“So you want to play against the meta?” No I just used a Multimach for an entire season and a half and now I don’t know how to aim with a hand cannon anymore. I need to play against it.
Truth is, I haven't played with HCs in so long that I've basically forgotten how to aim them. SMGs and Pulses also feel great to use and are what I'm more accustomed to right now for PVP.
I was in the same place kinda but handcannons have much aim assist it only takes a game or two to start doing well with them. Like when xur gave out that dire promise I felt like I couldn't miss.
same here, used to 3tap consistently and was a meta slave hunter hc+shotgun main, spent 3 months playing other games and now I just cannot aim hand cannons LMAO
I don't fear the guy having a 3.0 kd with a handcannon and shotgun, I fear the people having a 2.0 kd with anti meta weapons because how do you counter something that you play against once in 20 matches
Lol I almost have 2.0 running well of 'you have to kill me instantly if you want me to die' and the other day this guy I started playing with was asking "were you the one with the well" was so funny to be recognised for my absolutely annoying play style
@@kingawesome5219 No. They're merely competent most of the time. What you should _really_ fear is the triple-stacked gilded Flawless/Unbroken teams in 3v3 matchmaking, because they can range from competent to god-level, _and_ they coordinate well with each other. 95% of the time, this is a blowout GG.
3:00 2,000 hr. in the game and still that range graphic is a really cool and novel visual representation of optimal ranges, useful to even experienced players because of how thoroughly and cleanly it organizes that information Vid easily earned a like off that diagram alone, keep up the good stuff Nomad
I feel you there, still salty about shoulder. Charge, I paired it up with a hard hitting scout to pester all sorts at range, auto rifles about 600 RPM so it's got SMG output but the range to back it up. Since it got killed I get so dam salty about hunters oneshot melee kills and instantly getting their melee back and Thiers is a headseaking no range falloff and can be chucked around corners blindly. Yeah I call BS there. I am still rocking that scout mind you and with todays changes.... Ohh 3 shot kills
This video could have just been one screen that says "Le Monarque." Honestly, this weapon has the unique power to throw a wrench into literally any meta.
I've had SO much fun with LeMon this season. (I've also been amused when the opposing team figures out I'm using it and drops me with a sniper - they learn and adapt, so I have to as well) While it doesn't always one-shot an enemy, I can't tell you how many times I've chipped them down to like 10-20% and a team mate does the cleanup. It's lovely. Go invis, pop out, drop an enemy, then run for dear life haha.
Just wait 500 years for me to get a catalyst. Hopefully it does something to increase ad clear potential like not requiring and precision hit to trigger the poison cloud or something
Since the first week of trials this season, I've started to respect bow users. At first I always scoff at them but then when the time came where skilled bow players would almost instantly get rid of my shields every time i peek out of cover, I've started using bows myself and man it's actually pretty fun quickswapping bows and primaries from time to time.
I’m honestly surprised seeing bow users in trials and even more surprised there are players who respect bow users by not tbagging them because of their loadout
Bows have been consistently Anti-meta (as long as the meta is hand cannons). They out range them, and peak shot even harder than a hand cannon. Throw in monarque and a damage buff and it's essentially an infinite ammo sniper. The playstyle is harder to use, and it way more limited than a hand cannon. But damn is it effective if you learn it.
@@puthenveetilnoel I’ve tried a few buffs damage buffs but I just prefer not to use them due to how inconsistent they are to setup either requiring a mod build like charged with light, ability builds like Titan sunspots or pre-nerf whisper of hedrons (used the most with cold snap grenades), and abilities that revolved around map layouts mainly bubble, well, or empowering rifts on lanes or around corners. Besides if I’m not good enough at gun play, there is no point in me investing in builds that improve my abilities in a small amount of situations.
@@kingawesome5219 the damage buffs I typically run are high energy fire and emp rifts from an allied warlock. And I'm not building around them. They are a nice addition and it helps, but most of the time I'm using the bow hand cannon swap as is. If an orb happens to be there, or I get a lot of bow kills, I can 1 tap a few times. If not, no biggie. Building around the 1tap most of the time isn't a good idea. Playing normally and enjoying the 1 taps when you get them is the way lol.
Anti meta just means a different way of counter attacking, I'm a side arm scout rifle guy, and I'll make them work no matter the meta because I prefer them to other weapons.
@@alkhemiss Traveler's chosen and Rat King can put some work in, and if your using stasis with rat king, use Graviton forfeit to make some sneaky plays. Cheers dude.
You got a topic that is often very confusing to understand and transform it into a very straight forward manner. High level quality content. Thanks for this!
I think the shake up in my weapon usage really helped me in trials last week, when Xur sold that Main Ingredient. I normally run a handcannon shotgun, but I would always get out gunned by opposing H&S users,. When I got that fusion, I decided to try it out in trials, *without* practicing with it first. I would end up being the one to shoot out hunters in the air, and to break titans barriers when they wanted a rez. I ended up with the most kills in the games, going flawless for the first time, on the first card.
Ive been watching this repeatedly trying to soak up as much info, just like many others are I am sure. But this time I want to say thank you nomad. The way your clear and concise yet still humorous. You try your best to truly teach us. I am thankful for the content you make and the community you fostered. And I'm thankful for the genuine and intelligent people who have stayed around you. I love this community.
This video gave me confidence boost when u said best players know to adjust their play style and load outs on the fly to for different solutions. This always me glad to see I’m not alone in that thinking , always changing my weapons and builds based off the enemies gear
"The range bar is largely irrelevant in this concept, because what matters is on the field behavior." I've known this concept for the longest time I think but couldn't put it into words until you did right there.
I come up with so many antimeta loadouts, but given that I'm a bow main they all revolve around bows the end result here is that I have four bows in my inventory at all times that I swap between in trials/banner and it works real well
remember when hand cannons had about 5-8 rounds max? we need to go back to that. the ammo is what stopped them from dominating so bad. also on the flip side. allot of SMG need ammo boosts. not by crazy ammount but maybe ammo perks help them more but leave the base the same
I used to main HCs back when I first started in D2 on all my characters. It's not only after I started to main HC/Snipe on my hunter that I thought that maybe it's time to switch it up. So, I decided to learn different weapons on my Titan and my warlock based on how I play them. My hunter being an invis build made HC/sniping work with the lurk and unexpected picks. My Titan playstyle was locked in a very aggressive playstyle, hence I picked AR or Pulse w/ Shotgun or Fusion. For my warlock, it wasn't until I got the Ophidian gauntlets that I started picking up Scouts, Sidearms, SMGs making my warlock suitable for both long and short ranges. I feel like your playstyle is a huge factor on making whatever your loadout is work, and in turn allowing you to be more flexible in the Crucible.
I started watching this on PS4, but when I saw that range chart with all the archetypes I switched to laptop so I could A) screenshot it, B) share the video, and C) say thank you!!! Maybe this info’s old hat to a lot of players, but I REALLY needed this kind of illustration. Succinct and supremely helpful.
Engagement ranges is a topic that pvp content creators often gloss over so thanks for bringing this up in depth. When you apply effective ranges to most of D2s gunfights, it really adds a bit of a "rock, paper, scissors" layer to the game.
after BL and the many nerfs to both, I still run a sniper with either Not Forgotten or whatever SMG I'm feeling (usually Tarrabruh) and it's shockingly effective when I match people who don't think there are people who play aggressive with snipers anymore, they always think I'll be in the back of the map, popping heads, when in reality I'm in their faces missing 90% of my shots. Not Forgotten also exists in this weird limbo. it's a 140 with 140 range, but mag howl allows it to challenge at distances far outside that, but its sunset so no one uses it no matter how good it is.
This, just two days ago I started running Snipers, of course I suck with them, for some reason the one i like the most is Cloudstrike, i might miss, but when i manage to get that sweet 3 man kill its pretty amazing, at the moment trying to get more Snipers with Snapshot, I usually pair them with Auto-rifles, "The last breath" is pretty good one and with Rangefinder its a monster
while usually a hunter main, i tried void warlocking and quickly learned people arent used to someone blinking away then towards them. two hits with the last word then blinking in thier face for a melee is a solid tactic.
I found some success of playing carefully and passively with a 180 scout (with full auto perk) and a sidearm. But ever since someone recommended using No Time To Explain and Main Ingredient in pvp, it's difficult to not just default to this loadout. It's so effective and requires little to no input from me as a player. On the flip side, I'm impressed with the bow-swapping loadouts that kept killing me in the past few weeks. They shoot once with any bow, then quickly switch to another primary for cleanup.
I need to learn this stuff now. For some reason, PvP has clicked for me this week. Took my IB kda from 1.6ish to 1.9 and went from Gold 2 to Platinum 2. Even accidently went into a Survival game yesterday instead of Momentum and decided to play it out. Ended up going 16-1. Been loving Crimson. I feel I've learned to pick my engagements better, which has helpep and have finally starting to get some map awareness.
The best thing I learned from my time in competitive card games if you have a problem dealing with something use it play that playstyle till you understand how it ticks at the moment you will be able to counter it nomad has a great point not only should you respect your opponent loadout respect your opponent if you don't see your opponent as a threat your going to die I think it is also important to realize just how fragile we are in this game and to learn how to take a punch the road to mastery is paved with many many deaths love your stuff nomad keep up the great work
A personal favorite of mine has been polaris. A 150 rpm TTK is pretty insane in this meta, and the ability to get the explosive burning round to basically 2 shot is great for 1v2s
Sometimes it's just fun to switch it up a bit, even though I'm doing terrible with a weapon I'm not comfortable with. The moments where you land kills and understand the weapon a bit more just feels great, even if it's just 2-3 kills.
what a great video, ho lee shet. I got the same conclusion after playing pvp casually, that you get your loadout and you can swap it out depending of the map and the style play of the adversaries.
The fact that this man made a visual spectrum encompassing every weapon and archetype to show effective engagement ranges, can we stop and appreciate that? Thank you Nomad, that will be a resource i will use frequently for years to come wether i need a reminder, or to explain weapon ranges to a friend, or to just plan out pairings
I was looking for this kind of video for the longest time. As a side arm player slug shot guns and especially chaperone even after the nerf is incredibly difficult to counter.
Honestly, for those looking for something new to play with. Try high accuracy bows + targeting mods. You'll get tons of hipfire crits that either 1 shot or put them in range for a quick sawp follow up. I used to run middle tree hammers & la monarque for a quick 2 shot crit+hammer combo on targets both mid to long range. It works surprisingly well if you learn how to land hits.
@@seb5542 I find accuracy more useful since bows only have 1 shot, but im am also on PC. Honestly tho the best stat is the one that feels best for you.
@@lastwymsi stability on a bow reduces reticle shake when held past perfect draw, it increases the forgiveness time for perfect draw and how long you can hold the draw on a bow before it automatically just fires. It's a very important stat. Maximizing accuracy and stability to be the best for bows.
I spent so much time using meta stuff that any time I deviated from it I would end up doing poorly. Learning one's play style and shaking up your loadout can really help with improving your own performance. I started using SMGs this past week after watching a bunch of CoolCheese's videos and I've never played better than after making that switch.
Rapid fire fusions and high cal pulse rifles are fantastic counters to HC+shotty in this sandbox and in 6v6. You can also use it in 3v3, but you need to make sure you still move with your team and team shoot. Playing slow is much harder in 3s than 6s, and the best counter in 3s is effective team play - regardless of your loadout. In my view - the weapon meta is as balanced as it’s ever been. HC+shotty is not as oppressively dominant as it has been in the past. However, abilities are also a key point of counter to the meta (looking at you shatterdive!)
Ye the balance between nearly all weapon archetypes is great right now. Big compliments to Bungie for making it work, feels nice to not have to run HC/SG 24/7.
I've achieved this with my Darkest before got over 1500 kills in pvp. Handcannons, smg, snipers and even the mythical Vex gets slapped by my bad boy. All the above has became my beaches. Good one Nomad keep it up.
My iron banner last week was much more different, started off badly due to me wanting to try something different, went to stasis warlock with dmt cartesian, didnt feel the stasis, felt like i was slow, so usually i would go to top tree dawn for the speed, but i wanted to try something purple, i tried blink, had a lot of fun with blinking in then just blasting, instead of using nova warp, i tried something i havent touched since y1, devour, it was life saving in many cases, helped me survive more encounters, left me ready for the next engagement hp wise and it just let me play more boldly Swapping off the fatebringer and merciless felt weird for the first few games, but slowly i got used to both cartesian and main ingredient, how their burst are different, and how dmt can act both as a long ranged hitter and a close range blaster, it was a slow but worth it start, definitely might swap off dmt for something else, and maybe even use a sniper again after not using one since early y3
Great video as always, Nomad. Have you ever made a video guide for people who are looking to switch from controller to M&K? I feel like you’d nail it with your approach to things.
I use the point of the stag and a random Shotgun. Covers me most of the time. Also the leviathans breach is just a sleeper for multikills. Had multiple triples with just one shot
I do appreciate this discussion includes play style and not just talking about weapons…and ending there. I have used Chaperone/Trustee as my go-to weapon choices for a while now (even before Chappy started to show up in the Trials weapons meta) Sure I give a pulse or hand cannon or something else a go every once in a while, but I usually gravitate back to this. While it technically doesn’t cover the entire range spectrum, coupled with an “outside looking in” play style (credit to CoolGuy from whom I heard that phrase), it can be very effective. Rotate around the outside of map playing lanes and looking for assists and elims. Pull out Chaperone if someone rushes and down them before they know what happened. Great players can still outplay this, but is still can be very effective on nearly all maps and in all modes.
for shotguns use LW or an smg because these weapons ranges are just out of shotgun range but under the range of a HC. for slugs 600 rpm smg or 750 rpm/ 720 rpm autos and smgs.
Very astute observations Mr. Nomad, I always take a piece of knowledge or two even being an experienced player. Can never learn or know too much, another well put piece of information for all! Well done!
as an off meta build I like to run Le Monarque and either the IB smg or the riiswalker just to counter close range rusher. but it takes like in the video mentioned time to learn yet the reactions of salty enemys is the best factor of this build
I like pulse rifles, and then I tried using Thorn for a few matches I did decent, but sometimes my aim was off. Then, I decided to try Dead Man's Tale... and I haven't looked back. I flip between that, Darkest Before, and Messenger for primaries.
Been taking a strange approach this season with Darkest Before and Eye of Sol. Plus the 'lack' of close range has essentially forced me to improve my positioning, melee and grenade usage. (Mainly sticking to Bottom GG, but hey Arcstrider is also been hilarious)
Sir Nomad, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks for the insightful video and your updated range chart. I think I'll blow that up and frame it on the wall. It's working art. :)
The Melo is my sleeper pick for autos that slap. Recoil is manageable and dependent on the roll stability can be quite good. Currently running on with Heating Up/Harmony combined with Traveller's Choosen and it's outright evil. Get a kill with TC, regen some ability energy, swap to Melo and melt the next guy in 0.5 seconds. Harmony is a game changer.
One note is that I would split the mid lane in half. The further ranges are dominated by hand cannons, but smg's demolish everything in the front half of that
Thanks to week 2 of Trials this season I have absolutely fallen in love with the pairing of Multimach and Contingency Plan. I've had some amazing games with the pairing, and it's been a nice break from my standard Hawkmoon/sniper (or fusion) loadout.
Pre-Lost, Glacioclasm or Exile's Curse were my go-tos. Since the changes this season Ive been using a Main Ingredient I had vaulted with under pressure and range finder. Stat wise, it's every bit equal to that Xur roll from a couple weeks ago but, range finder always catches people that think they're just far enough.
I can relate to this. basically since early chosen/late hunt I've been a convert of the church of Peacekeepers. I have several 'loadouts' for dealing with various types of opponents/maps. Been building more specific loadouts to play better on certain maps against specific playstyles I go up against so often HC/Shotguns? like you said, my Iron Reach Multi Mach and Thresh Cartesian or Duality Bunch of NTTE and Stag Rifts? Witherhoard and Shayura's (Im still amazed at the number of GOOD players who will refuse to leave their rift even with a witherhaord pool chewing their ankles up) Scout Rifles and Snipers camping in the back? Friction Fire+Blinding Nade truth teller Just messing around in Control/Clash and want some sick clips to post on the clan discord? Recombination Heritage + Tarrabah.
Destiny 1 and 2 I’ve always been a anti meta player and it has honestly both been a blessing and a curse I have 135 days worth of play time and have always been a diamond elo player I can honestly say me never picking up a shotgun and very very rarely using a hand cannon has made me adapt in a way that only others who have done the same can understand it makes your movement so much better when you’re not just a peak shot hand cannon player and you can almost call every single players movement out before it happens.
Honestly Nomad, recently I've been loving my Adept Hung Jury, and utilizing the second part of your antimeta playstyles. (I do have Box Breathing on it btw)
Fav loadout rn is Wish Ender, Shayura’s Wrath. Confuses people pretty often thanks to functionality at nearly every range and very fast time to kill. Prime target with wish ender headshot and swap to shayura’s for cleanup. Target only has about 40 health left after the headshot so there’s lots of easy choices for finishing kills. Shinobu’s vow feels great with it. Can’t vouch for this on console cuz I don’t play it, very fun on pc
As someone who plays a with every archtipe of weapon, I feel that the best way to beat hand cannons is to flinch them with high-cals and better duelist weapons like 540 pulses, given the fact that 99% of the population doesnt know how to play hcs and will try to fight u in the open. The key is using the forgiveness of they provide+ good strafing + the flinch to make em miss a bullet or out ttk them.
See - this is a huge reason I do repeatable bounties. Hell, it’s why I rotate weapons used every few games or every other day. I learned a long time ago that Bungie loves to flip the table on their sandbox on a whim. Stuff I got very used to in D1 year 1 got flipped on its head and things just continued from there. I love my hand cannons. But I’ve never gotten to the point of relying on them after the big D1 nerf. Between that, map rotation and just how much it tends to tilt players (a lot of whom cannot cope with sudden changes in play styles) I tend to rotate what I’m using often. These last few days I’ve been bouncing back and forth between scout/pulse/SMG double primaries with the occasional hand cannon/slug shotgun thrown in. It mixes things up and keeps the game interesting.
So in my haste, I totally left Trace Rifles, Bows and a few others out of that graphic. I'll update shortly and edit this comment with the amended version. EDIT: here you guys go! twitter.com/AscendantNomad/status/1444368339220971521
Was playing on stadia and struggling because slight input lag and bad fov, so I went with the Jade Rabbit, a submachine gun and a bubble titan. Honestly did really well lol
Doing this is what killed my K/D because of how often i needed to learn/relearn weapon architypes but on the flip side of the coin, ive never had so much fun in the crucible before!
Great Video Nomad! Slight question though, sidearm damage falloff can be from 14-19 meters archetype pending so wouldn’t they be in the category AFTER 6-11 meters?
one of the most fun anti meta builds i run is bow + sidearm, shits on shotguns before they get close, kills hand cannons at range, and combined they have a great ttk
I've actually been using a variant of the long-range anti-meta recommendation almost exclusively lately--No Time and a Sojourner's Tale. I still suck, but I've really been enjoying how it plays.
My loadout changes with the day and with what I’m feeling, like some days it’s hand cannon shotgun, some days it’s pulse fusion I will say that meta options usually don’t end up being my mood since it’s not fun for me when I’m using something I see in PvP all the time
There's something I feel a lot of people forget in regards to auto rifles in the anti-meta conversation... They play in hc ranges, and sure they aren't as good at peeking or aerial shooting, but they're way better at teamshotting imo, and deal way more flinch, and we even have 1 600rpm in each slot rn that can roll HIGH CALIBER ROUNDS for even MORE flinch with a side of range... And every AR has a matching or better ttk when compared to hand cannons, while also being more forgiving. If you are using an AR and you manage to force a sustained engagement with a hc user, usually by aggressive flanking and repositioning so they cannot play around the nearby cover, you win by default. In an open gunfight without cover, the AR always wins. This is easier said than done, however, with abilities being the way they are, they *must* be factored into gunplay, and well... With things like warlock rifts and titan barricades making locking down in an open area and daring anyone to challenge you there more of an option, and Grenade spam builds allowing you to force enemies out of their cover easily, along with GLs further amplifying that... Well, I've had great anti-meta success with a GL, AR, and top tree voidwalker with Contraverse hold.
You didn't mention adaptive autorifles (600) in the chart. I always have a doubt that 600 smg better than 600 autos? Which one to go for in mid to long range.
I've been running no time with Zealot's reward and athrys' for so long now. If nothing else, it's kinda funny to see more and more people running no time and having to swap to what I know completely destroys it. It feels almost like I've got a set that has no downside on any map, the rapid fusion charges so fast I can hold S and take out most shotgunners by just.. not.. engaging them. If they try to hide around a doorway I just chuck a knife and it's another kill. If I've needed to sweat, I always just bring out pally and a godroll fractathyst, but those have spent so long gathering dust in the vault I'm not sure I know how to use them anymore honestly
I went on an absolute rampage for about 2 months using what felt like nothing but AoS, now for whatever reason I just can't get on with it again. It feels good but I can't hit my shots and control my recoil like I could before and I'm doing nothing different now. Super frustrating. Also I find any pulse flinched HC's the hardest, so if I see a full team of HC's I whip out Gridskipper or Messenger for the W.
that aztecross intro in the beginning xD
or the "Simple in practice, EXTREMELY difficult in theory" LMAO
“So you want to play against the meta?”
No I just used a Multimach for an entire season and a half and now I don’t know how to aim with a hand cannon anymore. I need to play against it.
I feel that
do people not consider multimach in the meta? that shit paired with my oath is insane
LMFAO THIS IS TOO TRUE
Well i dont speak for all console players but i dont see many subs in pvp on console. I see them alot when i play with my pc mate though
Truth is, I haven't played with HCs in so long that I've basically forgotten how to aim them.
SMGs and Pulses also feel great to use and are what I'm more accustomed to right now for PVP.
I was in the same place kinda but handcannons have much aim assist it only takes a game or two to start doing well with them. Like when xur gave out that dire promise I felt like I couldn't miss.
same, im awful with handcannons but i can easily get many kills with auto rifles and sidearms
same here, used to 3tap consistently and was a meta slave hunter hc+shotgun main, spent 3 months playing other games and now I just cannot aim hand cannons LMAO
Im okay with this the handconnon meta was very boring tbh
I don't fear the guy having a 3.0 kd with a handcannon and shotgun, I fear the people having a 2.0 kd with anti meta weapons because how do you counter something that you play against once in 20 matches
Lol I almost have 2.0 running well of 'you have to kill me instantly if you want me to die' and the other day this guy I started playing with was asking "were you the one with the well" was so funny to be recognised for my absolutely annoying play style
@@iamrazor9831 This has been my goal this season: to make Well's tree a thing to be feared. XD
I fear if they have gilded flawless or unbroken
@@kingawesome5219 No. They're merely competent most of the time. What you should _really_ fear is the triple-stacked gilded Flawless/Unbroken teams in 3v3 matchmaking, because they can range from competent to god-level, _and_ they coordinate well with each other. 95% of the time, this is a blowout GG.
Allow me to introduce myself hehehe. This is my strategy exactly I pick the weapons people are used to playing against. K/D 2.7
3:00 2,000 hr. in the game and still that range graphic is a really cool and novel visual representation of optimal ranges, useful to even experienced players because of how thoroughly and cleanly it organizes that information
Vid easily earned a like off that diagram alone, keep up the good stuff Nomad
Yea, I've got 3 and a half thousand and this guy pretty much nails everything on the head this video
Can confirm with the adjustment period, I wore syntho's for years, I still miss my melee thinking I'm in range.
Help! I switch from Phoenix Cradle to Syntho on Titan and Karnstein Armlets to Ophidian Aspects and can’t take them off
Sometimes I forget that my Peacekeepers are Lion Rampants.
I did this with Transversive. Switch to the stag. Sprint towards an enemy to clean up thinking my shotty reloaded go to fire...oh shit
I feel you there, still salty about shoulder. Charge, I paired it up with a hard hitting scout to pester all sorts at range, auto rifles about 600 RPM so it's got SMG output but the range to back it up.
Since it got killed I get so dam salty about hunters oneshot melee kills and instantly getting their melee back and Thiers is a headseaking no range falloff and can be chucked around corners blindly. Yeah I call BS there.
I am still rocking that scout mind you and with todays changes.... Ohh 3 shot kills
"Like exuberantly pressing the like button, like your mother taught you right." Nomad I fucking love you.
I had to pause the video because I was laughing so hard at this. I slapped that like button.
This video could have just been one screen that says "Le Monarque."
Honestly, this weapon has the unique power to throw a wrench into literally any meta.
I've had SO much fun with LeMon this season. (I've also been amused when the opposing team figures out I'm using it and drops me with a sniper - they learn and adapt, so I have to as well) While it doesn't always one-shot an enemy, I can't tell you how many times I've chipped them down to like 10-20% and a team mate does the cleanup. It's lovely. Go invis, pop out, drop an enemy, then run for dear life haha.
if we could put a quick access sling on it.
@@MusMasi icarus grip
Just wait 500 years for me to get a catalyst. Hopefully it does something to increase ad clear potential like not requiring and precision hit to trigger the poison cloud or something
Oh yes Le Monarque really helps me take down some annoying meta users. I'm glad I can use it with my Fatebringer too
Since the first week of trials this season, I've started to respect bow users. At first I always scoff at them but then when the time came where skilled bow players would almost instantly get rid of my shields every time i peek out of cover, I've started using bows myself and man it's actually pretty fun quickswapping bows and primaries from time to time.
I’m honestly surprised seeing bow users in trials and even more surprised there are players who respect bow users by not tbagging them because of their loadout
Bows have been consistently Anti-meta (as long as the meta is hand cannons). They out range them, and peak shot even harder than a hand cannon. Throw in monarque and a damage buff and it's essentially an infinite ammo sniper. The playstyle is harder to use, and it way more limited than a hand cannon. But damn is it effective if you learn it.
@@puthenveetilnoel I’ve tried a few buffs damage buffs but I just prefer not to use them due to how inconsistent they are to setup either requiring a mod build like charged with light, ability builds like Titan sunspots or pre-nerf whisper of hedrons (used the most with cold snap grenades), and abilities that revolved around map layouts mainly bubble, well, or empowering rifts on lanes or around corners. Besides if I’m not good enough at gun play, there is no point in me investing in builds that improve my abilities in a small amount of situations.
@@kingawesome5219 the damage buffs I typically run are high energy fire and emp rifts from an allied warlock. And I'm not building around them. They are a nice addition and it helps, but most of the time I'm using the bow hand cannon swap as is. If an orb happens to be there, or I get a lot of bow kills, I can 1 tap a few times. If not, no biggie. Building around the 1tap most of the time isn't a good idea. Playing normally and enjoying the 1 taps when you get them is the way lol.
@@puthenveetilnoel only buff I haven’t tried is Lumina with Boots of the Assembler
Just wanted to say thank you for all the fantastic videos. The quality recently has just been through the roof, keep up the good work. :D
Anti meta just means a different way of counter attacking, I'm a side arm scout rifle guy, and I'll make them work no matter the meta because I prefer them to other weapons.
Same
I’m terrible with sidearms, but always appreciate a fellow scout user
like mida , wormwood in D1
I've been so used to pairing scouts with a fusion that I forgot about sidearms. Might need to give this a try
@@alkhemiss Traveler's chosen and Rat King can put some work in, and if your using stasis with rat king, use Graviton forfeit to make some sneaky plays. Cheers dude.
Is no one gonna talk about that great transition at 4:25 great content as always
Editor here: Glad you caught that! 😀
The Cross reference though... I love it. Its dope how close the community is. Nice vid
i was recommended by SO many ppl to watch ur vids because im dead set on getting better at d2 pvp and i get why now! excellent content. thank you!
You got a topic that is often very confusing to understand and transform it into a very straight forward manner. High level quality content. Thanks for this!
Always had a picture of the different engagement ranges in my head, but to see someone actually make it. Beautiful.
I think the shake up in my weapon usage really helped me in trials last week, when Xur sold that Main Ingredient. I normally run a handcannon shotgun, but I would always get out gunned by opposing H&S users,. When I got that fusion, I decided to try it out in trials, *without* practicing with it first. I would end up being the one to shoot out hunters in the air, and to break titans barriers when they wanted a rez. I ended up with the most kills in the games, going flawless for the first time, on the first card.
Ive been watching this repeatedly trying to soak up as much info, just like many others are I am sure. But this time I want to say thank you nomad. The way your clear and concise yet still humorous. You try your best to truly teach us. I am thankful for the content you make and the community you fostered. And I'm thankful for the genuine and intelligent people who have stayed around you. I love this community.
This video gave me confidence boost when u said best players know to adjust their play style and load outs on the fly to for different solutions. This always me glad to see I’m not alone in that thinking , always changing my weapons and builds based off the enemies gear
"The range bar is largely irrelevant in this concept, because what matters is on the field behavior."
I've known this concept for the longest time I think but couldn't put it into words until you did right there.
I come up with so many antimeta loadouts, but given that I'm a bow main they all revolve around bows
the end result here is that I have four bows in my inventory at all times that I swap between in trials/banner and it works real well
Hey mate I’m a bow main as well we should play sometime
remember when hand cannons had about 5-8 rounds max? we need to go back to that. the ammo is what stopped them from dominating so bad. also on the flip side. allot of SMG need ammo boosts. not by crazy ammount but maybe ammo perks help them more but leave the base the same
I used to main HCs back when I first started in D2 on all my characters. It's not only after I started to main HC/Snipe on my hunter that I thought that maybe it's time to switch it up. So, I decided to learn different weapons on my Titan and my warlock based on how I play them. My hunter being an invis build made HC/sniping work with the lurk and unexpected picks. My Titan playstyle was locked in a very aggressive playstyle, hence I picked AR or Pulse w/ Shotgun or Fusion. For my warlock, it wasn't until I got the Ophidian gauntlets that I started picking up Scouts, Sidearms, SMGs making my warlock suitable for both long and short ranges. I feel like your playstyle is a huge factor on making whatever your loadout is work, and in turn allowing you to be more flexible in the Crucible.
I started watching this on PS4, but when I saw that range chart with all the archetypes I switched to laptop so I could A) screenshot it, B) share the video, and C) say thank you!!! Maybe this info’s old hat to a lot of players, but I REALLY needed this kind of illustration. Succinct and supremely helpful.
I sure loved this video!! The intro was exceptionally well written, the Aztecross joke, the actual recommended build. 10/10, A++
That range graphic is amazing. Well done putting that together.
holy shit the music in the background along with the high quality content! Thank you youtube for recommending this to me. Subscribed!
Engagement ranges is a topic that pvp content creators often gloss over so thanks for bringing this up in depth. When you apply effective ranges to most of D2s gunfights, it really adds a bit of a "rock, paper, scissors" layer to the game.
after BL and the many nerfs to both, I still run a sniper with either Not Forgotten or whatever SMG I'm feeling (usually Tarrabruh) and it's shockingly effective when I match people who don't think there are people who play aggressive with snipers anymore, they always think I'll be in the back of the map, popping heads, when in reality I'm in their faces missing 90% of my shots. Not Forgotten also exists in this weird limbo. it's a 140 with 140 range, but mag howl allows it to challenge at distances far outside that, but its sunset so no one uses it no matter how good it is.
This, just two days ago I started running Snipers, of course I suck with them, for some reason the one i like the most is Cloudstrike, i might miss, but when i manage to get that sweet 3 man kill its pretty amazing, at the moment trying to get more Snipers with Snapshot, I usually pair them with Auto-rifles, "The last breath" is pretty good one and with Rangefinder its a monster
while usually a hunter main, i tried void warlocking and quickly learned people arent used to someone blinking away then towards them. two hits with the last word then blinking in thier face for a melee is a solid tactic.
Thanks!
I found some success of playing carefully and passively with a 180 scout (with full auto perk) and a sidearm. But ever since someone recommended using No Time To Explain and Main Ingredient in pvp, it's difficult to not just default to this loadout. It's so effective and requires little to no input from me as a player.
On the flip side, I'm impressed with the bow-swapping loadouts that kept killing me in the past few weeks. They shoot once with any bow, then quickly switch to another primary for cleanup.
I need to learn this stuff now. For some reason, PvP has clicked for me this week. Took my IB kda from 1.6ish to 1.9 and went from Gold 2 to Platinum 2. Even accidently went into a Survival game yesterday instead of Momentum and decided to play it out. Ended up going 16-1. Been loving Crimson. I feel I've learned to pick my engagements better, which has helpep and have finally starting to get some map awareness.
I can't believe you only have 60K subs. Great content, really helpful to deal with the meta!
The best thing I learned from my time in competitive card games if you have a problem dealing with something use it play that playstyle till you understand how it ticks at the moment you will be able to counter it nomad has a great point not only should you respect your opponent loadout respect your opponent if you don't see your opponent as a threat your going to die I think it is also important to realize just how fragile we are in this game and to learn how to take a punch the road to mastery is paved with many many deaths love your stuff nomad keep up the great work
A personal favorite of mine has been polaris. A 150 rpm TTK is pretty insane in this meta, and the ability to get the explosive burning round to basically 2 shot is great for 1v2s
Would love to see a video about working as a team!
Sometimes it's just fun to switch it up a bit, even though I'm doing terrible with a weapon I'm not comfortable with. The moments where you land kills and understand the weapon a bit more just feels great, even if it's just 2-3 kills.
what a great video, ho lee shet. I got the same conclusion after playing pvp casually, that you get your loadout and you can swap it out depending of the map and the style play of the adversaries.
The fact that this man made a visual spectrum encompassing every weapon and archetype to show effective engagement ranges, can we stop and appreciate that?
Thank you Nomad, that will be a resource i will use frequently for years to come wether i need a reminder, or to explain weapon ranges to a friend, or to just plan out pairings
I was looking for this kind of video for the longest time. As a side arm player slug shot guns and especially chaperone even after the nerf is incredibly difficult to counter.
Honestly, for those looking for something new to play with. Try high accuracy bows + targeting mods. You'll get tons of hipfire crits that either 1 shot or put them in range for a quick sawp follow up. I used to run middle tree hammers & la monarque for a quick 2 shot crit+hammer combo on targets both mid to long range. It works surprisingly well if you learn how to land hits.
Just make sure you have decent stability on the bow.
@@seb5542 I find accuracy more useful since bows only have 1 shot, but im am also on PC. Honestly tho the best stat is the one that feels best for you.
@@lastwymsi stability on a bow reduces reticle shake when held past perfect draw, it increases the forgiveness time for perfect draw and how long you can hold the draw on a bow before it automatically just fires. It's a very important stat. Maximizing accuracy and stability to be the best for bows.
I spent so much time using meta stuff that any time I deviated from it I would end up doing poorly. Learning one's play style and shaking up your loadout can really help with improving your own performance. I started using SMGs this past week after watching a bunch of CoolCheese's videos and I've never played better than after making that switch.
I love how rare you see a bow, that it’s not even on the chart, but I could understand where it could land
Rapid fire fusions and high cal pulse rifles are fantastic counters to HC+shotty in this sandbox and in 6v6. You can also use it in 3v3, but you need to make sure you still move with your team and team shoot. Playing slow is much harder in 3s than 6s, and the best counter in 3s is effective team play - regardless of your loadout.
In my view - the weapon meta is as balanced as it’s ever been. HC+shotty is not as oppressively dominant as it has been in the past.
However, abilities are also a key point of counter to the meta (looking at you shatterdive!)
Ye the balance between nearly all weapon archetypes is great right now. Big compliments to Bungie for making it work, feels nice to not have to run HC/SG 24/7.
I've achieved this with my Darkest before got over 1500 kills in pvp. Handcannons, smg, snipers and even the mythical Vex gets slapped by my bad boy. All the above has became my beaches. Good one Nomad keep it up.
My iron banner last week was much more different, started off badly due to me wanting to try something different, went to stasis warlock with dmt cartesian, didnt feel the stasis, felt like i was slow, so usually i would go to top tree dawn for the speed, but i wanted to try something purple, i tried blink, had a lot of fun with blinking in then just blasting, instead of using nova warp, i tried something i havent touched since y1, devour, it was life saving in many cases, helped me survive more encounters, left me ready for the next engagement hp wise and it just let me play more boldly
Swapping off the fatebringer and merciless felt weird for the first few games, but slowly i got used to both cartesian and main ingredient, how their burst are different, and how dmt can act both as a long ranged hitter and a close range blaster, it was a slow but worth it start, definitely might swap off dmt for something else, and maybe even use a sniper again after not using one since early y3
Great video as always, Nomad. Have you ever made a video guide for people who are looking to switch from controller to M&K? I feel like you’d nail it with your approach to things.
I use the point of the stag and a random Shotgun. Covers me most of the time. Also the leviathans breach is just a sleeper for multikills. Had multiple triples with just one shot
Never thought I’d see another person who would run a bow with a shotgun. Tip my hat to you
I do appreciate this discussion includes play style and not just talking about weapons…and ending there. I have used Chaperone/Trustee as my go-to weapon choices for a while now (even before Chappy started to show up in the Trials weapons meta) Sure I give a pulse or hand cannon or something else a go every once in a while, but I usually gravitate back to this.
While it technically doesn’t cover the entire range spectrum, coupled with an “outside looking in” play style (credit to CoolGuy from whom I heard that phrase), it can be very effective. Rotate around the outside of map playing lanes and looking for assists and elims. Pull out Chaperone if someone rushes and down them before they know what happened. Great players can still outplay this, but is still can be very effective on nearly all maps and in all modes.
for shotguns use LW or an smg because these weapons ranges are just out of shotgun range but under the range of a HC. for slugs 600 rpm smg or 750 rpm/ 720 rpm autos and smgs.
Very astute observations Mr. Nomad, I always take a piece of knowledge or two even being an experienced player. Can never learn or know too much, another well put piece of information for all! Well done!
You intro music is always a blessing
as an off meta build I like to run Le Monarque and either the IB smg or the riiswalker just to counter close range rusher. but it takes like in the video mentioned time to learn yet the reactions of salty enemys is the best factor of this build
I like pulse rifles, and then I tried using Thorn for a few matches I did decent, but sometimes my aim was off. Then, I decided to try Dead Man's Tale... and I haven't looked back. I flip between that, Darkest Before, and Messenger for primaries.
Been taking a strange approach this season with Darkest Before and Eye of Sol. Plus the 'lack' of close range has essentially forced me to improve my positioning, melee and grenade usage.
(Mainly sticking to Bottom GG, but hey Arcstrider is also been hilarious)
Sir Nomad, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks for the insightful video and your updated range chart. I think I'll blow that up and frame it on the wall. It's working art. :)
Nice video. Imma prolly watch this one a few times. Lots of info. Shout-out to Fallout for directing me to your Twitch channel. You make good content.
The Melo is my sleeper pick for autos that slap. Recoil is manageable and dependent on the roll stability can be quite good. Currently running on with Heating Up/Harmony combined with Traveller's Choosen and it's outright evil. Get a kill with TC, regen some ability energy, swap to Melo and melt the next guy in 0.5 seconds. Harmony is a game changer.
One note is that I would split the mid lane in half. The further ranges are dominated by hand cannons, but smg's demolish everything in the front half of that
That's some super high quality content.
Thanks!
Nomad- "like exuberantly pressing the like button like your mother taught you right."
me- " I pressed several times until the thumb went dark again."
Thanks to week 2 of Trials this season I have absolutely fallen in love with the pairing of Multimach and Contingency Plan. I've had some amazing games with the pairing, and it's been a nice break from my standard Hawkmoon/sniper (or fusion) loadout.
You use hawkmoon fusion? Cool, me too. What fusion?
Pre-Lost, Glacioclasm or Exile's Curse were my go-tos. Since the changes this season Ive been using a Main Ingredient I had vaulted with under pressure and range finder. Stat wise, it's every bit equal to that Xur roll from a couple weeks ago but, range finder always catches people that think they're just far enough.
@@stevenbarcia8286 cool. I use an iota draconis I got with maxed range. It's slow but hits like a truck.
This video has some seriously old school Xbox Ahoy vibes…and it works tremendously well!
11 out of 10 for the content and the amazing content you have created. This is amazing
This was a fantastic video. Well done.
I can relate to this. basically since early chosen/late hunt I've been a convert of the church of Peacekeepers. I have several 'loadouts' for dealing with various types of opponents/maps. Been building more specific loadouts to play better on certain maps against specific playstyles I go up against so often
HC/Shotguns? like you said, my Iron Reach Multi Mach and Thresh Cartesian or Duality
Bunch of NTTE and Stag Rifts? Witherhoard and Shayura's (Im still amazed at the number of GOOD players who will refuse to leave their rift even with a witherhaord pool chewing their ankles up)
Scout Rifles and Snipers camping in the back? Friction Fire+Blinding Nade truth teller
Just messing around in Control/Clash and want some sick clips to post on the clan discord? Recombination Heritage + Tarrabah.
Destiny 1 and 2 I’ve always been a anti meta player and it has honestly both been a blessing and a curse I have 135 days worth of play time and have always been a diamond elo player I can honestly say me never picking up a shotgun and very very rarely using a hand cannon has made me adapt in a way that only others who have done the same can understand it makes your movement so much better when you’re not just a peak shot hand cannon player and you can almost call every single players movement out before it happens.
Honestly Nomad, recently I've been loving my Adept Hung Jury, and utilizing the second part of your antimeta playstyles. (I do have Box Breathing on it btw)
This was a very well put together video! I learned a lot
Fav loadout rn is Wish Ender, Shayura’s Wrath. Confuses people pretty often thanks to functionality at nearly every range and very fast time to kill. Prime target with wish ender headshot and swap to shayura’s for cleanup. Target only has about 40 health left after the headshot so there’s lots of easy choices for finishing kills. Shinobu’s vow feels great with it. Can’t vouch for this on console cuz I don’t play it, very fun on pc
I forgot about those big maps in Destiny 1. First Light and another one somewhere on Earth. It also had vehicles. I miss D1 ngl.
Amazing video, keep up the good work!
3:50
Finally, someone in the scene saying to bring back First Light. It's literally in the game rn c'mon Bungie
Also, videos like this make me happy I main Cerberus as one of my exotics. Just need a Contingency Plan!
As someone who plays a with every archtipe of weapon, I feel that the best way to beat hand cannons is to flinch them with high-cals and better duelist weapons like 540 pulses, given the fact that 99% of the population doesnt know how to play hcs and will try to fight u in the open. The key is using the forgiveness of they provide+ good strafing + the flinch to make em miss a bullet or out ttk them.
See - this is a huge reason I do repeatable bounties. Hell, it’s why I rotate weapons used every few games or every other day. I learned a long time ago that Bungie loves to flip the table on their sandbox on a whim. Stuff I got very used to in D1 year 1 got flipped on its head and things just continued from there.
I love my hand cannons. But I’ve never gotten to the point of relying on them after the big D1 nerf. Between that, map rotation and just how much it tends to tilt players (a lot of whom cannot cope with sudden changes in play styles) I tend to rotate what I’m using often. These last few days I’ve been bouncing back and forth between scout/pulse/SMG double primaries with the occasional hand cannon/slug shotgun thrown in. It mixes things up and keeps the game interesting.
So in my haste, I totally left Trace Rifles, Bows and a few others out of that graphic. I'll update shortly and edit this comment with the amended version.
EDIT: here you guys go! twitter.com/AscendantNomad/status/1444368339220971521
That's fair, its a lot of information to graph out in a digestible fashion. Thanks for the update!!
Are Adaptive auto rifles on there? or am I blind? lmao
might want to check for that as well, just in case.
What program did you use to make the graphic? It looks amazing!
Remember to add the Agressive Pulse Rifle Archetype to the graphic :D/
@@tenacity25 I was going to say, adaptive autos just totally aren't there either lol
My anti meta loadout is bow and slug. Literally no downside it's glorious
I mean I’ve always been a High-Impact AR + Shotgun/Fusion rifle user, so when my Mythoclast dropped I was a very happy chappy.
Was playing on stadia and struggling because slight input lag and bad fov, so I went with the Jade Rabbit, a submachine gun and a bubble titan. Honestly did really well lol
This video reiterates for me that my biggest problem is that I keep changing my weapon load out nearly every other week :(
Doing this is what killed my K/D because of how often i needed to learn/relearn weapon architypes but on the flip side of the coin, ive never had so much fun in the crucible before!
As Point Blank (before bullet drop) doesn't mean what we may think, I'd switch 0-6m : Close Range, 6-11m : Short Range. FWIW
A sidearm with good range perks can cover medium close as well! 👍🏻
best video I've seen on crucible. great day to you sir👍
Great Video Nomad! Slight question though, sidearm damage falloff can be from 14-19 meters archetype pending so wouldn’t they be in the category AFTER 6-11 meters?
Yeah I think sidearms are too close in this graphic
one of the most fun anti meta builds i run is bow + sidearm, shits on shotguns before they get close, kills hand cannons at range, and combined they have a great ttk
I've actually been using a variant of the long-range anti-meta recommendation almost exclusively lately--No Time and a Sojourner's Tale. I still suck, but I've really been enjoying how it plays.
My loadout changes with the day and with what I’m feeling, like some days it’s hand cannon shotgun, some days it’s pulse fusion
I will say that meta options usually don’t end up being my mood since it’s not fun for me when I’m using something I see in PvP all the time
Last night I went on an absolute rampage with a bow in IB… AND IT FELT GOOD
There's something I feel a lot of people forget in regards to auto rifles in the anti-meta conversation... They play in hc ranges, and sure they aren't as good at peeking or aerial shooting, but they're way better at teamshotting imo, and deal way more flinch, and we even have 1 600rpm in each slot rn that can roll HIGH CALIBER ROUNDS for even MORE flinch with a side of range... And every AR has a matching or better ttk when compared to hand cannons, while also being more forgiving. If you are using an AR and you manage to force a sustained engagement with a hc user, usually by aggressive flanking and repositioning so they cannot play around the nearby cover, you win by default. In an open gunfight without cover, the AR always wins. This is easier said than done, however, with abilities being the way they are, they *must* be factored into gunplay, and well... With things like warlock rifts and titan barricades making locking down in an open area and daring anyone to challenge you there more of an option, and Grenade spam builds allowing you to force enemies out of their cover easily, along with GLs further amplifying that... Well, I've had great anti-meta success with a GL, AR, and top tree voidwalker with Contraverse hold.
I’ve been using and enjoying Graviton Lance over the past few days and my career KD has risen by .12
Le Monarque paired with many other guns, hand cannons are great, is one of the best off meta choices imo
I use double smg (Shayura and multimach) on my titan with peacekeepers. I play aggressively and it works really well.
You didn't mention adaptive autorifles (600) in the chart. I always have a doubt that 600 smg better than 600 autos? Which one to go for in mid to long range.
This is great content, thank you
I honestly can’t get enough of the Messenger + Duality combo
I've been running no time with Zealot's reward and athrys' for so long now. If nothing else, it's kinda funny to see more and more people running no time and having to swap to what I know completely destroys it. It feels almost like I've got a set that has no downside on any map, the rapid fusion charges so fast I can hold S and take out most shotgunners by just.. not.. engaging them. If they try to hide around a doorway I just chuck a knife and it's another kill. If I've needed to sweat, I always just bring out pally and a godroll fractathyst, but those have spent so long gathering dust in the vault I'm not sure I know how to use them anymore honestly
just another stellar vid from nomad
I went on an absolute rampage for about 2 months using what felt like nothing but AoS, now for whatever reason I just can't get on with it again. It feels good but I can't hit my shots and control my recoil like I could before and I'm doing nothing different now. Super frustrating. Also I find any pulse flinched HC's the hardest, so if I see a full team of HC's I whip out Gridskipper or Messenger for the W.