Additional Kyoshin things you might be interested in: - All Feat Options: i.imgur.com/AVWRj89.jpg - Lord Dem's Lesser Known Tech Video - Kyoshin Edition: th-cam.com/video/OPUSZwNrVaE/w-d-xo.html - Barak's Kyoshin Pro Tips Video: - Marco's How to Kyoshin Video: th-cam.com/video/PirBVCenPTc/w-d-xo.html
Personally I agree but I also disagree I think that so long as he gets guaranteed hits after his bashes they should be very punishable if you miss and very easy to Miss because I think black prior and other Heroes with a bashed into a guaranteed hit either need a lot more punishment on the if they Miss where is hard to actually hit the Bash but if you do hit it then you not only get a guaranteed hit but that hit acts as a chain starter because in my mind guaranteed hits should not play into skill games like for Honor because they make it so it doesn't matter how good you are or how skilled he may be at the game because if they hit single bash then you will take damage.
What I’m happy about is that this hero is at least well designed concept-wise, which means he can be tweaked relatively easily, we are not in Jorm situation here, I’m pretty sure devs will consider buffing the dude, after all there is room to improve Kiyoshin without breaking him.
@@SapphireRose363 i love the hero too, wish i could play him tho, i have this weird bug where i can't actually play him even though i've bought him, hope this gets fixed soon.
They love gank meta I mean they nerfed revenge into the ground what makes you think they are gonna allow a anti gank hero? People want easy ganks and easy kills
@@doomfishmain5154 this is it right here. You are right! ✅ They are catering to the casual player. Just like ever other company. They don't reward skill. They reward "FUN". 😒🤦🏿
I feel like he definitely needs some stamina and damage tweaks too. Getting less damage on the full block is weird especially since it costs the kyoshin so much stam to punish anything and the fast flow doesn't look as strong as aramushas.
It’s what I was saying on the Dev stream. Too much stamina for such little damage. His normal chains are better than his downstance damage. I get it’s for defense but ara has it too with decent damage and better follow ups. Much better angles and hitbox too.
My guess is that it's because of his feats in 4s. Remember that a superior block will triger his Tier 1 that inflicts bleed. if the base damage is high then the t1 would probably be a bit too strong. Not a fan of this way of balancing tbh
@@UnPokemon they can just nerf the feat in the case. I rather have a hero with average or wack feats than be this bad. I’ll sacrifice all his feats. And his 4th is so easy to dodge! Holy shit people where crying about it!
I don't feel like I costs too much stamina, and the stance does 20 to 25dmg. 20 dmg for a light is good. I agree tho that his unblockable could be turned up to 30 (20+1+1+8)
Yeah but that only applies to raiders light -> zone combo. At least his heavies have armor (that ubi is taking away). Zhanhu... I don’t play him because I think he’s boring but I know he has the same problem too. Don’t know how ubi could fix his tho
I feel like, after Gryphon, Ubi was so scared of releasing another OP hero that they just didn't give Kyoshin anything but style. Hopefully he gets at least a small buff so that he can at least compete, because he LOOKS cool and nimble, but feels incredibly clunky and slow to use
@@miyamotomusashi527 and who's going to make me? You? That's a laugh, even from a clown like you. Gryphon was NEVER OP, NEVER BUSTED, and NEVER BROKEN! Salt-Lords like you, that got him nerfed, are the problem, not people whom ACTUALLY played him, and saw all of Gryphon's fallacies! Don't get pissed off at me, because you couldn't handle that he could consistently punish you, for making the wrong Read, numb-nuts!
Weeb black prior except instead of a cook flip move he gets the super common move of being a disappointment. I've suffered more for good fashion though, so time to rep him up
He’s actually pretty easy to fight if you don’t try dodge everything. I just wish his all guard ability animation started sooner. Feels like I’m getting combo’d on parry timing
He’s all I see now. Ofc when anything new comes out people have to spam it so much that you don’t wanna get in that wagon. Conq, cent and black prior can take him pretty easy especially if the kyoshin you’re fighting is dodge happy. He’s an okay hero but I don’t think he’s as hyped as they made him and as players are making him seen. Gryphon on release was better than this character
@@thesaltyterminator101 true but most people play on release just to learn the character so they know his weaknesses then after a month it usually dies back down and only the people that actually wanna main him still play him.
Hey zhan hu was highly anticipated but ended up not working but hey look at him now so if they can makr him good they can surely make kyoshin good as well
I mean it's not like the end of the world. His base moveset and concept is good, the problems are just couple numbers that can be fixed through tweaking in the future
You said exactly what I said. He reminds me exactly like Zanhu release. He was fun for a few days then it’s become obvious that his mechanics are mostly for show and in order to be viable he’ll need a certain significant buff
They played it safe with him like aramusha and zhanhu he can only go up from here i only hope they dont take long to let him reach his potential as it did for them
It possibly might be because he can chain to bash after a h3avy. With short chain recoveries a heavy into bash might have been guarenteed. Not sure though
@@marktilton7964 well gryphon and hito has confirmed heavys on bashes why cant he? I just dont understand how from a balance perspective some heroes gets a free heavy after a lvl 1 bash
Oh man it was my initial thought at the reveal that he'd be like zhanhu on release, then after watching the whole thing I thought he would be a needlessly difficult hero like shaolin. Now after this he looks like both. He needs so much work just for his potential to be on par with his difficult. They really need to just need to hand you a hero well before its release.
He's really only intimidating, because he has Chains and Options, with a stricter Kit than Shnobs. However, to Master Kyoshin, it will take a long time.
I agree but viabilty and functionality are two different things. A character can function but still be not viable ( like Orochi was for a long time for example ). Kyoshin has a lot of functionality issues for different numbers and hitboxes so his kit doesnt work properly even if used in the correct situations. I also dont need a character I like to be viable but I want his kit to at least function properly.
Leave it to Freeze for the detailed analyses. I was waiting for this. Thanks a bunch mate! Great video! Tell you the truth, he does feel very difficult to play in 4v4
I swear Freeze, you're the only person who is not afraid to talk about issues with characters. I just done my first rep on kyoshin and oh my god was it a bad experience. inputs all over the place, people have enough time to light me in between light heavy combo, there's so much more...
Campaign animations, Zhanhu's finisher heavies, Orochi's dodges. Weird that Ubisoft spoke so highly of Kyoshin's animations considering he reuses them more than Warmonger.
Freeze, I just want to say, your knowledge and analysis is so greatly appreciated. I don't think I speak for myself when I say that your videos are educational and can give someone a leg up on the competition. I've watched so many of your videos and they've made me a better player. From the bottom of my heart, thank you. 🙏
@@Wraith_of_Storm not true. I'm in a FH group on FB and half the people don't watch Freeze. But nice try on trying to take the value away from my comment. 👍
Great and badass in depth video. I hope Ubi listens to you on this to make him a lil better. Seriously those hitboxes you showcased are horrendous indeed
Unpopular opinion: I almost never buy new heroes on release and usually wait to use silver and this is one of the few i might end up having on release and yet i still think its better for him to release underpowered and the get the slight buffs Freeze talked about... Even if hes bad i will probably do well on him since nobody knows how to fight him and that will not hurt the player base since not many people (i hope) will immediately get angry at the character cus someone lighted them twice while using kyoshin.
Not sure if you've noticed this in your testing or even mentioned it in the video, but since his down-stance light (and maybe zone?) has no gb vulnerability, he can light from down-stance on reaction to not only feint to gb but even gb sotf-feint. Which just makes certain mixups (like rider's heavy/storming tap/gb soft-feint) useless.
It might've been bot fuckery, but it's important to note that Kyoshin gets a Kaze stance heavy to Fujin cuts from a light parry (set bot to parry/block, so if this is just AI being dumb please correct me). Meaning you can set up ganks from a light parry. Haven't made it to the end of the video so maybe you address it. Glad to know I'm not a child haha
Wait you can parry the Fujin Force even after it superior blocks something? So you’re potentially getting punished for using a supposed anti gank tool? Makes sense to me!
What I haven't seen being mentioned anywhere: against 2 or more opponents, the Kaze stance stops working/ stops working properly. What I mean, unlike a FBS with any other hero, if you block a heavy, for a very short period of time, the animation is still there, but you can be hit, it's like it has to "spin up" again. Experienced this against bots numerous occasions. Haven't seen anywhere being mentioned that his FBS/Kaze stance is limited not just by stamina but by numbr of hits (or something similar) as well...
Long pauses between attacks are actually good, since he has tools to deal with that, he can just quickly enter full block. In fact it's wierd that other characters that can cancel into full block have quick combo attacks.
Better a Hero that needs to be buffed, than a Hero who needs to be nerfed. at least no one will shout that the kyoshin is broken or too easy like gryphon.
6:14 why are these numbers so high? Please give a valid justification for why BP’s chain bash is safe even against a lot of dodge attacks. Kiyoshin’s I think is just fine being unsafe to be honest, especially as it promotes wanting to dodge more in hopes of getting the punish
I'm personally okay with the base stance attacks having so much stamina cost considering the stance light is essentially a 22 damage light attack from neutral including the fujin cuts, and the stance zone has similar stamina drain to a regular zone including all the fujin cuts. The unblockable is the one where the stamina drain seems slightly execessive; id prefer if it didnt chain into fujin cuts and just did 25 base damage, and could only chain into fujin force (although it would be less cool). Then it would be more useful as a finisher attack. The counter versions are a different story, but if the same changes were made to the counter stance heavy, so it did 20 base damage and no fujin cuts, then I think it would be less annoying to use.
The fact that there is a full Reddit called: "For Honor Complaints" says something about the community. I wouldn't mind the bashes being unpunishable, hell, I don't mind if Kyoshin becomes the second Black Prior - It's just another challenge to overcome, but some don't like challenges after all...
Honestly I've been thinking the same just because I have been fighting them. Like, normally people just pick up the character and kick ass the first few days (while everyone else figures out how to combat them) and ubi inevitably debuffs them afterwords. But this new hero seems lacking compared to most launches, but maybe in reality that means that he is one of the more balanced new heroes that they have launched recently.
I found that if your opponent is unlocked/standing still, and if for some reason you decided to throw a light attack at them the scabbard bash will whiff
Honestly the cons only attract me to this character more. Kyoshin requires mastery and isn’t overpowered from the start. They require fixes yes, but once the main problems have been solved (mainly external hit-boxes) I believe this will be one of the more balanced characters. As you said the kit is there, he just needs some fine-tuning. Characters that require more knowledge to use effectively are just appealing to me. I will use this knowledge you have provided to master this character to the best of my abilities.
Thank you Freeze. A younger generation with an attention span of 9 minutes (probably a generous number) is far more concerning than the glaring issues with this hero.
I'm happy he's not extremely overpowered, as every single dlc character on early access has been and the Wu Lin still are. Still, you can tell from miles away his design was intended for PC play, but that don't mean he's not fun to play with, against and along on console
Maybe he should get frame advantage after landing guaranteed light finisher after a bash. That would make up for punishable mid-chain bash and i'm ok with that, he doesn't need to be an unpunishable poosy like BP. Make guaranteed cuts make like 2-3-5 dmg and use less stamina so they would be worth using when cancelling with a heavy. I'd like it to have bigger superior block window. Also fix that weird damage drop in stance follow-ups. 8 dmg light and zone and 10 dmg heavy for whatever reason. Just make all of them do 10. And other things like follow-up after whiffed opener, lowering recoveries that Freeze stated in the video are also should be implemented.
i think they were trying to avoid the backlash that warmonger and gryphon caused so they held back a bit on kyoshin, maybe a bit too much. he will hopefully get buffed soon.
I feel like the 0ms gb vulnerability is the only reason I intentionally enter Kaze stance at all, knowing I wont just be guardbroken out of it immediatly.
@@54ndm4n91 yes and feats are pretty strong but the kit warmonger has isnt broken at all yes feats are strong but only them bps kit is litterally the best ingame almost everything you do is unpunushable when you dont play dumb
Idk if anyone noticed, but Kyoshin heavy finishers are pretty much the same animation as Zhanhus heavy finishers. So its essentially Zhanhu finisher without unblockable. So in other words just slow.
So what really stood out to me was the recoveries, though its hard for me to be too upset, as i dont think ones like BP should be safe in the first place, but chaining out of it is fine. Next was the chain links, though its something thats normally hard to tell unless its super bad, the light to interrupt is not something i want to see in the game in this way at all. Last was the awful hitboxes, just, like when the weapon is swinging through a model, it should hit it, just basic game design stuff.
@@jarettweisgerber1964 you obviously aren’t that bright huh. All i was saying is that people people who were complaining about the new guy really wanted someone they only had to press rb with. Which is what almost every orochi and aramusha did. Now with the rework they are gonna be hurt that triple light spam is gone with him
Just saying Mucha can BB after a wiffed PS. It would be an interesting mixup if Kyoshin could go into a light or full guard after a wiff kick. Fodge attack beats the follow up, but an empty dodge into GB beats full guard.
I think they can't chain after kick because they could CC dodge attacks. If that is the reason than I would just make it a low recovery bash like BP, Warlord and Lawbringer. Edit: I know the could just simply make the light come out at a more delayed timing if wiffed. So they Kyoshin could stuff a GB but can't CC a buffered dodge attack, but I think that would feel bad adding another delay onto Kyo. Just making it a wuick recovery bash would make more sense for a teamfighter/anti-ganker
I have to wonder if the inability to chain on the kick is a product of the backlash Gryphon used to get back when his shove was from neutral. Still the recoveries are dire. The good news is that most of these fixes are a case of numbers with the exception being hit boxes. Thanks for the in depth testing, hero unfamiliarity usually leads to early frustration and compliants but the only thing to be even remotely annoyed at fighting this hero is the prospect of two of them infinitely hitstunning you. Single pick is needed. I get everyone wants to play the new hero at launch, maybe have a two to three week period of any picks but single pick should be the norm and I'll happily die on that hill alongside you and everyone else that sees its necessity.
Whew...was worried he was gonna be bad but at least its like low-tier badness in the form of bad hitboxes and chainlink timings. Similar problem to Jiang Jun at release if I remember correctly. Bit of Buff here and there and he'll probably be solid in 2v2s. Casual Play he's gonna be popular though, I just got a feeling in my guts. I fully expect to run into a lot of Kyoshin's in duels no matter what.
Additional Kyoshin things you might be interested in:
- All Feat Options: i.imgur.com/AVWRj89.jpg
- Lord Dem's Lesser Known Tech Video - Kyoshin Edition: th-cam.com/video/OPUSZwNrVaE/w-d-xo.html
- Barak's Kyoshin Pro Tips Video:
- Marco's How to Kyoshin Video: th-cam.com/video/PirBVCenPTc/w-d-xo.html
When covid is over do you think that warmonger and gryphon will get their only animations?
Thank you Freeze
hear me out their plan is to release him garbage so no one can complain then buff him if they actually thought like this i would give them a cookie
Glad I watcced this before I wasted my money of course For Honor would disappoint
Personally I agree but I also disagree I think that so long as he gets guaranteed hits after his bashes they should be very punishable if you miss and very easy to Miss because I think black prior and other Heroes with a bashed into a guaranteed hit either need a lot more punishment on the if they Miss where is hard to actually hit the Bash but if you do hit it then you not only get a guaranteed hit but that hit acts as a chain starter because in my mind guaranteed hits should not play into skill games like for Honor because they make it so it doesn't matter how good you are or how skilled he may be at the game because if they hit single bash then you will take damage.
Surprisingly the most consistent thing on this hero is that the sheathe doesn’t glitch out his hand when playing. Marvelous.
That is until you shove the sheathe through the opponents face when you GB them
@@spaghettisnake2238 nah that’s not a glitch. Execution got the sheathe flying through armor. 😉
Yea, but when you jump down from ledge, sword glitches out of shearhe
I really respect you not feeding us bullcrap with artificial hype. Never change freeze, you're doing great :D
"The Kyoshin is just hoping it works"
Jokes on you. That's how I just play the game
Since ccu and os parry yep same and I'm 300 reps in
What I’m happy about is that this hero is at least well designed concept-wise, which means he can be tweaked relatively easily, we are not in Jorm situation here, I’m pretty sure devs will consider buffing the dude, after all there is room to improve Kiyoshin without breaking him.
We had the same thing with Zhanhu, and it took them...how long to actually do something with him?
@@iDeathSparky 2 😃 years 😞
They won't like the other guy said it took forever for them to give Zhanhu what he should've had on release
Zhanhu 2, Asian boogaloo
Knight bias lmao
buff??? hes brokens on lmao
Plot twist they nerfed him before release so that they could buff him and people would complain less later on.
And your already complaining before any of this even happens
@@Troupe_Master I wasn't complaining I was making a joke, so far I love the hero
This is the truth
@@SapphireRose363 i love the hero too, wish i could play him tho, i have this weird bug where i can't actually play him even though i've bought him, hope this gets fixed soon.
i hope so
They really had everyone wait till the last hour before release
yes and then they make a hero with such bad hitboxes
@@pmaddy4046 and chain links
@@alphatoomega7949 and recoveries
And a silly looking kick
It's the Zhanhu situation all over again.
Sounds like the design team got scared making an anitgank hero at the last minute.
Yep they want their game to suck
They love gank meta I mean they nerfed revenge into the ground what makes you think they are gonna allow a anti gank hero? People want easy ganks and easy kills
@@doomfishmain5154 this is it right here. You are right! ✅ They are catering to the casual player. Just like ever other company. They don't reward skill. They reward "FUN". 😒🤦🏿
@@metamorphosiiss this is a casual game anyway. Its a babies 3D fighting game.
@@metamorphosiiss both should be rewarded
Ubisoft:
"How much recovery do you want on that attack?"
"Yes."
I feel like he definitely needs some stamina and damage tweaks too. Getting less damage on the full block is weird especially since it costs the kyoshin so much stam to punish anything and the fast flow doesn't look as strong as aramushas.
It’s what I was saying on the Dev stream. Too much stamina for such little damage. His normal chains are better than his downstance damage. I get it’s for defense but ara has it too with decent damage and better follow ups. Much better angles and hitbox too.
My guess is that it's because of his feats in 4s. Remember that a superior block will triger his Tier 1 that inflicts bleed. if the base damage is high then the t1 would probably be a bit too strong.
Not a fan of this way of balancing tbh
@@UnPokemon they can just nerf the feat in the case. I rather have a hero with average or wack feats than be this bad. I’ll sacrifice all his feats. And his 4th is so easy to dodge! Holy shit people where crying about it!
I don't feel like I costs too much stamina, and the stance does 20 to 25dmg. 20 dmg for a light is good. I agree tho that his unblockable could be turned up to 30 (20+1+1+8)
I think it's to offset that holding the stance doesn't deplete stamina and to maybe encourage superior lights to be viable.
He’s like an anti-gryphon, Ubisoft pissed themselves when they saw how he was received, so kyoshin is now underpowered
People complain less about buffing heros who need a boost, vs nerfing heros who are OP on release.
@Devenn Eng all the samurai will be good after the shinobi and orochi reworks
I could see that happening, but now Gryphon is UNDERPOWERED AS FUCK, so by that logic, shouldn't Kyoshin be OP as fuck...?
@@jaymariscal9088 Gryph was never OP on Release, dude...! He was perfectly fine, until people bitched about it.
@@Wraith_of_Storm gryph main fingers typed this.
The character isn’t horrible, and he’s really cool, but he definitely needs some number tweaks and fixes
"people can light interupt your light into heavy chain"
Welcome to the world of Zhanhu and Raider mains!
Hey
Raider has hyper armor tho?
Yeah but that only applies to raiders light -> zone combo. At least his heavies have armor (that ubi is taking away). Zhanhu... I don’t play him because I think he’s boring but I know he has the same problem too. Don’t know how ubi could fix his tho
Considering zahn is crutch, id say thats perfectly fair
And jorm lol
I do dig the damascus sword in thumbnail
I feel like, after Gryphon, Ubi was so scared of releasing another OP hero that they just didn't give Kyoshin anything but style. Hopefully he gets at least a small buff so that he can at least compete, because he LOOKS cool and nimble, but feels incredibly clunky and slow to use
Well, at least he has the potential.
Yeah...the Community scared them shitless, even though Gryphon was never broken, in the first place.
@@Wraith_of_Storm can you stop going around defending ur main, gryphon was broken since day one and after the nerf he ain't op but still super cheesy.
@@miyamotomusashi527 and who's going to make me? You? That's a laugh, even from a clown like you. Gryphon was NEVER OP, NEVER BUSTED, and NEVER BROKEN! Salt-Lords like you, that got him nerfed, are the problem, not people whom ACTUALLY played him, and saw all of Gryphon's fallacies! Don't get pissed off at me, because you couldn't handle that he could consistently punish you, for making the wrong Read, numb-nuts!
@@Wraith_of_Storm you play the easiest character in the game
Weeb black prior except instead of a cook flip move he gets the super common move of being a disappointment. I've suffered more for good fashion though, so time to rep him up
Its zhanhu all over again
19:34 Freeze thanks his viewers in the most tsundere way lmao
I don't know what that means, but I'm fine with it :D
@@fkkfreeze tsundere is like you project yourself cold but you’re actually pretty nice and friendly i think
@@fkkfreeze the easiest definition of tsundere I think would be “shy” but it doesn’t fit much here so idk
@@cormoranoimperatore8413 Agressivly shy
idk, the "I guess a thank you is in order here" gave me a "it's not like I want to thank you or anything, viewer!" vibe
Dude, this hero is gonna be SO GOOD in 2 years or so!!!!!
:(
dude whys his damage so trash tho
Update! He is still not that good, R.I.P.
@@toa695 It's so kyover
Look what Gryphon did to the dev at a mental level. They are legit sacred of making character now
I don't plan on playing as him anytime soon, I just wanted to learn how to fight against him since I will be seeing many of him very very soon
same
I’m more worried about learning to fight the reworked heroes when they comes time.
He’s actually pretty easy to fight if you don’t try dodge everything. I just wish his all guard ability animation started sooner. Feels like I’m getting combo’d on parry timing
He’s all I see now. Ofc when anything new comes out people have to spam it so much that you don’t wanna get in that wagon. Conq, cent and black prior can take him pretty easy especially if the kyoshin you’re fighting is dodge happy. He’s an okay hero but I don’t think he’s as hyped as they made him and as players are making him seen. Gryphon on release was better than this character
@@thesaltyterminator101 true but most people play on release just to learn the character so they know his weaknesses then after a month it usually dies back down and only the people that actually wanna main him still play him.
Thanks Freeze
Bruh c'mon man i'm hyped for a hero for once and they're filled to the brim with problems :(
Sadness my bro.
Sadness.
Zhanhu release flashbacks
@@massivegat5087 Seriously. It's like no one learnt their lesson.
Hey zhan hu was highly anticipated but ended up not working but hey look at him now so if they can makr him good they can surely make kyoshin good as well
I mean it's not like the end of the world. His base moveset and concept is good, the problems are just couple numbers that can be fixed through tweaking in the future
I'm surprised no one finishes these videos. You're learning the entire character with their pros and cons
Freeze my guy, you can blade blockade the recovery frames of his heavy feint into bash whiff. Should be the same here IMO. Love the video as always!
Yes it's my favorite move always gets an exclamation from my opponent
Freeze the only one who'll demean me right before thanking me for watching lol. Can't deny though, learned a lot as always. Great video.
You said exactly what I said. He reminds me exactly like Zanhu release. He was fun for a few days then it’s become obvious that his mechanics are mostly for show and in order to be viable he’ll need a certain significant buff
I like how they made such a cool looking character, with such a nice move set....yet they make him super slow.
Slow, weak, and constantly OOS. This is possibly the worst new hero release I a have ever experienced.
They played it safe with him like aramusha and zhanhu he can only go up from here i only hope they dont take long to let him reach his potential as it did for them
When they released aramusha he could infinite light chain assassin's and they couldn't block.
It'll only take about 3x years, for them to make Kyoshin any viable...
Those chain links are honestly an absurd decision and I have no idea why they chose those numbers. It's so odd
It possibly might be because he can chain to bash after a h3avy. With short chain recoveries a heavy into bash might have been guarenteed. Not sure though
They were probably worried they would make it to high, kyoshin would be op as shit if that were the case, but I agree they've made it way to low
Maybe they're Esoteric, or telling us from beyond the Grave, to go fuck ourselves...! 🤣🤣
I think the hero would be OP if he had bigger damage numbers on his attacks or specifically the downstance.
@@marktilton7964 well gryphon and hito has confirmed heavys on bashes why cant he? I just dont understand how from a balance perspective some heroes gets a free heavy after a lvl 1 bash
This is the only hero that has brought me back to the game, he's what I've wanted since I started playing so I'm pretty excited
He seems pretty trash
not op and not decent , just trash
@@Troupe_Master well not really, if you actually learn his moves and how to use him I think you'll be able to wipe the floor with people
Man I am glad early access people got the hero. Because the rest of us cant even buy him right now.
I was so konfused after i bought him
Hopefully while we wait they’ll buff him.
Why are we unable to buy him? I thought the two weeks early started today?
We can buy them, it just won't let some of us unlock the character
They're fixing the problem rn
Good viedo man. I also appreciate you pointing out the flaws of him and keeping it real.
Im so tired of devs not testing their stuff and leaving that character in the shadows for atleast 3 months.
Oh man it was my initial thought at the reveal that he'd be like zhanhu on release, then after watching the whole thing I thought he would be a needlessly difficult hero like shaolin. Now after this he looks like both. He needs so much work just for his potential to be on par with his difficult. They really need to just need to hand you a hero well before its release.
He's really only intimidating, because he has Chains and Options, with a stricter Kit than Shnobs. However, to Master Kyoshin, it will take a long time.
tbh i couldnt care less about his viability ill just play him cus hes cool lol
exactly my thoughts lmao
@@Calamortar fashion over function ;)
We'll see about that
I agree but viabilty and functionality are two different things. A character can function but still be not viable ( like Orochi was for a long time for example ). Kyoshin has a lot of functionality issues for different numbers and hitboxes so his kit doesnt work properly even if used in the correct situations.
I also dont need a character I like to be viable but I want his kit to at least function properly.
Zhanhu moment
Out of fear of being called a kid. I watched to the last second.
Very informative bub, cheers for your efforts. Take care ^^
man i really did hit the nail on the head when i called him release zhanhu 2.0 lol
ubisoft just hates the asian factions lmao
Leave it to Freeze for the detailed analyses. I was waiting for this. Thanks a bunch mate! Great video!
Tell you the truth, he does feel very difficult to play in 4v4
Only content creator I know that ever truly says the truth. Thank you freeze, you are amazing
Well, Samurai so this kinda was expected
Hito Flashbacks
I swear Freeze, you're the only person who is not afraid to talk about issues with characters. I just done my first rep on kyoshin and oh my god was it a bad experience. inputs all over the place, people have enough time to light me in between light heavy combo, there's so much more...
Thank you for the diligence in your testing, this will go a long way to help my friends in fighting against a new hero. Keep up the good work dude.
Campaign animations, Zhanhu's finisher heavies, Orochi's dodges. Weird that Ubisoft spoke so highly of Kyoshin's animations considering he reuses them more than Warmonger.
They didn't say a word about this animation other then the community manager complimenting them once.
I like Kyoshin’s aesthetic, but after seeing those numbers *damn*
Freeze, I just want to say, your knowledge and analysis is so greatly appreciated. I don't think I speak for myself when I say that your videos are educational and can give someone a leg up on the competition. I've watched so many of your videos and they've made me a better player. From the bottom of my heart, thank you. 🙏
That's a few million legs, then, because everyone will have seen his videos, at some point in time!
@@Wraith_of_Storm not true. I'm in a FH group on FB and half the people don't watch Freeze. But nice try on trying to take the value away from my comment. 👍
@@wolfgangl8797 I was generalizing. You're actually trying to negate my comment, thank you very much.
K 🙄
If he doesn't have a afro as a headgear I'm not wasting my steel
*This is correct*
Gotta love afro Samurai
Gay
He doesnt
fujin force shouldve had BP's bulwark flip properties, which nullify all attacks including bashes
Would be really good.
Im still not a fan of fixed dodge attack timings and no followups for the new 300 ms dash startup 500 ms bashes
After using him in training against lv3 bots i feel that his all gaurd lacks damage when you compare it to the stamina cost
fr, an unblockable + 3 lights from all guard does 25 fucking damage. that’s nothing
Alright, I saved the best Kyoshin video for last. Time to find out his frame timings. Keep up the good work freeze!
16:00 damn why did you have to do them like that 😆
Great and badass in depth video. I hope Ubi listens to you on this to make him a lil better. Seriously those hitboxes you showcased are horrendous indeed
Unpopular opinion:
I almost never buy new heroes on release and usually wait to use silver and this is one of the few i might end up having on release and yet i still think its better for him to release underpowered and the get the slight buffs Freeze talked about...
Even if hes bad i will probably do well on him since nobody knows how to fight him and that will not hurt the player base since not many people (i hope) will immediately get angry at the character cus someone lighted them twice while using kyoshin.
Thk for the vid freeze! Always learn smth new from u. Now i know why kyoshin felt weird when i went to training grounds to try him 😁
Good stuff as always freeze. Thank you. 🙏
Not sure if you've noticed this in your testing or even mentioned it in the video, but since his down-stance light (and maybe zone?) has no gb vulnerability, he can light from down-stance on reaction to not only feint to gb but even gb sotf-feint. Which just makes certain mixups (like rider's heavy/storming tap/gb soft-feint) useless.
Never clicked so fast in my life
True 😂
Remember guys, a character can be bad and still be fun to play
I just played him and while I agree on the overhype he is a fun character to play if a bit hard to get the hang of.
Me, playing Shinobi knowing damn well I'm probably not gonna have fun half the match
Thank YOU for making all of this for every hero, even tho yt tells you that the majority of ppl are leaving at 7 mins
It might've been bot fuckery, but it's important to note that Kyoshin gets a Kaze stance heavy to Fujin cuts from a light parry (set bot to parry/block, so if this is just AI being dumb please correct me).
Meaning you can set up ganks from a light parry. Haven't made it to the end of the video so maybe you address it.
Glad to know I'm not a child haha
Did I see a zone flicker at 0:23?
Anyone got an issue where you bought kyoshin pack but its bugged?
I’ve paid it but it always refer me to “purchase” then “owned” and still can use him
Same man I reinstalled the game but still doesn’t work.
@@chappooo3641 oh god this is pure BS
Wait you can parry the Fujin Force even after it superior blocks something? So you’re potentially getting punished for using a supposed anti gank tool? Makes sense to me!
that's same for all external crushing counter attempts.
Old highlander cc lights being the worst of all.
If you target swap the Fujin Force to the one you CC externally is unparriable for them.
@@avdima5000 Yeah, but the fact that its explicit purpose is for external counters I would hope it isn’t parriable
Nuxia deflects can still deflected so this makes me not wondering
What I haven't seen being mentioned anywhere: against 2 or more opponents, the Kaze stance stops working/ stops working properly.
What I mean, unlike a FBS with any other hero, if you block a heavy, for a very short period of time, the animation is still there, but you can be hit, it's like it has to "spin up" again. Experienced this against bots numerous occasions. Haven't seen anywhere being mentioned that his FBS/Kaze stance is limited not just by stamina but by numbr of hits (or something similar) as well...
Long pauses between attacks are actually good, since he has tools to deal with that, he can just quickly enter full block. In fact it's wierd that other characters that can cancel into full block have quick combo attacks.
Hito finally has someone she can talk to.
I defy those TH-cam analytics, sir! Great video from beginning to end.
opponent: i will now use a light attack
freeze: so you have chosen punishment
Better a Hero that needs to be buffed, than a Hero who needs to be nerfed.
at least no one will shout that the kyoshin is broken or too easy like gryphon.
Agreed, Warmonger first, then Gryphons lead to annoying 2-3 weeks where squadrons of the same hero leveling the battlefield.
6:14 why are these numbers so high? Please give a valid justification for why BP’s chain bash is safe even against a lot of dodge attacks. Kiyoshin’s I think is just fine being unsafe to be honest, especially as it promotes wanting to dodge more in hopes of getting the punish
I'm personally okay with the base stance attacks having so much stamina cost considering the stance light is essentially a 22 damage light attack from neutral including the fujin cuts, and the stance zone has similar stamina drain to a regular zone including all the fujin cuts. The unblockable is the one where the stamina drain seems slightly execessive; id prefer if it didnt chain into fujin cuts and just did 25 base damage, and could only chain into fujin force (although it would be less cool). Then it would be more useful as a finisher attack. The counter versions are a different story, but if the same changes were made to the counter stance heavy, so it did 20 base damage and no fujin cuts, then I think it would be less annoying to use.
I'm guessing they made his bash recoveries absolutely horrible because the boys on reddit are saying BPs bash is op and completely unpunishable.
The fact that there is a full Reddit called: "For Honor Complaints" says something about the community. I wouldn't mind the bashes being unpunishable, hell, I don't mind if Kyoshin becomes the second Black Prior - It's just another challenge to overcome, but some don't like challenges after all...
LMFAO
@@artransformeraqe5692 a lot of the for honor players can’t adapt
366 chainlink feels like you’re playing a turn based hero
If kyoshin tries to guard break u after an unblockable feint he can‘t if u dodge backwards
Honestly I've been thinking the same just because I have been fighting them. Like, normally people just pick up the character and kick ass the first few days (while everyone else figures out how to combat them) and ubi inevitably debuffs them afterwords. But this new hero seems lacking compared to most launches, but maybe in reality that means that he is one of the more balanced new heroes that they have launched recently.
I found that if your opponent is unlocked/standing still, and if for some reason you decided to throw a light attack at them the scabbard bash will whiff
Honestly the cons only attract me to this character more. Kyoshin requires mastery and isn’t overpowered from the start. They require fixes yes, but once the main problems have been solved (mainly external hit-boxes) I believe this will be one of the more balanced characters. As you said the kit is there, he just needs some fine-tuning. Characters that require more knowledge to use effectively are just appealing to me. I will use this knowledge you have provided to master this character to the best of my abilities.
Thank you Freeze. A younger generation with an attention span of 9 minutes (probably a generous number) is far more concerning than the glaring issues with this hero.
I think you meant that their attention-span is all of 3x seconds, before they ignore you...! Probably explains why most kids in this game are garbage!
I really like the fact that you can gb the bash of your opponent if you succesfully dodge it. It should be the case for every bash characters
I'm happy he's not extremely overpowered, as every single dlc character on early access has been and the Wu Lin still are. Still, you can tell from miles away his design was intended for PC play, but that don't mean he's not fun to play with, against and along on console
Maybe he should get frame advantage after landing guaranteed light finisher after a bash. That would make up for punishable mid-chain bash and i'm ok with that, he doesn't need to be an unpunishable poosy like BP.
Make guaranteed cuts make like 2-3-5 dmg and use less stamina so they would be worth using when cancelling with a heavy. I'd like it to have bigger superior block window. Also fix that weird damage drop in stance follow-ups. 8 dmg light and zone and 10 dmg heavy for whatever reason. Just make all of them do 10.
And other things like follow-up after whiffed opener, lowering recoveries that Freeze stated in the video are also should be implemented.
Honestly kind of glad he'll need buffs instead of nerfs unlike other heroes when they were introduced
That's sad. Funny how ubi always find a way to disappoint
i think they were trying to avoid the backlash that warmonger and gryphon caused so they held back a bit on kyoshin, maybe a bit too much. he will hopefully get buffed soon.
Huhuhuhuh
@@Isaileee let's hope so
I feel like the 0ms gb vulnerability is the only reason I intentionally enter Kaze stance at all, knowing I wont just be guardbroken out of it immediatly.
Ah I thought this character would be great/OP like Warmonger, Gryphon, and BP but then I remembered this isn’t a new Knight
warmonger is not even close op like gryphon or bp
@@raphaelc9492 At launch warmonger's feats were absolutely broken, the best in the game without a doubt, zone b was literally unplayable
@@54ndm4n91 yes and feats are pretty strong but the kit warmonger has isnt broken at all yes feats are strong but only them bps kit is litterally the best ingame almost everything you do is unpunushable when you dont play dumb
His all garden is an OS. If they throw the heavy it gets blocked and if they faint to GB you light.
Idk if anyone noticed, but Kyoshin heavy finishers are pretty much the same animation as Zhanhus heavy finishers.
So its essentially Zhanhu finisher without unblockable. So in other words just slow.
IMO no hero should have a follow up light after a bash. I also feel like zhanhu should be able to go into gb from his unblockable heavy.
Hero came pre nerfed because of all the cry babies this game has.
You're probably right, and everyone's like "wah wah wah why is he so baaaadddd i was so exciiiitttteeeeedddd"
Lol
People will still call him op
I mean, have you *seen* release Gryphon?
@@crane5842 It was a nightmare
So what really stood out to me was the recoveries, though its hard for me to be too upset, as i dont think ones like BP should be safe in the first place, but chaining out of it is fine.
Next was the chain links, though its something thats normally hard to tell unless its super bad, the light to interrupt is not something i want to see in the game in this way at all.
Last was the awful hitboxes, just, like when the weapon is swinging through a model, it should hit it, just basic game design stuff.
"basic game design stuff", huh? I guess every game fails at it then.
So many people complaining that he isn’t broken and that they are gonna go back to aramusha or orochi. Just say that you only like pressing rb
Orochi?!
Orochi pre rework is ass
@@jarettweisgerber1964 you obviously aren’t that bright huh. All i was saying is that people people who were complaining about the new guy really wanted someone they only had to press rb with. Which is what almost every orochi and aramusha did. Now with the rework they are gonna be hurt that triple light spam is gone with him
I really hope he is considering trash by the community, more room for me to have fun with him and less kyoshin's
@@Aye_itsju Orochi really isn’t a good light spamming character tho, conq and ara have way more annoying. Plus orochis lights are easy to parry
huh, that double kyoshin infinite there makes it seem like it was by design, almost as if to go against the notion of single pick
“I don’t have particularly fast reactions” lmaoo me too buddy you’re alright man
Just saying Mucha can BB after a wiffed PS. It would be an interesting mixup if Kyoshin could go into a light or full guard after a wiff kick. Fodge attack beats the follow up, but an empty dodge into GB beats full guard.
I think they can't chain after kick because they could CC dodge attacks. If that is the reason than I would just make it a low recovery bash like BP, Warlord and Lawbringer.
Edit: I know the could just simply make the light come out at a more delayed timing if wiffed. So they Kyoshin could stuff a GB but can't CC a buffered dodge attack, but I think that would feel bad adding another delay onto Kyo. Just making it a wuick recovery bash would make more sense for a teamfighter/anti-ganker
I have to wonder if the inability to chain on the kick is a product of the backlash Gryphon used to get back when his shove was from neutral. Still the recoveries are dire. The good news is that most of these fixes are a case of numbers with the exception being hit boxes. Thanks for the in depth testing, hero unfamiliarity usually leads to early frustration and compliants but the only thing to be even remotely annoyed at fighting this hero is the prospect of two of them infinitely hitstunning you.
Single pick is needed. I get everyone wants to play the new hero at launch, maybe have a two to three week period of any picks but single pick should be the norm and I'll happily die on that hill alongside you and everyone else that sees its necessity.
Thanks for the handy video Mr Freeze.
Whew...was worried he was gonna be bad but at least its like low-tier badness in the form of bad hitboxes and chainlink timings. Similar problem to Jiang Jun at release if I remember correctly. Bit of Buff here and there and he'll probably be solid in 2v2s. Casual Play he's gonna be popular though, I just got a feeling in my guts. I fully expect to run into a lot of Kyoshin's in duels no matter what.
Best for honor youtuber