A major thing for me is that Maxwell was the last generation of Nvidia GPUs to have a DVI-I/A with a proper RAMDAC for CRT monitors. I use a 980Ti on a WinXP32 gaming machine to play games from the 1998-2006 era with modded drivers. I have a DVI-I to VGA adapter on it and the image is absolutely crisp on 2D games. Maxwell will probably go down in history to have the best analog VGA quality ever. The RAMDAC on it can drive a large CRT to really high refresh without artifacts -- an issue I experience with "period correct" hardware. On the display port, I use a 1920x1200 LCD to properly scale 4:3-only games to 1600x1200.
@@philscomputerlab I would love a video on comparing analog VGA output quality on old video cards. I remember that RAMDAC MHz was a big marketing thing back then.
Yeah, for Nvidia. XP support cuts off with dx9 though, unless dxvk, and AMD had the better native dx9 hardware. I wonder if AMD's 290/390 cards work. Anything above a 960 is pretty much overkill for XP era games anyway. Not to mention there's actually no reason to run XP or XP hardware when the games are fully compatible with modern Windows and hardware. Only 9x is really worth having a dedicated box, because of specific hardware and software locked to 9x. You can emulate 3dfx glide, not powervr, not virge, not aureal3d. Descent 3 also has specific effects locked to a pentium 3. As a final note GOG does NOT support installing on XP/9x, and if you look at their history, the installers were encrypted to block Linux for a good while. So GOG was deliberately blocking you from using their versions on retro PCs and Linux. Outside of workarounds. They're not what they pretend to be.
@@JohnDoe-ip3oq What would they have to gain from blocking linux I honestly wonder. Like it would be one thing if their games and/or the way they make them work on modern windows just happens to run into issues with linux, but intentional encryption is another issue altogether.
Hey, Phill. Just some new information for XP users. Nvidia Drivers 344.11 (which are XP only), they support both GTX 970 and 980 by default. No need to mod them. Althou, Nvidia page doesn't show them in official list, driver files contain all information needed to instal it in legacy way :) Cheers!
Hey, I have a Quadro K620 and I can't get it to work right. I installed an older driver than this but I'm having major issues. For example Minecraft is telling me "No OpenGL context found" and that I have bad drivers. Do you know if this supports the k620 and if this would solve my issue?
Heh, I appreciate the shout-out. Wasn't expecting that and glad to help. I've not tried patching drivers for Windows XP yet because my WinXP retro gaming PC is running a GTX 460 and seems to work but I have a GTX 650 Ti in a different machine that could benefit from this patching technique. Thank you!
Awesome video as always. Quadro M6000 has so much untapped potential for gaming, I'm glad this channel continues pushing its retro technology to its limits.
I used the exact same procedure to get my FX 5900 ZT up and running on Windows 98 with the 45.23 driver recently. That version was released a full 13 years before 368.81, so I guess Nvidia never considered it worth blocking people from doing this.
They haven't bothered to change the control panel UI in 23+ years either. Kind of sad when you consider the RTX 4090 has the same control panel interface that the Riva TNT2 did. More so because it wasn't even good back then either.
@@bdhale34 Even on a relatively modern machine (roughly the same age as the hardware used in this video) the control panel is still laggy and unresponsive at times, too. Like, are you kidding me?
Love all the 9x & xp content! I might have to get one if those first my High-end xp rig. It's got a i7 4790, 4gb ram, gtx 960 2gb and S/blaster xf-i SB0820 My lower end rig for older stuff is a pentium 4 650, 1gb ram, 8800gts 640mb and S/blaster SB0410
Yeah. Disable hyper-threading and turn off two of the cores, you'll get a 4.4GHz beast with the 4790K. Especially when you couple a very fast SSD with it. And later, if you can get your hands on it, compare the performance difference between the Quadro M6000 and the GTX Titan X.
Totally agree on hyperthreading, no XP game should benefit from it and some might even get slower. But I don't see why disabling cores, turning it into the equivalent of a Pentium G with more cache would be useful. I'd just keep all cores on, turning it into an i5, should give the performance and width to run basically everything.
Another Great Video. Thank you for this, It's given me some ideas for a future XP build. I'm currently rocking 2 x GTX 295 in my XP beast. Not that it even needs that. Honetly I mostly play games from 1997 to 2010 at the latest. Modern stuff is almosted wasted on me.
Wew 2x gtx 295 is quite power hungry. When using a single gpu die on the gtx 295 a gtx 750 ti is about 45% faster it seems. Personally I'd probably go with a gtx 950 rather then the 960 if I'm going with an overkill build. Though my dell inspiron 6000 laptop does play the games id want too run every once in a while just fine. Pentium m @ 1.5 ghz 1.5 gb ram & ati x300 graphics, for colin mcrae 1 for example. (900 series for a bit better display & dsr support & lower powerdraw then something like a gtx 460 or 770) Specially for earlier era games it's basically almost all cpu anyway unless you are running nglide,dgvoodoo emulation at like 4k resolution or 1440p in some games.
You can use wineD3D for windows or onecore api to make WXP run modern games provided that it uses upto vc redist 2012-2015. You could probably keep an entire pc offline with XP installed just for the sole purpose of running gog games. I got the latest build of chromium running on windows xp under onecore api which is a patch not too dissimilar to kernelEX for w95-2k.
I have this WindForce GTX 960 (or very similar). I like how compact and still quiet it is. Maxwell has h.265 video decoding (only on Windows NT 6). The Quadro Titan is giant, leaving no room for HDDs and needs an 8-pin. On the 960 the VGA does have ghosting, despite it being on the main board. Modifying drivers on NT 5 is no big deal. They added the certificates later.
I remember doing something similar to this to get Quadro drivers running on Geforce cards. The Quadro cards were always so much more expensive than the equivalently Geforce card, and apparently the only difference is the drivers.
Don't both have the SLI connector? Should be possible to use them in SLI. Now the benefit of running dual GK110 or quad GK104 under XP is a different question.
Vanilla Windows XP (so the first release) does not support SATA if I remember correctly. You need a floppy with SATA drivers or maybe a USB stick (not sure). Also, Ivy Bridge HEDT is also supported on Windows XP.
The Nvidia Quadro m6000 is super expensive. I don’t know if the price went up after your video but they appear to be very sought after, at the same time there are lots of them available. Gtx 980 ti is also quite pricey, and the 960 is almost affordable. I found an ASUS gtx 950m for my Shuttle xpc at £21 but it needed a new fan (£8)This was a good find as they are generally quite a lot more. It’s useful for ipx cases with a low power draw and good performance. I’m glad to hear that it’s compatible with Windows xp. Thx.
You are spot on with the 4th gen Intel. After your earlier video on using this 3770 I put together a WinXP supercomputer using some leftover parts. Core i5 4690k. That is 4 cores (no hyperthread) with a mild overclock of 4.0GHz all core and DDR3 1600. Thew in a Dell OEM SB xFi titanium (SB880) and an AMD Radeon 6950 1GB card. I'm contemplating getting a 2nd matching 6950 for crossfire but I'm not sure yet if I want to deal with lag and stutter because the current setup is so silky smooth. Best part about the 6950 is that it uses has port which can output 1080p at 165Hz! (A 6950 is about the same performance as a 750ti)
nice, you gotta love those quaddros and a little file editing. my newest xp build is a q9450/780i with two gtx 960, just have to get the sli enabled. after ill try a couple 980 ti.
You're spot on about newer games, I'd say that most AAA-games since around 2016-18 are WAY over-produced? (I've played with PC's since 1980's, perspective helps sometimes;) So GOG saves a day in here too. Most games played in here are still from 1995-2015; Civ4/FalloutNV/etc and heavily modded. I'd say that sweet spot for XP-gaming GPU's is about nvidia gtx750ti/760, 770 runs too hot and gtx900-series is still often expensive for just casual retrogaming. AMD equivalent would be HD7000-series, especially 7750/7770/7850/7870-ones are quite nice. Speaking of CPU's, I'd select unlocked Intel 3000 or 4000 K-series and disable possible hyperthreading to lower temperatures. 3570k/3770k/4570k/etc. Some XP-era games can actually utilize 4 cores, but HT is useless with XP unless you have just 2-core/4-thread CPU. Btw, have you tested VGA-card overclocking with DOS-games like we did in 90's? If I remember correctly it helped quite a bit with Cirrus 542x/543x and S3-cards at the time.
Another tip I forgot to mention in my previous comment, I highly recommend all retro WinXP builds also have a Win7/10/11 drive or partition as well in a dual boot setup with the networking disabled in WinXP which is insecure now and shouldn't be connected to the internet. Having a modern Windows drive or partition to boot into provides some very important functions: 1) The ability to safely use the internet and download software, game installers, and other files straight into the WinXP drive or partition 2) The ability to run SSD TRIM commands on the WinXP drive or partition 3) The ability to perform any necessary maintenance tasks on the WinXP drive or partition such as drive imaging, cloning, virus scanning, etc. It's good to find a dual purpose for the WinXP machine. With an i7, 16GB RAM, a 980 Ti, and modern Windows support, it is a waste not to do anything with it. I have my "retro" (it's actually in a modern case) build running on Win10 as a dedicated file server and HTPC as its regular job, and boot into the WinXP and Win7 drives if necessary to run old programs and games. The 980 Ti is modern enough to have fan-stop and idle downclocking so it doesn't even make noise or use any more power than a low end GPU most of the time, but I wouldn't use a much older GPU for such a purpose as they used to be loud powerhogs at idle. In fact a 980 Ti can play most older games without even turning the fans on (or barely) and barely clocking up, making it straight up objectively better than a cheaper period-correct blow dryer power sucking GPU even if you think you don't need something that powerful for old games.
Retro machines are usually offline, no Internet connection. Trim is interesting. I spoke to SSD manufacturers and they assured me the modern drives do all this on their own.
@@philscomputerlab Yes, my point is by dual booting a modern OS, you can get them online and not have to go through the hassle of ferrying over files via USB drives or whatever people are doing. SSDs do internal garbage collection, but there are still benefits from OS TRIM commands. Though since SSDs don't run full speed under XP anyway, I doubt it will every be a major issue unless the SSD is an older model. Check out the following article: Ask Ars: “My SSD does garbage collection, so I don’t need TRIM… right?”
@@firstlast55555 Good points! A simple Live Linux would do the trick also. Yea that's what team group and crucial told me, but who knows. Maybe things have progressed? I've heard if Tiny10 or a similar name, a small footprint windows 10.
stop spreading this bullshit, you don't just magically instantly gain thousands of rootkits, viruses, and malware because you connected an outdated operating system to the internet unless you make the absolutely INSANE decision to connect it DIRECTLY to the internet without any kind of firewall between it and the internet, which you shouldn't do with ANY operating system, even a modern up to date one, if you have even an older router with a firewall though (which you should, no device should ever be connected directly to the WAN like that other then the router/firewall) it's absolutely fine though, just use an adblocker and avoid sketchy websites, just like you would on a modern os
Love seeing the older tech vids. I would like to update my XP build a bit more, but I am rocking a i72600k with 4gb ddr3 1600mhz, gtx 960, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum, and a asus board forget the number off hand. Works well at 1280x1024 @ 60fps... no problems really at all, but a bit better cpu would be kinda cool! Keep up the great work Phil!
The 2600K is already close to the limit of what has drivers for XP. You could get a 2700K or 3770K, as that is already the last platform with official XP drivers. And those are maybe 3-5% faster at best. But the oc headroom on these chips is still immense. I'm running my 3570K on 4.3 GHz and my DDR3-1600 on 2133. Seen a bunch of 2500K/2600K/2700K hit 5 GHz back then. You could easily get 20-30% more out of that i5 in those pesky low-threaded, CPU demanding games.
Thanks! I got a 1680v2, Rampage IV Extreme, 8x4gb 2000mhz ram, Creative Xfi Titanium Fatal1ty, and Titan X build I’m trying to get set up on Windows Xp as an ultimate XP/ 7 dual boot build. At some point I’m gonna get another Titan X for SLI
@@philscomputerlab I was on Vogons researching “the theoretical ultimate Xp build” years ago and ever since I slowly have been finding deals and putting it together. I got it all put together finally, once I get some free time I just gotta get the OS and drivers installed to finally test it out.
If I were going to attempt building an XP rig, I'd go with a Z390 Dark with an i9-9900K, 2-way Titan X (Maxwell) SLI setup, and Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD or ASUS Xonar Essence ST(X) sound card.
Oh geese, SSAA and the whole resolution beyond what is displayed was a whole rabbit hole for me many years ago now. Different combinations of SS and MS AA, NVidia super-resolution, just custom resolutions that the GPU scaled, and different injector ulitilies. I remember there were multiple spreadsheets and forum posts with tables that gave guidelines which combination of AA and SSAO (a shadowing thing) was best or problematic for which game. By far the best method was some injection utility that I don't remember the name of unfortunately (some kind of scaler maybe...). It could separate the UI layer from the rendering, and that way the UI could remain crisp being drawn to the native resolution without any forced AA, and the 3D rendered part could be superscaled. The drawback was, that you had to write specific configs for each game (depending on the game, this was not so difficult as you might presume), and the supported DirectX version was either capped at, or only 9. But more relevant to you: I have been forcing SSAA on games back in the day with my Geforce 750 Ti, so it should be available with other Geforce cards too. If you don't find it in the NVidia control panel, try the nvidiaInspector utility. It is an alternative UI for driver settings with more options.
Phil you are Amazing as usual!! I have some older motherboard combos that I play around with and i found that even win10 will work on many of them too. There is a certain rambus board I want to get someday but they are very scarce and downright expensive too! It would be nice to see what could run on these old boards besides win 95/98 but I never got that far because the board died on me. It was an ASUS P4T 533-R and I still have 2 sticks of Rambus 4800 32 bit which this stuff was very fast memory indeed.
I have an Intel D850GBAL socket 423 motherboard that i picked up a few years back as new old stock. I have it paired with 2GB PC800 RDRAM and a 1.9ghz P4. I used a PCI Sata card to enable use of an SSD and have tried a few different O/S. Windows 200 is my preferred and it runs flawlessly. XP is fine and runs reasonably well. Windows 7 was painful and i havent tried windows 10 yet. With windows 7 the CPU was pegged to 100% usage. I may give it another shot at some point once i finish a few other projects off (i have 3 socket 478, a 939, an AM2, 2 1366 and a 2011 all in various stages of completion).
Tweaking the drivers looks similar to when I had to modify Nvidia drivers for my Alienware M17X R3 to upgrade from a GTX 580M to a GTX 880M GPU in Windows 7. Never thought you could do it for WinXP but it makes sense.
True but the Titan XP is a higher performance tier card and only one generation older than the 2080 and they both do not support Windows XP. You will need a Titan X Maxwell to get the best performance in Windows XP.
i can confirm the modded drivers work , i tested on a b75 motherboard with a gtx 970 and xp ran fine with the card, from what i can tell with xp a rule of thumb seems to go with a gpu with half the memory of the operating system since xp can't see more than 3.5 i found 2 to be the most it ever needs
The peak performance for GPUs are oficially the GTX 960 and GTX 780 Ti. The 780 Ti is faster, but the 960 is more efficient and offers newer features. On the Radeon side the newest ones are Rx 200 cards, so R9 290X. But as shown, more powerful cards of (nearly) the same architecture would also work.
R9 280/280X are the last XP supported models, R9 290/290X are not. There are some drivers floating around the net claiming XP support for R9 290/290X but that simply is not true. There are no "AMD67B0" and "AMD67B1" entries in "Localizable Strings" section of the corresponding INF; no entries, no support. PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_67B0 = R9 290X (Hawaii XT, GCN 2.0) PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_67B1 = R9 290 (Hawaii PRO, GCN 2.0) AMD6810 and AMD6811 entries descibed as "AMD Radeon R9 200 Series" can be found, though. PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6810 = R9 370X (Trinidad XT, GCN 1.0) PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6811 = R9 370, R9370 OEM (Trinidad PRO, GCN 1.0) R9 370 is is about 5-10% less capable than, while R9 370X is on par with R9 270X. Just had to say that :D
Phil thanks for the useful information. As always very useful in practice. Maybe some day i will finally build ultimate XP/Vista DX9/DX10 PC powerful enough to run late DX9 and early DX10 titles
May be someone already mentioned it but yes you can enable the same AA options on any nvidia GPU with "NVIDIA Inspector" (But not the latest version, you need version which has built in profile inspector, newer version has it as a separate application, I don't remember the exact version unfortunately)
I have a K4200 in my ITX XP build using a 2 slot pci-e DTX motherboard. Needed a single slot video card and the k4200 seem to be the fastest one with a VGA port.
You could probably drive 2K(but not 4K) 60Hz out in analogue using the DVI socket with a VGA adapter in Windows XP, but that would bring up the issue of where the heck you'd find a capable monitor with VGA in.
As someone who is running a GTX 970 in a Windows XP/Vista/7 multiboot gaming PC, the one major issue I had with using a newer Nvidia card is that in a small handful of 3D games under XP, there are vertex explosion graphical glitches. These are the games I tested that had those issues: Extreme Bullrider Lego Island 2: The Brickster's Revenge Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider Missile Command (1999) Roller Coaster Factory Sega Rally Championship Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six I also had the same graphical glitches with a GTX 650 Ti in another PC, so this is very likely a driver issue.
I have another one for your list: Battlefield 2 On any nvidia driver v334.89 and later and Radeon driver v11.4 and later you'll get black spots if you put terrain quality on anything but low.
Hi, just discovered this video. I have quite a bit of experience playing older games with modern upgrades, both on current Windows and older versions. I have an i7/980 Ti WinXP build myself with these modded drivers. About 4K60 output through DisplayPort, that is unfortunately not possible in WinXP with any Nvidia GPU even though the Maxwell hardware and Windows XP OS both support it. The reason is due to the implementation of the DisplayPort specs in the Nvidia driver. DisplayPort supports different transmission modes with different bandwidth limits. The standard HBR mode of DisplayPort 1.0 only supports 8.64 Gbps which is enough for 1080p120Hz or 1440p90Hz or 4K30Hz. The later HBR2 mode of DisplayPort 1.2 supports 17.28 Gbps which allows for 4K60Hz, however Nvidia never bothered to add support for the HBR2 transmission mode in their Windows XP drivers. AMD did add HBR2 support for Windows XP (though this was in their days of rather bad drivers so the experience is annoying). The best AMD cards that support HBR2 and thus 4K60Hz on WinXP are the Tahiti GPUs, meaning the 7970, 7970 GHz Edition, and R9 280X (the R9 290X is NOT supported). Compared to the Maxwell line, these cards are somewhere between the 960 and 970 in performance, but at the 250W power draw of the Titan level cards, and performance varies wildly due to AMD driver performance in actual games, though they are still quite overpowered for any game old enough that you'd want to run it on XP rather than Win10/Win11 (which most late-era XP games run fine on, and most earlier games too honestly if you know how to fix them). The aforementioned annoying part of the experience is that you have to manually find and enable 4K at 60Hz in the AMD driver panel (it will probably default to something lower) with every boot because it won't remember the setting. There might be a way to fiddle around with custom resolutions or third party tools to make it stick but I'm not sure. As for the Nvidia supersampling modes, those have always been available on Geforce cards, just hidden. You can use Nvidia Profile Inspector to access them, though once upon a time Nvidia exposed more AA options through the normal Control Panel. I've been using them for well over a decade to run older games at pristine image quality. Those modes exposed on the Quadro aren't even all of them, just the mixed SSAA/MSAA modes. Nvidia offers pure SSAA modes 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 as well. Those are ordered grid SSAA, if you really know what you are doing you can even enable an obscure sparse grid supersampling mode though I don't recommend it for most people due to its many quirks. I play all my old games at 4K120HZ with 4x4 SSAA on a 3090 Ti and they look immaculate and you'd be surprised how demanding 20 year old games can be with those settings, there are a few I need to knock down to 3x3 SSAA actually. When forcing these high end driver AA options on Win10 or Win11, you need to make sure you go to the compatibility tab for the DX9 or older game and disable Fullscreen Optimizations. The Fullscreen Optimizations setting, which is enabled by default now and forces exclusive fullscreen games to run in a special hybrid borderless fullscreen mode, will arbitrarily lock many older games to 60Hz for no reason and block driver AA from working in some games as well (though not all). Another tip is that for some games you need to use "enhance" rather than "override" AA for it to work, override usually works but if it doesn't, always try enhance before giving up, and try different modes, sometimes SSAA works better than MSAA or vice versa. Hope this is helpful to some people!
Fantastic comment! I've been reading up ancient forum information on that NVIDIA Inspector and how it accidentally did FSAA in the early stages. It's a real rabbit hole and takes me more time to digest it all.
Used to do that when upgrading my beloved ASRock 4Core Dual-VSTA from my 6800 Ultra to accept a 7600GT AGP, then a 8800 PCIe under XP. Also rolled my own 1080p EDID settings to force FullHD on a 15" 1024x768 CRT. - _Mr. Squint_
I had that board...it allowed me to upgrade to 775 and still use my x1950 GT AGP, which I loved. I used that board with many different CPU and GPU. I also ended up on an 8800GT PCIe lol
@@AaronHendu I liked it so much I recently bought one (1str one fried) and upgraded it to a Q6600, very nice in spite of the slight FSB reduction. I also have the SATA version. _Certifiably nutz._
The last few month i am playing the Gothic series on a 775 system with ddr1 and agp slot using windows xp. 1680x1050 is doable with a Radeon 2600 xt. really enjoying that.
Oh, I have a (dead) board with that port combination with some freakish SiS chipset. Would make for some interesting benchmark scaling setup, but sadly dead.
Windows XP does not get along with modern display outputs (Display port or HDMI) I've found out at high resolution video gets errors and I couldn't get any refresh rate higher than 60hz. Using a Titan X with modified drivers. Display shows up as a TV. I was able to achieve was 1080p at 60hz on my Alienware OLED 175hz monitor via DP or HDMI.
I was trying to post this comment in reply to your comment under my other post, but it keeps disappearing after I post it. Perhaps TH-cam flagged it because it's long or something. I'll try to post it separately: Nvidia Inspector (now Nvidia Profile Inspector, previously the app did more stuff than tweak game profiles) is just a UI to expose everything that Nvidia themselves put in the driver. It goes through Nvidia's official NVAPI which Nvidia created so third party apps can access this stuff. People don't realize how much work the Nvidia driver team, for decades now, puts into compatibility options for older games that the game creators themselves long abandoned. It's why games (especially DX11 games but old stuff too) run so much better on Nvidia hardware and one of the reasons the Nvidia driver package is so huge. Nvidia has optimizations for thousands of games and you can view it all through Inspector. There are custom made 3D vision profiles (as in 3D glasses / 3DTV) for games from the 90s, with Nvidia developer notes. Through Inspector, you can mess around with everything, for example, there are numerous "compatibility bits" Nvidia has to help older games run, or fix something that was broken, and Inspector allows you to apply compatibility profiles Nvidia made for one game to another game, which can sometimes cause that second game to be fixed, or run better. I think what you are talking about is the "discovery" of sparse grid supersampling, or SGSSAA. Back in the DX9 and earlier days, when all games were forward rendered (and thus the driver can easily force AA), Nvidia implemented a lot of AA technologies through the driver. CSAA, MFAA, QAA, ordered grid SSAA, gamma correct MSAA, etc. At some point when games started using a lot of foliage, and before FXAA and post process AA was invented, there was a period where just forcing MSAA wasn't good enough because it didn't cover transparencies like foliage and chain link fences, and SSAA was too demanding, so Nvidia came up with transparency multisampling (TrMSAA) and transparency supersampling (TrSSAA) that only applied to transparencies, which was meant to be used in conjunction with MSAA. This TrSSAA implementation used a new sparse grid technique instead of ordered grid. So with 4xMSAA plus 4x TrSSAA you could get very good anti-aliasing coverage of then-modern DX9 games on par with SSAA but at a much lower performance cost. People using Inspector discovered if you combined TrSSAA with SSAA instead of MSAA, the driver would actually apply the sparse grid supersampling technique to the entire scene including polygon edges (meaning the ordered grid SSAA was being overridden into a new "SGSSAA"). This was actually a glitch and causes some blur under certain conditions, which can be offset by changing some other game profile options through Inspector. The end result is a new SSAA option that a lot of people liked because of its quality to performance ratio (it is less intensive than traditional SSAA). When Nvidia learned that enthusiasts liked this option, they decided not to fix the glitch and SGSSAA remains a secret unofficial driver feature to this day which some people consider a sort of holy grail option, though I don't bother with it anymore as modern GPUs are now powerful enough to easily run traditional SSAA on older games without issues. Starting with the DX11 generation and deferred rendered games, traditional AA during the internal render stage became inefficient and hard to implement, so everyone abanded traditional MSAA and SSAA research in favor of downsampling the final image from higher resolutions, outside of the "knowledge" of the game. So all of those wacky AA options are now relics accessible through Inspector. Because Nvidia is dedicated to backwards compatibility and never removes anything from its drivers, we still get to use all of it today. (though modern GPUs can no longer use the CSAA modes, but they are still there for older GPUs to use)
Very similar to my Retro XP PC. Mine is an i5-3570K, 8GB RAM DDR3 1600MHz (cause I dual boot WinXP/Win10), GTX 750 Ti, Creative X-Fi and the same Crucial SSD!
The only thing that makes that a "retro" set up is the fact that Microsoft build their modern and crappy OSes to deliberately lock out and "overbloat" set ups like that - I am using similar set ups to that, even Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad machines as perfectly good daily driver machines under Linux. Because I gave up on AAA gaming about a decade ago when "games as a service" kicked off, I don't need newer hardware than what you have there anyway - plus this age of hardware is extremely cheap on eBay at the moment due to the "mindless muppets" upgrading their PCs ready for Windows 11. But no complaints from me, I'll happily buy up there "hardware cast-offs".
I'm running a Core 2 as almost daily driver as well. It's my media system to have alongside the stronger gaming one. And with the hardware upgrade coming soon, the old system probably turns into pretty much the same op has there.
On the nvidia website there is a firmware update for displayport from GTX 700 to GTX 1000 with some fixes. Maybe it can fix the low refresh rate in 4k.
My XP/Vista/7/8/8.1 box is running a 4770K that auto-overclocks to 4.7Ghz and a 770GTX 4GB on a Z series motherboard and with 32GB of 2400mhz memory because that's what I had in the machine when I changed it out for a new machine. It runs all late XP and later titles that my main rig has issues with, extremely well.
i found the radeon hd 6970 is the ultimate all around windows xp card , it will play every game you can run on xp fine while supporting those old windows 98 games like incoming, colin mcrae rally , forsaken etc with no artifacts and rendering them as good as a riva tnt2 the terascale 2 cards have very good legacy support for older games on windows xp
Finally, I found one on TH-cam who is Gaming at 1440p or 4K on Windows XP and Nvidia Maxwell generation graphics card. I am planning to build SLI setup with two GeForce GTX 980Ti graphics cards and LGA1366 system. Not sure how Windows XP would handle SLI.
Okay that display port issue has my attention. 4k 60hz is give or take 18gbit per second and needs all four twisted pairs to be of identical spec and quality. For lower resolutions or lower hz signals you only need to make sure the first two pair of wires are up to spec so manufactures ignore or cheap out on the 3rd and 4th pair, it can be really frustrating because these junk cables make it into 4k monitor boxes all the time. I'd live boot Linux to confirm if its a driver issue or something else. I should add, I have a Fujitsu R9 255 2GB OEM running in XP pretending to be an AMD Radeon HD 8760 OEM in my XP machine. Similar process but you need the PCI device ID and just duplicate a few lines in the inf file. The software doesn't install but the 2d and 3d drivers work without a problem. You can do the same with up to a 280X and convince XP its a 7970 which is quite a bit faster than a 960.
The last nvidia card that I was able to test in WIndows XP with a mod driver was up to the GTX970... I think that from the 1000 series onwards it is no longer possible due to a hardware issue, saludos!
Nice tip about getting more antialiasing options with quadro cards, compared to geforce. What i don't like is widespread trend of reflashing bioses of quadro cards to make them basicaly geforce with different outputs. Have no idea what is benefit of that as drivers are almost same, but quadro's have more optimisations of Opengl enabled and looks like also more driver options. Still need to see video of what are benefits of flashing quadros....to me its plain stupid.
Sadly modern nvidia cards don't support CSAA anymore. In games where it worked, it was amazing, and in those games where it didn't work, it was as good as the MSAA level it's based on.
Alien vs Predator 1 doesnt seem to work with newer GPUs though technically its a Win98 game (released 1999). I found also that Max Payne 1 (2001) seems a bit picky also. Honestly anything over 144hz for XP gaming seems kind pointless to me. GTX 750 Ti is a nice quiet, low power consumption card that is still overkill.
Both AvsP and Max Payne runs great on modern hardware through Proton on Linux. (Max has one AMD bug with newer cpu but it is fixable and not related to OS) And yes, I like supporting old hardware and software.
@@philscomputerlab is this fake ? how can a GTX 1060 be displayed on device manager 1.bp.blogspot.com/-B9OWVlLdZ6k/XbVDYg_CShI/AAAAAAAACKg/tR58uXkqzUoCp68BgjDSCMpLlCNTvPYTACNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/J01zTS5.png
Excellent. Keep upgrading my xp retro pc as i get new parts. I currently have an Intel Pentium G3260 with 4gb of ram, ssd, and a GTX 550 TI. I have a GTX 970 but I don't want to waste it for XP since I use it on a W10 HTPC that I use as an xbox to play an xbox 360 controller from the comfort of my couch. I also have an i5 4400 cpu and an i7 4790 which I think are too much for xp. It never worked for me to have more than 2 cores in XP, I had to disable several from the affinity options or from the bios. I think it's a waste. On the other hand, I don't know if it's worth building a Windows 7 retro PC just yet. I think most of the games work on Windows 10 which is what I have on my main gaming pc. Maybe the day I upgrade my current rig, I'll dedicate the GTX 970 to XP. If I could use the GTX 550 ti on Windows 98 that would be great.
Hmmm .. I wonder if there's a way to get nVidia optimus working under XP. My notebook has HD3000 and a nVidia GT540m. But I'm unable to install the nVidia card. After some research I found out that the root cause of this is the lack of nVidia Optimus support under Windows XP. The official support begins with Windows 7, says google. But it has been wrong many times before. Given the fact that it's a software limitation I think its still possible to enable the deticated GPU somehow. Just need some sort of unoficcial "bridge" drivers to support optimus switchable graphics...
i had an issue similar to this with 4K only supporting 30HTz. Turns out it was our cables that were stopping it. We ended up using a default cable that came with the display (all of the other cables we had all stated were "4K Ready!" etc) and it allowed 60HTz on the first try. We had this with both HDMI and DisplayPort cables. Don't trust amazon when they say it's 4K!
@@philscomputerlab i'd still definitely look into another one as the cable may be of another standard or of a type unsupported by the card (if active or passive) then the card can handle. IIRC the quadro M6000 is DP 1.2 with no requirements as to the type of cable but as i said we had this exact issue in the past with our 2080 Super GPU in the Wife's PC. Refused to output 4K60 till we swapped to a "dumb" cable.
It would be a good use for my PCI heavy Z87 board, i5 4400 and GTX 650ti and another SoundBlaster Live!. I'd only need to buy a case and PSU to assemble the PC.
The AI itself isn't super impressive, but the way it's implemented in the game is just marvelous. It's not simply "throw enemy AI package number 5 in there", but everything is crafted to work together.
With that generation of motherboards, you can usually patch the BIOS to run NVMe drives. I had NVMe 3 Gen SSD running on my P68 V Pro Gen3 motherboard, running my old 2600K CPU. I wasn't running XP on it thou, I had it as my 2nd machine in the bedroom running Win10, and then Win 11, again a bit of work is needed to get Win 11 running on that period of hardware.
@@BaguetesGarage I know, I have a few different machines that boot from NVMe and my 2600k machine is by far the fastest. Not too sure if it's because the SSD is connected strait in to the PCIe slot, or if the BIOS is smaller on older machines, but it will boot to the login prompt in about 12 seconds.
@@yakacm older BIOS boot quickly and the boot drive will start faster than newer systems, my Ryzen 7 3700X takes around 30sec doing nothing when I press the power button, then it starts loading Windows.
Hear me out, I'm trying to get a GT 710 to work with my RTX 3080 and *avoid* using the old 400 series nvidia driver, but rather bring the GT 710 somehow in the Latest 3080 Driver. It's been hours, I'm still trying.. Is this possible ?
Is that performance necessary? No Is That Performance too much? There's no such thing as too much performance on your side. BTW, Sandy/Ivy Bridge (1155 Non-E) works perfectly on Xp.
The Quadro M6000 is pretty expensive on ebay while the Tesla M40 is pretty cheap. I wonder if there's a way to use the M40 for graphics processing with another gpu outputting the graphics.
Would have to wait until someone figured a way to backport that feature to XP. The first known case of this working was Nvidia Optimus in windows Vista.
This is just a fact of life for those using laptops with an mxm slot and wanting to upgrade when possible, ngreedia did eventually drop the lockout for some cards but the rest you have to do this. The worst of the lot to get working will be the Tesla models for both the desktop and for laptops due to all the lockouts. Kinda funny that some of the mxm cards out there started their life as car parts being used for the infotainment and self driving feature in some Tesla cars lol.
From all I've read enabling >4 GB on XP 32-bit is just not worth it on a home system. Now for more recent versions it's much more managable. I have a 6 GB 32-bit Win 7 setup, because there it's just changing 2 values with a hex editor. Microsoft decided that home consumer Windows doesn't need what Windows server gets, but it is easy to turn back on.
Hi Phil, since 2015 I work with a HP Z820 with a Nvidia Quadro K6000 (12GB) and I also had issues with 4K (4096x2160). After many trials and errors I found the strange solution: turn off ECC in the Nvidia Control Panel. From that time until now, the machine has run smoothly and still operates the big software (Adobe etc.). Don't know whether this could be the same problem, and whether the M6000 suffers the same problem, but I've never turned the ECC on again and it's still still running great. Maybe, when my machine will retire, i will make it a bad ass retro machine. Thanks for the video.
I’ve seen 24GB versions of these cards but unfortunately it was very expensive. Also such high end cards aren’t really needed for XP era games. My biggest issue with collecting older games for PC is that around 2007-08 many start needing an internet connection to be installed and use Steam or other services. For example I got a Need For Speed game on the 360 because I read that the PC version needed internet services and a physical used copy would be useless for an XP machine.
It yes you are right, it's a pain with DRM. As awesome as GOG is, they don't have many games. Racing games especially have copyright issues with their music, it's really annoying.
@@philscomputerlab Yes but most games work very will on XP in that era too. Even if you use Windows 7 you will be cut off from Steam soon. As someone who likes physical things I just think it is sad to be limited to pre 2006 games. Thanks for informative videos.
If you properly own the game, and the way you own them allows installing them on another machine (like how steam allows installation on as many PCs as you like, but you can only play on one at a time), just go around and find yourself an "offline patch" Oh, and I'm not saying that you should pirate games. Just that you could disable online DRM in games you legitimately own.
I had a lot of issues with later AMD cards that have supported for XP but the driver not installing. Gave up and run my 980ti in my XP machine, running with a x79 mobo with the fastest dual core it can take if only to keep heat down
I know exactly the issue. The workaround is to install the driver and let it fail. Then install driver through device manager and pointing it to the unpacked driver on C:/AMD.
@@philscomputerlab I swear I tried that but it still failed. Gotta give it another try if only to have a AMD setup for XP, should probably find a ATI CPU for it
I got myself an ASUS R9 270 for a Windows XP gaming rig, still average of $50USD. It is still officially supported by drivers, has DVI, HDMI, DP and it just matches the whole ASUS/AMD build I have (Crosshair IV Formula Phenom II X6 1100T). I'm definitely going to have to rebuild it and use it seeing that Creative dropped Alchemy support in Windows 11. It still got installed however with my Sound Blaster X AE-5 which is odd.
Officially the Rx 200 cards up to the R7 270X and the HD 7970/8970 are included. The chip-wise identical R9 280X and R9 370X should also be easily tricked.
I have managed to put together a Windows XP system with the following components: Motherboard: GA-X79-UP4 CPU: I7 4930k RAM: 64GB (8x8) 1600mhz HDD: WD Velociraptor 320GB PSU: Coolermaster 750W (some old model, not really relevant since it's not used a lot) GPU: GTX Titan (the first one from 2013) I actually used Win XP 32bit so not all the RAM was usable. I used the Snappy Driver Installer for the drivers, it all went smooth. There weren't any problems in the end, except one strange thing, maybe some of you know why it happens. I was monitoring the total system power draw and in idle it was at around 160W which is extremely high. When I ran Windows 10 on this system, it was pulling around 70W in idle. Is it because Windows XP does not know how to properly keep this specific CPU in idle?
Hmm in Windows XP try changing the power profile and see if it makes a difference. It could very well be that lack of drivers cause the machine to. It go into the lowest power state.
A major thing for me is that Maxwell was the last generation of Nvidia GPUs to have a DVI-I/A with a proper RAMDAC for CRT monitors. I use a 980Ti on a WinXP32 gaming machine to play games from the 1998-2006 era with modded drivers. I have a DVI-I to VGA adapter on it and the image is absolutely crisp on 2D games. Maxwell will probably go down in history to have the best analog VGA quality ever. The RAMDAC on it can drive a large CRT to really high refresh without artifacts -- an issue I experience with "period correct" hardware. On the display port, I use a 1920x1200 LCD to properly scale 4:3-only games to 1600x1200.
Excellent point and wasn't aware, thanks for pointing this out.
@@philscomputerlab I would love a video on comparing analog VGA output quality on old video cards. I remember that RAMDAC MHz was a big marketing thing back then.
Yeah, for Nvidia. XP support cuts off with dx9 though, unless dxvk, and AMD had the better native dx9 hardware. I wonder if AMD's 290/390 cards work. Anything above a 960 is pretty much overkill for XP era games anyway. Not to mention there's actually no reason to run XP or XP hardware when the games are fully compatible with modern Windows and hardware. Only 9x is really worth having a dedicated box, because of specific hardware and software locked to 9x. You can emulate 3dfx glide, not powervr, not virge, not aureal3d. Descent 3 also has specific effects locked to a pentium 3. As a final note GOG does NOT support installing on XP/9x, and if you look at their history, the installers were encrypted to block Linux for a good while. So GOG was deliberately blocking you from using their versions on retro PCs and Linux. Outside of workarounds. They're not what they pretend to be.
@@JohnDoe-ip3oq What would they have to gain from blocking linux I honestly wonder. Like it would be one thing if their games and/or the way they make them work on modern windows just happens to run into issues with linux, but intentional encryption is another issue altogether.
I agree.
Hey, Phill. Just some new information for XP users. Nvidia Drivers 344.11 (which are XP only), they support both GTX 970 and 980 by default. No need to mod them. Althou, Nvidia page doesn't show them in official list, driver files contain all information needed to instal it in legacy way :) Cheers!
Hey, I have a Quadro K620 and I can't get it to work right. I installed an older driver than this but I'm having major issues.
For example Minecraft is telling me "No OpenGL context found" and that I have bad drivers.
Do you know if this supports the k620 and if this would solve my issue?
I want to say thank for this educational content, you’ve helped more people than you could possibly know
😊
Heh, I appreciate the shout-out. Wasn't expecting that and glad to help.
I've not tried patching drivers for Windows XP yet because my WinXP retro gaming PC is running a GTX 460 and seems to work but I have a GTX 650 Ti in a different machine that could benefit from this patching technique. Thank you!
650ti runs native. You can find drivers on nvidia page. Even for 750ti, 950. All run native on WXP.
4K on XP? What madness is that? That's so anachronistic I'm in awe it can be done at all, even if with a low refresh rate.
Awesome video as always. Quadro M6000 has so much untapped potential for gaming, I'm glad this channel continues pushing its retro technology to its limits.
Phil's makin my XP rig great again!
XP was always great...
After SP2
@@JohnSmith-xq1pz but not his XP rig 😂
You are everywhere
@@RetroTinkerer lol true
The best retro channel in TH-cam
I used the exact same procedure to get my FX 5900 ZT up and running on Windows 98 with the 45.23 driver recently. That version was released a full 13 years before 368.81, so I guess Nvidia never considered it worth blocking people from doing this.
They haven't bothered to change the control panel UI in 23+ years either. Kind of sad when you consider the RTX 4090 has the same control panel interface that the Riva TNT2 did. More so because it wasn't even good back then either.
@@bdhale34 Even on a relatively modern machine (roughly the same age as the hardware used in this video) the control panel is still laggy and unresponsive at times, too. Like, are you kidding me?
Ha! I knew there was a reason for me keeping my old 980Ti.. Time for a new project! :D
Great video, looking forwards to trying this out!
Go for it!
@@philscomputerlab ciao, è possibile farlo con 1050Ti o Quado M5000? Grazie
Love all the 9x & xp content! I might have to get one if those first my High-end xp rig. It's got a i7 4790, 4gb ram, gtx 960 2gb and S/blaster xf-i SB0820
My lower end rig for older stuff is a pentium 4 650, 1gb ram, 8800gts 640mb and S/blaster SB0410
The P4 650 is a great CPU for 98/XP.
Yeah. Disable hyper-threading and turn off two of the cores, you'll get a 4.4GHz beast with the 4790K. Especially when you couple a very fast SSD with it. And later, if you can get your hands on it, compare the performance difference between the Quadro M6000 and the GTX Titan X.
Totally agree on hyperthreading, no XP game should benefit from it and some might even get slower. But I don't see why disabling cores, turning it into the equivalent of a Pentium G with more cache would be useful. I'd just keep all cores on, turning it into an i5, should give the performance and width to run basically everything.
Happy Friday Phil! Thank you sir for the coverage of the high end XP cards 👍
Same to you!
Got this exact one. Love it, I was using it 2015-2023.
Another Great Video. Thank you for this, It's given me some ideas for a future XP build. I'm currently rocking 2 x GTX 295 in my XP beast. Not that it even needs that. Honetly I mostly play games from 1997 to 2010 at the latest. Modern stuff is almosted wasted on me.
😮 Amazing setup but a bit inefficient and can easily be replaced with a single faster card. But still amazing to have quad SLI.
@PhilsComputerLab yes, it's more of a "I wish I had this in 2009" build. It's not really meant to be efficient, just fun to play with.
Wew 2x gtx 295 is quite power hungry.
When using a single gpu die on the gtx 295 a gtx 750 ti is about 45% faster it seems.
Personally I'd probably go with a gtx 950 rather then the 960 if I'm going with an overkill build.
Though my dell inspiron 6000 laptop does play the games id want too run every once in a while just fine. Pentium m @ 1.5 ghz 1.5 gb ram & ati x300 graphics, for colin mcrae 1 for example.
(900 series for a bit better display & dsr support & lower powerdraw then something like a gtx 460 or 770)
Specially for earlier era games it's basically almost all cpu anyway unless you are running nglide,dgvoodoo emulation at like 4k resolution or 1440p in some games.
they dual PCB or single PCB GTX 295's?
You can use wineD3D for windows or onecore api to make WXP run modern games provided that it uses upto vc redist 2012-2015. You could probably keep an entire pc offline with XP installed just for the sole purpose of running gog games. I got the latest build of chromium running on windows xp under onecore api which is a patch not too dissimilar to kernelEX for w95-2k.
This Quadro looks really good.
I have this WindForce GTX 960 (or very similar). I like how compact and still quiet it is. Maxwell has h.265 video decoding (only on Windows NT 6). The Quadro Titan is giant, leaving no room for HDDs and needs an 8-pin. On the 960 the VGA does have ghosting, despite it being on the main board. Modifying drivers on NT 5 is no big deal. They added the certificates later.
I remember doing something similar to this to get Quadro drivers running on Geforce cards. The Quadro cards were always so much more expensive than the equivalently Geforce card, and apparently the only difference is the drivers.
I enjoy playing the old games now more than I did when they were new.
Wish it was possible to patch SLI support for some of the later cards supported in the windows XP drivers. My 690 and 780ti's could use the love.
Don't both have the SLI connector? Should be possible to use them in SLI. Now the benefit of running dual GK110 or quad GK104 under XP is a different question.
Thank you SIr. I am running a QUADRO K2200 in Windows XP 64 bit and 32 bit. Results were very impressive.
Vanilla Windows XP (so the first release) does not support SATA if I remember correctly. You need a floppy with SATA drivers or maybe a USB stick (not sure).
Also, Ivy Bridge HEDT is also supported on Windows XP.
Yea you can do many things. Enable IDE mode in BIOS. Slipstream AHCI drivers. Load F5 Floppy drivers...
You had to slipstream ahci in Vista too.
The Nvidia Quadro m6000 is super expensive. I don’t know if the price went up after your video but they appear to be very sought after, at the same time there are lots of them available. Gtx 980 ti is also quite pricey, and the 960 is almost affordable. I found an ASUS gtx 950m for my Shuttle xpc at £21 but it needed a new fan (£8)This was a good find as they are generally quite a lot more. It’s useful for ipx cases with a low power draw and good performance. I’m glad to hear that it’s compatible with Windows xp. Thx.
You are spot on with the 4th gen Intel. After your earlier video on using this 3770 I put together a WinXP supercomputer using some leftover parts. Core i5 4690k. That is 4 cores (no hyperthread) with a mild overclock of 4.0GHz all core and DDR3 1600. Thew in a Dell OEM SB xFi titanium (SB880) and an AMD Radeon 6950 1GB card. I'm contemplating getting a 2nd matching 6950 for crossfire but I'm not sure yet if I want to deal with lag and stutter because the current setup is so silky smooth. Best part about the 6950 is that it uses has port which can output 1080p at 165Hz! (A 6950 is about the same performance as a 750ti)
Awesome 😎
Thank you for providing links, you're a real saint!! :))
nice, you gotta love those quaddros and a little file editing. my newest xp build is a q9450/780i with two gtx 960, just have to get the sli enabled. after ill try a couple 980 ti.
Never had luck getting SLI with over 4gb of vram in XP. It was always wonky. I even have a pair of Quadro FX 5800, which support XP natively.
q9450 will be bottled by 2 980tis
You're spot on about newer games, I'd say that most AAA-games since around 2016-18 are WAY over-produced? (I've played with PC's since 1980's, perspective helps sometimes;) So GOG saves a day in here too. Most games played in here are still from 1995-2015; Civ4/FalloutNV/etc and heavily modded. I'd say that sweet spot for XP-gaming GPU's is about nvidia gtx750ti/760, 770 runs too hot and gtx900-series is still often expensive for just casual retrogaming. AMD equivalent would be HD7000-series, especially 7750/7770/7850/7870-ones are quite nice.
Speaking of CPU's, I'd select unlocked Intel 3000 or 4000 K-series and disable possible hyperthreading to lower temperatures. 3570k/3770k/4570k/etc. Some XP-era games can actually utilize 4 cores, but HT is useless with XP unless you have just 2-core/4-thread CPU.
Btw, have you tested VGA-card overclocking with DOS-games like we did in 90's? If I remember correctly it helped quite a bit with Cirrus 542x/543x and S3-cards at the time.
Another tip I forgot to mention in my previous comment, I highly recommend all retro WinXP builds also have a Win7/10/11 drive or partition as well in a dual boot setup with the networking disabled in WinXP which is insecure now and shouldn't be connected to the internet. Having a modern Windows drive or partition to boot into provides some very important functions:
1) The ability to safely use the internet and download software, game installers, and other files straight into the WinXP drive or partition
2) The ability to run SSD TRIM commands on the WinXP drive or partition
3) The ability to perform any necessary maintenance tasks on the WinXP drive or partition such as drive imaging, cloning, virus scanning, etc.
It's good to find a dual purpose for the WinXP machine. With an i7, 16GB RAM, a 980 Ti, and modern Windows support, it is a waste not to do anything with it. I have my "retro" (it's actually in a modern case) build running on Win10 as a dedicated file server and HTPC as its regular job, and boot into the WinXP and Win7 drives if necessary to run old programs and games. The 980 Ti is modern enough to have fan-stop and idle downclocking so it doesn't even make noise or use any more power than a low end GPU most of the time, but I wouldn't use a much older GPU for such a purpose as they used to be loud powerhogs at idle. In fact a 980 Ti can play most older games without even turning the fans on (or barely) and barely clocking up, making it straight up objectively better than a cheaper period-correct blow dryer power sucking GPU even if you think you don't need something that powerful for old games.
Retro machines are usually offline, no Internet connection. Trim is interesting. I spoke to SSD manufacturers and they assured me the modern drives do all this on their own.
@@philscomputerlab Yes, my point is by dual booting a modern OS, you can get them online and not have to go through the hassle of ferrying over files via USB drives or whatever people are doing. SSDs do internal garbage collection, but there are still benefits from OS TRIM commands. Though since SSDs don't run full speed under XP anyway, I doubt it will every be a major issue unless the SSD is an older model. Check out the following article: Ask Ars: “My SSD does garbage collection, so I don’t need TRIM… right?”
@@firstlast55555 Good points! A simple Live Linux would do the trick also. Yea that's what team group and crucial told me, but who knows. Maybe things have progressed? I've heard if Tiny10 or a similar name, a small footprint windows 10.
stop spreading this bullshit, you don't just magically instantly gain thousands of rootkits, viruses, and malware because you connected an outdated operating system to the internet unless you make the absolutely INSANE decision to connect it DIRECTLY to the internet without any kind of firewall between it and the internet, which you shouldn't do with ANY operating system, even a modern up to date one, if you have even an older router with a firewall though (which you should, no device should ever be connected directly to the WAN like that other then the router/firewall) it's absolutely fine though, just use an adblocker and avoid sketchy websites, just like you would on a modern os
Love seeing the older tech vids. I would like to update my XP build a bit more, but I am rocking a i72600k with 4gb ddr3 1600mhz, gtx 960, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum, and a asus board forget the number off hand. Works well at 1280x1024 @ 60fps... no problems really at all, but a bit better cpu would be kinda cool!
Keep up the great work Phil!
No need to upgrade. Only improvement would be getting 500 instead of 400 FPS or something like that...
The 2600K is already close to the limit of what has drivers for XP. You could get a 2700K or 3770K, as that is already the last platform with official XP drivers. And those are maybe 3-5% faster at best.
But the oc headroom on these chips is still immense. I'm running my 3570K on 4.3 GHz and my DDR3-1600 on 2133. Seen a bunch of 2500K/2600K/2700K hit 5 GHz back then. You could easily get 20-30% more out of that i5 in those pesky low-threaded, CPU demanding games.
Thanks! I got a 1680v2, Rampage IV Extreme, 8x4gb 2000mhz ram, Creative Xfi Titanium Fatal1ty, and Titan X build I’m trying to get set up on Windows Xp as an ultimate XP/ 7 dual boot build. At some point I’m gonna get another Titan X for SLI
😮Amazing 😍
@@philscomputerlab I was on Vogons researching “the theoretical ultimate Xp build” years ago and ever since I slowly have been finding deals and putting it together. I got it all put together finally, once I get some free time I just gotta get the OS and drivers installed to finally test it out.
If I were going to attempt building an XP rig, I'd go with a Z390 Dark with an i9-9900K, 2-way Titan X (Maxwell) SLI setup, and Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD or ASUS Xonar Essence ST(X) sound card.
This is FANTASTIC, and exactly why I subbed to you ages ago. Keep up the great work, Phil! 😁👍👍
Best computer channel on youtube?
Oh geese, SSAA and the whole resolution beyond what is displayed was a whole rabbit hole for me many years ago now. Different combinations of SS and MS AA, NVidia super-resolution, just custom resolutions that the GPU scaled, and different injector ulitilies. I remember there were multiple spreadsheets and forum posts with tables that gave guidelines which combination of AA and SSAO (a shadowing thing) was best or problematic for which game. By far the best method was some injection utility that I don't remember the name of unfortunately (some kind of scaler maybe...). It could separate the UI layer from the rendering, and that way the UI could remain crisp being drawn to the native resolution without any forced AA, and the 3D rendered part could be superscaled. The drawback was, that you had to write specific configs for each game (depending on the game, this was not so difficult as you might presume), and the supported DirectX version was either capped at, or only 9.
But more relevant to you: I have been forcing SSAA on games back in the day with my Geforce 750 Ti, so it should be available with other Geforce cards too. If you don't find it in the NVidia control panel, try the nvidiaInspector utility. It is an alternative UI for driver settings with more options.
Nice video thank you Phil
Phil you are Amazing as usual!! I have some older motherboard combos that I play around with and i found that even win10 will work on many of them too. There is a certain rambus board I want to get someday but they are very scarce and downright expensive too! It would be nice to see what could run on these old boards besides win 95/98 but I never got that far because the board died on me. It was an ASUS P4T 533-R and I still have 2 sticks of Rambus 4800 32 bit which this stuff was very fast memory indeed.
I have an Intel D850GBAL socket 423 motherboard that i picked up a few years back as new old stock. I have it paired with 2GB PC800 RDRAM and a 1.9ghz P4. I used a PCI Sata card to enable use of an SSD and have tried a few different O/S. Windows 200 is my preferred and it runs flawlessly. XP is fine and runs reasonably well. Windows 7 was painful and i havent tried windows 10 yet. With windows 7 the CPU was pegged to 100% usage. I may give it another shot at some point once i finish a few other projects off (i have 3 socket 478, a 939, an AM2, 2 1366 and a 2011 all in various stages of completion).
Tweaking the drivers looks similar to when I had to modify Nvidia drivers for my Alienware M17X R3 to upgrade from a GTX 580M to a GTX 880M GPU in Windows 7. Never thought you could do it for WinXP but it makes sense.
Hard to believe the Titan XP is practically a 2080 (in rasterization performance).
True but the Titan XP is a higher performance tier card and only one generation older than the 2080 and they both do not support Windows XP. You will need a Titan X Maxwell to get the best performance in Windows XP.
But we are talking about the equivalent of a Titan X(M) here
i can confirm the modded drivers work , i tested on a b75 motherboard with a gtx 970 and xp ran fine with the card, from what i can tell with xp a rule of thumb seems to go with a gpu with half the memory of the operating system since xp can't see more than 3.5 i found 2 to be the most it ever needs
Confirms to me that keeping my GTX 660 Ti was a good choice. Not the fastest XP card, but close enough.
The peak performance for GPUs are oficially the GTX 960 and GTX 780 Ti. The 780 Ti is faster, but the 960 is more efficient and offers newer features. On the Radeon side the newest ones are Rx 200 cards, so R9 290X.
But as shown, more powerful cards of (nearly) the same architecture would also work.
R9 280/280X are the last XP supported models, R9 290/290X are not. There are some drivers floating around the net claiming XP support for R9 290/290X but that simply is not true.
There are no "AMD67B0" and "AMD67B1" entries in "Localizable Strings" section of the corresponding INF; no entries, no support.
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_67B0 = R9 290X (Hawaii XT, GCN 2.0)
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_67B1 = R9 290 (Hawaii PRO, GCN 2.0)
AMD6810 and AMD6811 entries descibed as "AMD Radeon R9 200 Series" can be found, though.
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6810 = R9 370X (Trinidad XT, GCN 1.0)
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6811 = R9 370, R9370 OEM (Trinidad PRO, GCN 1.0)
R9 370 is is about 5-10% less capable than, while R9 370X is on par with R9 270X.
Just had to say that :D
@@sirfoggy7682 oh right, the only new cards of the series aren't supported. But everything that is a HD 7000 rebrand will work.
@@HappyBeezerStudios HD 8990 is OEM rebrand of HD 7990 and neither are XP-supported.
Phil thanks for the useful information. As always very useful in practice. Maybe some day i will finally build ultimate XP/Vista DX9/DX10 PC powerful enough to run late DX9 and early DX10 titles
I miss your content on my feed
May be someone already mentioned it but yes you can enable the same AA options on any nvidia GPU with "NVIDIA Inspector" (But not the latest version, you need version which has built in profile inspector, newer version has it as a separate application, I don't remember the exact version unfortunately)
I remember enabling 32Sx (2x2SSAA + 8x MSAA) or 32x CSAA plus 8x SGSSAA, looked amazing.
I have a K4200 in my ITX XP build using a 2 slot pci-e DTX motherboard. Needed a single slot video card and the k4200 seem to be the fastest one with a VGA port.
You could probably drive 2K(but not 4K) 60Hz out in analogue using the DVI socket with a VGA adapter in Windows XP, but that would bring up the issue of where the heck you'd find a capable monitor with VGA in.
Wish you could use the Titan Xp with XP seems fitting.
As someone who is running a GTX 970 in a Windows XP/Vista/7 multiboot gaming PC, the one major issue I had with using a newer Nvidia card is that in a small handful of 3D games under XP, there are vertex explosion graphical glitches. These are the games I tested that had those issues:
Extreme Bullrider
Lego Island 2: The Brickster's Revenge
Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider
Missile Command (1999)
Roller Coaster Factory
Sega Rally Championship
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
I also had the same graphical glitches with a GTX 650 Ti in another PC, so this is very likely a driver issue.
Awesome thanks for that list gives me something to test. Yes similar to 98 often older cards and older drivers more compatible.
I have another one for your list: Battlefield 2
On any nvidia driver v334.89 and later and Radeon driver v11.4 and later you'll get black spots if you put terrain quality on anything but low.
Hi, just discovered this video. I have quite a bit of experience playing older games with modern upgrades, both on current Windows and older versions. I have an i7/980 Ti WinXP build myself with these modded drivers. About 4K60 output through DisplayPort, that is unfortunately not possible in WinXP with any Nvidia GPU even though the Maxwell hardware and Windows XP OS both support it. The reason is due to the implementation of the DisplayPort specs in the Nvidia driver. DisplayPort supports different transmission modes with different bandwidth limits. The standard HBR mode of DisplayPort 1.0 only supports 8.64 Gbps which is enough for 1080p120Hz or 1440p90Hz or 4K30Hz. The later HBR2 mode of DisplayPort 1.2 supports 17.28 Gbps which allows for 4K60Hz, however Nvidia never bothered to add support for the HBR2 transmission mode in their Windows XP drivers.
AMD did add HBR2 support for Windows XP (though this was in their days of rather bad drivers so the experience is annoying). The best AMD cards that support HBR2 and thus 4K60Hz on WinXP are the Tahiti GPUs, meaning the 7970, 7970 GHz Edition, and R9 280X (the R9 290X is NOT supported). Compared to the Maxwell line, these cards are somewhere between the 960 and 970 in performance, but at the 250W power draw of the Titan level cards, and performance varies wildly due to AMD driver performance in actual games, though they are still quite overpowered for any game old enough that you'd want to run it on XP rather than Win10/Win11 (which most late-era XP games run fine on, and most earlier games too honestly if you know how to fix them). The aforementioned annoying part of the experience is that you have to manually find and enable 4K at 60Hz in the AMD driver panel (it will probably default to something lower) with every boot because it won't remember the setting. There might be a way to fiddle around with custom resolutions or third party tools to make it stick but I'm not sure.
As for the Nvidia supersampling modes, those have always been available on Geforce cards, just hidden. You can use Nvidia Profile Inspector to access them, though once upon a time Nvidia exposed more AA options through the normal Control Panel. I've been using them for well over a decade to run older games at pristine image quality. Those modes exposed on the Quadro aren't even all of them, just the mixed SSAA/MSAA modes. Nvidia offers pure SSAA modes 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 as well. Those are ordered grid SSAA, if you really know what you are doing you can even enable an obscure sparse grid supersampling mode though I don't recommend it for most people due to its many quirks. I play all my old games at 4K120HZ with 4x4 SSAA on a 3090 Ti and they look immaculate and you'd be surprised how demanding 20 year old games can be with those settings, there are a few I need to knock down to 3x3 SSAA actually.
When forcing these high end driver AA options on Win10 or Win11, you need to make sure you go to the compatibility tab for the DX9 or older game and disable Fullscreen Optimizations. The Fullscreen Optimizations setting, which is enabled by default now and forces exclusive fullscreen games to run in a special hybrid borderless fullscreen mode, will arbitrarily lock many older games to 60Hz for no reason and block driver AA from working in some games as well (though not all). Another tip is that for some games you need to use "enhance" rather than "override" AA for it to work, override usually works but if it doesn't, always try enhance before giving up, and try different modes, sometimes SSAA works better than MSAA or vice versa.
Hope this is helpful to some people!
Fantastic comment! I've been reading up ancient forum information on that NVIDIA Inspector and how it accidentally did FSAA in the early stages. It's a real rabbit hole and takes me more time to digest it all.
GCN is the same from the HD 7970 up to the Vega 64, modify the Vega drivers is a option...
I remember doing the same thing to add support for my laptop's GeForce Go 6100 to the latest driver.
Used to do that when upgrading my beloved ASRock 4Core Dual-VSTA from my 6800 Ultra to accept a 7600GT AGP, then a 8800 PCIe under XP.
Also rolled my own 1080p EDID settings to force FullHD on a 15" 1024x768 CRT. - _Mr. Squint_
I had that board...it allowed me to upgrade to 775 and still use my x1950 GT AGP, which I loved. I used that board with many different CPU and GPU. I also ended up on an 8800GT PCIe lol
@@AaronHendu I liked it so much I recently bought one (1str one fried) and upgraded it to a Q6600, very nice in spite of the slight FSB reduction. I also have the SATA version. _Certifiably nutz._
The last few month i am playing the Gothic series on a 775 system with ddr1 and agp slot using windows xp. 1680x1050 is doable with a Radeon 2600 xt. really enjoying that.
Oh, I have a (dead) board with that port combination with some freakish SiS chipset. Would make for some interesting benchmark scaling setup, but sadly dead.
Windows XP does not get along with modern display outputs (Display port or HDMI) I've found out at high resolution video gets errors and I couldn't get any refresh rate higher than 60hz. Using a Titan X with modified drivers. Display shows up as a TV. I was able to achieve was 1080p at 60hz on my Alienware OLED 175hz monitor via DP or HDMI.
I was trying to post this comment in reply to your comment under my other post, but it keeps disappearing after I post it. Perhaps TH-cam flagged it because it's long or something. I'll try to post it separately:
Nvidia Inspector (now Nvidia Profile Inspector, previously the app did more stuff than tweak game profiles) is just a UI to expose everything that Nvidia themselves put in the driver. It goes through Nvidia's official NVAPI which Nvidia created so third party apps can access this stuff. People don't realize how much work the Nvidia driver team, for decades now, puts into compatibility options for older games that the game creators themselves long abandoned. It's why games (especially DX11 games but old stuff too) run so much better on Nvidia hardware and one of the reasons the Nvidia driver package is so huge. Nvidia has optimizations for thousands of games and you can view it all through Inspector. There are custom made 3D vision profiles (as in 3D glasses / 3DTV) for games from the 90s, with Nvidia developer notes. Through Inspector, you can mess around with everything, for example, there are numerous "compatibility bits" Nvidia has to help older games run, or fix something that was broken, and Inspector allows you to apply compatibility profiles Nvidia made for one game to another game, which can sometimes cause that second game to be fixed, or run better.
I think what you are talking about is the "discovery" of sparse grid supersampling, or SGSSAA. Back in the DX9 and earlier days, when all games were forward rendered (and thus the driver can easily force AA), Nvidia implemented a lot of AA technologies through the driver. CSAA, MFAA, QAA, ordered grid SSAA, gamma correct MSAA, etc. At some point when games started using a lot of foliage, and before FXAA and post process AA was invented, there was a period where just forcing MSAA wasn't good enough because it didn't cover transparencies like foliage and chain link fences, and SSAA was too demanding, so Nvidia came up with transparency multisampling (TrMSAA) and transparency supersampling (TrSSAA) that only applied to transparencies, which was meant to be used in conjunction with MSAA. This TrSSAA implementation used a new sparse grid technique instead of ordered grid. So with 4xMSAA plus 4x TrSSAA you could get very good anti-aliasing coverage of then-modern DX9 games on par with SSAA but at a much lower performance cost. People using Inspector discovered if you combined TrSSAA with SSAA instead of MSAA, the driver would actually apply the sparse grid supersampling technique to the entire scene including polygon edges (meaning the ordered grid SSAA was being overridden into a new "SGSSAA"). This was actually a glitch and causes some blur under certain conditions, which can be offset by changing some other game profile options through Inspector. The end result is a new SSAA option that a lot of people liked because of its quality to performance ratio (it is less intensive than traditional SSAA). When Nvidia learned that enthusiasts liked this option, they decided not to fix the glitch and SGSSAA remains a secret unofficial driver feature to this day which some people consider a sort of holy grail option, though I don't bother with it anymore as modern GPUs are now powerful enough to easily run traditional SSAA on older games without issues.
Starting with the DX11 generation and deferred rendered games, traditional AA during the internal render stage became inefficient and hard to implement, so everyone abanded traditional MSAA and SSAA research in favor of downsampling the final image from higher resolutions, outside of the "knowledge" of the game. So all of those wacky AA options are now relics accessible through Inspector. Because Nvidia is dedicated to backwards compatibility and never removes anything from its drivers, we still get to use all of it today. (though modern GPUs can no longer use the CSAA modes, but they are still there for older GPUs to use)
Very similar to my Retro XP PC. Mine is an i5-3570K, 8GB RAM DDR3 1600MHz (cause I dual boot WinXP/Win10), GTX 750 Ti, Creative X-Fi and the same Crucial SSD!
The only thing that makes that a "retro" set up is the fact that Microsoft build their modern and crappy OSes to deliberately lock out and "overbloat" set ups like that - I am using similar set ups to that, even Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad machines as perfectly good daily driver machines under Linux.
Because I gave up on AAA gaming about a decade ago when "games as a service" kicked off, I don't need newer hardware than what you have there anyway - plus this age of hardware is extremely cheap on eBay at the moment due to the "mindless muppets" upgrading their PCs ready for Windows 11.
But no complaints from me, I'll happily buy up there "hardware cast-offs".
I'm running a Core 2 as almost daily driver as well. It's my media system to have alongside the stronger gaming one. And with the hardware upgrade coming soon, the old system probably turns into pretty much the same op has there.
patch your bios for nvme boot!
On the nvidia website there is a firmware update for displayport from GTX 700 to GTX 1000 with some fixes. Maybe it can fix the low refresh rate in 4k.
Great video sir!
There is a typo in the description-- gtx 870.
My XP/Vista/7/8/8.1 box is running a 4770K that auto-overclocks to 4.7Ghz and a 770GTX 4GB on a Z series motherboard and with 32GB of 2400mhz memory because that's what I had in the machine when I changed it out for a new machine.
It runs all late XP and later titles that my main rig has issues with, extremely well.
Very nice.
i found the radeon hd 6970 is the ultimate all around windows xp card , it will play every game you can run on xp fine while supporting those old windows 98 games like incoming, colin mcrae rally , forsaken etc with no artifacts and rendering them as good as a riva tnt2 the terascale 2 cards have very good legacy support for older games on windows xp
You are right! Not many know if the Incoming glitches in cards newer then TNT2...
Agreed I have a 6950 and it works great for older stuff too!
Finally, I found one on TH-cam who is Gaming at 1440p or 4K on Windows XP and Nvidia Maxwell generation graphics card.
I am planning to build SLI setup with two GeForce GTX 980Ti graphics cards and LGA1366 system. Not sure how Windows XP would handle SLI.
XP works great with SLI, haven't tried with a GTX 900 series however.
Okay that display port issue has my attention. 4k 60hz is give or take 18gbit per second and needs all four twisted pairs to be of identical spec and quality. For lower resolutions or lower hz signals you only need to make sure the first two pair of wires are up to spec so manufactures ignore or cheap out on the 3rd and 4th pair, it can be really frustrating because these junk cables make it into 4k monitor boxes all the time. I'd live boot Linux to confirm if its a driver issue or something else.
I should add, I have a Fujitsu R9 255 2GB OEM running in XP pretending to be an AMD Radeon HD 8760 OEM in my XP machine. Similar process but you need the PCI device ID and just duplicate a few lines in the inf file. The software doesn't install but the 2d and 3d drivers work without a problem. You can do the same with up to a 280X and convince XP its a 7970 which is quite a bit faster than a 960.
I am still waiting to find out about modifying AMD drivers for GCN cards on XP such as the Radeon Pro WX2100/3100/4100 ect.
The last nvidia card that I was able to test in WIndows XP with a mod driver was up to the GTX970... I think that from the 1000 series onwards it is no longer possible due to a hardware issue, saludos!
Little nitpick but in the description, you accidently called the 970, the 870. Good video regardless.
Hmmm I wonder if I could get one in my pentium 4 Sony Vaio...
Nice tip about getting more antialiasing options with quadro cards, compared to geforce. What i don't like is widespread trend of reflashing bioses of quadro cards to make them basicaly geforce with different outputs. Have no idea what is benefit of that as drivers are almost same, but quadro's have more optimisations of Opengl enabled and looks like also more driver options.
Still need to see video of what are benefits of flashing quadros....to me its plain stupid.
Sadly modern nvidia cards don't support CSAA anymore. In games where it worked, it was amazing, and in those games where it didn't work, it was as good as the MSAA level it's based on.
Alien vs Predator 1 doesnt seem to work with newer GPUs though technically its a Win98 game (released 1999). I found also that Max Payne 1 (2001) seems a bit picky also. Honestly anything over 144hz for XP gaming seems kind pointless to me. GTX 750 Ti is a nice quiet, low power consumption card that is still overkill.
Both AvsP and Max Payne runs great on modern hardware through Proton on Linux.
(Max has one AMD bug with newer cpu but it is fixable and not related to OS)
And yes, I like supporting old hardware and software.
750 is a great card agreed!
@@philscomputerlab do you know if modded drivers will work with the GT 1030 ? it performs equally well as the GTX 750
@@Zikatus No they won't, it is simply not compatible with XP.
@@philscomputerlab is this fake ? how can a GTX 1060 be displayed on device manager
1.bp.blogspot.com/-B9OWVlLdZ6k/XbVDYg_CShI/AAAAAAAACKg/tR58uXkqzUoCp68BgjDSCMpLlCNTvPYTACNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/J01zTS5.png
Interesting, like!
I have a 970 laying around ive always wanted to build a windows XP machine for retro gaming.
Welp, time for a Haswell i7 Titan X build with only 4GB RAM
x79 asus rampage iv extreme black edition with i7-4960k/ Xeon E5-1680 v2, titan x/Quadro M6000 is the fastest you can get for xp as far as i no.
Excellent. Keep upgrading my xp retro pc as i get new parts. I currently have an Intel Pentium G3260 with 4gb of ram, ssd, and a GTX 550 TI. I have a GTX 970 but I don't want to waste it for XP since I use it on a W10 HTPC that I use as an xbox to play an xbox 360 controller from the comfort of my couch. I also have an i5 4400 cpu and an i7 4790 which I think are too much for xp. It never worked for me to have more than 2 cores in XP, I had to disable several from the affinity options or from the bios. I think it's a waste. On the other hand, I don't know if it's worth building a Windows 7 retro PC just yet. I think most of the games work on Windows 10 which is what I have on my main gaming pc. Maybe the day I upgrade my current rig, I'll dedicate the GTX 970 to XP. If I could use the GTX 550 ti on Windows 98 that would be great.
I'm running my X5460 quad core just fine under XP. The OS itself has no problem there and (in theory) supports up to 32 CPUs.
@@HappyBeezerStudios I wanted to say that only in some games I had to lower the amount of cores from affinity since I had problems.
Hmmm .. I wonder if there's a way to get nVidia optimus working under XP.
My notebook has HD3000 and a nVidia GT540m. But I'm unable to install the nVidia card.
After some research I found out that the root cause of this
is the lack of nVidia Optimus support under Windows XP.
The official support begins with Windows 7, says google.
But it has been wrong many times before.
Given the fact that it's a software limitation I think its still possible to enable
the deticated GPU somehow. Just need some sort of unoficcial "bridge" drivers
to support optimus switchable graphics...
Your so cool for making this❤
i had an issue similar to this with 4K only supporting 30HTz. Turns out it was our cables that were stopping it. We ended up using a default cable that came with the display (all of the other cables we had all stated were "4K Ready!" etc) and it allowed 60HTz on the first try. We had this with both HDMI and DisplayPort cables. Don't trust amazon when they say it's 4K!
Hmm it's the DP cable that came with the monitor and works with other devices.
@@philscomputerlab i'd still definitely look into another one as the cable may be of another standard or of a type unsupported by the card (if active or passive) then the card can handle. IIRC the quadro M6000 is DP 1.2 with no requirements as to the type of cable but as i said we had this exact issue in the past with our 2080 Super GPU in the Wife's PC. Refused to output 4K60 till we swapped to a "dumb" cable.
It would be a good use for my PCI heavy Z87 board, i5 4400 and GTX 650ti and another SoundBlaster Live!. I'd only need to buy a case and PSU to assemble the PC.
I'm thinking the displayport version on the card don't support 4k 60hz
It is DP 1.2 and the card supports 4k60 on all 4 DP simultaneously. So I think it has something to do with the driver modding
Imagine if someone was flexing their RTX 3080 FTW3 and you tell them that you have more vram in your Windows XP build
Thanks for such informative video, would be great to see video with comparison of the AA technologies 😊
Noted!
The enemy AI in F.E.A.R is among the best I have ever seen in a game, it puts some modern games to shame.
The AI itself isn't super impressive, but the way it's implemented in the game is just marvelous. It's not simply "throw enemy AI package number 5 in there", but everything is crafted to work together.
Interesting Video!
With that generation of motherboards, you can usually patch the BIOS to run NVMe drives. I had NVMe 3 Gen SSD running on my P68 V Pro Gen3 motherboard, running my old 2600K CPU. I wasn't running XP on it thou, I had it as my 2nd machine in the bedroom running Win10, and then Win 11, again a bit of work is needed to get Win 11 running on that period of hardware.
I did a patch to use NVMe SSD on LGA 775 as a boot device, what a difference 😮
@@BaguetesGarage I know, I have a few different machines that boot from NVMe and my 2600k machine is by far the fastest. Not too sure if it's because the SSD is connected strait in to the PCIe slot, or if the BIOS is smaller on older machines, but it will boot to the login prompt in about 12 seconds.
@@yakacm older BIOS boot quickly and the boot drive will start faster than newer systems, my Ryzen 7 3700X takes around 30sec doing nothing when I press the power button, then it starts loading Windows.
Did you guys use a PCIe card or some sort of SATA-NVMe adapter to make that work?
@@HappyBeezerStudios PCI E to nvme 5$ cost but it's limited to pice bandwidth and the biosmod (boots directly from nvme)
Hear me out,
I'm trying to get a GT 710 to work with my RTX 3080 and *avoid* using the old 400 series nvidia driver, but rather bring the GT 710 somehow in the Latest 3080 Driver.
It's been hours, I'm still trying.. Is this possible ?
Is that performance necessary? No
Is That Performance too much? There's no such thing as too much performance on your side.
BTW, Sandy/Ivy Bridge (1155 Non-E) works perfectly on Xp.
The Quadro M6000 is pretty expensive on ebay while the Tesla M40 is pretty cheap. I wonder if there's a way to use the M40 for graphics processing with another gpu outputting the graphics.
Would have to wait until someone figured a way to backport that feature to XP. The first known case of this working was Nvidia Optimus in windows Vista.
This is just a fact of life for those using laptops with an mxm slot and wanting to upgrade when possible, ngreedia did eventually drop the lockout for some cards but the rest you have to do this. The worst of the lot to get working will be the Tesla models for both the desktop and for laptops due to all the lockouts. Kinda funny that some of the mxm cards out there started their life as car parts being used for the infotainment and self driving feature in some Tesla cars lol.
The same moment when your VCard have more RAM than system RAM .)
Same VRAM than RTX 4070 😂😂😂😂
@@philscomputerlab , Please do not offend silicon rejects)🤣
I don't know if you've already done this but can you make a video about Windows XP with PAE so that you can use more than 4GB of system RAM?
From all I've read enabling >4 GB on XP 32-bit is just not worth it on a home system. Now for more recent versions it's much more managable. I have a 6 GB 32-bit Win 7 setup, because there it's just changing 2 values with a hex editor. Microsoft decided that home consumer Windows doesn't need what Windows server gets, but it is easy to turn back on.
Hi Phil, since 2015 I work with a HP Z820 with a Nvidia Quadro K6000 (12GB) and I also had issues with 4K (4096x2160). After many trials and errors I found the strange solution: turn off ECC in the Nvidia Control Panel. From that time until now, the machine has run smoothly and still operates the big software (Adobe etc.). Don't know whether this could be the same problem, and whether the M6000 suffers the same problem, but I've never turned the ECC on again and it's still still running great. Maybe, when my machine will retire, i will make it a bad ass retro machine. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for the tip!
I’ve seen 24GB versions of these cards but unfortunately it was very expensive. Also such high end cards aren’t really needed for XP era games. My biggest issue with collecting older games for PC is that around 2007-08 many start needing an internet connection to be installed and use Steam or other services. For example I got a Need For Speed game on the 360 because I read that the PC version needed internet services and a physical used copy would be useless for an XP machine.
From what I've researched, 2007 era games fall into that DX9/DX10 Vista transition period with many games having received DX10 patches.
It yes you are right, it's a pain with DRM. As awesome as GOG is, they don't have many games. Racing games especially have copyright issues with their music, it's really annoying.
@@philscomputerlab Yes but most games work very will on XP in that era too. Even if you use Windows 7 you will be cut off from Steam soon. As someone who likes physical things I just think it is sad to be limited to pre 2006 games. Thanks for informative videos.
If you properly own the game, and the way you own them allows installing them on another machine (like how steam allows installation on as many PCs as you like, but you can only play on one at a time), just go around and find yourself an "offline patch"
Oh, and I'm not saying that you should pirate games. Just that you could disable online DRM in games you legitimately own.
I had a lot of issues with later AMD cards that have supported for XP but the driver not installing. Gave up and run my 980ti in my XP machine, running with a x79 mobo with the fastest dual core it can take if only to keep heat down
I know exactly the issue. The workaround is to install the driver and let it fail. Then install driver through device manager and pointing it to the unpacked driver on C:/AMD.
@@philscomputerlab I swear I tried that but it still failed. Gotta give it another try if only to have a AMD setup for XP, should probably find a ATI CPU for it
@@Fahrenheit38For the late XP compatible cards AMD had 3 driver packs. It really is confusing. I've uploaded all 3 packs of the 14.4 on my website...
I got myself an ASUS R9 270 for a Windows XP gaming rig, still average of $50USD. It is still officially supported by drivers, has DVI, HDMI, DP and it just matches the whole ASUS/AMD build I have (Crosshair IV Formula Phenom II X6 1100T). I'm definitely going to have to rebuild it and use it seeing that Creative dropped Alchemy support in Windows 11. It still got installed however with my Sound Blaster X AE-5 which is odd.
I still have my old GTX 660 Ti and a R7 250X, both in finely working conditions and just right for late XP gaming.
Nice, i wonder how team red fairs with the most recent graphics card supported?
Officially the Rx 200 cards up to the R7 270X and the HD 7970/8970 are included. The chip-wise identical R9 280X and R9 370X should also be easily tricked.
I have managed to put together a Windows XP system with the following components:
Motherboard: GA-X79-UP4
CPU: I7 4930k
RAM: 64GB (8x8) 1600mhz
HDD: WD Velociraptor 320GB
PSU: Coolermaster 750W (some old model, not really relevant since it's not used a lot)
GPU: GTX Titan (the first one from 2013)
I actually used Win XP 32bit so not all the RAM was usable.
I used the Snappy Driver Installer for the drivers, it all went smooth.
There weren't any problems in the end, except one strange thing, maybe some of you know why it happens. I was monitoring the total system power draw and in idle it was at around 160W which is extremely high. When I ran Windows 10 on this system, it was pulling around 70W in idle. Is it because Windows XP does not know how to properly keep this specific CPU in idle?
Hmm in Windows XP try changing the power profile and see if it makes a difference. It could very well be that lack of drivers cause the machine to. It go into the lowest power state.
Great video
i wish to run Windows 2000 on first gen i5 platform laptop
and the graphics card is Radeon HD 4570/5145
wow this working for widnows xp nice 🙂
Thanks a lot!
Got a challenge for you get a GT 610 PCI working on Win 98