[Try4ce] There's a lot of confusion about the intent of this episode, so this is for some clarification. The N64 was actually my console of choice (by far) back in the late 90s, and I still really love it. I think there's an appeal to both the N64 look and the PS1 look. I think the N64 was really forward-thinking for implementing anti-aliasing, even if the technique is flawed by modern standards. We aren't by any means saying what's on display here is better. It's just a topic that's generated some interest, and we needed to address it on the channel. We don't mean to imply it as an improvement or a detriment, just present it for what it is. Personally, I have no plans to use the AA removal, but I do enjoy the de-blur. Some will even hate the de-blur. Yes, we understand (and say in the video!) that the N64's look is different on a CRT, but it's also not fair to say that this is the only way people should play the N64. Emulation also has plenty of advantages, but our focus in this episode is all about what can be done on actual N64 hardware. The goal of the RGB Master Class series is to show OPTIONS, not to declare the ONE best way to display your games. To each his own, that's not for us to judge or dictate.
+My Life in Gaming Some people prefer picture clarity over the reduction of aliasing, and I can understand that. In fact, I believe some or perhaps many of the games on the console that were 2D still had the AA applied (or perhaps just the blur you also mention) resulting in (imo) an undesirable blur effect for fans of old school pixel art. So I think there may be people that would greatly appreciate such an option. Personally, I like the de-blur a lot and prefer my 2D pixels crisp and clear, 3D without AA or isn't my cup of tea. Nothing at all wrong with having options though. Thumbs up.
i have a hdtv (with a horrible 36ms input lag) and i plan to get a gameshark, so this could help a bit. but i want to wait until a Ultra-HDMI Plug and Play version could come out to help the rest of it on my hdtv. unfortunately there is no solution to remove lag altogether yet. or at least on my tv.
The blurring filter done by the N64 seems to be a basic form of anti-aliasing like FXAA. Instead of detecting triangle edges it looks like it just detects every sharp change in color so it goes overkill with the color blending. A perfect solution would add AA to the edges but leaving the textures as they are.
+ccricers [Try4ce] I don't know a ton about AA techniques, but I don't think FXAA existed until something like 2011. I don't know how similar in style earlier methods may be. At the time it was pretty awesome because it did a decent job with hardly any performance hit. But now I'm playing through Uncharted 4, and whatever magic it's using puts any other AA I've ever seen to shame. Pretty dang close to no visible aliasing at all. Crazy to think we might be close to perfecting AA. Come a long way since N64.
I just used an AA N64 patcher to turn the aliasing off on all roms for the Everdrive. The gameshark codes dont work with every game, and some codes only turn down the AA, not completely remove it. I found that latching the games with AA off was a better solution. This is a great video. I know its 4 years old, but it's good stuff to come back to visit.
Hey guys, this was an incredible look at video output on the N64. All the different display types and rendering options was like 3D Retro Game porn for my eyes. Thanks for putting this together, you've earned a loving follower.
The Dithered Effect really kills me with N64. It sucks that as I improve the quality of the image from the system the more noticeable it becomes. Great Video, very informative.
Idk, if you're gonna play retro games, I think it's best to use CRT TVs. It's what the system was made for. I tried playing my N64 on an HD TV and it just didn't feel like the same experience no matter what I did to try to clear up the picture
Great video! I didn't think that the ULTRAHDMI DeBlur looked all that appealing to me (VS the original look of the games) - but the combination of what the GS does and what the UHDMI looks really cool! I'm looking at RGB modding my N64 at some point this year....I might hold off on it to see if it would be possible to get an RGB mod with blur removal comparable to UHDMI. This video made my day. I love how enthusiastic, optimistic and adventurous the writing is - and the footage of people plugging in/turning on/grabbing stuff makes me feel all happy inside.
+Sadpants McGee i was scrolling down the comments hoping i wasnt the only one who thought that. Looks smoother, why would i want to see the choppy edges
+Sadpants McGee It's not crazy, Anti-Aliasing was something they used to make the games look better for the time. It looked less blockey. For that time on consoles: extremely blocky or a bit of blur, give me the blur. :P PS2 also used it in the 6th generation btw.
I know this is old news but I haven't had my N64 Everdrive for very long and I can't wait to get home and try these patches out on my CRT! Update: Works perfectly on my Everdrive. I'm still picking up my jaw off the floor! Some games not only look better, but they run smoother too! Fantastic stuff!
To be honest, none of these options are nice. Sure removing Anti-Aliasing has benefits to some and blur to others; but to be completely truthful 3D polygons look nasty with 240p with video filters or not. 240p is awesome with handling 2D sprites but is a horrible resolution for 3D graphics. 480i is a much better resolution for these consoles but it's sad that very few games that generation could handle 480i. In truth, this console generation graphically has aged the poorest concerning resolution mostly (Since the previous ones used mostly 2D sprites with 240p, and the 6th Gen was mostly 480i/p or higher with 3D Graphics). I personally perfer to use sharper pixels for *any* kind of 240p video as a console gamer just to get the most amount of ""detail"" out of the picture. But in all truth, for this generation of consoles as a console gamer; I don't see emulation as a bad alternative for 3D based games. If I were to get into the N64 I would probably use emulation and skip the whole mess.
+Helloz World Yeah, being the first generation of 3D hardware made for a bit of a rough transition to be sure. It's funny, as far as resolution you can see the generational equivalency.. Back then 240 was average, and 480 the high res option. Today that has gone up to 720p being average with 1080p being high or "full HD".. And tomorrow, (actually today for more and more folks) 2160p or 4K is the new full high res standard, wonder what they'll settle on for a lower stopgap average, maybe 1440p, 1800. Starting to reach the diminishing returns though.. As many can't even really tell the difference between 1080p and 4K with an average size display at average viewing distance. So It should be plenty for years to come.
+bliglum I've kind of stopped going on with how everyone wants everything in an HD resolution or higher. Eventually everything we have now will be considered outdated, so I kind of consider 480i/p to be ""high resolution"" weirdly enough. Sure 4K resolutions are pretty, but there are other pretty things that exist too. ^-^
480p was a reasonably high resolution for the smaller screens back then. When the biggest screens *tube were only about 36", DVD quality 480p was plenty! And when 4K first dropped, many reputable tech reviewers pointed out that in most use cases, it's pointless. Unless you get a 90" display, or sit just a few feet from a 50", there would be no discernible difference from 1080p.. That's when the TV industry quickly introduced HDR, so as to have another reason to upgrade! Haha!
I actually like the blur more than the other two, but would prefer an option with less blur. I wonder if the Gameshark could reduce, but not eliminate the blur filter. That would be cool.
What's the point? N64's main graphical advantage over the PS1 were effects like mip mapping, linear filtering, texture perspective correction and anti-alliasing. Remove these things and you get a PS1 that uses cartridges instead of CDs. Also, the PS1 looks horrible on a modern LCD screen, those dithering artifacts you speak of were hidden on CRTs via composite video. You weren't supposed to see it.
Anything can do Mip-Mapping, but the N64 doesn't do texture filtering, real anti-aliasing, transparency, fog, guraud shading etc...It's all fakery behind a courtain of smear. However, some PS1 Games will have some of these effects added when played on a PS2. I wish they just the chip of the Voodoo 1 at the time. That thing was actually an improvement.
I'm not sure about mip-mapping in PS1 games, care to give any examples? N64 does so-called "tri-point filtering" which is a bit different to the (bi/tri)linear filtering found in PC games and newer consoles like the Sega Dreamcast and PS2 but looks pretty close to it and certainly better than PS1's nearest filtering without perspective correction which gives it that recognizable pixelated and warping look. The anti-aliasing is edge-based, so similar to 3dfx Voodoo's, not the full-scene AA which I think was first introduced by Nvidia's GeForce (I could be wrong though) whereas fog, transparency and gouraud shading certainly were hardware features of the N64 (same with PS1 - the Sega Saturn had problems with transparencies mind). N64 also did reflection/environment mapping well, as seen in games like Super Mario 64 (metal Mario), Wave Race 64 (water effects), etc. PS1 and the Saturn could do similar effects (e.g. Sonic R, Crash Bandicoot 3, etc) but they used them much less often and infact the water in Wave Race 64, a launch N64 title, was already on another level than water simulation in the majority of PS1 and Saturn games. There was no way for PS1 to have a 3dfx Voodoo in it, unless they'd release a updated model with more RAM, faster CPU and a new GPU which I assume would cost more for them to make and sell. Only realistic upgrade the PS1 could have had would have been more RAM (either system or video) but even that was, according to Kutaragi, too expensive for mass manufacture at the time. On the other hand, the Sega Dreamcast almost had a 3dfx Voodoo 2 based GPU in it before they changed to PowerVR instead.
I don't really see the purpose in spreading misinformation and console hate. The N64 did all of those things, many of which was the first time for implementation, it was significantly more powerful than the PS1 and Saturn, the N64 has none of the polygonal breakup, and shaking and warping however as has been known - its development environment wasn't anywhere near optimised. The AA is real, however there are many implements, the VI adds softness. In the 90s When you had a CRT, with S video it combined excellently producing an image that was sharp, clean and solid. The N64 actually looks excellent on modern sets with an ultra HDMI set to output at 1200p, hybrid scanlines and VI filter off and AA on which is my personal preference.
wow..had an everdrive with the a hyperspin romset. Got the patches predone which had all the names already perfectly matched, put it in the "auto" folder on my everdrive, and bam, it worked. Pretty cool, would have never known about these without this video. Thank you!
This is awesome! I guess you guys don't really feel this way, but I LOVED the look of the output from both the GameShark and Ultra HDMI. I thought it looked AMAZING, despite some weird coloration.
+Dan Scannell [Try4ce] There is a Sega CD or Silent Hill dithering sort of appeal to it, in a way. ;) Coury definitely seemed more into it than me, though! I think it looks neat in Smash, definitely more detail to the characters. Otherwise, I'm not too sure I'll really be using it regularly. Fascinating, though!
This isn't an improvement, damn guys. Back in the 90's it was a godsend that N64 used AA, it's part of why the graphics seemed a whole generation leap ahead of PS1.
actually its been shown to improve the framerates of games where you disable AA on the N64 games. with games that have a horrible framerate this could be their saving grace to achieve a playable framerate (or at least a stable framerate).
+John Redcorn Excuse me but they don't promote the filtering removal as the way to go. If you actually listen to them, they leave it up for the viewer to decide what they prefer, and even admit it's controversial/debatable. And I'm sorry, but claiming the N64 was a "whole generation leap ahead of the PS1" is absurd fanboy talk. The graphics were only marginally better, and the cartridge format was both expensive and limiting. In fact, it directly lead to Squaresoft leaving Nintendo when the N64 came out, because they had already invested so much into having CD storage that they couldn't afford to downsize to cartridge media.
Am I the only one actually preferring the blurred original image? I hate the roughness of raw pixels and to me the blurring creates some sort of optical illusion making it seem smoother and better. Please don't let me be the only one =d PS: I do play n64 on a 100hz 32" high end crt tv, maybe that's the trick.
You're definitely not the only one. I'm not super picky about my video signals(picky enough though that I need at least S-video) and picture clarity because I feel it breaks the illusion, which impacts my immersion. I also just think early 3D graphics look terrible and absolutely need that blur. I often go for a mid to high quality signal, but use it on a CRT and often turn the sharpness down quite a bit.
I'm totally with you. I can't stand looking at a mess of super-clear pixels. The filters were implemented for a good reason, and N64 on a good quality CRT looks pretty nice in my opinion.
+interlace If you're playing on a CRT I think leaving the AA as-is is best. This more helps people playing on TVs in the HD-era. I personally detest the deblur pixelated look, but adding scanlines to it would make it the best visual option imo.
+interlace N64 and PSX look crappy. That generation just looks rough. No way around it, I find it hilarious how excited they are to make the games look shittier. Emulation makes N64 games look like a modern game.
+Ryan Good What i want is that someone puts a modern high end phone gpu inside of an n64, more ram , put hi-res textures mod and higher resolution on it.
Awesome, I am so happy! After going 90 miles out to an electronics flea market at 4am that was a bust, a friend hooked me up with a great deal! I am now a happy owner of (2) early 14" Sony pvms!:)
+Demetrius Lolos Do you also have problems with certain games on Project64? The Kirby J&R doesn't show enemies, for example (already in the beginning of the game).
+Oliver ‘LtnGuile’ K. project64 is updated, and the only game with issues is conkers bad fur day but that is because it useds a dizzy effect which the emulator can't do.
Helloz World Yep, and those people I consider crazy. I still have the hardware myself, but why mess with wires and HDMI problems when there's emulators?
this is all cool, i love console mods on these older system, but ive gotta say the aa n64 has actually makes it look a bit better. now with an emulator you can get some n64 games looking amazing, running at a higher res and with modern AA
I'm sure you guys don't check comments on these older episodes anymore, but if you happen to come across this I'd just like to apologize on behalf of humanity for a large part of this comment section. People that bash you guys for whatever ignorant reason or another obviously don't video edit, and can't comprehend how much effort and time you two commit to each one of these, even on the shorter side like this one. Even for seasoned editors I can only imagine how long it takes to get all of this together, record the high quality IRL shots, parallel game snags, as well as writing the scripts and so much more. Such a shame to see peoples' classless attempts at criticism for you guys just showing off neat options to create a new experience for a game console's enthusiasts.
[Try4ce] Oh it doesn't really get to us! This video is quite interesting in terms of comments because a lot of people seem to react negatively to the idea it presents, which, honestly, we aren't exactly proponents of ourselves. We were just saying, "Here's an interesting thing you can do that some people seem to like," not like, "You should definitely do this!"
+Dylan Smith It is. These guys are "into" n64 so they dick around with it instead of playing games because it has been out so long. Whatever the actual reason is, I trust Nintendo and the engineers and programmers working there. The DK example along with most others showed how the original looks better. removing the AA looks like a garbled mess.
TH-cam’s magic formula brought me here. I have no interest in N64 gaming, but this was still a very interesting video. Thanks! I will never understand why anyone would click the dislike button on something like this.
Almost every single clip with some type of AA removed looks much worse. I don't get this entire video or the interest in removing AA. On the DK example was DK more blurry at the end? Yeah, but he also looked like DK! At the start he was technically clearer but the representation of him as a whole was less "clear," he resembled the smash bros DK.
Because they are moaning how horrible it looks on their HD television. Instead downloading an emulator and using at highest settings as HD game. Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time for example running this game on emulator screen goes true widescreen and using highest settings you will love what you see. This video makes people to go buy more stuff for their old dead system instead promoting the new style. Xbox 360 controller fully supported on emulator. Just install it like Gamecube joystick style and it works just great!
No not really. I'ts accurate if you use the soft plugin which uses a lot of CPU power. It shows the true graphics. No problem running here except 3D games... Even with I7 it's hard. But you can use 3D directx plugin and you're got with 60fps most of the games. Project64 is my main... no complains here :-)
This is pretty neat, I remember wondering why the output on my HD display looked way muddier than when I last used it on a proper tube television. It's nice to see people taking the time to research software and hardware rendering and how things work on different display outputs to give people options instead of "DIS IS GUD AND DIS IS BAD, UR DUMB IF U WANT TO TEST THINGS" Thanks for this!
I guess the games look better, but N64 is one of those systems that I think benefits most from S-Video and a CRT. I don't see the benefit of RGB too much. N64 is always going to be a troublesome or uglier kind of platform with the limitations of the time. It's one of the situations where I see the developers original intention to be worthwhile in experiencing it today. The blur filters were likely a means to overcome the huge amounts of aliasing inherent in low resolution 3D rendering at the time. Combined with the limitations of a CRT the result was blurry, but I think it works and is accurate to the nostalgia of those games. Seeing Genesis, SNES, or NES through RGB is more of an improvement to me because that's how arcade games looked at the time, and probably how the developers saw it when making the game too. It also fits with how I remember seeing screenshots in magazines.
Ya, I have a modder who is trying to get their hands on Ultra-HDMI boards and I am first in line to have the mod done. However, after buying a Sony Trinitron/Wega, I'm pretty happy with my N64+CRT. Makes me wish I never sold my CRT's years ago. I used a 13" C64 monitor for my N64 growing up and it looked great on that, too bad my parents go rid of it a few years ago even though I asked them to hold onto it, could have made a s-video to BNC cable and had even better picture on it.
The actual primary anti-aliasing was enabled in the first place to smooth jagged edges out. Why on earth would you want to disable that? The Ultra-HDMI thing, on the other hand is quite neat.
I have a RGB modded N64 and Everdrive 64 and have downloaded the patch file for all roms to remove the AA. The games on my CRT look stunning and all I had to do was tell the flash cart to auto apply the patches!! AMAZING!!!!
+Mygingerguy [Try4ce] We're thinking about getting to Saturn sooner than later. Since you live in the UK, you can thankfully already use RGB with your TVs, but if you want to play on an HDTV, you can get MUCH sharper image quality with the Framemeister. If you play on a CRT though, you're probably good to go, unless you're considering getting into NTSC stuff. For UK perspectives on video scalers and stuff, check videogameperfection.com
+My Life in Gaming alright then, thanks Try! I'll look into it, but I am on a budget here, still I will use it for certain things. I hope the Sega Saturn RGB video comes soon, I want to get ready for the Policenauts Saturn Translation to be released.
And you guys did the PS1 RGB which helped me for when doing better video quality, thanks for that video! You guys also did the N64 as well, I have no interest into playing the system, but helpful any ways. You do not want to leave out Sega fans on this generation as I call: The PlayStation Uprising. I wish the Saturn got some more love.
+My Life in Gaming The Dreamcast I really dislike, due to becoming pricey here in the UK, and lack of games for me to play. I go for Working Designs games on the Sega CD and Saturn, heck can you do a Working Designs Episode maybe? I would love people to know more about Victor Ireland's Greatest VideoGame Localizer Company!
I use S-video cable and an upscaller (720p or 1080p), but the graphic on Winback was so bad. Now with AAA (Anti-Anti-Aliasing kkkk) the image was amazing!!! Thanks!!! This helped me a lot!!! This is one of the best channel about (retro)games that I know!!!
+jangelelcangry [Try4ce] Well, you know, the supposed "PlayStation Neo" kinda makes you think, doesn't it? An evolved version of an existing design. And too, the way that GameCube games work so flawlessly on the Wii, as well as how Wii backwards compatibility can be wrangled into running GameCube games... such evolutions of hardware can be made to do interesting things. But the challenge of recreating those old chips exactly to spec is the tough part. There's also the AVS Nintendo that's coming soon, which, by my understanding, is not an emulator, but not original chips either... it's different from the traditional clone systems... I need to do more research on it. Either way, it may be theoretically possible, but with the challenge + cost involved, it's anyone's guess as to whether such a thing would ever be created.
+Christian Vega [Try4ce] Haha, nah, the AVS Nintendo is something someone else is making, which will play NES games. Though I'll admit, I've wondered if the NX could use 3DS-styled cartridges as its main media instead of discs. I think that'd be pretty rad.
+My Life in Gaming So basically from the gc to the wiiu I think those were the same CPUs with different performance levels and it seems that as long as you use the same exact instructions set you're ok. I would like to see extremely fast versions of older consoles from 1994-2001. I played goldeneye 64 @ 1080p, 60fps + native mouse support emulated and it's awesome.
I just found out this was possible last night and I spent all night converting all my N64 ROMs to turn off the blurriness and they for the most part all look amazing on my Toshiba CRT with S-Video
+TMNT 1984 [Try4ce] I believe installers are currently between supply availability, but keep an eye on retrofixes.com and badassconsoles.com for them to have it in stock. There may also be others, but I'm more familiar with those two.
Would I be able to use my Everdrive 64 X7 to have this Gameshark code always activate when I start a game? Therefore never having the hassle of ever putting in the code again?
Doesn't really matter to me, seems like a waste of time, when you can just download something real quick. But I guess if you're interested in doing all that then alrighty then.
+Elkdog N64 emulation is still shoddy. I myself used to be an emulator fanboy, but always found something wasn't quite right with each system, like the occasional frame stutter or sound crackle, and that's with the more 'perfect' emulators. N64 emulation on the other hand doesn't even come close to merely being a case of the occasional hiccup. So for me, nothing beats being able to hook up an original system with an RGB cable, pop an Everdrive cart into it, and be able to play the entire library with actual hardware behavior instead of unreliable emulation.
I had some of the sound issues too. I guess my real issue was with trying to get a controller to work well with the emulator. I bought a retro n64 pc controller that looked the same, but I found the analog was too sensitive or something. I pretty much gave up. I'm not really willing to shell out the money for an n64 and the games though. I really only liked mario64, ocarina of time and GoldenEye. I liked a few others but I thought they had some pretty terrible games on the system. I never bought another Nintendo again after the n64.
I’m torn on this. I fell like a smoothed out image is more fitting for 3D games but the AA used on the n64 is bad. Emulation seems to provide the best picture quality but the quality of emulation is never been that great
Why would you want to disable anti-aliasing? It's what made N64 games look so much better than those jerky looking Playstation games where everything looked like it was composed of cardboard cut outs.
+Lucideans Well, that, and the playstation's terrible texture mapping, and complete lack of texture filtering. XD If you have PC games from a certain era you can see the huge difference that results between using point sampling compared to just basic bilinear filtering.
So... How is no AA an improvement exactly? AA is pretty much expected these days, and for good reason! Why would you deliberately make the graphics more pixelated? And compared to the playstation, the fundamental problem is the N64's tiny 4kb texture cache, which means most games, especially the early ones use very small textures, even compared to the PS1, so blurring or not, there simply isn't much detail there in the first place. But this really is very weird. given a PC from the early days of 3d hardware, who in their right mind would disable bilinear filtering (what the N64 does, which makes textures a little blurrier, compared to point sampling like the PS1, which on PC at least, looks consistently awful by comparison). Nor can I think of any reason why you'd turn off AA given the option unless your GPU is really struggling (or you are forced to choose between higher resolution or more AA). It's just a rather strange set of choices to make... But then again I always found the PS1 graphics to be terrible. Pixelated stuff often with glitchy texture mapping... Why that appeals to anyone given a choice, I wouldn't know...
+KuraIthys [Try4ce] It doesn't necessarily appeal to me, though the de-blur does (I consider that different from AA). I would think of the secondary blur as being a similar effect of 720p or 900p on a native 1080p display... it's softer, but not in a good way (not to imply I think it looks bad, but it's not as good). Whereas the primary blur, yes, it's there to help, and I do agree that it helps. However, I also think my perception of AA on lower resolutions is a lot different compared to HD resolutions. I find a certain nostalgic appeal to the PS1 look, and I don't think anti-aliasing is necessary at such low resolutions to make an attractive game. But sure, in HD games, it's absolutely always helpful. Should it be removed in N64 games? I personally don't think so, but plenty of people are really interested in using this, so do what you like, I guess!
+My Life in Gaming hey is there a way to do a soft touch with the game shark method because with that and the de blur it looks great but i wish i can avoid dithering
Even on my fairly modern computer, I tend to dislike AA for hardware reasons. If I turn on AA, I have to turn down resolution to get acceptable framerates, so everything just looks smeared rather than looking smooth. It's a similar issue with the N64; the resolution is really low, so AA takes an already low resolution image and makes it smudgy.
Rylan Edlin Mmh. I guess there are downsides. The performance cost is obvious, and I usually turn off AA for that reason. (losing 20 fps for slightly smoother graphics? Eh. No thanks.) Still, from this video alone, I don't really see the appeal. I guess I could experiment, I still have an N64 lying about... But turning off Texture filtering in particular didn't impress me, at least, in relation to what was shown in the video.
There is actually a code you can enter in Top Gear Rally that disables the bilinear texture filtering. It's a pretty interesting effect, and people used to call it "playstation mode" back in the day. I don't know of any other games that have this feature, but I would think that it's theoretically possible.
So Cool! Your videos do such a great job of parsing all of the complicated and often overwhelming information on rgb mods and such. Thanks for your hard work.
+Ron Baer anything not HD running on an HDTV looks awful. "looks great" doesn't mean farcry 3, just that the colors and image quality are great. Most of my experience with 8,16, 64, and 128 bit systems is on a 27" CRT, they all look waaaay better there than on an HDTV.
James Cree To be honest, I don't think the developers even cared what their work looked like. Some of them used CRTs and others BVMs, if you actually want what the artist wanted their work to look like then you should use an emulator so you don't get 240p giving you less detail. And anyways, wasn't the hardware built to show blocky pixels? I think that theory of CRTs softening the image to look better is a bit too much and to far to think every developer thought that way. To be honest, it sounds kind of too fake to be real.
Thanks for this info! They're getting pretty crazy with N64 modding. This is going to be interesting to mess around with once I get an UltraHDMI and flash cart.
[Coury] The closest that I can guess is because people seemed to think we were saying that we thought they should do it on their games. But we never actually say anything like that. We were merely presenting that the hack exists, what it does and how it compares to other options out there. In our entire RGB series, we never try to tell anyone what we think they should do, we just want to present all of the options and let each person choose what what they like best and how they want to play.
+My Life in Gaming Oh by the way I have exciting news! The VI De-Blur in the Ultra HDMI has been added as a software update avaliable on existing Tim Worthington's N64RGB boards!!
I thought this episode was fantastic! While AA works miracles nowadays, I definitely agree that it has no place on a 240p image. It's also great unique content. There aren't many people on TH-cam talking about this stuff.
not because you are ordering anyone to do what you say, but because you keep thrash talking about the n64 rounded looks, and claming that pixelated crap looks better (only agree on certain 2d games). stop talking like you had gods word, and nobody will get angry, seriously, stop talking like you had facts instead of opinions, this is a matter of taste
It's blurry because, the N64 has two steps when anti-aliasing. Both the Gameshark and Ultra HDMI remove the first and second step. When you remove half of the anti-aliasing you end up with either result, the picture will still be blurry or too pixelated either way until you use both IMO. Notice when the Ultra HDMI has the de blur, around the pixels there is sort of a fade; and with the Gameshark there isn't a fade but just some blur left. That is what the two steps are
I sincerely appreciate your RGB Master Class series! It has opened my mind on how great the video quality to retro consoles can get, and has taught me a lot of cool, new things! Thank you guys so much! And can you guys make an episode on how to get the best quality out of a Sega Dreamcast? I am thinking of getting my hands on a Dreamcast some time soon, and I want to display the console at the best possible quality! It would be nice if you guys could make a video on that.
+DarkSparkish [Try4ce] Dreamcast is a high priority, but we gotta do Saturn first! In the meantime, look into the boxes made by Behar Bros. We both use their Toro box and love it.
I think the simple no anti-aliasing looks like ass. The ultra HDMI looks good though. The combination of both is absolutely horrible. Man.. Console gamers like aliasing? What a weird backwords world you guys live in. :P
+General Turd [Try4ce] I've heard from several PC gamers who don't even like anti-aliasing, which strikes me as odd, but at least it saves performance. For the record, I definitely think AA is a good thing. I just played through Uncharted 4 and it has the best anti-aliasing I've ever seen... incredibly sharp and 99.9% jaggy-free. The implementation on N64 is pretty archaic, but I'm not picky about it myself. We aren't necessarily saying "do this," but it's something that a lot of people had interest in.
+General Turd Personally, I think it depends on the game. I think it looks fantastic on Smash 64 (no anti-aliasing). The issue I have with the N64s method of smoothing/blur is that it reminds me of FXAA. As a PC gamer, I'm sort of picky when it comes to AA. FXAA is by far the worst kind of AA, it just makes everything look like a blurry mess (like the n64).
+Jay W I think the hokey (to put it lightly) AA that the N64 uses kinda serves its purpose with _some_ titles. Others, well... it tends to look like somebody sneezed on the display and tried to wipe it off with their sweaty hands. That said, I would have to agree with you regarding the comparison to FXAA on modern GPUs. BUT I'd have to come clean and say that the -mucous- texture filtering and (what would nowadays be considered half-assed) AA were the big reasons I tended to prefer the N64's graphical capabilities over the Playstation in the 90's. The strange/broken looking polygon perspective issues the PSX had I felt were highly objectionable.
+General Turd Well, AFAIK it's always better to just render the thing at a higher resolution instead of using anti-aliasing... and I think the removal of such post-processing (is that what AA is?) on the N64 is done for the sake of clarity more than anything. I think it'd be better to play N64 games on a PC with the game rendered at 1080p (or4k, or w/e you want) with a widescreen hack or something but some people like to use the real hardware and I respect that. That being said, though (and I'd like to have a purist's point of view on this, if there's one reading), I don't understand the reason for removing it... or using things like the everdrive or retron... isn't playing the games as they were back in the day the whole point of using the actual hardware? In my eyes, if you're using a flash-cart and LCD/LED display with an HDMI modded console and/or codes to change the output (or worse, a flash-cart on a retron and modern panel), you might as well be emulating it on a PC since it's objectively better and more convenient in almost every way and situation.
[Try4ce] There's a lot of confusion about the intent of this episode, so this is for some clarification. The N64 was actually my console of choice (by far) back in the late 90s, and I still really love it. I think there's an appeal to both the N64 look and the PS1 look. I think the N64 was really forward-thinking for implementing anti-aliasing, even if the technique is flawed by modern standards. We aren't by any means saying what's on display here is better. It's just a topic that's generated some interest, and we needed to address it on the channel. We don't mean to imply it as an improvement or a detriment, just present it for what it is. Personally, I have no plans to use the AA removal, but I do enjoy the de-blur. Some will even hate the de-blur. Yes, we understand (and say in the video!) that the N64's look is different on a CRT, but it's also not fair to say that this is the only way people should play the N64. Emulation also has plenty of advantages, but our focus in this episode is all about what can be done on actual N64 hardware. The goal of the RGB Master Class series is to show OPTIONS, not to declare the ONE best way to display your games. To each his own, that's not for us to judge or dictate.
+My Life in Gaming Some people prefer picture clarity over the reduction of aliasing, and I can understand that. In fact, I believe some or perhaps many of the games on the console that were 2D still had the AA applied (or perhaps just the blur you also mention) resulting in (imo) an undesirable blur effect for fans of old school pixel art. So I think there may be people that would greatly appreciate such an option. Personally, I like the de-blur a lot and prefer my 2D pixels crisp and clear, 3D without AA or isn't my cup of tea. Nothing at all wrong with having options though. Thumbs up.
Well said, as always. :)
i have a hdtv (with a horrible 36ms input lag) and i plan to get a gameshark, so this could help a bit. but i want to wait until a Ultra-HDMI Plug and Play version could come out to help the rest of it on my hdtv. unfortunately there is no solution to remove lag altogether yet. or at least on my tv.
do you guys advertise for framemeister?
Best way to make Conker's Bad Fur Day as good looking as possible without playing on pc, is to play it on Rare Replay. :3
The blurring filter done by the N64 seems to be a basic form of anti-aliasing like FXAA. Instead of detecting triangle edges it looks like it just detects every sharp change in color so it goes overkill with the color blending. A perfect solution would add AA to the edges but leaving the textures as they are.
+ccricers [Try4ce] I don't know a ton about AA techniques, but I don't think FXAA existed until something like 2011. I don't know how similar in style earlier methods may be. At the time it was pretty awesome because it did a decent job with hardly any performance hit. But now I'm playing through Uncharted 4, and whatever magic it's using puts any other AA I've ever seen to shame. Pretty dang close to no visible aliasing at all. Crazy to think we might be close to perfecting AA. Come a long way since N64.
@@mylifeingaming "Crazy to think we might be close to perfecting AA."
And then TAA came along and made the N64s AA look high quality...
I just used an AA N64 patcher to turn the aliasing off on all roms for the Everdrive. The gameshark codes dont work with every game, and some codes only turn down the AA, not completely remove it. I found that latching the games with AA off was a better solution. This is a great video. I know its 4 years old, but it's good stuff to come back to visit.
always so much detailed information :) great episode as always
+N64 Glenn Plant you want me to lube up?
+Gynormouse Weiner username checks out
The professionalism in these films are amazing, keep it up!
Hey guys, this was an incredible look at video output on the N64. All the different display types and rendering options was like 3D Retro Game porn for my eyes. Thanks for putting this together, you've earned a loving follower.
Just wanted to say that these are some of my favourite videos on TH-cam. Great work guys!
The Dithered Effect really kills me with N64. It sucks that as I improve the quality of the image from the system the more noticeable it becomes. Great Video, very informative.
The more pixelated look with scanlines is definitely a beautiful sight. The AA removal discovery is a blessing.
Idk, if you're gonna play retro games, I think it's best to use CRT TVs. It's what the system was made for. I tried playing my N64 on an HD TV and it just didn't feel like the same experience no matter what I did to try to clear up the picture
Thank you for making this video. I thank you for keeping the rgb community current. You really have an impact.
4:37 Wow, the GS + De-Blur looks awesome. It really does look like a PlayStation's rendering.
+Reid Thomas Actually, PS rendering was very bad compared to N64.
+Reid Thomas Better! It almost looks like the DS' rendering
+MrNucleosome i think he was being sarcastic
Great video. I've seen you guys out collecting info in forums for a while and it's cool to see this all come together.
Great video! I didn't think that the ULTRAHDMI DeBlur looked all that appealing to me (VS the original look of the games) - but the combination of what the GS does and what the UHDMI looks really cool! I'm looking at RGB modding my N64 at some point this year....I might hold off on it to see if it would be possible to get an RGB mod with blur removal comparable to UHDMI.
This video made my day. I love how enthusiastic, optimistic and adventurous the writing is - and the footage of people plugging in/turning on/grabbing stuff makes me feel all happy inside.
I feel like some sort of crazy person or something, but I definitely think the originals look better in every single example.
it does
Same
+Sadpants McGee i was scrolling down the comments hoping i wasnt the only one who thought that. Looks smoother, why would i want to see the choppy edges
+forgetful47 And that awful dither.
+Sadpants McGee It's not crazy, Anti-Aliasing was something they used to make the games look better for the time. It looked less blockey. For that time on consoles: extremely blocky or a bit of blur, give me the blur. :P
PS2 also used it in the 6th generation btw.
I know this is old news but I haven't had my N64 Everdrive for very long and I can't wait to get home and try these patches out on my CRT!
Update: Works perfectly on my Everdrive. I'm still picking up my jaw off the floor! Some games not only look better, but they run smoother too! Fantastic stuff!
Looks better in it's original state..
To be honest, none of these options are nice. Sure removing Anti-Aliasing has benefits to some and blur to others; but to be completely truthful 3D polygons look nasty with 240p with video filters or not. 240p is awesome with handling 2D sprites but is a horrible resolution for 3D graphics. 480i is a much better resolution for these consoles but it's sad that very few games that generation could handle 480i.
In truth, this console generation graphically has aged the poorest concerning resolution mostly (Since the previous ones used mostly 2D sprites with 240p, and the 6th Gen was mostly 480i/p or higher with 3D Graphics). I personally perfer to use sharper pixels for *any* kind of 240p video as a console gamer just to get the most amount of ""detail"" out of the picture. But in all truth, for this generation of consoles as a console gamer; I don't see emulation as a bad alternative for 3D based games. If I were to get into the N64 I would probably use emulation and skip the whole mess.
+Helloz World Yeah, being the first generation of 3D hardware made for a bit of a rough transition to be sure. It's funny, as far as resolution you can see the generational equivalency.. Back then 240 was average, and 480 the high res option. Today that has gone up to 720p being average with 1080p being high or "full HD".. And tomorrow, (actually today for more and more folks) 2160p or 4K is the new full high res standard, wonder what they'll settle on for a lower stopgap average, maybe 1440p, 1800.
Starting to reach the diminishing returns though.. As many can't even really tell the difference between 1080p and 4K with an average size display at average viewing distance. So It should be plenty for years to come.
+bliglum I've kind of stopped going on with how everyone wants everything in an HD resolution or higher. Eventually everything we have now will be considered outdated, so I kind of consider 480i/p to be ""high resolution"" weirdly enough. Sure 4K resolutions are pretty, but there are other pretty things that exist too. ^-^
480p was a reasonably high resolution for the smaller screens back then. When the biggest screens *tube were only about 36", DVD quality 480p was plenty! And when 4K first dropped, many reputable tech reviewers pointed out that in most use cases, it's pointless. Unless you get a 90" display, or sit just a few feet from a 50", there would be no discernible difference from 1080p.. That's when the TV industry quickly introduced HDR, so as to have another reason to upgrade! Haha!
I actually like the blur more than the other two, but would prefer an option with less blur. I wonder if the Gameshark could reduce, but not eliminate the blur filter. That would be cool.
This is freakingly in-depth. It is amazing! :D
I'd sure love to have my N64 look like a PS1.
After all, the PS1 image is sharp. I like sharp. Blur gives me a headache.
Dithering for the win!
What's the point? N64's main graphical advantage over the PS1 were effects like mip mapping, linear filtering, texture perspective correction and anti-alliasing. Remove these things and you get a PS1 that uses cartridges instead of CDs.
Also, the PS1 looks horrible on a modern LCD screen, those dithering artifacts you speak of were hidden on CRTs via composite video. You weren't supposed to see it.
Anything can do Mip-Mapping, but the N64 doesn't do texture filtering, real anti-aliasing, transparency, fog, guraud shading etc...It's all fakery behind a courtain of smear. However, some PS1 Games will have some of these effects added when played on a PS2. I wish they just the chip of the Voodoo 1 at the time. That thing was actually an improvement.
I'm not sure about mip-mapping in PS1 games, care to give any examples?
N64 does so-called "tri-point filtering" which is a bit different to the (bi/tri)linear filtering found in PC games and newer consoles like the Sega Dreamcast and PS2 but looks pretty close to it and certainly better than PS1's nearest filtering without perspective correction which gives it that recognizable pixelated and warping look. The anti-aliasing is edge-based, so similar to 3dfx Voodoo's, not the full-scene AA which I think was first introduced by Nvidia's GeForce (I could be wrong though) whereas fog, transparency and gouraud shading certainly were hardware features of the N64 (same with PS1 - the Sega Saturn had problems with transparencies mind). N64 also did reflection/environment mapping well, as seen in games like Super Mario 64 (metal Mario), Wave Race 64 (water effects), etc. PS1 and the Saturn could do similar effects (e.g. Sonic R, Crash Bandicoot 3, etc) but they used them much less often and infact the water in Wave Race 64, a launch N64 title, was already on another level than water simulation in the majority of PS1 and Saturn games.
There was no way for PS1 to have a 3dfx Voodoo in it, unless they'd release a updated model with more RAM, faster CPU and a new GPU which I assume would cost more for them to make and sell. Only realistic upgrade the PS1 could have had would have been more RAM (either system or video) but even that was, according to Kutaragi, too expensive for mass manufacture at the time. On the other hand, the Sega Dreamcast almost had a 3dfx Voodoo 2 based GPU in it before they changed to PowerVR instead.
I don't really see the purpose in spreading misinformation and console hate. The N64 did all of those things, many of which was the first time for implementation, it was significantly more powerful than the PS1 and Saturn, the N64 has none of the polygonal breakup, and shaking and warping however as has been known - its development environment wasn't anywhere near optimised. The AA is real, however there are many implements, the VI adds softness. In the 90s When you had a CRT, with S video it combined excellently producing an image that was sharp, clean and solid.
The N64 actually looks excellent on modern sets with an ultra HDMI set to output at 1200p, hybrid scanlines and VI filter off and AA on which is my personal preference.
Jason Scarpace do you use an original machine?
Well, now this gives me another reason to get a gameshark along with being able to dump roms.
0:53 BEETLE ADVENTURE RACING MENU THEME?!?!! OMG youre awesome man
Just Discovered this channel , amazing content and ive learned alot just by watching this. Cant wait to see more !
Goldeneye looks beautiful without the blur!!
wow..had an everdrive with the a hyperspin romset. Got the patches predone which had all the names already perfectly matched, put it in the "auto" folder on my everdrive, and bam, it worked. Pretty cool, would have never known about these without this video. Thank you!
Wow, 2 Goemon clips, that's the most I've seen in a long time.
+lemmingscanfly5 [Try4ce] I squeeze in a little Goemon whenever I can.
This is awesome! I guess you guys don't really feel this way, but I LOVED the look of the output from both the GameShark and Ultra HDMI. I thought it looked AMAZING, despite some weird coloration.
+Dan Scannell [Try4ce] There is a Sega CD or Silent Hill dithering sort of appeal to it, in a way. ;) Coury definitely seemed more into it than me, though! I think it looks neat in Smash, definitely more detail to the characters. Otherwise, I'm not too sure I'll really be using it regularly. Fascinating, though!
This isn't an improvement, damn guys. Back in the 90's it was a godsend that N64 used AA, it's part of why the graphics seemed a whole generation leap ahead of PS1.
True goddamn that. I think these people are crazy, Why the hell would anyone think sharp blocky pixels for 3D graphics looks good, Anti-Aliasing FTW
+John Redcorn I just came to the comments to find out why they were trying to make the game look more pixelated
actually its been shown to improve the framerates of games where you disable AA on the N64 games.
with games that have a horrible framerate this could be their saving grace to achieve a playable framerate (or at least a stable framerate).
+madmax2069 ok that makes sense. Graphics don't ruin a good game but frame rate for sure can kill a good game
+John Redcorn Excuse me but they don't promote the filtering removal as the way to go. If you actually listen to them, they leave it up for the viewer to decide what they prefer, and even admit it's controversial/debatable. And I'm sorry, but claiming the N64 was a "whole generation leap ahead of the PS1" is absurd fanboy talk. The graphics were only marginally better, and the cartridge format was both expensive and limiting. In fact, it directly lead to Squaresoft leaving Nintendo when the N64 came out, because they had already invested so much into having CD storage that they couldn't afford to downsize to cartridge media.
With this and Backloggery, I have no idea how you don't have millions of viewers. Your posts are extremely informative.
Am I the only one actually preferring the blurred original image? I hate the roughness of raw pixels and to me the blurring creates some sort of optical illusion making it seem smoother and better. Please don't let me be the only one =d
PS: I do play n64 on a 100hz 32" high end crt tv, maybe that's the trick.
You're definitely not the only one. I'm not super picky about my video signals(picky enough though that I need at least S-video) and picture clarity because I feel it breaks the illusion, which impacts my immersion. I also just think early 3D graphics look terrible and absolutely need that blur. I often go for a mid to high quality signal, but use it on a CRT and often turn the sharpness down quite a bit.
You're not the only one.
I'm totally with you. I can't stand looking at a mess of super-clear pixels. The filters were implemented for a good reason, and N64 on a good quality CRT looks pretty nice in my opinion.
+interlace If you're playing on a CRT I think leaving the AA as-is is best. This more helps people playing on TVs in the HD-era. I personally detest the deblur pixelated look, but adding scanlines to it would make it the best visual option imo.
+interlace N64 and PSX look crappy. That generation just looks rough. No way around it, I find it hilarious how excited they are to make the games look shittier. Emulation makes N64 games look like a modern game.
I wish there were more channels who'd talk about stuff like this.
Anyhow, good job guys.
Wow, the N64's video quality is continuing to get better through the use of more mods. Hope they can get unfiltered textures on actual hardware soon.
+Ryan Good but why?
+Ryan Good Wouldn't it make it look as bad as PS1? Texture filtering is what made N64 stand out.
+HE1NZ but the texture filtering just looks awful especially when the textures are at an even lower resolution than on the PS1.
+Ryan Good What i want is that someone puts a modern high end phone gpu inside of an n64, more ram , put hi-res textures mod and higher resolution on it.
jangelelcangry Don't think that's how it works...
Awesome, I am so happy! After going 90 miles out to an electronics flea market at 4am that was a bust, a friend hooked me up with a great deal! I am now a happy owner of (2) early 14" Sony pvms!:)
You know, Project64 is pretty good at removing blur.
+Demetrius Lolos - Project64 is better than the actual console
+Demetrius Lolos Do you also have problems with certain games on Project64? The Kirby J&R doesn't show enemies, for example (already in the beginning of the game).
+Oliver ‘LtnGuile’ K. project64 is updated, and the only game with issues is conkers bad fur day but that is because it useds a dizzy effect which the emulator can't do.
You do know some people perfer playing on original hardware
Helloz World
Yep, and those people I consider crazy. I still have the hardware myself, but why mess with wires and HDMI problems when there's emulators?
this is all cool, i love console mods on these older system, but ive gotta say the aa n64 has actually makes it look a bit better. now with an emulator you can get some n64 games looking amazing, running at a higher res and with modern AA
What is wrong with all of you!??? That blurry look is janky AF. LOVE what they have done here.
I think Tim Worthington is actually putting in a VI de-blur option into newer N64RGB units.
0:53 Beetle adventure racing is the best game ever!
Pffff
I can't believe this video doesn't have more likes. The internet is a tough crowd.
some games look better cleaner but i like the aa and the post process because this era graphics are really blocky and low res.
YAY you guys hit 20k subscribers last night, congrats!
+robobin [Try4ce] Thank you! Our next episode will be our 20k celebration game setup + studio tour video!
I'm sure you guys don't check comments on these older episodes anymore, but if you happen to come across this I'd just like to apologize on behalf of humanity for a large part of this comment section. People that bash you guys for whatever ignorant reason or another obviously don't video edit, and can't comprehend how much effort and time you two commit to each one of these, even on the shorter side like this one. Even for seasoned editors I can only imagine how long it takes to get all of this together, record the high quality IRL shots, parallel game snags, as well as writing the scripts and so much more. Such a shame to see peoples' classless attempts at criticism for you guys just showing off neat options to create a new experience for a game console's enthusiasts.
[Try4ce] Oh it doesn't really get to us! This video is quite interesting in terms of comments because a lot of people seem to react negatively to the idea it presents, which, honestly, we aren't exactly proponents of ourselves. We were just saying, "Here's an interesting thing you can do that some people seem to like," not like, "You should definitely do this!"
Thanks for the Goemon footage. Seeing homage to a huuuuugely underrated series is always nice to see.
And Im sitting here and think that the Standard RGB is the best looking one...
+Postal Dude Because it is.
+Dylan Smith It is. These guys are "into" n64 so they dick around with it instead of playing games because it has been out so long. Whatever the actual reason is, I trust Nintendo and the engineers and programmers working there.
The DK example along with most others showed how the original looks better. removing the AA looks like a garbled mess.
True that, the standard connection blows all these ''hacks'' out of the water. If you want pixel perfect clarity you need to use PJ64 :P
I disagree. N64 looks like ass these days, it's crazy how visually superior 3d games on PlayStation and Saturn look these days, so much clearer.
+Postal Dude Hi there, would you like to sign my petition ?
TH-cam’s magic formula brought me here. I have no interest in N64 gaming, but this was still a very interesting video. Thanks!
I will never understand why anyone would click the dislike button on something like this.
That ultra HDMI thing looks like a cheap FPGA doing a basic sharpen filter..
+Diggnuts Bingo!
Welp, isn't that exactly what it does?
I discovered this channel today... and it's awesome I subscribed.. Keep the good job and Greetings from Mexico.
I discovered it today too:)
+Ludwig Vilas - Greetings. I just returned from Playa Del Carmen Mexico. I love it there. Very nice people and it's beautiful.
I seriously love this intro music... Damn.
To me Analog Video with just the Gameshark alone looks better than the Ultra HDMI.
Almost every single clip with some type of AA removed looks much worse. I don't get this entire video or the interest in removing AA.
On the DK example was DK more blurry at the end? Yeah, but he also looked like DK! At the start he was technically clearer but the representation of him as a whole was less "clear," he resembled the smash bros DK.
Because they are moaning how horrible it looks on their HD television. Instead downloading an emulator and using at highest settings as HD game. Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time for example running this game on emulator screen goes true widescreen and using highest settings you will love what you see. This video makes people to go buy more stuff for their old dead system instead promoting the new style. Xbox 360 controller fully supported on emulator. Just install it like Gamecube joystick style and it works just great!
No not really. I'ts accurate if you use the soft plugin which uses a lot of CPU power. It shows the true graphics. No problem running here except 3D games... Even with I7 it's hard. But you can use 3D directx plugin and you're got with 60fps most of the games. Project64 is my main... no complains here :-)
Emulation will never be 1:1 with real hardware. I like emulation but I'd rather use the real thing. Pros and cons to both sides I guess.
This is pretty neat, I remember wondering why the output on my HD display looked way muddier than when I last used it on a proper tube television.
It's nice to see people taking the time to research software and hardware rendering and how things work on different display outputs to give people options instead of "DIS IS GUD AND DIS IS BAD, UR DUMB IF U WANT TO TEST THINGS"
Thanks for this!
I honestly find it so much better looking with the AA on. Was never fond the really pixelated look that Playstation and Saturn games had.
I guess the games look better, but N64 is one of those systems that I think benefits most from S-Video and a CRT. I don't see the benefit of RGB too much. N64 is always going to be a troublesome or uglier kind of platform with the limitations of the time.
It's one of the situations where I see the developers original intention to be worthwhile in experiencing it today. The blur filters were likely a means to overcome the huge amounts of aliasing inherent in low resolution 3D rendering at the time. Combined with the limitations of a CRT the result was blurry, but I think it works and is accurate to the nostalgia of those games.
Seeing Genesis, SNES, or NES through RGB is more of an improvement to me because that's how arcade games looked at the time, and probably how the developers saw it when making the game too. It also fits with how I remember seeing screenshots in magazines.
Ya, I have a modder who is trying to get their hands on Ultra-HDMI boards and I am first in line to have the mod done. However, after buying a Sony Trinitron/Wega, I'm pretty happy with my N64+CRT. Makes me wish I never sold my CRT's years ago. I used a 13" C64 monitor for my N64 growing up and it looked great on that, too bad my parents go rid of it a few years ago even though I asked them to hold onto it, could have made a s-video to BNC cable and had even better picture on it.
The actual primary anti-aliasing was enabled in the first place to smooth jagged edges out. Why on earth would you want to disable that? The Ultra-HDMI thing, on the other hand is quite neat.
I have a RGB modded N64 and Everdrive 64 and have downloaded the patch file for all roms to remove the AA. The games on my CRT look stunning and all I had to do was tell the flash cart to auto apply the patches!! AMAZING!!!!
Can you do a RGB Sega Saturn episode, I live in the UK, do I still need a Framemister since I live in the UK?
+Mygingerguy [Try4ce] We're thinking about getting to Saturn sooner than later. Since you live in the UK, you can thankfully already use RGB with your TVs, but if you want to play on an HDTV, you can get MUCH sharper image quality with the Framemeister. If you play on a CRT though, you're probably good to go, unless you're considering getting into NTSC stuff. For UK perspectives on video scalers and stuff, check videogameperfection.com
+My Life in Gaming alright then, thanks Try!
I'll look into it, but I am on a budget here, still I will use it for certain things.
I hope the Sega Saturn RGB video comes soon, I want to get ready for the Policenauts Saturn Translation to be released.
And you guys did the PS1 RGB which helped me for when doing better video quality, thanks for that video!
You guys also did the N64 as well, I have no interest into playing the system, but helpful any ways.
You do not want to leave out Sega fans on this generation as I call: The PlayStation Uprising.
I wish the Saturn got some more love.
+Mygingerguy [Try4ce] The Dreamcast is very popularly requested, but no way can we do Dreamcast before Saturn!
+My Life in Gaming The Dreamcast I really dislike, due to becoming pricey here in the UK, and lack of games for me to play. I go for Working Designs games on the Sega CD and Saturn, heck can you do a Working Designs Episode maybe? I would love people to know more about Victor Ireland's Greatest VideoGame Localizer Company!
love the sound FX used throughoutyour videos when inserting carts
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron in high res mode is simply jaw-dropping with this hack, at least for N64 graphics.
+aleckermit
Why not try the original version? It's on sale on gog.com right now: www.gog.com/game/star_wars_rogue_squadron_3d
I use S-video cable and an upscaller (720p or 1080p), but the graphic on Winback was so bad.
Now with AAA (Anti-Anti-Aliasing kkkk) the image was amazing!!! Thanks!!! This helped me a lot!!!
This is one of the best channel about (retro)games that I know!!!
Would it be possible to make a more powerful n64 without breaking compatibility?
Great video BTW.
+jangelelcangry [Try4ce] Well, you know, the supposed "PlayStation Neo" kinda makes you think, doesn't it? An evolved version of an existing design. And too, the way that GameCube games work so flawlessly on the Wii, as well as how Wii backwards compatibility can be wrangled into running GameCube games... such evolutions of hardware can be made to do interesting things. But the challenge of recreating those old chips exactly to spec is the tough part. There's also the AVS Nintendo that's coming soon, which, by my understanding, is not an emulator, but not original chips either... it's different from the traditional clone systems... I need to do more research on it. Either way, it may be theoretically possible, but with the challenge + cost involved, it's anyone's guess as to whether such a thing would ever be created.
+My Life in Gaming is it true Nintendo is going back to cartridges??? if so I hope they do it as the classic Nintendo cartridges.
+Christian Vega [Try4ce] Haha, nah, the AVS Nintendo is something someone else is making, which will play NES games. Though I'll admit, I've wondered if the NX could use 3DS-styled cartridges as its main media instead of discs. I think that'd be pretty rad.
+My Life in Gaming yess that will be epic man.
+My Life in Gaming So basically from the gc to the wiiu I think those were the same CPUs with different performance levels and it seems that as long as you use the same exact instructions set you're ok. I would like to see extremely fast versions of older consoles from 1994-2001. I played goldeneye 64 @ 1080p, 60fps + native mouse support emulated and it's awesome.
I just found out this was possible last night and I spent all night converting all my N64 ROMs to turn off the blurriness and they for the most part all look amazing on my Toshiba CRT with S-Video
Would like to remove the blur from my uk and jp n64's one day soon.
We use a 64 modded for RGB for specific games but emulation seems to be the way to go for many games. However, that Ultra HDMI mod is on the radar.
Great channel man!
45 seconds into this video and it's the nerdiest thing I've ever seen... which is why I love it so much!
where can I buy ultra hdmi???
+TMNT 1984 [Try4ce] I believe installers are currently between supply availability, but keep an eye on retrofixes.com and badassconsoles.com for them to have it in stock. There may also be others, but I'm more familiar with those two.
I really appreciate all the information you guys have discussed on retro games and consoles. Great videos!
Why on earth would you want to remove AA to that jaggy festival?
***** You're actually right there, a bunch of N64 games could use a performance boost.
I saw Lufia 2: Rise of the sinistrals in your intro. by that little thing alone you are immediately subbed.
I love this channel.
I have enjoyed your series so much. Some of them I have watches twice. I will continue looking forward to future content. Keep up the good work!!
I actually think the de blur looks like complete shit but that's just me.
De blur is better think of it as a photograph, if u blur the picture, her face wont be detailed,
Would I be able to use my Everdrive 64 X7 to have this Gameshark code always activate when I start a game? Therefore never having the hassle of ever putting in the code again?
N64 Emulators look pretty good. Higher resolution + better anti-aliasing
Missed the point there, champ. This is about real hardware, not damn emulators.
Doesn't really matter to me, seems like a waste of time, when you can just download something real quick. But I guess if you're interested in doing all that then alrighty then.
+Elkdog N64 emulation is still shoddy. I myself used to be an emulator fanboy, but always found something wasn't quite right with each system, like the occasional frame stutter or sound crackle, and that's with the more 'perfect' emulators. N64 emulation on the other hand doesn't even come close to merely being a case of the occasional hiccup. So for me, nothing beats being able to hook up an original system with an RGB cable, pop an Everdrive cart into it, and be able to play the entire library with actual hardware behavior instead of unreliable emulation.
I had some of the sound issues too. I guess my real issue was with trying to get a controller to work well with the emulator. I bought a retro n64 pc controller that looked the same, but I found the analog was too sensitive or something. I pretty much gave up. I'm not really willing to shell out the money for an n64 and the games though. I really only liked mario64, ocarina of time and GoldenEye. I liked a few others but I thought they had some pretty terrible games on the system. I never bought another Nintendo again after the n64.
Many N64 games run horrible though, emulation is far better for playing the games at stable framerates and they also look far sharper.
I’m torn on this. I fell like a smoothed out image is more fitting for 3D games but the AA used on the n64 is bad. Emulation seems to provide the best picture quality but the quality of emulation is never been that great
A good alternative would be to patch the games in 480i
@@Obscure_man31 that sounds kinfa dumb.
you my friend have a great intro to your videos, very nicely done, first time seeing your channel
Fuck all this. If I wanted blocky graphics I would get a PSX.
What do you guys use for a camera? Looks great!
Why would you want to disable anti-aliasing? It's what made N64 games look so much better than those jerky looking Playstation games where everything looked like it was composed of cardboard cut outs.
+Lucideans Well, that, and the playstation's terrible texture mapping, and complete lack of texture filtering. XD
If you have PC games from a certain era you can see the huge difference that results between using point sampling compared to just basic bilinear filtering.
cause the anti-aliasing used by the N64 made it look worse? it was like someone rubbed butter on the TV.
+Lucideans Yeah this video is weird all that work just to make it look worse then the original
N64 AA is not like AA used today. All it did was blur the image.
Funky Buddha Anti Aliasing still makes it look better on flat screen instead of a pixelated mess.
Please do frameister alternatives soon. Just getting into RGB gaming, would love a budget alternative to get started with
So... How is no AA an improvement exactly? AA is pretty much expected these days, and for good reason!
Why would you deliberately make the graphics more pixelated?
And compared to the playstation, the fundamental problem is the N64's tiny 4kb texture cache, which means most games, especially the early ones use very small textures, even compared to the PS1, so blurring or not, there simply isn't much detail there in the first place.
But this really is very weird. given a PC from the early days of 3d hardware, who in their right mind would disable bilinear filtering (what the N64 does, which makes textures a little blurrier, compared to point sampling like the PS1, which on PC at least, looks consistently awful by comparison).
Nor can I think of any reason why you'd turn off AA given the option unless your GPU is really struggling (or you are forced to choose between higher resolution or more AA).
It's just a rather strange set of choices to make... But then again I always found the PS1 graphics to be terrible. Pixelated stuff often with glitchy texture mapping...
Why that appeals to anyone given a choice, I wouldn't know...
+KuraIthys [Try4ce] It doesn't necessarily appeal to me, though the de-blur does (I consider that different from AA). I would think of the secondary blur as being a similar effect of 720p or 900p on a native 1080p display... it's softer, but not in a good way (not to imply I think it looks bad, but it's not as good). Whereas the primary blur, yes, it's there to help, and I do agree that it helps. However, I also think my perception of AA on lower resolutions is a lot different compared to HD resolutions. I find a certain nostalgic appeal to the PS1 look, and I don't think anti-aliasing is necessary at such low resolutions to make an attractive game. But sure, in HD games, it's absolutely always helpful. Should it be removed in N64 games? I personally don't think so, but plenty of people are really interested in using this, so do what you like, I guess!
+My Life in Gaming hey is there a way to do a soft touch with the game shark method because with that and the de blur it looks great but i wish i can avoid dithering
AA at such low res... it just makes it blurry.
Even on my fairly modern computer, I tend to dislike AA for hardware reasons. If I turn on AA, I have to turn down resolution to get acceptable framerates, so everything just looks smeared rather than looking smooth. It's a similar issue with the N64; the resolution is really low, so AA takes an already low resolution image and makes it smudgy.
Rylan Edlin Mmh. I guess there are downsides.
The performance cost is obvious, and I usually turn off AA for that reason. (losing 20 fps for slightly smoother graphics? Eh. No thanks.)
Still, from this video alone, I don't really see the appeal. I guess I could experiment, I still have an N64 lying about...
But turning off Texture filtering in particular didn't impress me, at least, in relation to what was shown in the video.
There is actually a code you can enter in Top Gear Rally that disables the bilinear texture filtering. It's a pretty interesting effect, and people used to call it "playstation mode" back in the day. I don't know of any other games that have this feature, but I would think that it's theoretically possible.
texture filtering was a god send. who wanted to see the giant pixels of low res images? filter dat shyt!
So Cool! Your videos do such a great job of parsing all of the complicated and often overwhelming information on rgb mods and such. Thanks for your hard work.
i just play on a crt and it looks great without all those cables and gamesharks, old tvs for old consoles, that is all
Ron Baer do you play like 2 inches away from the screen or what?
+Ron Baer anything not HD running on an HDTV looks awful. "looks great" doesn't mean farcry 3, just that the colors and image quality are great.
Most of my experience with 8,16, 64, and 128 bit systems is on a 27" CRT, they all look waaaay better there than on an HDTV.
+Nicolas Cortés I don't like CRT looks. I prefer BVMs instead
+Helloz World Spoken like a true noob. How the fuck can you not like the looks of the display these things were designed to use? Lol
James Cree To be honest, I don't think the developers even cared what their work looked like. Some of them used CRTs and others BVMs, if you actually want what the artist wanted their work to look like then you should use an emulator so you don't get 240p giving you less detail. And anyways, wasn't the hardware built to show blocky pixels? I think that theory of CRTs softening the image to look better is a bit too much and to far to think every developer thought that way. To be honest, it sounds kind of too fake to be real.
Thanks for this info! They're getting pretty crazy with N64 modding. This is going to be interesting to mess around with once I get an UltraHDMI and flash cart.
Flash cart?
Why is this video disliked? I thought this was interesting.
[Coury] The closest that I can guess is because people seemed to think we were saying that we thought they should do it on their games. But we never actually say anything like that. We were merely presenting that the hack exists, what it does and how it compares to other options out there.
In our entire RGB series, we never try to tell anyone what we think they should do, we just want to present all of the options and let each person choose what what they like best and how they want to play.
+My Life in Gaming Oh by the way I have exciting news! The VI De-Blur in the Ultra HDMI has been added as a software update avaliable on existing Tim Worthington's N64RGB boards!!
I thought this episode was fantastic! While AA works miracles nowadays, I definitely agree that it has no place on a 240p image. It's also great unique content. There aren't many people on TH-cam talking about this stuff.
not because you are ordering anyone to do what you say, but because you keep thrash talking about the n64 rounded looks, and claming that pixelated crap looks better (only agree on certain 2d games). stop talking like you had gods word, and nobody will get angry, seriously, stop talking like you had facts instead of opinions, this is a matter of taste
I’d love to see a comparison between the de blur on the ultra HDMI and the de blur on the N64 RGB board going through an XRGB mini.
Blur rounds off pixels which, in turn makes the characters look realistic, to me, this is pointless
Depends on the game I think.
I really love your guys episodes. Very informative and gets me stoked on old school video games!
So do people like sit directly in front of their tv or something? lol. Also these games aren't meant for ultra huge widescreens, get a tube tv.
it's theoretically possible to disable texture filtering on hardware, but it'd have to be done for every displaylist in the whole game
Is it just me or does it look mor blurry with ultra hdmi?
*more
it might be. it looks less pixelated
It's blurry because, the N64 has two steps when anti-aliasing. Both the Gameshark and Ultra HDMI remove the first and second step. When you remove half of the anti-aliasing you end up with either result, the picture will still be blurry or too pixelated either way until you use both IMO. Notice when the Ultra HDMI has the de blur, around the pixels there is sort of a fade; and with the Gameshark there isn't a fade but just some blur left. That is what the two steps are
I sincerely appreciate your RGB Master Class series! It has opened my mind on how great the video quality to retro consoles can get, and has taught me a lot of cool, new things! Thank you guys so much!
And can you guys make an episode on how to get the best quality out of a Sega Dreamcast? I am thinking of getting my hands on a Dreamcast some time soon, and I want to display the console at the best possible quality! It would be nice if you guys could make a video on that.
+DarkSparkish [Try4ce] Dreamcast is a high priority, but we gotta do Saturn first! In the meantime, look into the boxes made by Behar Bros. We both use their Toro box and love it.
I think the simple no anti-aliasing looks like ass. The ultra HDMI looks good though. The combination of both is absolutely horrible. Man.. Console gamers like aliasing? What a weird backwords world you guys live in. :P
+General Turd [Try4ce] I've heard from several PC gamers who don't even like anti-aliasing, which strikes me as odd, but at least it saves performance. For the record, I definitely think AA is a good thing. I just played through Uncharted 4 and it has the best anti-aliasing I've ever seen... incredibly sharp and 99.9% jaggy-free. The implementation on N64 is pretty archaic, but I'm not picky about it myself. We aren't necessarily saying "do this," but it's something that a lot of people had interest in.
+General Turd Personally, I think it depends on the game. I think it looks fantastic on Smash 64 (no anti-aliasing). The issue I have with the N64s method of smoothing/blur is that it reminds me of FXAA. As a PC gamer, I'm sort of picky when it comes to AA. FXAA is by far the worst kind of AA, it just makes everything look like a blurry mess (like the n64).
+Jay W I think the hokey (to put it lightly) AA that the N64 uses kinda serves its purpose with _some_ titles. Others, well... it tends to look like somebody sneezed on the display and tried to wipe it off with their sweaty hands.
That said, I would have to agree with you regarding the comparison to FXAA on modern GPUs. BUT I'd have to come clean and say that the -mucous- texture filtering and (what would nowadays be considered half-assed) AA were the big reasons I tended to prefer the N64's graphical capabilities over the Playstation in the 90's.
The strange/broken looking polygon perspective issues the PSX had I felt were highly objectionable.
+General Turd
Well, AFAIK it's always better to just render the thing at a higher resolution instead of using anti-aliasing... and I think the removal of such post-processing (is that what AA is?) on the N64 is done for the sake of clarity more than anything. I think it'd be better to play N64 games on a PC with the game rendered at 1080p (or4k, or w/e you want) with a widescreen hack or something but some people like to use the real hardware and I respect that.
That being said, though (and I'd like to have a purist's point of view on this, if there's one reading), I don't understand the reason for removing it... or using things like the everdrive or retron... isn't playing the games as they were back in the day the whole point of using the actual hardware? In my eyes, if you're using a flash-cart and LCD/LED display with an HDMI modded console and/or codes to change the output (or worse, a flash-cart on a retron and modern panel), you might as well be emulating it on a PC since it's objectively better and more convenient in almost every way and situation.
***** Well, that's why I said "on a PC @1080p"
LUFIA 2!!! SO SICK!! i NEVER see that get any love anywhere else!! on of my FAV ALL TIME GAMES
That's just what I need -- blocky PlayStation graphics on my N64.
+bitwize that smear just makes everything look bad though..
i never thought things were bad playing on a big tv but then again im not sitting with my face on the tv or zooming in on character models
Maybe it's be but the graphics look better without the hdmi or gameshark.