There's Hope For (some) ENEL X Way Customers In North America After All! Here's What To Do
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ต.ค. 2024
- I discuss the implications and solutions to ENEL X Way's announcement that it's shutting down its North American business operations with Zak Lefevre, CEO and co-founder of Chargelab, Michael Bakunin, CEO and co-founder of Epic Charging, and Gleb Nikiforov, CEO and founder of United Chargers.
Visit the Chargelab website: chargelab.co/
Visit the Epic Charging website: epiccharging.com/
Visit the United Chargers website: unitedchargers...
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State of charge is always first to provide the valuable information needed and gathers the professionals in the industry. Thanks for everything you do!
Let 'em have it Tom! You're completely right.
My city, Mt.Vernon, WA, just installed 72 level 2 juicebox commercial chargers and 2 dc chargers, the largest install in the country apparently. I emailed the mayors office about what they would do to get them going and offered chargelab as a suggestion. They emailed me back saying they were already working with them, so hopefully all that brand new equipment isn't bricked.
@@aaronhodgman It seems as if Enel-x would be facing legal jeopardy selling equipment that they knew would soon be nonfunctional. This should prove interesting.
Good luck....
It's one more reason we need a broadly defined "right the repair law". That would outlaw this type of outrageous behavior by an economically viable company, who just wants to cut their losses. But until then Caveat Emptor applies, so every buyer will have to determine on their own, factors such as OCPP compliance.
Tom, after this incident. I hope the future EVSE testing on this channel will be expanded to include Chargelab OCPP compatibility testing and a Chargelab link to get more detailed information. And your own independent OCPP testing to show how easy or complicated it is, would be nice too. To make this egregious situation less likely in the future for future EVSE buyers. Good luck reorganizing the testing to address the situation.
It would also be useful to know if open source or proprietary hardware was used. With some kind of rating system. So even if a company went bankrupt, it still would be repairable. We do need some "right to repair laws" too.
Thanks for pushing this subject Tom, great work! It's appreciated.
Tom, might you be able to get a Chargepoint comment on its OCPP support?
Yeah the pressure should be on them, if chargepoint goes down EV industry could be truly rekt
I've just recently entered the EV world and inquired with Emporia about any intentions to allow 3rd party apps. I haven't even got it installed yet but this recent market action has really opened my eyes to even more that we as consumers take for granted with these tew technologies. Thanks all for taking the initiative here and offering quality content.
OpenEVSE is open sourced for hardware and software. And there's past review of it on this channel. It's more suitable for those that are technically oriented. Good luck, finding what's appropriate for you.
If you haven't already done so, contact your state's Attorney General's office. Especially if you're in a large state like CA or NY, since they have the resources to bring consequential legal action against Enel X NA and its parent corporation. Remember, states were recommending this equipment to customers and paying out (millions?) in incentives, so they're aggrieved parties just like other parties that bought this equipment.
What kind of resources can they bring to bear? If CA were a country, it would be the 5th largest economy on the planet. NY would be in 10th place. Both are larger economies than Italy and definitely larger than Enel's legal department. I'd be surprised if lawsuits aren't already being hammered out.
At the very least, they could get court actions (injunctions?) to prevent the servers from being switched off & ordering those already switch off to be turned back on so folk have time to migrate their equipment to OCPP.
We’ve been working with our software partners to help commercial customers impacted by Enel X closing as well. It’s great to see so many EV charging companies coming to rescue these stations!
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you all for coming together to solve this FUBAR situation created by ENAL X Way.
It's already sounded as it is ANAL -X now.
Thank You Everybody for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste
🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤
Don’t hold back, Tom. Tell us what you really think.
Thank goodness on your recommendation I purchased an Emporia charger. Gr8 vid as usual.🚗🇺🇸🔌⚡
Impressive guests and kudos to them and you Tom. Hope this will be made into a continuing series. Until ENEL X Way supplies complete satisfaction to its past customers in North America or there's a court case to provide restitution for those customers.
And I hope the companies and individuals in the post will continue to help in the mitigation process. That'll make it eventually a simple turnkey process to switch vendors.
Thanks for doing this and giving us a LOT of hope. If you migrate your end-user chargers, please let us know how it goes.
Hopefully this works out especially for the commercial equipment holders.
I don’t recall if actual OCPP compliance is part of your charger rater, but I bet it is now! Great panel! You really are the goat Tom!
BC Hydro in Canada has already posted on their website that they will provide a $250 rebate for any of their electricity customers that will buy a second smart charger to replace their Enel X Juicebox charger! They previously provided a $350 rebate for any residential customer that installed a Enel X JuiceBox home charger.
Drop out of the market as you stated, perfectly, scares the crap out of everyone. I just became an EV driver last fall and did my research and most public energy companies around USA will not accept a Tesla wall charger because it has to be Wi-Fi as you said so they can control timings and voltage of the charging they give you a discount for charging overnight. I am so glad you are doing this and focusing on this and I’m glad you’re as frustrated as the hundred thousand plus. Because yes, 100,000 are directly affected as they said in Canada USA you could easily add another 100,000 or part of that 100,000 so 150,000 total because there’s 50,000 Tesla people who don’t use a Tesla wall charger because they want to get a great discount from their power company. Thank you so much. I love your channel. I’ve been watching it since last summer.
Not everybody hates regulations blindly as some political ideologies would wish us to do. I prefer regulators trying to ensure that my food, water, pharmaceuticals, environment, transportation (airlines, shipping, and automobiles) were safe for me and my family. (Yes I concede that there are certainly regulations that are a pain and don’t accomplish anything. Inappropriate regulations should be removed or corrected).
Regulators love to exert arbitrary power and control so often that it's little wonder that many don't trust them with their legitimate roles.
Regulators love to arbitrarily exert power and control, so it's little wonder than many are frustrated when they step outside their legitimate role.
I am wondering if any of these companies would be willing to offer trade in credit for juicebox owners, at least the commercial customers. This would give them huge sales, and would allow for central collection of these units to reconfigure them at a facility instead of out in the field. (More cost effective)
These reconfigured/refurbished chargers could then be sold to municipalities at a lower cost or part of a program to help ev adoption for lower income people.
Looks like someone, maybe you Tom, add to their reviews whether the charger hardware/software is truly OCDB compliant.
Tom, you might want to add this to your reviews of EV chargers moving forward, whether the software is open source.
Smart Charge America is offering FREE rip & replacement services for those affected by this shutdown. Together we will win!
Thank you for taking on this topic. I've been disappointed with the Enel X Way software since day one. My consumer Juicebox has always been very difficult to connect to a server and has had outdated security support. I'll not buy another of their their products again.
Hey Tom, do a video on your Enel Juicebox getting migrated. Many of us are very interested.
I've seen a lot of out of service chargers all around FL. Complete full DC chargers with CHAdeMO completely abandoned.
Got the email from Enel X this afternoon about a new route they’re taking. I do like my OG Juicebox web interface.
Hi Tom! My electric utility (JCP&L in NJ (First Energy)) sent emails out today to customers in their "EV Driven" rate discount program, saying the JuiceBox owners will no longer get the discounted rate. It seems they are unaware of the last-minute continuation of JuiceNet? I can send you the email or screenshot, but attachments are not allowed in these comments. I'll try X.
In my area, the local utility said they are enabling Telematics for my Leaf. Also, they said I could get another smart charger on their approved list and get a rebate to pay for it.
Thanks for this Tom! I am in no way affected by this, in fact, I live in Europe and I don't even own a BEV (however drive and charge publicly plenty with rentals...). But hearing this and your previous video on it makes my blood boil. Rest asure that I will avoid anyrhing that has the Enel brand attached to it in the future!. A quick check tells me they have operations in the UK....
On a lighter note, I can't find the link of you putting the Ford EV charger through its paces, can you please direct me
Who would work with, or buy any, Enel product or service in the future.?
Do you know if the customers are doing a class action suite? They should.
Question: how can we avoid this kind of fiasco in the future? How can a buyer choose a charger, if the manufacturer can just up and leave them high and dry? Should we be contacting our elected officials?
Tom, I can't find much in the way of you reviewing Level 1 chargers. While I've seen a lot of your videos where you test and recommend Level 2 but Level 1 just doesn't seem to get much attention. Many people have good access to 120V 15A charging but for whatever reason, lack the wiring/resources/needed to reach Level 2.
How about you review a few Level 1 EVSE?
My story is with a Vevor Level 1+2. I wasn't satisfied with 120V/10A charging so upped the amps to 13A. Then, I wasn't happy with some extra warmth in the wiring. I upgraded a dedicated circuit to 120V/20A using properly rated wiring and receptacle. Now all of the wiring/cables/receptacles/fuse run cool. I also tried the upgrade at 120V/16A but it was too warm for long term use.
I was winging most of this because Level 1 is poorly covered, even at 120V/10A. I still don't know if this EVSE has good quality cables or component parts.
If you have a dedicated circuit serving a single outlet at 120V, that can easily be changed to 240, just need to change the breaker to a dual pole. Then you could use a NEMA 6-20 receptacle.
As for the chargers, I don't love those cheap chargers, Vevor included. They're not UL or safety certified. They say "ETL compliant" which doesn't mean much. Unfortunately the best 120/240V charger is Tesla's mobile connector. All the plugs have thermal sensors to derate or shut off if the plug/receptacle gets too warm. Plus you can get the plug end for just about every outlet type there is. If you don't have a Tesla car, you'll have to get an adapter which will add to the price.
The Grizzl-e mini isn't a bad choice either, the awesome thing about that is it has dip switches to limit the max current to 16A if you do change the outlet to 240V as it doesn't come with a NEMA 6-20 adapter. --- EDIT --- The Mini Connect you can software adjust by single amp increments down to 7A, which is pretty dang cool. Literally even. But the dip switch will still hard limit, so if you set DIP to 16A, software to 12 and something happens with the software, you're not in dangerous territory on a 20A circuit.
Commercial users already pay for the service, and have a revenue stream.
The utilities pay for the service, and gain monitoring and control to justify paying for it.
Residential users don't provide a revenue stream, unless some middleman wants to aggregate the users as a Demand Response Virtual Battery.
Do residential users want to subscribe to an OCPP server at a monthly fee?
Excellent report. As a small CPO, I’ve reached out to ChargeLabs and Epic for migration for my commercial Juicebox chargers. Does their migration process operate 100% remotely or is some local technical work required at each commercial site?
Charge labs said it is an on-site process that take 15 to 30 minutes for each unit.
@@markrichards9792 Wow, if you have 40 chargers, that’s a lot of work? But, it’s more work & expense to replace them.
The process to migrate to a new charging network is part on site and part remote, feel free to reach out to us for a quote as well. Would love to help you out!
On another youtube channel it's simply stated that if you have a level 2 charger at home and your ev can control it's charging rate (Tesla) the JuiceBox still works as a dumb charger.
Tom stated this in the previous video.
@@jamesengland7461 I mentioned it again here
So are Chargepoint home stations OCPP compliant?
When we lose the WiFi connection to our hardwared 48 amp (60 amp breaker) 11.5 KWh ChargePoint Home Flex smart charger it reverts to being a 16 amp (20 amp breaker) 3.8 KWh dumb charger, is that how a JuiceBox will respond?
Residential JuiceBoxes should permanently remember the last used charging rate.
There are two exceptions.
Anyone using Load Balancing (Zak called it Energy Management) will revert to 8 amps if the server is lost.
Commercial units will likely go to zero amps (which prevents someone from charging for free by deliberately interrupting the network).
it's shocking any EVSE (at least for residential versions), requires Wi-Fi and/or an app to change a charging rate beyond what the default setting is....
It should be able to be done on a display panel or dip switches....
In Tom's EVSE testing, this should be a test criteria. IMHO
@@ClarenceDold Instead of Wi-Fi one firm/company uses tokens transmitted via their smartphones app... With no internet connection required during the charging session.... The token/ transaction gets transmitted the next time the phone is connected to the internet....
And it's not just for one transaction.... So if somebody would throw away their smartphone they would still end up getting charged, for their charging session.... Because their transaction would be transmitted by a different smartphone... It's similar to blockchain.... I just can't remember the name of the firm/company???
Kept trying to think of flaws for the system but about the only one i could think of is that it's not based on open source software. So if the company went bankrupt Or just turned off their servers like in this case, users would be in a similar situation.
I wish I was better with names, I just remember this process, because it was so innovative.
But my main point is Wi-Fi is not In necessity, even for commercial charging.
I returned my Juicebox I bought 3 years ago from Costco for full price refund. Love Costco for their customer satisfaction return policy.
Just received this email from JCPL in New Jersey.:
Dear EV Driven Customer,
Enel X Way USA, LLC (Enel X) has closed its electric mobility business in the US and Canada, effective October 11, 2024. As a result, Jersey Central Power & Light Company (JCP&L) will no longer accept EV Driven Program applications that include chargers operating on the Enel X network (i.e., JuiceBox, Enel X branded chargers), effective October 4, 2024.
Due to Enel X’s decision, data will no longer be transmitted from Enel X chargers and chargers operating on the JuiceNet network. Therefore, these chargers are not eligible for JCP&L rebates or rate credits.
Where is the migration video Michael talks about at 21:43? I've check Epic Charging's website, TH-cam channel and Twitter feed and I don't see it...
Please contact the company directly with any questions
that's awesome!!!
Are you going to add 0CPP compatibility to your reviews
OCPP compatibility is already, included in the EVSE reviews.
But I hope it's expanded to include Chargelab OCPP compatibility testing and a Chargelab link to get more detailed information. And Tom's own independent testing would be nice too,. Since previous reviews I believe were based on information from the supplier, which is not really sufficient IMHO with my 20/20 hindsight.
Any law firms out there that want to help out these customers?
That was kind of my initial thought.
But they are slowly doing the right thing. Apparently to mitigate the bad press that they are getting from this.
So there might not be much grounds left, for a law firm to sue?
@@nc3826 When drivers encounter a broken public charger they often find another place to charge and don't go back. That's long term damage to the business.
In Europe, if JuiceBox is OCPP-compliant, is that relying on the same OCP sleight of hand using the Enel servers as is done in the US, or are the European JuiceBoxes different from the US JuiceBoxes?
JuiceBox is not very widespread in Europe. It operates in only a few markets. So it is possible that each of these operations has dedicated servers/cloud from a different provider to be close (latency/connectivity stability) to customers in that country. Hardware-wise they are quite different as they have 22kW 3-phase output with local LTE frequencies.
@@Dqtube Ah, right. I forgot that the Enel boxes that vaguely resemble JuiceBoxes are different hardware.
I saw a map with a bunch of Enel endpoints on it in Europe. Maybe that included their DC presences, too. I forget where I saw the map.
@@ClarenceDold In other countries, they can work just like charging providers without hardware. This style of charging roaming is very popular in Europe. For example, Kia or BMW (other brands probably do too, but I don't follow them) provide access to over 700,000 public chargers across Europe in their app. So you don't have to download and register different apps for each charging station provider. A similar solution is run for example by Shell ( the big oil company), so it is possible that Enel has it too.
Really, a class action suit is brewing. And maybe an investigation by legal authorities.
get an evcc installation and use that as ocpp charger for surplus charging with solar power.
evcc is open source mad in germany and requires a raspberry pi
that is it.
What happens the to WIFI connection to my utility company for TOU rates?
As a JuiceBox 40 owner who is using the charger's scheduled charging to manage multiple EVs with my utility's TOU plan - this is infuriating. I will be buying a Tesla universal charger to replace the JuiceBox -$600 I didn't intend on spending. I will stay FAR away from anything Enel touches and will be encouraging others to do the same. Burning customers without a second thought has repercussions.
Let’s see if tomorrow (10/11/24) my Juicebox becomes a dumb charger. If it does I’ll contact my utility company as to the status of the off peak charging rebate program. Someone at JCPL must be aware of this situation?
Enel X seems to be cut from the same crooked cloth as Stellantis. Time to stop giving Italian industry a free pass in things automotive.
I think the US is not going to see any shift anytime soon. You often talk about ChargePoint, but it's not the biggest elonphant in the room that uses a proprietary solution.
Any plans to review BMW flexible fast charger? BMW is selling a lot of EVs that include this EVSE.
Not really. The OEM chargers are rarely as good or as inexpensive as 3rd party units. There are exceptions, but I don't put the BMW unit in that category.
Should've bought a Chargepoint😢
Hey @tom.moloughney a few hurcanne topics I think you should cover:
1) I see in Florida there are a lot of gas stations running out of gas. I know in NJ (where we both live) that was also the case during hurricane Sandy. How are the Tesla and CCS chargers holding up in Florida?
2) I’ve read a few things about EV V2L (Type 2) | Vehicle-To-Load plugs running a house overnight and only costing the EV battery 5% of charge. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.
Are there fees required after charger install at a home?
Interoperability.
Use Tesla Superchargers for comparison.