I agree with everything that you just addressed in regards to Massive X. Keep in mind I saw a preview of Massive X way back in October of last year. What was shown off was a completely different synth. This older version of Massive X could import original Massive presets. This version that was being previewed then also incorporated the original Massive engine in a drop down menu (similar to what Diva offers in in terms of swappable Osc's, Filters, Envelopes, etc…) where the oscillator section is located. That version build was a bit darker (creamier) in appearance and actually had working animations for the envelopes and various other parameters. The drop down engine was called "Legacy 3 OSC" or "Legacy Triple OSC" this was a self-contained Osc section with everything from the original. Here is the article of this version build (notice the Scream filter in the lower right oscillator corner). I think there were internal problems at NI that ruined the initial vision of this synth. I think the people who were working on this wanted to basically make Massive 2 (better name btw), but were forced by the higher ups at corporate to scrap the idea and make it compete with regular Massive instead. Here is a link to that article with an included sound demo using the older version: soundquest.jp/article/plugin/massive-x-analysis/
The "older version" "demo" vidéo was a joke made by Plugmon as you can read this in the video description : "***Important Note*** This is a ⚠️JOKE VIDEO⚠️. This is actually U-HE BAZILLE impersonating Massive X with the power of u-he's custom theme system. Having seen the official trailer video, I replicated the whole GUI with Affinity Designer. Cutoff & Resonance are the only working knobs and the others are just static images."
It's so funny seeing people get mad at your review! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Honestly I was very disappointed by this plugin, even after spending days making sure I understood the plugin I still think it's awful. I think they were developing a different plugin and then decided to call is Massive X for popularity sake? If this wasn't called "Massive" X then I think there would not be so many issues with it! If they called it "Modular X" or something I think we wouldn't care too much. There is just so much nonsense in this plugin, visual adsr without feedback? Why have the graphics at all. Gorilla? What does that mean? I also think that a product shouldn't be released until it has at least a basic manual (it's not fair for beginners!) and be in a completely usable state, yes updates will come but it should launch in a better state than this. I can see that they heavily relied on sponsoring TH-camrs to promote this in the first days of the launch, and I'm so glad I didn't take the money for this one! Also, the GUI is not really an opinion here - it's objectively terrible!
I know Ave McCree jokingly said that Massive X was delayed when the new version of Serum came out and had the option on Splice to be used as a Rent to Own add-on. Serum is fucking amazing from what I hear, so I think that's what caused the 5 month delay of Massive X. If it were put out back in February when it was originally planned, they would have been laughed at by most Producers who make YT content. It would have been a bit embarrassing. Massive X vs. Serum videos would have been a very popular trend.
About the automation issue, It should work if you do it manually. For instance click the drop down settings window of the plugin and browse plugin parameters, there you will find all listed knobs of the plugin. You should be alble to work every knob. If not, go to windows registry, current user/software/imege-line/fruty wrapper/vst2/massive x, double click on the last key and set it's value from 0 to 1. Now fl wrapper will detect anything moving in the plugin also the sustain freeze issue will be gone.
in few months from now, all the kids going to be using this, loads of potential, I agree it was a rushed release, but definitely DONT UNINSTALL. Made some crafty good sounding basses with massive x already.. going to get better and better.
Guys I'm not saying this isn't a capable synthesiser, but these are straight up opinions vs Massive, so fanboys who never used original Massive can't understand
There are a lot of people bashing on this synth that have spent very little time with it. I have a long wish list of things that I hope they update and agree with some criticisms, but I've worked with it enough to really enjoy it and take advantage of all of the new things that it does, i.e. all of the new forms of modulation, effects, routing, scale and chord mode, etc. The UI is not pretty but to me no uglier than Ableton, which i use hours daily. I appreciate you at least giving it a detailed review, even if it is not your taste in the end. But I really suggest you and others to give it time, or another go after an update.
Laughs for the uninstall screen. :) I never used Massive but I have Reaktor, and X has gone in the esoteric direction. The master volume control is looking the same as in Reaktor. Perhaps they wanted to steal the limelight from Phase Plant, but in comparison I hear a lot of "Wow!" for PP and a lot of complaints about Massive X. A series of not so good decisions led up to this launch I think.
It's an honest review to me, much the interface is certainly meh but also usable, my big issue with massive x is that it's signature is very harsh and digital, with other synths i can make cool sounds in minutes, in massive x you turn a knob and it turns into an impossible to describe screaming mess, it's like all the features are there to destroy a good sounding waveform, also, when do we get a 3D preview of wavetables !!! Worth noting that NI addressed some of the issues here, and it's now better, like the envelope visual feedback.
I don’t get why people disliked this video, everything he mentioned makes sense. I downloaded its demo a few days ago curious to see if they have addressed these stupid issues. 2 years later and it still sucks it’s unbelievable! And buttons still have gotten weight when you want to rotate them btw. Its still there as well
If you wanna go and try it just go on doing so; but as much I can remember Issues are still there the last time I tried it. You still can’t import wavetables as well; it’s all those predefined ones on it. I went with Spire and old Massive to master sound design skill. after that I’ll go with PhasePlant it’s a visual modular synth and open ended and not limited like other mainstream synths. It’s manual was like 30 pages but it’s far far superior to Serum and Vital. I got it half price of Serum on days of it being on sale. definitely will be my go to after finishing the manual. Good luck😊
Very useful pro-con review, thanks for posting. I’ll be using both of them, but for us Logic users automation is a non-issue because the current version (Logic 10.4.5) can’t record MIDI automation from NI controllers anyway...
You're right! Those guys at NI seem to forgot how to design a usable and ergonomic ui.. And who the hell has the time to dive into a piece of software instrument of that complexity anyway?
Thanks for the honest review. I've been on the fence with my purchase. I think I'll hold off until they update it past v1. It feels rushed and very odd design choices. Looking forward to your update vid once the nonexistent manual drops.
Sound is so rich that you actually don't need 3-4 osc filters are fantastic and they will add another layer and same priciple is with all other fx, performer offering best modulations patterns.
Sounds like its not for you, at this time. As for aesthetics, that is a personal opinion. It is fine to me. Some of the features you are lamenting are shortcomings that I suspect a patch will easily resolve, such as live envelope displays and wavetable import. Other features, such as the performer modulators, may simply need some learning to master and see their potential. The modular routing is by far the reason I would want this synth, even now with its shortcomings. Importing old Massive patches is on my wishlist for sure, even if it is not able to exactly map to the new synth and requires some tweaking after the import.
The UI is terrible. Theres no contrast, just mostly white. Tiny knobs really stink. And your right - having envelops as static images is so stupid. Thanks for the honest review!
I find it easier to get creative in massive x than pigments by arturia. I used to have a pirated version of massive back in the day. Its was pretty sweet. But I'm more dissapointed by pigments. Mainly because of the of workflow, massive x is simpler.
Also I noticed that Massive X only has one filter where Massive has 2, i was somewhat disappointed about that. I would happily sacrifice an LFO to add a 2nd filter I have to disagree on the sequencer though. I feel like the sequencer in Massive X is way better than Massive. It is a bit harder to use but only because of its complexity, and that complexity makes it a much more powerful sequencer.
@@shamshirsound It just released. It will have bugs they will fix it. I remember the first massive and it had bugs it took about 3 years for it to become what everyone liked because of user feedback. Ijs
I see your point but Massive X was built from the ground up. From what I'm seeing in your video I seems like you wanted Native Instruments to do something similar to what U-HE did with Hive 2 I think that's cool but that would of been easier for them to just add stuff to it, charge us $50 and call it Massive 2.0 Again I would of been ok with that but personally I'm applauding them for making us a whole new synth. I also dont believe that its finished and I'm pretty sure updates and patches are coming for it, however we are also going to have to adjust and learn new things this is how we move forward with music production and to not assume that massive X is made to replace the original synth. I think that's the point of Massive X.
We have to remember that this is version 1.0, and as with most software these days, it's rushed out of the door before it's ready. Imagine Massive X after a few patches? I think it'll be a very decent synth. At least we have it now, and we can play with it ;)
@@shamshirsound Daw integration was a big problem. This guy nailed it pretty good: www.gearslutz.com/board/the-moan-zone/1141460-maschine-daw-integration-dont-buy-ni-maschine-before-reading.html
All the people who disagree with him probably didn’t use the original Massive often because it doesn’t take much to see that it is far superior to Massive X.
hahahaha I don’t regret not doing the update for komplete… btw I’m loosing my faith on computers. I’m going standalone now! computer is only for mastering in Cubase! :)
I barely use massive. My main synth is sylenth, and Spire. Since I make that hard slamming festival stuff, massive isn’t my synth. So I can’t speak on this
joeyxl3456 I’d say use it if you like. Just like me, I appreciate watching this video on other producer’s prospective and learned some things but I will still use it because it still sounds good for what I need it for. Everyone is different with certain needs
Massive X will have amazing musicly sound even after hard processing where with vital and serum you can quickly destroy sound totally, in Massive X something different is happening. Sound is so rich that you will start ask questions about more osc but why if it can be simple and rich like you used two Serum to achieve rich sound but Massive X simple and don't punish you if you not sure what you need to do instead you can play like child and result can be excellent. Remember that Art is in you and using specific software/hardware doesn't garante great Art, every Art is looking for something new. Bubbles are crazy because you can make anything without worrying about destroying sound musicly. Updates are things we all used to it. 2021. Massive X is in my opinion best sounding sinth still that doesn't mean you have to use it because Art is in you no matter what DAW you use 😉
Maybe you should compare Massive X to the first version of Massive or whatever ithers instead of their final versions. Get it? It's like comparing the Now you now to the 5 year old you.
Man ...did you realize that FL Studio that you are using in this video, is way uglier than Massive X?..Plus FL has too many annoying popup windows and modalities? As they say - those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. LoL
I agree with everything that you just addressed in regards to Massive X. Keep in mind I saw a preview of Massive X way back in October of last year. What was shown off was a completely different synth. This older version of Massive X could import original Massive presets. This version that was being previewed then also incorporated the original Massive engine in a drop down menu (similar to what Diva offers in in terms of swappable Osc's, Filters, Envelopes, etc…) where the oscillator section is located. That version build was a bit darker (creamier) in appearance and actually had working animations for the envelopes and various other parameters. The drop down engine was called "Legacy 3 OSC" or "Legacy Triple OSC" this was a self-contained Osc section with everything from the original. Here is the article of this version build (notice the Scream filter in the lower right oscillator corner). I think there were internal problems at NI that ruined the initial vision of this synth. I think the people who were working on this wanted to basically make Massive 2 (better name btw), but were forced by the higher ups at corporate to scrap the idea and make it compete with regular Massive instead.
Here is a link to that article with an included sound demo using the older version: soundquest.jp/article/plugin/massive-x-analysis/
So it is massive 10
@@Chitownzson When salesmen dictate engineering and design, you know you've fucked up.
The "older version" "demo" vidéo was a joke made by Plugmon as you can read this in the video description :
"***Important Note***
This is a ⚠️JOKE VIDEO⚠️. This is actually U-HE BAZILLE impersonating Massive X with the power of u-he's custom theme system.
Having seen the official trailer video, I replicated the whole GUI with Affinity Designer. Cutoff & Resonance are the only working knobs and the others are just static images."
th-cam.com/video/10hkW7-z8Vw/w-d-xo.html
Julien_Unison_666 yeah I saw the video and who made it. I feel stupid but oh well. I admit I made a mistake without fully researching
It's so funny seeing people get mad at your review! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Honestly I was very disappointed by this plugin, even after spending days making sure I understood the plugin I still think it's awful. I think they were developing a different plugin and then decided to call is Massive X for popularity sake? If this wasn't called "Massive" X then I think there would not be so many issues with it! If they called it "Modular X" or something I think we wouldn't care too much. There is just so much nonsense in this plugin, visual adsr without feedback? Why have the graphics at all. Gorilla? What does that mean? I also think that a product shouldn't be released until it has at least a basic manual (it's not fair for beginners!) and be in a completely usable state, yes updates will come but it should launch in a better state than this. I can see that they heavily relied on sponsoring TH-camrs to promote this in the first days of the launch, and I'm so glad I didn't take the money for this one! Also, the GUI is not really an opinion here - it's objectively terrible!
Love your videos bro, finally someone with some common sense
I really hope that someday the true story of what the heck happened at NI in Regards to massive X is released. I bet it's extremely interesting.
I know Ave McCree jokingly said that Massive X was delayed when the new version of Serum came out and had the option on Splice to be used as a Rent to Own add-on. Serum is fucking amazing from what I hear, so I think that's what caused the 5 month delay of Massive X. If it were put out back in February when it was originally planned, they would have been laughed at by most Producers who make YT content. It would have been a bit embarrassing. Massive X vs. Serum videos would have been a very popular trend.
thank u dude, we should probably wait for 1-2 updates before actually get down to use it.. :)
About the automation issue, It should work if you do it manually. For instance click the drop down settings window of the plugin and browse plugin parameters, there you will find all listed knobs of the plugin. You should be alble to work every knob. If not, go to windows registry, current user/software/imege-line/fruty wrapper/vst2/massive x, double click on the last key and set it's value from 0 to 1. Now fl wrapper will detect anything moving in the plugin also the sustain freeze issue will be gone.
Idk man, all that work, are you kidding me?
in few months from now, all the kids going to be using this, loads of potential, I agree it was a rushed release, but definitely DONT UNINSTALL. Made some crafty good sounding basses with massive x already.. going to get better and better.
Guys I'm not saying this isn't a capable synthesiser, but these are straight up opinions vs Massive, so fanboys who never used original Massive can't understand
There are a lot of people bashing on this synth that have spent very little time with it. I have a long wish list of things that I hope they update and agree with some criticisms, but I've worked with it enough to really enjoy it and take advantage of all of the new things that it does, i.e. all of the new forms of modulation, effects, routing, scale and chord mode, etc. The UI is not pretty but to me no uglier than Ableton, which i use hours daily. I appreciate you at least giving it a detailed review, even if it is not your taste in the end. But I really suggest you and others to give it time, or another go after an update.
Laughs for the uninstall screen. :) I never used Massive but I have Reaktor, and X has gone in the esoteric direction. The master volume control is looking the same as in Reaktor. Perhaps they wanted to steal the limelight from Phase Plant, but in comparison I hear a lot of "Wow!" for PP and a lot of complaints about Massive X. A series of not so good decisions led up to this launch I think.
Yes exactly bro
It is good but phaseplant is much better wavetable synth, maybe better than serum? 🤔
It's an honest review to me, much the interface is certainly meh but also usable, my big issue with massive x is that it's signature is very harsh and digital, with other synths i can make cool sounds in minutes, in massive x you turn a knob and it turns into an impossible to describe screaming mess, it's like all the features are there to destroy a good sounding waveform, also, when do we get a 3D preview of wavetables !!!
Worth noting that NI addressed some of the issues here, and it's now better, like the envelope visual feedback.
I don’t get why people disliked this video, everything he mentioned makes sense. I downloaded its demo a few days ago curious to see if they have addressed these stupid issues. 2 years later and it still sucks it’s unbelievable! And buttons still have gotten weight when you want to rotate them btw. Its still there as well
snowflake nation, should i review this again 2023? lol
If you wanna go and try it just go on doing so; but as much I can remember Issues are still there the last time I tried it. You still can’t import wavetables as well; it’s all those predefined ones on it. I went with Spire and old Massive to master sound design skill. after that I’ll go with PhasePlant it’s a visual modular synth and open ended and not limited like other mainstream synths. It’s manual was like 30 pages but it’s far far superior to Serum and Vital. I got it half price of Serum on days of it being on sale. definitely will be my go to after finishing the manual. Good luck😊
I forgot to mention, Kilohearts company that created PhasePlant also offers Life Time Free Updates like what Image-line does with FL Studio
Very useful pro-con review, thanks for posting. I’ll be using both of them, but for us Logic users automation is a non-issue because the current version (Logic 10.4.5) can’t record MIDI automation from NI controllers anyway...
You're right! Those guys at NI seem to forgot how to design a usable and ergonomic ui.. And who the hell has the time to dive into a piece of software instrument of that complexity anyway?
Thanks for the honest review. I've been on the fence with my purchase. I think I'll hold off until they update it past v1.
It feels rushed and very odd design choices.
Looking forward to your update vid once the nonexistent manual drops.
yes, i recommend holding off
2022, has there been any updates and fixes for any of these issues since it launched?
I want to try this again 2023
Some people thought that X was rushed. I'm sure much of what you addressed will be in future firmware updates.
Sound is so rich that you actually don't need 3-4 osc filters are fantastic and they will add another layer and same priciple is with all other fx, performer offering best modulations patterns.
@@igorbeuk6298 After messing around with it a year later, I kind of like it.
Sounds like its not for you, at this time. As for aesthetics, that is a personal opinion. It is fine to me. Some of the features you are lamenting are shortcomings that I suspect a patch will easily resolve, such as live envelope displays and wavetable import. Other features, such as the performer modulators, may simply need some learning to master and see their potential. The modular routing is by far the reason I would want this synth, even now with its shortcomings. Importing old Massive patches is on my wishlist for sure, even if it is not able to exactly map to the new synth and requires some tweaking after the import.
I agree on every point. ^^
The UI is terrible. Theres no contrast, just mostly white. Tiny knobs really stink. And your right - having envelops as static images is so stupid. Thanks for the honest review!
Massive X needs some work in the UI department, but it's a great sounding synth with incredible potential for sound design.
I find it easier to get creative in massive x than pigments by arturia. I used to have a pirated version of massive back in the day. Its was pretty sweet. But I'm more dissapointed by pigments. Mainly because of the of workflow, massive x is simpler.
I will like to return to this plugin after so long, I'm sure it's much better now
honestly, i like the gui, but the fact that you couldn't custom wavetable and the asdr envelopes being static killed me 😂
hopefully they fixed these things over the years
Also I noticed that Massive X only has one filter where Massive has 2, i was somewhat disappointed about that. I would happily sacrifice an LFO to add a 2nd filter
I have to disagree on the sequencer though. I feel like the sequencer in Massive X is way better than Massive. It is a bit harder to use but only because of its complexity, and that complexity makes it a much more powerful sequencer.
Just change the filter to SVF Seriell or SVF Parallel. You than have two filters
Really nice job and great choices on everything.
The synth is amazing. This is a first version. Just wait
Yall just used to the original massive. It is kool to adjust but I do understand. I still use older plugins because i have mastered them.
og massive will always be og, and i will return to x when it's updated and these problems are resolved!
@@shamshirsound It just released. It will have bugs they will fix it. I remember the first massive and it had bugs it took about 3 years for it to become what everyone liked because of user feedback. Ijs
If you dont know how to use Massive performers that is not a N.I problem that's a you problem.
You have to remember you're working in this synth, so if it looks and operates slowly, then that's why so many people not just me are upset
I see your point but Massive X was built from the ground up. From what I'm seeing in your video I seems like you wanted Native Instruments to do something similar to what U-HE did with Hive 2 I think that's cool but that would of been easier for them to just add stuff to it, charge us $50 and call it Massive 2.0 Again I would of been ok with that but personally I'm applauding them for making us a whole new synth. I also dont believe that its finished and I'm pretty sure updates and patches are coming for it, however we are also going to have to adjust and learn new things this is how we move forward with music production and to not assume that massive X is made to replace the original synth. I think that's the point of Massive X.
We have to remember that this is version 1.0, and as with most software these days, it's rushed out of the door before it's ready. Imagine Massive X after a few patches? I think it'll be a very decent synth. At least we have it now, and we can play with it ;)
I hope so bro! Let's just hope we don't see an EA / Bethesda trend! remember fallout 76?
@@shamshirsound A synth is way more long term than most games. Their Devs will be working their socks off.
I would never consider another NI product after suffering through Machine 2.0. It left scars.
You know what's funny, I checked out Maschine sample packs but I never gravitated to the hardware, what was that like?
@@shamshirsound Daw integration was a big problem. This guy nailed it pretty good:
www.gearslutz.com/board/the-moan-zone/1141460-maschine-daw-integration-dont-buy-ni-maschine-before-reading.html
All the people who disagree with him probably didn’t use the original Massive often because it doesn’t take much to see that it is far superior to Massive X.
I like the GUi for looks but for usage reminds me of Harmor.
Hmm, haven't used harmor forever, but harmor is darker, try it again! Harmor was used in my track "Hardcore Motherfucker" for many basslines
hahahaha
I don’t regret not doing the update for komplete… btw I’m loosing my faith on computers. I’m going standalone now! computer is only for mastering in Cubase! :)
thats for sureeeee Gorilla knob > Master volume knob
Cons start at 13:33
i'll go with serum...
you were the chosen one...lol
I barely use massive. My main synth is sylenth, and Spire. Since I make that hard slamming festival stuff, massive isn’t my synth. So I can’t speak on this
Excuse me?. What about if I love the SOUND, and think the synth is awesome!. What then.
Absolutely, I'm sure sound will be dope, but just sharing thoughts on everything, especially since it is a "successor" / "sequel"
That's great bro
@@shamshirsound cool bro, all good. but this synth makes sounds like no other synth I've heard.
joeyxl3456 I’d say use it if you like. Just like me, I appreciate watching this video on other producer’s prospective and learned some things but I will still use it because it still sounds good for what I need it for. Everyone is different with certain needs
yea was disappointed too. so many things that wrong
I don't follow the Starbucks comment.
good beat keep it up 😂
Massive X will have amazing musicly sound even after hard processing where with vital and serum you can quickly destroy sound totally, in Massive X something different is happening. Sound is so rich that you will start ask questions about more osc but why if it can be simple and rich like you used two Serum to achieve rich sound but Massive X simple and don't punish you if you not sure what you need to do instead you can play like child and result can be excellent. Remember that Art is in you and using specific software/hardware doesn't garante great Art, every Art is looking for something new. Bubbles are crazy because you can make anything without worrying about destroying sound musicly. Updates are things we all used to it. 2021. Massive X is in my opinion best sounding sinth still that doesn't mean you have to use it because Art is in you no matter what DAW you use 😉
I think this is a money grab.... Unlike Hard synth, You could have added this as an update.....
Maybe you should compare Massive X to the first version of Massive or whatever ithers instead of their final versions. Get it?
It's like comparing the Now you now to the 5 year old you.
Good point, I should find an original 1.0 massive
Shamshir Sound it looks like Massive 1.55 was release in 2018 and the v1.0 was released in 2008. 10 years from the first version to the last.
I love the sound engine tho
I agree, I just hope the interface improves, the bugs especially
😂
me personally I think massive was so ugly. massive x looks way nicer.
Same honestly. Massive looks a little... 2008-ish
dammm...
Man ...did you realize that FL Studio that you are using in this video, is way uglier than Massive X?..Plus FL has too many annoying popup windows and modalities? As they say - those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. LoL
what daw do you use
@@shamshirsound I use Logic, Ableton, and Digital Performer