt manga x.
@@CeltyST96 that's exaclty what I thought buddy. Literally sepw in a nutshell.
Seinen elitists having an identity crisis after reading Chainsaw Man.
Fellas, I meant CM is typically enjoyed by seinen fans so it gives them a crisis since it's still categorically shonen. I never said it's closer in tone to a seinen or better than other shonen series.
Honestly bro or they just disregard as basic Shonen trash it’s so annoying that they can’t just accept it’s a great series
@@sanjaynambisan2538 I think they're even more annoying than the shonen "meatheads"
Tell me you didnt read Chainsawman without telling me you didnt read Chainsawman
They hate csm tho
CSM changed to seinen I'm pretty sure.
I think it’s still okay to say “I prefer Seinen to Shounen” or vise versa. You just have to understand you’re saying “you prefer manga target at an older audience”
Also to let you know, many manga are classified as Seinen because of the characters that they use is hard for younger readers to read. I don’t know Japanese, but that’s likely why stuff like K-On and Kaguya-Sama are classified as Seinen. So you might not be experiencing a mature story, but a story that just uses challenging words for a specifically Japanese audience.
But it kinda doesn't make sense to say (or mean) "i prefer manga target at an older audience", because this does not actually describes your preferences, since there are seinens that have nothing in common, while there are dozens of seinens and shonens that have much in common.
Exactly
Nah, the terms shounen and seinen never meant anything to me. Great arts are the same to me. Just like classic Spongeboob and Breaking Bad, both are amazing art for different reason, and I feel stupid if I tried to compare them.
@@rakhatthenut3815 Exactly.
I used to be a Seinen Elitist but now I opened up to Shounen shows/mangas and found them to be unique and interesting *in their own way.* People need to stop having comparing contests and just enjoy them
most shounen just follow the same shit and are so predictable
@@novakice aiit bro
@@novakice I found elitists.
Cry me a river from your elitists tears I heal myself whenever your kin does that
@@novakiceya but he just started shonen same could be said for me i was a big shonen elitist but 2 years ago when i discovered senien it felt unique and interesting.
@@novakicelike berserk
The Masked Man blessed us with 3 videos this week alone and I couldn't be more thankful 🙏🏻
Amen.
Great Teacher Onizuka is a shonen yet it had brought up many important and debatable topics into its series while still being a comedy centred manga which many seinen didn't even thought of talking even nowadays. The demographic matters very little as long as the author fully utilizes the medium he's given
agreed buddy, and his seinen sequel is good but not as great as the young gto and gto manga.
This is truly an eye opener for both shonen and seinen demographics. I remember reading Aot and CSM for the first time and I was like " how the hell are these shonen? Then I eventually read Kaguya sama and found out it was a seinen manga and I got confused. This just explains the fact there's little to no line between manga demographics so instead just look at the manga for what it is and if you like then you like it. Great video Masked man👍🏼
It’s because we don’t know what were talking about probably
Aot is 100% shounen
@@magnificentbananabutter2475so is CSM
Yea I'm sure we all went through that phase as kids where we confused demographics for genres 😂
@@samueloak1600It shouldn't be. I l don't understand how the editors at WSJ, a very family friendly magazine, allowed for Fujimoto to include an actual lesbian orgy panel in his manga. 13 year old children don't to need be exposed to that kind of explicit stuff.
I'm so glad you mentioned josei in this video because out of the four main manga demographics (five if you count kodomo), josei is easily the most unknown one. The fact that josei is so obscure makes me interested in reading mangas that fall under that demographic and it doesn't seem to ever get much love.
To be honest this video really opened my eyes alot, I was victim of the shonen and seinen comparison but after this video especially that final quote bit I will view things in a better light.
Both sides have elitists yet people think seinen only has elitists
because it’s mostly true.I have only seen HXH and Jojo fans being elitists,while all seinen meatriders trying to be elotists
Love you're edits bro ❤️
always a good day when the masked man uploads
Thank you for this wonderful video😁👍
I have observed the past year that people love comparing two different movies/shows/anime/manga or any entertainment source and boast about the show they like and critize the show they think is inverior to an extreme degree when most of the time i love both of the anime/manga etc
Some people forget that we are consuming them for entertainment purposes and to enjoy and cherish them, not compare them so much that some people do not want to consume something because of the amount of hate that anime/manga gets even when that series is good
And hate on a popular series because of the amount of love it gets or they want to separate themself from the crowd
I find it funny that Shojo & Josei dont have this problem, from what I've seen at least, since they're targeted for teenage girls (shojo) & young women or older women (josei)
Speaking of shojo & josei, I highly recommend reading nana, its considered a "shojo" but is more like a "josei" I believe you'll love it
Love Nana, highly recommended to everyone
Shoujo and josei fans have a different problem, stateside: griping over boys not throwing money and attention at shoujo and josei manga.
@@seg162 I've read manga for 20 years and never heard of people doing that. Maybe it's because I'm one of those boys buying it, who knows lol.
Nana is only considered a shojo because it is published in a shojo magazine. It's like saying Fire Punch is considered a "shonen" but is more like a "seinen."
@@AbstractInhuman I can't understand how someone can watch a bloody video on the subject , read comments talking about it and still not get it through their skulls.
Shonen and Seinan mostly mean anything other than which demographic it's targeting. They are not genres and moreso superfluous.
If you stay attached to this definition because you somehow think reading Seinan manga makes you look more mature and adult, I hate to say it but just read an actual book like Blood Meridian or Kafka on the Shore.
Glad to see you doing a remaster! Revisiting past perspectives can be very important, especially for someone like you who's fresh out of publishing his own manga. Im sure it'll be interesting looking back for you in the future.
On another note, a great video as always. Comparisons like these are certainly interesting, especially in our modern environment where more varied stories seem to gain a lot more track.
I'll be looking forward to your next upload, so keep at it!
Hated his old video when I saw it months ago, but this revision is looking great
7:45 « slice of life comedy »
Shows goodnight Punpun
prank 'em
Amen, brother! Well stated points all throughout!
Thank you for elaborating the difference of Genre and Demographic. This video help a lot and h9pefully th3 misconseption gets fixed in the future.
There's a reason why Shonen jump speaks to SO MANY of us. And from so many different cultures. So To write it off as it were nothing is annoying.
Bleach is a series that can glide from Shonen to seinen.
As a someone who have read both berserk and one piece many many times i can confirm that i am into fantasy adventure action and mystery. I already stopped choosing series by shonnen shojo or senin after the revel of doffy and vilot relationship in one piece and berserk suddenly showing alot of fantasy type world building and mysteries.
Thanks masked for the shout out and i have been watching your videos since 2019. 🙂
You've been cooking so much lately you're now a master chef and cool to see this one get a redux
Essentially just elitists vs powerscalers
Hit the nail right on the head
Snobs vs children
Children is not a good discription because many of them are adults and act like child. More like manchild@@xandex69
Nah its manga readers vs anime watchers, be real nobody watches seinen anime the only good ones are monster and vinland, plus vinland isn't finishing.
It's interesting to see how the masked man's vision and perspective bout mangas changed and evolved a lot overtime and how different it is from the masked from back 3 years ago "who used to be that typical asshole of seinen elitist" XD (of course I'm exaggerating), everyone has done mistakes, but not everyone can accept them to grow. That being said. Great video as usual, masked.
That is also the reason why I can't watch his older videos.
I think the biggest thing is that Shounen often portrays it's themes through lense of a teenager whilst sienen does so through the lense of an adult, regardless of genre. I think a good example is how sexuality is portrayed, where shounen often shows it as something desirable but tabboo and mysterious, seinen won't shy away from outright showing sex since it's such a regular part of adult life. Character arcs in seinen are often coming of age stories whilst seinen character arcs often more exisitential, akin to the experience a young adult goes through. An argument can be made that younger/older audience demographics are formed by the perspectives of it's protagonists and the fundamental ideas portrayed within the narrative. Yes you can easily make a categorization based on which magazine it was published in but, I think if you broke down the age demographics of each manga/anime you'll see a much more accurate result on whether it falls within seinen or shounen.
Gear 5 + one piece art, animation ,and storytelling keeps getting better every episode, and new berserk adaptation
Thanks dude, I really needed that clarification. And in 10 minutes at that.
Regardless if the series is a Shonen or seinen, if it delivers more than what it promised its readers on its introduction it becomes a favourite of my
Dude i don't even watch anime cartoons yet I still sat thru the whole thing. Grats man, you've clearly got something to keep people engaged
8:31 Thanks for the shoutout. I'm from India but I'm more into Manga then Visual Novels.
love the background music. The music you used for the Darth Vader video also slapped
That nike slippers you just showed 5:28 was just criminal bro. The uefa logo is so damn funny i cant 💀😂
Such a helpful explanation!! Thank you!
Beautifully done masked
I'm just here to say "I'm a consumer of media", thank you very much
wow you really looked into this lol im glad that people put this much effort in anime
a lot of the most popular shonen appeal to basically everyone
i watched one piece at 3 and im sure imma gonna be watching it well into my 20s, depending how long it goes on.
Bocchi The Rock is a seinen manga (along with a lot of other cute girls do cute things manga). Funny thing is one of the dudes from the Trash Taste podcast went to a Bocchi The Rock themed cafe in Japan and majority of the people there were adult men in suits, reflecting the manga's target demographic. Ironically he also said that when he went to a Berserk themed cafe it was majority girls lol.
I mean, one of Miura big inspiration was Rose of Versailles and he literally created certain characters for female appeal so it is not surprising.
Personally, I’m more into shonen, as I find that’s often what attracts me the most. I’ve noticed how most of my favorites list compose of shonen. However, seinen definitely surpasses most shonen manga, and its chock full of the best manga/anime I’ve read like Berserk, Vagabond, Vinland Saga, Punpun, Monster, Pluto, Jojo’s, Holyland, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun (I’m pretty sure it’s a seinen), but even shonen has some of the best imo like GTO, Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk, D. Gray-Man, One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, Yu Yu Hakusho, Mob Psycho, Bleach, etc.
Honestly, it’s an annoying comparison. They each have strengths and flaws, but they’re each enjoyable in their own way. Just have fun reading and watching what you like.
Aot??
@@Hmm-x5ttrust me the list would’ve gone on and on and Attack on Titan would’ve been there 👍
naruto?
@@N-Khal same thing I told the other dude, would’ve shown up had I kept going a little more
JoJo's is for the most part shōnen
Those categorizations are demographic terms, but they are categorizations of MAGAZINES too. Japan have, or have had, a prominent magazine/publisher-dominated culture. Certain manga magazine cultivates certain kind of content, just like Japanese literary magazines share new award-winners like sharing a gold mine. So when we talk about Shonen, Shojo, Seinen and Josei, we're talking about the field magazines operate.
The weekly-magazine-reading habitus is really not like how we read manga online these days.
And I think, aesthetically speaking, Shonen "field" is the most balanced one.
Shojo is largely pattern and repeat, and Seinen and Josei are very creative and largely don't follow tropes. Shonen has the creativity and patterned tropes. That's part of why wide anime media is dominated by Shonen.
The other part is selling point. The selling point of Shojo is the character design. Seinen and Josei are closer to traditional storytelling than the others. But Shonen? Shonen's selling point is hype. So when it comes down to marketing, Shojo are consumed by audience and that's probably the end of it, unless you're counting BL. Seinen and Josei are as hard (or easy) as traditional literature to sell, and not everyone is Shakespeare.
And when someone fucked up their story? Normies might say it's author's fault, but otakus often say it's editors' fault: we can talk about and compare these fields, because they are actual process of making manga media, editors have weekly meeting discussing which or what kind of manga would be published. Editors only have two jobs: make authors' stories become good (selling) stories, and make them serialized non-stop (unless you're Oda and you're making One Piece, then you should really stop the serialization sometime soon). So when a certain kind of magazines produce a certain kind of stories? That's publishers' manipulation showing up. That's the production of "genre".
I guess it might be too hard for someone who don't read manga magazines to understand this, but it's true. Or at the very least, it's true for Japanese and Taiwanese readers.
So, Elitist vs Power scalers competing to see who’s the most annoying to deal with. They’re demographics and within said demographics there exists a variety of works of varying quality.
I wasn't expecting a shoutout to india in a " Truth About shounen vs seinen" but nice
“They are both good” -🗿
1:31 that "YAOI" came out of nowhere 😂
is yaoi mean hent-???
Delinquent Manga Reccomendation:
Crows, Worst, Out, Clover, Rokudenashi Blues, Kyou kara ore wa, Sun Ken Rock, GTO, A-bout, Change Guy, QP, Drop, Bouncer, Sugarless etc
Great vid bro.😺
very random Indian S/O but we do appreciate it. much love man❤
Thank U for this one, helped a lot, for I did know this difference, I just didn't know how to phrase them properly ;)
The reason why ppl confuse shounen and Seinen is because the most popular shounen manga in the West is from shounen jump, which mainly mainly makes action comedy series. Which is why when shounen jump produces works outside said genre like death note, promised neverland, and chainsaw man they are seen as “unusual” for shounen manga. Same with other shounen manga like attack on titan which is published in Shōnen magazine who normally publishes more diverse works like sports, romance, comedy, and thriller on top of action
Omg thanks bro u literally said everything i had in my mind i remember seeing some people refuses to believe that its demographic 😅
subscribed appreciate u breakin it down mad knowledgeable
What your favorite movie genre?
Me : PG-13 movies
😮
You literally changed my perspective dude, even tho I've never been an elitist and I enjoyed both shonen-seinen anime, it's not that I prefer seinen, it's just that seinen tend to have themes of my interest more.
5 stars for pairing the best example of a seinen with the best example of a shonen in your thumbnail.
My favorite seinin and shonen in the same thumbnail nice
Low key I thought it was Gintama 😅😂
@@NinthShinigami haha I love me some gintama and gintoki is one of my favorite MCs but berserk and one piece are my goats
i love the your name footage in the background
I look at how entertaining the seires is regardless of the good writing or category the series belong.
That is why for me series like One Punch Man and Prison School is up there with PunPun and berserk as they all achieve greatness in their category and are great medium of entertainment
finally i found the truth about shonen and seinen i finally can rest in peace now
I've been saying the same thing for YEARS about In N Out vs Whataburger. The two literally have nothing in common. In N Out is a classic burger joint with a simplistic menu that does a very good job at one thing. Whataburger has a large complex menu with new/seasonal menu items with an overall goal of competing as a modern-day fast-food restaurant.
I swear every time I say to someone "I love In N Out" they almost always say "I prefer Whataburger" or "Which do you like better? Whata or In N Out?" To which I say, "I PREFER RED LOBSTER TO IN N OUT BUT WE"RE TALKING ABOUT OLD FASHIONED BURGER CHAINS"
Thanks for the video Masked, I'm glad to know I'm not alone in my plight.
I thought this was a really good and well thought out video
cheeseburgers and hamburgers work well with fries
I think a part of it is that at least when it comes to things like specifically battle shounen, they tend to share tropes and conventions, so people end looking at it as a genre cuz it kinda ends up feeling like one. I even remember one guy saying something along the lines of "shonen is a demographic; battle shonen is a genre" which is certainly an interesting take. You also end up with terms like "battle shonen adjacent" for none battle series that end up feeling very similar to battle shonen like Food Wars or Dr. Stone.
To add to the point of the video, UQ Holder is a shonen and has 3 full blown sex scenes within the span of like 5-7 chapters. Tsugumomo is a seinen that's straight-up softcore hentai, but otherwise feels like a typical battle shonen. Then there's Bungo Stray Dogs, which is the most battle shonen ass seinen I've ever seen.
What about shōnen like Death Note then? Or, hell, Dr Slump
@@samueloak1600 What about them? Never seen Dr, Slump, so I have 0 opinions on that. Death Note however, I remember EyepatchWolf and pthers saying something about it like "non battle-battle manga", so essentially, I guess that'd be battle shonen adjacent too. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean. That Death Note feels like a seinen? I guess, but I was just naming a few noteworthy (and extreme) examples off the top of my head.
@@s3studios597 oh nah, Death Note doesn't really feel like a seinen imo, I just meant that many shōnen series deviate a lot in tone from the standard typically associated with the "genre", even if they are about confrontation like Death Note
I think that the problem is that they shouldn’t be called “battle Shonen” but should be called “battle manga”.
@@thomasffrench3639 well, then Berserk for example would be part of it too, let alone Vagabond or Vinland Saga
"We, as people, tend to see little, and tend to say and think much."
~The Masked Man, 2023
--
what a line
fun fact eizouken and akebi's sailor uniform are both seinen
I'll always remember the reaction of my friend when I told her that Kaguya sama and My Dress up Darling were a seinen and other anime and manga like Banana Fish, Claymore, Devilman, etc. wasn't
The fandoms that compete or argue over whether Shounen or Seinen is better is why I do not converse with others often, you ruin discussions or communities because of childish bickering. Then there are Seinen readers like Berserk that make their fandom insufferable to interact with. I enjoy both manga genres but shift more toward Shounen.
They're not--
did you even watch the video?
It never comes to my mind if it's Senin or Shonen when reading the manga or watching the anime. It's just about the quality and genre i want to enjoy at the time.
My favorites type of manga are mostly original/dark shonens (hxh, Aot, CSM, JJk...) And dark and psychological seinen (berserk, gantz, Oyasumi punpun, Takopii no genzai...) But I'll never look down on ppl who like classic shonen, Josei, shojos, It's called taste
We need more people like you in the anime community.
I hate how most seinen fanboys are hypocrites, they act like a character being a good guy is boring and trash but when thorfinn does it its peak fiction? Get outta here
Lmao kinda true tbf
Edit: however Thorfinn deserves it. Well for mostly Farm Arc. His execution is well done. The themes of pacifism are well done here. Until he needs 100 punches or stops a duel because a girl hits his Thorkell away. The themes get cheesed there
Shonen fans just as hypocritical tbh.
I don't think that comparing different genres and titles is a bad thing at all. In the same way, comparing different players with different styles in football can give you a different perspective of the way the game is played, comparing how different authors approach the same topic in different ways can give you different perspectives on the same problem without actually taking away the credit these authors deserve in the first place.
Yes, but the whole point of the video was that seinen and shonen are not genres
Hard agree
He isn't saying comparing different genres and titles is wrong. If you actually paid attention you would realise Shonen and Seinen aren't genres.
@@rakhatthenut3815No, Seinen and shonen explore the same subject for different ages which still makes my comment valid taking into account that they would explore the topic with distinct approaches.
The obvious must be said again and again,as new people enter this hobby of watching anime.
Don't feel frustrated,is just what happens as new people come in,it just means the fandom is getting bigger.
I just hate these terms so much. When people are talking about “Shonen” when they are literally just referring to battle manga. And when they are referring to Seinen they think historical fiction and dark fantasy. We should stop using these terms to categorize manga. Not to mention that a lot of Seinen get categorized in that demographic because it uses more complex symbols that only adults can read.
5am bangers
My personal favorites are scattered all over places. There are shonen, seinen and shojo (haven't found something in josei yet, but it's only a matter of time). I love something when it's well done. The intended demographic doesn't really matter.
I often stick in the shounen demographic mainly because that's what is readily available to me. I'm a casual of casuals, and I don't necessarily have the time to delve into the annals of manga to find enjoyable stories. But I have explored a few Seinen. Mostly, I'm a meat head (blame it on DBZ), so if fists are flying or weaponry is involved, I'll probably enjoy it.
Yeah, I used to have the misconception of Shonen, Seinen, etc. being a genre rather than a target demographic because of how the term is being used as if it were a genre, but now I understand it's just that a large portion of Shonen and Seinen have similar themes or story structures that some classify it as a shounen/seinen genre, making it confusing to others.
Now that I think about it, most of my favorite anime/manga are shounen. Gintama, Hunter X Hunter, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Jojo's Bizarre adventure, Death Note, Slam Dunk, Hajime no Ippo, Dragon Ball, Cromartie High School, One Piece, Mob Psycho, Detective Conan, School Rumble, Bleach, Nurarihyon no Mago, D-Grey Man, Yu Yu Hakusho, Naruto, Jujutsu Kaisen, Frieren, Great Teacher Onizuka, Kyou Kara Ore Wa, Rookies, Crows, Claymore, My Hero Academia, Angel Densetsu, Fist of the North Star, Rokudenashi Blues, etc.
Fans: Shounen or Seinen
Aot: Imma be both
Thank u for shout out😂
This video is 90% redundant. It could be summed up by saying people who “like seinen” instead like themes more often appreciated by a seinen or mature male audience and conversely for shonen. I guess he need video length for add revenue, I respect it.
Found the Seinen elitist.
Im convinced that shonen and seinen are just the name of the magazines.
I’ve always looked at the target audience part of the Manga and anime classifications as something very weird and not always lining up with the actual audience or even who’s being targeted. Claymore is an example of a well known seinen manga that ran weekly in shonen jump while K-on doesn’t strike anyone as seinen and is classified as such because that’s simply the magazine that it ran in. I always tend to at least attempt to divide what I read and watch by what kind of subject matter it covers and make that my dividing line between seinen, shonen, shojo, and josei. It makes for a better system to me because the darker and more mature the subject matter like Claymore, Dark Gathering, Frieren, and even JJK tend to make for better classification in seinen than shonen. Then again that’s all just me
still dont get why shonen and seinen fans constantly argue with it each, cuz u dont really see shoujo and josei fans doing that and they tend to like both
Please never say the words "slice of life comedy" with Punpun in the background lmaooooo
Berserk fans need to see this video
and Musashi fans as well
8:30 interesting , never watched/read any vn yet , the only vn adaptation i watched was steins gate's anime , so this was quite a fun fact
I won’t lie I prefer seinen since the best mangas I’ve read have all been in seinen. But it’s just preference that’s it just enjoy what you like
read one piece
@@xandex69 one piece is great but I’ve read plenty of seinen manga that are objectively better
@@angelgomez7081 Yeah like what. cant think of any except berserk which in honesty is because of art
@@xandex69 berserk, vagabond, real, goodnight punpun, the climber, monster, 20th century boys, innocent rouge.
@@angelgomez7081 I watched monster so i know its not better and neither is berserk if we ignore art so 🧢 🧢 🧢 🧢
It’s really a pointless argument that has more to do with personal taste than objective quality, you can even find manga that would be considered Seinen being released by Shonen Jump anyway, so arguing about which is better is a waste of time.
yeah its just unfortunate that most people don't even try to branch out to new genres and demographics in the first place and a majority of the community just talk about the same anime over and over again
Yoo shout out to my people from my favourite youtuber, appreciate it bro.
THIS VIDEO IS NICE :)
Hey, can you do a video about Golden Kamuy? It's pretty underrated and it'll be interesting to make a deep dive into this manga.
8:23 i could’ve sworn you used to said consumer of media a lot in your older vids … masked is a pa-jeet 😱
Hey , im from india and i was watching you since long time ago
7:48 Ahh yes my fav slice of life and comedy manga "oyasumi punpun". Read it with family to cure your depression very wholesome 10/10
Well, My Favorite Mangas are literally the combination of Shonen and Seinen
My Top 15 rn
15. Baki Series
14. Tekken Chinmi
13. Gamaran
12. Clover
11. Bleach
10. Hajime no Ippo
9. Toriko
8. Attack on Titan
7. Naruto
6. Magi+Sinbad
5. Vagabond
4. Crows+Worst series
3. 20th+21st Century Boys
2. One Piece
1. Berserk and Kingdom
Tekken Chinmi rules
W
But no Shoujo or Josei
I'm sure this might be a good video but you Mispronounced *Doraemon* as "Dora Mon" at 3:05
Very informative to a manga newb like me. Thanks.
I think it has to do with the language barrier, people think shonen means action and seinen means graphic content when they are not that exactly
Masked Man Ik you’ve made a video about Naruto twice, but plz do a video of Naruto main theme, I’ve seen nobody make video about it, it’s not the cycle of pain, but a WORLD THAT CANT ESCAPE FATE, trust me once u see Naruto in this way it’s everywhere
7:52 no way you put oyasumi punpun when talking about "slice of life comedy" 💀💀💀