ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- The common saying among welders is "If there's slag, drag", meaning if the process produces a slag layer you drag (or pull) the electrode. However, when it comes to MIG welding, there is a great deal of debate whether it is better to push or pull the puddle.
Some say that you should push, because it will give you better gas coverage (my personal preference), while other says you should drag, because it provides deeper weld penetration.
In this episode of MIG Monday, we are using a Bug-O Systems GO-FER IV to weld the same plate with both a push and pull technique with all variables the same. After the welding, we will cut and etch the plate to see which provides the best results.
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thanks, Paul...enjoy the "no BS" approach to learning.
Thanks! Your videos are helping me with a car restoration I'm working on. You make a difference!
It's nice to see videos like this. I'm new to MIG and hate when someone tells me that I'm doing it wrong because it is not exactly how they do it. This video dispels the push technique as the "right" way to MIG. From what I've learned from watching these videos is what I really need to do is practice, practice, practice! My technique is getting better but I need gun time. My biggest issue is inconsistent gun speed.
Thank you very much for this no-nonsence video.
A very interesting test and I liked that you used the automated welding unit to remove the operator variable.
I'm just starting out learning how to weld mig with my everlast welder. This was a great video.
Quite an interesting set of results. Not at all what I was expecting.
Great work clear and easy to understand and straight to the point best wedding show on the net from AUSTRALIA.
sometimes i pull sometimes i push... it depends on how well i can see the puddle, if i cannot see the puddle i weld like crap no matter what way the stick or wire is going.
Paul I love your videos. As a hobby welder who started welding flux core, I'm more comfortable dragging the torch. So now that I've added gas to my machine I don't have to worry too much about lack of penetration when I drag while mig welding. I never weld anything over 3/16" so it probably doesn't matter anyway.
Another very interesting point that this test was set at a constant speed of the wand. So I can see where there would be a difference between the push or the drag method if the speed is not constant. Any way that you accomplish the task, consistency is the key. The right speed and maintaining the correct angle. All works together. Bottom line, practice, practice and the ability to adapt to the welding environment that you are in at the time.
How refreshing to see a more automated test rather than user ability. Thankyou.
MIG is very forgiving I find and it pretty well works whatever you have to do to get the weld done. I like it for that very reason, push perhaps gives a more pleasing look but not by much.
I learned a lot from this. I've always dragged when using flux core in my Everlast welder and pushed when MIG
You still drag with flux cure. MIG can be pushed or pulled, but flux core will give you really poor results if you push. Pulling with flux forces all the trash behind the puddle where it becomes slag. If you push your wire then it's all getting forced to the front and then out to the toes.
I agree that if protection of the cooling puddle is critical then the pull method would be the obvious choice.
A lot depends on the type of welding too, eg. short circuit, globular, or spray arc, I work for caterpillar I the facility where they build the large mining equipment, some of the largest in the world and we are tough to drag stringers because through testing over the many years this method has shown to get the best fusion and penetration
Great video! Very interesting seeing the automated welds instead of just trusting the welder is making the exact same weld.
Push is good. Out in the field my arms got so tired. The longer your arms are extended they will get fatigued. Pulling allowed me to continuously weld as your arms are going towards you making the electrode less heavy.
I really enjoyed this video because I’ve always knew it was more of a preference than the actual penetration. I prefer push if it doesn’t leave a slag. Overall it’ll give the gas coverage needed which in automation is harder to achieve. But thanks.
Without a doubt the problems with my welding are because i dont have one of those Bug O System welders! great stuff. *Subscribed*
Great video! Thank you! I worked on the GO-FER IV development. Nice to see it in action!
Leerrijke video, spijtig dat wij dat hier in Belgium niet kunnen.
you are NO1 PAUL THANKS
Great videos - nice to see there isn't really a right way or a wrong way!
Thanks for the video. I am trying to teach myself to weld at home and have no idea what I am actually doing or why I am doing it so this info. is very valuable. Some guys at work get really fussy about these things. Now I can tell them to relax..
I was taught "if it has slag, drag"...learning on fcaw, dragging seems more natural and easier to see...but I just started using gas, so I'd like to learn the push technique...thanks for the video!
Yes sir i agree with push welding. When i started mig welded i played around with different options and push welding is the best for our application. I weld heavy Equipment Implements, dozer rakes, trachoe & backhoe thumbs, and grapples for skidsteers. The teeth on the dozer rakes can get up to 2.5" thick and i have to run high heat with compensated wire speed to get very good penetration. Using a Miller 350P im running 29.3/530 with push technic for hours on end.
Really like Paul, great teacher.
Thanks for making this video. I was thinking about this last week.
mig/mag
is all about heat! any weld under 4m wire a minut is always dirty. voltage/wire ratio is very narrow. So good ratio and enough heat you are golden. always listen when wire welding :) and about slag. the cleanest weld is done by push. I have proved that many times by xray/ultra sound. the key is always keep ahead of the slag. (small strings) but the safest is dragging you burn the slag and the pores are smaller than alloved.
Good advice. I'll will certainly try to remember those points when I'm practicing welding with my everlast welder.
I always felt the push to be easier to see the weld pool so that you have better control over penetration.
But when using a automated welding machine I found that spray arc transfer gave much better result.
While the pull set up the gave a slightly higher weld profile and the risk of not passing inspection was greatly increased.
When you are welding a very tight corner 20 degrees I always use a pulling technique and an extremely long wire stick out to get into the tight corner. My ampere is set slightly higher leaning towards a spray transfer.
Thank you sir,, i love this old man.. Much respect
Your not that old Paul, compared to me! Love your ear ring. Old guys rule!
Usually with FCAW Dual Shield, you do a drag on the root passes. Let's say that there was a multi-pass Filet weld. For a 1/2" filet weld using 1/16" wire it should usually take 3 passes. 1st pass: Drag, 2nd pass: push, and 3rd pass: Drag... I usually push the 2nd pass because I want it to stay flat. Some times the 2nd pass can roll on you in a drag and QC's don't like that.
Thank you very much for the explanations , quite very interesting
Late to the party, however really enjoy the presentation. Disregard the h8ters, you rock.
Very nice test!
good to know !
The only problem with pushing it becomes convex looks nice but lack of throat stacking both ways is best is best.on the full pens I usually start the 1st pass dragging pushing can be a problem with slag inclusion
Good video no bs easy to grasp.
Great Video Sir !
This was soooo helpful
I've always believed the drag would blow debri back in to the weld. To me its about like someone welding down hill with a stick because they dont know how to weld uphill. I have always used push and never failed a single weld test
excellent video. thanks for taking the time!
Very fair, great to see the results :)
Great video
I can see what I’m doing better with the pull technique, especially on lap welds.
I am the same. I can't see behind the nozzle when I push.
My method is probably 100% wrong though.
I pull my weld just because for me it's easier to see and keep my tip from moving around because I'm not hitting the weld bead as I go.
I should try this with my everlast welder. I think it is pretty forgiving but I guess you really don't know until you test it out.
I was wondering if you weld 2 bars 90° what would be the better, stretch breaktest would be nice also, my money is on the push. ...goedendag
From what I've seen and learned both is okay if done right. The pull method has a bit better a especially a more guaranteed penetration, but also a bigger heat input and a bigger weld. Pushing on the other side creates a smoother weld and also has a good penetration, but it's risky if you don't know what to look for bcs if you're to slow the molten puddle can flow infront of your arc and reduce the penetration.
great video except the severe angle had 2x more wire sick-out so its not exactly a fair comparison.
Well the test is good. But I'd like to see a real welding like a corner joint or butt weld. Welding on a flat plate doesn't really proof anything in my opinion.
And as others comment, preparation before welding, clean the nozzle etc is key to a good long lasting weld.
It is all about physics when welding. There is no cutting corners when melting metal and getting the alloys to combine.
Have a nice day.
You could be on to something. Although I think this is a better direction in the battle than most. I dont think it proves nothing. I think it's a starting point. Short circuit mig in all positions, on plate and fillet. That might satisfy everyone doing short circuit. Maybe add pipe in there too. Eventually someone might have a series that covers those bases. But then there's flux core (dual shield and self shielded), globular, spray, and pulse. Who is going to keep their audience doing all that? Also, who has equipment to take the human factor out of it all?
Very interesting. Thanks.
Thank you Sir. Very instructive video!
Excellent video. Thanks!!
What chemicals did you use for etching the samples?
Well done Sir! Well done!
I was taught by the best welder in our company that going with gravity is easier and more comfortable. I prefer it that way and can get a better weld but it just really depends I guess.
What about no torch angle?
are we talking perfect 90 on both the X and Y axis? if so, then they would be the exact same
awesome!! thank you very much!!!
Great learning tool, thanks for the info.
This debate will never be "settled", fact is much of the success or failure as with any weld is good preparation and technique but how accessible the weld position is along with heat, weld travel speed gas variations/mixes and other job variables.
I built SS airplane deicer coils for a while, to get the best bare wire mig weld on the coils we ended up with a tri-gas mix to do the job on the material, this same setup on another application could have been worthless at best.
There's the ideal conditions and the real world, welding is continuous adaptation.
thanx a lot
if there's slag you drag.
mostly, till you can't.
what happened to your finger(s) in your profile pic?
theomnipresent1 not mine, some other lucky fellow.
Degloved with a lathe.
grumpybill ouch!
theomnipresent1 he was more, shall we say, colorful with his response.
I'm no expert at all, but I would guess that pointing the gas flow at the hottest part of the weld (drag) would keep the shield over it a bit longer and give you a better finish, less oxidised maybe? Sort of like post-flow for TIG
Waiting your next episode...thank u
Top video.made it all clear.👍
Love your videos!
I thought you should point the torch toward the cooling weld bead, so the gas "covers" it. Drag/ pull.
Why would you point the gas toward where you haven't even welded yet? Push.
If Gas coverage is important, you would think that the pull technique would give you longer gas coverage of the weld. Since technique is so important, its nice to see a few compared.
+Brent Burzycki
Too logical... ;)
+patw52pb1 yeh, that pretty much sums me up :)
I was worried due to tip gummed up. Was worried about perosity.
Cool!
somtimes you have to go both directions period...
+Jon A
Yep, and sometimes the angle is less than best, but the job gets done.
thank you
Thank you for your Video
On my welder (Firepower 140 MST), if I use a more severe slanted angle, it sounds different; the arc isn't as stable...
it is funny how worked up people get over push or pull if you want enough you find yourself having to do both breaking all sorts of rules things still stick together with a enough practice and skills what's funny to me is most the time it's people that are doing repairs and light fabrication on non-critical things professional tend not to get so worked up
Very cool
Interesting video. Thanks. May I ask what did you use for etching? I would like to do some tests on my weld as well.
Thank you for your help.
+Roma Maastricht Here is a site that can provide profession etching solutions for just about anything you are trying to test: etchantstore.com/Weld-Inspection-Etchants_c11.htm
Vinegar works also. Takes just a couple Minutes
Weld straight in with mig when ever you can
good info thanks
Awesome vid
Thanks Dad !
thanks sir
What gas were you using?
I like doing the pull technique better but i can't see the end part of what i am welding and i end up over welding 😮
What do you use to etche the samples?
A lot more HAZ (heat affected zone) with the extreme angle. Other than that they all look similar.
I think push or pull really only matters when your moving chains.
It matters more in sex. If I have a partner, I push. If not, then I have pull it.
I always push you can see where your going better but I drag when I have to fill big gaps by your tests either way there is farrrk all difference
Muito bom amigo...
I think you can see the difference in 3G position..going downhill will make lack of fusion i believe.
nice video thx :)
real welders know that process an application matter
👍👍👍
Maybe Push would be better for thin material and pull for thicker material.
Pull when u goin hot so the nozzle doesn't get stuck as easy
What is spool drag my friends..... In a Mig class doing homework help......
Why the automated machine? Is it that hard to lay a weld?
No two humans are the same, so comparing a computer to a human will never be an "apple to apple" comparison
clean out that nozzle....surprised any gas was even flowing !
You went to fast for the 3rd weld, you need to go slow to make up for the bad angle
Awesome vid. You just taught me that its not rocket science just pick the fing gun up n weld. Lol. Don't science fuk it.