I love how almost all your enemies you're fighting in this vid and going crazy with their cameras. While you are just holding it easy and still killing them lol.
I played only with Dodge-builds since i was at 20 lvl, now im at 197 lvl earned 100% on Duel Servers or Ranked Duels (one single time i played 10 minutes of Frontline, even do not finish the match) so i have a huge exp in Dodge-using. What can i say after all? 1)Dodge maked my non-perk footwork-dodging much worse. Big amount of high lvl duelists can do Dodge-alike stuff without Dodge-perk only with stamina-free camera\movement manipulations. I can do similar non-Dodge footwork but it really hard for me, and i make much more mistakes with it than a regular high-lvls do in such things. But if i will pay more attention to non-Dodge footwork - i will definately improve it. At the end it may be only my own personal issue. 2)improve in Dodge-perk-abuse is waaaaaay much easier then improve in regular footwork non-perk dodging. That helps a lot to newcomers, but do bad shit to your common footwork in perspective imho. Also Dodge is not preventing you to 100% control what enemy doing right now, when regular non-perk camera\foot dodging in most cases forces you to turn around and lose sight-control of enemy actions for a moment. I often use this to force non-perk dodgers to panic block by morphing of feinting after they turn around and lose vision of me 3)Dodge is expensive. It means that if u as me do not like to play builds that have no exuses to mistakes (light oneshot builds) your weapon-pool will be very short: only 4pts or 5pts weapons (old pts system): falcion(even 3 pts but it is very good), bastard, longsword, billhook, messer. In case of 6pts weapons it is a pretty risky gameplay already cuz it forces u to have 2-3-2 or 3-3-1 armor-build. In case of 2-3-2 your earn a 2-shot "potential" with almost any weapon in game in case of headshot and one-shot "potential" with Polehammer. In case of 3-3-1 damage dealed to legs is ridiculous even with weak weapons so very widespreaded foot-drags become your nightmare if u a not a God of Jump-Dodging of that leg-drags. Any builds with tier-2 chest have a "nice bonus": 2-shot with big amount of popular weapons, so i do not even try it. So builds i personnaly using: 3-3-3+bastard+dodge (my main build), 2-3-3+billhook+short sword+dodge (not 3-3-2 cuz billhook needs T3 legs to do that special billhook's combo stuff with kicks), 3-3-2+longsword+short sword+dodge 4)Dodge is a complete counterpick against maul with only exception: fully or almost fully naked guy with jammed W-button. 5)Dodge is an actual feint-counter instrument. If you miss blocked to a feint and there is not a face-hugging distance between you - simply dodge back to be saved from missblock punishment. 6)Dodge-spamming is bad. Dodge must be used only in a right way, at a right place and and at right time or u will lose your stamina or "teach" your opponent how to counter it straight during single fight. 7)Dodge is a viable instrument in case of disarm. Dodging back fast to force opponent to miss in combo after disarm will grant your a moment to take your second weapon or to start a fist attack (feint it and do a damage or even kill depends of opponent's HP). But my favorite trick is to dodge and run to my weapon like a madman. My opponents think that im a complete idiot and simply starts their attack to hit my back, but suddenly i turn back and do a kick right to opponents windup :D almost nobody reacts to this :D actions after a kick depends of HP of enemy: i make a fist attack with feint if HP is low to finish him, or simply grab my dropped weapon without any problems while my enemy is under recovery after a kick. 8)Dodging an opponent combo attack after miss - super strong trick in stamina-war, aspecially against guys with heavy weapons like Evening star with huge stamina loses in miss. 9)Side-Dodge good against comitted straight overheads (as it said on video by author), and an awesome stuff if u have a fast\medium-speed weapon and able to mind-read a horizontal drag from opponent at close or medium distance: start attack and do a side-Dodge away from opponets weapon. It is a free hit for u cuz he will miss and will not be able to do a FtP cuz you will hit him while his weapon still in the end of release phase when doing a FtP is impossible. Doing this trick boosting your morale and lowering opponents morale cuz he think "omg he reads me like an open book and do whatever he wants" :D but this is hard to execute trick, definately not for beginers. This trick also can be executed without Dodge. Simply chamber with a side-step away of weapon, but in this case it costs 15 stamina (Dodge costs 10) and after a chamber your opponent CAN BLOCK or CHAMBER so it is not a free hit cuz u not forcing him to miss. 10)One of the most simple and scary trick with this perk: dodge enemys swing simultaniously with starting windup of your gamble attack, then just close the distance right after dodge, (timing - end of your windup window) forcing enemy to be scared of your windup forcing him to make a combo-FtP, but you do not execute your windupped attack, you do a morph or feint attack. Even very good players in this situation do a panic-block with FtP and catch a hit with morph or feint-attack. Very rarely you can meet a player who can execute proper 2-button combo FtP, but even sucha players can be tricked if i do a godly late morph right in last milisecond of windup. 11)spamming back-dodge is a viable tactic when u do 100 damage to a guy with Flesh Wound and do not want to give him any chance to hit u (when u at low HP, potential oneshot) cuz turning back and trying to run away will activate Chase-mechanic to your enemy, so he can easily reach you and finish off before time on Flesh Wound is over. 12)i have huge amount of duels with Dodge uses count = 0. Yeap, often you simply dont need it or there are no any proper right positions to worth use of it. So... definately not an imba, definately can be replaced in 70% of cases with regular non-perk footwork\camera dodge, but still is viable in many cases and needed to be trained A LOT with to be worth, and have a huge surprise potential even at high lvl duels if trained well. It definately needs to be cheaper to come in meta. ps sorry for my English, its not my native UPD 03.05.2022 after patch (slowing miss-combo's speed, losing initiative after miss to allow to punish for missing) dodge can be utilized in one more way: often when u try to punish your opponent for missing u cant do it cuz your weapon eaction is slow and opponent do a proper combo accel after miss and so still cant be punished. If that accel is a horizontal swing - u can use a side-step dodge(away from enemy's blade of course) to win some time for your punishment to hit an enemy. This stuff helps me in a shitton of times is sucha cases when my opponent try to gamble with accel after miss in combo
@@ravenousq GTFO he covered literally EVERYTHING there is to know about dodge, all of it, ups and downs, ALL. When was the last time u delivered something of that completeness to humanity?
It's an A++ essay! Really well presented and interesting info. I feel like this should be in a wiki or something 😄 (Altho it works well in these comments because it complements the video very well.)
For some reason nobody talks about the fact that you can use dodge to SHORTEN distance. When Im using dodge, its not good as retreat-counter, only to retreat when you messed up. However, side dodges are really cool as surprise attack, since you can decrease distance very quick to land a hit. It also can be used to change where hit will land. Say you're standing close, hit is landing on chest, but while doing so you side dodge around your opponent to land hit on back or back of the head. It doesn't work often, but that's where I find dodge very useful
I want to correct with the punishing part: Simply dodging a attack is already a punish for your enemy. The miss stamina drain is usually more than 10, so you go out at a plus. I like to use dodge against mauls, ES or in general blunt weapons that dont have a big range (like polehammer). You are better off playing (nearly) naked against those anyway and if they dont miss then they will often outstam you, so using dodge is a good way to win the stam battle (In case no one gets a hit, or a kick or such). I use it with zwei.
@V Using dodge instead of running away is safer and less of a gamble, since you can still see your enemy and you can start an counterattack, which is harder to do when running away (The other person can just run away as welll) I just use zwei because I am a zwei main and really like it. Bardiche is a better option as you said
Dodge is quite strong against things like the mace too which can be a punishing weapon otherwise. Maybe they should make it cost 12 stam to dodge, or maybe the short dodge range is enough, but it feels hard to counter without just switching weapons at times when it's a competent dodge player that doesn't just spam the dodge.
@@unapolla4543 Im low diamond, but dont play tooo often (because of the long ass queues). Ive never seens someone use dodge in ranked (But I am also maining zwei, dodge is pretty bad against zwei) and neither have I seen dodge too much in duel servers. Idk what weapon you use, but dodge is only smart to use in only very vew expectations. Its OP vs mauls tho
As a n00b, I used a little, but for one good reason: dodging cavalry! That's IMHO the best use of it, but it's too expensive for such niche applications.
I mostly play normal with the dodge perk equipped and when I am about to get hit I use it as an extra chance to avoid an attack. Pretty useful sometimes.
I only use the dodge perk with light armor builds. It's helped me get out of sticky situations. Like when a group of 2-5 are quickly trying to surround me, I keep dodging back, and parrying until my teammates arrive. I don't think it's good for dueling tho. I usually run out of stamina that way.
4:24 (to 4:57) Very good advice. Originally (long time ago) coming from a Chivalry background (first one), I used to love Man at Arms but got frustrated with the limited weapons - eg short range weapons play style is all about hugging your opponent and getting in their face, so that's not suited for a weaker class/build that's entire purpose is being fast enough to get out of range. So when Mordhau opened it up and said here you go you can have a Man at Arms (not literally, but fast, lightly/no armoured, dodge) with a Zweihander, Halberd, etc I thought wow this will be great! I knew from the beginning it wasn't necessarily the most competitive, but I love the idea of it (in battles, not duals) because it's so fun nimbly darting around the battlefield and popping in and out of the chaos. But it is more ineffective than I first imagined, and most pertinently I feel like it set me back months of learning / skill building, because you really do develop very bad habits. Even though you try to only use dodge rarely, when you know it's there it's difficult to fight that instinct, even if unintentionally you find your whole play style starts to revolve around it and you never learn how to fight properly. My advice is if you're interested in Dodge, become a veteran at the game normally first (heavy armour, no dodge), and if you still fancy it then then reconsider again after.
A big mistake I see a lot of dodge people make (and even me too sometimes) is dodging too many times in a fight. Players can be eager to use it so they try to dodge every swing and drain their stamina. Just let them, then get in really close so their dodges are worthless and you'll out stamina them pretty easy.
I think it’s useful in blob fights, if you’re opened up because of a missed swing or missed block, you can just dodge back and disappear quickly instead of getting massacred.
as someone who came from fighting games, I almost always use dodge and 2/2/1 because an extra movement option/mixup is far more integral and effective to my playstyle than being able to tank an extra hit with armor. using good footwork, and only dodging as a mixup or emergency option has led me to winning many high rank duels. in addition, an advanced movement option you can use is to quickly close the space with dodge and use it to aid an accel. here's how I do it- 1. look to the side and let go of W 2. press A or D (depending on which way you looked/where your enemy now is) 3. start an attack, which will look like a drag since you're facing away from them, and they'll prepare for this. 4. press space and dodge into them, causing your attack to land much earlier than anticipated since you are now far closer suddenly. you can also do a less extreme version of this by using left and right dodges to suddenly turn an accel into a drag without moving your mouse and vice versa. I recommend using acrobat with this, as of any of these mix-ups happen to miss, it'll be a lot of stamina. however, against most players lower than diamond 3, it's had about a 90% success rate when I don't whiff entirely lol (I'm not that good and this movement is pretty precise). I also recommend learning good footwork first, as although dodge can be an excellent tool in the hands of a player that knows these things, it can also become a crutch that will hinder your progress and enforce bad habits.
I think having dodge in your loadout change the way you play completely. It's like playing a different game. Once I used dodge with bllhook in a duel server and absolutely destroyed everyone. But in the next round, when people expect that i have dodge, it became mediocre. Also after that, i could not play anything else without dodge. I had that muscle memory to dodge and on most loadout, i would just jump to waste stam and took the hit anyway. Took me a week or so to lose that muscle memory. Dodge is frowned upon because like the old shield (you can just hold parry), it change the game completely and newbies will not learn the core mechanics of the game. I'd say if you wanna use dodge, go for it, it's a really good perk, easy to learn, easy to use. I find that you can accomplish the same distance management with just normal footwork by turning around and run. But that requires a lot of practice and training, and not everyone is sweaty
When I was beginning to play the game I would use light armor, dodge and an arming sword. It made people salty and it's no surprise, that was a build that was TOO easy to use. Basically at level 20 I still couldn't fight with double handed weapons and I was really bad at fights where I had heavy armor (so slow movement), no dodge perk or a slow weapon. Only at level ~40 was I able to fight and I still had a habit of doing only accels - since I was only using short, fast weapons up until that point. DO NOT USE IT AS A BEGINNER
I know this is an old video but if you wanna get really cheeky, you can throw your weapons. Targe and 2 axes + dodge and as much armor as you can take is my go to in duels. I rarely try to use dodge to get in extra hits, and instead either just try to occasionally burn through an opponents stamina or land a throwing attack with one of my three weapons. I've been in diamond before and it was pretty common for me to get 1 or 2 kills in a ranked match with a thrown axe or shield. Plus when you're switching your weapons, dodge can give you extra time to get out the second axe. Really fun play style (for me not for them) and I can't tell you how much salt I've gotten from thrusting an axe into a guys head 6-7 times only to dodge away at the last second and turn him into a unicorn. You should do a video about throwing your weapons in ranked, I'd watch it.
Dodge is extremely fun with buckler + bastard/arming sword especially if you know how to spin between attacks and blocks. it makes you look super agile and stylish
Thank you KingLouie111. Is there any chance you might visit perk-less dodging in the new tank/dwarf meta? As a dwarf and as a tank I noticed crouching doesn't help much on its own anymore. The best I've come up with is literally just shrugging at attacks.
I use 2-3-1 plus dodge, friendly, tenacious and Longsword. Great class. Bastard sword is decent as well. But definitely best used as a secret maneuver unless you learn to use it consistently and not overly.
Great guide, but why do you suggest those armor combinations instead of a 2/3/1? I think 2/3/1 is more viable because prevents oneshot from everything except maul. Pls explain I am very interested
you missed the point that you can combo dodge and the stamina reduced for jump perk to benefit a shorter range builds and with proper footwork you can double dodge out of the enemies attack and side dodge back in for your own drag while only spending a fraction of the stamina
I found a way to attack using dodge. You can reposte and dodge sideways into your opponent at the same time for a extra beefy accel. It catches many people off guard
It looks like your attacks aren't decided by the mouse direction (unless I'm just not seeing it). Do you use a mouse and keyboard or a controller? Cause I find certain attack patterns hard using a mouse due to looking around and my habits, I also don't see how to bind enough buttons for all attack options on a controller. Do you use a mouse with lots of mouse buttons? Or what is your control scheme?
Yeah, I have a Logitech g502 and play with full binds. My most recent video is about playing with a controller. You might wanna check that out if you are looking for a controller control scheme.
Him a Diamond 3 player in duel and I only play with full light armor and dodge. I have to say that dodge is a completely different play style and you have to be really good mechanically or your just gonna get one shot but it’s still my favorite perk so to all noob out there I’m sorry and good luck
It's a good perk to compliment a playstyle that's already there. If you get in a situation where dodge becomes useful, then I find it can win the fight almost right there, but it's almost never worth building around.
Is fighting in this game even worth it anymore?? I haven’t played the game and I was very excited watching a lot of old videos, but now it looks so bad for some reason. Not only people don’t take the game seriously anymore, but the graphics and physics look far worse and lifeless. What happened to this game?? I was so excited to play it
Made it to Gold 5 and suddenly encountered many dodge builds, I think everyone at end of gold are just bad enough that we don't know how to deal with it, allowing some players to find a niche of success.
"The main theory is to dodge the enemy swing." ... Kind of. Instead of actually trying to dodge attack, instead dodge immediately after a hit lands or after they block. Often that'll bait out a huge miss - if the enemy wants to avoid that they need to hold W. Once they start constantly holding W, they lose all sense of footwork. Then you counter with your own footwork, feints, R, accels/drags etc. In other words you give them a playstyle they expect then switch and everyone but the highest level can't keep up with that - it's all about making moves for your opponent to react to rather as opposed to what many dodgers do, which is wait for an enemy attack - always a bad plan. Also for opponents that face hug and accel throw an attack combined with a side dodge and half the time their huge accel will miss and they'll completely lose you, exposing their backs. You can literally run circles around some players like this and gain a physical advantage - ie "Does this guy have enough mouse pad to track me?"
To be clear dodge IS high stamina. It 100% means you'll have to be careful managing Stam, you may not be able to throw out as many feints or you may just you know, not be able to miss. Absolutely high risk but I just find the playstyle to be more fun.
I think Dodge is fine. It’s only effective when enemy weapons are short. It’s not as viable in duels though as it is on the battlefield. It really shines on the field because you have so much to distract your opponents, opportunities to get in sneaky hits, and Dodge to pull you out when you’ve been too brave and gone too deep. A tiny distance can (read: might) make the difference.
My take on the dodge perk is that you can accomplish the same thing by turning around, looking down, and sprinting away with no stamina cost and that it's a poor substitute for learning footwork.
Youre forgetting something important about the dodge perk, its much more stamina efficient vs the opponent, a missed attack with most weapons will cost your opponent more stamina than it costs you to dodge. Sideways dodge is also more viable if your familiar with the turn caps. If you're good with dodge you will still be footworking allot as you will most likely be in light armour. Its also a cheap way to keep the initiative too, though I only recommend using the dodge when you know it will give you an advantage or if an opponent successfully feints u
Pretty much the only time dodge is viable is when you have a freakishly long weapon like a spear or halberd or bardiche; or a niche as an archer. anything else and you can't punish well enough for it to be useful, and you can't keep distance from enemies.
Bit late to the party, but if you want to deal with horizontal slashes, I suggest learning to duck. Your enemy will lose a lot of stamina, and generally, the will to fight at all. :D
It's definitely not overpowered, there's a simple counter, press sprint forward! It really is that easy. Sprinting forward is just as fast as dodging backwards (or fast enough that it doesn't make any difference), so as a dodger you're entirely reliant on your opponent trying to keep their distance. You might be able to catch them off guard once because of that (which as you pointed out isn't that easy to punish anyway), but soon as they realise you're a dodger, they're not going to play for space or allow you that space either. Considering the high points cost, it means dropping some significant armour which often makes you a 2 hit kill not a 3 hit kill. And it isn't worth that sacrifice. (Or going for a short weapon but like you say that doesn't work well.) I guess if people think it's a problem, the devs could consider increasing the points cost to make you have to sacrifice more armour (and/or weapon points), but I'm not sure it needs it.
Not a fan of it. Overall it's basically free wins if your opponent doesn't know how to counter aggressive play but it devolves fights into stam games and it's annoying if your opponent has it and you don't know because it's basically a free dodge because you generally don't fight vs. dodge as you would a normal, dodgeless player
One of my main styles is light/no armor with dodge and a longsword. I also like scimitar if i want a faster blade. Why take hits when you can just not be hit at all?
For me it really ruins the pacing of the game and forces me to slow down. i find it difficult to manage a really defensive dodge user in 3s especially. in larger team fights it doesnt seem to matter all that much. I really wish they'd remove it from the game. unpopular opinion, i know. It just feels like either everyone should have some form of this perk by default or no one should.
I think the issue is that it's more or less ripped from Chivalry's Man-At-Arms class and that causes balance issues for Mordhau. In that game it's locked to a specific class and as such is fine-tuned and integral for that playstyle. In Mordhau there aren't classes so everything need to be balanced in the context of it being paired with way more possibilities. In Chiv the MAA has only a handful of weapon options, but in Mordhau, the number of builds that can use the Dodge perk is way higher. I think that it being hard to manage a defensive dodge player is exactly the point and makes you adjust your tactics, just like how you'd treat someone with light armour and a spear differently from someone with a maul and heavy armour.
I suppose it depends on how you use it. From my experience its mostly useless, simply because people can close the distance or that their weapons outreach you via lunge or wide sweeps.
I have never been killed by the dodge perk ever in 1200H of playing this game since release. Dodge perk is only good in frontline for archer that want the world to hate them.
Mordhau has some pretty good optimization capabilities, allowing players to either play with low or high graphics settings. He is just playing with lower settings.
@@Rexxy06 Ooohh ok I thought they downgraded it or something lol. I forgot for a second it was a pc game cause I’m used to console :P. Thanks for the reply
I love how almost all your enemies you're fighting in this vid and going crazy with their cameras. While you are just holding it easy and still killing them lol.
I played only with Dodge-builds since i was at 20 lvl, now im at 197 lvl earned 100% on Duel Servers or Ranked Duels (one single time i played 10 minutes of Frontline, even do not finish the match) so i have a huge exp in Dodge-using.
What can i say after all?
1)Dodge maked my non-perk footwork-dodging much worse. Big amount of high lvl duelists can do Dodge-alike stuff without Dodge-perk only with stamina-free camera\movement manipulations. I can do similar non-Dodge footwork but it really hard for me, and i make much more mistakes with it than a regular high-lvls do in such things. But if i will pay more attention to non-Dodge footwork - i will definately improve it. At the end it may be only my own personal issue.
2)improve in Dodge-perk-abuse is waaaaaay much easier then improve in regular footwork non-perk dodging. That helps a lot to newcomers, but do bad shit to your common footwork in perspective imho. Also Dodge is not preventing you to 100% control what enemy doing right now, when regular non-perk camera\foot dodging in most cases forces you to turn around and lose sight-control of enemy actions for a moment. I often use this to force non-perk dodgers to panic block by morphing of feinting after they turn around and lose vision of me
3)Dodge is expensive. It means that if u as me do not like to play builds that have no exuses to mistakes (light oneshot builds) your weapon-pool will be very short: only 4pts or 5pts weapons (old pts system): falcion(even 3 pts but it is very good), bastard, longsword, billhook, messer. In case of 6pts weapons it is a pretty risky gameplay already cuz it forces u to have 2-3-2 or 3-3-1 armor-build. In case of 2-3-2 your earn a 2-shot "potential" with almost any weapon in game in case of headshot and one-shot "potential" with Polehammer. In case of 3-3-1 damage dealed to legs is ridiculous even with weak weapons so very widespreaded foot-drags become your nightmare if u a not a God of Jump-Dodging of that leg-drags. Any builds with tier-2 chest have a "nice bonus": 2-shot with big amount of popular weapons, so i do not even try it.
So builds i personnaly using: 3-3-3+bastard+dodge (my main build), 2-3-3+billhook+short sword+dodge (not 3-3-2 cuz billhook needs T3 legs to do that special billhook's combo stuff with kicks), 3-3-2+longsword+short sword+dodge
4)Dodge is a complete counterpick against maul with only exception: fully or almost fully naked guy with jammed W-button.
5)Dodge is an actual feint-counter instrument. If you miss blocked to a feint and there is not a face-hugging distance between you - simply dodge back to be saved from missblock punishment.
6)Dodge-spamming is bad. Dodge must be used only in a right way, at a right place and and at right time or u will lose your stamina or "teach" your opponent how to counter it straight during single fight.
7)Dodge is a viable instrument in case of disarm. Dodging back fast to force opponent to miss in combo after disarm will grant your a moment to take your second weapon or to start a fist attack (feint it and do a damage or even kill depends of opponent's HP). But my favorite trick is to dodge and run to my weapon like a madman. My opponents think that im a complete idiot and simply starts their attack to hit my back, but suddenly i turn back and do a kick right to opponents windup :D almost nobody reacts to this :D actions after a kick depends of HP of enemy: i make a fist attack with feint if HP is low to finish him, or simply grab my dropped weapon without any problems while my enemy is under recovery after a kick.
8)Dodging an opponent combo attack after miss - super strong trick in stamina-war, aspecially against guys with heavy weapons like Evening star with huge stamina loses in miss.
9)Side-Dodge good against comitted straight overheads (as it said on video by author), and an awesome stuff if u have a fast\medium-speed weapon and able to mind-read a horizontal drag from opponent at close or medium distance: start attack and do a side-Dodge away from opponets weapon. It is a free hit for u cuz he will miss and will not be able to do a FtP cuz you will hit him while his weapon still in the end of release phase when doing a FtP is impossible. Doing this trick boosting your morale and lowering opponents morale cuz he think "omg he reads me like an open book and do whatever he wants" :D but this is hard to execute trick, definately not for beginers.
This trick also can be executed without Dodge. Simply chamber with a side-step away of weapon, but in this case it costs 15 stamina (Dodge costs 10) and after a chamber your opponent CAN BLOCK or CHAMBER so it is not a free hit cuz u not forcing him to miss.
10)One of the most simple and scary trick with this perk: dodge enemys swing simultaniously with starting windup of your gamble attack, then just close the distance right after dodge, (timing - end of your windup window) forcing enemy to be scared of your windup forcing him to make a combo-FtP, but you do not execute your windupped attack, you do a morph or feint attack. Even very good players in this situation do a panic-block with FtP and catch a hit with morph or feint-attack. Very rarely you can meet a player who can execute proper 2-button combo FtP, but even sucha players can be tricked if i do a godly late morph right in last milisecond of windup.
11)spamming back-dodge is a viable tactic when u do 100 damage to a guy with Flesh Wound and do not want to give him any chance to hit u (when u at low HP, potential oneshot) cuz turning back and trying to run away will activate Chase-mechanic to your enemy, so he can easily reach you and finish off before time on Flesh Wound is over.
12)i have huge amount of duels with Dodge uses count = 0. Yeap, often you simply dont need it or there are no any proper right positions to worth use of it.
So...
definately not an imba, definately can be replaced in 70% of cases with regular non-perk footwork\camera dodge, but still is viable in many cases and needed to be trained A LOT with to be worth, and have a huge surprise potential even at high lvl duels if trained well. It definately needs to be cheaper to come in meta.
ps
sorry for my English, its not my native
UPD 03.05.2022
after patch (slowing miss-combo's speed, losing initiative after miss to allow to punish for missing) dodge can be utilized in one more way: often when u try to punish your opponent for missing u cant do it cuz your weapon
eaction is slow and opponent do a proper combo accel after miss and so still cant be punished. If that accel is a horizontal swing - u can use a side-step dodge(away from enemy's blade of course) to win some time for your punishment to hit an enemy. This stuff helps me in a shitton of times is sucha cases when my opponent try to gamble with accel after miss in combo
Your English is still pretty good :)
Did you actually write an essay on dodge 0v0??!!!
It's a nice essay for an undergraduate of dodge but I give it only a C+ at best...
@@ravenousq yes
@@ravenousq GTFO he covered literally EVERYTHING there is to know about dodge, all of it, ups and downs, ALL. When was the last time u delivered something of that completeness to humanity?
It's an A++ essay! Really well presented and interesting info. I feel like this should be in a wiki or something 😄
(Altho it works well in these comments because it complements the video very well.)
Whenever i fight somebody with dodge, I almost always just end up out-stamming them. I've come to see it as little more than a free kill.
get em Axel C. you are so strong!
I haven’t played the game yet, but why does this look extremely downgraded compared to every old video I’ve seen from the game??
@@johnp.smithasimpleman7281 Probably because he's competitive and plays on the lowest settings. idk
@@Corzappy That makes sense thanks
Same dude I just spam them down till I knock their weapon out of their hand and it’s gg after
Good content, man, I appreciate the effort you put into these
For some reason nobody talks about the fact that you can use dodge to SHORTEN distance.
When Im using dodge, its not good as retreat-counter, only to retreat when you messed up.
However, side dodges are really cool as surprise attack, since you can decrease distance very quick to land a hit. It also can be used to change where hit will land. Say you're standing close, hit is landing on chest, but while doing so you side dodge around your opponent to land hit on back or back of the head.
It doesn't work often, but that's where I find dodge very useful
Yeah but, how viable is the 1411?
Well for one it can't be parried by filthy casuls. . . . . . or anyone for that matter. Sounds pretty damn viable to me.
I want to correct with the punishing part: Simply dodging a attack is already a punish for your enemy. The miss stamina drain is usually more than 10, so you go out at a plus.
I like to use dodge against mauls, ES or in general blunt weapons that dont have a big range (like polehammer). You are better off playing (nearly) naked against those anyway and if they dont miss then they will often outstam you, so using dodge is a good way to win the stam battle (In case no one gets a hit, or a kick or such).
I use it with zwei.
@V
Using dodge instead of running away is safer and less of a gamble, since you can still see your enemy and you can start an counterattack, which is harder to do when running away (The other person can just run away as welll)
I just use zwei because I am a zwei main and really like it. Bardiche is a better option as you said
Dodge is quite strong against things like the mace too which can be a punishing weapon otherwise. Maybe they should make it cost 12 stam to dodge, or maybe the short dodge range is enough, but it feels hard to counter without just switching weapons at times when it's a competent dodge player that doesn't just spam the dodge.
What is your rank?
90% times i beat a dodger is because he gets out of STA.
But maybe im only a noob and it dont happens in high ranks xd
@@unapolla4543 It's because they overuse it
@@unapolla4543 Im low diamond, but dont play tooo often (because of the long ass queues). Ive never seens someone use dodge in ranked (But I am also maining zwei, dodge is pretty bad against zwei) and neither have I seen dodge too much in duel servers. Idk what weapon you use, but dodge is only smart to use in only very vew expectations. Its OP vs mauls tho
As a n00b, I used a little, but for one good reason: dodging cavalry!
That's IMHO the best use of it, but it's too expensive for such niche applications.
I mostly play normal with the dodge perk equipped and when I am about to get hit I use it as an extra chance to avoid an attack. Pretty useful sometimes.
front line, short spear + 2 med bags + dodge. just do hit and run and support your team. its a really nice change of pace for me
I only use the dodge perk with light armor builds. It's helped me get out of sticky situations. Like when a group of 2-5 are quickly trying to surround me, I keep dodging back, and parrying until my teammates arrive. I don't think it's good for dueling tho. I usually run out of stamina that way.
4:24 (to 4:57) Very good advice.
Originally (long time ago) coming from a Chivalry background (first one), I used to love Man at Arms but got frustrated with the limited weapons - eg short range weapons play style is all about hugging your opponent and getting in their face, so that's not suited for a weaker class/build that's entire purpose is being fast enough to get out of range.
So when Mordhau opened it up and said here you go you can have a Man at Arms (not literally, but fast, lightly/no armoured, dodge) with a Zweihander, Halberd, etc I thought wow this will be great!
I knew from the beginning it wasn't necessarily the most competitive, but I love the idea of it (in battles, not duals) because it's so fun nimbly darting around the battlefield and popping in and out of the chaos.
But it is more ineffective than I first imagined, and most pertinently I feel like it set me back months of learning / skill building, because you really do develop very bad habits. Even though you try to only use dodge rarely, when you know it's there it's difficult to fight that instinct, even if unintentionally you find your whole play style starts to revolve around it and you never learn how to fight properly.
My advice is if you're interested in Dodge, become a veteran at the game normally first (heavy armour, no dodge), and if you still fancy it then then reconsider again after.
A big mistake I see a lot of dodge people make (and even me too sometimes) is dodging too many times in a fight. Players can be eager to use it so they try to dodge every swing and drain their stamina. Just let them, then get in really close so their dodges are worthless and you'll out stamina them pretty easy.
eX. Knight Owl here from OCE Mordhau. Just letting it be known that I am the Worlds Greatest Dodge user.
SPQR Milf(flavour word) here. I spank Knight Owl with my dodge builds.
great video, suprised you dont have more subs, you deserve them
I think it’s useful in blob fights, if you’re opened up because of a missed swing or missed block, you can just dodge back and disappear quickly instead of getting massacred.
as someone who came from fighting games, I almost always use dodge and 2/2/1 because an extra movement option/mixup is far more integral and effective to my playstyle than being able to tank an extra hit with armor. using good footwork, and only dodging as a mixup or emergency option has led me to winning many high rank duels. in addition, an advanced movement option you can use is to quickly close the space with dodge and use it to aid an accel. here's how I do it-
1. look to the side and let go of W
2. press A or D (depending on which way you looked/where your enemy now is)
3. start an attack, which will look like a drag since you're facing away from them, and they'll prepare for this.
4. press space and dodge into them, causing your attack to land much earlier than anticipated since you are now far closer suddenly.
you can also do a less extreme version of this by using left and right dodges to suddenly turn an accel into a drag without moving your mouse and vice versa. I recommend using acrobat with this, as of any of these mix-ups happen to miss, it'll be a lot of stamina. however, against most players lower than diamond 3, it's had about a 90% success rate when I don't whiff entirely lol (I'm not that good and this movement is pretty precise). I also recommend learning good footwork first, as although dodge can be an excellent tool in the hands of a player that knows these things, it can also become a crutch that will hinder your progress and enforce bad habits.
I think having dodge in your loadout change the way you play completely. It's like playing a different game.
Once I used dodge with bllhook in a duel server and absolutely destroyed everyone. But in the next round, when people expect that i have dodge, it became mediocre. Also after that, i could not play anything else without dodge. I had that muscle memory to dodge and on most loadout, i would just jump to waste stam and took the hit anyway. Took me a week or so to lose that muscle memory.
Dodge is frowned upon because like the old shield (you can just hold parry), it change the game completely and newbies will not learn the core mechanics of the game.
I'd say if you wanna use dodge, go for it, it's a really good perk, easy to learn, easy to use. I find that you can accomplish the same distance management with just normal footwork by turning around and run. But that requires a lot of practice and training, and not everyone is sweaty
When I was beginning to play the game I would use light armor, dodge and an arming sword. It made people salty and it's no surprise, that was a build that was TOO easy to use. Basically at level 20 I still couldn't fight with double handed weapons and I was really bad at fights where I had heavy armor (so slow movement), no dodge perk or a slow weapon. Only at level ~40 was I able to fight and I still had a habit of doing only accels - since I was only using short, fast weapons up until that point.
DO NOT USE IT AS A BEGINNER
I know this is an old video but if you wanna get really cheeky, you can throw your weapons. Targe and 2 axes + dodge and as much armor as you can take is my go to in duels. I rarely try to use dodge to get in extra hits, and instead either just try to occasionally burn through an opponents stamina or land a throwing attack with one of my three weapons. I've been in diamond before and it was pretty common for me to get 1 or 2 kills in a ranked match with a thrown axe or shield. Plus when you're switching your weapons, dodge can give you extra time to get out the second axe. Really fun play style (for me not for them) and I can't tell you how much salt I've gotten from thrusting an axe into a guys head 6-7 times only to dodge away at the last second and turn him into a unicorn. You should do a video about throwing your weapons in ranked, I'd watch it.
Dodge in a spartin set up is good short spear shield and falchon, that's 2 throwables in duals to, sidestepping is key to move around there of side
Definitely useful for backing up and stabbing with a rapier always worked for me with my assassin build
I hate people like you 🤣
Dodge is extremely fun with buckler + bastard/arming sword especially if you know how to spin between attacks and blocks. it makes you look super agile and stylish
Thank you KingLouie111. Is there any chance you might visit perk-less dodging in the new tank/dwarf meta? As a dwarf and as a tank I noticed crouching doesn't help much on its own anymore. The best I've come up with is literally just shrugging at attacks.
great video as always, best mordhau videos out here keep it up my man
love your videos dude! make a spear/estoc guide? or maybe a rapier guide?
Nobody talking about that godly face?
I use 2-3-1 plus dodge, friendly, tenacious and Longsword. Great class.
Bastard sword is decent as well. But definitely best used as a secret maneuver unless you learn to use it consistently and not overly.
Just discovered best mordhau channel ever!
Back in the days i used doge + bastard sword and get to low dia within a week. It was absolutly ridicoulus...
Great guide, but why do you suggest those armor combinations instead of a 2/3/1? I think 2/3/1 is more viable because prevents oneshot from everything except maul. Pls explain I am very interested
You can't afford a Bardiche, Zwei or Halberd with 231 + dodge.
@@KingLouie111 And using poleaxe instead is viable? Or the weapon is too short?
A fun Frontline build is Rush/Dodge/Bloodlust/Tenacious 0/3/3 Shortsword. Just find a weapon and dominate
you missed the point that you can combo dodge and the stamina reduced for jump perk to benefit a shorter range builds and with proper footwork you can double dodge out of the enemies attack and side dodge back in for your own drag while only spending a fraction of the stamina
I found a way to attack using dodge. You can reposte and dodge sideways into your opponent at the same time for a extra beefy accel. It catches many people off guard
I live for your content, my friend. ALL HAIL THE KING!
It looks like your attacks aren't decided by the mouse direction (unless I'm just not seeing it). Do you use a mouse and keyboard or a controller? Cause I find certain attack patterns hard using a mouse due to looking around and my habits, I also don't see how to bind enough buttons for all attack options on a controller.
Do you use a mouse with lots of mouse buttons? Or what is your control scheme?
Yeah, I have a Logitech g502 and play with full binds.
My most recent video is about playing with a controller. You might wanna check that out if you are looking for a controller control scheme.
u can also accel an attack with a dodge in the direction of the attack
Him a Diamond 3 player in duel and I only play with full light armor and dodge. I have to say that dodge is a completely different play style and you have to be really good mechanically or your just gonna get one shot but it’s still my favorite perk so to all noob out there I’m sorry and good luck
Maybe if character will crounch while dodging it would be viable
It's a good perk to compliment a playstyle that's already there. If you get in a situation where dodge becomes useful, then I find it can win the fight almost right there, but it's almost never worth building around.
Is fighting in this game even worth it anymore?? I haven’t played the game and I was very excited watching a lot of old videos, but now it looks so bad for some reason. Not only people don’t take the game seriously anymore, but the graphics and physics look far worse and lifeless. What happened to this game?? I was so excited to play it
Made it to Gold 5 and suddenly encountered many dodge builds, I think everyone at end of gold are just bad enough that we don't know how to deal with it, allowing some players to find a niche of success.
Great upload!
"The main theory is to dodge the enemy swing."
... Kind of. Instead of actually trying to dodge attack, instead dodge immediately after a hit lands or after they block. Often that'll bait out a huge miss - if the enemy wants to avoid that they need to hold W.
Once they start constantly holding W, they lose all sense of footwork. Then you counter with your own footwork, feints, R, accels/drags etc.
In other words you give them a playstyle they expect then switch and everyone but the highest level can't keep up with that - it's all about making moves for your opponent to react to rather as opposed to what many dodgers do, which is wait for an enemy attack - always a bad plan.
Also for opponents that face hug and accel throw an attack combined with a side dodge and half the time their huge accel will miss and they'll completely lose you, exposing their backs. You can literally run circles around some players like this and gain a physical advantage - ie "Does this guy have enough mouse pad to track me?"
To be clear dodge IS high stamina. It 100% means you'll have to be careful managing Stam, you may not be able to throw out as many feints or you may just you know, not be able to miss.
Absolutely high risk but I just find the playstyle to be more fun.
Hey, unrelated to tactics but I’ve had massive amounts of packet loss for the past week. Making Mordhau completely unplayable, does anyone know a fix?
I think Dodge is fine. It’s only effective when enemy weapons are short.
It’s not as viable in duels though as it is on the battlefield. It really shines on the field because you have so much to distract your opponents, opportunities to get in sneaky hits, and Dodge to pull you out when you’ve been too brave and gone too deep.
A tiny distance can (read: might) make the difference.
My take on the dodge perk is that you can accomplish the same thing by turning around, looking down, and sprinting away with no stamina cost and that it's a poor substitute for learning footwork.
Youre forgetting something important about the dodge perk, its much more stamina efficient vs the opponent, a missed attack with most weapons will cost your opponent more stamina than it costs you to dodge. Sideways dodge is also more viable if your familiar with the turn caps. If you're good with dodge you will still be footworking allot as you will most likely be in light armour. Its also a cheap way to keep the initiative too, though I only recommend using the dodge when you know it will give you an advantage or if an opponent successfully feints u
The Zweihänder is B Tier in every category and it makes it an overall A Tier weapon for all uses
Pretty much the only time dodge is viable is when you have a freakishly long weapon like a spear or halberd or bardiche; or a niche as an archer. anything else and you can't punish well enough for it to be useful, and you can't keep distance from enemies.
Bit late to the party, but if you want to deal with horizontal slashes, I suggest learning to duck. Your enemy will lose a lot of stamina, and generally, the will to fight at all. :D
someone in the video implied that the executioner sword requires skill
It's definitely not overpowered, there's a simple counter, press sprint forward!
It really is that easy. Sprinting forward is just as fast as dodging backwards (or fast enough that it doesn't make any difference), so as a dodger you're entirely reliant on your opponent trying to keep their distance. You might be able to catch them off guard once because of that (which as you pointed out isn't that easy to punish anyway), but soon as they realise you're a dodger, they're not going to play for space or allow you that space either.
Considering the high points cost, it means dropping some significant armour which often makes you a 2 hit kill not a 3 hit kill. And it isn't worth that sacrifice. (Or going for a short weapon but like you say that doesn't work well.)
I guess if people think it's a problem, the devs could consider increasing the points cost to make you have to sacrifice more armour (and/or weapon points), but I'm not sure it needs it.
This guy is like the KRASHED of Mordhau.
Using dodge could be a start in learning how to dodge without it. Just to start like understand the physics. Idk maybe not.
Dodge is more of a meme mechanic like Peasant. It's fun but easily anticipated by competent players.
Bro 620.000? How many matches is that damn.
I use it on the Star Wars servers pretty good ngl
2:16 he deleted himself XD. although i feel him, just seeing someone dodge makes my blood boil lmao
thatsn what he gets for breaking his arms for cheese hits
Not a fan of it. Overall it's basically free wins if your opponent doesn't know how to counter aggressive play but it devolves fights into stam games and it's annoying if your opponent has it and you don't know because it's basically a free dodge because you generally don't fight vs. dodge as you would a normal, dodgeless player
what is the server for the dummy server?
open litemordhautestlevel
my billhook dodger rolls face
I don't use it. But dodge + a pole arm weapon is particularly interesting to come across. -DEAD
One of my main styles is light/no armor with dodge and a longsword. I also like scimitar if i want a faster blade.
Why take hits when you can just not be hit at all?
For me it really ruins the pacing of the game and forces me to slow down. i find it difficult to manage a really defensive dodge user in 3s especially. in larger team fights it doesnt seem to matter all that much. I really wish they'd remove it from the game. unpopular opinion, i know. It just feels like either everyone should have some form of this perk by default or no one should.
I think the issue is that it's more or less ripped from Chivalry's Man-At-Arms class and that causes balance issues for Mordhau. In that game it's locked to a specific class and as such is fine-tuned and integral for that playstyle. In Mordhau there aren't classes so everything need to be balanced in the context of it being paired with way more possibilities. In Chiv the MAA has only a handful of weapon options, but in Mordhau, the number of builds that can use the Dodge perk is way higher.
I think that it being hard to manage a defensive dodge player is exactly the point and makes you adjust your tactics, just like how you'd treat someone with light armour and a spear differently from someone with a maul and heavy armour.
he swings to the left
The Dutch Playstyle
I suppose it depends on how you use it. From my experience its mostly useless, simply because people can close the distance or that their weapons outreach you via lunge or wide sweeps.
@V I had no idea u could kick off riposte. Ty for the info :)
I only ever use dodge in modded horde servers.
why tf everybody in serious lobbies swing only from their right
Because most high level players play with binds and have horizontal strike from the right side on the left mouse key. It's not a good habit though.
@@KingLouie111 I guess that makes sense, thank you
Needs to come to box
Real men use only fists, like Kauss. More fisting content, please.
Oh obee doo, I want to dodge as far as you-hoo-hoo...
-_-
@@KingLouie111 eh? Eh? ...ok I'll see myself out :/
yeah, i'm in this video
I got this recommended
I have never been killed by the dodge perk ever in 1200H of playing this game since release. Dodge perk is only good in frontline for archer that want the world to hate them.
I dont agree.
There is this Guy koba playing doge in duels. I think he is elite 3 top 20. He makes it Work
@@andreresdalbak3293 This guy is good AND play dodge perk. He could play without it with no problem.
I think doge is better with the rapier
Its good in 1vX
ask koba if its viable
Are you german?
I despise anyone who uses the dodge perk
It's a trash perk that really costs too much and pretty much only works as a surprise tactic.
I haven’t played the game yet, but why does this look extremely downgraded compared to every old video I’ve seen from the game??
Mordhau has some pretty good optimization capabilities, allowing players to either play with low or high graphics settings. He is just playing with lower settings.
@@Rexxy06 Ooohh ok I thought they downgraded it or something lol. I forgot for a second it was a pc game cause I’m used to console :P. Thanks for the reply
hey I want your attention. No Dodge. Thats all
it's definitely not OP
i wouldnt say dodge is op, but fuck helling its the most annoying thing in a game i have seen in a while
This is literally the only perk that makes me good at the game.
same
that is a total oxymoron
If you use dodge i hate you.
get a work
just don't use it on duel servers, use some actual skill
Dodge is cancer, there I said it 😂