Ah, the memories. In 1978, a Parker 51 taught me the hard way that denim blue jeans pockets exert impressive force. Broke it in two. Finally mustered the nerve to get another good fountain pen in 1986 (some lovely Schaeffer), and discovered that the (then independent) shoulder belts in cars could hook and flip out one's pen onto the parking lot to be unnoticed and lost. The Cross classic I got in 1995 (once again courage) I still use. Such a fine writer. If it finally breaks, I will salvage the nib. As to the Jinhao 51A. Good for them! What a splendid pen one could lose, and then replace it with another, or a better. I have a Wing Sung 601A vacuumatic (exposed nib) that writes beautifully. Good for Parker for leaving the tools behind! The Chinese actually will use them. All that said, if it weren't that I'm married to a practical person, I'd have more pens than I could store, so the above losses weren't fatal to continuing to collect writing with fountain pens. Thank you, by the way, for sharing your engineering expertise. It encourages me not to give up on pens that deserve a better chance.
The threads depend on the version of the 51a. The acrylic barrel ones have metal to acrylic threads. The all plastic version has plastic to plastic threads, but seems of lower quality in general. The wooden barrel version has metal to metal threads, and seems to me the best version.
If my understanding of the situation is correct, Parker built a pen factory in China. Then they had second thoughts and pulled out. However, I believe they left all of the tools etc. China started making their own pens using the Parker facilities. So, the 'problem' of clones (if it is a problem) is mostly of Parker's own making. I found your explanation of thread quality very interesting and rather shocking in the case of the expensive Momento Zero model. Looking at the debris in the threads of that pen makes me think it will have a shortened life.
Oh wow thanks for the info David. I had no idea about the history of Parker being in China. I am by no means knowledgeable about the history of pens & various brands. Have been only around fountain pens for maybe 3 yrs. I love getting comments to learn more & for other people to hear as well. Thanks again for your input 👍
@@Doodlebud I believe Parker gave their would-be partners permission to make Parker pens, though without the Parker name, of course. This was before China became 'open for business.'
As far as I know, Hero copied Parker from the start(1930s). They cloned the Parker 51 in 1961(Hero 616). And with the country been all closed to the outside world from 1949 to 1978, it's impossible for Parker to even consider openning a factory in China back then. If the Parker factory incident did happen it would be after 1978 which by then the clones already exist
Best pen ever. Even at 8 bucks its a steal. EF nib writes like medium but held upside down it produces a fine line with great feedback. The Jinhao 51A is only pen I use for Spencerian letterwriting.
thanks for the detailed comparisons of both pens and especially the tip regarding paying attention to the threads( wear and tear considerations). They both appear almost identical in the writing (Output) and wetness.
Dont know if anyone cares but if you're bored like me atm you can stream all the new movies and series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my gf for the last couple of days :)
Personally when I have that kind of problem (plastic threads vs metal ones) I try to put Teflon tape on the threads . If it works, it helps in expanding the life of the threads and also improves on joint security as it will work under tighter tolerances. Hope it helps!
That blue 51 is gorgeous! Have you ever thought of comparing the Parker to the Wing Sung 601, which is almost a direct clone of the Parker Vacumatic 51 (with some improvements)? It's an inexpensive pen, but not a super cheapie like the Jinhao 51A. Various Chinese brands have been using Parker 51 elements in their pen designs for decades (famously the Hero 100 and its many imitations), but the Wing Sung 601 is the closest that I know of and the only one with a vacumatic-style filling system.
Fantastic coverage of the Plastic on Metal issue. I have the exact Leo MZ and the amount of "dust" from the blind cap has concerned me from the start as well. Consequently, I don't fill the pen that way. As an engineer, do you think that lubricating those threads would extend the lifespan? I have used silicone grease in a few, special situations and now I am wondering if there might not be some benefit here, too.
I have three of the Hero 616s. They have the aerometric filling system and they're pretty close to the Parker 51. I may get one of the old Parker 51s one day.
Nice job, Doodlebud. The Jinhao 51a comes with a standard nib, too, and the threads are plastic. Looks like just the hooded nib version is metal on plastic. Hmmm? The qc issues you pointed out are present on my hooded nib 51a. It writes very nicely with a mini fude nib. If Jinaho were to match Parker's quality, I wonder what the pen would cost? $10, $20? Thanks.
I've gone a different route and tried a Parker 21 - but the Jinhao 51a is in the mail - so far I really like the Parker 21 - and much cheaper than a Parker 51!
I dont want "the real deal." My fountain pen pouch is filled with 5 low-cost pens, and im happy with them. From Amazon 1) Parker Jotter 2) Jinhao x750 3) Pilot Metropolitan From Temu 4) 530 classical wood 5) Chinese style Qinglong Baihu Suzaku The Qinglong pen looks like a lamy pen but with a Chinese White Tiger. I love it.
I can't afford a Parker, but I got a 5 pack of the Jinho for $15 I use as a work pen. Use it in the field, marketing everything that i need to mark, the first one for work now for about 18 months and is now starting to have fits. Remember I use this to mark wood, plastic, metal, what ever. Good work pen that I don't need to care about much.
The Jinhao 51 is a really great bang for the buck. And if it's taking the beating you're giving it, 18mo is pretty good. If you said you used your Parker 51 on metal people would lose their MINDS 😂. But for $6, it's pretty damn good 👍
I have Jinhao 51A rosewood fountain pen. ❤ I like it very much. It writes smooth and don't miss a single chance to write with this beautiful pen. Absolutely nice. Love from India 🇮🇳
Hey Doodlebud,I have a Jinhao 51A with an ebony barrel and that‘s very soft as the black piano keys or a clarinet.The Jin writes very well so that i exchanged him against my german representatives Lamy2000,Kaweco Liliput ,Pelikan M200,M80,Pelikan Silvexa M20. Put in a Lamy blue Ink Cartridge not royal blue …normal blue and you have the same enlightenment as i,you do not exchange it anymore. Many love greetings from Germany to Canada Helmut
Great video Doodlebud, even if you did include a Jinhao ;=) . Never tried a Parker 51, maybe someday. So far, I'm in love with my Pilot 823 "M" ~ Smoke. Writes so good, so smooth, and so effortlessly. Of course, you could buy about 48 Jinhaos for the cost of an 823... .
Hey doodlebud , you should send your feedback about your momento zero to the folks at Leonardo. They’re supposed to stand behind their product quality - hence the price tag! I’m sure they’d appreciate the feedback from an engineer if nothing else.
@@Doodlebud yeah I know! They don’t really have an official website that I can find.. maybe send them a private message via their Facebook or Instagram pages? Apparently they manufacture out of a shared facility called Oromare in Naples. The facility has several other luxury goods manufacturers that work with precious metals, polished stones etc. so they don’t have an official headquarters per se. They have been known to gift pens to at least one you-tuber (sbre brown). I’m sure they would appreciate the feedback nevertheless.
@@Doodlebud check with your fellow Canadian, Doug Rathbun. He had a bad nib experience with his MZ and has been contacted directly by the owner who more than resolved his nib issue.
There's nothing like a balanced and unbiased review, is there. And this is nothing like an unbiased review, is it. I own a Parker 51, and have done for decades. A perfect pen, an old friend. I also have a Jinhao 51A, that no one could confuse with the Parker. Have had it for a number of years. A perfect pen. But of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating. How does it write. Sorry, but if your writing sample is anything to go, I wouldn't waste your money on an expensive pen. Stick to a 6 buck jobbie. Or maybe go back to a BIC ballpoint. (Incidentally, the nib section on my 51a has a plastic thread, and fits perfectly). I also have a Hero 616, another perfect Chinese pen. And again, about 3% of the cost of a Parker 51.
My OPINION is Jinhao = junk, and I don't waste even $5.00 on junk. Of course, you can comment on Doodlebud's writing sample, but if you're going to badmouth his, and you want to be fair, there are a lot more folks out in TH-cam land who write (?) way worst then this gentleman. fahsfbds...
@@strshooter7399 I agree with you entirely. There are many as bad as this guy when it comes to handwriting. I would go as far as to say most who do so called "fountain pen reviews"- including this guy- have handwriting that could not even be described as handwriting. While of course when it comes to the aesthetics of pens we are all entitled to our opinions, how on earth could we possibly put any credence on the ability of a pen to write (it's only purpose for existing) when the reviewer hasn't even bothered to master the basics of handwriting. After all, one would hardly put any value on a book review, if the reviewer couldn't read.
Edward, you must have misunderstood... I don't think Doodlbud's handwriting is bad at all. 99% of all of us can improve our handwriting skills. It's your attitude toward his review that leaves me shaking my head. There's just no cause in a fountain pen review to take that tone.
@@edwardwhite2441 I must admit, I have felt this way for a long time. The only way you can evaluate how good a pen really is, is to see a good handwriting example. Not just a load of scribbles!
Yeah this guy is so biased, trying to make it look like the Parker is such a much better pen, and coming up with nonsense like plastic on metal is worse. Pretty pathetic tbh
If you're going to criticize China for copying a design then you should be willing to point that criticism of Western pen makers who have also been guilty of copying. Otherwise it's hypocrisy. The bit about the threads was interesting. The rest clearly show your bias, particularly when your critique is between $100+ vintage pen and a $5 Chinese pen - who is really surprised that there is a difference in build quality? Really.
@@davyj5216 Your guess is wrong, but I imagine that was an attempt at an insult. Sorry to have upset you about your two year old, poorly supported statements.
@@mgscheue Says the guy who commented on a two year old thread with clear inability to parse the statement correctly. Well done. And no, it wasn't an insult, it was a guess based on two things - your surname (which doesn't look English) and your lack of comprehension skills. Given a lack of other data it was a reasonable guess. It doesn't upset me if that guess is inaccurate. I am more concerned with seeing poor English comprehension to be honest. The 'who' in 'who is really surprised... ' encompasses everyone, as in 'who (in the world) would be really surprised by a difference in quality...' Free lesson, you are welcome.
@@davyj5216 Save your concern for your own emotional and cognitive issues, Mr. J (Is “J” an English surname? Because clearly only people with “English-looking” surnames can be native English speakers). Have a nice day getting your panties twisted and seeing who you can impress with that bluster.
Ah, the memories. In 1978, a Parker 51 taught me the hard way that denim blue jeans pockets exert impressive force. Broke it in two. Finally mustered the nerve to get another good fountain pen in 1986 (some lovely Schaeffer), and discovered that the (then independent) shoulder belts in cars could hook and flip out one's pen onto the parking lot to be unnoticed and lost. The Cross classic I got in 1995 (once again courage) I still use. Such a fine writer. If it finally breaks, I will salvage the nib.
As to the Jinhao 51A. Good for them! What a splendid pen one could lose, and then replace it with another, or a better. I have a Wing Sung 601A vacuumatic (exposed nib) that writes beautifully. Good for Parker for leaving the tools behind! The Chinese actually will use them.
All that said, if it weren't that I'm married to a practical person, I'd have more pens than I could store, so the above losses weren't fatal to continuing to collect writing with fountain pens. Thank you, by the way, for sharing your engineering expertise. It encourages me not to give up on pens that deserve a better chance.
The threads depend on the version of the 51a. The acrylic barrel ones have metal to acrylic threads. The all plastic version has plastic to plastic threads, but seems of lower quality in general. The wooden barrel version has metal to metal threads, and seems to me the best version.
If my understanding of the situation is correct, Parker built a pen factory in China. Then they had second thoughts and pulled out. However, I believe they left all of the tools etc. China started making their own pens using the Parker facilities. So, the 'problem' of clones (if it is a problem) is mostly of Parker's own making. I found your explanation of thread quality very interesting and rather shocking in the case of the expensive Momento Zero model. Looking at the debris in the threads of that pen makes me think it will have a shortened life.
Oh wow thanks for the info David. I had no idea about the history of Parker being in China. I am by no means knowledgeable about the history of pens & various brands. Have been only around fountain pens for maybe 3 yrs. I love getting comments to learn more & for other people to hear as well. Thanks again for your input 👍
@@Doodlebud I believe Parker gave their would-be partners permission to make Parker pens, though without the Parker name, of course. This was before China became 'open for business.'
The factory is owned hero. Jinhao has some sort of relationship with hero
Cuz they left the tools cuz hero did not charger for the 51s they made in China
As far as I know, Hero copied Parker from the start(1930s). They cloned the Parker 51 in 1961(Hero 616). And with the country been all closed to the outside world from 1949 to 1978, it's impossible for Parker to even consider openning a factory in China back then. If the Parker factory incident did happen it would be after 1978 which by then the clones already exist
Loved your discussion on thread design. I'd never thought of that before.
Best pen ever. Even at 8 bucks its a steal. EF nib writes like medium but held upside down it produces a fine line with great feedback. The Jinhao 51A is only pen I use for Spencerian letterwriting.
thanks for the detailed comparisons of both pens and especially the tip regarding paying attention to the threads( wear and tear considerations). They both appear almost identical in the writing (Output) and wetness.
Wing sung make the best P51 clones these days and they have even improved on the filling system.
Well worth a look at for a better comparison.
Dont know if anyone cares but if you're bored like me atm you can stream all the new movies and series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my gf for the last couple of days :)
@Angel Tanner Yea, I've been watching on instaflixxer for since november myself :)
@Angel Tanner yup, have been using InstaFlixxer for since november myself =)
Personally when I have that kind of problem (plastic threads vs metal ones) I try to put Teflon tape on the threads . If it works, it helps in expanding the life of the threads and also improves on joint security as it will work under tighter tolerances.
Hope it helps!
That blue 51 is gorgeous! Have you ever thought of comparing the Parker to the Wing Sung 601, which is almost a direct clone of the Parker Vacumatic 51 (with some improvements)? It's an inexpensive pen, but not a super cheapie like the Jinhao 51A. Various Chinese brands have been using Parker 51 elements in their pen designs for decades (famously the Hero 100 and its many imitations), but the Wing Sung 601 is the closest that I know of and the only one with a vacumatic-style filling system.
I do have a 51 vacumatic I'm restoring right now, so when Im done I can do it VS a 601 to see as well.
Fantastic coverage of the Plastic on Metal issue. I have the exact Leo MZ and the amount of "dust" from the blind cap has concerned me from the start as well. Consequently, I don't fill the pen that way. As an engineer, do you think that lubricating those threads would extend the lifespan? I have used silicone grease in a few, special situations and now I am wondering if there might not be some benefit here, too.
Lubricating them with some silicon grease could probably help reduce friction & wear on the threads
Don't overrighten it...
Great video, great review, thank you. Would like to have both.
I have three of the Hero 616s. They have the aerometric filling system and they're pretty close to the Parker 51. I may get one of the old Parker 51s one day.
i have a crocodile fountain pen 0.38mm but when i made line down its perfect but when i made horizontal the line have some fails
Nice job, Doodlebud. The Jinhao 51a comes with a standard nib, too, and the threads are plastic. Looks like just the hooded nib
version is metal on plastic. Hmmm? The qc issues you pointed out are present on my hooded nib 51a. It writes very nicely with a
mini fude nib. If Jinaho were to match Parker's quality, I wonder what the pen would cost? $10, $20? Thanks.
That's an awesome history, I gotta pick some of these Jinhao's before they disappear
I've gone a different route and tried a Parker 21 - but the Jinhao 51a is in the mail - so far I really like the Parker 21 - and much cheaper than a Parker 51!
Cool. I am not sure if I will like a hooded nib, so this will let me test it out for not a huge price tag
I dont want "the real deal." My fountain pen pouch is filled with 5 low-cost pens, and im happy with them.
From Amazon
1) Parker Jotter
2) Jinhao x750
3) Pilot Metropolitan
From Temu
4) 530 classical wood
5) Chinese style Qinglong Baihu Suzaku
The Qinglong pen looks like a lamy pen but with a Chinese White Tiger. I love it.
Now try the wing sung 601, even closer to a parker 51 vac. Build quality is much better than the jinhaos
Agreed, the Wing Sung 601 is far better than Jinhao and they even have a 12k nib option for about $40.
I can't afford a Parker, but I got a 5 pack of the Jinho for $15 I use as a work pen. Use it in the field, marketing everything that i need to mark, the first one for work now for about 18 months and is now starting to have fits. Remember I use this to mark wood, plastic, metal, what ever. Good work pen that I don't need to care about much.
The Jinhao 51 is a really great bang for the buck. And if it's taking the beating you're giving it, 18mo is pretty good. If you said you used your Parker 51 on metal people would lose their MINDS 😂. But for $6, it's pretty damn good 👍
I just ordered 5 units ... I hope it does not happen to me as with the wirsung 3008, of 5 pens in the pack only one worked well ...
Guess its smart to put the odds in your favor by ordering 5 LOL
I have Jinhao 51A rosewood fountain pen. ❤ I like it very much. It writes smooth and don't miss a single chance to write with this beautiful pen.
Absolutely nice.
Love from India 🇮🇳
Yes that's the reason i like all metal fountain pens
You can mix materials & still have a great long lasting pen, but it has to be done properly with attention to detail
@@Doodlebud absolutely agree, but still a softer material when screwed on a harder material will always worn off or crack. Don't take me otherwise 🤣🤣
Hey Doodlebud,I have a Jinhao 51A with an ebony barrel and that‘s very soft as the black piano keys or a clarinet.The Jin writes very well so that i exchanged him against my german representatives Lamy2000,Kaweco Liliput ,Pelikan M200,M80,Pelikan Silvexa M20. Put in a Lamy blue Ink Cartridge not royal blue …normal blue and you have the same enlightenment as i,you do not exchange it anymore.
Many love greetings from Germany to Canada
Helmut
Thanks for saying hi, my grandfathers name was Helmut! 🙂
Jinhao all the way. Parker can't make pens today to save its life. Proof - the 51 reissue.
Great video!
Very good advice about trying out the Jinhao before shelling out money for the real deal.
hello，I am a friend from China, you can take a look at Jinhao 85, it is a great pen, it is an upgraded version of Jinhao 51a😊😊
Try jinhao 991
Sorry av.Doodlebud, but every guitar solo I ever learnt to play, I wrote on the acoustic . I want PEN
Lol
Great video Doodlebud, even if you did include a Jinhao ;=) . Never tried a Parker 51, maybe someday. So far, I'm in love with my Pilot 823 "M" ~ Smoke. Writes so good, so smooth, and so effortlessly. Of course, you could buy about 48 Jinhaos for the cost of an 823... .
The 823 is really great, wish I got mine in a M. Id rather have 1 super quality pen that I ador, than a bunch that I don't.
Bought this directly from China for 2 dollars
Hey doodlebud , you should send your feedback about your momento zero to the folks at Leonardo. They’re supposed to stand behind their product quality - hence the price tag!
I’m sure they’d appreciate the feedback from an engineer if nothing else.
I have no idea on how to send them any feedback. I assume they know about this thread decision and must have used it for some reason.
@@Doodlebud yeah I know! They don’t really have an official website that I can find.. maybe send them a private message via their Facebook or Instagram pages?
Apparently they manufacture out of a shared facility called Oromare in Naples. The facility has several other luxury goods manufacturers that work with precious metals, polished stones etc. so they don’t have an official headquarters per se.
They have been known to gift pens to at least one you-tuber (sbre brown).
I’m sure they would appreciate the feedback nevertheless.
@@Doodlebud check with your fellow Canadian, Doug Rathbun. He had a bad nib experience with his MZ and has been contacted directly by the owner who more than resolved his nib issue.
There's nothing like a balanced and unbiased review, is there. And this is nothing like an unbiased review, is it. I own a Parker 51, and have done for decades. A perfect pen, an old friend. I also have a Jinhao 51A, that no one could confuse with the Parker. Have had it for a number of years. A perfect pen. But of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating. How does it write. Sorry, but if your writing sample is anything to go, I wouldn't waste your money on an expensive pen. Stick to a 6 buck jobbie. Or maybe go back to a BIC ballpoint. (Incidentally, the nib section on my 51a has a plastic thread, and fits perfectly). I also have a Hero 616, another perfect Chinese pen. And again, about 3% of the cost of a Parker 51.
My OPINION is Jinhao = junk, and I don't waste even $5.00 on junk. Of course, you can comment on Doodlebud's writing sample, but if you're going to badmouth his, and you want to be fair, there are a lot more folks out in TH-cam land who write (?) way worst then this gentleman. fahsfbds...
@@strshooter7399 I agree with you entirely. There are many as bad as this guy when it comes to handwriting. I would go as far as to say most who do so called "fountain pen reviews"- including this guy- have handwriting that could not even be described as handwriting. While of course when it comes to the aesthetics of pens we are all entitled to our opinions, how on earth could we possibly put any credence on the ability of a pen to write (it's only purpose for existing) when the reviewer hasn't even bothered to master the basics of handwriting. After all, one would hardly put any value on a book review, if the reviewer couldn't read.
Edward, you must have misunderstood... I don't think Doodlbud's handwriting is bad at all. 99% of all of us can improve our handwriting skills. It's your attitude toward his review that leaves me shaking my head. There's just no cause in a fountain pen review to take that tone.
@@edwardwhite2441 I must admit, I have felt this way for a long time. The only way you can evaluate how good a pen really is, is to see a good handwriting example. Not just a load of scribbles!
Yeah this guy is so biased, trying to make it look like the Parker is such a much better pen, and coming up with nonsense like plastic on metal is worse. Pretty pathetic tbh
I use the Parker 51 to go to Church on Sundays and the Jinhao 51A to the BadaBing on Fridays.
Wow, Friday night sounds a bit riskay lol
Dang! I thought Parker was British
I believe it used to be a long time ago. (Please correct if I'm wrong0.
If you're going to criticize China for copying a design then you should be willing to point that criticism of Western pen makers who have also been guilty of copying. Otherwise it's hypocrisy. The bit about the threads was interesting. The rest clearly show your bias, particularly when your critique is between $100+ vintage pen and a $5 Chinese pen - who is really surprised that there is a difference in build quality? Really.
Where was he surprised?
@@mgscheue I guess English is not your first language. It was a rhetorical question.
@@davyj5216 Your guess is wrong, but I imagine that was an attempt at an insult. Sorry to have upset you about your two year old, poorly supported statements.
@@mgscheue Says the guy who commented on a two year old thread with clear inability to parse the statement correctly. Well done. And no, it wasn't an insult, it was a guess based on two things - your surname (which doesn't look English) and your lack of comprehension skills. Given a lack of other data it was a reasonable guess. It doesn't upset me if that guess is inaccurate. I am more concerned with seeing poor English comprehension to be honest. The 'who' in 'who is really surprised... ' encompasses everyone, as in 'who (in the world) would be really surprised by a difference in quality...' Free lesson, you are welcome.
@@davyj5216 Save your concern for your own emotional and cognitive issues, Mr. J (Is “J” an English surname? Because clearly only people with “English-looking” surnames can be native English speakers).
Have a nice day getting your panties twisted and seeing who you can impress with that bluster.
Biased. How much did you pay? 2 bucks wants 20 bucks' result, greedy or silly? China has a lots of fine pens, you need to pay more.
Lol this video is hilarious how biased it is