Spiritual Abuse in YWAM: the Other Side of the Story
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- If this video helps just one person, it'll have been worth it.
Part 2-
• Spiritual Abuse in YWA...
What is "spiritual abuse"?-
Spiritual Abuse Profile PDF
www.watchman.o...
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse interview with authors-
• The Subtle Power of Sp...
Thought Reform and YWAM
culteducation....
Dr. Robert J. Lifton's 8 criteria for thought reform (brainwashing/ mind control)
www.csj.org/stu...
Is YWAM a cult?-
Cultic Studies Journal-
docs.google.co...
Cult Education Institute
culteducation....
If any of this resonates with you, follow this link-
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I was at YWAM MAUI and found it hard to find others with trauma. No one understood. Thank you for this.
I also did my DTS in Maui
What is YWAM? This is my first time watching this.
This video brought me so much peace I was feeling so alone lately. My parents have worked with ywam for over 25 years and I grew up in ywam asa. Ywam kid and I left because of a bad situation and continued narcissistic and spiritual abuse and wasn’t able to talk about it until recently, it’s taken almost 8 years to even open up to start healing. Thank you for making this video. Your helping me heal.
😭 thank you for this
When you talk about flashbacks, I totally get it. I'm 64 years old...my SOE happened 45 years ago...and I still have PTSD from it. Your sharing this helps..
This comment is a year old, but I hope you can heal from your experience. I did a dts and soe in 2006 and it still hurts sometimes. I was traumatized and devastated for a long time. I’ve forgiven people but for a time I thought I was the only person who suffered while everyone else seemingly had great experiences.
I went through my DTS about the same time. I’m with you 100%.
My wife and I were both deploy affected by YWAM Perth and know how you feel. Thanks for this, you are NOT alone.
I've been replying to a few comments here asking for stories via email. Would you be willing to share yours? There's a large base here in Colo Springs, and I've even considered signing up. I'm really taken back by the massive amount of negative feedback in the comments section.
How long ago was that? I'm from Perth (Western Australia) & know someone who had a bad experience there (early 2002-3?) & actually told the YWAM leaders. I also knew one of the DTS leaders who was there from about 2000-2010 (if I remember correctly). Also there were a couple of others I knew in a church that had issues with each other as one had been a leader that caused trauma. Red flags all over that Base!!
Same, 2003 - 2004.
theres a fb page dedicated to people whom have suffered abuse from ywam perth, you may want to join hopefully this link works, it is a private and hidden group so may not: facebook.com/groups/2949405658673273/about
Hi Abbey. Thanks for what you shared. After 3 years in bible college with a theology degree, serving 1 years in an inner healing minstry and after 8 months of their discipleship course. I joined a DTS with YWAM. At that point i lived a pure life and when i went for 'ministry'. I told the leader i had no sexual sins in my life (i honestly didn't for a long time). I was accused of being a liar. I got told off and labelled a 'rebel' in a way because i didn't do things their way or just simple miscommunication. Eg when we came back from outreach. I had to phone my local council to pay my taxes. I did so during the tea break and got told i had to ask for permission to use my phone? They ended up withholding my certificate for graduation(i didn't really care to be honest).
DTS with ywam cost me 6 months of my life and lot of money. I met some amazing people and made some really good friends. However, it is sad to see such a godly organisation that was founded by the Lord going so downhill because of the sins of men. May they repent quickly
I was treated similarly at YWAM Sunny Coast in Australia. I would do something that wasn’t against any rules but was then scolded. If I asked what rules were broken, they just said that I shouldn’t have made decisions I had made (eg stay out ‘late’ or hang out with people outside of the group…) I was eventually asked to leave because I “wasn’t spiritually ready to carry the mission.” 💀
God bless you Abby, for your courage and extremely mature spiritual and psychological insight. My late wife and I took our DTS Training from September 1993 to February of 1994, and stayed on to serve as Missionaries for a total of two years until April of 1995. Most of our experience was quite positive, and I still have healthy connections with three of my fellow staff people who are still serving on the base where we served. I am praying about returning to missionary service, but I'm not certain that it will be with YWAM. Thanks again Abby, so very much! Ted Schempp, Nashville
Love how YWAM Newcastle's response is to drill home how you 'should see a therapist' about 5 times to make it sound like your crazy.
YWAM is just another Bethel cult in different colours
Yes, YWAM, Bethel and IHOP! I was in IHOP as a teen and YWAM shortly after. So much abuse. Checks all the boxes for a cult.
@@BitterT Sadly, there are other groups out there with similar traits. My college church wasn't as way out there as Bethel (from what I hear), but we were influenced by YWAM and to a degree, IHOP-KC. It seemed as if we sometimes dealt with similar issues.
I've taken a look at IHOP-KC's Prophetic History. Crazy stuff, some of it - as in, sometimes it would come across as occultic / demonic - to me, anyway. One point I still remember is a story of I think Mike Bickle going overseas I guess around the time period of the Toronoto Blessing - probably at Holy Trininty Brompton or a related church.
The description of the "Spirit" manifesting in other ministers there - something to the effect of convulsions and animal sounds, but seemingly leaving the other ministers unable to control themselves in a coherent manner, and seeming to kind-of debase the other ministers..... it just struck me as demonic, not peaceful or Christ-like. But, that's my personal take on it.
There have also been other issues related to (seemingly) false prophets that Mike Bickle has associated with at various points in time.
BTW, for anyone reading this: I have NO known connection to the (I think 1990) Rev. Ernest "Ernie" Gruen Report ("Documentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries)"). The document I believe covered concerns related to Mike Bickle's / the Kansas City Prophets' ministry pre-IHOP days.
Yep! I am an ex-ywam staff
And now I am a reformed calvanist. Theology is important and ywam, bethel, ihop, etc. are train wrecks theologically
Final Countdown-Seeing a therapist doesn't mean "you're crazy", it's means there are some hurts that you can heal from. YWAM Newcastle is acknowledging that, and offering to help Abby find the therapist and pay for it, I think that's great. YWAM isn't right for everyone and not every base is the same, but for the most part it was a good fit for me. Blessings to you!
Thank you so much for telling your story. I was in YWAM 2014-2016 and have now come to terms that I was spiritually abused by a few of my leaders and manipulated. The fundamental teachings of YWAM itself put an enormous burden on the individual to "save" souls while simultaneously preaching "God does the saving." Until you don't "obey" and they say you're being rebellious. Like you, I was never labeled rebellious by anyone EVER not even by my own parents. I did make wonderful friends and got to travel at 21, but I would not do it again. What you summed up on outreach was similar to how I felt on mine. One particular moment I remember walking with my outreach leader saying the school I planned on doing after and she said "How do you know you're going to graduate DTS?!" very rudely, in a way that communicated "you better watch yourself or else I'll withhold you from graduating." I had great work done - I went above and beyond in my written work during lecture phase and always engaged. I was teachable and eager to learn being a new Christian and around other Christians in a setting I wanted to be in, yet during outreach was when I felt the most outcasted and hurt. my outreach leader treated me horribly! I was the only one in my outreach team who didn't speak mandarin (It was in a bilingual school) so I was heavily reliant on my 28 year old bilingual classmate to translate everything for me. I was 21 at the time and didn't have a girl friend to talk to since the leader's English was broken and she was the one who treated me poorly. My response at the time was to fawn and suck up, so betraying myself to appease my status. My worth became low. I'm so happy I decided to come home in 2016 even though the adjustment was like a dry desert hole wondering what I was doing with my life. I thank God for my friends in my church, my parents, especially my mom. I was naive and young, and didn't know that people in this organization have other motives outside of sharing the gospel- they need students to run their schools, run the base, uphold the functions of the base, help them remain leaders. Its all a business, even though they don't "make money" in a salary. They still need students to survive.
Anything that adds to the cross is not the gospel
Yeah! That is exactly what I saw when I went there as a guest. The sell books and snacks and all sort of things to make money. And if you stay there visiting family you need to give an “offering” to cover the food and “things” it is so weird.
Hi Marissa! I absolutely loved reading your comment about your own personal experiences. I am in the middle of interviewing women who have been through YWAM and experienced spiritual abuse, and I would love to hear more about your experience.
I experienced heavy spiritual abuse in ywam in Auckland NZ in 2002-2005. It was hard initially to tell my story. I got attacked a lot from current and former ywam’ers who love ywam. Truth was they were offended and thought it was ok to attack me. I suffered sever guilt to try to please God as a result of spiritual abuse. I was given “words” from my leaders that I am prideful or I need to learn humility. I was told that my words, tone of voice, way I dressed, and body language was seductive. I was eventually told that I emotionally rape girls which was a “word from God”. When I addressed this abusive counselling years later and how those words weighed heavy on me for years I was told it wasn’t their fault and that they are not personally responsible for sharing “words from God”. Long story short I’m glad I came out the other side to see the truth of how manipulative and arrogantly abuse these leaders were and that I have severed ties. Severing ties was not easy due to the sense guilt of going against God’s will which my leader always promoted, and the sense of loss of what feels like your godly family and the loss of identity and direction in your life. I eventually found that my identity is only in Christ. And that all my sins are the cross. Ywam kept projecting sins onto me. Very evil and deceptive because ywam seem to be such loving and amazing people. This is why its so hard. Its a doctrine and a spirit operating behind these people. You have to have very strong discernment and a strong sense of identity to exit this abuse organisation. Good on you for speaking out and sharing your personal experience. God bless!
I grieve for stories like these. For people like you. But grieving together is better than grieving alone, so thank you for sharing all of this.
Wow I’m so sorry you went through this. The enemy is on the prowl for sure … so glad you know your identity is firm in Jesus alone!!! God bless you
From what you've shared here, I'd say you are processing what you went through in a mature and healthy way. As you know, you're not alone in what you experienced. Warning others is a responsible thing to do, and you should be commended for the God-honoring way you've done that. :)
Just wanted to say thank you for putting this online. I understand why you didn’t want to but did it anyway and I’m greatful for it. I’m so sorry that this has happened to you it hurts to hear you describe the pain that your in and I hope you get completely healed. May God richly bless you sister. Stay strong in the Lord.
Thanks so much for opening up. I was in YWAM for 8 years and am working on a video response to YWAM's recent Spiritual Abuse message they posted. I am devastated that a ministry I devoted 8 years of my life to has caused so many people so much pain.
Good for you! I hadn't seen that they'd posted a message like that recently.
Erik please could you share how to find that video by YWAM about spiritual abuse?
@@debradurrant6153 This may be the YWAM message referred to: lynngreen.blog/2020/10/09/live-spiritual-abuse-in-ywam/
Erik-I was in YWAM full-time for 4 years, plus some short-term stuff prior to that. I'm a licensed therapist and I'm looking at starting some sort of recovery program for former YWAMers-I'd love to hear from you: monicaruby62.mr@gmail.com Blessings!
Thanks for your courage Abby. Your analysis of how YWAM makes you part of a group that no one outside of YWAM can relate to is excellent. YWAM has always been about conformity. I was in it nearly 40 years ago for 4 years. It can't be reformed, it is a fundamentally flawed organisation. Hope that you enjoy rich blessing for your future.
dude, i went to Kona for DTS in 2018 and it ruined the entire foundation of my belief... I’m still working through what i believe and this is nearly 1.5 years later. it was so manipulating and emotionally abusive- they told me if i left the program early God was going to judge me for the lives i didn’t rescue on outreach. i flew home completely convinced God had turned his back on me. i’m so sorry you had to go through what you did- thank you for sharing your story!!
Thank YOU for sharing yours! How awful!
Do you have a video posted of your story? I am (was?) a potential student vetting the organization.
L! So sorry you went through that! :-(
I am amazed by your graciousness and lack of bitterness. That's worthy of admiration. Thank you for sharing. May God bless you!
Woah. The point you made on the counciling one on one with your leader is very eye opening. There are people who are not qualified to be counciling people (some with all sorts of complex trauma) and the leaders are very young. I was blessed with a pretty wise leader for one on one, but not everyone in my school got that.
Thank you Abby, you’ve inspired me to share my story. Even though it’s hard to just pray now (which is even hard to admit), I will pray for you. This experience is very near to me, so thank you for being so bold.
What you share is very important and needs to be heard. I am sorry you went through this. I am not in YWAM I am thinking about it, but after just watching two videos it's make me think twice and going on Reddit and even typing, "Is YWAM a cult." It is making me not wanting to join now and to stay away from them. But, I am still discerning about everything. Thank you for making this video I wish I could help honestly.
I understand you completely. I have never been in YWAM, but a friend of mine used to be part of DTS in the early 2000s, then, in 2010 she went back for another course, in Muizenberg, South Africa. And since then she remained there as a staff member "specializing" in healing. There were a number of times though, where I questioned her about some of their practices (I would call it rituals). They hold Strategic Prayer Outreaches which, I pointed out to her, are nothing more than seances. Even her experience as being the "vessel" during one of these outreaches, speaks of demonic manifestations. She did not want to listen. She has trouble studying the Bible, uses aromatherapy as part of inner healing (which follows in the same lines as hypnosis), and they apply the gift of prophecy similar to one would apply fortunetelling. Finally, but also the first time that I started to notice something is wrong, was when I asked her how could they teach the gifts of the Spirit? Because only the Holy Spirit can make those things work. And they invent their own gifts. One evening, she told me she knew a guy who had the gift of speaking to animals... I can go on and on. But yes, from the outside I can certainly empathise with you. And I pray that you will not throw away the Christ of the Bible, because of some misguided people.
It is a cult. Based on emotion and control.
It’s been over 40 years since I did my DTS and the experience is something I’ve carried with me my entire life. At first it was very painful and it took me about 2 years to get over the emotional,psychological, and spiritual damage it caused me. Eventually I settled with it all and came to realize that God isn’t defined by what people do. In my present life, it serves me well to be able to have discernment and healthy skepticism in spiritual matters.
Mostly what I want to say to you is you’re not alone, there are plenty of people who would not give over there minds to the organization and suffered for it. I do not think all of this was good intentions gone wrong. I know of instances where people were spied or given info on that turned into words of knowledge from the leadership. It’s just that when you have a doctrine like the one YWAM has, this is going to be the outcome.
Keep working through your pain and know God is with you and there is purpose behind what you experience. If you see it through, you will find the answers you are looking for.
God bless you,
Thank you for sharing your story Abby. Courage right here. I am writing a memoir about growing up as fundamentalist and joining YWAM at the age of 17. Confused identity and being told that I only get my identity from someone else - Jesus. Learning to trust my doubts. It's painful to go into the past especially in my early 30s now, but I know it will help people and also provide me with greater clarity and awareness. I am relearning a spiritual connection to myself and the world that was lost through years of deconstruction. I had to throw the baby (spirituality/god/the universe) out with the bath water in order to rebuild. I held everything up to the light. If anyone would like to reach out I'm happy to share my story and listen to yours. I spent time at YWAM Perth DTS 2006 and 2008 BCC, also Melbourne YWAM 2006.
Hey Abby, so brave of you to share your story. It takes courage to do what you do. God bless you ❤️🤗🙌
I went to YWAM Denver for my DTS around 2001 and it is one of the worst spiritual abuse bases I experienced.
🫶🏻😓
I was at YWAM urban key London. I was emotionally abused, threatened because I questioned some of their practices. I was labelled a rebel. I was racially abused. They wanted to control every aspect of my life. They said they couldn't trust me because I wasn't telling them deep things about my life. I eventually left but had to deal with a lot of emotional trauma. Still trusting God to heal me totally. I am proud of Abby. God bless you
Wow!!! I could tell you some stories about my YWAM experience in Iquitos Peru (I don't think the base exists anymore) but OMG that was definitely spiritual abuse.... I was punished, humiliated and being treated as a liar and they told me if I don't start "obeying God soon", will I not only not graduate, but I wouldn't be able to go on outreach neither... I was so young and thought something is wrong with me. I felt so left alone. Thinking back to it now, we were totally manipulated. But I am glad I had some good people there too that made the experience bearable. But I would never do a DTS again! I have seen too many bases with the same kinda hierarchy and bubble life... and unfortunately also some things that Abby described I noticed when doing my BLS (secondary school, which luckily I didn't finish) at YWAM Brisbane. I love the people there so much, don't get me wrong and they are great people, but the teachings (often my friends and I had discussions with the leaders about certain things not being biblical, but they always found an excuse for anything. I didn't buy it and I stopped following their rules on how to complete the homework in their eyes successfully. Then they threatened to not let me graduate again and I said: I am here to learn and grow personally, I honestly could care less about that graduation paper... oh man, I don't even want to go there... soooo soooo many stories I could tell you), the "popular kids groups", the hierarchy, the one on ones, which definitely are forced, many times senseless counseling sessions... all those things are definitely a big, big concern. I believe YWAM does a lot of good stuff out there, I really do, but on many bases the above mentioned things overweigh and are never put light on, as long as all is up and running... and that's just wrong. (Oh man, here I was just wanting to write 2-3 sentences.... it's crazy so many people experience something so traumatic and bad. That makes me so sad).
Wow, this is one of the most relatable comments I’ve seen so far.
Hey former roomie haha girl I wish we had talked more at the time because I was struggling with the same things. It's crazy to know that so many others (because girl there were definitely a few of us) were going to leadership with issues and yet they just shut everyone down all the time. I have so many concerning things about that base that I'm still processing through, and I didn't talk to you on base much because I literally thought you loved ywam so much and feel like I could relate 😂 yes, Elijah and I left because of Covid, but I had already decided to leave BLS due to the theological issues, leadership problems, and all the spiritual abuse I was experiencing. Now, I've heard so much more from others who have left and who are still there (or were more recently) and yikes. Just so much to process. Hope you're doing well!!
Hi Anja! I am in the middle of interviewing women who have been through YWAM and experienced spiritual abuse, and I would love to hear more about your experience. Would you be interested in doing something like that?
@@dylanward7284 Hey Dylan, I am definitely open to share more. Where can I best contact you?
Wow! Okay, so I see this is an older post. I’m so glad I randomly looked this up. I’ve been doing a lot of inner healing and i found your video. I went to ywam Orlando and I have a very similar story. The leaders were Very controlling before and during outreach but especially abusive during out reach. They collected all of our money for food and spent our own money on the food. Which was very little. We were all very hungry & ended up spending our personal money. They controlled everything we did. They forced us to share doctrine and smuggle bibles into a Muslim country which was illegal. We had to share how many people we shared with at the end of each day which felt so forced. At the end of the out reach I calculated how much money was spent on meals & there was over 1000$ remaining. I asked where that money was going to and they said to the building on the new property
I said I do not agree with this and we ask for our money we didn’t use for food back. They got extremely defensive & said I was causing all the problems for the team. We came back to Orlando from Turkey and I was extremely sick. I thought I was coming back to my room where I spent during my lecture phase, i was told the day of we were forced to camp on an Isolated abandon land ywam Orlando just purchased it was remote from anything, we were a group of 8. The leaders abounded our group on the vacant land to stay for over a week with no running water, no showers, and Porto potty’s that we’re completely full. We called the dts lecture leader and said there’s no running water, I’m sick and can we please stay in a actual house, they said all the housing was taken & they arranged for us to showier at a gym that was 20 min from the property..Luckily I was the only person with a car & we made trips to the gym to shower it was a group of 8 of us. If we didn’t have a car we’d be screwed I guess. It was in the dead of winter which was so cold and I had horrible respiratory infection& ended up having to go to urgent care & I slept in the car. I and my team were so upset called the leaders and said it wasn’t fair that we were stuck there alone. We asked to give a written review and I was gaslit and told if I had any thing bad to say it would be discarded. They used our money and abandon us at the end of our outreach. This organization is All about the money. I never received the graduation certificate. After All the out reach leaders blocked me on social media. It was like I was the bad guy.
I never received my certificate of completion. All this to say I do not regret going I realized things happen, this experience actually contributed to issues in my marriages and my husband and I suffered and lost faith all together & got divorced. Not blaming ywam for divorce or any problems but I felt very disappointed and hurt as such a young person in my faith. I was like you said pushed from Christianity and Christians.
I’ve heard countless stories just like yours over the years, both from strangers online to people I know in-person. It always boils down to the money in one way or another. It’s all a scam.
Thank you Angel for your story it made me feel heard and understood. I never told anyone how I felt. You’re brave and I appreciate you sharing bc it unlocked some pain i had shoved down. I was able to release this. Thank you. Sending you love!
Hi Lindsay! Oh my gosh, thank you for sharing your story in these comments. I have experienced spiritual abuse as well. It is so heartbreaking! I am in the middle of interviewing women who have been through YWAM and experienced spiritual abuse, and I would love to hear more about your experience in person. Would that be something you would be interested in?
Thank you Abby Townsend for speaking up about YWAM and the spiritual abuse you experienced.
I was on staff for 4.5 years at YWAM Redding. This is an issue across the board :) You are brave to share! Know this YWAM is not an organization that anyone should partner with!
There is hope on the other side! I’m currently working full time in a Church. Have walked through forgiveness and am at the healthiest point in my life! I have an amazing community and an awesome life right now!
I’m going back to school to be a Pastor! Know this Jesus is bigger than YWAM and a man made organization is not a true representation of Him!
Thank you that helps to know it took me 28 years to get back on track. I was in a Y w a m environment for around twenty years. It took everything I had. I am starting over.
This is totally my experience when I was in my 20s. Not everything the same but very similar and trauma from outreach, I was told we were to share in Jesus sufferings. We were unsupported, had incredibly inexperienced leaders and were made to feel as if I was a Jezebel woman. Hope you get freedom from the Lord on your journey and if you ever need to talk let me know.
Hi Andrea! I have gone through a very similar experience too through another "Christian" organization. It is super tragic to see happening. I am in the middle of interviewing women who have been through YWAM and experienced spiritual abuse, and I would love to hear more about your experience. Would you be interested in sharing about what you experienced in your 20's?
@@dylanward7284 potentially, do you have a social media I can link up with you on?
Hi Andrea! I don't think TH-cam allows posting of links or personal emails unfortunately but my email is on my cover photo. If you click my name, you should be able to see it. That might be the only way we can get in contact.
There were def some cult like attitudes, actions, and disciplines during my DTS in 2010 in Panama. I have not been the same since. Several others in my group, and those that lived on the base under the same leadership, feel the same. There was A LOT of spiritual abuse. I would NEVER recommend YWAM to anyone.
Good on you for exposing this cult. I did my DTS in YWAM Ireland in 2013 and caused a lot of issues in my life. YWAM pointed me down a dark path but thankfully God brought me to the light
Abby,
thank you for sharing. i’m currently on outreach with ywam and i’ve definitely experienced a lot of the things you mention here, especially as an outlier, a questioner, a non-conformist. i feel very fortunate to have people at my base that i can freely communicate with about my struggles and concerns, and fortunately i have a real servant-hearted leader, and i’ve found a lot of freedom in seeking God’s truth in these situations.
i hope it all shakes out well in the end.
i’ll be praying for you, and i hope you’re doing well! (pray for me too pls. lol outreach is exhausting.)
to clarify, i am not under the slightest impression that i have been in an abusive environment in my base, but i do relate to some of the sentiments of stress, pressure, and emotional duress that you have mentioned.
@@oohbabydoyouknowwhatthatsworth Your positive experience in YWAM does not negate those who were damaged spiritually & emotionally by abuse!
@@Longe never said it did. every base is different.
@@oohbabydoyouknowwhatthatsworth I'm planning on doing a DTS still. I think it's more about the base and people over there than YWAM in general that has the issue. No idea what they mean when they say their theology is wack tho..
@@volstrekt did you do it? What was your experience?
Good job Abby sadly when I first watched this video it did not discourage me from going because I felt strongly led by God. I didn’t realize how real the abuse would be but now I know. And I thank you because this video in the back of my mind helped me protect myself.
Wow. That’s so sad to hear yet encouraging to know that it stuck with you like that and maybe protected you in some way. I hope all the best for your healing journey. ♥️
I hope you didn’t stick it out for the entire six months! For your own sake and spiritual health.
Around 15:30 - That notion of being transported back: no, you're not crazy. Not really. That's pretty normal for abuse survivors, especially when fairly fresh out. It's called dissociation, and it happens when you've been through situations with intense emotions. I was abused in a church group influenced by YWAM. It sounds as if our theology and practices were similar. I've been out about 15 years now and have been able to process a lot of what happened. The dissociations can become less in time, especially if you process what happened to you with other folks who are further along in the healing process.
When I was in my group, I would have recurring nightmares of trying to stand up to my leaders, only to have them use their spiritual authority to subdue me into silence and subversiveness, while leaving the abuse in place. Then later, these would be an occasional vision during the day. They subside in time if you leave the harmful environment for a free and supportive environment. In other words, if anyone is making you feel controlled, do your best to get out of that unhealthy environment.
What I needed was to leave the group, get help, and not go back. I gotta be honest, though: mentally, I feel as if I am in a reasonable spot; but I have had to quit going to church for the time being. I think that part of this is because where I live currently, Christians seem to have a bad habit of developing cultic- or controlling-type tendencies that act as triggers for me. It's just not worth it to me to remain mentally in a bad way, so my idea of church now is spending time with my family and thanking God by enjoying life. No, it's not a perfect witness; but I consider it an improvement over the rough shape I ended up in while attending my abusive church.
I haven't had that nightmare in so long that I barely remember it now. Later on, I also had an occasional nightmare / dream while I was in the dissident blogosphere of my old church. Not really anymore. Seriously, as you heal up, it will likely get to be less and less of an issue.
Day to day, I don't really think about my old church anymore. I mean, sure, occasionally I think about how I'd like to write a memoir about my journey to healing someday; but it can wait until I have the time. People in my group have already spoken up, and I have been a very vocal dissident of my old church. I spoke up, because I believed it to be the right thing to do.
If you're worried about reconciling, don't be. Sure, try first to work things out with the leaders; but after you've tried working things out, your job is done. Your job is forgiveness and an attempt at reconciling. If your leaders don't want to repent of their sins against you, that's their problem, not yours. If they continue to abuse others - if they continue to espouse false teachings, like excessive submission to them, or promotion of extra-biblical revelation - you are free to leave and should do so, to preserve your faith. If you consider the teachings of the Bible, it might occur to you that even in the New Testament, the leaders back then had to deal with false teaching in the Church. The doctrines YWAM believes on an official level that are responsible for the spiritual abuse that has occurred are false teachings - lies that rebel against the Truth of the Bible. When you're a Christ follower, your job is to follow Christ, not false teachers. If you need a reminder, among other passages in the Bible, there's the Book of Galatians.
Good luck healing, y'all. It certainly can be done!
Thank you for sharing Abby! Your very brave and honest and im glad that you did. Alot of us went through what you went through and left YWAM heart broken and disappointed. But could not have the courage to share it. Thank you!
24:00 - The problem with cultic groups is that the damage is typically done by the ideology / doctrine leading to harmful thoughts and behaviors. As Abby points out, it's not really about an individual. It is more like a systemic problem that requires reassessment of core doctrines and practices. As an ex-member of a cultic church, I know exactly what she's talking about. The leadership needs to re-evaluate the group's core doctrines and related practices.
You Did The Right Thing Abby We Support You and Will Make Sure This Video Reach to Millions.
A few months ago I left a Christian campus ministry called Chi Alpha. They actually partnered with YWAM in many things. There’s so much I could say about it. We have similar experiences. I am still very strong in my faith and thankful that I have Jesus, however I could understand how a group like this could deter someone. It’s sickening. I will never be the same after leaving Chi Alpha. Spiritual abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse, it all occurs nationally. Our only allowed reading material was actually made by someone in YWAM. Groups like these just give me this pit in my stomach, this odd feeling. I’m not sure if you know what I mean, you might have felt it, it’s just the feeling of “something is not right here”. So glad I left and I’m glad you’re out of YWAM.
Oof damn I did my dts in Kona a few years ago but your story is so similar to mine. Thank you so much for making this video!!! Much love and peace 💕
Aamanda Zittlau konas horrible it ruined my life
Aamanda Zittlau i went to Kona for DTS in 2018 and it was so destructive!!
L ! Can You message me!!!
Cailey Joshua i did ywam in kona too. just got back from my dts so broken and confused. it absolutely destroyed me. you aren’t alone!!
Megan Taylor wow I’m just seeing all of these comments now and I hate to hear how many people have big scars from Kona. I really want to make some TH-cam videos talking about my experience but it’s so hard to get that vulnerable to the world
My son has been terribly damaged by YWAM. His story is very similar to Abby’s.
Just met this group - appreciated your video and congratulations on surviving them. As an atheist I see these groups from a mile away, just surprised how many people they churn through.
It sounds like control has taken over in YWAM. I looked at their programs a while back for my son. Their "tuition" is crazy.
My whole DTS cost over $10,000 USD and they couldn’t even afford to turn our AC on in a room shared by 8 people in the dead of an Australian summer. $10,000 would pay for a year of my rent and groceries, now. DTS was 5 months. And I only have one roommate, not eight. Not to mention the fact that we ate nothing but rice, ramen and canned tuna for weeks straight on outreach. I spent hundreds of dollars extra on food for myself when I either couldn’t stomach one more bowl of rice or was weak from lack of protein or still left hungry after meal rations for the base just weren’t enough. And that’s coming from someone who eats relatively very little. There were a few times on outreach where I straight up saved my food for one or two of the boys whose lunch would be donated to a villager by a team leader in their absence and without their consent. I’d love to go back and ask for an itemized list of where our money really went, frankly. I find it very hard to believe that all this was necessary or that the budget was this slim after responsible calculations were made.
25:08 - "And I'm also not trying to discredit the people who have good experiences. I can only speak for myself and on behalf of others like me."
Even in unhealthy groups, people's individual experiences tend to vary. This is normal. I agree with Abby, though: I think everyone ends up altered in a less-than-desirable way, but that not everyone experiences it in the same way. Sometimes the harm comes in apathy toward others, or warped theology.
My experience wasn’t that bad but I also came in older... loved your comment about “critical thinking”. Critical thinking isn’t a high value in YWAM or a lot(most) WOF charismatics...
Thank you for sharing your story. I completely concur on the points you made even though my experience with ywam was 40 years ago! Iwish I'd woken up as a young adult as you have. Ive only recently come toterms with my ywam experience and how i wasted my youth and young adulthood in a cult like organization.
Wow!
Praise Jesus!!!
Better late than never.
HalleluYah!!!
31:12 - Connecting with folks who understand what you've been through can help a lot. Abby is right: a lot of mental health professionals are poorly-trained in helping spiritual abuse survivors heal. A number of them can do more harm than good, especially if they are from your abusive group or have a personal prejudice / bias against Christian ministry / church abuse survivors. If ever you discover that you are having a difficult time getting help from a mental health professional because they are from your abusive group, consider their response. Find advocacy or other support as needed.
Jesus Christ is the only healer and only He can heal us from anything, including gravest spiritual abuse situation!
Today’s doctors know nothing. Even so-called “Christian“ ones, because they’re still trained within the clueless satanic “medical system” of the world.
Pastors can help and guide the soul to seek the healing and deliverance from Jesus Christ!
For He is the only TRUE doctor and healer there is.
HalleluYah!!!
I feel for you. I've been to kiddy teen camps for a week at a time so I can only begin to empathise what it was like and the confusing deep sorrowing pain that lingeres in the guy and throat when you leave, left feels like you need someone to take your hand.
I hope you're strong still, I'm sure you are. Thanks for sharing as much as you did, not everyone has the heart to share with such painful honesty. You're beautiful and wonderfully made inside and out, I believe in you!
Ps. And thanks I was actually just looking into ywam for 2020 and stumbled across this. x Jesus
You are BEAUTIFUL!
KEEP smiling.
You're doing the right thing.
youth with a mission. now the word youth actually stands for young in bibilical knowledge and spirituality. and the mission is to decieve many to hell. look up ywam together 2016 and watch the whole event.
Well done for speaking out. May God bless you and keep you. The Lord can heal you from the abuse. I was in an abusive marriage for 25 years, God has healed me from that and He can heal you also. Keep speaking the truth in love. Keep exposing the NAR as the cult that it is. Blessings from Australia
I’m happy not to be the lonely person that was left behind with that.😕
Thank you for opening up!
I feel you babe. I am 1 year out of 5 years in ywam and I'm overwhelmed with how much pain and difficulty it caused me and my growth. You're not alone and thank you for making this video so I dont feel so alone either.
Yes there are corrupt people everywhere even in recovery groups unfortunately
I was asked to leave after three months at YWAM Sunny Coast for “not being spiritually ready to carry the message”
Basically, I had my own thoughts and asked too many questions, and I stood up for myself when leaders would be inappropriate. Now I see it as a positive thing that they were threatened by me enough to make me leave! I do believe that they are definitely a dangerous group.
(This was in 2012)
My girlfriend went to YWAM and went on a NIKO adventure. My girlfriend won’t tell me what they did on NIKO because they made a “promise” with the NIKO group. What should I do? And honestly I don’t like it. Should I even be with someone like this?
I noticed in one of the comments you made a reference to the negative influence of the “NAR.”
I have been studying its biblical and spiritual distortions and subsequent influence infiltrating ministries.
But it is a very broad umbrella term that cessationists use to condemn all of Pentecostalism.
I believe it’s biblical that we can function in a healthy “full gospel” way regarding supernatural gifts and callings.
I am curious where you stand currently in your understanding.
I admire your Berean due diligence in researching Calvinism etc. as revealed in one of the comments.
And I really appreciate you coming forth and giving your testimony.
There are no right or wrong answers to separate humble yielded believers when we are just honest and sincere with one another about our internal dialogues.
May God purify those who corrupt others with twisted theology
Powerful video. I too had a similar experience at YWAM Perth. Well done this was led with real wisdom.
Te felicito por tu compartir lo que muchos pensamos pero tambien callamos, eres muy valiente. Estoy muy agradecida por que esto llego a mis manos.
I congratulate you for sharing what many of us think but also keep quiet, you are very brave. I am very grateful that this came into my hands.
Hey, sorry this was your experience
Went to YWAM in Australia did a dts and had the best time ever changed so much for me. Went home afterwards and could apply so many things in my daily life. Have friends who are happily staffing as well. So can't really agree on it all
Thank you for sharing, I was with YWAM Amsterdam from 2004-2010.
Watch, The American Gospel, it literally will set your free, because you have been influenced, good thing the truth is still Jesus. Godbless you.
The book The tale of three Kings I enjoyed because every boss that I have had has fallen into one of those three categories Saul Absalom and David the book caused me to ask God who am I to you and how true to who God says I am in spite of the leadership above me
All my friends who were in YWAM grew closer to the Lord and came out so on fire to share the gospel. I am curious about specific teachings you felt were not scriptual? I worked along aside YWAM food for hungry in Sultana,CA. I think you are in the minority and am sad you feel you were abused but wonder why you didn't just go home?
Yashua is life and can save your soul,When you repeant and ask him for forgiveness for all your sins he will make you a new soul,heart,spirit,and mind he will be your savior and your Massiah ❤
Yashua is The Truth
John 14:6
6 Yashua saith unto him,I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
After coming to the truth and truly falling in love with the real Jesus and the real bible
I literally cannot stomach the thought of going back to a place that practices NAR teachings. I am repulsed by what bill Johnson, Todd white and many others preach, and I hope they repent!
Sound theology and actual BIBLICAL training bring life! There is life in the word of God, and that is why we need to interpret it correctly and disciple people CORRECTLY!!
Thank you!
I experienced the same abuse at the ywam base in Em springs Arkansas
I’m so sorry to hear that, Katie. Thank you for sharing that. Every single voice matters and makes a difference. Someone who might be considering doing a DTS can scroll through the hundreds of comments here and see so many like yours and be able to make a more informed decision based on these testimonies, and likewise someone who has also experience abuse under YWAM leadership can see these hundreds of comments and feel validated and understood. I made this video for both of these people.
Anyone here because they were in Riggins, Idaho YWAM? 80's to 1990's..
What's the direct link for the Facebook group? I want to make sure I joined the correct one.
Hi Abby! I will soon be getting interviewed about my experience out of YWAM..do I have permission to use some clips from your videos and link them in the description? I want people to know I’m not making this stuff up
As you said we ALL ARE EFFECTED BY IT!!
You’re more than welcome to! I’d be more than happy to help in any way I can.
Great video !!!
I was at YWAM Chico ca. I was told when on outreach don’t tell Muslims about Jesus you will scare them
Same years as mine. Did you come to Cape Town, South Africa for your outreach? #sighs I went back to the streets after my DTS... Just so I can afford my bills. Atleast I'm wiser now...?
Is this about sexual abuse? It would help to understand what happened by telling specific stories.
Not sexual abuse in my case, no. Spiritual, psychological and emotional abuse namely. I have other videos uploaded with specific examples.
I think this is an opportunity to turn our eyes on Jesus and not on “grate organization” and men strategies to spread the gospel. I believe YWAM has a lot of practices and teachings that are not from the bible like the healing therapies and confessions of sin in public. As you say we need to reestablish a direct relationship with God and stop trusting in people before we consult the lord trough the holy spirit.
I did a DTS long ago and think I know what you are talking about.
You are doing a favor to ywam because eventually after there is a critical mass of stories this will cause change
Also another question, did you take your concerns to higher leadership then just school leaders?
Yes. We took our concerns to multiple people in senior leadership but we were told either that everything was our fault or that we just didn’t fully understand God’s love for us which was entirely dismissive and made me feel completely helpless. I reached out to someone in leadership even months after I left YWAM to try to have a conversation about what actually went down and I was still gaslit and told to “forget and forgive”. Our team was told on multiple occasions (which I have recorded evidence of) that since outreach was in the past, there was nothing that could be done about it and we would have to come to terms with the way things were on our own. I only ever received any kind of apology or recognition of fault after I made this video public, which was 6 months too late. Our only reason for bringing up our concerns in the first place was to protect future students from having to experience anything that we went through, but 6 months later was too late for many of them. I’m diagnosed with PTSD and will be on medication for the rest of my life. I just don’t think anyone deserves this and if it were up to me I’d make sure it never happens again.
Good for you for posting this, Abby! I concur.
what I can't wrap my head around with is, what is the abuse people are talking about here.. is it that ywam forces you to believe their doctrine? well if that's the case i think you signed up for it. the school teaches what it has to offer I think it's up to you whether or not you believe in it.. my sister graduated earlier this march... I can see how much she's grown and how amazingly she can hear the Lord now.. I'm planning on doing it too, praying for where should I do it..
The abuse people are referring makes a long list, which is all mentioned in detail in the article in the description of the video. It's been best broken down by famous psychologist Robert J. Lifton in his often used and well known 8 points of "thought reform" You can easily research these on your own to see how YWAM aligns with many and in some cases, all of these points. Thought reform is a tactic used by cult leaders, or in some cases authoritarian leaders, to manipulation and even brainwash those beneath them. Many of the behaviors of YWAM staff are classic forms of emotional and mental abuse, gaslighting being extremely common. These forms of abuse are harder to recognize than physical abuse because of their sometimes more subtle nature. Psychology Today lists some examples of emotional abuse as being "opposing (overuse of the word "no", even when one asks simple questions), blocking , discounting or belittling (effectively making you question the importance of your own thoughts and feelings and exchanging them for unearned trust in those who often don't deserve it), denying (agreements/promises- your word against theirs). And the list goes on and on. Many have also been physically abused by being overworked like dogs (to the point of complete physical exhaustion and even hospitalization), denied access to healthcare when sick, underfed or not provided for appropriately, and being put in extremely physically dangerous situations in underdeveloped countries, even when not necessary, because of staff with little integrity. These are all stories I've heard countless examples of and some I've experienced myself, just to name a few that came to mind.
I consider it a problem when church leaders take your phone away from you, so that you can't call your parents when something goes wrong, and then belittle you when you dare to challenge them, when they aren't standing on the actual Word of God, but instead, on "words" or "impressions" that are alleged to be from God but are not found directly in the Bible. I consider it a problem when leaders belittle those who try to point out what's wrong and might even prevent them from leaving the group's campus. I consider it a problem when leaders do not provide adequate rest, nutrition, access to toilets or bathing and even go as far as denying needed medical attention to sick members. When adequate food, potable water, sanitation and medical care are denied and people are not allowed to leave, it gets harder for me to distinguish between the group and a Gulag (or evangelism - / labor-based, generally non-fatal concentration camp).
@@lyndagruen2047 i couldn't agree more on that 'denying medical attention' part, they're really going out there and encouraging people to just pray instead of going to the doctors.. well why not pray and go to the doctor too..?
the fact that it's growing larger here in my country where they do these schools illegally is just nerve wracking
You cant be a "christian your whole life" there must be a point of new birth. A time of understanding and repentence and experiencing Gods forgiveness.
thank you for your story abby
Religion was invented when the first conman found the first fool
Hi! How can a family member of someone interested (or perhaps even dead set) on going to a DTS + outreach trip help them reconsider their plans?
First of all, know that you can't change their mind. They have to do that themselves. And know that whatever happens, you are not to blame. I would encourage the person to do as much research as they can before commiting, so that they are making the most informed decision possible. But at the end of the day if they still decide to go, all you can do is be there for them. The MOST important thing is that you never come off as judgmental and let them know you support them no matter what, despite your concerns, because then in the event that (God forbid) things are to go south, they will know they can go to you for help, rather than feel ashamed or embarrassed or worried you'll say "I told you so". You can also help them research better alternatives so that they don't feel like it"s YWAM or nothing. The main reason a young person might become dead set on YWAM, despite there being better organizations out there, is because YWAM offers a very appealing version of short term missions. A lot of other places are run by much older people who are just less in touch with our generation, but YWAM communication teams and media/marketing is mostly run by young people themselves, and this is absolutely by design. YWAM is actually very good at their marketing, as can be seen by their elaborate websites with eye catching photos of "youth just like you! doing fun and exciting things in gorgeous landscapes around the world". Maybe help them to understand that these photos not only represent a very small percent of what DTS actually is, but they can also be misleading in the sense that when those photos are taken, they do not show the whole picture of what is going on. They do not show the hunger, pain, fear, heartache, confusion, frustration etc that those people in those photos might also be feeling. There are many, many photos of me from my DTS, including the one in the thumbnail of this video and the other two, where I look very happy and anyone who knew me back home might have seen those and thought so. But looking at them now and remembering exactly what I was really thinking and feeling when those photos were taken, is a whole different story. YWAM tries to sell missions as an adventure, which targets the restless feeling most young people, especially straight of high school, are feeling. This is probably what your person is feeling. That's what I felt- a desperation to get away from home and go do something exciting and meaningful. That feeling isn't going away until it's been quenched, but YWAM is not the way out. It makes a lot of empty promises and in the end I felt I'd done more harm than good to both myself and to the people I was supposedly "helping".
They will do what they want to do. The best thing is to explain that you have heard that people have been hurt through YWAM and that their Theology is dodgy. Teach them good Theology and to be alert and trust their instincts if they think things they are taught don't ring true. Teach them about control and manipulation... so they will recognise it. Dr Henry Cloud's teaching is great. He has a lot online. Also his book 'safe People' is great for seeing the warning signs of people who are not safe and controlling. He also explains what safe people look like. Tell them that there is noo shame in coming home to you and/or talking to you if things get 'weird'.
It's difficult to do. I came from a YWAM-influenced cultic church - not YWAM directly, but our mentality was very similar, from what I gather. I'd say to request that they consider other mission organizations, too; that they consider the perspectives of ex-members alleging abuse; and that they'd please focus on what the Bible says, if what leaders say or do conflicts with that. Most importantly, I would say: ask them to please take a phone with them and to please check in with you on a regular basis, as a means of honoring family members (preferably, parents). Let them know that you'll do what you can to help them if anything goes wrong, but that you would have to know about any problems that would come up, because you won't be able to help until then.
I did YWAM, my outreach was going to India, it was a nightmare walking through those Hindu temples and other dark places.
I almost did my DTS is India, I'm so thankful I didn't. I've heard India is the worst place for outreach. I've also heard of people ending up in mental hospitals from their outreach to India. You don't hear things like this from people who simply visit as tourists, which tells me it's about more than just the country. I still hope to visit India one day, but not with YWAM.
@@abbytownsend7739 Trust me, going to India with YWAM is the worst.
@@BadEconomyOfficial why though? because it pulls you out of your comfort zone? i want genuine answers tbh.. im planning on doing the dts and this video shows up..
Hi, sorry to just now be seeing your comment. Please email me so that I can send you the resources I have on this topic, which you might find helpful.
@@abbytownsend7739 sure whats your id tho?
I️ had to listen on 2X speed to tolerate it. Jesus died in my place was buried & raised from dead. Abby never said this once. Her faith, Christianity, experience sounds like her story, but she doesn’t lean into Jesus
Thank you for sharing your story Abby ❤️
I don't know how anyone can make it through this video.....
If you ever become born again, you will be able to as well. Like all of us, God’s children.
During your outreach you didn't know what truth to preach? You also mentioned you didn't know what truth? I'm not a ywammer but you believe in Jesus Christ right? so preach Jesus! :) Preach why you choose Jesus. Preach why you love Jesus. I know this video was posted 2019. I hope you're in a better place today. Praying for you love.
Miller Frank Robinson Betty Harris Maria
Jesus Commands that we forgive.
If you don't forgive, it's no heaven for you.
Heaven sounds overrated anyway 🥱
There are good bases and bad bases the base I was at wasn’t good they taught world government which is not what the Bible teaches it all seems very familiar with what you went through my friends and I went through the same things with leaders
In my personal opinion there are bad bases and worse bases. I say they're all bad because they are all part of a pyramid scheme and authoritarian leadership with the same basic dangerous teachings. I've not yet hear of one base that did not have it's own set of issues. Even from the base I was told to be the "healthiest", I have spoken to people who say they were deeply wounded there as well. Not everyone will have that experience, but no base is immune as long as the structure stays the same.
I really hope this isn't an excuse allowing you to be less than he is. You were created to bear His image so don't let what people have done or said rob you of that.
Gusikowski Villages
My friends have been with YWAM for decades and have led thousands to Christ, helped people out of human trafficking, fed the poor, ministered to hundreds and hundreds of refugees, built a ministry center and trained others in health care and evangelism.
So basically what you’re saying is, the ends justify the means. Who cares if thousands of kids are traumatized in the process or abused daily? Who cares if 100s (maybe 1,000s, we’ll never really know because YWAM will always sweep it under the rug) of students try to commit suicide after their DTS? Who cares if there is corruption and misuse of finances. Who cares if leadership has time after time ignored cries for help from students who have been physically and sexually assaulted by unqualified and emotionally immature staff because the only qualifications are a completed DTS which requires practically no qualifications, not even a GED or background check. Who cares if 100,000s of people will spend the rest of their lives with nightmares, flashbacks, panic attacks and everything else that comes along with PTSD, which is an incurable condition? I hate to break it to you, but your friends didn’t do a sliver of the things they claimed to do in YWAM. We were encouraged to fabricate the stats. I know people who were in YWAM for a dozen years and never saw a single person converted. I was only there for 6 months and couldn’t name you one single thing we did that actually benefited anyone. We took jobs away from people who needed them, we gave impoverished children attachment issues, and we further enforced harmful religious practices in communities that were deeply legalistic. No one is set free by YWAM.
The audio is extremely low. Can you raise it up a bit?
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Could you turn your audio down more? I can still hear you.
therapist here...you don't need therapy you need the Lord. I'm praying for you.
You're very beautiful btw. xo
what kind of therapist tells someone they don't need therapy? Everyone can benefit from therapy!
Just no. What a dumb comment.
Whether or not you are a therapist, I don't know. This much I do know: it is Christ-like to expose abuse and hold abusive leaders accountable.
You need counseling
I’ve mentioned elsewhere in the comments that I have received therapy. In fact, I was in Christian counseling at the time that I made this video and switched to EMDR for several months after.
Our best and only true counselor is God Almighty! Jesus Christ heals all wounds, when we come to Him properly and ask Him for healing.
In true and deep repentance, with broken, humble and contrite heart.
No therapy nor any psychiatric medications have EVER helped me. But He did! Complete and comprehensive healing forever!
Praise Jesus Christ our Lord!!! HalleluYah!